The Housing Bubble

I will post tax/assessment data for the new developments near me that have sold out. Sadly, they do get the asking price. And they’ve raised them 20-40k over the past 6 months, since the “recovery” meme took hold.

I’ll post when I have time to run searches and show you entire blocks of this “garage townhouse” crap that has sold. Believe me, I’m as perplexed as you about people paying this much to get this little.

Building new inventory and pricing at levels where it doesn’t sell isn’t “perplexing”.

Build, build and build some more. More inventory. No sales.

Pimp.. please get a hold of yourself here.. i know cognitive dissonance can be a b i tch to handle but take a deep breath and accept the facts… houses are selling at ungodly inflated prices, you may not like it and stick your fingers in your ears but the fact remains what it is..

Housing demand is at 17 year lows and falling. Why? Because as you mentioned, prices are grossly inflated…. and falling…. even in Gotham they’re falling.

Prices are not falling in CA near the coast in the good towns. Last yr they went up over 20% for the low end homes.

Prices are falling in $/sq ft regardless of location.

I try and explain this to friends who are looking at buying. They borrow as much as possible, but conveniently forget that like a lot of new home owners, the spending is just getting started. Suddenly the old furniture, tv, place settings, etc just don’t cut it anymore.

Welcome to any city on planet Earth, go 10 blocks in some direction and you can go from the nicest neighborhood to a marginal area.

That’s nothing. In Rio you can go from 2 million dollar 1st-world apartment neighborhoods to the 3rd-world hillside slums in 5 blocks.

Don’t you get it! THEY’RE COMING FOR US! Black people in black helicopters with black boots. First they took our jobs, and now they’re sending robots to steal our medicine!

Wake up!

“In Rio you can go from 2 million dollar 1st-world apartment neighborhoods to the 3rd-world hillside slums in 5 blocks.”

Went to Costa Rica last fall. There you’ll find those extremes on the same block. Landscaped mansion, tin shack, another mansion, etc.

Same deal in Nipomo, CA. Mansion, meth lab, mansion, trailer, golf course, meth lab…

An I thought Phoenix was bad, here at least I have make some effort crossing a median before getting into the ‘bad’ part of town.

There is a creek separating East Palo Alto and Palo Alto.

My wife lived in EPA along the creek for a time. My wife’s apartment was shut down once due to a meth lab being found in the building.

If I threw a football across the creek, it would land in the backyard of houses that easily sell for $2MM+.

This is among the steepest gradient of rich-poor that I’ve ever seen.

There is a creek separating East Palo Alto and Palo Alto.

I’ve heard you guys talk about this before, but now that I’m here I’m even more confused. I thought that the cheap stuff was always supposed to be farther from the water?

“That’s nothing. In Rio you can go from 2 million dollar 1st-world apartment neighborhoods to the 3rd-world hillside slums in 5 blocks.”

Ha!

I see your 3rd-world hillside slum in 5 blocks, and I raise!

In South Florida, there are multi-million dollar waterfront homes in slums.

One block. Hell, sometimes the same block.

Florida wins again!

“I’ve heard you guys talk about this before, but now that I’m here I’m even more confused. I thought that the cheap stuff was always supposed to be farther from the water?”

There’s not much in the way of water flowing through the creek…it’s more of a drainage ditch.

In any event, my parents (who grew up on the peninsula) always thought of EPA as the east side of 101, and were somewhat surprised when they found out that the City limits of East Palo Alto were actually on the western side of 101.

There was a big brewhaha when University Circle (big office development/Four Seasons) at University and the 101 was built, and one of the first tenants printed their business cards with “Palo Alto”, NOT “East Palo Alto” on them. EPA has had an image problem for decades that they are trying to shake, and despite nice new buildings, people didn’t want to be associated with the city.

Come to think of it, international criminals laundering money into all-cash U.S. real estate investments probably care little about capital gains…

BTW, I don’t mean to imply that anyone should pay 80k for a car, I’m just pointing out that the people making Audis in SC on the assemblyline will never be able to afford a new Audi even if they put 100% of their income towards the payment. And that, to me, shows these McJobs for what they are.

Great deal for the carmakers - I give them kudos. They played the labor market game and won. Meanwhile, taxpayers lose because the teabillies making $20/hr in a BMW plant will pay zero federal income tax most likely. LOL.

I will never, ever buy this “the meek will inherit the earth” idea. Happily droning along so you can get run over by a steamroller and never have any real assets to your name or to leave a legacy to your children/community? That’s some bizarre stuff. I’d rather borrow a gun from goon and shoot myself in the temple.

You do realize that not everybody gets to be an astronaut when they grow up, do you?

You do realize that not everybody gets to be an astronaut when they grow up, do you?

When you’re a low-level lawyer with huge student debt, slaving away at a big firm with limited hope of making partner, you’ve got to keep telling yourself you’re smart and everyone else is dumb- for your own mental health.

Your Greek restaurants will fund your retirement (possibly in the federal pen for tax evasion).

I don’t have student debt. I’m not sure about the partner thing, but if you don’t make partner from here it means in-house at a client or else a cushy gov job where you can work a few yrs and then become a partner at a lower-ranked firm down the line.

My parents don’t directly know anything about taxes, they take advice from accountants/lawyers, they rely on advice but do nothing illegal. Moreover, if they start going after “small business” types, do you know how many diners/carryouts/pubs will go down? It’s not going to happen. Why do you assume these people would be liable on tax issues, they don’t prepare the taxes and they specifically hire lawyers and accountants who will avoid taxes *legally*. Yes, our tax system is a sham and all the “goodies” go to aggressive, well-capitalized businesses, both large and small. But of course, true “small businesses” usually don’t have the reserves or flexibility to make the appropriate adjustments, so the real benefits flow to small businesses that play ball like big business.

keep telling yourself you’re smart and everyone else is dumb- for your own mental health

I want to be Bill in Los Angeles when I grow up.

astronauts are loosers…its bill gates and steve jobs…they are the proper measure.

I think you guys are missing the big picture idea: These happy/content non-union workers building 80k cars are the kind of lazy people that the Mitt Romney types disdain. When you’re working for coolie wages, you are not going to be paying much (if any) taxes.

I’m not suggesting they *should* pay taxes on $15/hr income. I’m saying that we shouldn’t pretend that these are jobs that will actually help America balance its budget, pay for SS/MC, etc. These workers will be part of the 47%.

Moreover, Jess made it sound like these workers are going to be able to work these non-union jobs forever. Well, they better be, because on those wages you won’t be able to save much.

So, all hail SC (and the South, generally) where you can work til the day you die, making the “haves” wealthier while you yourself get the “benefit” of paying very low/no taxes (because you don’t make enough anyway). If this is America’s “future” I want to barf. Or borrow one of goon’s gunz.

where you can work til the day you die, making the “haves” wealthier

Says the man who is primarily a mafia goon enriching his family (Romney or Romney like) not via guns but via laws.

I think you guys are missing the big picture idea: These happy/content non-union workers building 80k cars are the kind of lazy people that the Mitt Romney types disdain. When you’re working for coolie wages, you are not going to be paying much (if any) taxes.”

The Chinese and Indians think exactly like you do and they won’t work cheap to make the 1% rich in America forever.

Mitt Romney types need to keep the work here for control of thier future wealth if nothing else.

Like Rome outsourcing it’s armies how did that work out ?

Says the man who is primarily a mafia goon enriching his family (Romney or Romney like) not via guns but via laws.
Oh please.

$15 hr at the BMW plant.

Google it.

Boeing is going the same route.

Do you really want aircraft made by people making $15 hr?

“I’m not suggesting they *should* pay taxes on $15/hr income.”

Why not?

How about 1%?

We need more people to care about how the government spends our money. The only way to do this is to have more people have a stake in it, no matter how small.

We need more people to care about how the government spends our money. The only way to do this is to have more people have a stake in it,

Poor people pay a higher share of their income in total taxes and fees than do the super rich.

Most everyone already has their “stake” but just not their steak anymore.

The main problem with making $15 is living like you are making $18.

When I grow up I want to be “Lost on Seneca Lake”.

Well if my rent is $400 a month $15hr is just fine

Do you really want aircraft made by people making $15 hr?

The main problem with making $15 is living like you are making $18.

Maybe….
but buying meat is hard to beat and having heat is pretty sweet.

The main problem with $15/hr is healthcare.

The main problem with $15/hr is healthcare.

I agree. From what I gather and read, Obamacare starting 2014 will make this problem much more manageable with subsidies for insurance.

Thoughts?

“Thoughts?”

Well, I’ll be 47 next year, haven’t had insurance since I was in my twenties. According to the calculator from the Kaiser Foundation, my “unsubsidized health insurance premium in 2014 adjusted for age” would be $6440 (537/month).

Next up, the “maximum % of income the person/family has to pay for the premium if eligible for a subsidy” in my case is 4.7%, translating to a yearly premium of $892 ($75/month). My yearly income is just under $20K. If you make 40,000, you would pay no more than 9.5% of your income. Needless to say, I’ll pay the $75/month.

I entered the data as a single policyholder, which does not reflect my wife’s income. She has an excellent Kaiser plan, but it would cost me $400/month to get on it. Not do-able. My question is, am I able to get the single policyholder subsidy if we file our taxes jointly. Looks like I have some research to do.

Here’s the calculator, if anyone’s interested:

http://healthreform.kff.org/subsidycalculator.aspx

“Poor people pay a higher share of their income in total taxes and fees than do the super rich.”

Really? Do you have a source for this assertion?

And don’t cherry pick one rich guy who had big capital loss carryforwards in one year cutting his tax bill in that year to nothing, or focusing entirely on people who made their money via capital gains (taxes which by the way have now gone up from 15% to 23.8%)

The last statistic I saw was that 87% of income tax receipts come from the top 10% of earners…this is among the highest, if not THE highest on record.

And don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying the tax code should not be progressive. I’m just saying that the low end should not be $0.

Really? Do you have a source for this assertion?

http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/29/irs-high-income-personal-finance-taxes_0129_wealthy_americans.html

Forbes: WASHINGTON, D.C.–The 400 highest-earning taxpayers in the U.S. reported a record $105 billion in total adjusted gross income in 2006, but they paid just $18 billion in tax, new Internal Revenue Service figures show. That works out to an average federal income tax bite of 17%–the lowest rate paid by the richest 400 during the 15-year period covered by the IRS statistics. The average federal tax bite on the top 400 was 30% in 1995 and 23% in 2002.

Here’s just the State Taxes:

Wealthiest Americans Pay Half the Effective Tax Rate That Poorest Pay in State and Local Taxes; Middle-Income Families Also Pay More

http://www.ctj.org/taxjusticedigest/archive/2013/01/wealthiest_americans_pay_half.php

Soaking the Poor, State by State
source: The Corporation for Enterprise Development

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/soaking-poor-state-state

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/21/poor-americans-state-local-taxes_n_1903993.html

Nearly every U.S. state taxes the poor more than the rich, according to a 2009 report by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. Overall, the poorest 20 percent of households paid an average 10.9 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes in 2007, while the top 1 percent on average paid just 5.2 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes, according to the study.

Total U.S. taxes are barely progressive, as shown in this table and chart from Citizens for Tax Justice. The bottom 99 percent pays a 27.5 percent total tax rate on average, while the top 1 percent pays an average 29 percent tax rate, according to 2011 data from Citizens for Tax Justice.

And the poor pay payroll taxes what 14% total which is lumped into the general fund so say the Repubs. So they are paying Fed taxes as well if the Repubs are correct.

Just because STATES generally have less progressive tax systems (sales taxes being the biggest culprit), doesn’t mean that the FEDERAL government should screw with the FEDERAL tax code to make up for it.

http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2012/04/who_pays_taxes_in_america.php#.UWT5A6sjqyo

The top 10%-20% pay approximately 4X the rate of the bottom 20%, even after including federal payroll taxes, etc.

Also, these factoryworkers in SC are part of the “47%”. You don’t really start paying federal income tax until household income goes above 50 or 60k (and even then, it is not much).

Meanwhile, it falls to people in blue states to fund the federal government. Which is OK because at least they’re not scraping by to begin with (although like most Americans, they spend too much, use too much credit, and don’t save enough). Still, better to start with a high income so at least you can devise a plan to save if you want to. Coolies slaving for BMW, “happy” or not, don’t have the option to save for a better life. What are they going to do, start saving change in a jar and study chemistry or computer science at night via correspondence course after working in the factory all day?

What are they going to do, start saving change in a jar and study chemistry or computer science at night via correspondence course

Well duh, ya bootstrapper! This is known as the “get off your duff and improve yourself and get a better job” strategy. Most recently effectively employed in Fall 2011 in Zucotti Park, NYC.

You miss the point entirely. Low wages should result in low prices of everything, including housing and health. Why does it matter how much you make if you can afford a decent life style even with your $10 an hour salary? Who’s preventing the low wages people live a decent life? It’s the government you voted for. Government is crazy about increasing the price of everything making it impossible for the little people to survive on salaries they earn.

Government had nothing to do with it.

It’s called voodoo (supply side) economics and it was championed by neocons along with “less government” (oversight).

Once again I will explain how it works:

You raise prices when times are good due to scarcity of product.

You raise prices when times are bad due to scarcity of profits (sales).

You only ever temporarily lower prices to drive traffic, but raise them as quickly as you can once you’ve established traffic (sales) This is classic bait and switch.

All the time you cut corners everywhere you can until you get caught, but keep enough corporate customers that you never have to worry about J6P customers or government penalties.

Why does it matter how much you make if you can afford a decent life style even with your $10 an hour salary? Who’s preventing the low wages people live a decent life? It’s the government you voted for.

correct.

Why does it matter how much you make if you can afford a decent life style even with your $10 an hour salary? Who’s preventing the low wages people live a decent life?

As part of its 2012 report on rent affordability, the National Low Income Housing Coalition released a chart that’s been floating around the Internet. It shows that there isn’t a single state in the country where it’s possible to work 40 hours per week at minimum wage and afford a two-bedroom apartment at Fair Market Rent. (source: http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/30/paying-rent-on-minimum-wage/)

It shows that there isn’t a single state in the country where it’s possible to work 40 hours per week at minimum wage and afford a two-bedroom apartment at Fair Market Rent.

good chance it would have been if government had kept its subsidizing, bailout nose out of the market. but the real point is that minimum wage raises unemployment. not everyone needs a 2brm apt. sometimes a 1brm or even studio will do. sometimes people just rent a room for a while.

and if a kid that lives at home wants a job, how high a wage does he need? your type says no job is better than one below your arbitrary minimum. kid wants to work for 6 an hour. too bad. the libs say you have to give him 9 or whatever it is now. so the kid gets no work experience or training because the liberal do-gooders know what’s best. pathetic.

and if a kid that lives at home wants a job, how high a wage does he need?

High enough to keep his Reagan-voting, laid off, 60 year old parents in generic aspirin, Old Crow and Ramen Romney Noodles.

High enough to keep his Reagan-voting, laid off, 60 year old parents in generic aspirin, Old Crow and Ramen Romney Noodles.

as always, the omniscient, wise rio knows what’s best for everyone. sorry kid, that ain’t enough money. no job for you. no training for you. no skills for you. the all-knowing rio knows what’s best. all follow him.

What about a studio apartment? One Bedroom?

That’s going to get dicey fast. In one way, the union has an upper hand because you can’t outsource healthcare the way you can outsource a factory. But in another way, well, what happens if the nurses go on strike? They picket on the sidewalk while patients inside die from lack of care? Who will get the blame? The nurses or the corps?

If that is your position then we do agree. It has been my position all along so I don’t know why you previously attacked me on immigration but it is good to agree.

” I basically want to skim off the best we can get from abroad and have a sensible policy, maybe a couple million immigrants per decade. With preference for people who have clean backgrounds and at least a basic education (which would suggest they can understand laws and find legit employment, probably learn English as well).”

you forgot…and vote democrat.

If you’re implying that blacks or hispanics have less potential to become educated workers, then I do disagree, the same things were said about Irish and Italians, who also had relative cultural poverty but who were assimilated over time. At a rate of 3-5 Mil legal immigrants/decade, that is a sustainable rate, at 1-2% of population. It should be spread around the world and prospective immigrants should pay the fees associated with running background checks and verifying identity. I have said I favor more balanced immigration - not primarily from central America or a handful of asian countries.

But what we really should do is have a secure border where we can at least hope to have an idea of who is here and some plan to make them citizens. The current plan favors big corporations, who can free-ride on cheap labor while passing externalities (criminality, unpaid taxes, ER costs) to taxpayers.

I do think we should have earned citizenship, possibly predicated on law-abiding and tax-paying status along with writing/writing basic English for people below, say, age 40. There should be a period for people to achieve this (8-10 yrs?) and, after that time, then I could see a push towards deportation.

you forgot…and vote democrat.
——————

I’m not a Democrat. I’d hope we’d gain political independents who want America to succeed and wouldn’t take either party very seriously.

Also Joe, while I agree with your numbers about 200,000 per year and your criteria, nothing in the proposed bill will achieve that number or criteria. If we pass what the Senate is talking about we will have chain migration of low IQ immigrants and there will be millions per year. Family reunification must be taken out of the bill and that will not happen.

Family reunification must be taken out of the bill and that will not happen.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

You are going to pluck out their best and the brightest but not their families?

Meanwhile, it falls to people in blue states to fund the federal government.

Once the money priting stops, so will end the blue states’ funding the federal government.

You are going to pluck out their best and the brightest but not their families?

If you are talking about their immediate families (wife, husband and children), no, they will come. But parents, bothers, sisters etc. and have the bill also apply to illegals many of whom are far from the best and the brightest, I do not want them to bring in their relatives.

But parents, bothers, sisters etc. and have the bill also apply to illegals many of whom are far from the best and the brightest, I do not want them to bring in their relatives.

You may not want to bring them but some of them would like to come and stay. Let’s say the Parents or Siblings like to come visit their little scientist in the states. After visiting some would say screw it I am staying…..It happens a lot as a matter of fact. Are you saying that we shouldn’t even give visitor’s visas to the parents or siblings?

Go on to the web and look up the average IQ for Italians and then the average IQ for Swedes and you will see that the difference is quite minor. Then compare the average IQ for a Somali. You are talking about apples and oranges. That said there are plenty of Africans that do have a high IQ and would be a welcome addition to this country. But we need to ensure that only the best and brightest do come to this country. PC is a religion and that is the problem with this country, religious zealots on both sides are running the political parties and hence the country.

PC is a religion

(But is smaller than the Religion of Racism)

But we need to ensure that only the best and brightest do come to this country.
Some of the “best and brightest” who think they are leading this country, we would be better without.

Ergo hoc, propter hoc.

Best and brightest does NOT necessarily guarantee higher standard of living.

Only specific polices do, i.e. reasonably regulated capitalism and investment in the citizens (health and education).

Best and brightest does NOT necessarily guarantee higher standard of living.

And math (as is success in life) is hard.

Like Math? Thank Your Motivation, Not IQ

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=like-math-thank-your-moti

People who were driven by their own interest improved their math skills the most. IQ or external factors such as parental pressure or grades didn’t create a lasting boost

“The growth in math achievement was predicted by motivation and learning strategies,” Murayama told LiveScience. “Given that IQ did not show this kind of effect, we think this is impressive.”

That study was done on 5th graders in Germany. Sorry, but I believe that almost anyone of any IQ can learn 5th grade math.

How did they distinguish between “motivation” and “parental pressure?” At that age they are almost the same thing.

Let’s see the results of a study of say, 17-year old Calc 2 students. I think you’ll find that IQ has more of an effect. That’s assuming that you can even do the study without selection bias, because the lower IQ’s don’t even make it that far in math.

Sorry, but I believe that almost anyone of any IQ can learn 5th grade math.

Anyone of almost any IQ can learn 5th grade math at the age they are while in the 5th grade?

I don’t understand.

Let’s see the results of a study of say, 17-year old Calc 2 students.

I slacked off the semester of Calc 2 in college and was looking at between a B and a D depending on the final.

I had a study group that included 2 of the best students in the class. I worked my tail off. For a week, I lived and breathed Calc 2. The first day of the group I was asking the dumbest questions. By the end of the week I was the go-to guy of the group. I took the final and got my B.

I’m sure I didn’t have the highest egghead IQ in the class of over 40 students but I scored the highest grade on the final in the class. I was motivated and it was the only period of my life that I LOVED math.

Years later I recounted that story to a math professor and he said. “That’s the way math works if you really work at it”.

I think that’s the way life works a lot of the time too.

“How did they distinguish between “motivation” and “parental pressure?” At that age they are almost the same thing.”

I have to disagree. I got no pressure from my parents. I never got rewards for grades or punishment. I always enjoyed learning and I always wanted to be the best student (something I think I never attained). Consequently, the grade was its own motivation since it measured my success as a student.

High inflation does not help poor people or working class people without hard assets whether they get money from a minimum wage job or from the dole. BTW, the days of the US being the reserve currency are very close to being done. This is just another tea leaf:

http://www.bullionstreet.com/news/china-buys-97106-tons-of-hong-kong-gold-in-february/4459

printing money would help the middle class only if it was used to create jobs and stimulate demand which would create more jobs and rising demand for labor might put upward pressure on wages. If it’s used to speculate on fuel and food prices and drive up housing it hurts them. We’ve chosen the later.

Sure thing, Rambo.

more lies promulgated by the duplicitous evil left.

show me where any of that BS is referenced. many people study serial killers without approving what they do, or liking them. let’s see the proof that she admired hickman or anyone like him..

Saul Alinsky admired the mafia but it is ok to follow his tactics if you are a community organizer.

more lies promulgated by the duplicitous evil left.

Read it and weep “Mr Austrian Economics”.

Goddess of the Market: Ayn Rand and the American Right amazon dot com.

“A wonderful book: beautifully written, completely balanced, extensively researched. The match between author and subject is so perfect that one might believe that the author was chosen by the gods to write this book. She has sympathy and affection for her subject but treats her as a human being, with no attempt to cover up the foibles.”
–Mises Economics Blog
(American organization named for Austrian School economist Ludwig von Mises (1881-1973). Its website states that it is “the world center of the Austrian School of economics and libertarian political) wiki

“A terrific book–a serious consideration of Rand’s ideas, and her role in the conservative movement of the past three quarters of a century.” --The American Thinker
(American Thinker is a daily conservative online magazine dealing with American politics, foreign policy, national security, Israel, economics,….) wiki

“….What did Rand admire so much about Hickman? His sociopathic qualities: “Other people do not exist for him, and he does not see why they should,” she wrote, gushing that Hickman had “no regard whatsoever for all that society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. He has the true, innate psychology of a Superman. He can never realize and feel ‘other people.’” exiledonline dot com

Saul Alinsky admired the mafia but it is ok to follow his tactics if you are a community organizer.

well said Dan.

‘no regard whatsoever’

Kind of like Obama, no? How many children did he have killed just the other day? Was it 10 or 12? But who’s counting at the White House? Just throw it on the pile of thousands of children and other innocents he’s murdered.

Instead of sitting on your high horse, putting down people that have been dead for half a century, maybe you should pay a little attention to the war criminal in chief who is killing people right now, today.

your claim is that rand admired hickman. she didn’t admire him. she drew the line at his degeneracy.

rand did not admire his sociopathic qualities. find it in her own words, not someone else’s accusations. you post hearsay and call it fact. not so.

here’s part of what of one response to the allegation:

“I am not suprised to see the Rand/Hickman thing being brought out as a weapon against Rand’s resurgence; it just shows how desperate the Left is right now.

There’s a certain irony here, too, involving hypocrisy on the Left’s part. In Journals of Ayn Rand, Rand is presented as clearly drawing the line at where the “admiration” ends, with the degeneracy and murders. (I’d add that while this was not Rand at her maturity, the Hickman story and her inversion of criminals into heroes in her fiction is best understood in the context of the trickster archetype, and the Nietzschean concept of the “transvaluation of values.”)

Contrast that with Rand’s criticism of the Left’s “admiration” for the very same subject, not for the virtues, but FOR the degeneracy.

From The Romantic Manifesto:

“…to escape from guilt and arouse pity, one has to portray man as impotent and innately loathsome. Hence the competition among modern artists to find every lower levels of depravity and even higher degrees of mawkishness–a competition to show the public out of its wits and jerks its tears. Hence the frantic search for misery, the descent from compassionate studies of alchoholism and sexual perversion to dope, incest, psychosis, murder, cannablism.”

it is truly the left that glorifies depravity.

it is truly the left that glorifies depravity.
1943, Josef Mengele talking about Josef Stalin

find it in her own words,

I did: From her words and her biographer who’s book was esteemed by the right. Read it and weep:
“Other people do not exist for him, and he does not see why they should,” she wrote, gushing that Hickman had “no regard whatsoever for all that society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. He has the true, innate psychology of a Superman. He can never realize and feel ‘other people.’”

i knew of hickman, but only superficially. rand has been misrepresented so many times before, that i believed she must have been misrepresented again. but if she really said some of the things she apparently did say about hickman, i have to admit (much as it pains me) that you are right. however, i am going to look into it further.

i can however disavow her as a person, without disavowing her philosophy. even before hickman there were some minor things i disagreed with her on. for instance, i’ve never agreed that selfishness is a virtue (rand), or that greed is good (gordon gekko). however, if you substitute those two words (selfishness and greed) for the word ‘ambition’, then i would agree with the statements. again, that i agree with rand on most things doesn’t mean that i agree with everything she said. there was a ‘better’ word for greed that gekko didn’t know enough to utter. for most people ambition and greed are similar enough to pass for each other, but they are different in important ways. ambition is good, greed is not.

anyway, for now i’ll concede that you are right. but i’m still going to look for the mistake. in my heart i don’t believe rand was a bad person, but i’m much less convinced now that she was as good i gave her credit for after reading some things that she apparently said about hickman.

i’m reading some who say that she drew a distinction at the murder and depravity of hickman. i’d love to find that distinction, but so far i haven’t been able to.

i’ll take back what i said about the left lying on this. but i reserve the right to take it back if i find evidence that she was taken out of context again.

i reserve the right to take it back if i find evidence that she was taken out of context

Nice post. Fair post. And likewise…..neither of us has a monopoly on the truth on every issue. And the truth is not always the easiest thing to determine because sometimes….the truth lies somewhere between points of view.

I think she would have been in grade school about then, if she was even in town. I looked up her background because her looks were so unique. She is Thai and Swedish. I think her father was a local Mormon, not sure if he met her mother on a mission or some other way.

The town of Delta actually is very interesting. It has a bad smell to it because of the number of hog farms in the area, so a rural area does not always mean clean smelling air. The hotel I stayed at, had the biggest bed I have even seen. I really think it is because the cliental including polygamists. It is a green area due to irrigation and has some beauty and the Drum Mountains, a little way from the town, do have a lot of history to them, old gold mines from the old West. You feel you have step back into the 1880s when you are in those mountains.

You feel you have step back into the 1880s

You sure it wasn’t 1861?

old gold mines from the old West ??

Dredging ?? Is that what is contaminating the water…

Hey Rio how are the slaves on the sugar plantations in Brazil doing? Apparently, there are not enough since you have to import ethanol from the US.

Link: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/04/08/who-can-help-brazils-oil-industry-stop-the-bleedin.aspx

Another link about sugar cane slavery and Brazil: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/mar/09/brazil.renewableenergy

Hey Rio how are the slaves on the sugar plantations in Brazil doing?

Almost as well as the unpaid interns and slave laborers in the USA I’d imagine. But do you think bashing Brazil to a born American is really that bothersome?

Does slavery bother you? You’ve explained today on this board how white’s are smarter than brown and black people. By definition, that means you believe whites are superior albuquerquedan. As usual you flail (at what seems to you grand) pronouncements but you fail to connect the dots or see the big picture.

Believing your race is superior to other races was the key mental illness that made slavery acceptable to so many racists throughout history. Is this not true? If it is not true then why is it not true?

Thank you albuquerquedan. So because of a 2007 article on exploited sugar workers and some bad Brazilian oil industry numbers, that means Sweden is successful because they are white? And because brown people are inferior? This is your logic?

You do realize how you are looking again today, no?

I see that you should be writing Biden’s speech. Someone that does not agree with you wants to put blacks in chains. It is an over the top attack on a person because you have nothing else to refute what I say. My arguments are factual and you should care more about what is going on in present day Brazil, since it is something you can do something about. The story is from 2007 but it continues today and I have posted more recent articles.
I cannot change what happened in 1861. As a former Vermonter, I am proud we abolished slavery in 1777. I am proud of Vermont’s role in the movement to abolish slavery in the rest of the nation, at that time. I am also proud that on a per capita basis Vermont lost more men fighting slavery than any other state except Ohio. And the people involved in that war included my ancestors.

you have nothing else to refute what I say.

I totally refuted what you said on race and on Sweden’s form of government not being that important of a factor in their success.

Someone that does not agree with you wants to put blacks in chains.

As like someone who does not agree with you would condone Brazilian “slave labor”? Or that Brazil or Brazilians as a whole would condone that? Or that Brazil has not made it a national priority to fight? Or that it does not occur in America?

It is an over the top…..

Like you implication Sweden would be successful under any type government because it was white? That’s not “over the top”?

you should care more about what is going on in present day Brazil, since it is something you can do something about.

Really? I can “do something” about it? And not get kicked-out? You obviously don’t know the laws regarding Brazilian green-card holders. This ain’t America.

I do not have time to respond to all of your false claims but lets start with one of the largest. I said Sweden would be successful under any system because it had a high IQ, you then change it to white and accuse me of saying it. You are so intellectually dishonest.

I said Sweden would be successful under any system because it had a high IQ, you then change it to white

Give me a break with that coded obvious BS.

So I “changed” Swedes to being white? One of the lily-whitest demographics in the entire world? Swedes being whiter than white never crossed your mind?

And I changed Somalis to being black? I did this? You had no idea Somalis were almost ALL black and brown?

You are so intellectually dishonest.

Asians also have high IQs, some even more higher than swedes but you ignore that. Sorry the issue is not black and white. I have always admitted that blacks on average have a lower IQ than whites. I used Somalis since we have admitted a large number to this country without thinking it through. We have also admitted large numbers from Sudan. Of course while the average IQ in Somali is around 84, the immigrants from Sudan come from a country where the average IQ is 72 on the world scale.The PC way is just to ignore this reality. I have seen numerous stories in PC papers about how these groups are not assimilating. However, the PC way is to blame the communities and the failure of the schools. Perhaps it is a challenge to assimilate someone with an IQ of 72 in a population with an average IQ of 100 or more. Perhaps, we cannot afford the cost of doing it anymore. However, we cannot even have the discussion because the religion of PC will not allow it to occur. Creating good public policy depends on being give good information. Our media refuses to do that usually because they are so PC.

BTW, the silver lining is that the individual differences between the races far exceeds the gap between the races. Thus, we can and always treat people like individuals and not prejudge things like IQ. However, we should not expect the same group outcomes. The NBA is not racist because blacks are 80%+ of the league. In fact, affirmative action is practice in fact if not by policy. Similarly, I reject just because blacks are underrepresented in a particular profession it proves racism. However, true racism does exist because many people can not make the distinction I make in the first line of this post.

Really? I can “do something” about (Brazilian politics/policies)? And not get kicked-out? You obviously don’t know the laws regarding Brazilian green-card holders.

What I mean is that I’m an American with a Brazilian “Permanent” Residence Card. (Brazil’s version of a “green-card”)

(I’m not a Brazilian with an American green card)

Asians also have high IQs, some even more higher than swedes but you ignore that.

No. You ignore my not ignoring that.

“The Chinese have high IQs as well but faltered under their Communism.”
RioAmericanInBrasil 2013-04-09 08:28:19

The point being, is that Sweden’s economic and political systems are just as important or even more important than their IQ’s for their success.

And there is a way to get beyond race in a couple of generations and we would all benefit from it, well maybe not the race hustlers. If we had a policy that gave an economic incentive for people with low IQs not to have children and we applied it in a racially neutral fashion, within a few generations the gap between the races would have closed. We would as a society have less crime and less dependency and we would have moved beyond race. The result would be the mirror image of the movie idiocracy.

And there is a way to get beyond race in a couple of generations

There’s another way too, and it’s actually happening:

Today’s younger generations barely recognize race, since they’ve grown up with so many mixed-race friends. A few more generations and we’ll look like a fatter version of Brazil.

Even some in the GOP are starting to realize this. Although most are still stuck in a 1950s racial mindset, like yourself.

within a few generations the gap between the races would have closed. We would as a society have less crime and less dependency

We’d have less crime and dependency right now and today if even lower paying jobs offered a living wage and dignity.

I’ll bet a janitor in Sweden has better benefits and a better live than an American janitor.

We can’t all be “smart”.

Even some in the GOP are starting to realize this. Although most are still stuck in a 1950s racial mindset, like yourself.

Eisenhower wanted equality of opportunity not forced equality. I feel the same. If that is the 50’s mindset I accept it. If you are implying I make judgments on some one’s race and treat them accordingly you are wrong. I do not accept any ideology or religions that makes me ignore facts. Every one should be treated as an individual but it does not mean that I have to ignore group scores like they do not exist.
Many of the younger generation believe what they are told by the pc police, not reality. That is why they accept that global warming is primarily manmade despite no warming for almost twenty years but rising co2 concentrations. Schools teach what to think not how to think. The core subjects are neglected while political correctness gets taught as fact. Many of our schools are more like re-education camps than schools.

Today’s younger generations barely recognize race, since they’ve grown up with so many mixed-race friends. A few more generations and we’ll look like a fatter version of Brazil.

Do you mean poor and stagnating economically despite vast resources? Have you even looked at the per capita income of Brazil?

“The Chinese have high IQs as well but faltered under their Communism.”
RioAmericanInBrasil 2013-04-09 08:28:19

Yes, and if I would have referred to communism as a failure of socialism you would have said that I confuse political systems with economic systems. No, you can create political systems that would hold back the Chinese but any economic or political system that does not shoot people for succeeding will result in success for the Chinese or the Swedes.

Per capita income Brazil 2012 $12,000, the US $49,800. Despite this wage advantage, they grew even slower than the US last year. I guess we will be a fatter Brazil at least until we decline enough economically to be like them.

Have you even looked at the per capita income of Brazil?

You mean the Brazilian per capita income that’s up about 25% since 2005?

http://www.theglobaleconomy.com/Brazil/indicator-NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.KD/

Or are you thinking about the USA per capita income that is all the way back DOWN to about 2006 levels?

http://www.theglobaleconomy.com/USA/indicator-NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.KD/

Three comments albuquerquedan. Try to keep up. Alpha was addressing ethnic demographics not GDP but even then you are wrong about the big picture, numbers and trends.

The Brazilian GDP per capita has grown much faster than America’s has for 10 years. America’s has almost SHRUNK. See above. Did Brazil’s come from from a lower level? Of course! It’s BRAZIL dude.

Last point of Brazil because I don’t care what you think about it anyway and I’m not even Brazilian. Brazil’s GDP growth has been shared much more equally with its people. Most people have benefited. When USA grows, most benefits go to the rich………

However when the USA GDP shrunk, MOST of the burden fell on everyone but the rich. USA GDP shrunk but the rich still got richer! Dude that’s a farce. So why you bashing a once poor Brazil that is making economic reforms and good progress? Because they are not the “high IQ Swede type folks” or you just don’t like my politics?

Here’s your supply-side at work…..NOT:

This extraordinary growth of GDP per capita seen lately in Brazil is a consequence of income redistribution combined with robust economic growth. With a new middle class that emerged in Brazil since 2003, a greater share of the aggregate income has been distributed to households with a relatively high propensity to consume thus boosting mass consumption in the domestic market. Social income transfer programs were strongly pushed through by the government, and this is likely to continue in the coming years.

Will Brazil’s GDP per Capita Continue to Boom?

http://blog.securities.com/2010/12/will-brazil%E2%80%99s-gdp-per-capita-continue-to-boom/

Despite this wage advantage, they grew even slower than the US last year.

“Last year”…….Last year????? Brazil’s growth rate has beaten the pants of America’s for the past 12 years and you cite “last year”? And we are to take you seriously on ANY stats numbers and trends?

“Last year”??? Good grief.

Despite this wage advantage,

Wage advantage?? Brazil has no “wage advantage.” How many things in America are “Made in Brazil”?? Almost nada. Brazil is a high cost producer. Something they are working on.

Will Brazil’s GDP per Capita Continue to Boom?

GDP isn’t the economy. the economy can be improving while GDP is contracting, and visa versa. believing that GDP is the economy, is the same as believing in the broken window fallacy.

GDP isn’t the economy.

I tried to point that out. In the USA, GDP is not the economy for 95% of Americans. Mostly only the rich in the USA benefit from rising GDP. However the rising GDP in Brazil has done a decent job “trickling down” to the people because the government MADE it trickle down with policy.

Again, from the above article:

This extraordinary growth of GDP per capita seen lately in Brazil is a consequence of income redistribution combined with robust economic growth. With a new middle class that emerged in Brazil since 2003, a greater share of the aggregate income has been distributed to households with a relatively high propensity to consume thus boosting mass consumption in the domestic market.

GDP is not the economy for 95% of Americans.

GDP isn’t the economy for any country. GDP isn’t the economy, period.

GDP isn’t the economy, period.

GDP is a definite and important part of ANY economy. But it is how countries choose to use it, divide it and distribute it that can make or break economies and/or their middle class.

of course GDP is ‘part’ of the economy.

Indeed it was pre-Internet.

Inconceivable.

I am about the same on everything you said there Rio…

Son, you are now officially adopted. I’ll
change my will tomorrow.

This reminds me of my experience - I would describe myself as a pro-capitalism centrist Democrat. When I lived in Southern Indiana I was a considered to be a foaming-at-the-mouth socialist, hell-bent on destroying God & Country. Now I live in LA and work in the entertainment industry, and am thought of as a reactionary, right-wind fundie. It’s all about context.

When I lived in Southern Indiana

So. Illinois here.
In about 1969 my family would cross (at “our own risk”) a decrepit and condemned bridge over the Wabash River to go to the YMCA in Vincennes Indiana. I remember my parents wondering if we should do it. Heck yea! We wanna go swimmin’ at the Y. (Not the river) We did it. I’m here.

Now I live in Brazil and crossing such a bridge still exists here but not there. (But there are no signs to worry us here)

My parents saw “Hair” in Evansville. I’m getting older and I love it.

Rancher — LOL.

Rio — your problem may be that you like to poke holes in dogmatic posters’ arguments (also happens to be one of my better qualities, btw…). Folks with extreme world views instantly label you as their enemy if you dare to point out how stupid their points are.

Rio, Heard about the Samoans who hunt pig
with knives and spears? No back-up either.

Meet two of them while in Jolan, backside
of the coastal mountains near Hunter Leggit.
They crawl on hands and knees through the
underbrush till they find their prey.

google: wild pigs, spears, CA

Rio, Heard about the Samoans who hunt pig
with knives and spears?

I did hear about that. Wild……I never saw it though.

And no back up… Dang.

“Same thing hazard and at one TREELION DOLLARS!”

Should not be a problem, how much mortgage debt disappeared? 6 - 7 TREELION DOLLARS?

Agreed on The Mall. One of the best hangouts and people-watching venues in the United States.

Is a husband slapped with a restraining order during a divorce proceeding a criminal, even if there was never a threat against the the ex-wife?

Another reason to stay single.

These are perfectly normal citizens who have, through the normal course of their lives, new become ineligible to bear arms…

All your examples are exaggerations. Once the restraining order is over, you can possess a gun again.

I can’t find any examples of everyone who is on anti-anxiety meds losing their right to bear arms, except in the gun-nut files.

Is a husband slapped with a restraining order during a divorce proceeding a criminal, even if there was never a threat against the the ex-wife?

“restraining orders based on a claim of actual or threatened violence or harassment prohibit the subject individual from buying, Imagepossessing or receiving firearms.”
-gunlawdotcom

Next distortion of the truth?

Another consideration is that economic production is not the only measure of human worth and intelligence is not the only measure of genetic fitness.

There are people in Africa that have not developed AIDS in spite of having been infected with HIV. Differences in immune response could end up being vital to the survival of the species.

We would be wise to preserve genetic diversity.

I’m sure that some of them did — especially the ones who were deemed too-big-to-fail and thus handed gobzillions in ZIRP loans at the point when the rest of the U.S. economy was flat on the floor.