The Housing Bubble

“No, they haven’t.”

Are you a lying Realtor™? ‘Fess up. Either you are a mathematics ignoramus or you are a liar, and perhaps both.

You’re letting me off easy, why didn’t you include the possibility of me being all three, a Realtor, mathematics ignoramus, and a liar?

Hey Liar….. Sale price was $77k in 2004…. it’s now $145k…..

And you have the audacity to post a “forecast”?

Keep it up.

“Hey Liar….. Sale price was $77k in 2004…. it’s now $145k….. ”

That March of ‘04 dip looks anomalous. In August of ‘03 it was $124K. That chart in itself doesn’t make the case that prices doubled. The years prior to that, which are unavailable from zillow, would tell more of the story.

And when the bubble began in 1997 it was $60k.

Your point is?

And when the bubble began in 1997 it was $60k.

Tell me again how the dollar is worth just as much today as it was in 1997…

How many times do you need to be schooled on inflation?

“And when the bubble began in 1997 it was $60k.
Your point is?”

That you linked to a chart that doesn’t show what you feel it surely does.

That you deny it doesn’t have the bearing on the truth you think it does.

What did it cost to build less depreciation?

Why don’t you start building in Greenville if you want to see a lower average price.

They’re falling just fine on their own.

Now answer the question. What did it cost to build less depreciation?

You answer the question. Why aren’t you building houses?

You obviously have time on your hands.

We do business in all 48 states.

Now ANSWER the question.

Straw man tactics won’t get you very far around these parts.

It didn’t look like a straw-man to me; he is making a completely reasonable point: that some of the data looks suspect. I agree.

They only thing suspect is you. Liar.

LOL…

And I thank you for the constant entertainment.

Thank you for your constant source of misinformation. It’s fun schooling you.

pimp is an idiot

Dominating the message here isn’t working out for you lying realtors now is it?

pimp is an idiot. Just sayin’…

You’re a liar…. just sayin’.

You’re a liar…. just sayin’…

The deed doesn’t lie but the liar does.

Good luck Mike, you hadn’t posted here in a while. Its always good to hear from you.

btw, just curious what kind of return are you looking at after paying all the salaries and overhead. i think its ok to buy a ‘job’ even if you break even provided you give yourself generous raises - at least you are your own boss with a retail business. Did you buy the land as well?

Yes I own the lot and the shack(yes, shack) on it is ours now. Could build on it at some point but the farmstore has been there for 80yrs. 600sq ft.
It is convenient to the school where I work most days. Its only the first day but my sixth grade son is there working with my wife right now. He wants money for a skateboard. Daughter is downloading quickbooks right now as well.

Yes I am buying a job for my wife/kids. Only hope to pay a rate that rivals her retail rate(12 bux/hr), to start. Then we hope and are planning to do better from there.
I also need a summer job as teaching gets pretty dry summer months. I am contracting with farmer friends to source things various and sundry. And more organics coming soon.

Good for you, mike! I hope the new venture goes great for you!

(just be careful with the back/lifting…)

Good luck Mike! You’re gonna need it!

$0 down with low low payments! ??

Thats not a price point those are called terms…

Entry level $200k in Bend. Bend “No Jobs” Oregon.

“Entry level $200k in Bend. Bend “No Jobs” Oregon.”

+1 Succinct, genuinely honest.

Window well is what I was describing.

realtors don’t care about codes or safety, so they’ll just call the rooms “bedrooms” anyway. kind of disgusting when you think about it. any parent who would let a child or elderly grandparent sleep down there is clearly negligent.

Are these illegal living spaces or illegal appartments? Either way a sign of Bubble territory.

realtors don’t care about codes or safety ??

Right up to the point when the Plaintiff Lawyer manila envelope comes in the mail…Then they care…

Either way a sign of Bubble territory.

Basement bedrooms with questionable 2nd means of egress (small windows) have been around since man first discovered the idea of ‘finishing’ his basement. I had friends growing up who had them as bedrooms even though there were unused bedrooms upstairs. We thought they were cool. The pool table and home bar were usually right outside your door, in the ‘rec room’- the other essential room of the finished basement.

It’s all fun and games until there’s a fire.

Fire?

I remember when cars didn’t come with seat belts.

We were not as cowardly a nation back then.

Blue, sloth is right. These are definitely simply questionable bedrooms. They are not “apartments” because there is rarely a kitchen down there. But I’m sure that those bedrooms are rented out to various guest workers and their families. My realtor tells me that she’s been in a lot of houses which have sign-up sheets in the kitchen, for the various families to arrange when they cook.

In order to legally rent out space, you need to apply for a zoning exception from the county, get inspected, etc. I don’t know anyone who has done that.

And we died a lot more often in gruesome ways.

Back in those days we were skinny enough to climb in and out of those little windows.

When the benefit of a building code exceeds its cost, it is generally a good thing. There are good reasons to promote safety beyond costs, but this case is clear cut even without looking at moral implications. It costs a relatively little amount to create a means of escape from a fire. Whether it be a fire escape on a walk-up apartment, a basement window well, or a reinforced fire escape in a tall building.

If you want to go back to the world of “The Jungle” to prove you’re an internet tough guy… so be it. There is tough and then there is greedy/short sighted/cheap/dumb. Have at it.

——————–
Fire?

I remember when cars didn’t come with seat belts.

We were not as cowardly a nation back then.

Also, seatbelts save a ton of resources/money/lives. It takes a lot more resources to handle someone who has been thrown from a car. It drives up everyone’s car insurance as well. Moreover, CHILDREN do not have the basis to know what risks they should take. If some dumbass adult wants to proudly not wear their “nanny state seat belt” then it’s a different moral equation. But seatbelts save lives, resources, etc. It’s very easy to make a conservative argument for seatbelts.

Moreover, with a means of egress, again, you have the issues of CHILDREN not having a choice. If someone’s parents are too cheap or unconcerned, the child should not have to pay the price with his/her life. Again, as with seat belts, it also conserves public resources because you don’t have to send firemen into a basement with no egress AND you save firemen from having the enter the basement in the first place if the person is able to get themselves out (if, say, the main stairwell is blocked or burning).

Property insurance is also cheaper where there are good safety practices in the code. And, of course, where people follow them instead of acting like an unethical realtard.

But hey, Mr. Short-sighted, you can live in Alabama or Kentucky if you want. They probably take your enlightened view of lax building codes

P.S. #pwned.

Oxy, if the basement rooms are appartments for rent, then it’s not the pool table, wetbar and bedroom that Alpha (and I) grew up with. It’s a screaming signal that house prices are in bubble territory.

It’s definitely a sign of a bubble. And it’s also a sign that the sellers and their realtard are scumbags.

Blue, those basements are NOT full apartments for rent to, say, students or a very young couple starting out. They are single rooms almost invariably rented out to undocumented immigrants, where they all share the living room and have a sign up sheet for their use of the kitchen.* Living 9-10 in a house means that they can work under the table, or for less than minimum wage, and send money back home.

Why is leasing out a room an indicator or bubble pricing? Because the minimum wage renter couldn’t afford to buy a house himself? That’s a pretty low bar for bubble.

——————
*I don’t know if the basement dwellers get dibs on the basement second bathroom, or if that too is considered communal.

Less than 4,000 people a year die in fires.

11,000+ are killed by firearms.

Less than 4,000 people a year die in fires.

11,000+ are killed by firearms.

And somebody posted yesterday about the hundreds of thousands that die in other ways that would seem at least partially preventable.

Comment by Steve J
2013-04-16 11:56:23
Less than 4,000 people a year die in fires.

11,000+ are killed by firearms.
—————

Correct, and the dramatic decrease in fire deaths has a lot to do with building codes.

Same with auto accident fatalities decreasing for people using seatbelts, airbags, ABS, etc.

I can tell you really want to go back to The Jungle era. Try again.

I had never really thought about the safety aspects of sleeping in the basement. My folks have a home with the garage in the basement and an additional exit under the balcony at the other end of the house. Would that meet fire codes for having a bedroom in the basement?

And somebody posted yesterday about the hundreds of thousands that die in other ways that would seem at least partially preventable.

About 80 gun deaths PER DAY in this country.

Yup. And a bunch more of other kinds of deaths.

My folks have a home with the garage in the basement and an additional exit under the balcony at the other end of the house.

I don’t think so—I believe the bedroom _itself_ has to have two exits, not just have two exits available after you leave the single-door into the bedroom.

Excuse the butt in.
Speaking of fire codes, we are one of the few in our floor plan (of newer owners) not to change the shape of the LR fireplace because a general contractor friend explained the C0 risk and why the fireplace metal/brick configuration was done that way originally . I’d rather have a bulking looking FP, then a deadly one. (Air flow issue.) Interesting that people didn’t know or worse yet, didn’t care. Hey, it looks better!

When we had the chimney fixed, the FP expert warned us not to break the fire code as well.

Hey you two Debt Monkees

What did you pay for your debt shacks?

Only the downpayment plus whatever mortgage payments they make before deciding it would be more frugal to walk away? Or in other words, $50/sq ft!

yep, was going to post something to that effect….am a SF native and the illegal “inlaw” apts. go waaay back, are very common, and are nothing new. briefly lived in one myself back in the ’80’s

the chance to get a great deal on a foreclosure is past

Yup, never to return. I’m priced out forever.

BTW, since Cramer has just recommended gold, I am not as confident in the bounce.

The guy who imagined them up can all he wants.

Nope—he/she/they can imagine up a whole new type of currency, but he/she/they can’t imagine up more Bitcoins.

Really? They told you so didn’t they. They didn’t tell you who they are did they?

But those drones are so cool!

And at least one Congressman agrees with her.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/roommate_calls_saudi_national_quiet_vKFFJMC0WCaQmAofxNDHmO

His Muslim roommate says he is a good guy so I guess we should just move on.

WOT?

http://spitfirelist.com/news/iranianhezbollah-terror-team-allegedly-arrested-in-argentina-descendants-of-wwii-nazis-involved-in-plot/

McVeigh was hanging out with a group called the Aryan Republican Army, a bank-robbing band of Christian Identity racists. Homegrown terrorist trash. And they hated the big, bad gubbermit, too.

I think if we dug a little harder with McVeigh we would have found the middle east connection.

Really? I’m not an expert on him but my recollection of the things people wrote after interviewing him made it sound like he really understood the Constitution and the founding of our country and was just really frustrated with where we were going as a country. Didn’t seem like there needs to be a middle east connection.

was just really frustrated with where we were going as a country
Andrew Kehoe, a treasurer for a school board, was defeated as a candidate for township clerk & became disgruntled with how the board & the township were run. So he dynamited the school and killed 44 people there. It was the largest mass murder in the US until the OKC bombing. Any excuse, or none, is good enough for this kind of evil-doing.

The connection of many of the right wing and the Muslims is their belief in the protocols of Zion, you know the Jews run the world belief/ BTW, I heard on the BBC that the Saudi that is being investigated comes from a very prominent and influential family. The type that get put on a private plane and sent out of the country without further investigation.

It has posted yet but here is information about the writer of the book I am suggesting:
Jayna Davis has worked in broadcast news since 1986, reporting in Texas, California, and Oklahoma. Between 1993 and 1997, she worked at KFOR-TV in Oklahoma City as an investigative reporter and, as such, covered the OKC bombing story from the first moments. In 2001 she founded Journalists’ Committee for Justice, a nonprofit organization that has carried on the OKC investigation. She has received many awards over the years, including “Best Investigative Report” in 1994 from Associated Press and again, in 1995, from Oklahoma Association of Broadcasting.

BTW, have you ever seen anyone is the US in the recent history executed so fast? I don’t care if he wanted it, the government could not seem to execute him fast enough.

Still has not posted but here is the name of her book and it says it all:

The Third Terrorist: The Middle East Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing [Paperback

This is from another amazon book written by McVeigh’s lawyer. I have not read the book but I have read independent sources that also make the same claims:

Jones, the Oklahoma lawyer who was court-appointed chief counsel for convicted mass murderer Timothy McVeigh, believes that his former client, whose bombing of an Oklahoma federal building in 1995 claimed 168 lives, did not get a fair trial. Jones says he does not know if McVeigh (whose death sentence is under appeal by different counsel) actually carried out the bombing?but even if he knew, he adds, he couldn’t tell because of rules of attorney-client privilege. However, Jones’s contention that the jurors “did not convict the right man,” and that “Tim” (as he constantly calls McVeigh) may have been a patsy in a much larger conspiracy isn’t convincing. His labyrinthine attempt to prove that the government’s case was highly circumstantial, full of discrepancies and suppressed evidence is marred by his passionate personal involvement as a defense lawyer. Nevertheless, this first-person brief, written with former Putnam publisher Israel, does raise troubling questions and introduces evidence that was not allowed in the trial. Jones cites witnesses who allege that co-conspirator Terry Nichols made repeated trips to the Philippines, where he learned how to make bombs and was recruited into a cabal by Islamic terrorist Ramzi Yousef (indicted as mastermind of the New York World Trade Center bombing). Jones also points a finger at Elohim City, a white supremacist group in Oklahoma whose members were planning to bomb the federal building. His suggestion that McVeigh and Nichols may have been part of a larger conspiracy with foreign terrorist connections cannot be dismissed out of hand. Agent, Peter Matson, Sterling Lord Literistic.

I am not sure if it is lost in cyber space so I will post this again, for the attorney of McVeigh:

Jones, the Oklahoma lawyer who was court-appointed chief counsel for convicted mass murderer Timothy McVeigh, believes that his former client, whose bombing of an Oklahoma federal building in 1995 claimed 168 lives, did not get a fair trial. Jones says he does not know if McVeigh (whose death sentence is under appeal by different counsel) actually carried out the bombing?but even if he knew, he adds, he couldn’t tell because of rules of attorney-client privilege. However, Jones’s contention that the jurors “did not convict the right man,” and that “Tim” (as he constantly calls McVeigh) may have been a patsy in a much larger conspiracy isn’t convincing. His labyrinthine attempt to prove that the government’s case was highly circumstantial, full of discrepancies and suppressed evidence is marred by his passionate personal involvement as a defense lawyer. Nevertheless, this first-person brief, written with former Putnam publisher Israel, does raise troubling questions and introduces evidence that was not allowed in the trial. Jones cites witnesses who allege that co-conspirator Terry Nichols made repeated trips to the Philippines, where he learned how to make bombs and was recruited into a cabal by Islamic terrorist Ramzi Yousef (indicted as mastermind of the New York World Trade Center bombing). Jones also points a finger at Elohim City, a white supremacist group in Oklahoma whose members were planning to bomb the federal building. His suggestion that McVeigh and Nichols may have been part of a larger conspiracy with foreign terrorist connections cannot be dismissed out of hand. Agent, Peter Matson, Sterling Lord Literistic.

I heard on the BBC that the Saudi that is being investigated comes from a very prominent and influential family.

Link?

Sorry I heard it on my sat radio in the car.

I look for the link but it is not on the BBC. I have found an article that has very similar language to what I heard:

http://warsclerotic.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/saudi-terror-cell-possibly-al-qaeda-behind-boston-marathon-bombings-manhunt-for-escaped-suspect/

Explain what you mean. There is enhanced scrunity associated with certain issues that I think you might be talking about (but can’t say since your 2 word post is vague).

There is also a Voting Rights Act in play for certain states, so the issue is less Constitutional and more statutory.

There are also Federal election laws on point, as well as regulations laid down by the FEC.

In other words, you can’t bypass all those issues, you need to deal with them in the context of new regulations on any aspects of elections or voting (from campaign finance to same day registration to motor voter laws, etc).

Hope this helps.

courts have upheld reasonable voting ID laws for example.

Courts have upheld reasonable ones and struck others down for various reasons. It would be the same thing with gun control legislation. I imagine universal gun registration or confiscation would easily be struck down. On the other hand, requiring universal background checks or removing guns from the homes of people with medically documented psychiatric issues or who have threatened a spouse/ex spouse seems like it would easily be upheld.

I imagine universal gun registration or confiscation would easily be struck down.

I would hope so. My concern is how long would it take from the time enforcement began to when the Supreme Court would hear the case and rule? A lot of stuff can happen during that time…

I sure hope removing guns from people with documented psychiatric issues would not pass easily. People do not seem understand “mental illness” is extremely varied in regards to level of functioning and ability to be rational and in reality. I’m actually quite offended that every time I hear talk of this, people seem to regard anyone with a diagnosis as “crazy”. I have some issues myself, and I’m clearly rational. *Sigh*

I’m actually quite offended that every time I hear talk of this, people seem to regard anyone with a diagnosis as “crazy”. I have some issues myself
This phenomenon combines projection, scapegoating, and lazy thinking into a nice package. People who deny they have any “issues” are the worst of all.

I appreciate your response. I’m glad there are people that recognize it for what it is. I’m all for making sure violence is prevented as much as possible, but demonizing every person in the mental health system make people less likely to get help.

Autism, ADHD, Depression, Bipolar Disorder, etc. I’ve come to believe we’re all on a spectrum somewhere. I think it’s time as a society we admit it, that it’s always been that way, we stop singling people out, and we move on.

we stop singling people out
We still must try to identify those who are dangerous to themselves &/or others, as hard and uncertain as that may be. Sometimes they can be identified and stopped, sometimes they can’t be. Those who are greedy or have another related agenda can and will mis-use the identification process, as in the old USSR.

Also in remarkably poor taste since my mother lost 5 pregnancies (well, 4, one was twins) because of the bad medical care she got while accompanying my father in his overseas military postings. She was in the hospital when President Kennedy was killed. The women from the South (60s equivalent of teabillies) who were also in her room cheered the news.

I’m not sure if he knew that, I think we can all agree that the general case of abortion is distasteful and shouldn’t be taken lightly. But Banana, per usual, adds absolutely nothing beyond hackneyed moralizing. It’s not just his politics, it’s the lazy, sloppy stupidity of it. I imagine him drooling on his keyboard as he 2-finger-types his HBB posts.

Also in remarkably poor taste since my mother lost 5 pregnancies (well, 4, one was twins) because of the bad medical care

polly, what does abortion have to do with losing wanted pregnancies due to poor medical care? I can’t see any commonality between the two—so why would the comment upset you? Is every political discussion of abortion in “poor taste” in your book?

“The women…..cheered the news”

This is perhaps not the best example of good manners.

This is perhaps not the best example of good manners.

+infinity. IMHO, that’s an attrocious display of poor taste.

@joe smith

It only takes one finger to copy and paste Drudge Report links to HBB.

+infinity. IMHO, that’s an attrocious display of poor taste.

If someone’s your enemy, why is it a poor taste?

I mean how many Americans high-fived & celebrated (incliuding the president and his cabinet) the death of an unamrmed man sleeping at night?

It only takes one finger to copy and paste Drudge Report links to HBB.

What it takes to regurgitate same old lame meme in every post?

You think that women who were married to members of the US military weren’t acting in bad taste when they cheered the assination of their husbands’ commander in chief?

Of course it is even if she wasn’t married to the service man. All I was saying is there are way to many much worse things we practice everyday but conveniently forget because it is done by our side.

To be fair to Banana, blastocysts have more functioning biological systems than him, so I can see his concern in this case.

And you don’t have a uterus, so you don’t get a vote.

This is preposterous “logic”.

This is preposterous “logic”.
Don’t disturb her, she’s on a roll.

Let’s put it this way — When men start gestating fetuses in their scroti, I’ll give their creepy religious ranting its due. Until then, kindly keep your superstitious beliefs out of our medical decisions.

One doesn’t have to follow a religious doctrine to have some regard for human life. Bitterness can make one like the fallen oak leaf.

I’m sure you have a different take, but in a normal situation, the man is a full partner in the whole child producing and raising thing. To insist that a full partner in such an endeavor has no voice is abusive. I say this as a single father, but it wasn’t always so. I carried four kids on my back and under my arms and in my heart for a couple of decades. JMO, that trumps your uterus.

I never considered for more than a day at a time putting any of them to death though.

“JMO, that trumps your uterus.”

Pregnancy is potentially life threatening. I respect your care and effort in raising your children. But IMHO, it does not trump life threatening.

H2H, have you ever been pregnant? Is is not normally a life threatening situation, there is risk but it is a life bringing process. I do not wish to seem too callous, but driving to work on the four lane is much more likely life threatening. You can avoid pregnancy pretty easily, except for your 13 YO rape victim example. Even then, if you exterminate the offsrping, no need to call it a good thing.

“an acorn is an oak tree…”

It is unless it is destroyed.

“I’m sure you have a different take, but in a normal situation, the man is a full partner in the whole child producing and raising thing.”

ahansen makes a good case that suggests the partnership is unequal by nature. Having heard the screams in the delivery room up close and personal when the anesthesiologist showed up a bit too late to administer an epidural, I at least have a strong vicarious understanding of this.

“H2H, have you ever been pregnant?”

Yes. I was lucky. I conceived easily. Pregnancy, labor, and delivery were easy. I had plenty of milk. My husband called me a baby machine.

” Is is not normally a life threatening situation, there is risk but it is a life bringing process.”

Generally true. The problem with legislating against abortion is that in those unusual cases where pregnancy is life threatening, if laws are in place to prevent abortion, then it is more likely that both lives will be lost.

Do some research on Nicaragua’s abortion laws which criminalize abortion in all cases. Some doctors will not treat pregnant women with bleeding issues because they are afraid of being accused of abortion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Nicaragua

http://www.hrw.org/news/2007/08/29/nicaragua-blanket-ban-abortion-harms-women

” I do not wish to seem too callous, but driving to work on the four lane is much more likely life threatening.”

Irrelevant. I mitigate the risks as best I can. Making abortion illegal increases the risk to the mother.

“You can avoid pregnancy pretty easily, except for your 13 YO rape victim example.”

Men can avoid getting pregnant easily. Every woman is at risk of rape, even those who are abstinent.

If the odds of getting pregnant are 1 in 100, then every 100 times a woman has sex, she would get pregnant. For a married couple, this could be as frequently as once per year. 1 in 100 is the failure rate for the best birth control.

You may not want to limit access to or funding for birth control, but there are those who would. Until birth control is free and available to every girl or woman of childbearing age, pregnancy is not that easy to avoid for the fertile.

“Even then, if you exterminate the offsrping, no need to call it a good thing.”

Not every necessary thing is good.

A lot of abortions could be avoided if we had free access to birth control for every woman and if we de-stigmatized single pregnancy and provided free daycare and other financial support to mothers. Unfortunately, a lot of the folks who want to make abortion illegal also think birth control should be illegal. And some of them also do not want to pay to support unintended pregnancies or unwanted children.

Even with all of the above support systems, there would still be cases where abortion was necessary to save the life of the mother.

And there would still be cases where the fetus was terribly deformed and unable to survive on its own. Should a woman be required to carry a pregnancy to term in such cases? Even if it means bed rest for several months when her family depends on her income?

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-03-27/national/38057626_1_irish-abortion-ban-abortions-pro-life-campaign

Skye,
I love my kid beyond life itself, have suffered (yes, suffered) four miscarriages and never had an abortion. Yes, life is precious. And like you I believe our children are our blessing.

But not everyone feels that way all the time. No one decides to have an abortion out of convenience; it’s a biologically wrenching process (literally). But it really IS none of your business what a woman decides is best for her and HER pregnancy. Not yours or any man’s, not the government’s, not your god’s…hers.

And you’ve obviously never farmed in an oak biome.

that one…yes.

Everyone needs a phone.

Even Congress Wants To Know What The NSA Is Doing With This $2 Billion Utah Spy Center

Robert Johnson|April 04, 2012

Maybe you’ve heard of it and maybe you haven’t, but in Bluffdale, Utah alongside one of the largest polygamist sects in America, the NSA is building a one-million-square-foot data collection center — five times the size of the U.S. capital.

Despite immense secrecy, and construction workers with Top Secret clearances, news of the project made it to the pages of Wired last month. Intelligence authority James Bamford wrote that the center is part of President Bush’s “total information awareness” program that was killed by Congress in 2003 in response to public outrage over its potential for invading Americans privacy.

One senior intelligence official formerly involved with the project told Bamford “this is more than just a data center,” that it’s a code breaking megalopolis the likes of which the world has never seen.

Continue Below

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-04-04/news/31284683_1_nsa-secrecy-spy - 37k -

A house paid for with cash is not a debt shack.

Don’t engage him….Maybe he will go away…

I have a bulletin for you HomeDepot “contractor”….. we’re staying.

Maybe he will go away…

But people also said the housing bubble would go away and yet here we are…

A house paid for with cash is not a debt shack.
Only if it’s exempt from real estate taxation.

Don’t engage him….Maybe he will go away…

Joshua Tree Troll Inhibitor:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0QMI_-Iy8pod25GTjYwRTFZNlU

Works with firefox, enhances your HBB reading experience.

Only if it’s exempt from real estate taxation.

And you have the option of not ever paying rent and living under a bridge or in your parent’s basement.

Yet you don’t have the mental fortitude to take your own advice.

Hypocrite.

Just like you still living in a house you own? As opposed to selling it and becoming a renter.

Plenty of knife catchers out there to buy your house…

Hey Liar, prices are massively inflated. Why would they stop falling?

Hey Liar, We have plenty of houses for sale. This isn’t about me so don’t take it so personally.

buying a house still can be fun. To each his own…

LOL

Uh huh.. 30 years of mortgage slavery on a massively depreciating asset from which you’ll never recover is “‘fun”?

I hate to see your idea of a bad time.

Blah blah blah. Slavery. Blah blah blah. Works for some. Not for others. Let’s all be judgemental and echo-chambery now, why dont we…

Signing up for 30 years of massively inflated payments on a rapidly depreciating overpriced house works for who? Who?

Oh yeah…. you lying realtors.

Pimp is an idiot. Just sayin’

Weird, my sweet car depreciated the very day I bought it nine years ago, but I still am happy every day I spend in it. Perhaps some people are bitter about money, and perhaps some people are happy with life. But, the latter group tends not be pimps. Just sayin’…

Your losses are growing by the day….. just sayin.

ICLEI
Thanks for the link. I’ll read it after I get home.

51 degrees in So Ca this morning under a blue sky. We had breakfast in front of the fireplace to keep us warm. One of those moments in life you can’t get enough of.

Behin the Green Mask

Agenda 21 - In one easy lesson:

What is Sustainable Development?

According to its authors, the objective of sustainable development is to integrate economic, social and environmental policies in order to achieve reduced consumption, social equity, and the preservation and restoration of biodiversity. Sustainablists insist that every societal decision be based on environmental impact, focusing on three components; global land use, global education, and global population control and reduction. Social Equity (Social Justice) Social justice is described as the right and opportunity of all people “to benefit equally from the resources fforded us by society and the environment.” Redistribution of wealth. Private property is a social injustice since not everyone can build wealth from it. National sovereignty is a social injustice. Universal health care is a social justice. All part of Agenda 21 policy.

Economic Prosperity?

Public Private Partnerships (PPP). Special dealings between government and certain, chosen corporations which get tax breaks, grants and the government’s power of Eminent Domain to implement sustainable policy. Government-sanctioned monopolies.
Local Sustainable Development policies Smart Growth, Wildlands Project, Resilient Cities, Regional Visioning Projects, STAR Sustainable Communities, Green jobs, Green Building Codes, “Going Green,” Alternative Energy, Local Visioning, facilitators, regional planning, historic preservation, conservation easements, development rights, sustainable farming, comprehensive planning, growth management, consensus.

Who is behind it?

ICLEI – Local Governments for Sustainability (formally, International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives). Communities pay ICLEI dues to provide “local” community plans, software, training, etc. Addition groups include American Planning Council, The Renaissance Planning Group, International City/ County Management Group, aided by US Mayors Conference, National Governors Association, National League of Cities, National Association of County Administrators and many more private organizations and official government agencies. Foundation and government grants drive the process.

What gives Agenda 21 Ruling Authority?

More than 178 nations adopted Agenda 21 as official policy during a signing ceremony at the Earth Summit. US president George H.W. Bush signed the document for the US. In signing, each nation pledge to adopt the goals of Agenda 21. In 1995, President Bill Clinton, in compliance with Agenda 21, signed Executive Order #12858 to create the President’s Council on Sustainable Development in order to “harmonize” US environmental policy with UN directives as outlined in Agenda 21. The EO directed all agencies of the Federal Government to work with state and local community governments in a joint effort “reinvent” government using the guidelines outlined in Agenda 21. As a result, with the assistance of groups like ICLEI, Sustainable Development is now emerging as government policy in every town, county and state in the nation.
Revealing Quotes From the Planners
“Agenda 21 proposes an array of actions which are intended to be implemented by EVERY person on Earth…it calls for specific changes in the activities of ALL people… Effective execution of Agenda 21 will REQUIRE a profound reorientation of ALL humans, unlike anything the world has ever experienced ” Agenda 21: The Earth Summit Strategy to Save Our Planet (Earthpress, 1993). Emphases – DR

Urgent to implement – but we don’t know what it is!

“The realities of life on our planet dictate that continued economic development as we know it cannot be sustained…Sustainable development, therefore is a program of action for local and global economic reform – a program that has yet to be fully defined.” The Local Agenda 21 Planning Guide, published by ICLEI, 1996.

http://whatisagenda21.net/agenda21.htm - 19k -

alpha
Thanks to the HBB and Matt Taibbi (sp?) I am aware of the Koch Bros. At least the Rockefellers have a legacy of contribution to humanity along with the bad stuff.

This is interesting. I wonder if NO corp interest in science is allowed at all and truly is about core research?

http://womenandscience.rockefeller.edu/

Jeff Saturday / hazard / ICLEI has a bee in his bonnet about the UN / Rockefellers / New World Order lately. The Koch brothers are yesterday’s newz, dude.

If every time you type “Koch Brothers” earned you a penny, you would be the richest man in USA.

The only thing worse than Koch Brothers is Koch Fluffers and we have a few of them here on HBB.

If you look carefully at the Hall of Human Origins at the Smithsonian’s Natural History Museum, you can find a panel where climate change is called a good thing because the last time it happened, human brains got bigger. David Koch is the major funder.

you would be the richest man in USA.

Yeah, but the Kochtopus only funds fake grass roots that support their oligarchy, not that oppose it.

If possible, I will take a picture of that panel sometime this spring/summer and post it here.

Koch Fluffers and we have a few of them here on HBB.

Worse than Kich Fluffers are the lawyer goons who do virtually everything to make Kochs even richer.

“Jeff Saturday / hazard / ICLEI has a bee in his bonnet about the UN / Rockefellers / New World Order lately. The Koch brothers are yesterday’s newz, dude.”

You forgot UNKNOWN TENANT

You still don`t know about the Yello Brick Road to these topics do ya goon? For the fourth time…..

Do you want me to read the card?

Rent a truck” - Yeah because loading and unloading heavy items is so easy and many Americans can do it. Driving a big truck back and forth and paying not-low prices at HD/Lowes…. = lulz for days.
————————————–
Family Guy rent a truck skit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hYAUF832iU

I agree totally on people not seeing how their work will pay off. I envision a limited role for the government helping the economy (getting rid of most student loans and housing support) by lowering barriers, kind of like how catalysts (inorganic) or enzymes (organic) allow chemical reactions to take place in conditions where they would normally be slow. One example would be increasing the incentives for people to work as opposed to applying for or staying in SS Disability. Another example would be having the military actually perform some of the duties it used to, prior to the privatization of many routine functions (under both Clinton and Bush). A lot of those jobs were stable, blue collar technical jobs, both civilian and military. Now they are all contracted out, which actually costs us more but provides less job (instead, more money for lawyers and executives who manage the contracting process).

“One example would be increasing the incentives for people to work as opposed to applying for or staying in SS Disability.”

It is called a good-paying job.

leave job for a year to build a house? $150/sq ft

Pay massively inflated price for resale house? $200/sq ft

Give a contractor your plans for your new house? $60/sq ft.

Oh come on man, you’re just not ambitious enough. If you were, you could learn to frame, weld, roof, install cabinetry, install windows, install plumbing, tile, floor, sheetrock, paint, and also deal with the regulatory and legal aspects of building your very own house. And you could do it in a reasonable time frame and without making any mistakes that will cause the property insurance to deny coverage if anything happens in the future.

Go for it, azd00d said so!

If you were, you could learn to frame, weld, roof, install cabinetry, install windows, install plumbing, tile, floor, sheetrock, paint, and also deal with the regulatory and legal aspects of building your very own house.
That’s what my dad did before he built his house - but then that was his full-time job, working for architects, contractors on planning, execution & project inspection. Before dad was born, his father and uncle had built a row of houses in northern Michigan they quickly sold. Dad developed the many contacts which he later had do the special stuff, like excavation, well-drilling and earth-moving. He hired short-term help when he needed more hands, and came close to killing one of his teen-age employees when a rafter they were lining up on the framework suddenly rotated 180 degrees & hit the boy on the back of his head, stunning him. I never saw my dad as scared as he was then!
The house only took 9 years, as a part-time project. We kids lost any desire we might have had, to have a new house constructed.

The proper thing to do would be to work in the industries building a few houses, THEN try to build your own.

Also, do people still swing hammers? Pneumatic staple gun plz.

Joe, you forgot about the electricity, the thing most likely to kill you as you learn how to do it, other than rassle gators.

The proper thing to do would be to work in the industries building a few houses, THEN try to build your own.
It might be possible to learn a lot by volunteering with Habitat for Humanity. In my area they are branching out from building new homes to rehabbing older but serviceable homes. H4H is having to foreclose on too many people & is trying to cut the cost of housing by doing that. I’m not sure it would be possible if you had to pay the workers, but it might work otherwise. Various public agencies in Cleveland are turning over old houses to H4H for this.

Last year, Greater Cleveland Habitat was forced to file 15 foreclosure actions against tenants who had stopped making mortgage payments, according to John Habat, executive director of the local chapter.

The lower cost of rehab also makes it possible for the organization, in collaboration with community development corporations and the Cuyahoga land bank, to address a more ambitious agenda: renovating part of a block, not just building single homes.

The plan targets six vacant properties on Colfax Road in the Mount Pleasant neighborhood and another half dozen on Clement Avenue in Slavic Village.

The Mt. Pleasant NOW Development Corp. will sell the Colfax properties to Greater Cleveland Habitat for $15,000 each, Habat said.

The land bank already has donated two of the residences in Slavic Village to Greater Cleveland Habitat. The other four houses on Clement are going through tax foreclosure. Once they’ve been foreclosed, the land bank should get title to the properties, and will donate them, too, Habat said.

He cited $200,000 as the average cost for Habitat — which operates on a $2.5 million annual budget — to build a new home. The average cost of rehab is about $50,000.

Before dad was born, his father and uncle had built a row of houses in northern Michigan they quickly sold.
Grandpa built those houses without indoor plumbing. Years later he added it. We heard the story of how grandpa turned on the water pressure to his new plumbing system for the first time and saw water squirting in every possible direction from all the leaky connections. Dad was highly amused. Dad’s plumbing never leaked, and I was able to check this out 45 years after he installed it.

READ

Why you even suggest this is a trough, given the massive amount of temporary intervention in play to prop up housing prices?

The data is the data. When you look at the graph, you can pretty much draw a straight line through the low points for the troughs over the last 4 housing cycles.

The massive amount of intervention didn’t stop the fall in home prices, and prices right now are being anchored to a large extent by cash buyers, NOT people utilizing massive amounts of cheap leverage.

When prices were falling, many people didn’t want to utilize the cheap debt available because with leveraged purchases in a falling market, your down payment (no matter how small) is wiped out quickly. It took cash buyers acquiring homes based on their ability to generate rental income to provide the floor in the market (that capital flooded the market starting in Q1 2012), NOT low interest rates.

However, as I noted above, I fear that the massive amount of intervention COULD cause the next bubble in short order.

I know this is an unpopular view, but it’s what I see in the data.

Last point…now that it is becoming more common to believe that prices have stopped falling, it appears as though the leveraged buyer is back (multiple bids, etc.)–however, they are having a hard time competing with cash buyers, and there isn’t much for them to buy.

I think the statistic I saw recently was that 13% of people leaving apartments were doing so to buy homes…this is up from a recent reading of 10% (up 30%), I don’t know what the historic trendline looks like for this data. ISTR this was data reported by some apartment REITs.

I’m not talking about the absolute dollar amount, but the trend.

The TREND in Zestimate takes into consideration differences in home size/neighborhood of the homes that are sold in the market.

The TREND in median home prices does not.

Hey Rental Liar,

The TREND in median price is DOWN.

You liar.