The Housing Bubble

They only own half the duplex? I’m sure you are a good tenant, but that’s another potential problem for them down the line. One rough set of renters and the neighbors get pissed off = HOA problems.

P Bear, I think you’re really in the driver seat if they ever attempt to foist a rent increase on you. By not being able to have the sprinkler fixed and the lawn replanted (even under the possibility of a hefty HOA fine) your landlords have just shown you that they have no capacity to risk a bad tenant or a vacancy while seeking new tenants.

From what he said before, the entire sprinkler system was dug up, so all that grass is ripped up. During that time period, I think it’s reasonable to infer that much of the other grass has become patchy as well. So it would probably all have to be ripped out and entirely re-sodded.
Sod is tricky, it’s not as simple as lay it down and water it ocassionally. The top soil is probably not very good, it got all stirred up by the sprinkler issue, and in San Diego I’m guessing you’d want to water it 2x/day just to make sure for the first few weeks.

An HOA that hires a mgt service or law firm to enforce its code would pick up on this in a minute. (Usually the firm that policies the HOA gets a cut of the fine so they’re incentivized.) P Bear’s landlords just shouldn’t be landlords, but now they’re stuck and it will be great to hear P Bear’s anecdotes over the years.

No grass + no sprinklers + no rain + no soil = dry dirt and very scrawny rabbits

I’ve never seen such sad, scrawny looking critters as the hungry looking hares that hang around our gravel bed of a backyard.

Alpha, I guess we are lucky living in the land of plentiful rain.

It does seem that grass seed would be a cheap solution if the sprinkler works. What don’t we understand about CA growing conditions? Maybe PB doesn’t want to pay for the water?

To what handout are you referring? In your head?

The Tea Party group wants the IRS to pay them for the time it took to answer the extra questions on the tax exemption application.

Once you get to the lawsuit stage you may as well throw in the kitchen sink and see what sticks.

Assembly.

and that pesky little freedom of speech thingy.

AS far as I know, no one has ever successfully argued that not being tax exempt is a violation of freedom to assemble or freedom of speech. A delay in finding out that you qualify as a tax exempt would be an even harder argument. Lots, lots harder.

i don’t really expect anyone so incapsulated by their political bias to understand…it’s not unlike trying to discuss gay marriage rights with a member of the westboro baptist church.

We haven’t had a discussion yet. You just stated the rights you thought were violated. You didn’t explain how they were violated.

Sounds to me like the IRS got flooded with requests for tax-exempt status after the Citizen’s United case, and the Cincinnati IRS bureau used some politically tone-deaf guidelines for sorting out the requests. Time will tell if there’s more to this, I’m sure it will be investigated out the wazoo.

did i say we were having a discussion? oxide asked a question and i answered it.

You responded to my post by saying it was like having a discussion with someone from Westboro Baptist Church about gay marriage. That implies you thought we were having some sort of discussion. I still don’t understand how not having an application for tax exemption approved for some length of time is a violation of either the right to freedom of assembly or the right to freedom of speech.

The obvious question is: Why should a political organization get tax-exempt status?

it’s a fine line sometimes and i think mostly prohibitive toward political campaigning/elections and lobbying. that’s why it’s dangerous to specifically target groups that have the appearance of leaning one way or the other.

since the IRS aplogized i assume the scrutiny was disproportionate and worth further inquiry.

tin foil hat: it could be a ruse to distract from benghazi.

How about simple equal protection under the law clauses? Wouldn’t those be violated by singling out “politically oriented words” in the applications? If there is some disqualifying attribute, fine, but those organizations should be afforded the same protection of political speech as any other organization, and should not be singled out for a political view or belief.

Might be an equal protection question. I am not an expert in that clause at all. The jurisprudence under equal protection is very, very, very complicated. But freedom of assembly and freedom of speech? Not even close. Not even a hint of being close.

Not amusing to me, but further proof that too many people vote for “their side” regardless of the circumstances.

I don’t see that changing until there is a party the majority can stomach that actually stands up to power. Between the likelihood of it immediately being co-opted by power and the likelihood of the majority being idiots who never get behind anyone who actually wants to stand up to power, I’m not holding my breath.

Candidly, I don’t think it made a difference at all in the election, but the fact that a federal agency targeted one specific group to “inspect their papers” based on political leanings is, in my opinion, an atrocity.

Nixon had to resign in the wake of the Democratic headquarters break-in by his minions.

This could be one of the most powerful civilian arms of government being used to harass opposing private political groups.

That would be an epic undermining of the democratic process, much more than Republican and Democrat party operatives playing hardball with each other. Watergate was the professionals going head to head with each other. This is the professionals going after the Little League.

I occasionally hear about the Benghazi inquiry and it is a valiant attempt to gain political advantage out of, what I can gather, is a non-issue (”Politicians lie to make themselves look better? No kidding” and “Sh•t happens in war” pretty much sum it up). But this… could be huge.

The people are numb to being trampled. When one small offense is given a pass, the threshold for further abuse goes up. Over time, the abused will tolerate more and more without objection.

The list of abuses that have been posted on this blog over the past few years, if delivered all at once to an awake people, would produce a violent and ugly reaction.

The Nixon scandal would not make front page now.

That would be an epic undermining of the democratic process, much more than Republican and Democrat party operatives playing hardball with each other. Watergate was the professionals going head to head with each other. This is the professionals going after the Little League.

The proper name for the party is Democratic, not Democrat. That’s the term that one would use to describe a member of said party.

Be careful Slim. The insistance of properly spelling or pronouncing one’s name is a symptom of an abusive nature. I don’t think you have a thread of this in you, so let others beat that drum.

The insistance of properly spelling or pronouncing one’s name is a symptom of an abusive nature.

I have a last name that’s difficult to say and spell.

It’s not being abusive to point out the correct spelling and pronunciation if it’s done in a humorous way. And that’s how I handle the situation.

The proper name for the party is Democratic, not Democrat. That’s the term that one would use to describe a member of said party.

Slim, point taken. I thought it the party name was Democrat, and the “-ic” was added as pronunciation sugar. I’d never really thought about it. I’d regularly heard people refer to it as the Democrat party. But, I have been informed:

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/157244/Democratic-Party

and I do appreciate the new information!

The other party then must be the Republic party?

I’d regularly heard people refer to it as the Democrat party.

It’s a relatively recent right-wing thing. I have no idea what they think it accomplishes. I guess they’re implying that the party isn’t really ‘democratic’ or something.

I guess they’re implying that the party isn’t really ‘democratic’ or something.

No…out in flyover they’ve always referred to them as a group of people as “the Democrats”, and it’s only logical to then say “Democrat” as a singular version. May not be correct but that’s how they say it. No deeper meaning.

I grew up and live in flyover, and I only recently (last 5 or maybe 10 years) heard people refer to the party as the ‘Democrat’ party. I first started hearing it on Faux News.

Americans have to use the adjective –> noun word Republican to distinguish between Republican persons and Republics the government. Lincoln referred to Republicans as persons as early as 1859.

I don’t remember the Democrat party until Bush II, although it was probably used before then.

“Nixon had to resign in the wake of the Democratic headquarters break-in by his minions.”

Nixon didn’t want to send arms to Israel during the Yom Kippur war, and when he did the Arabs formed OPEC and reduced oil shipments thus setting to tone for the 70’s U.S. economy.

Nixon was a marked man waiting for a reason to be ousted.

Democratic party…..honestly isn’t it a false advertising? There’s nothing “democratic” about the democrats?

There’s nothing “democratic” about the democrats?

Is there anything “republican” about the Republicans?

Both the political arms of Wall Street and the corporate cartels.

“define priorities”

How about grouping the applicants by size, and taking a RANDOM sampling of each grouping for further investigation?

If this was a group of passengers getting onto a plane, and only people who looked Middle Eastern were pulled out of line for extra screening, civil rights groups would be screaming bloody murder.

“If this was a group of passengers getting onto a plane, and only people who looked Middle Eastern were pulled out of line for extra screening, civil rights groups would be screaming bloody murder.”

Exactly. It looks a lot like profiling. And from what I see, people from all political perspectives are outraged by it and expect it to be thoroughly investigated.

At this point, I don’t see evidence that it was either directed from the top or covered up by the White House. I think if Nixon had quickly come out and denounced the Watergate break in, he might have escaped political consequences.

Really? Who hired those people? Aren’t they responsible? This isn’t a complicated legal matter. Simple review by the public is showing abuse of power. Doesn’t this at MINIMUM show a lack of leadership and management on training employees on not using political discrimination in their federal jobs?

If there is failure here, where else is there failure? Who is being held accountable, in what way, and how will this be prevented in the future? Basically all I’ve seen at this point is, “sorry we messed up”, without a clear remediation plan.

“Who hired those people?”

As stated in the article (reworded, so not a direct quote).

Douglas H. Shulman, IRS Commissioner at the time, was appointed by Bush.

Perhaps Obama should have fired him immediately - on suspicion - assuming that as a Bush appointee he was either inept or corrupt. /snark off

According to Wikipedia, there are only 2 political appointees at the IRS. The rest would be Civil Service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_positions_filled_by_presidential_appointment_with_Senate_confirmation#Committee_on_Finance

“If there is failure here, where else is there failure? Who is being held accountable, in what way, and how will this be prevented in the future? “

Good questions. How much are you willing to spend to get to the bottom of this? Should the government do it or would you prefer an independent watchdog group funded privately by those with boatloads of money? Would the wealthy funders of a private watchdog group have your priorities?

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/05/13/Reports-IRS-scrutiny-was-broader-than-acknowledged/UPI-94681368432000/

“The audit follows complaints last year by numerous Tea Party and other conservative groups they had been singled out and subjected to extreme and improper questioning. Many groups say they were asked for donor lists and other sensitive information.”

There was nothing “quick” about getting to the bottom of this.

“The IRS said in a statement that acting Commissioner Steven Miller was first told by the agency staff on May 3, 2012, that some specific groups’ applications for tax-exempt status were improperly selected for extra scrutiny based on their names.”

From the WSJ.

Oh, and that Steven Miller guy? Obama’s appointment…wouldn’t want to uncover such a scandal during an election year, would we?

Thanks for the voice of reason, Happy.
Legal nuance isn’t the forte of the ideologically inclined.

Very interesting links. Thanks for posting, Happy.

Thanks, polly. That is what I was thinking. So that would be DHS.

ISTM that tariffs would be easier to collect and involve less intrusive monitoring of the population than the current IRS/income tax paradigm.

How large would tariffs have to be to fund the government? Would there be raw materials that we would exempt from tariffs - like rare earths?

You guys are on to something! Let’s levy tariffs at the border, and stop draining middle class households dry.

We’re not fooling ourselves. It IS better for students and for the public if we have more people able to produce more things. That’s the idea behind STEM: you build things.. real things, that real people use to make their lives better. Quantitatively speaking, (many of)the things engineers are producing are repeatedly saving people time and energy over and over. The coffee that English major baristas are producing is only keeping someone awake one cup at a time. Plus, the *good* arts majors are out there producing *good* art that is benefiting our culture. Lots of time the “good” artists aren’t even bothering with college in the first place.

The point is, it would be nice if we could afford to have a bunch of liberal arts students run around all day drawing pictures of butterflys. But that is what free time is for, and (much of) the rest of the population is sick of subsidising it with public funds generated from their hard work. They want a little more free time of their own.

the rest of the population is sick of subsidising it with public funds generated from their hard work. They want a little more free time of their own.

We subsidize liberal arts majors to draw pictures of butterflies? Where do I sign up?

” bunch of liberal arts students run around all day drawing pictures of butterflys”

No self-respecting art student would draw pictures of butterflies - unless they were dressed in drag and lugging an AR-15.

I am reminded of Ground Hog Day - “19th century French Literature? What a waste of time!”

Robotics, PLCs, etc. jobs don’t have huge demands AFAIK.

There’s not a lot of growth in the old school stuff, but I’m always surprised at how much of it still goes on. I’m amazed that in 2013 I still have to boot to DOS regularly for updating the BIOS on our motherboards and HBAs and such. I do it so much I’m starting to not be amazed any more. It’s just life. Had to find a bug in the hardware design of a power supply just last year…I didn’t know anybody anywhere ever made their own power supplies any more. And I hadn’t done EE work since college…it’s been all software. So that was…interesting.

We already pay for other people’s emergency room visits under our current system.

I think legal residents are required to pay taxes and file on their US income.

How will they enforce compliance for those who do not have income and are not required to file?

Why should I pay for someone else’s emergency room insurance?”

‘The hell with liberty and privacy as long as you’re satisfied. It’s your world, we’re just living in it’

What does this statement have to do with liberty and privacy?

It doesn’t matter really. We’re off the diving board with government insanity now so let’s pretend there’s enough water to break the fall.

The post I quoted was in response to an article about having to submit personal medical data to the IRS under Obamacare. The quoted line shows a common attitude that if it fixes MY problem, who cares how large of a microscope they imbed in my neighbor’s posterior.

The problem that will be “fixed” for Oxide and others like here was created by government when we moved from charitable clinics and hospitals to public subsidization of the indigent. We have government fixing another problem created by government.

I don’t like paying for the food of the obese on food stamps. What government program will help reduce my costs in that area? I could go on and on. Just my opinions.

don’t like mean, old, finger-wagging, scoldy GOP who want to take away their “gifts”.

If it was true that would have a GOOD thing. GOP will cut Grandma’s check by 50 dollars a month and spend on wars or bailing out the .1%ers.

Meet the Press | May 12, 2013
Issa: ‘This is a failure. We need to be investigating’

Congressman Darrell Issa talks about the roles played by former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and President Barack Obama in the Benghazi incident and the investigation.

Benghazi will remain thorn in Clinton’s side
By Douglas Turner | News Washington Columnist
May 13, 2013 - 12:01 AM, updated May 13, 2013 at 9:48 AM

WASHINGTON – The ad helped the junior senator from New York win 2008 Democratic presidential convention delegates in Texas but it will surely come back to test Hillary Clinton if she runs for president in 2016.

“It’s 3 a.m. and there’s a phone in the White House and it’s ringing,” a man growled over the image of a sleeping child. “Something’s happening in the world. Your vote will decide who answers that call. Whether it’s somebody who already knows the world’s leaders, knows the military, somebody who’s tested and ready to lead in a dangerous world.” Then a familiar voice said, “I’m Hillary Clinton and I approve this message.”
…

Obama and Hilary. The Leona Helmsley of our times.

This is SOP for the left.

When a scandal happens to one of their own, they turn it around to blame the other side OR set it up as “Republicans are only doing this for political reasons”.

That worked for a while with Benghazi. No more.

With the IRS, it’s hilarious watching hard core libs defend it. Sane liberals understand this is indefensible.

“what difference, at this point, does it make” - Hillary Clinton

at what point did it madam secretary and why?

Having a problems with the facts, Smithers?

He appears to be getting his from kochtopus web sites.

You think McCain would not have started another war in the Middle East? Would the Tea Party have been coopted by the Democratic party?

Romney would have prosecuted bankers? With Republicans in control of the House?

By themselves republicans would have been as bad as Obama. I was thinking may be democrats would have grown some spine when in opposition.

May be you are right….Democrats are neither good at governance nor at opposition. Pretty useless bunch, what was I thinking?

I was thinking may be democrats would have grown some spine when in opposition.

But then wouldn’t the right be screaming that the Dems were hypocrites? I believe the “opposition” to O-care is this exact thing in reverse.

I’m convinced Repubs aren’t really opposed to O-care, they’re just pizzed they didn’t get there to give insurance companies the handout first. Had Romney come into popularity instead of McCain and won in 2008, they would have.

Houses are depreciating assets, not “investments”.

land is not a depreciating asset.

You said houses.

And so what of land? It’s cheap at $500 an acre and there is a globe full of it.

Besides, land is a loss due to taxes.

you cant have a house without land right?

Its sure is funny that the tax man doesnt see a house as a depreciating asset.

Land is a loss at current grossly inflated asking prices and housing depreciates. The losses are magnified by property taxes. Besides, there is a globe full of land and 95% of it goes undeveloped.

Your point?

stocks and homes will take you to the glory land

azdude,

HA uses depreciating (a technical accounting term for the amount of money you can claim to have “lost” in a particular year on a business asset because that asset will eventually have to be replaced) as a synonym for deteriorating (a common language term for the fact that stuff that isn’t maintained properly and is subject to wind and weather will fall apart someday). The fact that he doesn’t know the difference doesn’t mean you have to play along with him.

Just wait until India gets the hang of installing a few solar panels and broadband with Skype in its undeveloped rural areas. Companies won’t have to pay those pesky employees a salary to buy an apartment in Mumbai or Delhi. The workers can do no-benefit freelance piecework from their shacks on their $6/acre of land, paid per the phone call or per line of code. When the worker dies for lack of a sewage system and health care, the employer can just send a thug to move the solar panel and laptop to the next shack.

Capitalism at its best.

Did a little Appu brake your heart in college? I hear alot of anti-india sentiments from you.

you cant have a house without land right?

No. But you can have a “home” without land. It’s called a high-rise condo. Or, in oxide parlance: a fʊck!ng floating box of air. Near the Metro stations, they’re “making more land” all the time. Realtors® use the word “home” to cover condos, and to conjure up visions of cookies and Thomas Kinkade.

Interestingly, immigrants — I’ve heard of Chinese and Somalis, and I guess Latin — have no interest in condos. They want actual terra.

I’ve heard of Chinese and Somalis, and I guess Latin — have no interest in condos. They want actual terra.

Until they actually own one….most foreigners have no concept of what it takes to maintain lawns & backyards.

Houses depreciate ALWAYS like ALL man made items.

Get over that fact and get on with your life.

No, honey. They always deteriorate and therefore have to be repaired and maintained. Only businesses worry about “depreciation.” People who own houses so they can live in them don’t worry about technical business accounting rules.

Houses depreciate ALWAYS. Like ALL manmade items. They always have and always will.

When we’re talking about Bubble Era houses, we’re largely talking about 2500+ sq ft. Many are 3500+ sq ft behemoths. Most of what people are paying for with these houses is a ton air (space) that is either a) never used or b) used to store trinkets. These houses are largely owned by boomers or Gen Y who are or will be empty nesters in the coming decade. Sorry, but I can’t see a house as an investment *any* way you argue it. Depreciation… deterioration… polly’s right on the definition but RAL captures the bigger point. These houses are almost always ego-stroking wastes of space and become very hard to maintain over time. I wouldn’t call it either of the “D” words, I’d call it waste.

ALL houses depreciate. ALL buildings depreciate like ALL manmade items.

Countries that don’t allow furriners to own land will sometimes let expats buy a house but they have to lease the land it sits on. Sounds awfully risky.

most foreigners have no concept of what it takes to maintain lawns & backyards.

LOL. Say what?

“most foreigners have no concept of what it takes to maintain lawns & backyards.”

You’ve obviously never been to a foreign land.

Joe,

RAL is using the misleading language to imply that all houses (even if lived in and maintained) would be able to be purchased for $0 within an owner’s lifetime. He is simply wrong. The land is worth something in many places. His company putting up a prefab shack for a lot less money 30 miles from a location with a few jobs, doesn’t change the fact that a chance to live in a place very close to lots of good jobs, with good schools and other services plus whatever else a decent number of people value (cultural activies, ski mountains, hiking, other) has value that doesn’t go away unless the area falls apart. That can happen. But it doesn’t happen always. It certainly doesn’t happen always within an individual’s lifetime.

polly, I said that I think your terminology is more correct but am agreeing with RAL that there is a need to describe a loss of value over time. IMO, especially for houses built since the 80s and 90s, I think we could sum the issue up as waste or misplaced priorities. A SFH really isn’t a productive asset, yet deterioration doesn’t really capture it. I think even if you do maintain the house, it should not hold up in value over time given the realities of the market. Declining family size, baby boomer retirements, wage stagnation, plentiful land in outer suburbs, college loan debt among the young, etc.

“The land is worth something”

Yes it is Junkie…… but not much…… and not nearly enough to get you to the massively inflated price you paid.

And yes…. land prices COLLAPSE very quickly.

I disagree. I think that depreciation is just about the worst word you can use to describe a complex societal transition from people who grew up when college was cheap, the US (and a very few other first world countries) were the only places to manufacture high quality goods, etc. to the society we have today. And his insistance on using the words “always” and “everywhere” is even worse. The only way that “always” or “everywhere” is appropriate is if you are talking about physical condition. And physical condition is best described by “deteriorate.” Depreciate isn’t even close.

But then, if he didn’t inappropriately use that term, his instistance that his company is selling houses for $60 a square foot anywhere you could want to live and no one should ever pay more than that, sounds silly. Because, of course, his company’s houses are going to deteriorate too. Might even deteriorate faster than well built older houses.

his instistance that his company is selling houses for $60 a square foot

So what’s his ruse then? Someone who works in the RE industrial complex who is also obsessed with informing the world not to buy a house?

Because it’s the appropriate nomenclature to describe what happens when dimensional materials are arranged, assembled and installed to form a new end product. The depreciation begins the day it is completed irrespective of whether we own it or turn it over to the customer. When we build something, we’re required to deliver it in new condition irrespective of the depreciation that occurs during construction. We have to go back in and make it brand new years after we’ve constructed it because?????????? It depreciated while it was in our custody! That depreciation costs us money. ALOT of money. Are you really that deluded to think that the depreciation magically suspends the minute we receive a letter of substantial completion from the owner?

You know what the problem is here? You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Houses depreciate. Roads depreciate. Structures depreciate. They always have, they always will.

Comment by sfhomowner

Junkie….. How much did you pay for your debt-dump?

“The depreciation begins the day it is completed irrespective of whether we own it or turn it over to the customer”

And, sfhomeowner, that is your answer. He is talking his book. Just like all the people/organizations that are scorned in this blog for talking their book. No reason to pay any attention to a person who can’t even get the words right. It depreciates from the moment it is completed because it is owned by a business. Though I have to admit, I don’t even think you are supposed to use depreciation in the accounting you use on inventory, so it would probably be the wrong term even for that. The deterioration that he says has to be remediated before they turn something over to a customer, is, of course, easily understood.

Nice try Junkie…. No ringer.

It depreciates irrespective of who owns it. ALWAYS.

Polly,

Are you saying deterioration does not cause depreciation? If it is a causal relationship, then I think you can skip the middle term (deterioration) and go straight to depreciation with its implied loss of monetary value. In fact, depreciation might be more accurate as non-man made things can deteriorate without depreciation, whereas depreciation implies the loss of man-hour value put into the construction of the object.

If a house is in bad shape, it will be worth less than it was before *all other things being equal*. But sometimes, not all other things are equal. Sometimes the location has improved so the value of the land plus the house is higher even if the condition of the house is a bit worse. Sometimes the owner spends money to fix up the physical deterioration. That means that the house itself may not have lost value at all even though HA’s extreme phraseology demands that to be true.

Look. I have friends who have a big house on Long Island. There is a giant room in their basement that is used as a home office. I presume they are depreciating that portion of the house on their taxes. No reason why they shouldn’t since he runs his business out of that space. But it has nothing to do with the physical condition. It is accounting. Same thing for the friend who bought a place in Park Slope about 15 years ago. She certainly was taking depreciation on the two apartments she rented out, but didn’t on the one she lived in. It isn’t used just for taxes. The concept is also used in financial statements to value the assets of businesses, though the rules are a little different. And it is very easy for a building to be depreciated to zero for tax or financial statement purposes and be worth lots, lots more than zero if you tried to sell them.

Depreciation is not about the fact that the interior will rot and get moldy if you don’t fix the roof. It is an accounting term about the treatment of capital assets. Are the two terms sometimes related? Yeah, sometimes. But in general, they are different words for different concepts. My parents paid $19K for a house. It wasn’t new when they bought it. They put some money into repairs and some time and sweat equity into maintenance, but not that much. At the end of about 35 years, they sold it for around $250K. There are plenty of places where that progression happened. Was most of it due to inflation? You bet. But HA doesn’t even allow for that to part of his formula. He just equates wear and tear with being able to sell it for less, every single time and for anything made by a human. He’s wrong.

He just equates wear and tear with being able to sell it for less, every single time and for anything made by a human. He’s wrong.

BUT HE SAYS IT IN ALL CAPS SO IT MUST BE TRUE, DEBT PUSHER!

“It is an accounting term”

Really? A word developed and trademarked by IFAC themselves? Or FASB? Or the IRS?

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Look Junkie….. you can be “right” all you want. The truth is houses depreciate ALWAYS like ALL manmade items.

Get over it and get on with your life.

Depreciation is the accounting term used to estimate the loss of value over time. However, this is not the same as deterioration. A building may have an estimated 20 year lifespan and accounting would depreciate the value each year. At the end of the 20 years, the building is valued at zero according to the accountants, but may still be standing. It has not deteriorated enough to be zero value.

Cap rates are negative at current massively inflated asking prices of resale housing.

You better get to work to refute it. Have fun.

Ah, that is rough because the house itself looks nice and is a good size. Overpriced of course. Especially with what you say about the pitbulls.

Maryland declared pitbulls to be per se dangerous, meaning that insurance would no longer cover pitbull related problems. It would also make people with pit bulls unable to live in public housing. I think the legislation is currently on hold, I’ll have to look into it. I personally think it would be a great idea, I feel bad for pitbulls, but the people who tend to own most of them tend to be the least responsible and worst pet owners. (Not all by any means, but a solid majority.)

Maryland declared pitbulls to be per se dangerous, meaning that insurance would no longer cover pitbull related problems. It would also make people with pit bulls unable to live in public housing. I think the legislation is currently on hold, I’ll have to look into it. I personally think it would be a great idea, I feel bad for pitbulls, but the people who tend to own most of them tend to be the least responsible and worst pet owners. (Not all by any means, but a solid majority.)

The legislation died in the last session. Meaning that the Maryland Court of Appeals decision in Tracey v. Solesky stands. Meaning that pit bulls are inherently dangerous.

And I don’t feel the least bit bad for pit bulls. They were — and are — bred to fight and kill. It’s time for them to become extinct.

What I meant was that it’s a shame that these dogs were bred that way and really had no choice in the matter. I put the blame on humans. I do think it would be good if the breed was phased out, but am skeptical it could work. There are people with nothing to lose who will still keep pit bulls.

They were — and are — bred to fight and kill. It’s time for them to become extinct.

Not true. They were the family dog of choice for many decades.

When a dog becomes popular with criminals and gangsters, it get overbred, and aggressive dogs are allowed/encouraged to breed.

Right now a good majority of dogs in shelters are pitbulls. There are just too many of them, overall.

But the same thing happened previously with Rottweilers and German Shepherds.

Pitbulls are just about the lousiest watch dogs, of all breeds. They’ll welcome in the robber and show them where all the loot is, usually after licking them and rolling onto their bellies.

And that’s why pitbulls need to be mass euthanized.

Not true. They were the family dog of choice for many decades.

Was the dog in “Little Rascals” a pit bull?

So these new pit bulls aren’t your grandfather’s pit bull. Does it matter what they “used to” be if they have been bred to be dangerous now?

Is there a DNA test to distinguish between a “good” pit bull and and “bad” pit bull?

Is there a DNA test to distinguish between a “good” pit bull and and “bad” pit bull?

Or any other breed?

Is there a DNA test to distinguish between a “good” pit bull and and “bad” pit bull?

Or any other breed?

Just look in the eyes. Eyes are windows to the soul.

“Pitbulls are just about the lousiest watch dogs, of all breeds. They’ll welcome in the robber and show them where all the loot is, usually after licking them and rolling onto their bellies.”

Easy to see that you’ve never been to Modesto, CA. A friend, who is on the bad side of town, and I walked to the liqueur store one evening. Seems like every other house has a pit-bull “holding down the fort.” They can hear a piece of gravel move, and that’s all it takes. Great watchdogs.

If any large, powerful breed is overbred and adopted by thugs and gangs as “their” breed, it will, over time, become a menace.

But there are other breeds that are far more aggressive and dangerous than pitbulls: German Shepherds, Rotties, Chow Chows, Dobermans are high up on that list.

Pit bulls are more known for canine aggression, rather than aggression towards people.

And the most aggressive breed of all: cocker spaniels and daschunds.

The problem is the sheer numbers of pitbulls. Especially unneutered pitbulls. ASPCA: approximately 92% of fatal dog attacks involved male dogs, 94% of which were not neutered. A chained up dog is almost 3X more likely to bite.

Lousy watchdogs, great watchdogs.

I think it depends on who’s telling the anecdote. As one who grew up with dogs, I’ve never been intimidated by any dog. The only time I’ve thought twice about confronting a dog was when I tried to shoo a loose pit bull off my lawn and it stood its ground and gave me a look that signified that I might just want to back the eff up.

OTOH, an acquaintance’s pit bull would roll over and practically wet itself when someone would come to the house…

Show me the approvals. And the sales to the secondary market, or confirmation that the bank is retaining the whole subprime no-doc loan themselves.

Not some website or flyer in the mail where I can “apply” and “be contacted” by a broker.

APPROVALS and CLOSINGS.

Junkie,

Go to the lender and ask them. Do something for yourself. Anything.

Housing = government

Government = housing

AND SOON (and don’t overlook):

Government = healthcare

Healthcare = government

And their agents are right here on this blog lying to the public about housing.

policed by one world army

If it’s all one government, what would you need an army for? Just civilian police should be sufficient, shouldn’t they? Unless it’s not exactly a voluntary union…

Is Obama’s DHS an “army” or a civilian police force?

Did the city-wide lockdown of Boston last month look very “civilian” to you?

Brzezinski with Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan

Brezinski was deeply involved in the U.S. aspects to support Osama Bin Laden against the Russians in Afghanistan. Pakistan was the base of operations against the Russians in support of the Mujahadeen. Simultaneous to this time Brezinski is in Pakistan / Afghanistan, so is John Brennan as part of his CIA duty.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/01/10/john-brennan-the-cia-zibgnew-brezinski-columbia-university-and-obama/ - 193k -

You google these peoples names connected with the Berg and it just leads from one cool thing to another. Everyone is on some board of some huge bank or corp. or running a country or an intelligence agency somewhere.

John Brennan Involved in Drafting Benghazi Talking Points – He is the Dirty One

Friday, May 10, 2013 14:34

By Paul Scicchitano

CIA nominee, John Brennan, whose nomination is expected to come to a vote in the Senate on Thursday, was involved in drafting the talking points used by U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice in the wake of the 2012 Benghazi attack, Republican lawmakers charged.

“Brennan was involved,” Senate Intelligence Committee Vice-Chairman Saxby Chambliss of Georgia told The Hill on Tuesday. “It’s pretty obvious what happened.”

The White House has stonewalled efforts to find out who was responsible for the talking points immediately following the Sept. 11 attack that claimed the life of U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other Americans.

“At the end of the day it should have been pretty easy to determine who made the changes and what changes were made,” added Chambliss.

Republican lawmakers have charged that Rice’s talking points were deliberately watered down and provided an inaccurate account of what really happened when delivered on Sunday talk shows in the final weeks prior to the November presidential election.

While Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein, who chairs the Senate Intelligence Committee, had tried to position Brennan’s involvement as “small,” a number of GOP lawmakers appear still not convinced after viewing intelligence documents made available to the committee.

http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2013/05/john-brennan-involved-in-drafting-benghazi-talking-points-he-is-the-dirty-one-2639126.html - 25k -

“By means of mind control”?

Eric Holder: We Need To Brainwash People Against GUNS. Speech …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-FMausVZKA - 221k -

Is Obama’s DHS an “army” or a civilian police force?

A better description would be a motley collection of federal agencies.

Also, a great thing about Zbigniew Brzezinski is that cool accent he has. He sounds like a villain in a James Bond movie.

a great thing about Zbigniew Brzezinski is that cool accent he has.
Just say “Zbigniew Brzezinski” in an approximately correct way & you will sound like a villain.

This house has been in foreclosure for a couple of years, but is now on the market.

So why is the bank finally getting around to listing it now?

The bubble is back.

Check out the pictures. wow. Trashed. 386K and cash only. A regular bargain.

Junkie,

You can ask $50k for your 5 year old Toyota Corolla but when there are no buyers, it’s not going to sell.

The 5th picture shows a crate of books with a copy of Rich Dad Poor Dad.

I’ll keep you posted. It’ll sell. And then get a quick rehab and get flipped and sell for 600K.

Junkie,

We don’t need you to “keep us posted”. There isn’t a house on the planet worth 600k so you’re already in fantasy land.

Things are “worth” what people are willing to pay.

Sales for the past 3 months in the city: http://www.redfin.com/homes-for-sale#!disp_mode=M&market=sanfrancisco&region_id=17151&region_type=6&sf=&sold_within_days=90&v=8

People aren’t “paying”. A few suckers and junkies like you are borrowing massive amounts to buy depreciating shacks from which you’ll never recover financially.

What did you pay for your debt dump?

The house I posted was a CASH ONLY sale. So yes, people are paying.

Junkie…. it’s still for sale. Nobody is buying it. Not here either.

Did you really pay such an inflated amount that you’re that ashamed to disclose?

My God.

Between 400-450K for a 3/2 SFH with a view and a front and back yard.

PITI = less than 2K month.

Go ahead and do a search on craigslist and find me a similar place to rent in The Mission/Bernal Heights for less. (94110 zip code, to be exact)

Oh yeah, find me a place that allows dogs. Find me a 3 bedroom in 94110 for under $2400 that will rent to a family with 2 kids and a 95 pound Rottweiler.

Junkie,

It’s still for sale with no buyer in sight.

Just how inflated was the price you paid for you depreciating shack to be so ashamed and embarrassed?

Tenants don’t pay property taxes. They never have nor will they ever.

Only an idiot, undercapitalized hobbyist sort of landlord* would be unable to pass along property taxes to the tenants.

* usually also happens to be the type of amateur landlord who bought at the top of the housing bubble

“Tenants don’t pay property taxes. They never have nor will they ever.”

Your right. They don’t pay property taxes. They pay rent. And rent is more than property taxes.

I have to school you too?

Landlord expenses aren’t automatic passthrough to tenants.

I know, which is why I said renters don’t pay property taxes.

However, I find it nearly impossible that rent would ever be less than property taxes.

With a property tax rate of 1% (California), that would mean that homes sell for more than 1200x monthly rent.

2% rate? 600x monthly rent.

4% rate? 300x monthly rent.

Cash flow is negative at current massively inflated asking prices of resale housing.

So no….. the property tax burden falls on the borrower, not the tenant. As is the maintenance costs.

“Tenants don’t pay property taxes. They never have nor will they ever.”

You can’t be this dense.

Now Slithers….. are you really going to continue with your charade?

Property taxes in San Francisco are 1.1% of assessed value.

A 500K house would cost $5500 per year in property taxes.

Typical rent on a 2 bedroom in the city (not Daly City, not So SF) is no less than $2500 month. Usually more. 30,000 per year in rent.

Rent is determined by what people can and will pay. Property tax is irrelevant.

Exactly.

“Rent is determined by what people can and will pay. Property tax is irrelevant.”

Technically, you are correct.

However, practically, if rent didn’t cover property taxes, people wouldn’t own rental property (decreasing the available inventory of rental property until rents rose to a level where rents at least exceeded property taxes). And since they do, it is pretty safe to assume that in the vast majority of cases, rent paid exceeds property taxes.

The old “Sure Thing/Can’t Lose” Lie.

How many times are you going to foist that lie on the public?

They will move in, and in a few years, do a mid-high 5-figure, low-six figure renovation. That does not help their net worth and degrades any lifetime net monetary benefit of owning versus renting.

Also don’t forget other expenses; new expensive furniture sets and chinas to go with them; flat screen tvs in each room, killer sound system; a mancave and some “manly” toys.
I have seen these with all of my friends who bought houses.

So, as I’ve noted before, PITI really should be PITI+M(aintenance).

And the M is alway grossly understated. Worse yet….. M is 2x the cost of new construction.

Yes. It’s where people of the same race, same wealth bracket and same ideology campaign briskly in favor of “diversity” and “going green”.

See, it’s okay if they destroy the environment and keep others out.

No wonder they despise southern redneck teabillies.

For your typical Boulderite, contemplating a teabilly is not unlike looking in a mirror.

Like a good teabilly, a good Boulderite also reserves the right to destroy the envionment their way and while keeping “them” out.

If you can overlook the armpit hair and scent of patchouli, the women in Boulder are pretty hot. And they stay hot from exercise, not plastic surgery.

The premium price is paid solely in support of the residents’ sense of self.

Plenty of neurotic individuals pay lots of money to support their fragile egos. Without such artifice, they’d fall down.

Those are the people who flock to Boulder. Those that need to prove to other neurotics that “they’ve made it” and are “educated” and “enlightened”.

You’re from Colorado. You know the drill. Nearly everyone in Colorado rolls their eyes whenever Boulder comes up in conversation. The People’s Republic of Boulder is laughed at by millions out there.

I can’t imagine paying a steep price to live in a place where everyone is the same. What a boring existence.

All of that may be true. But I have been pleasantly surprised by a few things in Boulder. Especially the bike paths.

Bike paths? Commie talk!

I know, right?

There are many locales across this country with miles of bike paths.

Many of those places are nicer, more laid back and more fun than Boulder.

Being in Boulder is like being imprisoned, what with the Invasion of the Body Snatchers types you meet.

There are many places in Colorado more beautiful than Boulder. And in those places, there are bike paths and the people are normal.

There are many locales across this country with miles of bike paths.

I’m still trying to think of a conservative town or city that has a good network of bike trails.

There are many locales across this country with miles of bike paths.

Really? Following the streams and going under the streets? I’ve never seen that anywhere else.

There are many places in Colorado more beautiful than Boulder. And in those places, there are bike paths and the people are normal.

I grew up in the Rockies. Once you’re above a certain threshold it all looks good to me.

Following the streams and going under the streets? I’ve never seen that anywhere else.

Austin. Their bike trails are great, but it sounds like Boulder’s are similar. It’s an amazing expansion of your personal freedom to be able to bike almost anywhere in town on trails that are for the most part safe and separate from traffic.

Don’t people everywhere want a nasty, dirty, low quality town?

Geez, I really am getting old!

I agree that quality and taste are criminally underrated in America.

Especially in Boulder. There are few quality people there. Lots of hypocritical self-righteous snobs, though.

If that’s your definition of “quality” and “taste” go for it.

It doesn’t happen to be mine.

I didn’t mean Boulder in particular (I’ve never been there). I mean that what a city/town should do, IMO, is cater to the people who live there, who grew up there, who want to be there. Not try to poach McJobs by handing out sweetheart deals (corporate welfare). Not by zany zoning (or no zoning at all, Houston-style). Not by deregulating itself, nor over-regulating itself. The city should be responsive to what people really want, rather than chasing the shiny ideal of “growth” pushed by outside interests or special interests.

Then you need to move to the Midwest and start looking at old towns located on still operable passenger rail lines.

There are many, many such places. Some will have a WalMart on the outskirts of town; a good number will have their own downtowns.

Most are not inhabited by the wealthy.

The problem with midwest, December/January/Febuary can be brutal.

People’s fear of a couple months of cold (I know, there are a few places where it’s worse) is being used to scare them into putting the chains on themselves. It’s not that bad, just put a coat on. It’s a hot humid summer of bugs that I can’t stand.

I must be the only one in the world who loves hot and humid. I agree bugs are nasty.

I like having all four seasons, but I like winter the least of the four. But without a real winter, where things freeze and go dormant, you don’t get a real fall or spring, which are the nicest seasons, IMO.

I must be the only one in the world who loves hot and humid.

I don’t know…I met a lot of people in the army that were fine with it. But if you grow up in a generally cool dry climate, only sweating on special occasions, drippy sweat anytime you are outside is really annoying. Maybe a touch of OCD or a sensory issue on my part?

Yes, and sometimes employers provide.

This isn’t about us Junkie.

You’re ashamed and embarrassed aren’t you…..

This isn’t about us Junkie.

For someone who posts here as often and as vehemently as you do, yes, it is about you.

What is your ruse? Why are you afraid to tell the truth about why you care so much about other people’s choices?

sf,

I’ve got pretty much the whole story on this guy.

He works for a company that builds bridges but not houses, although they’ve done enough research to know they can build a house anywhere in the US for $50/square foot.

He has two residences. Most of the time he lives in mommy’s basement and doesn’t pay rent, but he spends his summers under a bridge. What else would you expect for a bridge building troll? No need to buy or rent when you’ve got a sweet deal like that.

As for why he gets angry when people buy houses, just brush up on your Freud and it’ll all be clear.

Now you don’t need to ask him any more questions.

No Debt Junkie…. It’s all about you and your pimping housing on a blog about the housing bubble.

How inflated was the price you paid for a rapidly depreciating shack that you’re so ashamed and embarrassed to disclose?

With the hosing everyone is taking on housing in Chicago, this isn’t a surprise.

We are visiting family in Lake Forest next month. Was hoping we could go out to Applebee’s, but since they’re closed we’ll just have to go to Onwentsia instead.

Gee, Goon. I feel your pain.
Wait…there was an Applebee’s in Lake Forest? !

Can’t find an Applebees… go to Bennigans.

I don’t have any drawings of bridges I want built. Sorry, but you don’t have any applicable skills.

In fact you don’t have much at all. You coward.

Carl:

I live near a mountain that used be white on top all the time. It is now white on top sometimes. Old-timers agree that global warming is upon us.

PS
I have a biology degree. I took a few classes on the topic, and I have seen the data.

I have seen the data

You haven’t seen sh*t. Go refresh the Drudge Report and get the TRUTH.

“I live near a mountain that used be white on top all the time. It is now white on top sometimes.”

Beer me.

Fat Tire.

I live near a mountain that used be white on top all the time. It is now white on top sometimes. Old-timers agree that global warming is upon us.

PS
I have a biology degree. I took a few classes on the topic, and I have seen the data.

The point I was trying to make is that the serious people on the subject want us to think in very long terms. The short term observations a person can make in their lifetime is just weather. I live near a very visible peak that used to be white into mid summer more often, now less often. But it’s very white again this year. Weather varies from year to year.

The reason I bring it up is because people who are skeptical of global warming also sometimes make weather-based statements and get made fun of for it. But people who do it in support of climate change arguments get a free pass.

But he bought a 2 year old house in florida for $40/sq foot didn’t he? Yup.

Really? Where are these houses to be found in Florida?

Junkie,

Why don’t you ask him?

Routine and purpose?

+1. I have far too many interests to understand those who say they’d be bored in retirement, especially at age 40. Volunteering, cycling, windsurfing, kayaking, snowboarding, taking classes, etc. (even taking care of properties would get you outside and keep you physically active…)

I do see Joe’s point, however. At $209k, if it’s not causing stress/health problems, why not set a date and stick around another 3-5 years and save another $300k or so?

BTW, what is Jeff doing at age 40 to make $209k?

McAnus!

Exactly MV.

Exactly.

And cars and houses depreciate.

I don’t see why this truth enrages everyone.

Dude, everyone here agrees with you that cars and houses depreciate.

And no one is particularly enraged insane except you.

Debt Junkie…. you’re ashamed for getting suckered into paying a massively inflated price for a rapidly depreciating asset. And you should be.