The Housing Bubble

You overpaid for a run down shanty you could have rented for half the cost.

Why did you do that?

You’re foaming at the mouth again.

After all of this time I would think you knew; he has nothing to offer.

And yet, after two months of searching, they haven’t found a thing

True for anyone trying to rent here. The rental market is insane. Had we a decent place with rent control and a sane landlord, we never would have bought.

Renting with kids and dogs is hellish, at best. A very quick search on craigslist san franciso “housing/apts” will give anyone sticker shock.

And yet, the bubble is back and roaring, so buying right now is ridiculous.

Thanks to HBB, I think we timed it okay. As many of you know, I’ve been on this blog since, I dunno, 2006?

We could have bought in 2009 for less, but with double the interest rate. 3.5% I can live with for a long time.

Truth be told, I am crazy happy with our house. I have never seen a house like it, anywhere, and the garden is mature and beautiful, with an apple, plum, palms, and redwood tree. Ferns, bulbs, flowers popping up now that it is spring/summer. Every morning I go out back and sit in the garden and have my coffee and watch the hummingbirds.

Still have yet to see any fairies, though.

Housing,

Courage of your convictions time. My niece and her husband have both scored post-MBA jobs in San Francisco proper and are looking for a 1-2/1 house or apt where they can have their 2 dogs. According to you they should be able to find something reasonably close-in for less than sfhomowner’s 2K/month mortgage. And yet, after two months of searching, they haven’t found a thing.

——————————————————

I’ve refrained from calling you out as a clueless dope but I’m getting to have my doubts.

What you’re doing here is a hypothetical to substantiate a sick womans charade. Do you really think this shameless womans claim(essentially a charade) has any truth at all to it? Youve been around here long enough and you know precisely whats going on with housing. I know that making a fool out of her like giggling at the Down syndrome kid but what we’re talking here is a bit more than that.

You have a nose for BS. Use it.

“Truth be told, I am crazy happy with our house. I have never seen a house like it, anywhere, and the garden is mature and beautiful, with an apple, plum, palms, and redwood tree. Ferns, bulbs, flowers popping up now that it is spring/summer. Every morning I go out back and sit in the garden and have my coffee and watch the hummingbirds.

Still have yet to see any fairies, though.”

Sounds lovely. I too am enjoying my garden. You might not see any fairies if a termite treatment was part of the buying process.

Your carrying costs are double what you claim.

You’re so neck deep financially that any financial truth is like kryponite. You’re a sick sick woman.

Sure we did. We posted the link with hundreds of rentals. Hundreds of rentals that are a fraction of that unstable woman’s costs.

You just don’t like the fact that she’s lying about her carrying costs.

You just don’t like the fact that she’s lying about her carrying costs.

That makes no sense. I’m defending her math because the math jibes. Why would I defend her math if I did not “like the fact that she’s lying about her carrying costs.”

So I’m supporting her math because I don’t like the fact that she’s “lying about her math”?

So again:
What other cost can be added to her PITI and maintenance (which is less than renting) that would be a cost that one would not also accrue by renting?

Seriously, Housing, where’s the link? I didn’t see it the first time and I need it.

Thanks.

“her math jibes”? LOL

And were supposed to believe a known LIAR like you too?

You fraudsters and your ruses are hilarious.

“And were supposed to believe a known LIAR like you..?”
Housing Analyst’s psychiatric intervention team, June, 2013

Was asking nicely. Sheesh.

Interesting. The quote you referenced didn’t post even though you commented on it. Which suggests two things:

You removed it
You are moderating

I wasn’t talking to you but I will…

Do you really need your hand held on this? With hundreds of rentals, beautiful places, all across the bay area for a fraction of what that we really know are that unstables woman’s carrying costs…. not her fantasy carrying costs.

Do you? Really?

Sure we did. We posted the link with hundreds of rentals. Hundreds of rentals

I don’t need hundreds. Actually, just give me one. Humor me and give me a link TODAY.

Again, go to craigslist San Francisco and find me a 1400 sq. ft. 3/2 rental with a yard that allows dogs.

I’d even be happy with a 2/1 SFH less than 1400 sq. ft.

Any neighborhood in SF, excluding Vis Valley and Bayview (too far and I don’t want my kids to have to wear bullet-proof jackets.)

HUNDREDS of rentals.

You just can’t get honest about your costs so of course you duck and weave from them.

“Bay Area” is not SF.

I believe Analyeast was responding to this:

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-05-21 11:07:20

You just don’t like the fact that she’s lying about her carrying costs.

That makes no sense. I’m defending her math because the math jibes.

HA doesn’t care about neighborhoods or commutes. That is because he is in the selling side of the housing business. He isn’t thinking about a place to live. Just a place where someone else (who doesn’t have your priorities or preferences or job or family or whatever) might be willing to buy or rent a house.

When my parents bought the house I grew up in, they really wanted to buy a lot that was closer to the center of town, closer to where my grandparents and aunts lived, closer to the lake, walking distance to more schools etc. But the cost of that lot was the same as the cost of the completed house that they could barely afford. These places were less than two miles apart. The value of the location was that different and this was in the 60s. He doesn’t even recognize that there is a legit difference in value of location between the Woodmont Triangle neightborhood of Bethesda, Maryland and being 20 miles from Albany.

Is is kind of sad.

Hey Lawyer,

Your “it’s the lot!” routine doesn’t get you any closer to your rationalized fantasy asking prices than your other excuses.

Surely you can come up with another fraudulent reason to perpetrate on the unsuspecting public.

Lets hear it.

You removed it
You are moderating

Is housing analyst really Ben?

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-05-21 12:33:51
I wasn’t talking to you but I will…

Now it appears my original post is back you’ve edited it to remove the phrase “her math jibes”. Yet since you scoff at the phrase here:

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-05-21 12:11:55
“her math jibes”? LOL

and a quick search reveals that’s the only “her math jibes” in today’s posts, could you tell us what other post you might have been referencing?

Oh what a tangled web we weave….

Joining the Liars Club are we? Here’s the yarn….. get your needles…… but do clean them up the best you can as you junkies carry alot of diseases.

Enjoy.

Oh knock it off, Analyeast. I’m not lying about anything and I’m not “joining” anyone; I was simply soliciting your help.

If you’re going to edit posts to your advantage, at least have the integrity to admit it when you’re caught doing so.

I was kinda on your side up until now.

LOL…. editing posts?

You’re slipping ever deeper.

“Is housing analyst really Ben?”

The thought had crossed my mind, but I’m skeptical. Doesn’t seem to be Ben’s personality. My guess is a personal friend of some sort, or helps run the website…

C’est la vie. If the Pimp IS Ben, then he should know what I paid for my debt shack, since he’s got my home address.

Answer the question. If you didn’t edit my first post who were you responding to here?:

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-05-21 12:11:55
“her math jibes”? LOL

It’s a simple question, yeast. Go on, answer it. Liar.

Doesn’t seem to be Ben’s personality. My guess is a personal friend of some sort, or helps run the website…

I agree with this. If it was anybody else, he’d a been booted long ago…

‘If it was anybody else, he’d a been booted long ago’

I’ve been crawling under a house all day fixing burst pipes and don’t always have time to read what’s going on. I have never posted as anything other than my name and I am the only one moderating.

Nice diversion.

You’re all so distracted with misrepresenting the truth to the public that you can’t even keep your stories straight.

Ah. Thank you, Rio. And Housing, my sincere apologies. Your veracity remains intact.

Renting costs more than owning? What area? Not in Seattle…..

Buying is twice the monthly cost of “renting”.

So it goes…

Renting costs more than buying, solidly.

So it goes…

And rental rates will continue eroding…. until they’re a quarter the monthly cost of buying….. solidly.

Sit it is….

Renting costs will remain higher than owning costs.

This context-free debate is so much fun

And we’ll keep building and adding more inventory until resale housing prices are halved or more.

Debate? It’s reality….. there is nothing to debate Junkie.

I do think that rental rates will erode, but not for the same reason that HA believes. I think that over the next couple of years, many of the most able renters (ie. those with the highest incomes and money saved) will seek to purchase. If you flush out these renters from the rental pool, you will be left with a higher percentage of folks who have been suffering most during the past 6 years (stagnant incomes, etc.). Landlords will have a tough time pushing rents higher on these folks…they’ll just leave. Landlords will lose pricing power (or have it diminished).

So, if I’m right, whatever rent growth there was over the past few years will slow/stop/reverse over the next several years, not continue at the same pace.

I’m certainly not foaming at the mouth over a single data point, but whenever I’m presented with an apartment investment that is reliant upon rental growth every year of 3-5% for the next 3-5 years, I politely decline.

‘Renting costs will remain higher than owning costs’

Not the house I rent.

‘This context-free debate is so much fun’

I don’t know who you are, but don’t waste bandwidth hitting the comment key more than one time for each comment. And if you don’t like the “debate”, go away.

many of the most able renters (ie. those with the highest incomes and money saved) will seek to purchase.

I am an example of that. It is quite possible that if my rent hadn’t skyrocketed, then I would still be renting today. But I agree that rents will eventually stabilize. Units are starting to saturate with shackup roommates and government cheesechecks. When that’s done, there’s not much more capacity to raise rent faster than inflation. People will likely choose to commute from farther out, or risk living in the hoods.

We know what you’re an example of. We make you the example every day.

Your “skyrocketing rent” narrative is a lie. It’s false and you know it.

DC rents are DOWN 6% in just a year and falling. And they’ve been falling since 2011…. When did you get fleeced on your house? 2012? Well…. you wanted to be “locked in” and you got exactly what you wished for.

Take a look folks…. Falling DC rents for two years…. and still falling.

http://www.zillow.com/local-info/DC-Washington-home-value/r_41568/#metric=mt%3D46%26dt%3D1%26tp%3D4%26rt%3D8%26r%3D41568%252C121697%252C121685%252C121774%26el%3D0

And to the reading public;

Allow the few suckers who got fleeced on housing serve as an example of what not to do. Even in spite of reading everything here, they still leaped off a financial cliff. There is no going back for them. Don’t let it be you.

I see what you did there… +1

It’s common sense tornado control. Who could possibly oppose common sense measures?

Kansas, Oklahoma, 1000 miles apart?

Unless the tornado picked up the whole state of Oklahoma and threw it across the country, I believe they still share a common border.

actually it’s the republicans fault…a dem senator says so.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/20/democratic-senator-goes-on-anti-gop-rant-over-climate-change-as-tornadoes-hit-oklahoma/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

“Comment by Truth
2013-05-21 07:21:22

oklahoma went over 65 percent for both mccain and romney. this was obama’s payback. he used his african voodoo witchdoctor trickster sorcery that he learned while growing up in kenya to conjure the storm to punish his enemies.”

Hey, you leave Barack Millhouse Nixon alone or he will put you on his ‘enemies list’ and have the IRS crawl up your ass with a microscope. Or maybe tap your phone and e-mail. You got no 1st Amendment rights until HE grants them. You people got to learn to either lay down, lick your nuts and be a good sycophant or you might find yourself gettin’ droned or on your way to ‘Gitmo. If His Omnipotence wants your opinion, he’ll damn-well give it to you! And in an open and “transparent Administration” way, too! Hater. Terrorist. Citizen. Whatever.

‘climate change’ = bunch of librul gobbledygook

and my granddaddy wasn’t no monkey either

“science and logic…”

You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.

“science and logic…” You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
Blue Skye’s debate team coach, 1971

i will take the global warming crowd more seriously when they publicly rebuke the likes of al gore, this whitehouse senator, and any other public figure that uses isolated tragedies to support their agenda…until then…i am more than comfortable with my skepticism…and the sand where my head is buried is much cooler than in the company of those jackasses.

Just another way of saying that magical thinking is not akin to logic. I’m also pretty sure that debate is not possible with an anti social person. It’s more like trading insults.

I’m also pretty sure that debate is not possible with an anti social person. It’s more like trading insults.

Debate is possible with an anti-social person. You just have to be able to take their dumb name calling and laugh at their illogical bs. Like as per the people who insulted me and called me names yesterday while I engaged in rational debate.

I’ve been called 10 harsh names for every 1 weak sauce name I’ve flung back after I’ve had enough. But names don’t phase me much.

You, BluSky, tend to use more of a passive-aggressive, underhanded, one-line swipe in your “debate”.

I take exception to the underhanded part.

LOL, Blue. THAT’S the tone to strive for.

I take exception to the underhanded part.

I’m apologize.

That was not the right word in your description.

I withdraw “underhanded” and replace it with “quasi-stealthy barbed“

Global Warming? But in the 70s it was global cooling causing tornadoes. It’s so confusing keeping track of it all. Will you leftists make up your mind already? Pick a side and go with it already.

http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/1975-tornado-outbreaks-blamed-on-global-cooling/

All I know is, Montana isn’t as cold was it as in the 80s. In 1984, I recall a whole month under zero. Good times.

Keeps out the riffraff too.

I try to point this out all the time to friends, colleagues, etc, mostly to no avail.

If you have an additional, say, $500 per month that you can put toward the principal, which loan will you pay down faster? Why would anyone choose the harder-to-pay-down situation?

People loooove being debt donkeys.

Why would anyone choose the harder-to-pay-down situation?

Because choosing the easier situation means waiting for the easier situation… and paying rent every month while I wait. I went through this in gory detail over a year ago.

Hey DebtDonkey…… You fail to be honest about housing demand. It’s at 17 year lows and falling.

Why is that DebtDonkey?

And DebtDonkey….. You fail to disclose to the reading public that you have a stake in the direction of prices.

Why is that DebtDonkey?

Oxy, you should go back and read your posts from a year ago. You went into great detail about how you were going to get rich from your debt.

You never get rich by borrowing, except in a Ponzi.

Oxy, you should go back and read your posts from a year ago. You went into great detail about how you were going to get rich from your debt.

I recall she wrote that her PITI was cheaper or the same as renting, fixed, and that in 30 years her house would be paid for. And it was more of a defense from hostile attacks than it was bragging.

In my book, by American standards that is doing fine but not “getting rich”.

You don’t recall anything except lies.

You’re LYING DRAMA QUEEN.

I personally have a problem with anyone getting rich from housing.

Same goes for health care.

Housing is for shelter. Morally I just have a problem with massive inequality in any area that is a basic human need, whether it be food, shelter, or health care.

I would never want to be a landlord or a flipper or a developer. I bought a house, after much deliberation and many hours on HBB, because I needed a place to live, and the math penciled out. End of story.

So yeah, whatever, call me a socialist.

“morally”

LOL…. you don’t know the definition of the word.

Because choosing the easier situation means waiting for the easier situation…

I ain’t mad atcha, oxy. I get it. And if your plan is to stick to the amortization schedule for most of those 30 years, you’ve got the same overall outlay.

My point has more to do with wanting to pay it down faster and, in the bigger picture, how far down the debt rabbit hole we keep going, effectively having to come up with lower rates and/or new “products” to manufacture affordability. We’re addicted to debt now.

Perhaps you can go to census bureau.

Thanks,

Management

Perhaps you can go to census bureau.

Good suggestion, so I did. In 1969 the median household income was $8,486, and the median house sold was $26,800. that’s 3.16x income.

In 1979, the median household income was $16,841, and the median house sold was $63,800. That’s 3.79x income.

Rearranging the data and presenting it as truth merely makes you a liar.

Now post the source of the data and link to it. You won’t because you’re lying.

Why do you continue to lie to the public about housing? Why do you want people enslaved to massively inflated mortgage payments on rapidly depreciating assets?

Now post the source of the data and link to it. You won’t because you’re lying.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/historical/state/state1.html

http://www.census.gov/const/uspricemon.pdf

I used the month of July for median household sale price.

In 1989 median household income was $30,056, and median house sold was $116,000- 3.85x income.

In 1999, the numbers were $41,994, and $158,200- 3.76x income.

Typical Alwog…. You really did lie. You quoted inflation adjusted incomes against nominal housing prices.

You’re a real creep…

Why do you continue to lie to the public about housing? Why do you want people enslaved to massively inflated mortgage payments on rapidly depreciating assets?

Typical Alwog…. You really did lie. You quoted inflation adjusted incomes against nominal housing prices.

No, I didn’t. in inflation adjusted dollars (adjusted to 1999, the year the chart was made) incomes were: 1969- $33,249. 1979- $36,029. 1989- $39,213. 1999 was the same, of course.

I quoted both house prices and incomes in their nominal amounts, not their inflation adjusted amounts.

Thanks, for lying, though!

Now post the source of the data and link to it.

No, you. Find me that rental for half the cost.

And given interest rates today are less than 1/2 what they were in ‘89 or ‘99. I posted this a few days ago, it’s 50% cheaper today for the median income household to purchase the median income priced home in America using a 30 year fixed mortgage compared to the year 2000. That isn’t opinion, it’s simple math.

You two dishonest suckers deserve each other.

And worse yet for you Alwog, you quoted NEW housing, not resale.

YOU are a serial LIAR.

And given interest rates today are less than 1/2 what they were in ‘89 or ‘99. I posted this a few days ago, it’s 50% cheaper today for the median income household to purchase the median income priced home in America using a 30 year fixed mortgage compared to the year 2000. That isn’t opinion, it’s simple math.

Seriously? Do you think you’re going to get away with slipping this turd in the punchbowl? Your dishonesty is quite insidious.

The financing rate is 50% cheaper. The total cost to finance is 50% HIGHER as transaction prices are double what they were in 2000.

And transaction prices are 200% higher today than they were in year 2000. That’s not opinion, it’s simple math.

Why do you think you can get away with lying to the public about housing on the Housing Bubble Blog?

Fer crying out loud HA

I’m not Iwog, but at least if you’re going to assume someone is, assume it’s me not Alpha Sloth. This is sloppy work even for you.

A liar and a liar is a distinction without a difference.

“A liar and a liar is a distinction without a difference.”

So now you’re a Realtor? Thanks for coming out of the closet.

Incriminate yourself some more. Proceed Alwog.

It’s not a big surprise. You’re posting style SCREAMS Realtor. Realtors deal in absolutes while us Bears recognize nuances. We Bears will admit we were wrong, while you Realtors will stick to your guns even when it’s obvious you story is a load. It’s a big step forward for you to come clean. However, it’s a big step back posting under other aliases. I do believe you will eventually become a respectable Bear worthy of Ben’s blog.

More AlWog. Pour a few more shots first.

I have to admit, I was rather disappointed to see you posting as Truth again. I thought you had broken your addiction to handle hopping. If you want to re-establish yourself as a legitimate poster here, all you have to do is stick to one handle, and post stuff either as opinion (ie. I believe there are around 25 million houses in shadow inventory) or back up info you present as facts (ie no bogus links, or claiming that you alreadyt posted the info.) One other suggestion. Get over the idea that I’m Iwog. He’ll hound you relentlessly if realises that you’re seeing his shadow all over the interweb. PS. If you have any doubt about whether I’m actually Iwog, look back on my prevous posts and you’ll see I’m a Canadian.

‘We Bears will admit we were wrong’

I never thought the bubble was done with. Just the prices in little Flagstaff were proof enough of that. Admit what you want, but you don’t speak for me. IMO it’s still the same bubble.

You’re drunker that I though. Keep going.

Hey Ben,

Here’s my thoughts. I believed that the once the bubble popped that prices would fall in line with historic trends, or below as people became disenchanted with housing. Canadian markets would follow in 2008/2009. It didn’t happen. People with influence did some crazy shtuff which prevented markets from behaving as one would expect.

We didn’t see this coming, although potentially we could have. Supressed interest rates tend to push people towards buying and away from saving and renting. Supressed interest rates drive investors away from fixed income and towards everything else, including housing as we have seen. As a true Bear, I’m able to admit things didn’t work as predicted.

Having said that, I fully believe that housing markets will eventually trend towards the norm. They can’t stay suspended by manipulation forever. I see the HBB as being potentially the best source of info on what might come next, but you know who has a bad habit of inhibiting coherent discussion. Take the question of shadow inventory as an example. It’s very pertinent, but you know who tends to yell really loud when anyone tries to discuss it, repeating the same number unsubstantiated number. By now the collective brain power of the HBB could have probably come up with a pretty reasonable estimate if the discussion hadn’t been disrupted.

Just one guy’s opinion.

But not The O?

Dare I ask why they named it Cardiac Hill?

That’s where everyone collapses after eating at The O.

Cardiac hill = probably because UPMC people named it. It’s right next to UPMC and Pitt’s medical school. And it is very steep. I wonder if AZ slim ever tried to bike up it, I’m thinking it might be nearly impossible.

I went to the O (we called it the Dirty O) and also Primanti Brothers. Good times. The O was where people went when drunk/stoned/both.

The O was where people went when drunk/stoned/both.

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

That’s funny, I was not legal drinking age when I spent my summers there and I don’t see how you live _without_ getting drunk and/or high in Oakland PGH in the summers. The Cathedral Lawn was basically a hodge podge of people playing ultimate frisbee and smoking (very weak) mj.

Cardiac hill = probably because UPMC people named it. It’s right next to UPMC and Pitt’s medical school. And it is very steep. I wonder if AZ slim ever tried to bike up it, I’m thinking it might be nearly impossible.

I *think* tried to ride up Cardiac Hill. And I know that I failed. It’s a very steep hill.

North Atlantic Avenue off of Penn Avenue was about my limit.

Good thing UPMC is only 100 miles from Oil City. If you conveniently time your heart attack for non-rush hour times so the Fort Pitt Tunnel isn’t backed up, you’ll have a fighting chance

I don’t know much about heart attacks. (knock on wood) Does a close, state of an art hospital make much difference compared to a small facility during the heart attack? Or would the difference come later for a complicated scheduled procedure?

Survival rates and outcomes are hard to come by but yes, there are new and improved treatments for heart attacks and strokes and they are time sensitive. UPMC is a world-class hospital, one of the 10 (or so) best in the US and a leader in many specialities. OTOH, Oil City is basically in the middle of nowhere, someone could prove me wrong, but I really doubt most of us would want to roll the dice and chance a serious illness or injury up there. PA has been unable to attract many physicians to work in it’s “T Zone” (PA outside of PHL/PGH areas) for a long time, even though they offer loan repayment to lure physicians to rural/underserved areas.

PA has been unable to attract many physicians to work in it’s “T Zone” (PA outside of PHL/PGH areas) for a long time, even though they offer loan repayment to lure physicians to rural/underserved areas.

I came from a rural/underserved area that has a hard time getting and keeping doctors. If the system wasn’t designed to keep the number of doctors artificially low the problem would take care of itself. There are people from those areas who would be willing to live and work in those areas after graduation if they could get into and afford med school. But first they would have to be allowed into med school and then either educated more cheaply or paid more or their loans paid off. Our system does not support that. So only the elite go to med school and they would rather live with their fellow elites on the coasts.

Carl, I agree with you. The AMA is a very effective lobby. PA actually has a new medical school (just opened in last few years) in NE PA (near Scranton). But want to make a prediction on how many of those doctors end up in rural/underserved areas? Probably not many. Residencies tend to be at large, urban teaching hospitals. People get used to certain amenities and a certain lifestyle. And it’s hard to give that up right after you go from being paid peanuts (residency) to making real money.

“If you conveniently time your heart attack for non-rush hour times so the Fort Pitt Tunnel isn’t backed up”

From Oil City, you would probably come down 79 North and not need to go through the Fort Pitt tunnel. You would cross the I-279 or I-579 bridge from the North Side.

That’s a nice story.

you racist.

Comment by michael
2013-05-21 07:09:31
you racist.

?

“more engineers, doctors and other highly valuable citizens”

dog whistle for “white people”…ok…maybe asians.

In Colorado would know more, but hi-skilled workers aren’t the ones who need to look for a better life. Evidently the professional class does rather well south of the border.

http://mobile.wnd.com/2012/09/claim-obama-hid-gay-life-to-become-president/

There’s something queer about that story.

https://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/september-2-2009/ted-kennedys-immigration-legacy-and-why-did-he-do-it.html

“He also said that he believes that, despite all the liberal veneer, Kennedy was deeply beholden to the country’s banking titans and other globalist business entities who have so much interest in the free flow of international labor and in keeping the wages of Americans stagnant.”

it’s always about the money.

Anticipating that my comments might bring on some argument and mis-interpretation, I want to qualify that there is a distinction between a POW subject to torture and duress by the enemy, and a wounded war vet who has not been subject to imprisonment, who can and do serve the people with honor, even if I may not always agree with them.

lindsey graham = never been married

So? What difference does that make? Plenty of people never marry.

I think what you’re referring to is the rumors of homosexuality, etc. that have dogged him. Humph. There are also guys who are on the down low.

That he never married is not something I would hold against him.

Married or not, he’s just twisted.

lindsey graham = never been married

I bet the married but gay vastly out number the unmarried and gay.

unmarried and NOT gay.

So? What difference does that make? Plenty of people never marry.

Had I not met my lady I think there is a good chance I never would have married.

Had I not met my lady I think there is a good chance I never would have married.

Ditto. And that was just over a year ago.

Whatever the case may be, there’s only one name for the members of the “Gang of Eight”, or as I like to call them alternately, The Gangbanger Eight or the Gang of Hate.

They are TRAITORS, complete, utter, contemptible TRAITORS, and worthy of the treatment that society, sooner or late, metes out to TRAITORS.

Sick, sick men, every one of them, without exception.

“Muzzle” works better.

I agree. They did have plenty of help coming to those conclusions, though, thanks to the media agenda.

Media? Just 6 companies own 90% of all English speaking MSM.

“Just 6 companies own 90% of all English speaking MSM.”

So what? If it’s 6 or 600 they all spew the same garbage.

“Renovating to sell in the hot market? Most people facing foreclosure don’t have money to spend on fixes.”

That’s what I said. People who face foreclosure don’t spend money at HD whether they have money or not. You don’t spend money on a house you’re walking away from. The fact they are spending money means they are no longer planning to walk.

You can twist this any way you like it, fact is when HD does well, housing does well and vice versa.

Hey goobers …… construction is seasonal.

Very few of them ever ‘walked’. Many more just ’squatted’.

Hey goobers …… construction is seasonal.

So are house sales.

LMAO…..And sales are at 1997 levels.

Do keep up Eco.

New construction is seasonal. Flipper paint, Pergo and granite are winter jobs.

And did you know that there are actual places in this country that have a mild winter? And that those places have houses in them?

psssst…. Hey Junkie….. here’s a secret for you…..

Slapping together houses might be 10-15% of construction dollar volume. You’ve been at the housing altar for so long you can’t think straight.

So you’re saying that 85-90% of construction is weather independent? Then why did you bother to say that construction is seasonal since it appears that it’s not? It also justifies why HD does well year-round.

You’re the only one saying it DebtDonkey.

How far underwater are you? $100k? 200k?

Ultimately, this is what it’s about. It might seem ridiculous and petty, but ultimately, policy makers are mere humans, interested in providing for themselves and their families. They’re just like any other career-oriented person. Realize that, and it explains a lot.

Timothy F. Geithner, who finished his term as U.S. Treasury secretary in January, has found a buyer for his house in Bethesda, Maryland, just a week after listing the home for $995,000.

Geithner bought the home in August 2009 for $950,000, according to public records.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-21/geithner-s-home-under-contract-one-week-after-listing.html

“Hey goobers …… construction is seasonal.”

Home Depot’s profit improvement was not 18% sequential, but 18% year-on-year.

2013’s first quarter’s profit was 18% above 2012’s first quarter’s profit ($1.22 Billion vs. $1.04 Billion).

“2013’s first quarter’s profit was 18% above 2012’s first quarter’s profit ($1.22 Billion vs. $1.04 Billion).”

Don’t confuse him with pesky things like facts and figures and logic.

It’s not nearly as confusing as mortgage apps at 1996 levels…. and falling.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2013/03/20130328_house2.jpg

Now RUN from it Slithers. It’s what you do best.

Browne’s Addition is the most overhyped area.

Agreed, but there really aren’t other “nice” areas of Spokane.

Then again, these are the areas in other cities that have gotten gentrified in the past decade. While I ridicule these areas, I actually like that Spokane still has a lot of the grit that other cities, like Portland, have shrugged off.

Are you from the area? Living there now? (I thought you were an east coaster)

Me an east coaster? Pshaw. I went to college there but I’m a west coast kid through and through. I live a little outside Spokane but I’m not from here. I love living here though. Mountains and lakes all around, perfect summer weather (typical June-Sept day is 70s/80s, sun and 20% humidity), practically no traffic, at least compared to Seattle/SF/LA.

There are definitely some rough areas, but find me a city of 250K+ people without them. South Hill is great, Country Homes/Indian Trail area is nice, Liberty Lake/Greenacres as well if you want the suburban/country option that’s still less than 30 mins to downtown. And it’s affordable. $500K is the high end of real estate.

I think Spokane gets an undeserved bad rap for being “gritty” as you put it. I wish more people from L.A. would feel the same way and stop moving here. Not to go off on a rant here….but WTF is it with people from LA that move here (or anywhere really) and the second they get here they complain about how “here” isn’t like back in L.A. and how much they miss good Sushi. Then why the hell did you leave? Go back and eat all the good sushi you want and leave the rest of us alone. Rant off.

My bad. I must’ve confused you with another poster…

but WTF is it with people from LA that move here (or anywhere really) and the second they get here they complain about how “here” isn’t like back in L.A.

Same story here in Portland. Their transience leads to instability in this region, IMO.

I could live in Spokane. I like the grit. That was a compliment.

Spokane County:
Median income $49,250
Median house: $192,800
3.9 ratio

King County (Seattle)
Median Income: $70,500
Median house: $402,000
5.7 ratio

I dig Portland as well. To visit. I don’t think I could deal with the nuttiness. Also the reason I passed on moving to Missoula. Great city to visit, I’d probably go insane being there 365 days a year. I’m only a 3 hour drive away now which is perfect.

Portland’s cool but don’t dare tell anyone that it doesn’t have to be the best place in the whole history of places. I’ve never seen a place put on a pedestal the way this place is, with so much self-love. It’s like people have to convince themselves that they actually like living here, it’s so over the top how much you’re hit over the head being reminded of its awesomeness. Okay, my rant off.

It’s like people have to convince themselves that they actually like living here, it’s so over the top how much you’re hit over the head being reminded of its awesomeness.

Since so many people move there from other places, it may also be that they’re trying to convince themselves that they made such a brilliant decision to make the move. I’ve noticed that in other places.

A certain amount of civic pride is OK, but it’s odd that so many have their self-esteem wrapped up in the city or state or whatever that they reside in.

Why did it take so long to arrive at this conclusion?

I have a bulletin for you Slithers….. I’ll be right here exposing your BS every time you post it.

You know why they are called “Type A”, right?

We are hiring

To be fair, DHS wasn’t really “built-up.” Wasn’t it a combination of a lot of smaller existing agencies under one umbrella?

What has exploded is the number of “security”-type contractors milking 911. I suspect those are the folks buying the McMansions on Route 7 in NoVa, while their fresh-faced admin assistants use HGTV Purple paint on the walls of their $275K 1-bed condos in Tysons Corner.

DHS and DoD contractors pretty much explain Loudoun County VA and Howard County MD. Which are two of the richest 3 or 4 counties in the U.S. (I’d be shocked if they are not.) _Median_ household income in those counties is over 100k. Not average, _median_. And they are not small counties, either. Then you have to add in Montgomery Co, MD and Fairfax/Arlington/Falls Church VA.

But no, no, no, the real problem is pensions for state workers and too much money spent on Obamaphones. Let’s ignore DHS and DoD spending though, plus tax loopholes or the rich.

“$275K 1-bed condos in Tysons Corner.”

too low…perhaps.

The funny thing is that condos in the DC area have huge condo fees, like 800/month for a 1BR unit in an avg condo building. LOLsies!

If you’re paying 800/month in condo fees on a 1BR, they own you and you really don’t “own” much of anything.

“plus tax loopholes or the rich.”

Well of course tax loopholes are for the rich. Only the rich pay taxes. The poor pay no tax, they don’t need tax loopholes.

The funny thing is that condos in the DC area have huge condo fees, like 800/month for a 1BR unit in an avg condo building. LOLsies!

Apparently, the city helping people out with buying BMR (below market rate) condos has had unintended consequences.

All the BMR’s are condos, with the attached fees. Everything looks good on paper at sale time, affordability-wise. But as years pass and the neighborhood gets gentrified, the fees go up. And that BMR apt. is now no longer affordable.

Only the rich pay taxes. The poor pay no tax,

The poor pay a higher rate of total taxes than billionaires. And unlike billionaires, the poor need that money that they pay in taxes for day to day living expenses that have risen higher relative to their pay that the billionaires have cut.

“The poor pay a higher rate of total taxes than billionaires. And unlike billionaires, the poor need that money that they pay in taxes for day to day living expenses that have risen higher relative to their pay that the billionaires have cut.”

The poor pay no income tax. Most of the middle class pays no income tax either. This is a fact. The top 10% pays 70% of all income taxes. The top 1% pays 40% of all income taxes. This is IRS data that you can easily find online.

The evil billionaire who “only” pays a 15% tax rate will in 1 year pay more tax than you will pay in a lifetime.

BMR?

You got those REIT/realtor acronyms down pretty good Junkie.

The evil billionaire who “only” pays a 15% tax rate will in 1 year pay more tax than you will pay in a lifetime.

A large portion of the billionaires made their fortunes in the finance industry, which needs federal bailouts on a regular basis. Another large portion made their money in the so-called “technology” industry, which was built largely on research and development funded by the government.

‘big’ is a subjective term but to me it means anything outside the constitution and overspending, which is the hallmark of centralized government.

I’m not talking “big” and “small”, I’m talking “strong” and “weak”.

And anarchy will result from the breakdown of any form of government, not just tyranny.

Powerful gangs and cartels couldn’t exist in Saddam’s Iraq because he was the biggest and most ruthless of them all, and didn’t brook competition.

I’m not talking “big” and “small”, I’m talking “strong” and “weak”.

the essence of government is force. force ultimately at gunpoint. so how is there a difference in ’strong’ and ‘weak’ government? is it when they are able to enforce laws and when they aren’t? a government too weak to enforce laws is on its way to destruction anyway.

And anarchy will result from the breakdown of any form of government, not just tyranny.

no it won’t. many times in our past there has been little or no law enforcement in certain sparse areas or because of natural disaster. most of the time people have come together to help one another when in need. lately, as government has become more tyrannical, we are getting episodes like katrina where there has been widespread looting and gunfire. but some semblance of order was still there. we didn’t experience total anarchy.

somalia had a tyrannical government that broke down. anarchy prevailed for a long time. when iraq’s tyrannical government was crushed, anarchy was sprung loose. but there’s always some form of government that springs up from the ‘vacuum’. some rules will come in from any type of authority. the problem is that what usually springs up is just another form of tyranny, so the cycle repeats.

Powerful gangs and cartels couldn’t exist in Saddam’s Iraq because he was the biggest and most ruthless of them all, and didn’t brook competition.

just because he wanted them crushed, doesn’t mean that they were. yes, the biggest fear there was saddam. but i’ve read that gangs and cartels did still operate there. it’s just that they weren’t near as profitable because the tyrannical government had strangled much of the wealth out of the country.

in Mexico, where i lived for 8 years, the cartels are stronger than the government. they make the rules. they bring in much more money than the government, so they can afford to be as ruthless as they deem necessary. if a local cop stops a drug dealer with a load of drugs, the cop just waves him through with an apology for the inconvenience of the stop. you wouldn’t believe what it’s like unless you’ve actually lived there. the red tape in mexico to start a business is unbelievable. government is involved in everything. corruption is way beyond the USA. but government only has control of regular citizens, not the dealers and cartels.

the only thing the cartels in mexico fear is the ‘federalies’. the feds repeatedly try to take them on, but they lose every time.

Neuromance:And anarchy will result from the breakdown of any form of government, not just tyranny.

tjno it won’t. many times in our past there has been little or no law enforcement in certain sparse areas or because of natural disaster. most of the time people have come together to help one another when in need.

In order to understand what happens when there is lack of government, one has to look at Europe and the rest of the world, and see how it developed. And the pattern is remarkably similar. They go from hunter-gatherer bands, to feudalism. Then some get stuck there. Others transition into nation states. In England, the first nation-state, one king defeated the other feudal lords. All the defeating was done with ruthless violence. The pattern is remarkably similar around the world. And nowadays, we use the term dictator instead of king, and cartel leader instead of feudal lord, but they describe the same things.

Looking at a three-week snapshot of Fargo is a very poor snapshot from which to extrapolate. The world today has been shaped by fire and steel and blood. Europe itself has an extraordinarily bloody history. It took World War I (16 million dead) and World War II (40 million dead in European theater, 60 million total) in quick succession to yield the relative peace that exists today.

Looking at a 3 week snapshot of the Fargo floods versus New Orleans after Katrina gives a very incomplete picture. If the US government pulled out of these places, then you see real anarchy. Realize this: these populations do not exist in a vacuum. Eventually, in both places, someone would take over, if the US government pulled out. They might come from outside, or from within. Someone is always going to fill a power vacuum. I grant you that New Orleans is much closer to anarchy at any given time than Fargo. But so what? Remove the government and both are on the river to anarchy. New Orleans is a hundred yards from the waterfall and Fargo is twenty miles from the waterfall. But they’re both on the river to the waterfall.

Many look at just post 1950 Europe and the US and try to draw lessons from it. One needs to look at the bulk of human history instead.

Anarchy will eventually recoalesce into some kind of government system, beginning the common reconstitution process of government all over again. But it won’t be an elected one. It’ll be either led by MS-13 leaders, Aryan Brotherhood, or former special forces. Recall that the Zetas were originally Mexican special forces officers. They are an incredibly brutal organization.

It’s just the way the world is. Communes can only exist inside securely guarded walls.

Neuromance: Powerful gangs and cartels couldn’t exist in Saddam’s Iraq because he was the biggest and most ruthless of them all, and didn’t brook competition.

tj: just because he wanted them crushed, doesn’t mean that they were. yes, the biggest fear there was saddam. but i’ve read that gangs and cartels did still operate there. it’s just that they weren’t near as profitable because the tyrannical government had strangled much of the wealth out of the country.

There is a vast amount of oil wealth in Iraq. Gangs and cartels had every opportunity to exploit it. However, Saddam was quite powerful militarily relative to them. And he gloried in brutally suppressing any challenge to his rule.

Again, the pattern repeats over and over throughout history. Guy Fawkes day? He tried to assassinate the king. You know what the king did to him? This:

“The outcome was never in doubt. The jury found all of the defendants guilty, and the Lord Chief Justice Sir John Popham proclaimed them guilty of high treason. The Attorney General Sir Edward Coke told the court that each of the condemned would be drawn backwards to his death, by a horse, his head near the ground. They were to be “put to death halfway between heaven and earth as unworthy of both”. Their genitals would be cut off and burnt before their eyes, and their bowels and hearts removed. They would then be decapitated, and the dismembered parts of their bodies displayed so that they might become “prey for the fowls of the air”.”

Would have brought a tear of joy to Saddam’s eye.

They know that the losers squabbling over teacher pensions, abortion, gunz, and Benghazi are easily distracted from real issues and deep down have passively accepted their lot in life–fighting over scraps.

Some people grow up so far away from the centers of power they don’t even know that there is more than scraps available. It’s all they’ve ever known. They haven’t passively accepted anything and they are likely to get upset when they figure out what’s really going on. If they ever do.

Carl, I’m not sure about that. Look, for example, at 2Ban or nycdj. People confront them with the big realities of life and then a day later they got back to parroting Drudge headlines and reciting their standard riffs on “chickiepoos” and “union thugs”. The average ‘murkan is no better. They know some big things are wrong but perhaps feel powerless to confront or think about big things. I don’t think it’s a lack of knowing that there are big problems, though.

I was talking about the money and how the world works at the power centers at the expense of everyone else. Not the awareness of problems.

Barack Hussein Obama

Hussein

http://www.obamasrealfather.com

“Bathouse Barry”

LMAO! I have read some of the accounts of Barry and Rahm on the loose in Chi-Town, having a gay old time.

Even more incredible was the account I saw of Bill Frist’s (remember him?) adventures with Barry.

Bizarre. But if you’ve read historical accounts of the ruling classes in the decaying stages of their countries, it’s not all that unbelievable. In fact it’s almost sort of mild compared to some of the things that have gone on.

Not judging you or anything, but this is no place for homoerotic fiction.

Skyyyyyyyyyyyyyy……….Pilot.

(Channeling my inner Eric Burdon….. …)

I can only contrast the kind of science fiction we grew up with, vs, the serialized “Bug Hunts” we (mostly) have today.

Anyone remember “THX 1138″?

Talk about a look into the future.

I can only contrast the kind of science fiction we grew up with, vs, the serialized “Bug Hunts” we (mostly) have today.

Where special effects is used in the place of a thought provoking story.

Lucas’ first film.

Here’s some other blasts from the past:
Dark Star
Dr. Strangelove
Silent Running
Logan’s Run
Zardoz
Westworld
Colossus: The Forbin Project

Notice a theme?

Dr. Strangelove was science fiction? ISTM it was more satire than science fiction. What science was not real in it?

The answer to all life’s problems seems to be higher taxes and more regulation. Why I bet if OK had a 100% income tax, the govt would figure out a way to end all tornado activity. It’s those evil Republicans that hate children and puppies who stand in the way. Same with Florida and hurricanes. It’s weird though, Democrats have run CA for 30 years and they still have earthquakes and forest fires. What’s up with that?

TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS for a a few new A/C units and a new high school science lab.

And you wonder why people voted it down?

For $20M you could build a brand new high school and still have some money left over. And they wanted $20M for a lab? How in the world did they justify that kind of money. And this was 10 years ago so about $25M in today’s dollars.

Bring it LIAR.

Are you mentally Ill?

Yes, he is. And everyone here knows it.

The all caps and bold are just one symptom. Name-calling, another.

Sad, sorry, little, lonely, man.

What we all know here is that you’re a sick, shameless woman who made a financial error like millions of others who bought a house from 1998-current. Even in spite of everything you should have learned here.

You learned nothing.