June 25, 2013

People Are Crazy Not To Buy

The Sun News reports from South Carolina. “Single-family home sales along the Grand Strand in May clipped along at a level not seen since before the Great Recession, but area Realtors said there are enough brakes on the local market that they’re not worried about Bubble, the sequel. Marvin Heyd, CEO of Prudential Myrtle Beach Real Estate, said there are still 12 months inventory left for short sales and foreclosures, which will hold down price pressures in the traditional market.”

“In 2014, he sees a buyers’ market emerging from the dregs of the recession, and in 2015, he believes that activity will pick up more speed and that prices will return to what they were in 2004 to 2005. But while he’s got an eye to the future, he’s enjoying the present. ‘Right now,’ he said, ‘all the Realtors are smiling.’”

The Atlanta Journal Constitution in Georgia. “Recently, an Atlanta couple became frustrated with their search to purchase a home. They made several offers on homes they liked but kept losing out to higher bidders. One day, they found a home that had hit the market that very day. They were so determined to win that bid, they immediately submitted an offer — and then asked if they could see the house for the first time the next day. They just wanted to jump in line and be considered as a buyer early.”

“The couple who recently bid on the house before they ever saw it didn’t win the bidding; they are still out there looking. They are persistent, and they will eventually be the highest bidder and be back in the housing game. That story and others like it illustrate what is happening in Atlanta’s residential real estate market today. We are witnessing the beginning of a new boom in real estate.”

From Northfulton.com in Georgia. “Rhonda Duffy, owner of Duffy Realty, recalls a period in 2007 before the crash when the metro Atlanta market experienced a record high of 110,000 homes for sale, a level that even forced Metro Brokers to switch their sign on Interstate 75 and I-85 from an analog system to digital because the number surpassed the five digit limit. ‘Ever since then we’ve slowly gone down to where we’ve been for the last two or three years which is 36,000 homes,’ Duffy said. ‘When interest rates go down like that and then they start to pick up again, it starts to freak buyers out.’”

“The averages sales price for Harry Norman Realtors is now about $350,000, Aiken said. One year ago, it was about $250,000. ‘Before you had so much inventory that you couldn’t get what they were worth, then people were underwater. Now they’re not underwater, now they can sell them, but they want more for them than they’re worth,’ Aiken said.”

“James Stephens, property and real estate appraiser, says the home appraisal problem relates to a large influx of investors that feel like the time is right for buying. ‘I think what you’re seeing in a lot of different markets in the metro Atlanta area is a shortage of available homes compared to years past,’ Stephens said. ‘Prices are appreciating rapidly and previous homes sales that have happened earlier this year don’t really reflect the current pricing.’”

AAP on Florida. “The open house on a leafy street near South Miami featured a snack wagon with cupcakes and chilled beverages, but the real draw was the newly-listed house for sale for $435,000. Over a two-hour stretch on a Sunday afternoon, 44 groups of couples and families streamed through the well-kept two-bedroom, one-and-a-half-bathroom house on a large block. They didn’t come to eat cupcakes. Five purchase offers came sailing in - three that day, two the next.”

“Mortgage rates are at historic lows, thanks to the Federal Reserve’s unprecedented manoeuvres to stimulate economic growth. Banks have begun to ease terms on mortgages, with down payments of 10 per cent and less increasingly available, widening the options for prospective buyers to jump in. ‘Interest rates are so low, people are crazy not to buy,’ said Philip Vias, a broker associate with Prudential Florida Realty in Fort Lauderdale.”

“And, with housing prices marching higher in many areas, many buyers are feeling a sense of urgency to act now or miss out. ‘We have a chance to grab something. We want to take advantage of this great market. Interest rates are low,’ said Leonard Bridgnauth, a 36-year-old courier who, with his wife Kimmy, has been scouring the Miramar, Florida, area for a house in the $US250,000 range since December, so far without luck.”

“‘Because inventory is so low, it’s creating some kind of a frenzy,’ said Chuck Bonfiglio, president of the Greater Fort Lauderdale Realtors. ‘People are pricing their homes over what the market is … Buyers know inventory is low and are willing to pay over appraisal to get the deal done.’”

The Tampa Tribune in Florida. “An investor buying spree has the Tampa Bay area’s home prices soaring, the latest housing figures show, leaving some to wonder how much longer it will continue before the investors back down. Around Florida, some Realtors are whispering about a bubble in the housing market.”

“John Tuccillo, chief economist for Florida Realtors, challenged that assumption. Investors today have sophisticated financial models that tell them how much they can pay for a house and still get a decent return from renting it out. Once prices rise too high, they’ll stop buying. That should keep investor buying from getting out of control, he said. Already, a shortage of inexpensive houses is forcing investors to move upscale and buy pricier homes, he said.”

“‘There aren’t as many unsophisticated investors out there as there was back in 2004 and 2005,’ Tuccillo said.”

The Brevard Times in Florida. “‘The numbers continue to move in the right direction,’ said Florida Realtors Chief Economist Dr. John Tuccillo. ‘We remain concerned about the rise in the percentage of sales accounted for by all cash buyers. These numbers understate the true condition of the market in that a great many sales are conducted directly with the financial institution holding the property, and thus do not appear in the Multiple Listing Service (MLS).’”

“‘But those crying doom-and-gloom who read this growth in investor activity as the sign of a new bubble are far off-base and simply don’t understand the texture of the current market,’ Tuccillo added.”

The St. Augustine Record in Florida. “A return to health of the lower end of the housing market in St. Johns County is adding to consumer confidence and to the overall economy. But those same increases in home values could also keep some middle-class families from getting into the market. One thing that has kept some lower-income families optimistic about buying a home is the continuation of low interest rates. Dirk Schroeder of Century 21 said banks have been making money available to more buyers recently. He said people with credit ratings around 580 are often getting approval.”

“Lenders are certainly reviewing files of perspective buyers more carefully (than during the housing bubble),’ he said. ‘You can have damaged credit and still be able to make purchases.’”




RSS feed

90 Comments »

Comment by Overtaxed
2013-06-25 05:38:42

“The open house on a leafy street near South Miami featured a snack wagon with cupcakes and chilled beverages, but the real draw was the newly-listed house for sale for $435,000. Over a two-hour stretch on a Sunday afternoon, 44 groups of couples and families streamed through the well-kept two-bedroom, one-and-a-half-bathroom house on a large block. They didn’t come to eat cupcakes. Five purchase offers came sailing in - three that day, two the next.”

I wonder where this actually was (the house). 435K for a 2/1.5 in most areas of Miami is way too high. Now, if it’s the Gables or somewhere like that, that might be a decent price.

And, incidentally, I’m hearing from buddies of mine in Miami that they have been getting unsoliticated offers for their homes from “investors”. They are low-ball offers, but, man, the mania seems to be back in some areas of S. FL.

Comment by perkonkrusts
2013-06-25 07:15:44

“a snack wagon with cupcakes and chilled beverages”

I wonder how many cupcakes I could eat before they stopped me.

I guess if you sell a house for more than $400,000, you serve “chilled beverages”. Houses below $400,000 just serve cold drinks. I think part of the reason I’m poor is because I still haven’t figured out how to say things the rich way.

 
Comment by United States of Moral Hazard
2013-06-25 10:06:57

“They are low-ball offers, but, man, the mania seems to be back in some areas of S. FL.”

It never left.

Comment by Bad Andy
2013-06-25 11:02:13

Yes it did. Condos couldn’t sell for $20K in 2010 and 2011.

Comment by United States of Moral Hazard
2013-06-25 12:02:43

No, it didn’t. The get-rich-quick mentality never died. Not even for a minute.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 17:56:25

Not even a second.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-25 06:03:39

“an Atlanta couple became frustrated with their search to purchase a home”

I have a friend in Atlanta who has been trying to buy a modest house for over a year, always outbid. She says she’s told the market is being driven by Asian buyers.

Comment by Ben Jones
2013-06-25 06:14:44

‘She says she’s told the market is being driven by Asian buyers’

Did you ever see the movie 1941?

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-25 06:45:00

“it’s gonna be a long war”

That one?

Comment by Ben Jones
2013-06-25 06:59:54

‘it’s gonna be a long war’

Yeah, where everyone is running around thinking the Japanese are behind every rock, mistakenly shooting at each other.

Here’s a headline at CNBC:

Depression Begone! Home Prices Set Record in April

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-25 07:26:09

Yes, it is without a doubt the same hype realtors have been using in places like vancouver for years.

 
 
 
Comment by scdave
2013-06-25 06:53:42

Nice research Ben….Looks like it is full blown Frenzy in many markets…..

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 07:23:17

How can that be when housing demand has fallen to 16 year lows and homeownership rate is down to 17 year lows?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-25 07:28:13

and housing starts at 60+ year lows?

Countries go manic all at once. Cities go sane one by one.

 
Comment by Al
2013-06-25 09:01:31

“How can that be when housing demand has fallen to 16 year lows and homeownership rate is down to 17 year lows?”

Sales and prices are influenced by both supply and demand and supply available for sale is low, although it sounds like it’s starting to build. Also, the only measure of demand I’m aware of is mortgage appications and that doesn’t include cash investors who have been becoming a larger part of the market.

The most powerful tool the PTB have deployed to maintain this bubble (or create a second one) is not the Fed or TARP or any such. It’s the change in accounting rules that have allowed the banks to sit on inventory at book value.

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 09:08:21

Mortgage apps are at 16 year lows.

 
Comment by Al
2013-06-25 10:00:50

Bird like to fly and say ‘chirp’.

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 10:27:08

Can’t dominate here on AlWog?

 
Comment by Al
 
Comment by Al
2013-06-25 13:31:29

You’ve figured out my dastardly plot. To dominate the HBB by posting infrequently!

You still might want to brush up on supply and demand.

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 17:57:54

You might want to look at demand.

 
Comment by travanx
2013-06-25 21:19:55

If housing inventory is low, wouldn’t that make sense that mortgage applications are low too?

I bought my dump for $352k 6 months ago and already had an offer for $450k 2 weeks ago. Inventory is low and there is nothing to buy in decent areas of LA under $500k. And no you can’t build where I live for $50/sqft. The land is worth more than that.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2013-06-25 21:31:48

‘I bought my dump for $352k 6 months ago and already had an offer for $450k 2 weeks ago’

It’s funny to me that people say such things like it’s a sign of strength. IMO this should scream ‘assume crash positions!’ Has everybody forgotten how many jobs went away a few years ago? It’s coming back, and what somebody offered you for your house in June 2013 won’t matter much when it does.

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 04:19:52

“And no you can’t build where I live for $50/sqft. The land is worth more than that.”

You can’t. We can and do…….. ANYWHERE

 
 
 
 
Comment by perkonkrusts
2013-06-25 07:38:37

I missed out on Atlanta bubble 1.0, and every other southeast bubble too.

My stellar record has been as follows:
Bought in Charlotte for $56k in ‘97, sold for the same 1-mo later
Bought in Dothan, AL for $70k in ‘97, sold for $67k in ‘01.
Bought in Atlanta (Roswell) for $102k in ‘01, sold for $95k in ‘04.
Bought in Louisville for $172k in ‘04, sold for $178k in ‘06 (jackpot!)
Bought in SE FL for $345k in ‘06, sold for $285k in ‘07.
Bought in Greenville, SC for $250,000 in ‘07. Worth maybe $240,000 now, six years later.

Where were the Asian buyers when I needed them?

Comment by Resistor
2013-06-25 11:24:00

Wow…this is what I must compete against.

Are you eating those losses, or are we all dining at your chit sandwich drive-thru?

Comment by Resistor
2013-06-25 11:25:14

Hey, at least you didn’t throw money away on rent!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by perkonkrusts
2013-06-25 12:28:54

I’m proud to say not one penny of your taxes has gone to help.

For me, real estate has not been an investment at all, more of a choice which cost me lots of money.

Don’t forget, though, that tons of people got very, very lucky during those days (sold in bubble areas and bought in non-bubble areas), and are still better off now. My story is just one of millions of stories, both good and bad. After my Florida experience, I was a believer in the gloom and doom, now I’m convinced that the worst has passed.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Resistor
2013-06-25 14:52:31

“I’m proud to say not one penny of your taxes has gone to help.”

So those were all cash deals, then?

 
 
 
 
Comment by "Uncle Fed, why won't you love ME?"
2013-06-25 10:54:20

Does your friend see a lot of Asians running around?

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2013-06-25 06:13:41

‘A $150 million condo hotel project near the Ocean Center and a new Hard Rock Hotel to the south will also be putting armies of construction workers on the job within the next six months when those new developments kick off.’

Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2013-06-25 06:32:16

Ahhhh, yes. Condo-tels again. They are already dusting off and trotting out the failed ideas of Bubble 1.0. This really is escalating quickly.

Comment by Ben Jones
2013-06-25 06:41:26

That’s what I thought when I saw this. I remember at least one failed condo-tel in Daytona. Seems like it was a big builder project; DR Horton maybe. Recently I watched the sequel to The Hangover. When it was over I thought, it was the same movie but set in Thailand.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2013-06-25 08:28:19

I can understand the allure of a lot of different property types…I’ve never understood condo-tels. Pure speculative fever, IMHO. Living there is simply like living in a hotel, but more expensive. If you want to live in a hotel, rent the room by the night…there are lots of them.

 
Comment by United States of Moral Hazard
2013-06-25 10:12:06

There is an endless supply of fools who will be parted from their money. “Real estate” is the one area where even the shoeshine boy feels comfortable “investing.” After all, it’s where fortunes are made. We’re right back in the soup.

 
Comment by travanx
2013-06-25 21:24:36

Who is building a condo-tel already after what happened last time only a few years ago? That seems doomed to fail already.

What I am seeing are Apartments going up with insane rental prices. One complex just went up over here in Glendale, CA for about $1700 for a 375 sqft. unit as the cheap one.

 
 
 
Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2013-06-25 06:28:47

Does this episode not seem to be evolving much faster than Bubble 1.0? The MSM is now printing scare pieces about people stampeding mortgage offices to get a loan before interest rates rise any higher and people so desperate that they are buying house sight-unseen. The collapse of Bubble 2.0 will indeed be epic and it will arrive much faster than almost everyone can imagine.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-25 06:46:53

The bounce and second leg down are arriving much later than I thought possible. Years later.

 
Comment by scdave
2013-06-25 07:08:33

Well, consumer confidence jumped….New home sales jumped…Case/Shiller up…Now maybe we can understand why the fed chairman said what he said the other day…He is trying to slow this run away freight-train down…

Comment by waitinginpa
2013-06-25 07:19:49

I hope this is finally the second leg down….I must admit that being the constant contrarian is wearing me down.

We have good jobs, good savings, nice enough rental….but live frugually and definitely don’t have the appearance of keeping up with the joneses…and I sometimes doubt myself for going against the norm. Maybe we should just enjoy our lives and not think about tomorrow. Everyone else seems happy doing this. I know I could never do that…but it seems like it would be nice.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-25 07:24:39

You should enjoy life, as much as possible!

Doesn’t mean you have to act stupid.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 07:32:59

Sit tight and remember this. Evaluate all items in a transaction separately. The lot, the structure, etc. You’ve been around here long enough that you know what it costs to build. Evaluate the structure and depreciate it from the per/sqfoot construction cost based on condition. Lots are cheap in general.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2013-06-25 08:09:47

I too, understand your frustration. I’m old enough to remember when the meme for success was, ‘work hard, be honest, avoid debt, live below your means, don’t take stupid, unnecessary risks and if something looks too good to be true- it probably is’. Seems like pretty common sense stuff to me. What the hell happened in this country?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by waitinginpa
2013-06-25 08:32:37

That is pretty much what I said to my hubby this morning. We are raising our kids to be good citizens. My fear is that they will get to be more frustrated than we are as they will have even fewer peers with those same core values.

 
Comment by Al
2013-06-25 11:27:58

“‘work hard, be honest, avoid debt, live below your means, don’t take stupid, unnecessary risks and if something looks too good to be true- it probably is’”

I’m in my late 30s and have followed this path. It worked well and I consider myself quite comfortable. My impression is that the sensible route is still more likely to lead to success, but less likely so than previously. It also seems like the get-rich-quick scammer routes are becoming more successful than previously. I try not to think too much about what things will be like when my kids reach adulthood.

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 11:41:13

“I’m in my late 30s”

Now we understand.

 
 
Comment by perkonkrusts
2013-06-25 08:29:39

Waitinginpa, how long have you already waited, and how long are you willing to wait? I bought and I think that’s the right choice for me and I will find facts to back that up. HA and Blue rent so they will find facts to back that up.

I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses either. My car is 11 years old, my wife’s is 10 years old. My clothes are crap, I don’t even wear a watch. My sunglasses are $5-$10 at Walmart. I’m on the Straight Talk Walmart phone plan with an outdated phone. And I chose to buy a house instead of rent. Buying or renting a house doesn’t say anything else about you, you’re not selling out to the man if you buy.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 08:52:52

And you’re underwater how many tens of thousands of dollars?

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-25 09:08:09

LOL. I own property without a mortgage. I live on my boat when there is no ice, because that is what works best for me. I have rented off and on. My expenses are low, but I have a nice ride and expensive sunglasses and some expensive hobbies.

Like you, I have bought many things that are not worth what I paid for them. No need to make excuses. No need to throw your whole weight and resources into the biggest housing mania in history because you have the nesting instinct. Certainly no need to tell others it is a great idea. Absolutely the worst time possible to buy a big house with borrowed money.

 
Comment by perkonkrusts
2013-06-25 11:07:59

“Absolutely the worst time possible to buy a big house with borrowed money.”

Blue, you’re getting to my point exactly. In your opinion it’s the worst time, in my opinion 5/6 years ago was much worse. My question is how long should he wait until that better time? 10 years? 20? It sounds like he’s been waiting, and waiting, and waiting for the big drop, yet home prices are doing the opposite of dropping. He’s saying that waiting is getting old, and if I was him it would be getting old to me too.

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 11:14:22

“yet home prices are doing the opposite of dropping.”

Prices are inflating rapidly in a very few areas in the country. The rest is falling.

 
Comment by perkonkrusts
2013-06-25 11:44:14

“Prices are inflating rapidly in a very few areas in the country. The rest is falling.”

I don’t know about “the rest is falling”. There are a few places falling, but most are stable at worst.

Regardless, I’ll keep asking you the same question I’ve always asked HA, how long should he wait?

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2013-06-25 13:03:01

Regardless, I’ll keep asking you the same question I’ve always asked HA, how long should he wait?

As long as it takes for the risk to fall to an acceptable level?

Once the steam roller has passed by I’m happy to do the hard work of digging nickels out of asphalt rather than the easy work of picking them off the pavement in front of the steam roller.

 
Comment by perkonkrusts
2013-06-25 13:30:27

“As long as it takes for the risk to fall to an acceptable level? Once the steam roller has passed…”

Carl, once again, that’s the problem. He’s been waiting for that to happen, and it never does. If you were like him and really wanted to buy something, but thought prices were too high, how many years would you wait while hoping prices will fall? How many years????? What if it’s already been 10 years, would you wait another 10? If so, you’ve already waited 20 years, 1/3 of your adult life, and 1/4 of your entire life.

 
Comment by bk
2013-06-25 14:52:03

Real estate moves in huge cycles. The next cycle won’t bottom for decades.
My own solution is to buy a very, very cheap house, so I’m not stuck with a large asset that will be much lower in the future. Or just rent.
Having said that, the real estate market will still hold up for a while longer. Rising interest rates won’t kill real estate yet.
Extreme patience is required to make money in markets.
It’s up to you whether to heed that advice.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2013-06-25 14:58:20

Hey, I’d like to buy too under good conditions. But I’ll wait as long as I need to wait. It’s not like I’m suffering now…and I question anybody who thinks they are.

It sounds like you’re saying the risk of picking up nickels in front of steamrollers is worth it if there’s any chance you might have to wait very long. The soldier in me says that kind of thinking is what gets you crushed. I think there’s a lot at stake here and the risks are higher than people think.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-25 19:55:48

How long do you wait before you go fight in the Crusades? It was wrong and it would cost you dearly, yet you felt you needed to go. “Owning” a home costs way more than not. So how long do you wait to commit financial suicide? If things are never going to change then what would be your decision? The neighbors do it.

 
 
 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2013-06-25 09:53:51

It reminds me a bit of the first half of the 20th century: the First World War was “the war to end all wars,” but it was followed only twenty years later by an even more destructive conflict. Given the policies undertaken by the world’s economic leaders, which essentially bet everything on restoring a system that is guaranteed to fail, I don’t see any way how the next collapse isn’t several orders of magnitude above 2008 in its scope. And we’re flooring the accelerator to get there.

In a similar vein, after reading John Tuccillo’s statements I am forced to ask why conventional economists cannot divorce the idea that computer models have eliminated or minimized risk. And the sophistication of those relying on the models does not matter.

 
Comment by "Uncle Fed, why won't you love ME?"
2013-06-25 10:57:27

Yes, it does seem to be moving faster to me.

 
 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 07:49:27

“The paid PR thugs and hired hands are busy posting here today. And we’ve noticed that some of them who pose as long term posters have recently had difficulty keeping their predilections and intent hidden from all of us. They know who they are and you should too. They can’t be missed. They are easily recognized as they are the same people who plant the seeds of doubt through lofty platitudes and carefully crafted responses. They imply “housing has turned around” and sometimes come right out and say it. They’ll invoke tall tales of “we bought” to disarm you and clear you a personal path to financial hell. These literary illusions are flat out myths and when you read them, your BS radar should be screaming. Beware.”

Make no mistake about it…. have no doubt in your minds. Housing today is twice the mess it was in 2008. The personal financial risks of buying housing at current inflated asking prices is tremendous.

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 07:52:46

If you take on mortgage debt at current massively inflated housing prices, you’ll enslave yourself for the rest of your life.

“Debt is bondage.”~ Suze Orman, May 11, 2013

Don’t Be A Debt Donkey®

Comment by inchbyinch
2013-06-25 09:56:18

OY Vey, HA.
Suzy Orman is a weak data point.
I’d go with Peter Schiff.

We are debt free.

 
 
Comment by mofa
2013-06-25 08:50:31

Good things to keep in mind, but peoples’ life circumstances are important, and there are properties that meet their criteria. I think prices are artificially high, particularly in So Cal at the moment, but then again, not every decision is purely decided on spreadsheets.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 09:51:45

Decisions are always founded on price. ALWAYS

If you buy a house in CA, you’re going to lose a lifetime of earnings.

 
Comment by inchbyinch
2013-06-25 09:53:11

mofa
Well stated. We bought a home w/ our criteria, paid cash at a fair price, and are the happiest EVER. It’s our most modest home in So Ca.

We were caught in the bubble post sale, and were paying rent for no reason. We waited out the bubble deflation, and thought out this purchase. So far, we’ve save $25K in rent.

You’re right, it’s a case by case basis.

Live and let live, especially if it’s OPM.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 10:25:43

“So far, we’ve save $25K in rent.”

And you lost 50% of your life savings.

Good job Donkey.

Comment by inchbyinch
2013-06-25 11:57:25

Ha
We are living house payment/rent free the rest of our lives. $25K X 40+ more years at least. Sorry, you’re wrong.

Plus we’re really HAPPY!

And I’m a lady, not a donkey. Who raised you?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by MiddleCoaster
2013-06-25 13:10:29

Hyenas raised him. At least, that’s how he acts.

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 18:01:35

Donkeys and Sad Pandas. Helpless hopeless things.

 
 
 
 
Comment by "Uncle Fed, why won't you love ME?"
2013-06-25 11:08:09

“Not every decision is purely decided on spreadsheets”.

Is this being used as a sales tactic? Is mofa attempting to fool impulsive buyers into overpaying because they think the house is cute? How many millions were burned by such purchase behavior over the last five years? Are they happy now? It may be true that money ain’t everything, but money is a lot. Only the 1% would ever think otherwise.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 11:12:31

“Is this being used as a sales tactic?”

Yes. And it’s used as an entry point for our other lying POS “inchbyinch”

Comment by inchbyinch
2013-06-25 11:59:06

HA
I am not a lying POS.
You’re a troll who should be put
on probation from Ben, imho.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by inchbyinch
2013-06-25 12:01:03

HA
You’re scum.
I will not respond anymore to
your attacks.

Ben should ban you.
You’re toxic.

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 18:02:53

You’re a liar. You can’t answer a simple question.

 
 
Comment by mofa
2013-06-25 19:53:13

I’m an engineer, and I have a great deal of difficulty reading your posts. There are very few situations that can be reduced to black & white; I generally have to accommodate outliers — data points that are several sigma out, because that’s just the way the universe is.

The things you say generally land on the “correct” side of the spectrum, but I think you may benefit if you look a little deeper and think about other issues. I tend to use the phrase, “the tyranny of perfection.” Example: there’s a route that is generally the fastest route, which is great, because everyone’s in a rush, but when that goes from “this is the fastest” to “you’re stupid if you take any other route,” then you’re sorta giving up a little bit of free will.

And actually, note that I said spreadsheets, not price. I’m having a great deal of difficulty with a recent generation of managers who think that spreadsheets tell them useful information in all situations. I consider spreadsheets to be “stateless” — they show results under the assumption that the data and results are at an equilibrium, but for some situations, you need to go into Matlab and run a few hundred (or a few thousand) Monte Carlo simulations to look at expectation values and ascribe some sort of confidence value. Heck, when we give radar performance measures, we use the term T90 — the range at which 90 percent of targets will be tracked through cross-over. We can’t guarantee that last 10 per cent, because we just can’t; it would be dishonest to say otherwise.

I’ll agree that price should count for perhaps 95% of a decision, but there are other things in the mix.

There are people who are absolutely delusional and think that they MUST own a house. They can make very foolish decisions in which price and money could swamp all other considerations and ruin their lives. However, some of those delusional people might be less than completely delusional, and can afford to pay a premium for the psychic benefits they get. I don’t think it’s appropriate to call them losers; they’re just making choices that make sense in their value system.

If, for instance, someone paid cash or took on a mortgage, and that mortgage is (a) fixed and (b) at or below what they’d be willing to pay, and they don’t give a rat’s ass if they ever sell it because it’s where they want to live for the next twenty years, why dump on them?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-25 20:46:22

My Sanctimonious A$$hole Meter is going off.

Why dump on them?

Look bud….. go buy a house. DO IT. Just don’t come back here looking for vindication. You’ll get something but it won’t be vindication for paying a massively inflated price for what is always a depreciating asset.

 
Comment by travanx
2013-06-25 21:42:50

As an Engineer too, mofa, you make sense. Some of us do want to buy. Some don’t. I think the current market really depends on where you are looking. And we went from a downtown LA loft, 845 sqft. and 2 parking spaces, that went up in price quite a bit from $2300ish to $2700, to looking for a rental again. As we looked I couldn’t believe that buying with mortgage, tax and insurance was cheaper in the areas we were looking in. That made no sense and still doesn’t. We ended up buying as it was cheaper than renting. Now rent is still climbing along with house prices.

Something is off with the other poster. Just about everything we buy depreciates. Let me guess they don’t eat, don’t have a car, don’t have a phone, and just sits their posting on a depreciating computer.

 
 
 
 
Comment by travanx
2013-06-25 21:35:28

I don’t think the mania will be letting up anytime soon. Since buying I have been coming back to this blog to keep track of the negatives. But for an eye opener look at what is selling and has been sold in the zipcode 90042. That’s Highland Park where last Summer there were many drive by killings. Echo Park, Silver Lake, Glassel Park, and a few other North East LA areas are on fire. I still get my updates on when new properties come up and its just insane how few there are and the inventory is more shoddy houses for higher prices.

Some can say what they want, but you can go check these areas out throughout the last year. Maybe next week everything collapses, it sure looks that way, but maybe there is still more left to prices going up. I don’t doubt that the bubble bursting is going to be amazing. If our house goes up to a certain price we are out of here and travelling for a year or so.

Comment by Ben Jones
2013-06-25 21:51:34

‘If our house goes up to a certain price we are out of here’

Yes, the old ‘we can always sell’ line.

‘I don’t doubt that the bubble bursting is going to be amazing’

Amazing is one way to put it. Here’s another:

‘DR Horton chief executive Donald Tomnitz told investors that the weak US housing market would continue to hit home prices during the year. ‘I don’t want to be too sophisticated here, but ‘07 is going to suck, all 12 months of the calendar year,’ he said. ‘I don’t think ‘08 is going to be a great year, but it’s going to be much better than ‘07,’ he added.’

http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/?p=2456

 
 
 
Comment by "Uncle Fed, why won't you love ME?"
2013-06-25 10:45:03

““John Tuccillo, chief economist for Florida Realtors, challenged that assumption. Investors today have sophisticated financial models that tell them how much they can pay for a house and still get a decent return from renting it out. Once prices rise too high, they’ll stop buying. That should keep investor buying from getting out of control, he said. Already, a shortage of inexpensive houses is forcing investors to move upscale and buy pricier homes, he said.”

So which one is it? Are the investors constrained by their sophisticated financial models, or are they forced to buy pricier homes? It can’t be both.

Comment by snake charmer
2013-06-25 12:54:34

There’s no such thing as a contradiction anymore.

 
 
Comment by "Uncle Fed, why won't you love ME?"
2013-06-25 10:49:52

per.spec.tive
[per-spek-tiv]

noun
1.
a technique of depicting volumes and spatial relationships on a flat surface. Compare aerial perspective, linear perspective.

2.
a picture employing this technique, especially one in which it is prominent: an architect’s perspective of a house.

3.
a visible scene, especially one extending to a distance; vista: a perspective on the main axis of an estate.

4.
the state of existing in space before the eye: The elevations look all right, but the building’s composition is a failure in perspective.

5.
the state of one’s ideas, the facts known to one, etc., in having a meaningful interrelationship: You have to live here a few years to see local conditions in perspective.

 
Comment by Kirisdad
2013-06-25 14:22:17

Wow! try to read the Tampa tribune article I’ll paraphrase; In early 2007, people, in Tampa got 18% of their income from home equity. Americans ONLY got 10% of their income from home equity. End of the story, people in Tampa may soon derive more income from home equity.
This is the new America folks! income from home equity. Invest in Wall street! we’re rich again!

 
Comment by doom
2013-06-25 15:35:23

Nothing makes sense, couple across the street had to two short sales and a loan mod on three different properties a BMW repro 8 months ago, last night they tell me they leased a MBZ GLK for $755 a month go figure?

Comment by United States of Moral Hazard
2013-06-25 16:01:19

What- you bought into the lie that easy credit was no more? Car dealerships are approving people in the 400’s. Bottom of the barrel, baby.

 
Comment by travanx
2013-06-25 21:46:26

All you need are a few family members to rotate that scheme forever. I grew up in a City that are known for being pros at scamming everything they go near. To watch people go into foreclosure and pull up in a Ferrari and some other rare cars is quite the spectacle. And all the while ripping everything out of the house to make some extra cash.

 
 
Comment by Mark Robert
2013-06-25 20:56:09

If I were living in NV, AZ, CA, FL, or any other area that was pretty bubbly during the housing boom, I’d wait for now. A lot of these areas look very bubbly again right now.

Comment by Tarara Boomdea
2013-06-26 04:57:59

Inventory is increasing at a encouraging clip in Vegas. The newly out from underwater are making a break for it. In my area a few houses are now showing estimate decreases (FWIW, Zillow); I also see an increase in listing price drops. Rents, I am told are falling, though I don’t see it.

An agent who has a radio show here is using trending software (don’t know what kind); he says that some areas in Vegas and Henderson have peaked and are now falling or projected to fall in the next six months.

Anyone know anything about Adkins Capital Mgmt. ($100 to the public for a year for their “Residential Home Valuation Analyzer”)? Any worth to these types of programs?

 
 
Comment by snands
2013-06-25 22:24:29

I am one of those trying to upgrade to a better home from my existing town home in the northern va area and scared to death at the price increases. That single family home will remain a dream for me. Seriously considering relocating to dallas area

 
Comment by Skydiver
2013-06-25 22:42:31

I plan to buy a townhouse or condo in Chicago area for $70-80k. (North Suburbs). Just finalized the deal in the middle of June and received cash $80k from the real estate sale abroad. I was monitoring the market since December 2012, everything looked good for me as a buyer, low price, lots of properties - it was easy to find awesome 2bd 2br townhome even in Mar-Apr 2013.

Now the market in this area is empty! Only 3-5 new property listings a week. Yesterday I’ve found one good variant and called my broker to make an offer - discovered that there were 14 offers already in 2 days for this townhome.

What do you think is the best strategy in this case? Wait until Sep-Oct, or try to win the highest bid, because the price will only go up even in Sep-Nov.2013?

 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

Trackback responses to this post