June 26, 2013

Bits Bucket for June 26, 2013

Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.

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Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 02:49:22

“Why buy at house at these massively inflated asking prices when everyone knows you’ll get ripped off? Rent for half the monthly cost and buy later after prices crater for 65% less.”

Comment by goon squad
2013-06-26 07:02:58

I have so much money left after “throwing money away on rent” every month that I don’t know where to throw it.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 07:17:26

There’s nothing like a ballooning bank account and living it up at the same time while watching debt-junkies suck down their favorite beverage as they sink ever lower into their debt-craters.

Comment by AmazingRuss
2013-06-26 09:52:04

I never throw my extra money. I prefer to bathe in it.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-06-26 12:14:00

I put mine in the penny jar.

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 03:04:49

Are your investments getting whacked by bond vigilantes?

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 03:14:53

Or even waterboarded?!

It looks to me like more of a pump-and-dump operation rather than waterboarding. Not to mention the familiar sounds of greater fools left holding the bag and sobbing after the first wave of fly-by-night investors successfully exited the burning theater.

Bond vigilantes waterboard investors, markets whacked again
Interest-sensitive issues pummeled. Brief respite likely today. Photo: Ad Council PSA*
Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - Morning Market Maven by Terry Ponick

WASHINGTON, June 25, 2013 — Wall Street looks to take a brief break from its Mad Slasher ways today, due, according to the punditocracy, to an impressive Case-Shiller Home Price report. According to CNBC, “U.S. home prices took a major leap in April, setting a new monthly record for gains. From March to April, home price gained 2.6 percent and 2.5 percent for the top ten and top 20 U.S. markets respectively, according to the latest S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Indices. Average prices rose 11.6 percent and 12.1 percent in April from a year ago.”

The happy talk continued. “‘The recovery is definitely broad based,’ said David Blitzer of S&P Dow Jones in a release. ‘The two composites showed the largest year-over-year gains in seven years.’”

That’s nice and everything, but the HFTs that are ready to trade this news and spike the market up this morning, at least briefly, are not looking ahead to the fact that, with current interest rates rising, at least short term, May’s numbers, to be reported next month, aren’t looking so hot, with home prices in many non-urban areas across the country taking a significant hit.

We wouldn’t like to be in housing stocks when that news gets reported in late July. But then again, this could be a quick trade for those who don’t have to worry about a day job. Or the HFTs, for that matter.

More profound has been the horrendous action in the bond market, of which the Maven, alas, has been another casualty. We’ve mentioned here for some time that we have a modest legacy bond position dating from a risky move we took in March 2009, buying a small batch of B-rated bonds for huge discounts from face value. Bearing abnormally high interest coupons, these bonds have soared since then, giving us paper profits in some instances in excess of 50 percent—almost unheard-of in the generally boring world of bonds.

We are now second-guessing ourselves a bit. All these bonds are still above par. But over the last few trading days, they’ve taken a tremendous haircut—particularly yesterday—taking a nice chunk of value out of our overall portfolio; the first time we’ve experienced this, at least to this extent, since 2009. It’s disconcerting. But then again, it was bound to happen anyway, albeit in slo-mo.

SEE RELATED: Monday morning markets: Nightmare on Wall Street

Comment by Jingle Male
2013-06-26 05:41:13

The observations noted by Terry Ponick (Whac’s post above) are holding true at the ground level here in the Sacramento market.

Prices have jumped significantly in the last year (30% plus) and now the market is cooling off. The investors are sidelined because the rents have not increased, so returns are not there. The potential new homeowners are getting slammed with higher price points and higher interest rates. There has been a definite shift in the market since the beginning of June.

Comment by rms
2013-06-26 06:10:49

“There has been a definite shift in the market since the beginning of June.”

Are trends shorter than 30-days valid?

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 07:36:25

“Are trends shorter than 30-days valid?”

They are when you just passed the point when a bubble popped.

Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 08:48:23

They are when you just passed the point when a bubble popped.

And this is SUMMER. If they can’t sell now, this $hit is cooked.

Comment by cactus
2013-06-26 07:59:42

My wife drove on Arisotle st. in Simi to see if a house was for sale. Zillow had about 2 homes listed.

she counted 10 homes for sale

Overhead resistance. supply is comming on the market because of higher prices.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2013-06-26 11:09:53

One of my regular bicycling routes goes down a street that now has five house for sale. In just one block.

Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 08:47:06

The investors are sidelined because the rents have not increased

Who could have guessed that?

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Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2013-06-26 10:36:50

I wonder what they will do when rents start to decrease due to oversupply?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2013-06-26 11:07:40

The investors are sidelined because the rents have not increased, so returns are not there.

Rents are much more sensitive to economic realities than house prices.

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Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2013-06-26 14:32:37

You can’t borrow rent. Well, not from banks anyway.

I wonder if they’ve considered that as a future growth opportunity?…

Comment by cactus
2013-06-26 07:56:51

GDP was revised way down interest rates zooming up is not going to happen

bond vigilantes haha

Comment by michael
2013-06-26 08:08:04

that revision should send the DOW to the moon!

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 03:21:10

This guy’s writing is very entertaining. However, I object to the subtle insinutation that investing in the stock market somehow differs from gambling at a rigged casino.

From last week:

Bernanke taper tantrum ignites Mickey Mouse stock swoon
Wednesday’s downside action continues this morning.
Photo: Disney souvenir photograph, undated
Thursday, June 20, 2013 - Morning Market Maven by Terry Ponick

WASHINGTON, June 20, 2013 — On the trading floor, anything can happen. Another nasty market moment blasted Wall Street like a financial thunderclap yesterday afternoon. After roughly two and one-half days of light but lofty trading action, eager bears interpreted the Fed Chair’s comments Wednesday afternoon as an indication that the Fed’s threatened “tapering” activities had likely started this past January. Bang! The market promptly collapsed like a surprise Florida sinkhole.

Okay, we’re exaggerating. But, in the twinkling of an eye, markets plunged a good 200 Dow points after HFTs and other itchy trader fingers had taken about ten minutes to scrutinize The Oracle’s comments.

As we write this, we’re a few minutes from Thursday’s opening bell, and futures indicate a follow-through downdraft will commence shortly, perhaps as bad or worse than yesterday’s flash-flood style waterfall decline.

But what will follow is hard to say, as big market opens, whether up or down, often get blunted or reversed later in the day. Add to this tendency the facts that A. volume generally remains light, relatively speaking, even on big down days; and B. we’re at the end of a particularly volatile options expiration week; and you have what the old “Mickey Mouse Club” TV show used to call “Anything Can Happen Day.” That was the one day in the week when, we figure in hindsight, the producers of the Disney kids’ show punted and went with whatever personality or theme they could come up with.

The same holds true with this market (which has just opened down 103 Dow points, BTW). It’s “Anything Can Happen Day” on Wall Street for sure, meaning the day and the week will either end up way down, or not.

Comment by cactus
2013-06-26 08:01:57

As we write this, we’re a few minutes from Thursday’s opening bell, and futures indicate a follow-through downdraft will commence shortly, perhaps as bad or worse than yesterday’s flash-flood style waterfall decline.”

no wrong markets up on weak GDP ie no interest rate spike in the future. who writes this crap some business drama queen on there 3rd expresso ?

Comment by cactus
2013-06-26 08:03:47

todays Wednsday so I don’t even know what that article is about ?

Old news I guess or the writer really is drinking too much caffine

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Comment by cactus
2013-06-26 08:06:31

WASHINGTON, June 20, 2013

old news is better than no news or why do I even come to this board anymore ?

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 09:35:29

It about time it dawned on you junkie.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 03:23:55

Would this be a better time to run with the bulls or hibernate with the bears?

You decide. And try to avoid stopped-clock contrarian thinking while you are at it.

June 25, 2013, 8:30 a.m. EDT
Worst is yet to come
Commentary: There is still too much bullishness
By Mark Hulbert, MarketWatch

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. (MarketWatch) — Bad news: The bottom of the decline that began one month ago has not yet been seen.

That, at least, is the conclusion that emerges from a contrarian analysis of stock market sentiment. Simply put: Bullishness remains too prevalent.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 03:31:02

Never mind the unemployment rate’s straight line glide path to 6.5% by Fall 2014, or that the UE rate in the largest state, California, is falling faster than other parts of the U.S. at an accelerating rate of decline. If gobzillionaire Gross sez it’s a long shot, I guess it is a long shot then. And the emperor’s new clothes are neither thin nor transparent.

June 25, 2013, 3:54 p.m. EDT
Bill Gross: Fed tapering plan may be hasty
By William H. Gross

“June Gloom,” as the fog and clouds that often linger over the Southern California coast this time of year are known, appears to have spread to the Federal Reserve. At his press conference last week, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke said the central bank may begin to let up on the gas pedal of monetary stimulus by tapering its asset purchases later this year and ending them in 2014.

We agree that QE must end. It has distorted incentives and inflated asset prices to artificial levels. But we think the Fed’s plan may be too hasty.

Fog may be obscuring the Fed’s view of the economy—in particular, the structural impediments that will inhibit its ability to achieve higher growth and inflation. Bernanke said the Fed expects the unemployment rate to fall to about 7% by the middle of next year. However, we think this is a long shot.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 08:05:29

Bond sell-off creates fits for the ‘King’
The Wall Street Journal
26 Jun 2013

Bond king Bill Gross is one of the hardest hit from the broad credit market sell-off.

Pacific Investment Management Co.’s $285.2bn Total Return Bond Fund has lost 3.65% in June alone, making it the 12th-worst performer among 177 similar bond funds tracked by data firm Lipper.

The June losses come after investors pulled $1.32bn out of the fund in May, its first outflow since 2011. Newport Beach, California-based Pimco is a unit of Allianz SE.

The fund is now on a two-month losing streak, the latest evidence that the weeks-long sell-off in bonds ranging from ultra-safe Treasury debt to emerging market securities has unnerved some of the most trusted hands in the investing community.

Even longtime investors fled. Ross Schmidt, a Denver-based financial adviser who has long invested client money in the fund, says he recently moved money out for the first time. “It was really painful, actually,” Schmidt said. “It was like saying goodbye to an old friend.”

Gross isn’t alone. Bond-market fears have pummeled mutual funds across the industry. All similar bond funds tracked by Lipper have performed poorly so far in June, posting an average loss of 2.65%. They are down an average of 4.29% since the end of April.

“In the short run, good managers can be out of place,” said Jeff Tjornehoj, head of Americas research at Lipper.

The bout of poor performance after years of strong returns is a blow for Gross, who for years has presented himself as the face of the surging bond market. The Pimco Total Return fund has returned 6.69% a year, on average, over the last 15 years, according to Morningstar, as of Monday. That compares with 5.49% average annual returns on the benchmark Barclays US Aggregate Bond Index. In 2010, Morningstar named Gross the best manager of the decade.

Mark Kiesel, a protégé of Gross, has fared even worse in the recent rout. His $11bn Pimco Investment Grade Corporate Bond Fund has lost 4.48% in June through Monday, the biggest loser among intermediate investment-grade bond funds tracked by Lipper.

Kiesel was named in January as US fixed-income fund manager of the year by Morningstar after his fund posted a 15% return in 2012, which beat the results of 98% of its competitors, including Gross’s fund.

Comment by Carl Morris
2013-06-26 08:56:12

Sounds exactly like an addict saying yeah yeah…you’re right. I gotta quit. But I’ve got a lot going on this week. Next week for sure…

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 08:07:34

Most interesting aspect of the “end of QE3 anticipation” market adjustment so far:

- It is traditional safe-haven investments (e.g. bonds and gold) which are seeing their prices get seriously whacked.

- By comparison, housing and the stock market are holding up reasonably well.

Comment by Bluestar
2013-06-26 12:20:23

Seems like the turn in the bond market was flagged by the credit upgrade from S&P back on June 10th. The mirror image of when they downgraded it during the debt ceiling debate and the bond market went on to a series of new highs a few months later. If the GOP blocks the debt ceiling again things might go haywire.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 12:51:17

“Seems like the turn in the bond market was flagged by the credit upgrade from S&P back on June 10th.”

It actually started on May 2nd. Only folks who paid very close attention to Treasury yields even noticed it.

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 17:58:00

Investment Banking
June 24, 2013, 9:02 pm
Exit From the Bond Market Is Turning Into a Stampede
Ben Bernanke, the Fed chief, has spoken of slowing bond purchases.
Alex Wong/Getty Images

Wall Street never thought it would be this bad.

Over the last two months, and particularly over the last two weeks, investors have been exiting their bond investments with unexpected ferocity, moves that continued through Monday.

A bond sell-off has been anticipated for years, given the long run of popularity that corporate and government bonds have enjoyed. But most strategists expected that investors would slowly transfer out of bonds, allowing interest rates to slowly drift up.

Instead, since the Federal Reserve chairman, Ben S. Bernanke, recently suggested that the strength of the economic recovery might allow the Fed to slow down its bond-buying program, waves of selling have convulsed the markets.

The recent pain has spilled over into stock markets, pushing the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index down an additional 1.2 percent on Monday. But the real pressure has been felt in the bigger and more closely watched bond market. The value of outstanding United States government 10-year notes has fallen 10 percent since a high in early May.

The selling has been most visible among retail investors, who have sold a record $48 billion worth of shares in bond mutual funds so far in June, according to the data company TrimTabs. But hedge funds and other big institutional investors have also been closing out positions or stepping back from the bond market.

“The feeling you are getting out there is that people are selling first and asking questions later,” said Hans Humes, chief executive of the hedge fund Greylock Capital.

The anxiety has been heightened by recent instability in the Chinese banking sector, where lending has shown signs of freezing up. That led Chinese stocks down particularly sharply, with the Shanghai composite index ending Monday down 5.3 percent.

But Mr. Humes and many others in the market say they think that the recent swings are driven more by fear than by a rational assessment of what bonds are worth. This could lead to crises for some big investors who took speculative bets, but it makes many analysts skeptical that the panic will lead to any broader instability in the financial system.

“The fundamental story is not so bad — you are not talking about the system teetering on the edge of anything,” Mr. Humes said.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 21:39:06

So my Vanguard REIT fund investment got whacked™ by about 10% or so since the bond market selloff. But it’s all good, as I was up by over 20% above where I bought last year. Better yet, the whacking comes with the prospect of deflation, which could make the real purchasing power of a given nominal dollar value of the fund balance and income stream go up over time.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 21:56:19

I computed the percentage losses someone who bought a 30-year T-bond on May 2, 2013 to yield 2.82% would incur at different stopping points for the long-term rate spike. A 4% yield would imply a 20% loss. By the time the 30-year yield surpasses 7%, such an investor would be down by 50%.

Yield Loss
2.82 0.00%
2.92 -1.99%
3.02 -3.93%
3.12 -5.82%
3.22 -7.66%
3.32 -9.45%
3.42 -11.20%
3.52 -12.91%
3.62 -14.57%
3.72 -16.19%
3.82 -17.77%
3.92 -19.30%
4.02 -20.81%
4.12 -22.27%
4.22 -23.70%
4.32 -25.09%
4.42 -26.45%
4.52 -27.77%
4.62 -29.06%
4.72 -30.32%
4.82 -31.55%
4.92 -32.75%
5.02 -33.92%
5.12 -35.06%
5.22 -36.18%
5.32 -37.27%
5.42 -38.33%
5.52 -39.36%
5.62 -40.37%
5.72 -41.36%
5.82 -42.33%
5.92 -43.27%
6.02 -44.19%
6.12 -45.08%
6.22 -45.96%
6.32 -46.82%
6.42 -47.65%
6.52 -48.47%
6.62 -49.27%
6.72 -50.05%
6.82 -50.81%
6.92 -51.55%
7.02 -52.28%

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 03:34:04

Is the U.S. unemployment rate on track to dip below 6.5% in 2014?

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 03:35:39

Steady hiring pushes down unemployment rates in half of US states
By Associated Press, June 21, 2013

In this Thursday, May 30, 2013, photo, job seekers line up to talk to recruiters during a job fair held in Atlanta. The government reports on state unemployment rates for May, on Friday, June 21, 2013.

WASHINGTON — Unemployment rates fell in half of U.S. states last month, led by drops in California, West Virginia, New York and Hawaii.

The Labor Department said Friday that unemployment rates rose in 17 states and were unchanged in eight.

Hiring has been steady nationwide, leading to a better job market in many areas of the country. Employers added jobs in 33 states last month. The biggest gains were in Ohio, Texas and Michigan.

Comment by Mr. Smithers
2013-06-26 05:58:07

“The biggest gains were in Ohio, Texas and Michigan.”

No, no, no. That is impossible.

All 3 of those states are run by crazy right wing Tea Party Republicans that have cut spending and taxes. And as my HBB liberal betters have told me consistently, only tax and spend liberal Democrat policies create jobs.

Comment by ibbots
2013-06-26 06:13:21

Michigan is a red state?

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Comment by AmazingRuss
2013-06-26 06:29:04

Shhh… No facts allowed.

Comment by 2banana
2013-06-26 06:57:43

Michigan is a red state?


The Republican Party holds all of the top statewide elected offices: Governor, Attorney General, and Secretary of State. In addition, the GOP also controls both the Michigan Senate and House of Representatives.


Michigan just become a “right to work state”

And jobs have come back…

Who could have thunk it?

Comment by oxide
2013-06-26 07:00:11

Ohio isn’t exactly red either. More like “HGTV pale eggplant.”

I’d like the see the breakdown of whether this employment is real career work, lucky-duck work, or right-to-work-for-less work.

Comment by goon squad
2013-06-26 07:38:53

“lucky-duck work, or right-to-work-for-less work”

The Job Creators© (called creators to make them sound God-like) are creating these kinds of jobs.

And the taxpayer will make up the difference with food stamps, Earned Income Tax Credits, school breakfasts and lunches, Obamaphones, et cetera.

Comment by 2banana
2013-06-26 07:47:28

As opposed to the lefty democrat workers paradises of Detroit, Camden, Newark, Philly, Cleveland, Buffala, etc. ?

The Job Creators© (called creators to make them sound God-like) are creating these kinds of jobs.

And the taxpayer will make up the difference with food stamps, Earned Income Tax Credits, school breakfasts and lunches, Obamaphones, et cetera.

Comment by United States of Moral Hazard
2013-06-26 08:37:27


Like the cheese?

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 07:38:29

Why do you always deny the obvious facts: It is precisely because Ohio, Texas and Michigan are run by Republicans that they have seen the biggest employment gains.

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Comment by Steve J
2013-06-26 14:33:12


Comment by In Colorado
2013-06-26 08:04:07

All 3 of those states are run by crazy right wing Tea Party Republicans that have cut spending and taxes. And as my HBB liberal betters have told me consistently, only tax and spend liberal Democrat policies create jobs.

It’s easy to cherry pick. Forinstance, Nevada is redder than blue, yet it has the highest unemployment rate in the nation.

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Comment by United States of Moral Hazard
2013-06-26 08:39:48

Slithers and Nanners = cherry pickin’ daddies.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-06-26 12:16:59

cherry pickin’ voodoo daddies :lol:

Comment by Biggvs Richardvs
2013-06-26 12:44:51

Please don’t feed the troll(s).

Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 12:52:16

cherry pickin’ daddies.

Obama will approve their mortgage loans.

Comment by In Colorado
2013-06-26 13:33:05

Heck, Nevada doesn’t have a state income tax. It should be an employment Nirvana!

Might Michigan and Ohio be doing better because of “Government Motors”?

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 03:37:55

Pennsylvania’s Unemployment Rate Drops below U.S. to 7.5 percent in May
June 24, 2013 at 6:00 AM by Gant Team

HARRISBURG – The state’s unemployment rate dropped one-tenth of a percentage point to 7.5 percent in May according to employment statistics released by the Pennsylvania Department of Labor & Industry. This was the state’s lowest unemployment rate since March 2009.

“Pennsylvania’s unemployment rate hasn’t been this low since 2009 and has declined for four consecutive months,” Julia Hearthway, Secretary of the Department of Labor & Industry said. “Pennsylvania’s rate is now below the U.S. rate, which increased one-tenth of a percentage point in May to 7.6 percent.”

Comment by Mr. Smithers
2013-06-26 05:53:50

“Is the U.S. unemployment rate on track to dip below 6.5% in 2014?”

Crazy talk. I’ve been assured by HMM many times that 94% of the population lives in poverty and that is set to hit 98% by 2015.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 06:09:48

“The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation…”


Comment by goon squad
2013-06-26 06:18:07

what do you hope to achieve with your unfounded optimism?

never mind the reality of:

chronic underemployment
stagnant wages
millions of underwater mortgages
trillion dollars of student loans


Comment by michael
2013-06-26 06:42:11

well hell…with this grat news the fed should raise rates.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 07:42:24

Would ‘raising rates’ include ‘talking about eventually winding down QE3, but only after sufficient labor market improvement’ under your definition?

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Comment by michael
2013-06-26 10:04:19

i spoke too soon…GDP revised down! off to the races!

Comment by Biggvs Richardvs
2013-06-26 13:05:59

Guys, seriously, please stop feeding the troll. It’s obviously some kid with zero real world experience who listens to charlatans like Glenn Beck and Pat robertson.

If he’s lucky, someday he will find himself temporarily homeless and needing some help. Then he can find out what ‘Murrika is really all about when even after doing the right thing and being a good hard worker, you’re find yourself still too poor to afford bootstraps to pull yourself up by.

He honestly doesn’t realize that most of the people he despises for receiving a pittance of assistance from the state would give almost anything for the opportunity to work for a better life, but simply don’t have the option.

He has no idea what it’s like, after faithfully following the advice and direction of pastor, employer, and counselor and working your fingers literally to the bone, you can still end up living in a tent or car(if you’re lucky), wondering when and where is going to be then next time you get to eat some food.

In their world, anyone who needs a little help out of desperation is in reality a lazy bum who just wants free lobster and cell phones for their crack dealer.

He doesn’t understand that all it takes is a medical episode, even WITH insurance, and you can easily find yourself broke and homeless. I would never wish this on anyone long term, but it would be nice if trolls like this could experience it for a few months of their lives.

Then they might understand that the examples of fraud and abuse are cherrypicked by those that have a rather dark agenda. Anyone who would deny a little help to those in desperate need based on the abuses of a few miscreants are truly pathetic individuals. So I say to you again:


Comment by Mr. Smithers
2013-06-26 05:55:01

HMM? Errr…..HBB.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 07:39:56

Who is HBB (or HMM or whatever)? Is this a person’s initials?

Comment by goon squad
2013-06-26 08:53:30

HMM = His Muslim Majesty, an acronym for Obama.

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 21:23:43

Funniest post of the day?

Comment by Resistor
2013-06-26 03:35:27

So… if my child is walking home from an errand, and an unknown (not LE) adult demands to know what what they’re doing, and then follows them… that’s o.k.?

That sounds like stalking.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 03:45:09

To my knowledge, it never happened to any of my kids; however, there was a point in time when John Albert Gardner III was hanging out near one of their schools (shudder!).

Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2013-06-26 04:30:06

Go to a busy street in any city. Walk down a sidewalk for 2 blocks. Now look behind you. There are people following you. What will you do to all of them? Legally, following someone is not a crime, but physical assault is.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-06-26 12:24:25

There is a difference between stalking and following and is recognized by the courts.

If just one person in that crowd is following you with unwanted intent, THAT’S stalking.

Comment by Steve J
2013-06-26 14:35:30

Uh, that’s not stalking.

Paparazzi are still in business.

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Comment by ecofeco
2013-06-26 16:17:50

Many often have retraining orders against them and many have been arrested.

Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2013-06-26 17:20:39

That is markedly different from what I am aware of. Can you provide a statute in-force and a citation, please?

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Comment by 2banana
2013-06-26 07:05:44

So…if your 17 year “child” is dressed like a thug walking in a strange neighborhood at night looking like he is casing houses….that’s ok?

That sounds like gansta.


So… if my child is walking home from an errand, and an unknown (not LE) adult demands to know what what they’re doing, and then follows them… that’s o.k.?

That sounds like stalking.

Comment by goon squad
2013-06-26 07:42:33

If you don’t like “children” who look like the son Obama never had, you are a racist.

And when Zimmerman is acquitted, “social justice” will be achieved by looting Foot Locker.


Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 09:43:19

So…if your 17 year “child” is dressed like a thug

What is this “dressed like thug”? Have police arrested the voyeour Zuckerberg yet?

Comment by michael
2013-06-26 10:10:17

“What is this “dressed like thug”?”

they are thugs at night…and just punks during the day.

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Comment by michael
2013-06-26 10:16:35

i have not been following this case at all…i decided to research the time treyvon was shot.

he was shot between 7:17 and 7:30 PM. maybe it’s just me but there is a big difference between seeing someone walking down the street at 7:30 at night versus say…2:00 AM.

i’m not even sure if that would even register as “suspicious” on my radar.

Comment by aNYCdj
2013-06-26 12:27:16

Michael it was in february sun set
Rise: Set:
Actual Time: 6:57 AM EST 6:20 PM EST

From January 1, 2011 through February 26, 2012, police were called to The Retreat at Twin Lakes 402 times.[71] During the 18 months preceding the February 26 shooting, Zimmerman called the non-emergency police line seven times. On five of those calls, Zimmerman reported suspicious looking men in the area, but never offered the men’s race without first being asked by the dispatcher.[86][87][88] Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin’s death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting.[89] Twin Lakes residents said there were dozens of reports of attempted break-ins, which had created an atmosphere of fear in their neighborhood.[63]

Comment by AmazingRuss
2013-06-26 09:57:13

If Trayvon’s momma had made him carry a gun, this tragedy could have been avoided.

Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2013-06-26 10:47:04

Or how about if Trayvon had called 911 with the cell phone he had at the time? The poor child felt threatened and scared, right?

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Comment by ecofeco
2013-06-26 12:26:38

He called his girlfriend. He never had time to call 911.

Comment by Steve J
2013-06-26 14:37:51

If only he dated a cop.

Comment by AmazingRuss
2013-06-26 16:16:56

At that age, I was more scared of the cops than bad guys… which I imagine is worse if you’re heavily pigmented. Once ran to a friends house with a 12 guage when he called me to say there was somebody clomping around upstairs. Luckily whoever it was departed, or I most certainly would have blasted him. 3 teenagers walking behind me as I cleared the house, and not one of us thought to call the cops.

Come to think of it, I’m STILL scared of the cops.

Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2013-06-26 17:26:54

So, your position is that this terrified child had time to call his girlfriend at a 10-digit number and carry on a conversation, but no time to dial a 3-digit number and tell them that a bad man was following him? Really? What is your caretaker’s name? Do they know that you are on the internet right now?

Comment by Resistor
Comment by aNYCdj
2013-06-26 06:16:46

Arizona is in the grips of a dangerous heat wave that could send temperatures soaring to 118 degrees by the weekend in Phoenix,


Just checked the all time low for Flagstaff today is 26 degrees yup 26…..in june?

Comment by michael
2013-06-26 06:44:02

i hear it’s raining in Seattle.

Comment by Biggvs Richardvs
2013-06-26 13:17:31

Why yes, yes it is.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2013-06-26 11:13:40

It’s supposed to be 107 here today.

Comment by rms
2013-06-26 06:38:33

We’ve been having a strange weather year up north in eastern Washington state. Monday was chilly and raining, wore a wool vest that day. This Saturday is expected to hit 95-degrees. This has been the wettest June that I can recall, weeks of scattered rain and thunder, not ideal for bicycle commuting. On the plus side, no sunny 3/2 spec homes for $500k plus around here.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 08:10:46

Anyone who has ever seen or watched footage of an Oklahoma twister will agree that is a wimpy wisp of a funnel cloud.

Comment by Charlie Tango
2013-06-26 08:23:25

Juneuary is coming to and end here in Mammoth. We had one summer like day back in May. Bring the heat!

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 03:39:04

How are your precious metals investments holding up these days?

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 03:40:40

June 26, 2013, 5:14 a.m. EDT
Gold, silver hit by Fed fears, dollar gains
By Barbara Kollmeyer and Carla Mozee, MarketWatch

MADRID (MarketWatch) — Gold and silver futures slumped Wednesday, remaining under pressure as upbeat U.S. economic data supported the view that the Federal Reserve will slow the pace of monetary stimulus this year. Gains for the dollar also pressured the metal.

Extending earlier losses, gold for August delivery (GCQ3 -3.78%) fell $42.10, or 3.3%, to $1,233 an ounce, while July silver (SIN3 -5.15%) dropped $1.09, or 5.5%, to $18.45 an ounce.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 05:36:24

Why buy gold today when you can buy it for 70% less tomorrow?

Comment by ahansen
2013-06-26 10:03:02

For $55/oz.

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Comment by Biggvs Richardvs
2013-06-26 13:49:00

I seriously doubt that, but your point is well taken. Gold/silver were definitely feeling up at around $1800/40 an ounce.

My only thought about that is that the Fed has shamelessly balooned the money supply, so the laws of supply and demand have to kick in at some point.

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Comment by AmazingRuss
2013-06-26 16:18:52

I think we may be finally entering the “Ka” of Eric Jantzen’s “Ka-POOM” theory.

Comment by Bluestar
2013-06-26 05:54:58

CNBC sez percentage loss was worst month for PMs in 100 years.
What happened 100 years ago that would have caused that?

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 06:16:49

Possibly it only means nobody has a view further back than that.

Housing starts are lower than they have ever been since 1960. No data before that.

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 07:47:13

“Possibly it only means nobody has a view further back than that.”

That was my thought, too. I tried hunting for something about gold prices dropping in 1903 and came up empty handed.

In the process, I accidentally discovered a treasure trove of stories about the Gold Panic of 2013.

Comment by oxide
2013-06-26 10:14:09

I guess you could hunt for gold prices in San Francisco circa 1850 and adjust for — wait, do you even adjust for inflation for gold prices, or is the price of gold itself the definition of inflation?

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 08:02:47

Hopefully for gold investors, the 23% decline we are on track for this quarter will not continue for the rest of 2013. Note that three consecutive quarters of 23% declines would knock the price down by ((1-0.23)^3-1)*100% = -54.3%.

June 26, 2013, 10:37 a.m. EDT
Gold, silver tumble on Fed fears, dollar gains
By William L. Watts and Barbara Kollmeyer, MarketWatch

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Gold futures dropped sharply on Wednesday, hitting multi-year lows on growing expectations the U.S. Federal Reserve will slow the pace of economic stimulus later this year.

Gold for August delivery GCQ3 -3.11% fell $39 an ounce, or more than 3%, to $1,236.10 on the New York Mercantile Exchange, after dropping as low as $1,223.20 — the lowest level for a most-active contract since at least August 2010, according to FactSet.

Gold futures are on track for a decline of 23% this quarter.

Comment by United States of Moral Hazard
2013-06-26 08:52:26

The gold fantasy is over. The hyperinflation nonsense never materialized. The Fed has indicated tightening. The end of days never came. The gold bugs just got exposed.

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Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 09:52:35

The notion of any inflation is laughable.

Comment by Biggvs Richardvs
2013-06-26 14:21:33


Yes absolutely ridiculous. Why, you can still buy gasoline at this store for 20 cents a gallon(really): http://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Gas_20_cents.jpg

No such thing as inflation, nosiree Bob.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 16:25:04

That’s not inflation my friend.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 19:47:23

Most people don’t correlate things very well. We’ve been in deflation for almost a decade, despite the “investment” manias. Panic 2 is coming up. Buckle your seat belts.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 07:50:34

Deccan Chronicle
Wednesday, June 26, 2013
Gold coin sale ban creates panic
DC | 11 hours 19 min ago

Chennai: Consumers are in a quandary over the sudden declaration by Indian gold jewellers body to stop gold coin sales at member outlets from July 1. Many of them are left wondering about the status of the gold savings scheme that they had invested in to accumulate gold coins for future use.

The All India Gems and Jewellery Trade Federation, which represents 90 per cent of jewellers, had come out with an open call on Monday to its members seeking to stop selling gold bars and coins.

This has triggered a lot of speculation among consumers who had sunk in their money in the host of gold savings scheme that was unveiled during the recent crash of gold price in April.

“I had recently invested in a gold harvest scheme with a reputed jeweller. So what happens now if they are not willing to give gold coin,” asks a worried homemaker Maya Ramanathan of Chennai who had blocked 120 grams of gold for her daughter’s wedding.

Assuaging fears, president of the Madras Jewellers and Diamond Merchants’ Association Jayantilal Challani said, “Though we have asked our members to stop sales of coins by July 1, all the schemes will continue and consumers will get the promised quantity of gold, but may be in the form of jewellery of their choice.”

However, this has caused a lot of concern among the public as they stand to lose out on making charges if it is in the form of jewellery while gold coin has hardly any wastage. But, a few other jewellers said that they would go by customer choice and honour their requests.

“If customers want it as gold coins, we will give them. We will not totally ban coin sales but may be will not push their sales,” said M.P. Ahammed, chairman, Malabar Gold Group.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 07:53:25

Gold Price Crash, Panic Deepens on World Financial Markets
Stock-Markets / Financial Crash Jun 23, 2013 - 04:37 PM GMT
By: Global_Research

Andre Damon writes: Global stocks plunged Thursday in the biggest one-day sell-off so far this year, after Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said the US central bank might consider paring back its cash infusions into the financial markets within the next six months.

The panic in stock and bond markets sparked by the remarks of Bernanke, who on Wednesday suggested the Fed might start winding down its $85 billion per month in asset purchases, was compounded by the release of data on Thursday showing that Chinese manufacturing activity hit its lowest level in nine months.

These developments point to two fundamental facts about the current economic situation: the continuing slump in the real economy and the extreme dependence of global financial markets on virtually free credit from the Federal Reserve and other central banks.

In the United States, the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 353 points, or 2.34 percent, in its biggest drop since November 2011. This followed a 206 point drop on Wednesday. The Standard & Poor’s 500 index fell by 2.5 percent, and the Nasdaq Composite Index fell by 2.3 percent. All ten sectors of the S&P 500 fell by more than two percent.

The drop in US financial markets followed a panicky sell-off in Europe and Asia earlier in the day. The United Kingdom’s FTSE 100 index lost 2.98 percent and the German Dax lost 3.28 percent. In Asia, Hong Kong’s Hang Seng index dropped by 2.88 percent and Japan’s Nikkei fell by 1.1 percent.

Asian markets declined further at their opening Friday morning, with the Nikkei down by 2 percent, the Hang Seng down by 1.75 percent, and the Australian All Ordinaries index down by 0.70 percent in early trading.

All major commodities were hit by Thursday’s sell-off, with gold futures dropping below $1,300 per ounce, the lowest level in two-and-a-half years. Silver dropped by 9.7 percent during the day before recovering slightly, hitting its lowest level since 2010. Prior to Thursday’s sell-off, gold prices were already down by 18 percent, in what may become the first yearly decline in the value of gold since 2000.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 07:56:35

Does “physical” still beat “paper”? Apparently Indian households are losing the faith.

Gold, silver sink on panic selling, global sell-off
PTI Jun 20, 2013, 07.00PM IST
(Gold suffered sharp losses…)

MUMBAI: Gold suffered sharp losses at the domestic bullion market today due to frantic selling from stockists and investors in the wake of global commodity sell-off.

Sliver also crumbled under massive speculative unwinding and closed below the key Rs 44,000 per kg mark.

Standard gold of 99.5 per cent purity slumped by Rs 765 to finish at Rs 27,160 per 10 gm from Wednesday’s closing level of Rs 27,925.

Comment by robot
2013-06-26 12:51:36

Found the following info online. Not sure how accurate it is.

“There was over 40,000 contracts traded last night at 11:30EST. 100 oz per contract.”

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 17:24:42

*40,000 contracts traded last night at 11:30EST. 100 oz per contract.”

40,000 X 100 = 4,000,000 ounces traded.

How many ounces fit into two Olympic-sized pools*, anyway?

* Supposedly all the gold in the world would fit into the volume of two Olympic-sized pools.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 15:47:40

At what point of ongoing downtrend after a bubble has popped does it qualify as a crash?

Updated June 26, 2013, 5:51 p.m. ET
Gold Settles at Nearly 3-Year Low

Gold prices slumped to their lowest level in nearly three years Wednesday after a selloff at the start of Asian trading reverberated through trading floors in London and New York.

The most actively traded contract, for August delivery, fell $45.30, or 3.6%, to $1,229.80 a troy ounce on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange. This was gold’s lowest settlement price since Aug. 23, 2010. Gold for June delivery also fell 3.6%, down $45.20 to settle at $1,229.60 an ounce.

Reasons for the Federal Reserve to end its economic-stimulus efforts are piling up, and that has gold investors on shaky ground. The Fed’s loose monetary policy helped drive prices as high as $1,900 an ounce, as gold bulls wagered that the stimulus measures would stoke inflation, enhancing gold’s allure as a hedge against rising prices. Instead, inflation has remained tepid.

“Gold is not going to be a major attraction when there’s no inflation and interest rates are rising,” said Bill Baruch, a market strategist with iiTrader, a Chicago-based brokerage.

On Tuesday, data showed a pickup in durable-goods orders and housing construction, while consumer confidence climbed back to pre-financial crisis levels. Investors and traders have been scrutinizing every economic report to get a sense of when the Fed might scale back an $85 billion-a-month bond-buying program. The Fed has said it would end the program when the economy shows continued improvement.

Bob Haberkorn, a senior commodities broker with RJO Futures, a futures brokerage based in Chicago, said the data indicated the U.S. central bank is more likely to wind down the program.

Gold’s initial reaction to Tuesday’s upbeat data was muted as the expiration of Comex gold options that day kept some of the selling at bay, said Dave Meger, director of metals trading with Vision Financial Markets LLC, a Chicago-based futures brokerage. Many investors held protective put options that were profitable, and closing out those positions helped keep the market higher, he said.

As Asian trading opened, gold fell sharply. At 9:05 p.m. in New York, gold futures dropped $10.20 an ounce in electronic trading on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange. Trading volume picked up in that minute, with nearly 3,000 contracts changing hands, a large amount even for daytime trading.

Gold’s declines triggered automatic selling orders, brokers said, which are placed by investors looking to limit their losses if prices move below a certain level. As a result, selling accelerated, sending futures even lower.

“You get this domino effect where, because there’s selling from the stops, it pushes gold lower, which triggers more stops,” said Graham Leighton, a precious metals broker in New York with futures broker Marex Spectron.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 15:50:39

Updated June 25, 2013, 3:28 p.m. ET
Bottom Is Falling Out of Copper Prices

Copper’s world is coming apart. The price has fallen 16% so far this year and is 34% below February 2011’s all-time closing high.

This isn’t just a case of slowing economic growth. The global forces propelling the metal’s stunning rise over the past decade are shifting. Copper’s supercycle is entering its downhill run.

Copper’s surge reflected flat supply running into surging demand, mainly from China. When that happens, prices spike to a level at which demand is destroyed, to balance the market. This is in contrast to a more stable market where prices are usually closer to the marginal cost of supply.

Copper spent much of the period from 2005 to 2012 at levels at least double the marginal cost of production, according to Deutsche Bank, (DBK.XE +2.37%) reflecting persistent supply deficits. The number of days of consumption covered by copper stocks fell from more than 60 in 2003 to less than 20 by 2008.

The market has now loosened. Already, the stock-to-consumption ratio is back up to almost 50. On the demand side, China’s attempted shift away from economic growth predicated on breakneck construction—with good reason, as the country’s recent credit crunch demonstrates—will cause copper-consumption growth to level off.

And more copper is becoming available. Between 2005 and 2012, disruptions such as strikes took the equivalent of between 5% and 8% of global mine supply off the market, according to Macquarie. So far this year, though, disruptions equate to about 2%. Moreover, an earlier surge in investment brought on by higher copper prices is starting to bear fruit.

Deutsche Bank and Macquarie expect copper supply between 2013 and 2015 to exceed demand by an average of roughly 500,000 metric tons a year—higher than the surplus in 2009, when the average price fell 26%.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 19:51:12

Copper has played a big role in China’s credit ponzi. I wonder how many years supply will hit the market all at once.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 17:55:09

Can Anything Stop Gold’s Slide?
By Nick Summers
June 26, 2013

Traditionally, gold prices rise when equities fall, and vice versa, making it a good place to park assets when the stock market is in turmoil. These days, gold just seems to fall regardless of what stocks are doing, as they fluctuate wildly in the wake of Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke’s attempts to talk about the end of the Fed’s efforts to stimulate the economy.

The Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index dropped as much as 5 percent in the days after Bernanke’s June 19 press conference, and gold might have benefited from investors seeking to ride out the storm—that’s what has happened during selloffs in the past. Instead, gold fell too. This may have to do partly with the general consensus that stock prices aren’t overinflated, as they were during the dot-com bubble of the late 1990s, when shares’ price-earnings ratio went as high as 30. Today, the multiple is about half that.

Overall, it’s been a bad time to be a gold bug. Gold exchange-traded funds have now lost more than a quarter of their value since the start of the year, as the S&P 500 is up 12.4 percent. Gold is now at a 34-month low. Goldman Sachs (GS), Morgan Stanley (MS), and UBS (UBS) have lowered their forecasts. The U.S. economy is showing signs of strength, and high inflation is nowhere in sight. The metal did pause in its decline when the U.S. announced that a key economic figure for the first quarter was weaker than expected, which puts pressure on the Fed to keep its easy money program going.

“The [gold] selloff is a continuation of the response to concerns over the Fed tapering stimulus,” Bart Melek, the head of commodity strategy at TD Securities (TD), told Bloomberg News. “We’ll need to see evidence of more physical buying and demand from central banks before it really turns around. No one wants to catch a falling knife.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 19:54:22

Aladinsane is a happy man. He lives in a monastery in Mexico and gave away all his gold long ago.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 21:25:55

I thought he traded his gold for investment housing long ago…but apparently he is no longer with us to set the record straight.

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 21:29:54

Would now be a good time to buy the dip in gold and get set for the dead cat bounce ride up?

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 21:33:24

Gold Price Crash June 2013: Panic vs. History
Wednesday, 6/26/2013 19:05
This year’s crash in gold prices is not unprecedented. Nor is the likely price action over the next one and 3 months…

OVER the last three months, gold prices have sunk 25.2% for US Dollar investors. That’s some drop, writes Adrian Ash at BullionVault – the 40th worst three-month drop since prices were floated during the death throes of the Gold Standard in 1968.

Heavy selling created this plunge. So it’s natural for longer-term holders to be weighing their options as well today. Panic selling is a clear risk. Sitting like a duck in hunting season is also a risk, of course.

But whether gold’s underlying fate is to keep falling or not, today doesn’t look such a smart day to rush for the exits. Not according to history at least. A short-term surge looks highly likely.

Over the last 45 years, when gold has dropped this much or worse in three months, it has typically rallied hard over the following four weeks. Better than four-fifths of the time in fact, with an average one-month rise of 11.1%. On those occasions when gold fell and extended its loss, however, the average drop for Dollar investors who held on was 5.3%.

You makes your choice, in short (sic). But it’s good to know how the historical odds are stacked, if not the future. Over the last 45 years, this dramatic a sell-off has been followed on average by a one-month rise of 8.2% overall.

Further out, however, the underlying dynamics will matter. Or so history says. And especially for non-Dollar investors.

Comment by frankie
2013-06-26 04:10:42

Italy risks potential losses of billions of euros on derivatives contracts it restructured at the height of the eurozone crisis, according to a confidential report by the Rome Treasury that sheds more light on the financial tactics that enabled the debt-laden country to enter the euro in 1999.

A 29-page report by the Treasury, obtained by the Financial Times, details Italy’s debt transactions and exposure in the first half of 2012, including the restructuring of eight derivatives contracts with foreign banks with a total notional value of €31.7bn.


Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 05:35:53

“Houses depreciate rapidly.”

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 05:44:46

Housing Prices Crater 11% In Exclusive Los Angeles Neighborhoods


Comment by azdude
2013-06-26 06:07:19

good morning zillow pimp

data is old and useless as usual.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 06:09:30

“Crater 11%”

….. and falling.

Comment by azdude
2013-06-26 06:17:23

prices are rising nicely in my area. time to pull some equity and buy a new car.

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Comment by goon squad
2013-06-26 06:20:59

brilliant strategy. spend thirty years paying interest for a purchase that depreciates 40 percent the minute you drive it off the dealer lot.

Comment by Biggvs Richardvs
2013-06-26 14:27:50
Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 06:18:18

Hey dude, about your superior market understanding and timing. How’s that working for you?

Comment by azdude
2013-06-26 06:26:40

workn just great pal.how is renting for the rest of your life workn for you?

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Comment by goon squad
2013-06-26 06:45:07

for some of us, renting for the rest of our life means not having to work for the rest of our life.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 06:58:53

It’s a mixed bag. I pay my $600 in January and forget about the rent until next year. I think that’s less than I paid in PMI way back when. In the “you have to play to win” world I am first class loser. Depreciation is pressing, I need to roll out the power washer and keep up with that this weekend. As for the new car, I am lost there again. I have no credit history of record and not able to pull “equity” (a loan) out of my a$$.

I have a new toy this year, a Food Saver vacuum sealer. I have an order in with the best butcher shop in the universe for a box of thick prime Delmonicos (Ribeye to those in other places). Going to fill the freezer with real equity. It’s hard to find a good steak when cruising. Single Malt to wash it down, that one can get anywhere.

Comment by Rental Watch
2013-06-26 13:45:57

Especially useless when he is quoting the median prices, not their index (which adjusts based on the actual homes sold). That one for the same market is up 21%.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 16:23:14

And there’s our Housing Pimp “Rental Watch”…. spinning and flailing away to get you to ignore the truth about housing.

You’re a liar.

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Comment by Rental Watch
2013-06-26 18:25:39


How about linking the data source, rather than the select piece of data that you want people to see. With the above link, people can see the relevant data or that market (certainly more than the median home price).

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 20:52:49

How about addressing falling prices in the chart I provided instead of running from it like a coward?

Comment by Rental Watch
2013-06-26 23:16:15

When you actually compare the sale prices of like homes, and not just median, the data shows home prices rising, as described in the Zillow Home Value Index for that market.

The “median” can be distorted by the particular homes that happened to sell that month, especially in a very specific location that only had 27 homes sold for the month from where you are drawing the data.


Your data is misleading. The link I provided opens the door to the whole story, not the story you wish to portray by showing people a view through a peephole.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 05:54:14

Housing Prices Tumble 5.7% In Trendy Bay Area Enclaves


Comment by azdude
2013-06-26 06:28:02

you do understand the word median dont you?

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 06:31:25

And the decline is accelerating.

Look out below!

Comment by Rental Watch
2013-06-26 23:17:57

Sample size for the median calculation…34.

Comment by Rental Watch
2013-06-26 23:33:32


Median PER SQUARE FOOT tells a much different story, and indicates your data is skewed by the sample for that month.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 05:58:23
Comment by azdude
2013-06-26 06:12:29

thats a real big crater there. you do realize the banks are trickling out their homes and they are restricting inventory?

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 06:14:43

With 4 MILLION excess, empty and defaulted properties in CA, I don’t think anyone has to worry about “inventory”.

Comment by azdude
2013-06-26 06:19:10

the banks dont have to sell do they? you get to pick up the tab to maintain the properties via bailouts. you keep voting the same people in.

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Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 06:21:46

The word “inventory” means something entirely different to a Realtor than to the rest of us.

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Comment by azdude
2013-06-26 06:23:24

hi child, time to grow up buddy and have a meaningful conversation.

Comment by goon squad
2013-06-26 06:49:30

We have traced his IP address to this location:


Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 07:27:57

“the banks dont have to sell do they?”

Here it is in a nutshell, and why what is going to happen will be so unexpected. Banks have been allowed to carry non performing loans on the books as good assets, but that does not all by itself make them profitable. What has made it possible for the banks to show a profit on paper while holding these nonperforming assets is constantly falling interest rates. If interest rates stop fallling, what happens to the bank’s strategy?

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Comment by Al
2013-06-26 09:14:51

“If interest rates stop fallling, what happens to the bank’s strategy?”

The banks have been trickling out inventory at a loss, but they can offset with profits from pillaging and gouging and the like. Low interst rates help of course. They can slowly liquidate their housing inventory while still writing themselves fat bonus checks.

Rising interest rates complicate matters. Housing prices drop, while at the same time it becomes more difficult for banks to make their pillaging profits. The banks have the increased incentive to sit on invetory instead of selling and recognizing the losses. Since banks have been doing whatever is best for their CEOs since this mess began, there’s no reason to believe they won’t do so now.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-06-26 12:28:33

“…the banks are trickling out their homes and they are restricting inventory?”

Tinkle down you can believe in!

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 06:21:57
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 06:29:49

Rental Rates Sink 15% In Trendy Los Angeles County Community


Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 06:41:30
Comment by sad panda
2013-06-26 06:55:22

Bad news bears. Look for markets to reach new high today.

1. Q1 gdp revised lower to 1.8
2. New mortgage applications collapse

Comment by oxide
2013-06-26 10:17:23

Are these “new mortgages” for relocations or refinances? It makes a difference.

Comment by WT Econonmist
2013-06-26 06:55:50

Why are stock prices going down?

Because they were too high to begin with. End of story.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 07:05:13

Along those same lines;

“Why has housing demand collapsed to 1997 levels?”

Because they were prices are too high to begin with. End of story.

Comment by jose canusi
2013-06-26 07:02:48

Anyone here follow the student loan bubble? I hear that when it bursts this will be the next financial event. Any thoughts?

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 07:12:31

How would that work, this bursting? Those who owe to the FedGov for student loans are locked in long term. What will they do, have a prison riot? The borrow to get rich crowd has been shrinking for a decade, is that a news event?

Comment by joe smith
2013-06-26 08:02:36

I think the way it would work is that the banking sector needs another bail out thanks to yet another idiotic backstopping of the financial industry by the federal government via changing BK law _explicitly_ to benefit the GSE (which became a private company, BTW) and big banks.

Comment by polly
2013-06-26 08:41:01

They don’t need a bailout on the federally guaranteed loans. The bailout is already in there. If the student stops paying [a certain amount of time passes and some attempts to collect take place], if it still isn’t paid, the government either takes over the payments (doubtful, I have never heard that the interest going forward is guaranteed) or pays off the balance. Then the government goes after the student over a very long period of time up to and including witholding portions of future Social Security checks.

For private loans, they don’t have a government guarantee, but they often have a co-signer to go after or can just keep going after the kid for as long as they want.

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Comment by joe smith
2013-06-26 09:10:13

I was mostly referring to institutions that own repackaged student loan debt.

Comment by oxide
2013-06-26 10:21:42

I thought Dodd-Frank required banks to write their own “living will.” So if/when their secondary market shenanigans went bust, the gov and FDIC would have a guide about exactly how to break up the bank. (???)

Comment by 2banana
2013-06-26 07:16:27

Interest rates double on federal student loans on July 1st.

MILWAUKEE (WITI) — Student loan interest rates could double if Congress does not act by July 1st. Stafford loans would increase from 3.4 % to 6.8 %. That would be an estimated $1,000 more in debt per year.

Republicans and Democrats have both proposed deals that were shot down. Democrats unsuccessfully sought a two-year extension of current rates. Republicans wanted to link interest rates to financial markets.

“School should be preparing you for life,” MATC student Kim Dood said. “It shouldn’t be withholding you from living.”

Dood is a liberal arts student. She currently has $11,000 in student loans. She estimates that will increase to $40,000 by the time she graduates.

“The message to Congress: don’t increase the rates, they’re high enough as they are already,” Dood said.

Last year, lawmakers passed a one year extension on student loan interest rates.


Comment by goon squad
2013-06-26 07:17:16

The financial media will only nibble around the edges of this story.

The reality for many 20-30 somethings with large student loan balances is the “New Normal” which for many means not buying cars, not buying houses, not getting married, not having kids, et cetera.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 07:25:27

WBBR reported just yesterday that the number of people in the 20 something demographic possessing credit cards is falling.

Comment by joe smith
2013-06-26 07:53:37

I’ve read this before and it’s always been explained along the lines of what goon says - younger people are more debt averse but part of the reason for that is the student loan debt.

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Comment by ecofeco
2013-06-26 12:31:38

…and the other part is jobs that pay crap.

Comment by AmazingRuss
2013-06-26 16:26:23

I get the cards with the free interest, run them up, then pay them off when the free period is over. Doesn’t net me much, but I like the “screw you” message I send with that pay off check and cancellation request.

Otherwise, I really have no use for one. Debit card works just fine.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2013-06-26 07:20:51

I know polly hates my idea of treating the college degree as an asset, but why should someone keep their college degree after a BK.

Comment by joe smith
2013-06-26 07:42:02

The degree itself is only a crude proxy for knowledge. You can take away someone’s degree but in most cases it is without consequence. Even for the professions where a degree is absolutely mandatory (teaching, nursing, law, medicine, etc.) the governing bodies would _never_ retroactively remove someone’s privileges because they gave up the right to declare their degree.

If you attended or graduated from X university with Y degree and Z experiences/connections, how can anyone take that away? They can’t. Hell, even the institutions themselves would not stop verifying the person’s educational record. Unless they are truly scummy, scammy, low-life institutions, in which case their reputations would only get worse.

Comment by aNYCdj
2013-06-26 09:05:09

Joe….I think the only people that would take advantage of this would be the ones with useless degrees like medieval art history who are working at starbucks….

No future prospects for a job, so for them turning in a degree for BK…would be a benefit for all of us….the money could e used to start a family buy a house and they can become a manager at SB.

The companies can choose whether to fire or hire you based on a valid college degree. Even retroactively..

What i am really opposed to is to have very little or no consequences to the forthcoming student debt relief ohbewanna wants so badly.

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Comment by joe smith
2013-06-26 09:16:31

No legitimate university will submit to a plan whereby they deny a student’s academic progression/record when a potential employer makes an inquirer.

And for people with “useless” degrees, the degree is not providing them a job value anyway. There are relatively few jobs where a college degree is a real requirement.

The real answer, which will never happen because of the forces aligned against it, would be to stop treating student debt differently than any other unsecured debt. The BK exemption is either the #1 or #2 reason that college/grad school costs went through the roof in the past decade. I would argue #1, because once it was nondischargeable there was no longer any reason for costs to stay in line with the fundamentals. Colleges could charge very high amounts with zero risk and there was a government middleman (SLME) in place to facilitate the whole thing. To top it off, SLME was so profitable it eventually went private and lobbied the Hell out of Congress. Albert Lord (CEO of SLME at this time) is just about the worst person in the country. Look him up.

Comment by ahansen
2013-06-26 10:08:38

It’s not like they can turn off your brain for non-payment dj. Oh, wait….

Comment by aNYCdj
2013-06-26 13:07:13

JOE lets get personal…..what if your co worker told you he scammed the system by working at legal aide so he can claim poverty and once he got his loans discharged he got a job right next to you at the same pay…..how would you feel then?

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 07:42:33

Only in a fantasy world are your experiences something that can be sold.

BTW, how does one discharge debt to the FedGov through BK?

Comment by joe smith
2013-06-26 07:49:29

Student loans were dischargable and treated the same as any other unsecured debt until Bush’s BK reform (sponsored by the TBTF banks and Sallie Mae) in 2005.

Just as with housing, the gov’t decided it wasn’t doing enough to help the related GSE and all the Big Banking donors. The other reforms in that bill were just as ridiculous, making the process of BK more costly and less navigable without providing any real benefits to the American people. Once the new BK took effect, Sallie Mae and the Big Banks went crazzzzy with student lending practices, which is going to haunt the US for decades to come.

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Comment by ecofeco
2013-06-26 12:34:26

The BK reform is rock solid proof they knew a collapse was coming.

Comment by In Colorado
2013-06-26 11:02:24

I know polly hates my idea of treating the college degree as an asset, but why should someone keep their college degree after a BK.

It’s pointless because a degree is not a real asset. Unlike say with a car, you can’t take a degree back and resell it.

Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 13:01:44

I think at some level it already happens. Employers check credit reports for many jobs these days.

Comment by goon squad
2013-06-26 09:18:43


“the demand for cognitive skills associated with higher education, after rising sharply until 2000, has since been in decline … This reversal in demand has caused high-skilled workers to accept lower-level jobs, pushing lower-skilled people even further down the occupational ladder or out of work altogether.”


Comment by Carl Morris
2013-06-26 09:49:58

Yet tech employers say we must have more H1Bs. Why? Because they’re not even interested in the top 10%. They just want the top 0.01% and they want them cheap. And even globally the supply of those is limited relative to the size of industry.

Comment by Overtaxed
2013-06-26 11:48:12

“Yet tech employers say we must have more H1Bs. Why? ”

Because there aren’t enough people with the skills required. I work in the tech industry, and I see it every day; we have reqs that go unfilled for months. Some where we don’t even get a resume. Fact of the matter, in some areas of tech, employment is probably close to 100% (100% of the people with the skills in the workforce are already employed somewhere using those skills). I don’t know many CCIEs or VCPs that are out there looking for work. We (and our competitors) have to poach them from other employers and, then, of course, the prices for these folks continues to rise.

“The degree itself is only a crude proxy for knowledge. ”

Actually, it’s probably better described as a crude proxy for IQ and determination. The knowledge gained in college, for many degrees, is never used again (think art history, literature, English, etc). However, if you got through a decent school, there’s a very good chance that you’re determined (willing to stick it out) and have an IQ at least 1SD over the norm (110 or so). If you got through a top tier school, you likely have an IQ 3 SDs over the norm (130 or so). That’s why employers focus on that; intelligence and willingness to see a very long project though (4 years of school) is highly valued in the workplace.

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Comment by Carl Morris
2013-06-26 12:36:18

“Yet tech employers say we must have more H1Bs. Why? ”

Because there aren’t enough people with the skills required.

It was a rhetorical question and I explained why. Thanks for saying the same thing in corporate-speak, though.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-06-26 12:39:46

Tech covers a lot of areas. I know quite few folks who have great skills but ahrd time finding work or that pays a decent living.

However it’s been proven that H1B is a scam and the video has been posted here.


Comment by Steve J
2013-06-26 14:42:17

Post a link to one of your job openings.

Comment by nickpapageorgio
2013-06-26 13:01:18

I think you will see the willingness accumulate debt subside now that interest rates are rising. Schools will have to lower tuition over time and hopefully we will see some out of work progressive indoctrinators, although I am sure some Orwellian government agency or court will pick them up.

Comment by Rental Watch
2013-06-26 13:55:01

I think it will be a big yawn.

With homes, once prices started to collapse, it meant that everyone who recently bought a home was screwed. No matter if they had a job, etc. Everyone walked, because the collateral that supported all those loans all feel below the mortgaged amount.

The value of all homes fell.

However, with education debt, while many folks will be in trouble because they borrowed $100k to learn to weave baskets, there are plenty that will get and keep a job that will allow them to pay back their mortgage.

When there is an economic downturn, not all educations lose value to the same extent (not like nearly all housing falling dramatically). Many people will keep making the payments.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 23:21:32

“Any thoughts?”

Student loan cramdowns are coming. DEBT JUBILEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 07:09:32

“You’d have to have rocks in your head to buy a house at these massively inflated prices. It’s a complete rip-off.”

Yes it is considering the cost of new housing is $60/sq foot (materials, labor and profit).

Comment by joe smith
2013-06-26 07:44:04

I thought it was $50/sq ft.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 07:53:11

Yet another convert!

Comment by joe smith
2013-06-26 07:56:52

Too late, I’m going to have incalcuable losses because my house will cost $65/sq ft, maybe $63-64 after taking into account the mortgage interest tax deduction.

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Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 08:37:05


We’re profitable at 55-$60/sq. $50/sq is our cost.

Comment by perkonkrusts
2013-06-26 10:57:37

For bridges.

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Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 11:53:16

Says the guy who loses money on 7 different houses because he doesn’t know how to evaluate them nor does he know the value of a dollar.

Let us know when you’re ready to discuss your latest project.

Comment by perkonkrusts
2013-06-26 13:08:20

I also forgot to say hello from across the country.

I’ve never claimed housing was a good investment, I’ve just done this:
1) Questioned your 65% drop in home price predictions (from here, not from Bubble 1.0), and
2) Asked you to be specific about when they will happen, which you still haven’t done. In fact, you won’t even give a 5-year range.

Decades will pass while your predictions still don’t come true.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 13:47:40

“Decades will pass…”

I won’t criticize your timing too harshly since you have probably bet heavily on that scenario. It seems very unlikely to take decades for the collapse of the biggest credit expansion in history. The contraction has been in progress for a decade, so it not happening for another 30 years seems to me unpossible.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 16:21:22

“I also forgot to say hello from across the country.”


Don’t change the subject Krusty…… show us your latest project.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 18:00:05

“I also forgot to say hello from across the country.”


Quit ducking and weaving and tell us about your current construction project.

Comment by joe smith
2013-06-26 07:36:40

DOMA just got pwned by the Supreme Court.

Uh oh 2Banana, marriages between people and pets can’t be far off…

Comment by 2banana
2013-06-26 07:44:17

Legalizing polygamy is next.

The exact same arguments for gay marriage will be used.

I am going with the flow.

I am going to marry my brother so he gets my full benefits and marry my kids so there will be no inheritance tax.

You actually miss the bigger picture.

Laws that have been passed “by the people” are just “ignored” by this administration. And then destroyed. Without one vote of the “people.”

The left loves it (now) as it it falls in their political direction.

They never think these schemes and policies they invented will be ever used against them.

Comment by joe smith
2013-06-26 07:50:39

I’m sure you get this alot [sic] in real life, but one more time can’t hurt: You’re an idiot.

Comment by nickpapageorgio
2013-06-26 13:10:44

His point is valid, so that makes you the… I bet we will see people crying out for Human-Pet Marriages etc in the next 10 years. The sky is the limit and I can’t wait to see the debauchery. LMAO.

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Comment by jose canusi
2013-06-26 07:50:56

I had a nightmare one time that the government forced me to marry my sister in law.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 07:54:52

I had a recurring nightmare for years that I was still married.

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Comment by ecofeco
2013-06-26 12:43:56

BA DUMP BA! :lol:

Comment by Steve J
2013-06-26 14:43:44

Is she hot?

Comment by joe smith
2013-06-26 07:58:08

Today’s decision is just another brick in the wall Obama is building to bring sharia law to the U.S.

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Comment by goon squad
2013-06-26 08:02:58

I just read on breitbart that Obama want to put AIDS in our drinking water.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 08:38:13


Comment by ecofeco
2013-06-26 12:49:00

…and take away our guns. Any day now! Any day now!

Comment by nickpapageorgio
2013-06-26 13:15:08

“sharia law”

Douchery aside…He would if he could and that would not work out too well for women, gays and non-savage humans.

Comment by Steve J
2013-06-26 14:47:42


Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 16:27:34

Brietbart is a joke but make no mistake…. BO is a bought a paid for whore of whores the likes of which we’ve never seen in US history.

Comment by AmazingRuss
2013-06-26 16:30:58

Sharia Gay Marriages for all!

Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 12:46:45

I must take it she’s not hot.

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Comment by In Colorado
2013-06-26 07:59:51

They never think these schemes and policies they invented will be ever used against them.

Both R’s and D’s are guilty of this.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 08:18:38

Though Mormons are sad today, they may eventually get something out of it.

Comment by Carl Morris
2013-06-26 09:05:57

Hah :-).

I have noticed that after the fallout from a couple of years ago the Mormons are pretty quiet on DOMA these days.

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 12:55:43
Comment by In Colorado
2013-06-26 10:07:26

I suspect that in the not too distant future (say in 30 years or so) that the President of the LDS church will receive a divine revelation that same sex marriage is OK.

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Comment by Carl Morris
2013-06-26 12:40:01

Stranger things have happened. However, I suspect that this won’t happen because of how traditional marriage is so intertwined throughout the doctrine. I don’t see how it could work…but if it weren’t for that I’d suspect the same thing.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-06-26 13:49:05

It’s an unproductive prospect.

Comment by AmazingRuss
2013-06-26 16:32:25

We could engineer this by getting some space alien cosplayers to knock on his door and hand him some golden tablets.

Comment by polly
2013-06-26 08:52:35

You can’t legalize polygamy using the same arguments.

Civil (not religious) marriage is a process where two adults pick each other to be their closest relative under the law. You can default into having more than one closest relative (for example, by not being married but still having two living parents), but there is no reason at all for the government to allow you to declare yourself to have more than one closest relative. The administrative hassles are too great. Also, there are all sorts of rights that go with civil marriage that are not implicated by having a closest relative that is a parent or a child.

I haven’t read the case yet, but it will be interesting to see how far it went and what the justification for the dissent(s) is.

Comment by MightyMike
2013-06-26 09:46:48

If you think about it more abstractly, there are a lot of similarities. The opponents of same sex marriage argue that there is something special about an opposite sex couple, based on biology and tradition.

If there was a political movement to allow polygamy, you could imagine what some of their arguments might be. Why don’t we allow polygamy in this country? If there’s nothing special about opposite sex relationships, what’s so special about the number one? Why can’t a person have more than spouse? Who would it harm? Why would you care whether your neighbor has zero, one or more spouses?

The answer would have to be the same as the argument against gay marriage. Some people are uncomfortable with the idea. Some people just don’t like it. And polygamy is forbidden by all of the major churches in the country.

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Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 09:57:04


Comment by polly
2013-06-26 10:43:54

No, the argument is that the government rights and responsibilities that are called “civil marriage” are between two people.

Lets use widows being able to collect their late husband’s social security as an example. How many people would be able to collect the same amount? Would they each get it, or would they have to split it? Can they decide how to split it, or is there a mandated split? Does splitting it make sense when the idea behind the benefit is keep seniors from being entirely destitute and splitting could leave 3 destitute widows instead of one who can sort of manage to eat without resorting to cat food?

What about decisions about health care for a person who has two living spouses? Which one gets to pick if there isn’t a health care proxy in place?

These issues are just the easiest ones to describe. The difficulty in setting up a system that works for multiple spouses is huge. There is no difficulty in setting up a system that works for same sex marrige except maybe getting some forms that have wording other than husband and wife on them. The treatment is exactly the same any any other marriage with two people in it.

Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 12:43:25

Yes they split the benefits equally.

It’s about someone’s civil right. The system must be set up no matter how difficult it is to do so.

Comment by polly
2013-06-26 13:24:40

“Yes they split the benefits equally:

There by completely destroying the reason for giving a spouse the right in the first place. You get two or three or four spouses arguing about whether to pull the plug or you get a program that is in place to reduce extreme poverty putting lots of people into extreme poverty. Destroying the justification behind practically all the marriage “rights” is a compelling reason for not doing something.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 15:57:03

‘No, the argument is that the government rights and responsibilities that are called “civil marriage” are between two people.’

Why can’t the rights under polygamous marriage be described sequentially as ‘between two people’:

Husband and Spouse1
Husband and Spouse2
Husband and Spouse3

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 15:58:23

P.S. It might be quite an interesting historical legal research project to review polygamous marriage rights as they were defined for the Utah Territory.

Comment by MightyMike
2013-06-26 17:35:57

We’re talking about slightly different things here, Polly. I was thinking in terms of attitudes about polygamy, not the details of its implementation. George has a good point above. If the issue was seen as a civil rights issue, the administrative details would be considered trivial matters that would be worked out somehow.

Social Security doesn’t keep all seniors out of poverty. The median benefit is something $1,200/month. So a lot of people rely on their kids to help them out. Imagine that someone used that fact to make an argument against same sex marriage. The same sex marriage option makes it less likely for certain people to have an opposite sex marriage. That means that they’ll be less likely to have kids, so they won’t have kids to rely in their old age. If a person made that argument today, half the country would consider him to a nasty bigot.

Comment by oxide
2013-06-26 10:55:54

Why, banana?

“Marriage between one man and one woman” hasn’t resulted in mass brother-sister marriages, or father-daughter marriages, as far as I know. Why would marriage between “one person and one person” be any different?

Comment by 2banana
2013-06-26 12:54:00

How do you tell bisexuals they have to choose same-sex or opposite-sex but not both?


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Comment by polly
2013-06-26 13:26:18

Forget it, oxide.

He doesn’t even get that “telling bisexuals they have to pick one” is exactly the same as telling heterosexuals they have to pick one. It isn’t even worth the argument.

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Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 08:20:15

This has to be an encouraging news for some mormon bishops and churches.

Comment by ahansen
2013-06-26 10:18:26

I see no moral inconsistency in allowing polygamous adults to form a binding legal contract of mutual support and fealty. It might be more complicated than with two people, but if say, three husbands want to split the bread-winner wife’s SS benefits three ways upon retirement and they draw up a valid contract addressing the tax liabilities, custody issues, etc. who cares? S corporations do it all the time.

Marriage should be a religious choice conferring no legal standing; that’s what civil unions are for.

Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2013-06-26 11:05:40

Ahhh… A 3-way, eh? I respect and embrace your diversity…

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Comment by Carl Morris
2013-06-26 12:44:32

Marriage should be a religious choice conferring no legal standing; that’s what civil unions are for.

I don’t understand why that solution never caught on. Separation of church and state.

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Comment by 2banana
2013-06-26 12:49:17

How DARE you tell bisexuals they have to choose same-sex or opposite-sex but not both?


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Comment by In Colorado
2013-06-26 13:25:38

three husbands want to split the bread-winner wife’s SS benefits three ways upon retirement

My understanding is that even former spouses are entitled to SS bennies, so there could be more than one recipient.

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Comment by ahansen
2013-06-26 19:51:10

But 1/2 of the wife’s total benefit would have to be divided 3 ways, for a maximum of about $435/month apiece. And that’s assuming they were all married for over 11 years and haven’t remarried.

Comment by frankie
2013-06-26 07:46:35

French woman accused of disguising herself as daughter to sit exam

Police question 52-year-old who reportedly sneaked into Paris exam centre to sit three-hour English Baccalauréat test


Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 07:55:03

Ah, mothers. Much love & respect.

Comment by ahansen
2013-06-26 08:04:38

DOMA overturned. Finally.

Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 08:12:17

This is it! Rapture any day now…..

Comment by ahansen
2013-06-26 08:17:43

Except for poor Justice Scalia’s ‘diseased root”….

Comment by ahansen
Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 08:28:50

As long as the animals consent, I do not see any problems.

Comment by goon squad
2013-06-26 08:19:14

What else would you expect from America’s first gay president?


Comment by ahansen
2013-06-26 08:29:53

Yep. Beer drinking, pork eating, Muslim homosexual. Wonder if “Hot Military Stud, Jeff Gannon” has visited HIM 202 times after-hours at the White House?

Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 08:34:29

Yep. Beer drinking, pork eating, Muslim homosexual.

It’s not so farfetched. There was a report out that Pakistan leads in searches for gay porns in the world.

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Comment by oxide
2013-06-26 11:03:06

“Beer drinking, pork eating, Muslim homosexual who for decades attended a Christian church in Chicago with a radical minister.”

Fixed it for you. Hey, if you can have two wives, why not two religions?

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Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2013-06-26 11:07:59


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Comment by Charlie Tango
2013-06-26 08:32:49

It is about time, now untold millions can marry and receive SS benefits!

Unfunded retirement benefits for all.

Thanks Alena for the great link for dummies, a little complex but I will study up on it.

Comment by In Colorado
2013-06-26 10:03:54

It is about time, now untold millions can marry and receive SS benefits!

FWIW, wouldn’t most already have their own SS benefits. It’s not like they’re unemployed 1950’s housewives.

Comment by ahansen
2013-06-26 10:21:36

And it’s cheaper than maintaining two underemployed single mom households.

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Comment by Charlie Tango
2013-06-26 10:34:24

When you offer this financial incentive, don’t you think that many of those who are single and without a history of meaningful earnings will marry based on their benefit amount?

I’m now single and 60 years old, my SS benefits are based on decades of 6 figure earnings, it will be a waist if I don’t marry a friend that has a history of minimal earnings. I was planning on marrying my girlfriend for this reason, now my options are open to my male friends. Maybe I can demand a financial reward to share my benefits, like on an Ebay auction?

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Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 12:37:22

I think it was Brasil where younger women were marrying retirees for the same reason. Government was trying to crack down on those practices iirc.

Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 11:45:33

It won’t be long before we allow gays and lesbians to bring their foreign partners in the country.

Charlies Tango is right. Sham marriages/divorces is the new frontier. Will provide ample job oppotunities for lawyers.

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Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 11:59:44

I mean to say sham gay marriages.

Sham heterosexual marriages have been going on since Adam and Eve.

Comment by Carl Morris
2013-06-26 12:46:54

I mean to say sham gay marriages.

Sham heterosexual marriages have been going on since Adam and Eve.

I was going to say…after what I saw in the army I wouldn’t expect gay people to add significantly to the total percentage. After all, they were already involved in quite a few of the hetero shams :-).

Comment by aNYCdj
2013-06-26 13:20:50

ere are some interesting articles about Pashtun homosexuality in Afghanistan


Comment by oxide
2013-06-26 13:31:18

Maybe that’s what the Supreme Court ruled today? Heteros are allowed to “cheat.” Disallowing gays from “cheating” is discriminatory.

I’ve heard of several examples where two gays and two lesbians cross-married just for the benefits.

Comment by non-conformist
2013-06-26 16:06:39

Clinton Hails Supreme Court Overturning Law He Signed
Weekly Standard ^ | June 26, 2013 | DANIEL HALPER

Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 2:55:30 PM by grundle

President Bill Clinton released a statement, together with his wife Hillary Clinton, hailing the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn the Defense of Marriage Act, a bill he signed into law in 1996.

“By overturning the Defense of Marriage Act, the Court recognized that discrimination towards any group holds us all back in our efforts to form a more perfect union. We are also encouraged that marriage equality may soon return to California. We applaud the hard work of the advocates who have fought so relentlessly for this day, and congratulate Edie Windsor on her historic victory,” the Clintons’ statement reads.

The statement makes no mention of their previous support for the law.

Comment by 2banana
2013-06-26 08:09:27

Mortgage Applications Collapse To Lowest In 19 Months
Tyler Durden - 06/26/2013 - ZeroHEdge

Once again it seems cash is king if the housing recovery is to continue. Despite the surge in prices that we saw yesterday that reflected the long-forgotten days before mortgage rates exploded, the housing recovery meme remains loud and proud. But, mortgage applications are now down for 7 of the last 8 weeks and have collapsed a stunning 29% over that time. - the biggest plunge in 30 months.

It appears that the ‘rational’ buyer has decided that higher rates are not the factor that drives them to snap up that surging priced home? Is it any wonder, as we noted here, in spite of being told every day how ‘affordable’ housing is with rates this low, their real purchasing power (given a limited budget as opposed to free money-based finance) has plunged by 16% (for now).

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 08:17:26

“Once again it seems cash is king if the housing recovery is to continue.”

Hopefully hedge funds, investment banks, and all-cash Chinese and Canadian investors can keep the housing market rally going in the face of a collapse of end-user U.S. household demand.

Comment by George Zimmer For President
2013-06-26 08:52:49

Capital controls in China may come in near future….

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-06-26 09:43:29

“Mortgage Applications Collapse To Lowest In 19 Months”


Comment by (Neo-) Jetfixr
2013-06-26 13:48:14

I’ve about had it with the weather around here……..

Cold and snowy thru spring, six inches of snow on May 2-3.

About three weeks of hail,thunderstorms and tornados.

Then starting last week, thunderstorms and hail continue, mixed with high humidity, temps in the mid-90s.

All of us dipchits that live in Flyover/BFE should be getting hazardous duty pay. Only the idiot NBKs, who have never lived/visited anyplace else, like it here. My daughter tells me that the PTB around here better pray the economy continues to suck, because all of the 20-30 somethings will GTFOOD at the earliest opportunity.

The weather has always been kinda screwed up around here, but the past 2-3 years have really sucked.

Comment by goon squad
2013-06-26 16:10:36

Umm, that’s kinda racist.

Comment by non-conformist
2013-06-26 16:25:58

(Neo-) Jetfixr

I thought of you buying your daughter a gun when I saw this.

Nanny Cam Catches Crook Breaking Into Home, Brutally Beating …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swCNHpCa7Og - 98k - Cached - Similar pages
1 day ago …

Comment by ahansen
2013-06-26 19:59:06

No rain since December here, and then only two days of year-end storms. Worst drought I’ve ever seen in CA., with no grazing at all this year. Zip. Even the weeds have given up the ghost.

Maybe I’ll finally get rid of all the mustard plaguing my fields and hillsides. :-)

Comment by Rental Watch
2013-06-26 15:01:58


Per Corelogic, foreclosure and delinquency rates are falling in Los Angeles.

Should we put them on the conspiracy list to provide faulty data along with LPS and the NY Fed?

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 21:58:30


Never trust a real estate prostitute firm’s pronouncements.

Comment by Rental Watch
2013-06-26 23:26:47

Well, since Corelogic now owns the Case-Shiller index, is there another home price index we should be looking to use? Perhaps we can bust out a Ouija Board, and see what it says?

There are two possibilities:

1. Despite no one being able to show me an alternate data source that shows different trendlines when it comes to home prices, delinquency data and foreclosure data in California, all data providers are in on this together, and cooking the books together; or

2. Home prices actually are rising, and delinquencies and foreclosures are on the decline in CA.

Occam’s Razor would seem to point to #2.

Comment by Rental Watch
2013-06-26 15:40:15


A good read for people who haven’t yet decided that they know everything.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-06-26 16:15:01



The Treasury inspector general (IG) whose report helped drive the IRS targeting controversy says it limited its examination to conservative groups because of a request from House Republicans.

A spokesman for Russell George, Treasury’s inspector general for tax administration, said they were asked by House Oversight Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) “to narrowly focus on Tea Party organizations.”

Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2013-06-26 17:37:10

Would you invest in municipal bonds right now. Radio ad says that if you have minimum of $10,000 to invest, contact their firm to find out about tax-free municipal bonds. I am convinced that interest rates are bound to go higher eventually, possible soon too. Why buy into bonds if your NAV stands a chance of getting whacked once interest rates rise?

Comment by non-conformist
2013-06-26 18:16:48

Judge Outlaws First Amendment in Bank Graffiti Case

Kurt Nimmo
June 26, 2013

Don’t mess with the banks. That’s the message coming out of a courtroom in San Diego, California, after a man was arrested for writing anti-bank messages outside the Bank of America. Jeff Olsen is charged with 13 counts of vandalism and faces time in prison for expressing his opinion on a public sidewalk.

“I wrote ‘No thanks big banks,’ I wrote ‘Shame on Bank of America,’” Olsen told CBS8 in San Diego. “Always on city sidewalks, washable chalk, never crude messages, never vulgar, clearly topical,” he added.

The San Diego city attorney decided to prosecute Olsen after numerous complaints about the anti-bank messages were sent in an email from a high ranking bank security manager.

Olsen’s attorney argued that his client’s First Amendment right to free speech will be violated if he is convicted on the vandalism charge. Judge Howard Shore said the messages directed at the banking industry have nothing to do with the First Amendment. “In light of the fact that it’s clear in the case law, vandalism is not a legitimate exercise of free speech rights. It really is irrelevant what the message is, or content is,” the judge said.

http://www.infowars.com/judge-outlaws-first-amendment-in-bank-graffiti-case/ -

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 23:25:45

Given that Mel Watt is a black man, is he pretty much a shoe-in for FHFA head, as to oppose him would be racist?

Do Republicans have the option to stick with DeMarco?

Wednesday, 06.26.13
The Miami Herald > News > Political Currents > Politics Wires
Posted on Wednesday, 06.26.13
Uphill battle begins for Mel Watt’s nomination to head mortgage regulator
By Kevin G. Hall
McClatchy Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama’s pick to lead the federal agency that oversees mortgage finance faces an uphill battle Thursday at a Senate confirmation hearing. Many Republicans are happy with the current caretaker and worry that Rep. Mel Watt, D-N.C., will bring a social agenda to the post.

Watt is a longtime lawmaker who’d bring plenty of policy history but little private-sector experience to the job of heading the Federal Housing Finance Agency. The little-known agency regulates Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two mortgage-finance titans that have been in government conservatorship since 2008.

The Senate banking committee will take up Watt’s confirmation against the backdrop of Tuesday’s introduction in the Senate of a bipartisan proposal to revamp Fannie and Freddie, the first serious proposal to overhaul them in the nearly five years they’ve been in government hands.

Fannie and Freddie will be hot topics at Watt’s hearing, in part because many Republicans are happy with the job done by the acting head of the housing finance agency, Edward DeMarco, who’s put Fannie and Freddie on stronger financial footing.

“Most people think he’s doing a decent job, he’s making the improvement that is needed with what he has,” said an aide to a Republican member of the Senate banking committee, speaking only on the condition of anonymity in order to freely discuss GOP views.

What really concerns Republicans, said Barry Zigas, the director of housing policy for the Consumer Federation of America, is that Watt might take a more public policy-oriented approach, while DeMarco is a career civil servant who’s defined the job more narrowly.

Republicans want Fannie and Freddie to keep the focus on profitability and returns for investors who purchase mortgage bonds. Democrats think the mortgage-finance companies should play a bigger role in making access to mortgage lending easier for all Americans, especially for underserved minority communities.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-06-26 23:28:59

June 26, 2013, 8:00 p.m. ET
Business Feels Pinch of Swift Rate Rise

Sharp increases in long-term interest rates, triggered by Federal Reserve statements last week, threaten sales of homes, cars and other big-ticket items that have helped drive the U.S. economic recovery.

Rate increases on interest-sensitive sectors likely aren’t severe enough to derail the recovery, say economists. But they arrived just as the economy’s lagging growth had showed welcome signs of improvement, raising worries among consumers and company executives.

“It causes me to be a bit more cautious,” said Ron DeFeo, the chief executive of Terex Corp. TEX -0.30% The Westport, Conn.-based company makes cranes, paving equipment and other heavy building machines, a business sensitive to interest rate changes. “I am hesitant because I really don’t believe the U.S. economy is in a strong growth mode.”

Rates on conventional 30-year mortgages were 4.56% on Wednesday, up from 3.74% a month ago, according to HSH Associates; rates on investment-grade-rated corporate bonds went to 3.47% from 2.73%, according to Barclays BARC.LN +2.03% ; and yields on 10-year U.S. Treasury notes were 2.54%, up from 1.94%.

The U.S. economy grew at a 1.8% annualized rate in the first quarter this year after barely growing in the fourth quarter of 2012, the Commerce Department said Wednesday. A big chunk of the growth was produced by spending on big-ticket consumer goods and home construction, both sensitive to interest rates. Taking away those two sectors, the economy grew at an anemic 0.9% in the first quarter and contracted in the final three months of 2012.

U.S. car and light-truck sales, for example, are on track to surpass 15 million units this year, up from a low of 10.4 million in 2009. While dealers and industry economists don’t see danger yet, they worry about rising rates.

“As we speak today the car market is generally healthy, but it’s very fragile all in the same breath,” said William C. Fox, who owns four new and used car dealerships in upstate New York. “We feel it very quickly if something goes wrong.”

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