The Housing Bubble

is this your other of many screen names HA? Time to get a real job buddy. We know you cant sell your shanties at 50.

tick tock tick tock.

“Comment by azdude
2013-07-10 05:59:39

is this your other of many screen names HA? Time to get a real job buddy. We know you cant sell your shanties at 50.”

No, Geppetto. I’m a REAL boy. Hey- how about those mortgage applications, huh? You better start snapping up some more RE there, mogul. It never goes down, the used-house-salespeople say.
http://www.mortgagebankers.org/NewsandMedia/PressCenter/84990.htm

“WASHINGTON, D.C. (July 10, 2013) — Mortgage applications decreased 4.0 percent from one week earlier, according to data from the Mortgage Bankers Association’s (MBA) Weekly Mortgage Applications Survey for the week ending July 5, 2013. This week’s results included an adjustment for the July 4th holiday.

The Market Composite Index, a measure of mortgage loan application volume, decreased 4.0 percent on a seasonally adjusted basis from one week earlier. On an unadjusted basis, the Index decreased 23 percent compared with the previous week. The Refinance Index decreased 4 percent from the previous week. The seasonally adjusted Purchase Index decreased 3 percent from one week earlier. The unadjusted Purchase Index decreased 23 percent compared with the previous week and was 5 percent higher than the same week one year ago.

The refinance share of mortgage activity decreased to 64 percent of total applications. The adjustable-rate mortgage (ARM) share of activity decreased to 7 percent of total applications. The HARP share of refinance applications rose from 34 percent the prior week to 35 percent.

The average contract interest rate for 30-year fixed-rate mortgages with conforming loan balances ($417,500 or less) increased to 4.68 percent, the highest rate since July 2011, from 4.58 percent, with points increasing to 0.46 from 0.43 (including the origination fee) for 80 percent loan-to-value ratio (LTV) loans. The effective rate increased from last week…”

OH MY GOD!!!

4.68%!!!

Run for the hills everyone!!!

Ahhhhhh!!!!

Fun fact: mortgage rates were in the 5.5% range in 2003, 2004, 2005 at the height of the last housing boom. But 4.68% is evidence of the coming crash.

You peeps are entertaining.

“Fun fact: mortgage rates were in the 5.5% range in 2003, 2004, 2005 at the height of the last housing boom. But 4.68% is evidence of the coming crash.”

+1 True. I had to buy-down basis points to level off my 30-yr conforming Countrywide mortgage at 5.50% fixed when I bought my spec 3/2 rancher back in 3/2003 for $125k w/$50k down in eastern Washington. The dot-com crash gripped the economy in fear, and oil dipped under $10-bbl, IIRC.

Slithers,

Do you need to be schooled on long term interest rate trends again?

It seems that mortgage rates are rising so is that going to lead to lower prices soon? I hope so.
I’ve been a participant on this blog since 2004, and it is interesting to see how the comments have changed
In my opinion, not for the better.

“Fun fact: mortgage rates were in the 5.5% range in 2003, 2004, 2005 at the height of the last housing boom. But 4.68% is evidence of the coming crash.”

Why do Realtors™ constantly post irrelevant and misleading information here?

I’ve been a participant on this blog since 2004,

2004?? Really? I thought Ben was just barely getting it started in Dec of 2004…

Well….. Al and his alter egos can’t tell the truth so take it with a grain of salt.

How can that be when houses depreciate?

I think the train has left the station or the ship has sailed, but to my knowledge, trains trying to sail will sink…..

Trains running downhill will explode.

The true “investment” in housing is construction.

Someone finally stated it!

party time!!! I bet has a lot of fun spending that cash from the home sale.

What cash?

The true “investment” in housing is construction.

Assuming you get the land for free.

LOLZ

AlphaSlithers,

We don’t earn profit when we buy land?

You go girl!

“Assuming you get the land for free.”

Land is a cost of construction, not an investment.

You should tell your buddy that land is included in the cost of construction. That will blow his square foot costs out of the water, maybe even provide him with a moment of clarity.

I sold because I made a very nice profit. You will never grow broke making 30% annually! I would not have sold if the tenant were not such a tool, but he took up way too much of my time and time is my most valuable commodity today. If I were retired, it might be different.

I sold because I made a nice profit and was tired of the time drain from the flakey tenant. You will never go broke making 30% annually…..and time is my most valuable asset today. It might be different if I were retired.

Hey Jingle Balls,

Show us a link.

(no link, you’re a liar)

(no link, you’re a liar)

Nope—I believe him.

Naive with no nose fore bull$hit.

Zillow it. 1212 Hillwood Loop, Lincoln, CA 95648

Actually, Zillow will not have the sale information yet and probably not have it for another few months!

Try http://www.metrolistmls.com

Why is it remarkable that some people made money by flipping the Bernanke echo bubble? Wasn’t that exactly the plan?

You are right. Nothing remarkable, just hard work, paying attention, a little risk and a little luck. Yes, that was the plan.

Well played, my friend…

I’m reminded of what the Bible said about not letting the left hand know what the right hand has done.

You are correct PIC, but we are getting there. It will take a couple of more years to get into balance. Would you rather buy a house now or in 2 more years (assuming your income can support the purchase)?

Would you rather buy a house now or in 2 more years (assuming your income can support the purchase)?

I think I’d rather buy a house in 2 more years—or perhaps even later, when I don’t have the sense that the market is actively being rigged by people with infinitely-deep pockets.

And yes, my income could support the purchase today; but I think I’ll wait and buy with cash instead, in a normal market. Today’s market seems to have almost no inventory, and too many buyers with the whiff of desperation… It’s like chum in the water.

Still the dishonest double talk JingleBalls?

Why is that?

The multi-generational screw job that began in 1913 was institutionalized during the 1930s.

Bbbbut bbbbbut bbbbut Social Security is the greatest thing ever in the history of mankind. And FDR saved the country by raising income tax rates to 90%. And even though the great depression lasted for 9 years after FDR came to power, he’s still the second best president ever (after King Barrack of course).

obama probably taught trayvon his family recipe for sizzurp:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sizzurp

He would dress him in Rayon.

+1 Now that is funny!

More info and recipes for Trayvon Martin’s beverage of choice here:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_drank

The recipes all call for a jolly rancher, which can easily be melted into syrup. A skittle wouldn’t melt right.

Aren’t they both mostly HFC? I’d think they would melt about the same. Maybe the skittle has some gelatin in it?

read even more about lean / sizzurp / purple drank here:

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/23/entertainment/la-et-ms-lil-wayne-sizzurp-codeine-20130321

Skittles have a gelatin interior and a hard crunchy outer shell. I doubt they’d melt into the clear syrup that pictures show sizzurp (or whatever it is) to be. Everything I saw on it called for jolly ranchers. But the article goon posted above says you just mix the cough syrup with any soft drink, and you’re done, no candy required, nor any specific flavor soda.

There apparently was no codeine in Treyvon’s system anyway, so it’s all just a wild conjecture of right-wing websites.

Weenieism. Its a disease that runs rampant throughout the RE community. They say its a result of all the the ether-huffing and the shallow gene pool.

Plus, most of what I’ve said is that housing is overvalued, but nowhere near 65% overvalued.

And you know this how Krusty The realtor?

Yet the reality is currently housing is overpriced by 250%.

I thought this was a good article on the class angle involved in the Zimmerman-Martin show trial:

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2013/07/wrong-side-of-street.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FromNyToIsraelSultanRevealsTheStoriesBehindTheNews+%28from+NY+to+Israel+Sultan+Reveals+The+Stories+Behind+the+News%29

“Zimmerman is the latest Bernie Goetz; another wholly unlikely cult figure who currently campaigns for vegetarian lunches in public schools and squirrel rescue. It’s not that the two men had anything particularly in common. Unlike Goetz, it is very unlikely that Zimmerman jumped the gun, so to speak, but they both fill a similar niche. They represent the embattled lower half of the middle class.

To understand the Zimmerman case, you have to live in a neighborhood that has just enough property values to keep you paying the mortgage and just enough proximity to dangerous territories to make you feel like you’re living on the frontier.”

See, it even has a housing angle.

The author also sees Zimmerman-Martin as a symptom of social collapse, and I would agree. Probably not only a symptom, but maybe the spark if he’s acquitted. They’re already running PSAs here in certain Florida markets aimed at black youth on peaceful protest.

The trial was a really. bad. idea. Only delaying the inevitable, really. And like most delaying tactics, the end game, when it comes, is far worse than the original blood-letting would have been.

very nice article.

The Time Machine is one of my favorite sci-fi books.

Looks like Eloi-Morlock to me.

It’s about racism. Racism is strong in that part of FL.

“very nice article.”

+1 Good comments too.

“Middle-class is a value system, not just an income bracket. Values include education, personal responsibility, citizenship, and private property rights.”

“The American black “middle class” is new, and entirely propped up with government minority contracts, wealth transfer payments, easy subsidized loans, public sector jobs, race-based preferences, quotas, and Affirmative Action. I have actually heard educated black people say that whites are “finally letting us have a little something.” This is quite telling.”

There was some racism there, mostly in the comments, in my opinion. But there were some good nuggets of truth to be found, too. I thought bringing up nomadic culture versus whatever you call northern European culture was actually an interesting way to view it. We romanticize ancient nomadic cultures that we wiped out. Yet we find that same mindset much less romantic in the present. Or maybe it’s all crap. But it seemed kind of profound to me.

“The American black “middle class” is new, and entirely propped up with government minority contracts, wealth transfer payments, easy subsidized loans, public sector jobs, race-based preferences, quotas, and Affirmative Action. I have actually heard educated black people say that whites are “finally letting us have a little something.” This is quite telling.”

This is white supremacist nonsense written by a person who has no idea what he is talking about. There was a book called Black Bourgeoisie back in 1957 that documented the life of the black middle class at that time. This was during the period of segregation in the South and before the federal Civil Rights Acts of 1963 and ‘64 that made employment discrimination illegal. Affirmative Action also did not exist.

I took a couple of minutes to read that comment. The guy goes on at some length about how it is impossible for blacks to compete with whites or have middle class values. What he doesn’t he realize is that his racist attitudes reflect the culture of low class, loser whites.

He’s a racist a–hole; he doesn’t know what the f— he’s talking about. But at least he’s got one thing going for him. At least he’s got one quality that he can feel good about. At least he’s white. At least he ain’t no n—er.

It’s a story about what happens when people are backed into a corner and then told to stay there. It’s about a frightened middle class trying to survive

Maybe that’s why I feel so bad about being on Zimmerman’s side. There is a part of me that thinks I must be racist. Then there is another part of me that just chased a coyote out of the field to protect my cats.

“Anybody that takes what a teenager says as 100% Gospel truth is an idiot.”

Unless his name is Trayvon.

My ex-girlfriend’s brother was out in their parents’ car playing mailbox baseball with his buddies one night in high school.

Either the driver was drinking or got distracted, but he accidentally hit one of the (sturdier) mailbox posts with the car and tore up most of the passenger side.

GF’s brother blamed it on black kids from the next town over.

Your grandmother would be ashamed of you, Smithers. Trayvon is dead. He isn’t talking.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-25/washington-s-population-grows-with-biggest-white-influx-since-fdr-s-time.html

“In the four years since Lindsay Pettingill moved near Howard University in Washington, D.C., she has seen the growing mark of young newcomers like herself: The booming farmers’ market, the Macintosh laptops at the café, even the occasional Red Sox cap when the team comes to town. The 30-year-old Georgetown University graduate student said she loves the century-old buildings and diversity of a neighborhood where blacks have long had a large majority.”

“Diverse” neighborhoods due to differences in skin color is a very outdated idea.

Neighborhoods aren’t diverse due to skin color. They are diverse due to viewpoints and approaches to the world.

Washington DC is the least diverse metropolitan area that I know of.

“Neighborhoods aren’t diverse due to skin color.”

In addition to viewpoints and approaches, there’s the economic realities too.

The trendy thing for enlightened liberals with COEXIST stickers is to move into “diverse” neighborhoods.

Really? Not around here. They invite just a small slice of the most docile kind of diversity to their neighborhood at subsidized prices, but don’t even consider moving themselves to a “poor” neighborhood.

Neighborhoods aren’t diverse due to skin color. They are diverse due to viewpoints and approaches to the world.

I think most people are very open to skin color diversity. It’s social norm diversity that makes them nervous.

I agree, Carl.

Skin color diversity was the “in” thing 40 years ago, but no longer. Diversity gods or goddesses can no longer hang their hats on such antiquated thinking without coming across as @sses.

Yet, a great many people still think that being open to skin color means they are enlightened.

Diversity of thought is more challenging. Can’t do that, though, without having to deal with people who are “different”.

Toward that end, you typical “diversity”-speak San Franciscan and Washingtonian isn’t diverse in the least.

Toward that end, you typical “diversity”-speak San Franciscan and Washingtonian isn’t diverse in the least.

I’m OK with that. It’s human nature. It’s just the hypocrisy that bothers me.

That too, Al.

A good many “diversity” gods and goddesses refuse to live in places that make them uncomfortable economically.

In many cases, diversity is all about shared lifestyles and common-think neighbors. Lots of diversity whores are willing to pay a pretty penny for that.

I am okay with it, too.

I am tired of the hypocrisy as well.

Appears to be one of those cases where those that find fault in others are guilty of the same tendency.

Now that I think about it, my nabe is fairly diverse from an ethnic standpoint. The only family that people want to see leave are the ones with the old car and other junk around the house.

I enjoy ethnic foods and festivals and styles and new ideas.

Theft, assault, and murder are not diversity. They occur in homogenous areas as well as in diverse ones.

Toward that end, you typical “diversity”-speak San Franciscan and Washingtonian isn’t diverse in the least.

What does it mean for a person to be diverse?

Most of FL (and the South in general) is a shithole. Places that would be productive suburban communties with good schools and easy living are, in fact, dumps for all the crap that couldn’t get a good job in the north. Large parts of FL are populated by cast-off refuse from NY and NJ, in particular. The economic winners stay, the losers move to FL.

Spoken like a true Coastal Elitist Bedwetter there, Downlow Joe.

My parents spend a lot of the year in FL now. Outside of a few areas, you’d really have to be ultra wealthy (have your own gated compound) or a teabilly to enjoy it. My parents are tea-flavored and they enjoy it. They basically are oblivious to the cultural poverty in the tacky “gated communities” springing up all over the place. They don’t give 2 fucks that the FL schools are a joke. For me, I find those things hard to overlook and I abreact when I see these things. At least if I see a bad area of DC (e.g. Anacostia) or Baltimore (e.g. West Baltimore) I feel like it’s the exception rather than the rule. Like the poverty is an unfortunate part of the human condtion. In FL, it’s the rule and it’s part of the plan for America’s future. Funnily, it’s the plan because this country no longer plans for anything. It’s a free-for-all.

Funnily, it’s the plan because this country no longer plans for anything.

Planning requires leadership willing to stick their neck out by putting their name on a plan to start with.

Pride goeth before a fall, Joe.

“Most of FL (and the South in general) is a shithole.”

Yes, we all know. Anything outside of 7 blocks in Manhattan is a shithole.

“Anything outside of 7 blocks in Manhattan is a shithole.”

Same for Washington.

It’s interesting to troll the City Data forums and see the number of people from the Northeast looking to move elsewhere, mainly NC and Fla. Mostly Vermont, Connecticut and from the mid-Atlantic, NJ. The attitude is amazing, too. I don’t know why they don’t stay where they are, even just the thought of moving brings out all the spittin’ witch comments about the South and the education in the South and the culture, etc. And yet that’s where they want to move, because they’re literally being driven out by taxes, weather and deteriorating conditions.

Like I said, it’s the economic losers and the older people who want to equity vulture. The quality of the public schools down there is atrocious. Like most hardcore Republicans, my parents of course didn’t really want their kids to go to school in the south but now they have no qualms about living in FL just enough days per year to avoid state income taxes. It’s pretty funny.

+1.

Yup.

The Zimmerman acquittal won’t result in “collapse”, but there will be riots.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Reginald_Denny

We can make a presumption of acquittal, but you can never predict what a jury will do. Especially if they feel they’ll have a target on their backs if they acquit.

This, too, shows social collapse. I would hate to be a member of that jury. Their lives won’t be worth a plug nickel if they acquit Zimmerman.

but there will be riots.

And they will not be evenly distributed.

Colorado only has like 5 black people in the whole state, so there won’t be any riots here.

Wouldn’t want to be in Cincinnati, Baltimore, etc after Zimmerman gets acquitted.

Like I said, don’t be so sure he’ll be acquitted. The jury has to decide.

If what I’m hearing and reading is true, by rights he should be acquitted.

But if I’m a jury member, the issue is him or me (and my family). It isn’t about justice anymore. It’s about survival.

So I actually doubt if he’ll be acquitted.

Colorado only has like 5 black people in the whole state, so there won’t be any riots here.

Wow, I didn’t realize I knew all of them :-).

My personal opinion is that Zimmerman provoked the confrontation, but there may not be sufficient evidence to disprove his claim of self defense. Like OJ, I expect him to be acquitted not because of innocence, but because of reasonable doubt.

I expect acquittal will generate protests in some places and some of them will probably ignite into riots.

Will this case encourage future neighborhood watchmen to be more aggressive or more cautious? My guess is that acquittal encourages aggression among those inclined to be neighborhood watchmen. So I expect an increase in similar cases for a while.

He will be convicted. Whether there will be riots or not despite conviction remains to be seen.

Pretty much.

And stupid enough to vote for shrub twice.

“Heh, heh, this sucker could go down, heh, heh.”

And it’s not health care companies. It’s health insurance companies. It’s annoying as hell when people conflate the two. And also shows a complete lack of understanding of the topic at hand.

“The rates were increased in order to conform to the law.”
Where in the law did it say that?

The law mandates a whole bunch of “Services” that all policies have to provide. Those services cost money. Therefore policy premiums increase. The other part is the community rating insanity. If I weigh 300 lbs, have had 2 heart attacks in the past year I will pay the same rate as someone who weights 175 lbs and is in perfect shape. You know, fairness and all.

Do try to keep up with Econ 101 basics.

The law mandates a whole bunch of “Services” that all policies have to provide. Those services cost money.

That needs to be repeated again and again. I have my issues with the right but left is not serious about any issue…all pie in the sky scheme….

“The law goes away, the rates fall back to their natural demand/supply equilibrium.”

I’m not so sure the demand/supply equilibrium applies all that well in the health insurance market. Too oligopical.

I’m not so sure the demand/supply equilibrium applies all that well in the health insurance market. Too oligopical.

That’s a polite version of what I was about to say.

Capitalism has no ethics, no morals and no conscience. Under totally “free market” capitalism if you are poor and sick you should die. Tell me why capitalism should care if poor people die because of no healthcare, pollution or high fat/sugar processed foods? I can’t think of one.

We had three choices.
1) Don’t do anything.
2) Craft a new healthcare system modeled on the best healthcare systems in the world - lower costs & better patient outcomes like longer life spans, lower infant mortality rate, preventive care…
3) Use a healthcare model crafted by the Heritage Foundation with lobbyist writing the legislation. (See RomneyCare)

Tell me why capitalism should care if poor people die because of no healthcare, pollution or high fat/sugar processed foods? I can’t think of one.

What’s so f’ing moral about forcing one to pay some other person’s tabs?

“I’m not so sure the demand/supply equilibrium applies all that well in the health insurance market. Too oligopical.”

There are about 30 national/regional insurance companies in the country. On top of that several other insurers that operate only in a 1 state or in some cases only in a few counties.

Oligopoly? Not even close.

New Golden Rule: Do unto others before they do it to you.

“What’s so f’ing moral about forcing one to pay some other person’s tabs?”

Hell yeah! Why do I have to pay for that f’ing 4 trillion dollar Iraq/Afghanistan war?

Your forgot #4

Get the govt out of the way. 30-40 years ago health care was pretty cheap. Then govt decided to help.

Same goes for college tuition.

Hopefully the end result of all of this is a smart national health care plan, something along the lines of japan or western europe. Of course, LOL, this is ‘murka so anything is possible, it will probably be some other variant that still includes private health insurers.

As Bluestar says, if insurance (not just health ins but any insurance) were a pure and unregulated capitalist system, any time there was a large claim the insurer would find ways to deny coverage or discontinue the insurance. What prevents them from doing this is the legal system and the regulatory structures. Of course, yes, any legal system or reg structure implies costs. The question is whether the costs outweigh the benefits of having a functioning system where insurance companies act reasonably predictably. Anything dealing with civil law, IME, is mostly about smoothing out rough edges and promoting continuity/satisfying expectations.

How do you know a liberal’s lost an argument? Look for one of these 3 easy to spot signs

1. Calls you racist

2. Says Faux News

3. Mentions something Bush did that has nothing to do with the topic at hand

“Why do I have to pay for that f’ing 4 trillion dollar Iraq/Afghanistan war?”

King Barrack,

You’re so close you almost get it.

Insurance is a contract. Nothing more, nothing less. If the issuer of an insurance policy doesn’t abide by the terms, then you can sue that insurer for breach of contract.

This was in place long before St Barrack came to power.

You can’t sue health insurance companies for refusing your claim. They adopted mandatory arbitration clauses long ago. If you don’t like their decision, you have to beg their contractor to change their mind. You can try to go to your state’s insurance regulator if you want, but good luck with that.

Alena? Don’t you have some recent experience with that?

“Oligopoly? Not even close.”

The exemptions granted to health insurers to the Sherman-Anti Trust statues make it a defacto oligopoly.

Hell yeah! Why do I have to pay for that f’ing 4 trillion dollar Iraq/Afghanistan war?

Welcome to the club.

“Why do I have to pay for that f’ing 4 trillion dollar Iraq/Afghanistan war?”

Because the neo-cons have the porch light on for Jesus when he returns.

Not to mention that even if you can get a lawyer to sue an insurer in court (get around the arbitration clause) the delays would be devastating. Think the legal system’s gears grind slowly now? Imagine if they were overwhelmed with BS insurance denials. And hey, you really didn’t need that chemo anyway, the insurance company shouldn’t have to pay for it so they won’t. Plus, your application ommited that your maternal grandfather died of prostate cancer. Ding, you’re out of luck.

Yeah, I say we turn insurance into a battle between lawyers. No reason people can’t just wait it out to get healthcare. Or that hospitals/docs shouldn’t just provide it and wait until the case settles 3 yrs later to get paid. No problem with this at all. Most people have a million bucks sitting around so they can pay for their own mastectomy + chemo + reconstruction. And when the case settles, the insurer will just pay them back. Right? Right?

Get the govt out of the way. 30-40 years ago health care was pretty cheap. Then govt decided to help.

Same goes for college tuition.

Most people who go to college go to state universities and community colleges. Government has been involved for 100 years.

Health care was cheap until the HMOs were created.

Period.

“… 30-40 years ago health care was pretty cheap….”

No. It wasn’t. It was insanely expensive, which is why they came up with HMO’s, then PPO’s to try to lower the costs.

It didn’t.

Health care was cheap until the HMOs were created.

I thought HMOs were created because health care was becoming too expensive…

That’s true but capitalism only cares if the stockholders get sick or the demand for food drops and causes the price of food to drop below the cost of production. I would postulate that there is no “morality” variable in the equation Profit=Sale price - Cost of production. If you want ethics, morality, justice and liberty you have to create a government who can make and enforce laws that will do it for us collectively.

Epidemic plague knows no morality.

Natural disaster know no morality.

Lack of skilled professionals knows no morality.

They all have (deadly) consequences for both rich and poor if not addressed.

It really is that simple.

+1 That “moon-face” comes from prednisone steroids.

Interesting thought. Those can come with some pretty strange side effects on the mental health side of things.

I see the blame Democrats/blame Republicans propaganda is working very well.

When you heard Dick Cheney voice support for Obama on Fox News, were you not just a wee bit surprised??

“This is what happens when you vote for style over substance.”

-1 Eight years of ignorant, chicken-fried, neo-con shill, religious-right, cowboy swaggering substance was enough for this conservative voter to cross party lines.

I wasn’t surprised.

Nor was I surprised when Chris Christie was so readily accepted by those who hated him the previous week.

Neocons = Progressives
Progressives = Neocons

To presume otherwise is to be an idiot.

“This is what happens when you vote for style over substance.”

-1 Eight years of ignorant, chicken-fried, neo-con shill, religious-right, cowboy swaggering substance was enough for this conservative voter to cross party lines.

Oh that was style over substance too. It’s not like one side has a monopoly on voting for it. They just prefer different styles.

You didn’t cross party lines, rms. You got hoodwinked.

Bush = Obama
Obama = Bush

You voted for the Neocon-Progressive Party in each of the past four elections.

When Republicans do bad things, we blame Republicans. When Democrats do bad things, we shrug our shoulders and say well, the system sucks and vote for Democrats again.

Which Republicans blame Republicans, Smithers? I don’t know any. MacBeth has it right.

What party is the CIA, the FBI, NSA or DoD? Looks to me they aren’t D or R. They are the living embodiment of what capitalism can do with the technology. Our government, both parties support it and defend it.

I’m actually a 19th. century anarchist.

“What party is the CIA, the FBI, NSA or DoD? Looks to me they aren’t D or R”

Or right. I forgot. When bad stuff happens under an “R” administration it’s the R’s fault. When bad stuff happens under a “D” administration, it’s just the system and nobody can really be blamed.

Yes, it’s clear that both parties do roughly the same things. Deep down, almost every R and D elected official in DC strongly supports the Security State and the War on Turrr.

Obama being better than Romney is very small consolation when you consider that Obama really hasn’t lifted a finger to stop the encroachment of the military and contractors on everyday Americans.

Nor has he done anything to stop the encroachment of the IRS or the EPA on everyday Americans.

Dude Obama has instructed fed workers to spy on each other. And they can get fired or fined if they don’t. And you still defend him and whine about Bush and Romney. Beyond pathetic.

How am I defending him? I’m saying he’s really no better than Bush. When it comes to the war on turrrr, the only difference I see between the two is that Obama really did vote against going to war whereas Bush took us to war.

I would support a 3rd party, both the D’s and R’s suck beyond belief.

“both the D’s and R’s suck beyond belief.”

You guys are a riot. Ds and Rs suck but we will vote for Ds 99.98% of the time and whenever a D does stuff we don’t like, we shrug our shoulders and say “the system sucks, what can you do?”. Rinse. Repeat.

IMO, both the Ds and Rs suck, but the Rs suck more. Smithers, you apparently believe the opposite.

I don’t vote for R’s or D’s for the most part. And I used to be a Republican, like many other northeastern types I defected to become independent/agnostic because I can’t stomach the stupidity that results from pandering to southerners, dumbs, and poors.

I have the feeling that It may actually work here.

You have problem with Corporate Communist Capitalism©®™, comrade?

Why would polly have an escape plan and I wouldn’t? All I’ve been talking about is how the path we’re on is not sustainable.

I represent PRIVATE CONTRACTORS. There is no way the U.S. will keep paying private contractors the rates they’ve been getting. It’s just not possible. Eventually it will have to slow down.

My family has signif assets and I’m working on that for myself personally. I often talk about how I save ridiculous % of my after tax income and have no debt other than a LOL mortgage that is about 1 yr’s post-tax income. My wife is well educated and hard working, not obsessed with reality TV and shopping.

No one can prepare for everything, but if TSHTF it’s not going to be a big surprise to me I won’t be caught with my pants down.

Downlow Joe, have you ever lived in the same building (or neighborhood) with a black or brown person who wasn’t there on a scholarship?

Your elitism and sense of entitlement sounds no different than the “I’ve got mine and f* the rest of you” mentality that you attribute to the Koch fluffer bootstrappers that you allegedly abhor.

If TSHTF, I do not expect to escape. We’ll all go down together. No amount of saving will protect anyone. Even the Romneys and Kochs will suffer.

@goon squad -

Yes, when I was working in New York I lived in very inexpensive apartment buildings (like $900/month, at least half minorities not counting asians). This was in Jersey City and Washington Heights. I never wanted to shell out for trendy places or fratty buildings that charged at least $3k for a 1BR or $4k for 2BR. That’s not even a fancy place in NYC, that’s a random basic apartment with a crappy kitchen, 1 bathroom, no closet space, and no in-apt laundry.

Mystery solved.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68R40I20100928

Stick to your Dick and Jane readers.