September 3, 2013

Bits Bucket for September 3, 2013

Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.




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Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 04:45:27

“Housing is massively overpriced irrespective of location. Why buy when you can rent for half the the monthly cost?”

Exactly. Then buy later as prices roll back to the long term trend or roughly 1997 levels.

Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 16:06:19
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 16:25:16

When all else fails, link to jparson…. a NAR funded web site.

Well done Darrell.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 17:28:30

When all else fails, link to jparson…. a NAR funded web site.

Who’s going to have housing charts? The United Bakers Union?

From his post:
Data sources and methodology

Latest quarterly, median, existing, single-family home price provided by the National Association of Realtors.
Trailing house price index data provided by Standard and Poors (1987-Present), the Federal Housing Finance Agency (1975-1986), and Freddie Mac (1970-1974).
Inflation data provided by the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland (1977-Present) and the Bureau of Labor Statistics (1

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Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 17:45:01

That’s right. If NAR says so, it’ must be true. Isn’t that right Polished Turd?

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 19:07:19

Isn’t that right Polished Turd?

Please call me more of your crappy names. Lol (that was funny) It undermines your increasingly diminished “credibility”.

(btw: Exetor has gone nuts)

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 19:28:11

You wear it well.

 
 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 17:36:38

“…a NAR funded web site.”

Doesn’t the NAR pretty much fund everything? For Chrissakes, they advertise on National Public Radio, which is supposedly non-profit! Hopefully some Republican politician will revoke NPR’s not-for-profit tax exempt status before the NAR advertising drives everyone to the foolish mistake of buying a home at bubble price levels.

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Comment by 2banana
2013-09-03 05:36:28

They were never anti-war, only anti-Bush

That is obvious to all now.

Hypocrites all.

—————————–

Antiwar Left Stays Quiet On Syria
Buzzfeed | 8/28/13 | Rosie Gray

WASHINGTON — On the eve of American military intervention in Syria, the once-robust antiwar movement has stayed curiously silent.

Activists who turned out thousands of protesters during the lead-up to the invasion of Iraq say they’ve been unable to effectively organize or raise money since the end of the Bush years, and that newer causes like drones have seized the space on the left once occupied by opposition to conventional warfare. And some acknowledge that the energy has leaked out of the movement because a Democrat is now in office. Though some groups have organized online petitions and some real-life protests, the antiwar crowd that was on fire before the war in Iraq has made hardly a dent in the conversation surrounding Syria.

“Well, the most incredibly depressing thing was that most of the groups that existed before don’t exist anymore,” said Medea Benjamin, the founder of Code Pink. “That’s the number one problem, is that the antiwar movement is a shadow of its former self under the Bush years.”

Comment by jose canusi
2013-09-03 05:54:52

I guess it depends on whose war it is.

In other news, I see John McCain has endorsed a strike against Syria. Gee, what a surprise. At first, I saw a clip of him advising against it, and I was shocked, I tell you, SHOCKED that Kerry seemed to be more bellicose than McCain. But not for long. I should have known. McCain never saw a military action he didn’t like, as long as he can support it from afar.

Comment by the golden boy
2013-09-03 06:50:56

Is there any war McShame doesn’t like?

 
Comment by United States of Moral Hazard
2013-09-03 09:41:51

“100 years!”

 
Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2013-09-03 10:20:21

[IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/2mq47lj.jpg[/IMG]

 
 
Comment by oxide
2013-09-03 06:00:37

If it’s any consolation, there is a still a pretty strong anti-war contingent over at libtard DK (you know who I mean).

What you’re seeing is not “hypocrisy,” you’re seeing “critical thinking.” They are asking each other: is the boy crying wolf again, or it is the real wolf this time?

Comment by jose canusi
2013-09-03 06:11:13

They’re seeing wolves where there aren’t any, or inventing wolves.

At some point, you have to confront the fact (and it IS a fact) that these folks in Washington are insane. And I don’t mean merely eccentric, mumbling to themselves garden variety nuts. I’m talking full-on batsh*t crazy. Syphlitic Roman emperor/ senator type insane. Get down on the floor and chew on the rug type insane. Roll around in dead animal entrails and howl at the moon type insane.

I used to read some of Wayne Madsen’s Washington reports back in the day, and stopped because it was pretty raw stuff and seemed really over the top and for that reason really hard to believe. I’m starting to believe it now.

Comment by United States of Moral Hazard
2013-09-03 10:33:47

I don’t look at them as insane. I look at them as evil, narcissistic scumbags who live to feed their egos and line their pockets while digging their pointy heels into the faces of those they were elected to represent.

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 18:27:37

Both of you make a good point.

 
 
 
Comment by michael
2013-09-03 06:42:05

“What you’re seeing is not “hypocrisy,” you’re seeing “critical thinking.”

lol

Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2013-09-03 06:48:24

Yeah, I gagged a little when I read that too. Oh, the hypocrisy of refusing to acknowledge hypocrisy. “Critical thinking”. Wow.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 07:27:04

Bush initiated the Iraq war, Obama wound it down.

That seems like a big difference to me, and perhaps to many in the anti-war movement.

 
Comment by oxide
2013-09-03 07:40:26

These is a set of people who are protesting any action in Sryia, despite what Obama says. That set of people are not being hypocrites; they are being consistently anti-war.

There is a set of people who are critical thinkers and look at the actual situation, not just who is President at the time. They are the people who looked at the data on Afghanistan and reluctantly supported action there, then looked at the data on Iraq and vehemently opposed action there. The jury is still out on Syria. That set of people are not being hypocrites either; they are consistently looking at the data, no matter who is President.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 08:02:42

“Critical thinking”. Wow.

Try it sometime. It’s fun!

Some critical thinking points:

(”only anti-Bush”?)

1. Almost 60% of Senate Democrats voted for the Iraq war resolution as did 40% of the House Democrats fitting the definition of bi-partisan support.

2. Iraq’s possession of WMD’s was alleged. Syria’s is not.

3. The plans for Iraq were for a massive number of “boots on the ground”. The plans for Syria are not.

4. Under Bush’s leadership, at one point, 76% of Americans supported the Iraq war. 76% of Americans includes a lot of Democrats. 90 percent supported U.S. action in Afghanistan in 2001, which means most Democrats did.

From the article:
“the most incredibly depressing thing was that most of the groups that existed before don’t exist anymore,” …the antiwar movement is a shadow of its former self under the Bush years.”

Is this a big wonder? Is it hard to figure out? It’s “just politics”?

1. The anti-war movement has shrunk today because the Afgan/Iraq wars have been wound down.

2. The Iraq war protesters (rightfully?) did not believe Bush on Iraq. Who does not believe chemical weapon were not used by Assad?

You guys can’t see your politics and see some critical thinking differences?

It’s math, objectivity, history, context and critical thinking.

 
Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2013-09-03 08:13:08

“Try it sometime. It’s fun!”

And how would you know?

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 08:19:36

(critical thinking) And how would you know?

How would I know? Because I just wrote, read and understand the differences pointed out in my above post.

If you re-read it objectively instead of simply spouting mind-numbing, political opinion talking-points…..you might know too.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2013-09-03 08:38:38

2. The Iraq war protesters (rightfully?) did not believe Bush on Iraq. Who does not believe chemical weapon were not used by Assad?

Um… Many thinking people?

There is more than a small probability that the chemical weapons were employed by the rebel side, or as a false flag measure.

 
Comment by the golden boy
2013-09-03 08:48:07

2. Iraq’s possession of WMD’s was alleged. Syria’s is not.

You know that Chemical Ali gassed thousands in Kurds in late 80’s.

Critical thinking? #FAIL!

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2013-09-03 08:50:07

‘I just wrote, read and understand the differences pointed out in my above post’

‘read it objectively instead of simply spouting mind-numbing, political opinion talking-points’

So you just won an argument with your self and any one who disagrees with your conclusion is just not being objective. Got it.

 
Comment by tresho
2013-09-03 08:50:38

Who does not believe chemical weapon were not used by Assad?
A great many who’s. Assad is winning & there was no reason for him to use chemicals. Plus many other reasons. Furthermore, to quote Hillary Rodham Hussein, “What difference does it make?” By your defective and selective reasoning the USA delayed far too long in its invasion of Iraq and deposition of Saddam Hussein, and should have invaded in 1988!

 
Comment by tresho
2013-09-03 08:51:38

an argument with your self and any one who disagrees with your conclusion is just not being objective.
Rio, in a nutshell.

 
Comment by Northeastener
2013-09-03 08:51:40

*Iraq was a lone actor with no allies in the region. Syria is supported by Hezbollah, Iran, and Russia. The Geopolitics are very messy and could very easily conflate into World War.

*Iraq had a large, but largely low-tech military. Syria has a well-equipped, modern military with some of the best anti-air defenses and anti-ship missiles the Russians have produced.

*Iraq had been isolated and under sanction since the end of the first Gulf War, which meant that much of the military-industrial complex was stagnating. Syria has been actively at war for over two years, meaning it’s troops are now battle-hardened veterans and it’s equipment and tactics have been proven.

*UN investigators have not nor can they determine who used WMD’s, only that they were used. There is no evidence linking the actual use of WMD’s to Assad and history is rife with staged “False Flag” attacks, not the least of which was Iraq and the presence of WMD’s. Anyone recall the mobile WMD factories Powell presented to the UN?

*Al Qaeda and other terrorist insurgent groups are fighting the Assad regime in Syria. Can anyone say with a straight face that they support putting US military lives at risk in support of Al Qaeda and it’s goals? I understand Al Qaeda’s roots in the CIA support of the Mujaheddin against the Soviets, but that was before 9/11 and before 3000 American civilians lost their lives on US soil. Al Qaeda is the enemy and the enemy of my enemy is my friend, which means we should be supporting Assad, or at the least not supporting the rebels.

* Saudi Arabia is pushing hard behind the scenes to push the US into action. We should tread very lightly whenever Saudi Arabia wants us to do something this strongly.

* Britain and NATO have decided to not get involved in any direct action. We should not take lightly their reluctance to follow through with us on any direct course of action against Syria.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 08:51:56

There is more than a small probability that the chemical weapons were employed by the rebel side, or as a false flag measure.

True. We’ll see more evidence in the days ahead and Obama’s going to Congress has given more time to do so. Evidence of who is responsible should be easier to come by than it was to prove the negative that “Iraq had no WMD’s”.

But the main point was “why no protesters now?”

The reason we have a lack of protesters now is not due to the fact that there might be a “false flag”.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 08:55:18

Chemical Ali gassed thousands in Kurds in late 80’s.

Critical thinking? #FAIL!

You failed again:
The 80s are not the 2000’s in the context of Iraq’s ongoing sanctions and history of UN weapons inspectors leading up to the 2nd Iraq war.

Did you not know that?

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 09:07:19

you just won an argument with your self and any one who disagrees with your conclusion is just not being objective. Got it.

You miss point.

I made about 10 points involving critical thinking on the differences between protesters, then and now, whether or not my every point is agreed upon or not.

He asked me how would I know about critical thinking. I told him because I made about 10 points involving critical thinking on the differences between protesters, then and now.

Now some have not agreed to every aspect of every point I made, however the validity of those points of differences in total, DO point out the differences between protesters, then and now. One of my points being questioned does not negate the presence of critical thinking in my post of about 10 points.

My post illustrated critical thinking whether every fine point is agreed upon or not.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2013-09-03 09:07:45

Bush initiated the Iraq war, Obama wound it down.

Sure, Obama wound it down—precisely on the schedule for withdrawal that had been proposed by Bush. Hope and change.

 
Comment by tresho
2013-09-03 09:08:57

The 80s are not the 2000’s in the context of Iraq’s ongoing sanctions and history of UN weapons inspectors leading up to the 2nd Iraq war.

Did you not know that?

I know you’re full of BS.

 
Comment by Northeastener
2013-09-03 09:10:36

Many “anti-war” supporters are reluctant to do any protesting now that a Democrat is in office.

Meanwhile, that Democrat in the White House is trying his best to engage us in another conflict where the US is not in danger of being attacked. Same as Libya, same as Yemen, same as Somalia (again) and Mali.

Tell me again why Obama received the Nobel Peace Prize? Tell me again how he has been any different than Bush in foreign policy? That’s right, Bush asked for and received authorization from Congress to wage war in Afghanistan. It’s only after threats of impeachment and a reluctance of his allies in Britain and NATO to engage Syria directly that Obama has moved to ask Congress. I guess Libya wasn’t “hostile” enough for that.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 09:11:07

an argument with your self and any one who disagrees with your conclusion is just not being objective.
Rio, in a nutshell.

A typical “argument” against Rio in a nutshell.

You have nothing there tresho. Don’t worry tresho, most don’t either.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 09:15:03

I know you’re full of BS.

Fail. What is full of BS about the statement?

The 80s are not the 2000’s in the context of Iraq’s ongoing sanctions and history of UN weapons inspectors leading up to the 2nd Iraq war.

Come on tresho. Come up with something at least high-school level.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 09:20:35

“What difference does it make?”

Exactly. The main point of my post was why there are not as many anti-war protesters now.

The “false-flag” possibility is NOT a main reason why there are less protesters now.

Try to keep up Tresho.

 
Comment by tresho
2013-09-03 09:22:39

What is full of BS about the statement?
I’m not taking an issue with that statement. Your entire approach is selective and defective. But I’ve stated that before with reference to you.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 09:25:50

Sure, Obama wound it down—precisely on the schedule for withdrawal that had been proposed by Bush.

How does Obama winding down the wars on Bush’s schedule negate the fact that winding down wars lead to less anti-war protests? (In spite of which party is in office)

The main point of the thread was the differences between anti-war protesters, then and now and why.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 09:30:47

Sure, Obama wound it down—precisely on the schedule for withdrawal that had been proposed by Bush

And that schedule for withdrawal was being harshly criticized at that time by many in the GOP as ‘turning and running’. So people saw that Obama wanted to get us out, while many in the GOP were calling for the opposite. Also, early on in his presidency, many may have thought he would get us out of the wars a lot faster.

I’m sure partisanship played a role too, but I don’t think it explains it all.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 09:31:35

Same as Libya, same as Yemen, same as Somalia (again) and Mali.

That illustrates another critical thinking point on the differences between protesters then and now.

How many American troops died in those countries compared to Iraq and Afghanistan?

Many “anti-war” supporters are reluctant to do any protesting now that a Democrat is in office.

Maybe because the “wars” that Democrat starts kills almost no American troops?

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2013-09-03 09:32:07

‘Obama winding down the wars’

Obama fought (and bribed) to stay in Iraq. He had to leave because he couldn’t get immunity for the troops. Last I heard the US military is still in Afghanistan.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2013-09-03 09:34:12

‘the “wars” that Democrat starts kills almost no American troops’

And the Boston bombers didn’t suffer a scratch at the marathon.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 09:36:14

Your entire approach is selective and defective

No. My post illustrated some reasons why there are less anti-war protester now. It was so effective that you can’t counter, with facts, the content and conclusion.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 09:38:53

….didn’t suffer a scratch at the marathon.

You left out my question mark.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 09:43:15

Obama fought (and bribed) to stay in Iraq. He had to leave because he couldn’t get immunity for the troops

Fought and bribed to keep a small contingent of troops there. He still wanted a general withdrawal of the vast majority of the troops.

But I agree, for many, clearly, Obama didn’t go far enough fast enough. But for many he apparently did. He got re-elected.

 
Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 11:24:25

Adding to NE’s observations above:

There are lots of pretexts for “intervention” in Syria but they obfuscate the reality. Please ask yourself why we would be pushing so hard to get rid of a Westernized secularist (Assad got his MD from London School of Medicine) More to the point, WHO WILL REPLACE HIM? Hint: Russia

The truth is, Syria is allied with Iran as the US is allied with Canada, and the US has a decades-long vendetta against Iran (see below). We’ve tried everything else, (OH NO, Ahmadinajad! OH NO! Nuclear weapons! OH NO! Oil bourse! Oh NO! Holocaust deniers!) might as well play the CW card and see if that sticks. The obvious reason is that Assad is thwarting the intentions of Big Oil, and we all know where THAT leads.

And if that isn’t enough on the face, here are a few things to consider:

-The common perception among the Oiligarchy that In order to re-secure the Mosul-Haifa oil pipeline through Iraq and Syria, there must be regime change in both countries. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/ED04Ak01.html

- Assad’s annoying insistence upon making alliances with Latin American countries to goose the oil flow to his country’s refineries.

(The Center for Strategic and International Studies reported in 2010 “In his recent visit to [Venezuela], Al-Assad signed an agreement for a $100 million trade and development fund with Chávez, established an $11 million fund to finance joint projects, and made plans to jointly invest in a $4.7 billion oil refinery in Syria. In Cuba, the Syrian president signed an understanding memorandum on agriculture to foster cooperation and establish “a common framework for the mutual development of beneficial agricultural actions,” In subsequent months, Assad visited Argentina and Brazil seeking similar trade agreements, resulting in billion dollar concessions.)

Key takeaway: All of the resulting shipments will be traded on the Iranian bourse in un-petrodollars.

And of course:
-Syria has allowed Russian missile defenses into the country as a counter to the planned US missile presence in Poland and is a major buyer of Russian armaments
-China has become Syria’s number one supplier with project contracts in the billions

Which leads to takeover of a thriving new market in war toys and personnel contracts for the Military Industrial Complex when Assad is deposed.

And finally, this little tidbit:

Genie Energy (NYSE: GNE, GNEPRA), said today that the government of Israel has awarded its subsidiary, Genie Israel Oil and Gas, Ltd., an exclusive petroleum exploration license covering 396.5 square kilometers in the (ahansen note: illegally occupied) Southern portion of the Golan Heights, (ahansen note: in Syria)

ON THE BOARD ARE: Dick Cheney, Rupert Murdoch, and Lord Jacob Rothschild. See: ‘Israel has granted oil exploration rights inside Syria, in the occupied Golan Heights‘ by Craig Murray, Global Research, 21 February 2013

 
Comment by Pete
2013-09-03 11:58:23

Perhaps there are fewer protesters because there won’t be “boots on the ground”. Different kind of war. Only guessing here, but if we were going into Syria with a “Shock and Awe” type thing, you’d probably be seeing alot more protesters.

 
Comment by oxide
2013-09-03 12:08:19

Whichever sides people are taking on this issue… I would like to thank Ben, Rio, Northeasterner, Alena, and everyone else in this thread for bringing up issues and history that bear upon the situation. I don’t think I’ve ever seen so much critical thinking in one thread. Sounds so much better than “libtards are hypocrites,” as if all libtards think alike, which they most assuredly they do not. Thanks, all. :cool:

Alena, do you think that the oil interests have Obama’s ear? I’m skeptical.

I suspect that most of this is going to come down to exactly which military intervention Obama is planning. Hopefully it’s not just arming-the-rebels.

 
Comment by michael
2013-09-03 12:11:39

and the prize goes to….Ahansen!!! come on down!!!!

the petrodollar hegemony will go down kicking and screaming!

Pax Americana is imploding…it’s spehre of influence is dwindling and falling apart…much like the old USSR.

 
Comment by michael
2013-09-03 12:27:52

actually pelosi just old me we are risking WW3 for the children…my bad.

i really do need to do more critical thinking.

 
Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 12:37:09

Do I think that the oil interests have Obama’s ear?

Um, yeah? He’s not the poodle Bush was by any means, but the US economy– hence its foreign policy– is intrinsically tied to its energy needs. The infrastructure is built around it. Millions of jobs depend upon it. Generations of politicians reward the benevolence of its entrenched aristocracy. More to the point, 90% of voters are beholden to its exigencies (Try raising the price of gasoline by three dollars a gallon to compensate for the cost of our wars and see what happens.)

It’s like asking if Obama could come out as an atheist and not get lynched. Change comes slowly, but technology has a way of accelerating its march. I retain Hope.

 
Comment by michael
2013-09-03 12:59:04

i will see your Hope and raise you one critically thoughtless snide remark.

 
Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 13:13:19

;-)

 
Comment by polly
2013-09-03 17:03:20

Please note that this comment is not at all about the wisdom of bombing Syria or not. I don’t have enough of my own information to know exactly where I come down on that one.

But, asking Congress to vote on it? It is the most genius political move the president has ever made. By far. Rumor is that this is directly from him - that the option was not even on the radar of his advisors.

Why? Well, once Congress comes back to DC the next few weeks were going to be 100% about the budget and the debt ceiling. 100%. None of that talk is good for the president. His base wants the social spending that was cut in the sequester restored and tax increases on the wealthy. Some of the republicans want more tax cuts and restoring military spending that was cut by the sequester and defunding Obamacare. Tea party flavor republicans want lots more tax cuts and defunding Obamacare and defunding a lot of other things too. There is little common ground. Nothing for “leadership” to do since you can only lead people who are willing. Talking about it for weeks gets you nowhere - this stuff is always settled at the last second if it gets settled at all. There are similar arguments when we hit the debt limit about two weeks after the end of the fiscal year.

So, what is this vote? It is distracting a toddler with his favorite toy. Toddler is Congress. Toy is top secret security briefings and foreign policy stuff- Congress LOVES top secret security briefings and foreign policy stuff. It makes them feel very important. And they are being distracted from screaming about getting what they want for dinner - they want ice cream (exactly the budget result they want) and they are getting chicken with broccoli (some sort of compromise).

Anyway, pure genius as a political move. At least we won’t have to listen to as many days of posturing on the budget. It will all be concentrated in the last week or so when all the actual decisions get made anyway.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 17:14:35

pure genius as a political move.

It also lumps everyone who votes for it in with him. Makes it a lot harder for them to criticize the results.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 17:30:57

It is the most genius political move the president has ever made.

And.
Makes it a lot harder for them to criticize the results.

Double bingo

 
 
 
 
Comment by Jeff from upstate SC
2013-09-03 06:09:49

They really did hate President Bush with a Passion .The “Press ” enjoyed taking pictures of him in odd poses ,then publishing them with relish. The old media has been by-passed by the many on-line options,including here.

Comment by oxide
2013-09-03 06:21:08

Choosing an unflattering screencap to accompany an unflattering article is not limited to old media, or to Bush, or to politicians. Every form of media does it to almost any celebrity. It was amazing how quickly they uglified Paula Deen.

 
Comment by the golden boy
2013-09-03 06:53:28

Bush deserved it. Obama deservers it as well but where’s the unflattering news about Obmana in old news media. They still suck up to him for no reason.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 08:27:08

where’s the unflattering news about Obmana in old news media

Are you joking? Try FOX, the #1 cable news network. Or try MSNBC when Obama frequently abandons the liberals.

Want an even older news media bashing Obama? Try AM radio.

Want an older news media than radio with unflattering Obama coverage? Try any newspaper owned by NewsCorp. How about the WSJ for one?

Want an even older “media”? Try listening to some sermons by some right-wing fundie preachers.

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Comment by the golden boy
2013-09-03 08:52:12

Jessus you freaking useful idiot!

All you came up with is right wing media. That’s not the point is it?

 
Comment by the golden boy
2013-09-03 08:53:20

Every word from Rio, Alpo, etc. prove the point Micheal made earlier.

ueful idiots whose minds have been corrupted to make them think they are critical thinkers.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 09:01:59

Every word from Rio, Alpo, etc. prove the point Micheal made earlier.

I’ve yet to hear anything of worth from you. Maybe you’re working up to it?

 
Comment by the golden boy
2013-09-03 09:50:21

I’ve yet to hear anything of worth from you. Maybe you’re working up to it?

Of course not sicne I don’t obfuscate.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 09:54:20

All you came up with is right wing media. That’s not the point is it?

Are you 12? Try to follow along what just hapened.

You:
“where’s the unflattering news about Obmana in old news media.

Me:
I pointed where in the old media Obama is bashed:
FOX tv, MSNBC, AM radio, newspapers and “Christan” sources. This is a huge swath of old media with “unflattering news about (Obama). Is it not?

All you came up with is right wing media.

How does your assertion that “all I came up with is right wing media” negate the fact that what I came up with represents a HUGE swath of old media that, in fact, bashes Obama. How? It does not. I simply disproved your point that Obama was not bashed in “old media”.

I also wrote Obama is frequently bashed by the “liberal” media such as MSNBC when he is not liberal enough.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 09:56:50

…sicne I don’t obfuscate

One of the funniest things I’ve seen in awhile! Bravo! :)

 
Comment by oxide
2013-09-03 18:07:44

Oh, I see. Except for all that anti-Obama media, show me all the REAL anti-Obama media.

I guess you still want to the see the REAL birth certificate too.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 12:40:47

Take a look at the front page of the Drudge Report someday, mikey. It’s been like that since 2007.

This is one argument you’ll just have to concede.

 
 
Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 06:34:18

Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb (insert country name here):

“After spending much of the past four years decrying President Obama’s alleged overreach in circumventing Congress, neoconservatives are furious with the president for … deciding to consult Congress before attacking Syria.

But the hypocrisy of some neocons was entirely predictable. In fact, David Corn predicted it Saturday, when Obama first announced his decision to go to Congress. “Some folks — particularly hawks and neocons yearning for a strike — will, no doubt, blast the president for wimping out on executive privilege,” he wrote. It turns out it took less than 24 hours for that prediction to prove true.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/09/02/neocons-outraged-that-obama-wants-democratic-approval-for-war/

Comment by Ben Jones
2013-09-03 07:47:01

It’s pretty rich that the neocon infested washington post says this:

‘To remind Sen. John McCain of the basics of the Constitution: Congress and the president are co-equal. That’s true in general, and it’s true of “national security matters” in particular. The president is commander-in-chief, but Congress not only has the power to declare war, but also the responsibility for funding the armed forces, the diplomats and, well, everything else in the government.’

So what about Libya? Or the 2 or 3 thousand drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen? Oh, and recording everyone’s phone calls and emails. The federal government is so criminal they make the mafia look like a softball team.

Here’s a puzzler; the US sends money and arms to Al Quada in a civil war. Then, claims a “war crime” in said civil war. Hello? There wouldn’t even be a civil war going on if it wasn’t for the US government. And Obama is the biggest war criminal in the world. Is it OK if the Mexican president decides to “strike” something in the US because Obama is a war criminal? Or does he need congressional approval?

It’s all so #@*&^$ up it’s difficult to even care any more.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 08:37:05

and recording everyone’s phone calls and emails.

Thanks Obama (and the decades long bi-partisan American march towards a paranoid police state) We just lost a lot of Brazilian good-will towards America. I feel it a little already.

US-Brazil tensions rise after new NSA spy report

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/09/02/3601395/us-brazil-tensions-rise-after.html

RIO DE JANEIRO — The Brazilian government condemned a U.S. spy program that reportedly targeted the nation’s leader, labeled it an “unacceptable invasion” of sovereignty and called Monday for international regulations to protect citizens and governments alike from cyber espionage.

In a sign that fallout over the spy program is spreading, the newspaper Folha de S.Paulo reported that President Dilma Rousseff is considering canceling her October trip to the U.S., where she has been scheduled to be honored with a state dinner. Folha cited unidentified Rousseff aides. The president’s office declined to comment.

….”I feel a mixture of amazement and indignation. It seems like there are no limits. When the phone of the president of the republic is monitored, it’s hard to imagine what else might be happening,” Ferraco told reporters in Brasilia. “It’s unacceptable that in a country like ours, where there is absolutely no climate of terrorism, that there is this type of spying.”

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Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 09:06:05

Remember, they hate us for our freedom!

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2013-09-03 09:15:50

When the phone of the president of the republic is monitored, it’s hard to imagine what else might be happening,” Ferraco told reporters in Brasilia.

That’s funny—I would tend to assume that every head of state knows that their phones are likely being tapped. There is too much useful information to be learned for that not to be the case; the only question is “tapped by whom?”

It’s the every-day man that should have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their personal communications, not heads of state.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 10:00:31

I would tend to assume that every head of state knows that their phones are likely being tapped

You just stole my line I’m gonna use down here.

 
 
Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 12:27:23

I believe the rationale is “National Security”, which may actually be true in this instance (though I have my doubts– see above), but what is called for here is what we should have done in the wake of 911, name a UN-backed international police action to apprehend the perpetrator(s) followed by trial in the World Court in den Hague. (And I would argue that UK is culpable for having provided the Sarin precursors to Syria in the first place.)

Our old military and geo-politic constructs (nation vs nation) are hopelessly outdated due to instantaneous communications, multi-national corporate and global trade and financial interests, and the general dispersion of the world’s cultures into once-hegemonic societies. The only way to manage national miscreants without global consequence is through revamped and seriously amped United Nations oversight. (At least if we’re to be fair about killing everyone’s innocent civilians.)

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 14:16:19

a UN-backed international police action to apprehend the perpetrator(s)

How could we do this short of an invasion? It’s not like Assad and his top generals are living in a little one-man bunker in the ‘burbs like Osama was.

Plus, Russia and China will veto any action against Syria by the UN.

 
Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 17:14:50

That part about revamped and amped is relevant here. All nations will have to sign on in good faith and adhere to its precepts under an international charter with some serious teeth in it for the non-compliant. The political ramifications, however, can be countered by making the body a truly democratic assembly –not one controlled solely by its money and military interests.

As a practical matter, no one can hide out forever, especially not in an era of instant communication and micro-drone surveillance. International justice and extraction squads could be the next big career opportunity….

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 17:28:55

. All nations will have to sign on in good faith and adhere to its precepts under an international charter with some serious teeth in it for the non-compliant.

That sounds like a tough one to accomplish.

countered by making the body a truly democratic assembly –not one controlled solely by its money and military interests.

I’ve thought about that, but how would it work? Would each country be given an amount of votes equal to its population?

micro-drone surveillance. International justice and extraction squads

I’m sure they’ve thought of all those things too. They’re probably living on large military bases. It would be very hard to swoop in and grab them there.

 
 
Comment by United States of Moral Hazard
2013-09-03 16:02:00

“It’s all so #@*&^$ up it’s difficult to even care any more.”

You’re right. I am just trying to do my own little thing in my own little corner of the world. I have zero faith in either party, or our political system in general. When people bring up politics I tell them I don’t want to talk about it anymore, that both parties are equally rotten to the core.

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Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 08:18:50

They were never anti-war, only anti-Bush

FWIW, most of the liberals I know are against any intervention in Syria.

Comment by goon squad
 
Comment by the golden boy
2013-09-03 10:04:11

Yup I see them marching on streets everyday.

 
 
Comment by hackrenter
2013-09-03 10:23:00

There hasn’t been much of an anti-war movement since Vietnam, and I’m sure the lack of a draft is the main reason.

There were some fairly large marches against the two Iraq wars but the protesters’ concerns were basically ignored or trivialized by elected officials and the media (local TV almost exclusively focused on the traffic commute in 2003).

I know some who strongly oppose a strike against Syria but feel it’s kind of pointless to take to the streets. In general, however, the silent majority just doesn’t care about what happens outside their neighborhood or town, let alone Syria.

Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 12:42:34

+1.

The only way most people will get off their arse is when it’s on the line.

 
 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 19:19:46

Boehner on Syria: I support the President
House Speaker John Boehner makes clear that he supports President Obama when it comes to Syria.

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2013-09-03 05:41:26

Lenin had a term.

Useful idiots.

It will be same on “immigration reform” for the unions.

—————————-

Labor union frustration boils over with president on ObamaCare
The Hill | 9/02/13 | Kevin Bogardus

Unions are frustrated the Obama administration hasn’t responded to their calls for changes to ObamaCare.

They say they don’t understand why their concerns so far have fallen of deaf ears.

Most unions backed ObamaCare’s passage, but labor argues provisions in the law could cut employee hours, unfairly tax their plans and force workers off their union health plans into the law’s potentially more costly insurance exchanges.

The key issue are union members who are among the roughly 20 million people who use non-profit multi-employer “Taft-Hartley” health plans.

Unions want the administration to change ObamaCare so that those plans are treated as qualified health plans that can earn tax subsidies. Under the administration’s interpretation of the law, the multi-employer plans are not eligible for the subsidies.

Without those subsidies, employers may have the incentive to drop the plans and force workers onto the insurance exchanges.

“The Democrats have completely given the store away to the for-profit industry,” Taylor said. “Without any question, we have a scenario set up that ObamaCare has turned all the money over to the for-profit plans and the non-profit plans will fade away.”

Unions also argue that the law creates an incentive for employers to cut back on work hours for employees. Under ObamaCare, companies have to provide healthcare coverage to workers who work 30 hours or more a week — which could lead some employers to cut back on employee hours to avoid the requirement.

Unite Here was the first national union to endorse Obama in the 2008 Democratic primary, but Taylor warned their could be a backlash if the administration doesn’t meet their concerns.

If they lose their health coverage, his members “will blame the people who passed that bill and did nothing to fix it,” he said.

“The administration has found resolutions for a whole variety of issues and the fact that their biggest supporters will be put at the mercy of the for-profit insurance industry will leave a very bad, bad taste,” Taylor said. “You can’t blame the Republicans on this one. This is a Democratic bill through and through.”

Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 06:16:56

Let me remind you again (because you keep forgetting):

Obamacare is corporate welfare for insurance companies.

Obamacare is not single-payer, nationalized health care.

Nationalized healthcare = better results at half the cost.

Comment by 2banana
2013-09-03 06:35:35

Let me remind you again (because you keep forgetting):

Obamacare passed the House on March 21st, 2010 with 219 democrat votes and ZERO republican votes

Obamacare passed the Senate on December 24, 2009 with 60 democrat (and independents who caucused democrat) votes and ZERO republican votes

Obamacare was signed into law by President obama on March 23, 2010.

So - who OWNS obamacare?

Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 07:39:24

Who owns it? The corporatist Democrat party that I didn’t vote for. I still lived in Dennis Kucinich’s district in 2008 and voted for him with the delusional belief that the Democrat party would enact a single-payer, nationalized healthcare system after Bathhouse Barry the Chicago Jesus got coronated.

Paul Ryan should run at the top of the GOP ticket with replacing Medicare with vouchers as the keystone of his platform, let’s see how that works out for the Republicans’ future.

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 08:45:32

The Democrats have completely given the store away to the for-profit industry,”

Because Obama and the Democrats are quasi free-market corporatist capitalists who care a little about the un-insured.

Obamacare passed the House on March 21st, 2010 with 219 democrat votes and ZERO republican votes

Because the Republican are not first and foremost free-market capitalists caring about most Americans. The Republicans are crony-capitalists secondary to their being whacked-out political dogmatists.

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Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 12:46:33

But Obamacare snuck in the Judas Goat of interstate insurance exchanges. Stealth free market competition for premium dollars will have the eventual effect of squashing the insurance industry’s monopoly as surely as the break up and deregulation of ATT, the airlines, ISPs, etc.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 13:01:39

Stealth free market competition for premium dollars will have the eventual effect of squashing the insurance industry’s monopoly

How? (I hope you’re right)

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Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 14:27:36

When Californians who now purchase the lowest basic-level policy for $300 a month can buy the same coverage from a North Dakota entity for $95 via the exchange, the CA. company will have to lower its rates if it want to stay in business.

When ATT controlled the switching, it used to cost Californians $10 a minute to call New York by telephone….

 
Comment by oxide
2013-09-03 18:14:51

I’m sorry, Alena, could you repeat what you just said? Someone in CA can buy insurance on the ND exchange? Someone in TX can buy insurance in the FL exchange if they feel like it? So is the ND company going to broadcast TV ads and send out mass mailings in CA advertising the same insurance for less $$ to lure customers away? Where is this in the PPACA bill?

I don’t disbelieve you, but this is HUGE. I’ve heard a lot of politicians say that all our problems would be solved if only they could “sell insurance across state lines.” (along with tort reform) And now, the law says exactly that?

 
Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 19:45:30

Currently most people can only purchase health insurance from a company chartered in one’s own state. The exchanges (set to go into effect in October) will make it possible for more to buy an approved health insurance policy from any company chartered in the USA. For obvious reasons, they’re not being widely publicized as yet.

Here’s more info:

“…The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) has several provisions that give small businesses more options to pool risks and buy coverage across state lines, with the goal of increasing competition. The PPACA mandated creation of “Affordable Insurance Exchanges.” These exchanges must be ready to enroll consumers by October 1, 2013 and fully operational by January 1, 2014….

Section 1334 of the PPACA requires health benefit exchanges to offer two multi-state plans, one a nonprofit. These plans would be established under federal charter through the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) and licensed in all states.

Section 1333 will allow health insurers to sell across state lines via “health care choice compacts” starting in January 2016. “Two or more states would agree to allow health plans to be sold in each state, but subject to regulation only by the state in which the plan was written or issued. Plans sold outside their state of domicile would still be subject to licensure and rules in the state in which the purchaser resides…” The PPACA requires HHS to issue regulations governing health care choice compacts by July 1, 2013.

“Finally, the PPACA allows the exchanges themselves to operate across state lines. Section 1311(f) provides for ‘Regional or Other Interstate Exchanges’ operating in more than one state if the involved states and the federal HHS approve.” (Source: “Health Insurance Crisis” blog, Frederick L. Pilot, author and consultant. Reprinted with permission. http://healthinsurancecrisis.net)….”

http://www.roemer-insurance.com/news-events/january13.html

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 20:15:32

requires health benefit exchanges to offer two multi-state plans, one a nonprofit.

Wow. Thanks. It could be an opening.

 
Comment by oxide
2013-09-03 20:22:58

DAYUM. Thank you! Can’t wait to see how this one plays out.

Maybe Pelosi was right… they had to pass it to see what was in it. [which I always thought was a stupid attack on Pelosi. Opponents said that they weren't allowed to see what was in it, while at the same time waving around those 1200-page HARD COPIES of the bill. ]

 
 
 
 
Comment by P.T Barnum
2013-09-03 06:32:09

“Lenin had a term.”

“Useful idiots.”

I like it. Fits well with my one-sucker-born-every-minute observation.

One difference: The birth rate of useful idiots is a bit higher.

Comment by P.T Barnum
2013-09-03 06:51:35

The most useful idiots of all are the ones who do not have a clue that they are idiots.

Informed idiots would be a good term for them - informed with selected information given to them by those who want to make them useful.

 
Comment by michael
2013-09-03 06:56:37

ueful idiots whose minds have been corrupted to make them think they are critical thinkers.

Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 12:51:05

Your arguments lack depth, michael. You may be a critical thinker but it doesn’t often translate to the page. If you’re going to be snide, please have the courtesy to show your work?

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Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 10:49:27

ObamaCare:

Let’s get the doctors, drug manufacturers and insurance companies into a room, then let them draft a bill that will ensure their incomes go up by getting more people insured.

Unfortunately, the government is not about doing the right thing for the masses. It is about increasing the profits of the special interests that gave you big campaign contributions.

Comment by 2banana
2013-09-03 11:17:30

Only bigger and bigger government with more and more regulations can save us.

Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 11:41:23

First we have to identify the problem that we’re trying to save us from.

The problem in the 1950-60s was that there was too much economic equality. Those tax rates were making it hard for a few people to accumulate all the wealth.

We sure saved ourselves from that.

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Comment by (Neo-) Jetfixr
2013-09-03 11:42:57

Yeah, like less regulation has been so all-fired wonderful…..

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Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 12:53:23

Darrell,

Please tell us how Obamacare is going to increase fees for physicians? I know quite a few who will be fascinated to hear your thoughts on this matter….

Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 14:21:40

The idea was that with more people insured, they’d be going to see a doctor more often.

The fee per visit won’t go up, so a doctor that already had a full schedule will not be helped.

A doctor that used to have some open slots go unfilled my find those slots filled as more people have insurance.

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Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 19:50:42

Have you tried to get a new-patient appointment with an internist lately? Those “open slots” are few and far between….

In fact, about the only MD’s actively soliciting new patients these days are the ones performing procedures insurers don’t routinely cover; plastic surgeons, bariatric weight loss, lasix, psychiatric inpatient/addiction centers, etc.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 06:03:24

wall street journal - long-term jobless left out of the recovery:

‘more than four years after the recession officially ended, 11.5 million americans are unemployed, many of them for years. millions more have abandoned their job searches, hiding from the economic storm in school or turning to government programs for support. a growing body of economic research suggests that the longer they remain on the sidelines, the less likely they will be to work again; for many, it may already be too late.’

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324202304579050602711370332.html

Comment by azdude02
2013-09-03 06:12:34

“Nearly 70 percent of the jobs gained since the recession ended have been in low-paying industries such as fast-food or retail. That’s even though half of the jobs lost during the Great Recession were in industries that pay between $38,000 and $68,000 a year.”

A recent chart I saw says there are about 130 million americans without a job.

 
Comment by 2banana
2013-09-03 06:37:25

Don’t worry.

Bigger and bigger government, more and more regulation and higher and higher taxes can only help them…

Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 06:42:46

Post some more Drudge Report links, HBB readers aren’t convinced yet.

 
Comment by Darrell In Phoenix
2013-09-03 06:43:04

Since lower taxes on the rich, higher taxes on the poor, and less regulation for the FIRE industry is what brought us to this point….

30 years of Republican economic policy has brought us to this point.

Comment by Rental Watch
2013-09-03 09:01:36

You can’t lay it all on the Republican side of the aisle. If I remember correctly, Clinton and Summers had quite a large hand in repealing Glass Steagall–it happened on their watch. And the Democrats, being champions of the little guy, were significant supporters of getting $ into the hands of the poor/lower middle class so they could buy a house.

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 10:07:16

You can’t lay it all on the Republican side of the aisle.

You can only lay it all on the Republican, perverted economic ideology and dogma. (And their pushing it down our throats and polluting our minds with it for 30 years)

 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 10:42:18

Republicans and Democrats share blame, for sure, but I’d not call it 50-50. Maybe 75% Republican ideology leading the charge and 25% Democrats being bribed to go along.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 10:55:29

I can agree about 85% with those numbers.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2013-09-03 11:33:18

It’s a problem on partial ideology being followed. Like partially deregulating a market.

What good are free financial markets (Republican push) if people are being so protected, either explicitly or implicitly, that they cease to be vigilant (Democratic “protectionism”)?

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 11:41:26

What good are free financial markets (Republican push)

No.

Republicans never pushed for free-markets in finance. Republicans pushed for crony-capitalistic monopolization of he financial markets. (Tearing down the “Chinese wall” between commercial and investment banking for example) This is why the TBTF banks are even bigger than before the Repub deregulation.

protected, either explicitly or implicitly, that they cease to be vigilant (Democratic “protectionism”)

No again. When we had the “Democratic protectionism” of higher import duties and protectionism, Americans were much more vigilant because they had jobs which enabled their vigilance.

 
Comment by oxide
2013-09-03 12:19:32

Clinton’s mistake was being lulled by the economic boom caused by rise in productivity from computers and the jobs that Internet created (not to be confused with the dot-com stocks).

The best time to suggest removing the safety net is when no one has needed it for a while.

 
Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 12:56:24

Let us not forget who appointed Geithner and Summers to head his administration’s economic advisory upon election….

 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 18:01:22

“who appointed Geithner and Summers”

Wuzzit Bush?

 
 
 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 10:04:06

more regulation and higher and higher taxes can only help them…

Yes.

More regulation in the form of fair trade and higher import duties could help bring back American jobs.

Higher taxes on the very rich could help if it were invested in education, health-care, research and infrastructure.

So you are correct.

Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 11:15:13

More regulation in the form of fair trade and higher import duties could help bring back American jobs.

It’s how China built its automobile industry. Actually, it was flat out protectionism. Same with Korea. You don’t see too many Toyotas on the streets of Seoul.

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Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 11:54:49

We don’t even need to actually collect the higher taxes on high incomes.

Give them lots and lots of deductions for spending money on things that employ people, like, you know, buying goods and services, that create jobs for the people producing the goods and services.

Stop the accumulation of money by those who already have more than they can spend.

We’re told that we need to lower the tax rates on the rich, but remove deductions from the middle class to maintain total revenue, because the rich will reinvest all that extra money creating jobs.

BS!!!

If they were actually going to spend the money creating jobs, they’d be calling for more deductions, not less.

What they actually want to do is accumulate more money, NOT spending it to create jobs for the useless, unwashed masses.

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Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 13:39:37

What they actually want to do is accumulate more money, NOT spending it to create jobs for the useless, unwashed masses.

Yup, that is the game plan.

 
 
 
 
Comment by the golden boy
2013-09-03 06:49:08

Just maybe…..it’s not a recovery?

Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 06:54:59

For the 0.1%, this recovery has been splendid.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2013-09-03 06:58:21

Of course it’s a recovery. Recovery is not when there are more jobs, not even when the economy improves. Recovery is when the government borrows enough money to stop the GDP number from falling further.

Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 07:28:50

With $1.5T a year leaking from active circulation via trade imbalances, SOMEONE has to borrow another $1.5T into existence every year.

Everyone complains when the government does it, but most seemed less concerned when it was the private sector doing all the borrowing and spending.

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Comment by Patrick
2013-09-03 08:33:59

Darrell

With that much leakage, and cumulatively, I just do not understand how they can print 10% of the GDP yearly and not seemingly affect the value of the dollar.

Even with foreign currencies seeking USD safety.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 09:11:45

With that much leakage, and cumulatively, I just do not understand how they can print 10% of the GDP yearly and not seemingly affect the value of the dollar.

Because we are the consumer of last resort. The day we stop buying stuff from the world’s sweatshops is the day the wheels fall off the the global bus.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2013-09-03 09:22:13

The day we stop buying stuff from the world’s sweatshops is the day the wheels fall off the the global bus.

I suspect that that day will never come, unless the currency first weakens sufficiently that the “stuff from the world’s sweatshops” has too high a price on it.

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Never underestimate the tendency of Americans to buy a bunch of pointless junk.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2013-09-03 12:33:44

“The day we stop buying stuff…”

It won’t take a complete stop. It only takes a slowdown to make the wheels fall off the permagrowth miracle bus.

 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2013-09-03 08:29:51

Recovery is when the government borrows enough money to stop the GDP number from falling further.

Wow, you make it sound so simple and obvious, Blue Skye.

Why didn’t the government just cause a recovery four or five years ago??

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Comment by Blue Skye
2013-09-03 09:58:40

The simple is rarely obvious, but it is easier (for me) to grasp. My point is that by some measures the economy stopped freefalling, but that is not a recovery, and that the huge sums borrowed to paper over the hole make the “recovery” even more of a hoax.

 
 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 10:16:29

Recovery is when the government borrows enough money to stop the GDP number from falling further.

Let’s be accurate. The GDP has been rising. Borrowing has helped the GDP to rise however this rise in GDP has benefited mostly the very rich. This is “recovery” to the government.

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Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 11:43:42

LOLZ.

Brazil GDP is an anemic 1.9% and 3.3% the last two quarters.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 13:08:08

Brazil GDP is an anemic 1.9% and 3.3% the last two quarters.

And your momma wears combat boots!

(which has as much pertinence to your comment as your comment had to do with mine on the USA GDP)

Me:
The USA GDP……

You:
Yea but the Brazilian GDP….

BTW. I’m not Brazilian and what you “think” about Brazil because I squash your non-points on housing is amusing.

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 16:21:16

And if you were around everyday, I’d school you everyday.

Want more?

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 17:34:31

Want more?

I always want more from you. Even if it’s the same bs crap. You make me and others shine.

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 17:43:27

I polish turds like you all day long. Shine on.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 18:40:12

I polish turds like you all day long

I don’t doubt it lately. But enough about your private life.

Many are already worried enough about your public/blog mental health disintegration.

You used to shine.

Exter? Was that once you?

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 19:30:50

And you’re one of my shining examples here. My how you glow.

 
Comment by mikeinbend
2013-09-03 21:11:49

He who polishes turds all day gets stinky finger.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 06:12:55

Take America Back (Restore Our Future?)

“The 2009 Recovery Act gave additional funding to the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, more commonly called food stamps. On November 1, that funding will expire, barring congressional action that observers say is unlikely.

Last year SNAP cost the government $78.4 billion, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, which administers the program. The program’s cost has more than doubled since 2007 and has nearly tripled since 2004, when about half as many Americans received assistance, according to the USDA.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/cfo/2013/08/30/food-stamp-cuts-could-bite-food-makers/

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-09-03 10:19:51

The average monthly benefit for participants has increased about 50% since 2004, while the price of food has closer to doubled. The program may be more expensive for us to fund, but the people in the program are helped less.

Comment by Hi-Z
2013-09-03 11:27:02

“The average monthly benefit for participants has increased about 50% since 2004, while the price of food has closer to doubled.”

From what I can determine from data avilable on Internet, food price increases over last decade are in the 40-50% increase area.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-09-03 12:44:10

At the commodity level it is around 80%. Maybe it is less at retail partly because of the obnoxious repackaging tricks.

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Comment by Dale
2013-09-03 13:08:26

Does anyone know if there is data available on what “type” of food is purchased with food stamps?

I have always been curious just how much abuse there is and what % is spent on sugar/flour/milk etc. as compared to cheetos/lobster etc.

It should not be that hard to keep track and create a database. Maybe get the NSA involved.

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Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 11:59:49

If we slash food stamp program spending, what happens?

The poor spend less on food, hurting the profits of grocery stores, the stocks of those companies goes down, and the rich get hurt.

The poor spend money on food that would have been spent on other things. The profits of the companies that provide “the other things” goes down, and their stocks fall, hurting the rich.

Based on current tax policy, the money is gong to end up in the hands of the rich, so who gets hurt the most if we stop creating that money?

Wouldn’t it be better to just keep the current money in circulation rather than having to constantly borrow vast sums of new money into existence?

 
Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 12:59:52

Take America Back - Restore Our Future

^^^^

Beyond poetry into the realm of the sublime, goonie. You get a gold star for the week, nay the decade. Bravo!

Comment by elvismcduf
2013-09-03 20:19:02

viva la revoluction mommababy

 
 
 
Comment by Joe Smith
2013-09-03 06:38:09

Programmers/software guys are the autoworkers of our generation.

Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 07:27:57

Doubtful.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 07:30:52

B-bu-but. STEM! They’re STEM jobs! The, um, hardest to outsource…because…uh…

Uh-oh.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2013-09-03 09:24:12

The, um, hardest to outsource…because…uh…

They’re hard to outsource because not just anyone can do it, and many of those who can “sort of, kind of” do it can’t really do it well.

We now know for certain that alpha doesn’t work in software. :-)

Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 09:38:03

We now know for certain that alpha doesn’t work in software. :-)

Yes, I clearly don’t share your delusions that only we Americans can do tech/software well.

I remember when people said the Japanese couldn’t build a good car.

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Comment by Carl Morris
2013-09-03 10:40:30

The Japanese make really good storage equipment. The kind of well engineered stuff everyone would like to own if they could buy it for a reasonable price before it’s obsolete. But from what I’ve seen the market moves too fast to make stuff “right” at a competitive cost. And the Japanese don’t seem to be able to get over that hump and half-ass stuff fast the way we can :-).

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 10:46:06

And the Japanese don’t seem to be able to get over that hump and half-ass stuff fast the way we can :-).

Perhaps the Chinese will master that art.

 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 12:12:14

“And the Japanese don’t seem to be able to get over that hump and half-ass stuff fast the way we can :-).”

Agile software development baby!!!

In the old days, we’d do requirements, design and then code. But that takes too much time, and odds are, someone else had already rushed a product to market and sold to all your potential customers.

So, we switched to “rapid prototyping”. Code up something, pretend it was just a demo to help you figure out the requirements, then fix it.

Now we don’t even pretend that we throw the prototype away. Come up with some loose idea of what it should do. Code it. Show it off. Make a few tweaks and ship it. We call it Agile.

* Agile was originally sold as something else. Instead of doing EVERY requirement before we did any design, then ALL design before we coded anything, we would do “just in time” requirements, then “just in time” design.

Break the job into pieces. Do requirements for one piece, then design for that piece, then code that piece. Repeat for each piece.

JIT requirements and design QUICKLY became, “slap it together and ship it”. The product managers, that are supposed to be doing requirements and design can no focus on things like market analysis and schmoozing the current customer base to try to pimp more sales.

 
Comment by shendi
2013-09-03 18:50:13

I heard about AGILE from Indian companies way back in 2009!

 
 
 
 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 07:45:16

There is a slight difference.

Autoworkers didn’t need a particularly high IQ. Computer programming is actually hard, and you can’t just grab anyone off the street and teach them how to do it. It is not like teaching someone to turn a wrench.

And, yes, there are 7 times as many people in India and China as the USA, so 7 times as many high IQ people. But, there is still a limit on the number of high IQ people.

Current efforts to off-shore computer jobs to India and China have already resulted in wages in those fields, in those countries having tripled over the last decade. A decade ago, a company could hire 7 programmers in India for the price of 1 in the USA. Now it is 2 to 1, and still falling.

I went to a very tiny college. When I started my BSCS program, the first year there were a couple hundred students. By graduation, there were about 25. The others had dropped out of Computer Science for something more accommodating to their IQ and aptitude.

 
Comment by oxide
2013-09-03 07:46:33

Software guys would kill to have it as well as the autoworkers did.

Comment by Joe Smith
2013-09-03 08:10:16

True, but inevitably the fates will be the same. Too many smart asians who are now learning english as a (basically) first language, more automation, more free flows of capital between US and developing markets. It’s all headed the same direction.

Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 08:41:13

Too many smart asians who are now learning english

I was chatting with a guy from Singapore. According to him they don’t teach “creativity” over there, that the focus is on rote memorization. In his own words, education in Singapore is a joke. When I told him how Americans see Asian techies as being ten feet tall, he burst out laughing.

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Comment by tresho
2013-09-03 08:54:29

When I told him how Americans see Asian techies as being ten feet tall, he burst out laughing.
Last week I switched options on my dirt-cheap Wouxun ham radio transceiver, which now gives its voice prompts in Mandarin Chinese. Even my mainline Chinese instructor was astounded.

 
Comment by Northeastener
2013-09-03 09:27:40

they don’t teach “creativity” over there, that the focus is on rote memorization.

Exactly. Can anyone tell us why tech innovation is still a mostly US phenomenon? Why aren’t there tech incubators all over China and India? Because there is no creativity over there, only parodies of what is developed in the US. Memorization has it’s uses, but so does creativity, and so far, the Far East has been lagging in that regard.

I was at a tech conference in San Jose a couple of weeks ago. We sat in on sessions discussing Cassandra, MongoDB, Hadoop and Map/Reduce, Twitter Storm, etc. All leading-edge NoSQL tech developed, for the most part, here in the US. These are the systems that allow Facebook, Twitter, and Google, generating terabytes of data a day, to function.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 11:04:30

Even my mainline Chinese instructor was astounded.

Was he astounded that you could do it without consulting a manual? I would think that changing a setting like that should be pretty simple.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2013-09-03 12:07:43

“Can anyone tell us why tech innovation is still a mostly US phenomenon?”

Willingness and ability for very bright and driven people to take risk with time, effort, and capital. These are luxuries of a rich country with substantial economic freedom, and a system that STILL rewards winners in an extraordinarily outsized way (creating billionaires).

People love to point to Bill Gates, Sergei Brin, Larry Page, Mark Zuckerberg, etc. as what is wrong with the US (huge wealth inequality). However, that is what’s RIGHT with the US. There are countless other tech entrepreneurs who have tried to create the next big thing and have failed. In fact, there are MANY times more failures than successes. There are long stretches of time where the entire Venture Capital industry LOSES capital, yet investments continue to be made with the hope of creating the next big thing, becoming a billionaire, etc.

Without the outsized returns for the few successes, fewer bright people try to start a company, fewer investors allocate money to venture capital, and less tech innovation occurs.

And it’s not a first world vs. third world thing either. ISTR reading that in Germany (I think), if you are at the helm of a company that fails, you are barred from being in a similar position for something like 18 months–that is a strong disincentive to take big risks with start-ups. In the US, such an event is considered valuable experience.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 12:21:09

People love to point to Bill Gates, Sergei Brin, Larry Page, Mark Zuckerberg, etc. as what is wrong with the US (huge wealth inequality). However, that is what’s RIGHT with the US.

None of them would have done anything different if they had thought their current net-worth would be half of what it is today. No……Bill Gate’s “risks” would have been the same whether he ended up being worth 35 billion instead of 70 billion today.

a system that STILL rewards winners in an extraordinarily outsized way

“Still rewards” Where do you get “still”? As if it’s waning? Our “outsized way” of rewarding has exploded. American wealth and income inequality is off the charts in the USA -the greatest difference in wealth inequality in almost 100 years. But has it helped most people? No.

Our wealth and income inequality has led to a shrunken middle-class and widespread poverty. Doubling Bill Gates’ and billionaires’ net worth is not going to help at all.

Without the outsized returns for the few successes, fewer bright people try to start a company,

You get a lot more start ups when there is much less wealth inequality because more people have wealth to invest in start ups.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 12:31:11

However, that is what’s RIGHT with the US.

It certainly is right for Bill Gates and company. For the non genius crowd it hasn’t worked so well.

ISTR reading that in Germany (I think), if you are at the helm of a company that fails, you are barred from being in a similar position for something like 18 months–that is a strong disincentive to take big risks with start-ups. In the US, such an event is considered valuable experience.

I believe that rule applies to established companies, and not startups.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2013-09-03 12:50:38

“It certainly is right for Bill Gates and company. For the non genius crowd it hasn’t worked so well.”

Really? If the new technology that was developed didn’t create value for a large segment of the population, wouldn’t it have flopped/never been adopted?

Thanks for the clarification on the German law.

 
Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 13:11:53

I love how Americans convince themselves that the US is the most technologically innovative, creative, intellectually-advanced country in the world — all while America controls the distribution system.

-How many of you singing the praises of US STEM have been to Singapore or Guangzhou lately, hmmmm? Their internet infrastructures left ours in the dust fifteen years ago.

-Where is CERN located? (Hint: Not in Nebraska)

-Japan is a decade ahead of the US in bio-engineering technologies (Thanks GW)

-Russia’s space and missile technologies so far exceed that of the US that we use their old Soyuz rocketry for US launches.

-How is PRC able to hack so many US-created OS and encryptions?

To name a few conundrums.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 13:18:05

If the new technology that was developed didn’t create value for a large segment of the population, wouldn’t it have flopped/never been adopted?

Some things that don’t “create value” don’t flop.

Cocaine and Molly never flopped.

And even in technology, sometimes it’s a wash. How does a PC create much value for a company compared to other companies when the other companies have a PC too?

Where is the value created to a worker when his job is eliminated by technology?

Where is the value created for a St. Louis call worker when her job is sent to India via technology?

 
Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 13:44:36

Really?

Just because there are more iToys doesn’t mean we are better off. When J6P is in his middle age and can’t find a job, it really won’t matter how many apps his smart phone has.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2013-09-03 14:10:46

You can’t focus on how one individual isn’t helped by a new technology, or else you miss the bigger picture of tech’s impact on the whole of the economy/society.

Windows is not a toy.
MS Excel is not a toy.
Internet search, while often used for silly things, is not a toy.
MS Word is not a toy.
Drugs developed by Genentech are not toys.
LinkedIn, used right, is not a toy (and can help folks find employment).
Facebook is a toy (just like the TV).
New solar tech is not a toy.
More efficient use of energy is not a toy.
More efficient engine designs are not toys (I know of a startup working to dramatically increase combustion engine efficiencies).
New drug development processes are not toys, etc.

If I can come up with an invention that saves everyone in the US $10 per month in electricity costs, don’t you think that has an enormous amount of value? It doesn’t help overnight, and $10 doesn’t help the marginal utility company employee who lost his job because of the dramatically lower usage of electricity, but all those $10’s add up to a ton of different economic activity. The challenge is keeping those dollars here in the US (thus creating jobs here in the US) and not shipping them overseas.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2013-09-03 15:33:11

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/519016/stop-saying-robots-are-destroying-jobs-they-arent/

A timely article, and a key quote:

“Brynjolfsson and McAfee’s mistake comes from considering only first order effects of automation where the machine replaces the worker. But when a machine replaces a worker, there is a second order effect: the organization using the machine saves money and that money it flows back into to the economy either through lower prices, higher wages for the remaining workers, or higher profits. In all three cases that money gets spent which stimulates demand that other companies respond to by hiring more workers.”

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2013-09-03 16:13:42

“Brynjolfsson and McAfee’s mistake comes from considering only first order effects of automation where the machine replaces the worker. But when a machine replaces a worker, there is a second order effect: the organization using the machine saves money and that money it flows back into to the economy either through lower prices, higher wages for the remaining workers, or higher profits. In all three cases that money gets spent which stimulates demand that other companies respond to by hiring more workers.”

But what if those higher profits just sit in overseas accounts waiting for a tax event that will allow them to be re-patriated tax-free?

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 16:21:22

the organization using the machine saves money and that money it flows back into to the economy either through lower prices, higher wages for the remaining workers, or higher profits. In all three cases that money gets spent

Wrong. Here’s the deal that’s killing us. The above is FALSE. All that money does not “get spent“. If taxes were much higher on the rich, that money WOULD get spent but it’s not. Let’s face the facts staring us in the face. Let’s look around.

All that “value added” profit has been pooling into very few hands. The rich’s taxes are so low that the money is not spent. The profit can just pool untaxed. Thus no investment or spending. Thus massive wealth inequality. That someone could write or believe all the money is “spent” in the face of a declining middle-class while wealth inequality is sky-rocketing is hard to believe.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2013-09-03 17:31:20

If you look over a longer time periods, that money absolutely gets spent or invested.

Wealthy individuals do not just leave their wealth in cash–it’s a sure fire way to lose wealth to inflation over time. Nor do the vast majority of businesses over long periods of time. However, I’m not going to completely ignore your comments. There is some truth there, especially today…that money is sitting disproportionately in cash…doing nothing. In the case of corporate profits, much is sitting overseas–waiting for the next tax holiday.

However, a lot of the wealth is sitting in US bank accounts…owned by individuals. The owners of that wealth are nervous about a number of things…Dodd Frank (not yet fully implemented), Fed tapering and the effect of higher rates on the economy, Obamacare implementation, etc.

Make do doubt about it though, the money is there. And when it comes out to play, it will do exactly as they say, begin to cycle around the economy.

Corporate tax reform is needed (too bad the Simpson/Bowles plan has been ignored), and we need less uncertainty in the economy. We should not be passing laws that are too long for people to read before voting, and take 5-8 years to implement…especially following a massive credit crunch and recession. Yet, we got Dodd Frank and Obamacare shoved down our throats and now we are paying the price in terms of increased uncertainty.

In “normal times” with much less uncertainty, and not coming off of the biggest liquidity crunch in 80 years, cash holdings are MUCH lower.

Another item to consider. What has had a bigger impact on the US middle class…wealth inequality? Or the rising prospects of lower classes in developing economies around the world (at the expense of the US middle class)? It seems pretty clear to me that globalization is the bigger culprit. Take a look at wage inflation in places like China and India–China has been at over 10% for YEARS (with low single-digit inflation overall). This is a direct effect of labor demand from companies seeking cheaper labor. Over time, the draw to go to these other countries will diminish.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 17:41:17

If you look over a longer time periods, that money absolutely gets spent or invested.

It’s invested in America if it’s taxed in America or incentivised to be invested in America . As it is now, it’s mostly invested in foreign countries and offshore bank accounts.

The owners of that wealth are nervous about a number of things…

Like will their 5ths mansion be in The Hamptons or Palm Beach.

 
Comment by Overtaxed
2013-09-04 18:18:54

So sorry I was late to this thread.

For those who think that outsourcing IT to a “high IQ” country is the wave of the future, you need to spend some time dealing with TCS (Tata). Their model is “throw people” at the job. They throw so many people that eventually, somehow, the work gets done. Late, sloppy code, and not anywhere near the standards that are typically done by the domestic shops.

It’s cheap for a reason; they aren’t as good. If you are a star consultant for TCS, you’re going to get a visa and come to the US and start to work for US wages, not India wages. If you’re a “call taker” (which TCS seems to have millions of) and can only enter a ticket, then you’re going to stay in India and keep an India wage.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen outsourcing IT go badly. It looks great on paper (as many things do); but, in practice, for most moderate size companies, it really doesn’t pan out. Service levels drop, innovation drops and eventually the company finds itself paying as much as they did before because they have 10 people to do the job that one guy sitting in the office did before.

Now, for very large multi-nationals, it’s a bit of different story. They are so big they have their own support structure inside of the oursource shops; some of them staffed by very competent (often US/Europe based) engineers.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 06:47:08

Hope and Change

“For most Americans, the real estate crash is finally behind them and personal wealth is back where it was in the boom. For blacks in the U.S., 18 years of economic progress has vanished, with a rebound in housing slipping further out of reach and the unemployment rate almost twice that of whites.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-03/black-homeownership-dying-where-obama-revitalized.html

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 07:26:13

“For blacks in the U.S., 18 years of economic progress has vanished,…”

Though HUD’s forced subprime lending to minorities scheme failed miserably, their new forced integration social engineering scheme is certain to remedy the situation.

 
 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 07:23:40

Zipcode determines lifespan? Who makes up this sh!t?

Get ready to meet your “gay” neighbors, folks!

Obama to use housing department to diversify neighborhoods
Reporter: Kristin Walker August 10, 2013 in US

In a move that has rankled critics who complain that smacks of social engineering, the Obama administration has announced it will be imposing a new rule that would permit the federal government to track “diversity” in the neighborhoods of America to ensure that they have the racial and other makeup that matches the demographics of the rest of the country and punish those that do not do so.

The administration’s policy is called “Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing” and will require the Department of Housing and Urban Development to gather data on segregation and discrimination in every neighborhood and remedy it.

The rule was unveiled by HUD Secretary Shaun Donovan at the NAACP convention this July.

“Unfortunately, in too many of our hardest hit communities, no matter how hard a child or her parents work, the life chances of that child, even her lifespan, is determined by the zip code she grows up in. This is simply wrong,” he said.

While specifics of the rule are not yet available, the government intends to use data from the “discrimination” database to work with zoning laws, housing finance policy, infrastructure planning and transportation to force all neighborhoods to reach diversity requirements.

Under diversity policies businesses have been penalized for not having enough members of a certain minority group working for them even if no qualified minorities qualified for the position. Additionally, with the addition of sexual orientation to federal discrimination laws, neighborhoods could be forced to have a certain percentage of “gay” homeowners in the neighborhood as well as a certain percentage of black, Hispanic and other homeowners.

Critics have said the rules smack of social engineering and will result in serious problems.

This is just the latest of a series of attempts by HUD to social engineer the American people,” Ed Pinto, of the American Enterprise Institute told Fox News. “It started with public housing and urban renewal, which failed spectacularly back in the 50′s and 60′s. They tried it again in the 90′s when they wanted to transform house finance, do away with down payments, and the result was millions of foreclosures and financial collapse.

Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 07:31:11

Dude, this has already been posted on HBB multiple times.

This will be as successful as school busing to integrate schools was.

Put a COEXIST sticker on that, kidz.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 07:41:34

Dude, this has already been posted on HBB multiple times.

Has it been covered by a legitimate news source yet?

Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 09:01:11

“legitimate news source” = coastal elitist bedwetter libtards.

New York Times
Washington Post
all of Network TV
MSNBC
CNN
NPR

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 09:46:39

Exactly, one of those.

Thus far I’ve only seen it ‘reported’ on Fox news secondary sites, and whatever the heck the Morning Ledger is (probably a Fox news secondary site). So we really don’t know what the facts are yet.

 
Comment by Hi-Z
2013-09-03 11:39:37

“Thus far I’ve only seen it ‘reported’ on Fox news secondary sites, and whatever the heck the Morning Ledger is (probably a Fox news secondary site). So we really don’t know what the facts are yet.”

So unless it is reported on one of your chosen sources, you do not consider it true.

From FederalRegister.gov
Publication date July 19, 2013
Action Proposed Rule.
Summary
Through this rule, HUD proposes to provide HUD program participants with more effective means to affirmatively further the purposes and policies of the Fair Housing Act, which is Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968. The Fair Housing Act not only prohibits discrimination but, in conjunction with other statutes, directs HUD’s program participants to take steps proactively to overcome historic patterns of segregation, promote fair housing choice, and foster inclusive communities for all. As acknowledged by the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) and many stakeholders, advocates, and program participants, the current practice of affirmatively furthering fair housing carried out by HUD grantees, which involves an analysis of impediments to fair housing choice and a certification that the grantee will affirmatively further fair housing, has not been as effective as had been envisioned. This rule accordingly proposes to refine existing requirements with a fair housing assessment and planning process that will better aid HUD program participants fulfill this statutory obligation and address specific comments the GAO raised. To facilitate this new approach, HUD will provide states, local governments, insular areas, and public housing agencies (PHAs), as well as the communities they serve, with data on patterns of integration and segregation; racially and ethnically concentrated areas of poverty; access to education, employment, low-poverty, transportation, and environmental health, among other critical assets; disproportionate housing needs based on the classes protected under the Fair Housing Act; data on individuals with disabilities and families with children; and discrimination. From these data, program participants will evaluate their present environment to assess fair housing issues, identify the primary determinants that account for those issues, and set forth fair housing priorities and goals. The benefit of this approach is that these priorities and goals will then better inform program participant’s strategies and actions by improving the integration of the assessment of fair housing through enhanced coordination with current planning exercises. This proposed rule further commits HUD to greater engagement and better guidance for program participants in fulfilling their obligation to affirmatively further fair housing. With this new clarity through guidance, a template for the assessment, and a HUD-review process, program participants should achieve more meaningful outcomes that affirmatively further fair housing.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 14:54:11

So unless it is reported on one of your chosen sources, you do not consider it true.

Sometimes, other times I just don’t trust the details or how it’s presented.

Like here. Now we see the actual proposed rule, not Fox’s version of it. Where does it say that there must be x number of every minority in every neighborhood?

 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 17:23:48

High 5 to Hi-Z!

 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 18:05:05

“Where does it say that there must be x number of every minority in every neighborhood?”

I’m pretty sure that with the right legal interpretation, the following passage would say just that:

This rule accordingly proposes to refine existing requirements with a fair housing assessment and planning process that will better aid HUD program participants fulfill this statutory obligation and address specific comments the GAO raised. To facilitate this new approach, HUD will provide states, local governments, insular areas, and public housing agencies (PHAs), as well as the communities they serve, with data on patterns of integration and segregation; racially and ethnically concentrated areas of poverty; access to education, employment, low-poverty, transportation, and environmental health, among other critical assets; disproportionate housing needs based on the classes protected under the Fair Housing Act; data on individuals with disabilities and families with children; and discrimination. From these data, program participants will evaluate their present environment to assess fair housing issues, identify the primary determinants that account for those issues, and set forth fair housing priorities and goals. The benefit of this approach is that these priorities and goals will then better inform program participant’s strategies and actions by improving the integration of the assessment of fair housing through enhanced coordination with current planning exercises. This proposed rule further commits HUD to greater engagement and better guidance for program participants in fulfilling their obligation to affirmatively further fair housing. With this new clarity through guidance, a template for the assessment, and a HUD-review process, program participants should achieve more meaningful outcomes that affirmatively further fair housing.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-04 06:42:42

I’m pretty sure you’re wrong.

 
 
Comment by Neuromance
2013-09-03 09:36:28

One thing I’ve seen over the years is the blogosphere, excepting the kooky stuff, is typically a year or two ahead of the “legitimate” news.

Radio, TV and print were an exclusive medium and access to it was tightly controlled, making control of thought much easier. And making it quite lucrative for those controlling it.

The internet has opened up access to the marketplace of ideas. The big powerbrokers of the legacy media are none too happy about it. There are efforts to rein in the Internet, but so far, they’ve been unsuccessful. There are powerful forces who do wish to lock it down, for a variety of reasons, from advertising to ideological. But for now, it’s quite open.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 09:48:05

excepting the kooky stuff

And those are the only places we’ve seen it reported thus far.

 
Comment by Neuromance
2013-09-03 11:50:55

Well. I suppose it is based on what one defines as “kooky.”

I’d define “kooky” as typically not reporting verifiable facts and prone to making unfalsifiable claims. Regardless of political leanings. You’ve implicitly defined it as being affiliated with Fox News.

Is the “Obama housing diversity” claim true? I suppose time will tell. But, I don’t require it to be reported on, for example, MSNBC or NYT, to make that judgement. In fact, I would be surprised if it were presented by either of those two organizations.

But I do need to know something about the track record of the reporting website in order to weigh the likelihood of accuracy.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 12:05:45

I’d define “kooky” as typically not reporting verifiable facts and prone to making unfalsifiable claims….You’ve implicitly defined it as being affiliated with Fox News.

Are Fox fans kooky because Fox is kooky or is Fox kooky because Fox’s fans are kooky?

Survey: NPR’s listeners best-informed, Fox viewers worst-informed

http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/174826/survey-nprs-listeners-best-informed-fox-news-viewers-worst-informed/

People who watch MSNBC and CNN exclusively can answer more questions about domestic events than people who watch no news at all. People who only watch Fox did much worse. NPR listeners answered more questions correctly than people in any other category….

…The largest effect is that of Fox News: all else being equal, someone who watched only Fox News would be expected to answer just 1.04 domestic questions correctly — a figure which is significantly worse than if they had reported watching no media at all.

 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 15:26:25

Who won the New Hampshire primary? The Iowa Caucus?

Those are the big questions they asked? Really?

No wonder the average scores were like 1 out of 4.

 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 18:32:11

“Survey: NPR’s listeners best-informed, …”

They get the NAR’s propaganda blurb 24/7!

 
 
 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 07:43:14

“Dude, this has already been posted on HBB multiple times.”

I don’t recall having seen the version with Pinto’s comments; sorry if this is a repost.

“This will be as successful as school busing to integrate schools was.”

My high school, in a formerly middle-class suburb of a Midwest city, was subject to busing. When I was a student there, the school offered two sections of calculus, advanced physics, advanced chemistry, and other college preparatory courses. They didn’t send that many kids to top universities, but they at least sent a few every year.

Fast forward thirty-five years, post-busing: The school has lost its accreditation. Not to suggest there is any connection, or anything…

Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 08:02:02

That’s racis.

You need some Diversity Training.

Because our differences only make us stronger!

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Comment by michael
2013-09-03 08:05:00

socialism causes a reduction in quality….news at a 11:00!

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Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 14:48:49

And for others it creates an increase in quality. Imagine that!

 
Comment by michael
2013-09-03 16:48:39

we can agree to disagree on that…my public school experiecne in the MS delta is that it turned to equal shit for everybody.

 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 17:28:21

“And for others it creates an increase in quality. Imagine that!”

I’m having a hard time envisioning who was made better off by my HS losing its accreditation. But I’m sure that can be rationalized away as having nothing to do with programs intended to make everyone better off through the magic of racial diversity.

 
Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 19:59:44

Losing its accreditation took decades, prof, and was a reflection of shifting economic factors, not the racial makeup of your hs. Kids got bussed into Beverly Hills High School, too, and by golly, it’s still accredited forty years later!

In the short term, I’m willing to bet that the kids who got bussed into an AP/college track facility from a cruddy inner-city dump saw an enormous bump in the quality of the instruction available to them. I’m also willing to bet that a certain percentage of them performed better and started out in life with a better chance than they would have had if they’d stayed in their old school.

But surely you know this?

 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 20:56:53

“Losing its accreditation took decades, prof, and was a reflection of shifting economic factors, not the racial makeup of your hs.”

As I recall the situation, the first kids bussed in joined while I was a student, in the late 1970s. At the time the racial demographic was 98%+ lily white.

A couple of years after I graduated, I visited one of my former English teachers. She couldn’t keep the kids in their seats during my visit…they would get up and leave the classroom over her request to stay put. Discipline, which was fully enforced and maintained while I was a student, had gone completely out the window.

Soon I heard through the grapevine that my former calculus teacher had up and quit; seems he preferred running a lumberyard to teaching in a school on a steep downhill slide.

A few more years down the road, one of my former HS classmates, who owned a home nearby our old HS, sold his home at maybe a $30,000 loss (lotsa money back in that day!), due in part to a substantial increase in ‘neighborhood diversity’ which drove away the former lily white residents.

Current racial demographics (most recent available for 2010-11 school year): white 1.4%, black 98.3%, Hispanic 0.2%, Asian 0.1%.

I don’t know how one separates the effect of “shifting economic factors” from “racial composition,” as the two are highly interconnected in the Midwest. I suggest that both played a role in the tragic decline of my former HS.

And since you apparently lived in California for most of your life, I’m guessing you haven’t witnessed this kind of “economic shift” first hand the way I have.

 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 21:12:11

“In the short term, I’m willing to bet that the kids who got bussed into an AP/college track facility from a cruddy inner-city dump saw an enormous bump in the quality of the instruction available to them.”

That may be.

Too bad a decent high school with around 1500 kids grades 10-12 had to go down the tubes to offer a few kids this bump.

I don’t mean to seem racist here. I grew up in a household where racism was deemed the source of all problems facing inner-city black families, with my white neighbors given the blame (of course my very inclusive white father was above racism).

Now that I am older, I tend to suspect what all of our white neighbors who moved further and further west into newly built more upscale suburbs really wanted to avoid was not so much racial diversity as it was high crime rates, falling property values, a pervasive communal sense of distrust, and schools with intractable discipline problems which destroyed learning opportunities for everyone. I don’t think racism per se had much to do with it. Blacks who could afford to move away from the encroaching wave of inner city blight did so right along with the whites. Needless to say, the flight of affluence is also a causal factor of a demographic death spiral to ghettohood.

 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 21:16:29

“But surely you know this?”

I’m starting to suspect you know less about shifting neighborhood demographics in the Midwest than I do. If you want an academic perspective, look up some of the articles John Quigley wrote on the subject.

 
 
Comment by (Neo-) Jetfixr
2013-09-03 12:00:55

And of course, it was all bussing’s fault, and not because numerous midwest cities have been gutted of their middle class residents due to outsourcing and globalization.

My former school district was one of the best school districts in the state, with approx. 10% (mostly poor) African-American, yet still managed to graduate (and send to college) a very high percentage of them.

Fast foward 30 years; the percentage of (all) minorities has grown higher, but it is still one of the best districts in the state, if not the country.

Why? Resources, IOW money.

The top 10% live here, because state income taxes are low. School levies are high, but the (relatively) rich don’t mind paying for public schools in their own districts.

Those rural kids in BFE, and in African-American and Hispanic majority areas will just have to take care of themselves

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 07:32:52

“Under diversity policies businesses have been penalized for not having enough members of a certain minority group working for them even if no qualified minorities qualified for the position.”

I guess we can thank the Democratic party for crazy laws such as this one?

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 07:39:45

I wonder if you could fake being gay to get into a neighborhood you desired. Make a good sitcom, kind of an updated Three’s Company.

Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 10:00:45

I wonder if you could fake being gay to get into a neighborhood you desired.

So, how would this be implemented? Will the protected classes get free money to buy? Will homeowners be forced at gunpoint to sell? Or if they are selling, will they have to give priority to offers from the protected classes? Will homeowners be forced to rent out their houses?

Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 10:37:07

So, how would this be implemented?

I have no idea. I’m dubious about the whole thing since I’ve yet to see it reported by a legitimate news org.

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Comment by oxide
2013-09-03 12:25:18

Will homeowners be forced at gunpoint to sell?

Eminent domain? Because diversity is a “public good?”

Yikes… maybe I shouldn’t give them any ideas…

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Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 13:46:41

I’m sure there are more than a few underwater McMansion dwellers who would be happy to have the government take their house off their hands.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2013-09-03 16:12:05

As long as they get a check somewhere in the process. You know…to cover moving expenses…as well as pain and suffering.

 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2013-09-03 10:32:16

If my nabe had more gays and lesbians in it, I’d be turning cartwheels. Why? Because they take VERY good care of their properties, are generally quite friendly, and are caring people.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 10:38:32

I agree. It’s also often a sign of an up-and-coming neighborhood.

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 17:22:20

“Because they take VERY good care of their properties, are generally quite friendly, and are caring people.”

You make a very good point. At least in tolerant states like CA, this could serve to raise property values.

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Comment by oxide
2013-09-03 07:50:51

Logic fail. HUD would do better to counteract global warming by training those youths to be pirates.

 
Comment by Army No Va
2013-09-03 09:31:04

How can they possibly execute this? In say Burlington VT which is almost all white. Or in Rye Ny where the median price is astronomical.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 10:09:01

“How can they possibly execute this?”

Since when did inability to execute a policy stand in the way of its pursuit?

Comment by Army No Va
2013-09-03 10:17:19

Greenwich Ct and Rye NY will get an exemption as that is where the bankers live who own the govt including HUD

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2013-09-03 10:33:16

Burlington has quite the African refugee community.

Comment by Army No Va
2013-09-03 10:51:24

Didn’t know that. They are all set then. What about the rest of New England?

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Comment by Joe Smith
2013-09-03 07:33:53

“Buyers tap brakes after rates rise” —> LOL! And there’s a quote from Larry Yun…. amazing.
——————————-
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-30/new-york-to-seattle-buyers-tap-brakes-after-rates-rise.html

Contracts to buy previously owned homes fell 1.3 percent last month, the biggest decline this year, the National Association of Realtors said two days ago. They slid 6.5 percent in the Northeast and 4.9 percent in the West, the data showed. The figures followed a report last week that July new-home sales plunged 13.4 percent, paced by a 16.1 percent drop in the West.

“There is a bigger monthly payment shock in the high-cost areas,” said Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the Realtors group. “Higher interest rates may pull demand out.”

Applications Decline
Home-loan applications for purchases have declined 14 percent since the start of May when interest rates surged by the most in two decades, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association, and price appreciation has slowed, albeit from the fastest pace in seven years.

The average rate on a 30-year, fixed-rate purchase loan has risen to 4.51 percent from a record-low 3.31 percent in November, according to McLean, Virginia-based Freddie Mac, as the Federal Reserve said it’s planning to wean the economy from its record stimulus.

Higher rates mean that on a $400,000 conventional mortgage, monthly payments would be about $275 more. Rates on jumbo mortgages, those too big for government programs, have climbed to 4.69 percent from 3.88 percent at the beginning of May.

Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 08:26:58

I wonder if it has more to do with running out pf fence sitters.

Yesterday at a BBQ, I overheard that the Ft. Collins market, which was red hot in the Spring and early Summer, is now “chilly”.

Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 09:17:22

Shared a table at a wedding reception with a koolaid drinker this weekend. Mid 30’s, married, one 5yo sprog, currently living in Arvada. And they want to move to… drumroll please… Broomfield/Superior/Louisville. All to get the sprog into better schools, because it’s “for the children” or whatever BS these debt donkeys believe.

The bride and groom will likely be DINKs for life, no kidz, just money!

Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 09:50:44

All to get the sprog into better schools

I remember in the 90’s that San Diegans would move to Poway for that same reason. I had more than a few very smug coworkers at the HP campus in Rancho Bernardo who felt very superior because they lived in Poway … until there was a shooting at the Poway Walmart.

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1993/Customer-Shoots-Kills-Wal-Mart-Store-Manager-in-Argument-Over-Gun/id-6907b828829836ac5ac8d835f2f6343e

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Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 14:57:23

I used to drive through Poway when I covered San Bernardino County. Town made Fontana look upscale, inhabited mostly by peons for the mafia-owned “spa” nearby. When did it become upscale? More to the point, when did it get a school district?

 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 19:39:12

“When did it become upscale? More to the point, when did it get a school district?”

Dunno for sure. Based on the few mansion-sized Poway McMansions I have visited, I would guess the upscaleness peaked out between 1980-1990. Perhaps narcotic sales had something to do with it? (Search this reference on Poway for a hint.)

And these days the school district is a great source of financial fascination!

Pomerado Newspaper Group-Aug 27, 2013
PUSD granted extension to respond to critical bond report
By Steve Dreyer

The date by which the Poway Unified School District must respond to a San Diego Grand Jury investigation on the use of controversial bonds to finance school construction has been extended to Sept. 17.

A spokeswoman for the jury said the extension, from the original due date of Aug. 20, was granted by the presiding judge of the San Diego Superior Court. A similar request from the Julian Unified School District was also approved. The remaining 45 school districts in the county all submitted their responses on time, she said.

The grand jury’s report, released in late May, called for “countywide school bond reform.” Those reforms should include “greater citizen oversight of bond requirements and increased transparency of total bond costs and future outlays,” the report said.

 
Comment by ahansen
2013-09-04 00:39:00

Thanks for keeping us updated on this. Should be fascinating to see how long they can postpone the day of reckoning.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 07:54:35

If anyone can elaborate on Ritholz’s assertion that Bill Gross “blackmailed” the Treasury Department into guaranteeing GSE debt, please do so.

Proof the Bond Bull is Over: PIMCO Selling Hedge Funds
by Barry Ritholtz - August 29th, 2013, 7:29am

If you have been seeking unequivocal proof that the 30 year bull market for bonds is over, look no further than this WSJ headline: Bond-King Pimco Plans to Push ‘Alternative Funds’.

Think about what this means: From 1980 to 2013, PIMCO enjoyed three decades of rising bond prices — read falling interest rates — and accumulated a massive pool of over $2 trillion in assets under management (AUM). Founded in 1971, the firm rode the bond Bull better than anyone else. The bond bull also led them to manage the world’s largest mutual fund, their Total Return Fund, which has amassed $242.7 billion in assets.

To me, the fact that PIMCO is embracing alternative investments signals the end of the bond bull market. While some folks may want to blame a change in culture due to Allianz acquiring PIMCO, let me remind you that was almost 14 years ago.

The WSJ notes the impact of the hilariously misnamed JOBS Act:

Douglas Hodge, Pimco’s chief operating officer, called alternative investments “a very important area for us” in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. He said the firm is responding to increased demand from investors of all types, as well as to changing regulations.

But the push into riskier, more-complex products marks a shift for the firm, whose bond funds have long been seen as some of the safest and most reliable on the market.

The SEC moved last month to lift a restriction prohibiting hedge funds, private equity firms and other businesses from publicising shares in private offerings as part of the Jumpstart Our Business Startups Act, effective September 23. That allows Pimco and others to pitch alternative products more directly to institutional investors as well as wealthy individuals.

I thought PIMCO had jumped the shark when Bill Gross blackmailed Treasury into guaranteeing Fannie & Freddie’s paper. Note that these were not government owned entities but rather were publicly traded firms. The implied guarantee was forced to become an actual guarantee, costing taxpayers 100s of billions of dollars so far.

With their foray into hedge funds, any suspicion you may have had that the bond bull market was in the 9th inning should be laid to rest.

 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 08:05:48

A few years back, (like 6, hard to believe it is that long already) there was a weekend topic of “how would you fix it”. Reading other peoples’ thoughts, as well as trying to come up with my own fix forced me to dig deeply into the issues with our economy. This REALLY increased my understanding of the issues.

Trying to discuss those issues with others on this site have not really progressed much in those 6 years sense.

In my personal and professional life, I find that most failure to agree on a solution originate from differences in desired outcomes.

This makes me wonder about the people on this site that I have so much trouble discussing things with. So, I wonder, what are your ideal outcomes for the country/economy?

It is clear to me that Housing Analyst wants house prices to crash. I’m not 100% sure if he’s desire comes from personal gain, like maybe he’s sitting on a pile of money hoping to become Mr. Potter. It is either that, or he’s an Al Quaeia terrorist trying to destroy the United States.

My personal desired outcome is for a return to fundamentally sound, capitalistic economy, strong middle class, good jobs for the masses, and a high standard of living.

So, are you in it for personal gain? Greater good? Punishment of those you see as having made poor decisions? Destruction of the United States and its position as only super power in the current world order? The party that espouses your personal dogmatic political belief in permanent power? Destruction of the Federal Reserve, fiat currency, and the fractional reserve banking system?

How do you think your personal desired outcome effects your beliefs on the current economic condition of the country/world?

Comment by Joe Smith
2013-09-03 08:16:47

RAL is not representative of HBB as a whole. Most do not want housing prices to “keeyyyyrash”, they would like less government backstopping of housing policies which drive up prices for consumers (both owners and renters) while rewarding bad decisions and risk-taking by realtors, banks, and hedge funds/PE.

If you go a little beyond housing into the economy at large, I think most of us would agree that the incentives as a whole are wrong. “Growth” is a term that must be unpacked - focusing on quantity and aggregates distorts our view and results in bad priorities. I don’t know what an “optimal” level of unemployment is, but neither does the Fed. I don’t know what optimal inflation/CPI is or even what the best way to measure it is (there is some merit in chained CPI, but it has limitations). Look at any “data” used to discuss the economy or policies then ask, does Congress or the Fed really know WTF they’re doing? What are they doing and why? Being critical is a start. It doesn’t mean we’ll agree on everything. Everyone doesn’t have to get along, Darryl. There can be value in disagreements. When people post brony-minded Drudge links, that’s the idiocy I can’t stand, but for the most part, posters here bring good things to the table. The others are the exception, not the rule.

And RAL brings some value bc he rails against the mindless consumerism and “how much a month” and Realtor-speak that exists out there in society.

Comment by Joe Smith
2013-09-03 08:22:09

I am adding that although we aren’t rooting for a crash, I think many of us agree that home prices should fall more in line with actual earnings and with the reasonable lifespan one attributes to a house. A 3 BR 50 yr old house in a 1/4 acre lot in an exurban area with a median household income of 50k should not sell for 350k, for example.

What should it sell for? Who knows. That’s for the market to decide. But the market can’t decide if we prop up the banks and keep pretending that asset values are the “big issue” in society. To have a vital society, it would be better to focus on the “inputs” (education, healthcare, the legal system, infrastructure) and let the “outputs” (asset values, like home prices) reach their own levels without gov’t support. The government’s job should be to create a solid base upon which outputs can thrive, QOL can increase, etc.

Comment by Dale
2013-09-03 13:43:49

” I think many of us agree that home prices should fall more in line with actual earnings and with the reasonable lifespan one attributes to a house.”

…..that would be a crash.

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Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 08:26:18

Time to get a room you two.

Comment by Joe Smith
2013-09-03 09:06:54

Maybe he can have the empty room in my skull where RAL used to live rent-free.

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Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 09:09:19

RAL moved on? I’m still enjoying that vast empty space.

 
Comment by Joe Smith
2013-09-03 09:41:07

RAL (you) fled when the sheriff posted the writ ahead of the actual eviction.

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 09:52:20

You got your characters mixed up liberace.

 
Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 10:14:48

It’s pretty dark at Paddles, understandable you two might not have recognized each other last weekend.

 
 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 10:30:18

Time to get a room you two.

Why get a room now when you can “get one for 60% less later“?

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Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 11:13:46

Exactly. That’s why you rent the room.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Carl Morris
2013-09-03 08:21:44

It is clear to me that Housing Analyst wants house prices to crash. I’m not 100% sure if he’s desire comes from personal gain, like maybe he’s sitting on a pile of money hoping to become Mr. Potter. It is either that, or he’s an Al Quaeia terrorist trying to destroy the United States.

My personal desired outcome is for a return to fundamentally sound, capitalistic economy, strong middle class, good jobs for the masses, and a high standard of living.

So how would dramatically lower housing prices be in conflict with your personal desired outcome? To me they are tied together.

I’m waiting for houses to go down to 2-3 times yearly income for personal gain AND to strengthen the country. The fact that it might take a few bankers out is just icing on the cake.

Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 08:37:16

The fact that it might take a few bankers out is just icing on the cake.

I think the concern is that the Banking Clan will take us down with them.

A concern that I have is that if our system in general comes crashing down and our military machine suddenly goes “bye-bye” that an angry and vengeful world will decide that it’s payback time.

Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 08:47:09

repost of short fiction piece about teotwawki scenario in usa:

http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2013/08/26/bracken-alas-brave-new-babylon/

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Comment by tresho
2013-09-03 09:07:57

Pat Frank’s 1950’s piece “Alas, Babylon” is an alternative future about a nuclear strike on the USA. A Soviet attack on the USA is triggered by this (fictional) event: Events in the Eastern Mediterranean go from bad to worse. A US Navy fighter pilot defies standing orders and chases a Soviet fighter jet into Syrian airspace. He launches an air-to-air missile to bring it down, but the missile goes astray and strikes Soviet naval facilities in the port city of Latakia. The missile sets off a chain reaction of explosions and destroys much of the port. One thing leads to another and soon millions die.
A made for TV version of “Alas, Babylon” was broadcast in 1960, a couple of years before the Cuban Missile Crisis.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2013-09-03 11:09:51

repost of short fiction piece about teotwawki scenario in usa:

I’m not so concerned about the lights going out. I really doubt that will happen.

I’m more concerned that once we no longer have our “big stick” that we might experience the joy of having foreign drones and missiles launched against our cities.

 
Comment by oxide
2013-09-03 12:37:12

Carl, if you take into account the “new normal” of two incomes and low(er) interest rates, then house prices HAD come down to meet wages. At interest rates of 4-5%, two $50K teachers can afford a decent 3/2 in my area, which is an expensive area. In other parts of the country, it’s even more favorable.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2013-09-03 16:16:30

At interest rates of 4-5%, two $50K teachers can afford a decent 3/2 in my area, which is an expensive area.

I suspect either someone gave them (or they already saved somehow) a big chunk of cash…or we have a different definition of “afford”.

 
 
 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 08:55:13

High housing prices are a symptom of deeper economic problems.

I’ve used this metaphor before, but it fits.

A gun shot victim is in the emergency room, and blood is puddling on the floor. The nurses are hanging bag after bag of blood and pumping it into the patient, and as fast as they pump the blood in, it leaks back out and is puddling up on the floor.

Many see the nurses pumping the blood into the patient and then it ending up on the floor and say “STOP pumping in the blood”.

I say “Let’s fix the gunshot wounds first, THEN we won’t need to pump in the blood. If we stop pumping in the blood without first fixing the leaks, the patient will die.”

The gun shot wounds are our massive trade imbalances. $600B a year leaking out of the country to foreign trade partners, and another $900B a year being accumulated by people that already have way more money than they can spend (the 0.1%ers).

The blood is, of course, debt/money that we call fiat currency.

First we embraced free trade and flattened the tax code. This created imbalances, draining money from circulation… the gun shot wounds.

THEN, to allow the economy to function, we loosened lending. This allowed new money to be created (by being borrowed into existence) as fast as it drains out… pumping the blood into the patient.

It is the loose lending that has allowed debt to puddle up on the floor, from the long series of bubble after bubble after bubble.

So, yes. I want us to stop living on debt. I want house prices to return to a more historic normal level.

However, I realize that if we try to do that, without first fixing the root cause (imbalances) we’re going to get where 2008 was taking us, total collapse.

First we need to go back to a 1950s style trade and tax policy.. the policies that created the middle class in the first place. THEN, the debt and bubbles will no longer be necessary.

 
 
Comment by the golden boy
2013-09-03 08:33:02

My personal desired outcome is for a return to fundamentally sound, capitalistic economy, strong middle class, good jobs for the masses, and a high standard of living.

And you support kicking the can every time. How’s that working out?

I want the same thing as you do but I do not see this happening as long as the Fed in charge and the US Government is the way it is. Crash is coming whether we like it not….then may be we can start building a sound economy if we are lucky.

Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 09:14:25

While I believe it unlikely we’ll fix our problems without a crash, I still hold out some hope, and at least TRY to enlighten people.

While “burn it down and start over” may seem like a good idea, history has shown that what comes after the revolution is usually MUCH worse that what existed before.

Burn it down and start over is NEVER what I’ll be arguing for when we talking about the entire country’s/world’s economy. That is the worst outcome, in my opinion.

Sure, I’ll try to talk to someone my dad’s age, and come away feeling like it is hopeless. The dogma espoused from both sides of the political spectrum is too strong to overcome with mere logic and data… You know, cogent argument that seems to alter the opinions of so few people.

But, I’m still going to try to make people understand. You’ve been lied to your entire life.

It all starts with trying to get people to understand what the dollar is, in the modern economy. But, NO ONE wants to understand. Their current beliefs are too ingrained.

I guess as close as I came to “let it burn” was when I was supporting Romney for president. I would have LOVED to see him try to slash government spending, lower taxes on the rich, while growing the economy. LoL.

It worked for Raygun because household debt was relatively low, so the debt spigot could be turned on and the private sector would suckle from the teat of borrow and spend economics.. Try that today. HAR! Har har, hardy har!

But, I didn’t expect a full crash, just for the deficits to continue, proving once and for all that while the Republicans like to suck up to the Tea Party fiscal conservatives, it’s just lip service.

Republicans are every but as much in favor of borrow and spend as the Democrats. It is, after all, how money is created.

Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 09:27:59

Let’s burn it down and not start over :)

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 10:49:09

If the Fed can print dollars (based on nothing) from a laptop at Starbucks, why does it matter if we borrow too many of them?

 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 12:15:58

“If the Fed can print dollars (based on nothing) from a laptop at Starbucks, why does it matter if we borrow too many of them?”

That’s fine, as long as they all end up in the hands of people that don’t actually try to spend them. In fact, as long as all the dollars are ending up in the hands of people that don’t spend them, we’re FORCED to just keep borrowing more of them into existence.

 
 
 
 
Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 08:39:11

In the immortal words of Jim Morrison, “I just wanna get my kicks before the whole sh*thouse goes up in flames”.

The problem is the species of humanity, that it keeps breeding, that it can’t govern itself, its delusional belief that infinite growth in a finite ecosystem is possible.

Since my desired outcome (a voluntary reduction in the breeding rates of humanoids until an optimal population level of 500 million is achieved), will never happen, I have no reason to believe in anything, except for the correct belief that it’s gonna get worse, and then it’s gonna get worser.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 08:49:04

“Why would pay more than new construction cost ($60 per square foot=materials, labor and profit) for a depreciating 20+ year old resale house?”

Because that’s what dumb borrowed money does?

 
Comment by tresho
2013-09-03 08:58:53

an optimal population level of 500 million is achieved
There are other ways to achieve that level, most of them involve key-rashing the population in such a way that 500 million will only be a point on a steeply falling curve. Starting WW IV in Syria might be a step in that direction.

 
Comment by the golden boy
2013-09-03 09:02:01

Make it 2.5 billion. I don’t think you are in 500mil crowd, goon.

Comment by tresho
2013-09-03 09:11:46

I don’t think you are in 500mil crowd, goon.
None of us is.

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Comment by michael
2013-09-03 10:01:15

500 milligrams of what?

 
 
 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 09:29:44

“The problem is the species of humanity, that it keeps breeding, ”

50 years ago, the global fertility rate was 5. Today it is at 2.4 and falling. We’re on trend to break below ZPG level of 2.15 within a couple decades.

http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_tfrt_in&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=global%20fertility%20rate

The United States, Europe, and most of the developed world has been below ZPG fertility rate since the mid-1970s.

Comment by michael
2013-09-03 09:59:30

but it’s got electrolytes.

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Comment by Rental Watch
2013-09-03 09:08:28

My personal expectation is that at least in California, we will continue to have boom bust cycles. The primary reason for this is that massive government bureaucracy limits new development (even dense development), even in the face of massive demand. So, when there is an increase in demand (for whatever reason), there is limited ability to react by adding supply.

And so this has impacted my investment philosophy with respect to housing in California.

So, my beliefs impacted my investment decisions, which creates my desired effect.

If I try to abstract from my business life, which is centered on investing in real estate, I’d like more limited involvement by state government in City planning (but not NO involvement), and no government involvement in the mortgage market. People need to have an expectation that investments can have losses…that is the only way to bring back appropriate underwriting.

Comment by Ben Jones
2013-09-03 09:17:31

‘My personal desired outcome…’

This is an oldie but goodie. I want it to be sunny and in the low 70’s today, with a quarter inch of rain while I take lunch.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 09:34:11

‘My personal desired outcome…’

clown.

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Comment by ahansen
2013-09-03 15:15:12

Interesting, Darrell. We must have read the same blurb this AM….

I’d like to see:

- an equal playing field– with rules that are enforced consistently- one where bullies and cheats are summarily ejected from the game and no one gets to hoard the ball.

- a return to good sportsmanship, where winning isn’t entirely defined by the final score and where while sterling effort is lauded, it’s not at the expense of the team effort.

-a mellower, more resourceful, less-complacent fandom that picks up its own trash and doesn’t rush the umpires on disputed calls.

How this relates to housing should be self-explanatory.

 
Comment by rms
2013-09-03 23:10:57

“So, I wonder, what are your ideal outcomes for the country/economy?”

I want to see the $50k/yr job actually pay down a $475k mortgage. Then I’ll become a believer.

“My personal desired outcome is for a return to fundamentally sound, capitalistic economy, strong middle class, good jobs for the masses, and a high standard of living.”

Well…there goes Israel, poof.

 
 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 08:56:28

Golden/FPSS…

Where can I get chicharron in NYC?

Comment by alpha-sloth
2013-09-03 10:33:27

chicharron in NYC

Elsa La Reina’s the best.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 11:16:11

And how do you know this….

 
 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 19:23:27

Golden boy didn’t answer; must not FPSS be.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 19:54:44

Golden Boy leans right; FPSS is a true political agnostic and equal opportunity mocker.

 
 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 19:38:39

Golden/FPSS…

As if they are the same. Unlike “golden”, it would take me over 6-7 factual posts to shut down FPSS’s bs. (if then)

Like me countering FPSS’s jive that Brazil would turn into the “stone-age” in 2012-13. Tell that to my shoemaker.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 19:43:49

You’ve deluded yourself kiddo.

 
 
 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 09:24:13

“When is housing massively overpriced? It’s quite simple. When the price of the house is in excess of the cost to build (materials, labor and profit), less depreciation for a used house.”

Exactly. No need to confuse it. It’s right around $55/sq ft, with profit.

Comment by Army No Va
2013-09-03 09:41:17

I’m still waiting on this deal in rye ny. Obviously you cannot deliver. And while next door in parts of port chester you may well be right esp along those rr tracs of metro north. But not in rye. You are off by a factor of 4. Just a few miles apart. Do you understand why?

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 09:45:01

What deal? $55/sq ft. is no bargain.

What’s the problem again?

 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 10:27:49

Don’t you know? There is infinite land in desirable locations, so land is free.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 11:12:33

There’s a globe full of land Darryl. And 95% of it goes undeveloped.

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Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 09:36:24

“If you pay current massively inflated asking prices for resale housing, you’ll get ripped off so excessively that you’ll never recover financially.”

You can say that again.

How many suckers have we heard about right here on the HBB that overpaid by $200k or more?

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 09:43:37

“Housing’s ‘Shadow Inventory’ Still Haunts Banks”

http://news.yahoo.com/housings-shadow-inventory-still-haunts-banks-152949909.html

With tens of millions of excess empty houses and another 35 million additional houses that are just beginning to empty as boomers expire, banks themselves will become haunted houses.

Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 09:55:34

that article is dated june 28th.

great scoop there, woodward & bernstein.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 09:57:23

Tens of millions of excess empty houses just up and disappeared in the matter of 90 days?

Show us this magic.

 
 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 10:21:55

From your link:
“We have seen a rise from $175 billion to $205 billion in the estimated value of the shadow inventory and I am guessing there is more to come.”

Let’s see… at $100K each, that would be 2 million houses. At $200K each. more like 1 million houses.

So, where are these 25 million excess empty houses that you keep talking about?

Or are the houses being carried on the banks’ balance sheets at the highly inflated price of $8K each?

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 11:11:15

Poor Darryl…. always apologizing for massively inflated housing prices.

Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 11:50:02

Answer the question.

$200B in shadow inventory, according to the article YOU linked.

Is that 1 million houses valued at $200K each? Is it 2 million houses at $100K each?

Or is it 25 million excess, empty houses at $8,000 each?

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Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 16:19:40

And always running from the reality there are tens of millions of excess empty houses….. and growing by the day.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Northeastener
2013-09-03 09:47:47

“No Full Auto Machine Gun For You!”

NFA Day of Reckoning

While Syria is distracting the media and public from such controversial issues like NSA spying, the Obama administration is using it’s Executive privilege to push changes to existing gun law, specifically the importation of firearms from overseas and the establishment of NFA trusts.

How many children are killed by weapons from NFA trusts a year? My guess, 0. Why? NFA trusts require thousands of dollars in legal fees to establish. The firearms allowed by an NFA trust can cost upwards of $20,000 and more. Those who establish and use NFA trusts do so primarily to allow their gun collections to be passed down from generation to generation. They are not the typical illegal .38 Special sold for $50 to a Chicago gang-banger…

I guess the gun-grabbers can’t get Federal legislation passed so they’ll have to settle for this Executive Order BS… Truly the Liberal Democrats of this country hate us for our freedoms.

Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 09:58:53

we have recall elections a week from today for two grabbers in the state senate:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/09/03/us/national-debate-on-gun-control-hits-home-in-colorado-recall.html

Comment by Northeastener
2013-09-03 10:21:21

Good. Kick the bums out and send them packing. They deserve every bit of public shame and humiliation coming to them when those recalls go through.

 
 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 10:11:55

I get the call for banning high capacity magazines after the Tuscon shooting of Giffords. Laughner fired until his guns ran empty. When he paused to reload, he was tackled and subdued.

(I understand, but don’t agree with. Better screening for mental illness would be, in my opinion, far more effective than tighter background checks.)

I don’t get BS like calls for tighter background checks after Sandy Hook. The shooter got the guns from his mom, who could have passed any background check.

It’s like invading Iraq because Al Quaeda is in Afghanistan. It doesn’t follow.

I loved how all the schools started putting in metal detectors after Columbine. Like those nuts would not have just shot the guy operating the metal detector.

Comment by Northeastener
2013-09-03 10:31:01

Some schools in CT are now getting armed private security guards. The security guards do not have authority to arrest students, but are armed. They serve the very specific purpose of deterrence to violent attack without providing intimidation to students at school.

Israel got this right when they started posting soldiers in and around schools to deter and defend against attack. And of course the private security guards aren’t Union, so they are significantly cheaper than a permanent Police presence.

Amazing what conclusions moonbats can come to once they take their head out of their rear…

“Chloe, take your head out of your ass, it isn’t a hat!” - Quote from Pitch Perfect

Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 10:39:24

That’s what I want… some guy making minimum wage hanging around the school with a gun.

I wonder if it will be like the National Guard at the airports after 9/11 that we’re not allowed to have any ammo. Nothing more intimidating than an M16 without a clip.

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Comment by 2banana
2013-09-03 10:51:06

Israel also allows it citizens to keep and bear arms. Up to fully automatic rifles. And allows them to walk around in public with them?

Why?

Doesn’t gun control = crime control?

Doesn’t “gun free zones” at school stop all gun violence?

Israel got this right

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 10:12:38

Yawn…

Investors exited ETFs in record numbers on Fed worries
September 3, 2013, 12:52 PM

Global exchange-traded products endured their largest monthly outflow on record in August, according to a report out Tuesday from BlackRock Inc. BLK +0.80% , the biggest ETFs provider.

The report suggested it’s all about the Fed, which has kept many traders on edge since May. Or the report at least hinted that’s the main driver, saying:

Global ETP flows in August turned negative to the tune of ($15.0bn), heavily impacted by the Federal Reserve signals on the tapering of bond purchases and the resulting expectation of higher interest rates. The industry has now alternated between strong and weak flows over the past four months as investors continue to digest news which began to shift in late May.

Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 10:25:13

Short-term rates are generally lower than long-term.

So, borrow short-term at low rates, buy long-bonds with longer rates, profit.

If short-term rates may be going up, then unwind the trade before you find yourself locked into long-term rates that are lower than your short-term borrowing as that would result in anti-profit.

Most people dislike anti-profit.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 11:22:21

Are you suggesting that now is the time to get into long-term bonds, at the point when PIMCO is exiting?

Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 11:46:54

Exactly the opposite.

I’m saying that with short-term rate uncertainty, the arbitragers will be getting out.

The Fed was saying things like “for an extended period” when discussing low rates in an effort to get people to borrow short-term and lend long-term. If that virtual promise to keep rates low for at least a few more years is going away, then it is time to unwind.

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 11:52:00

Sept. 3, 2013, 6:00 a.m. EDT
5 ways to prepare for higher interest rates
Commentary: Even long-term investors should take note
By Jeff Reeves

The Federal Reserve just had its annual economic retreat in Jackson Hole, but Chairman Ben Bernanke was nowhere to be found.

Though one man at one meeting doesn’t make or break U.S. monetary policy, Bernanke’s no-show is representative of the general lack of clarity investors have been grappling with lately.

Will there be “tapering” in September? Does tighter monetary policy mean higher interest rates? Who will take the reins of the Fed since it seems clear Bernanke won’t stay on past the end of his term in January?

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 13:23:35

5 ways to prepare for higher interest rates

Here’s a better way to prepare for higher interests: (Bluto’s Advice )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepFO4psgKE

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 17:20:19

Don’t forget to sell your long-term bonds before you start drinking…

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 10:45:08

If you produce 1000 times as much value as the average person, good for you!

Now spend most of that income consuming the production of those 1000 other people.

What we have to STOP is an economy where those 1000 people borrow money into existence, and the few just accumulate mass sums of other peoples’ debt.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-09-03 12:54:13

Lead the way. Get out of debt.

 
 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 11:09:44

It’s different here. They are not making anymore $150K for a month rentals.

Rio World Cup Rentals Already Booking

http://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-real-estate/rio-world-cup-rentals-already-booking/

Penthouse apartments of four or more bedrooms in Leblon or Ipanema are asking on average US$150,000 (R$300,000) for four weeks of rental, with seemingly no price limit for super luxury properties.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 11:39:47

In other news, Brazilian slums encompass 90% of the country.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-09-03 12:52:26

Likely to be more than that shortly after the sports complex bubble bursts.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 13:31:15

HA: Brazilian slums encompass 90% of the country……..BS:more than that shortly after the sports complex bubble bursts

Let’s do the math:
If 90% of Brazil were slums and 52% of Brazilians were “middle class” and 5% of Brazilians are “rich”, then my nicer house in Rio will skyrocket in price. Yea! (Tripling in 6 years just is not enough)

But gosh…….even Rio is only 20% slums.

You guys should get out more - see more. I hear they sell US passports at the US post office.

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Comment by Blue Skye
2013-09-03 18:31:14

The credit expansion bubble is going to be rather cruel to Brazilians. 3x in six years and you haven’t had a clue.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 18:47:09

The credit expansion bubble is going to be rather cruel to Brazilians. 3x in six years and you haven’t had a clue.

My clue:

Total outstanding mortgages as a percentage of their countries GDP:

USA: 70%
Brazil 6% (Can you read that? Do you understand the difference between the numbers? Does it compute?)

USA: Over-housed and middle class shrinking.
Brazil: Massive under-supply in housing, very little building because of lack of mortgages until now, while 30% of the entire country has moved up in class the past 17 years.

Do the math and get back to me. This is not the USA. This is not Canada. Get a passport and I’ll buy you a Brazilian drink. I think prices will go down here. And then they will go up. Yawn…..But when?

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2013-09-03 19:36:42

Oh goodie, you’re moving up to the middle class by the droves, on the wake of a massive credit expansion. The point is, that’s going to crash and all the debt donkeys recently liberated to bid up real estate are going to get crushed. You are not at the center of it all, but at the whip end. Prosperity depends on expanding global credit. Good luck.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 19:48:33

you’re moving up to the middle class by the droves, on the wake of a massive credit expansion

3 points there are wrong:

1. I’m not “moving to the middle class”. I’ve been there all my life.

2. There is no “you’re”. I’m not Brazilian.

3. Massive credit expansion in housing?

Again:

Total outstanding mortgages as a percentage of their countries’ GDP:

USA: 70%
Brazil 6% (Can you read that? Do you understand the difference between the numbers? Does it compute?)

that’s going to crash and all the debt donkeys recently liberated to bid up real estate are going to get crushed

Most transactions involve a lot of cash. Yea Housing debt is so far below USA’s it makes you seem desperate to pronounce otherwise.

Good luck

Thanks but I don’t need “luck” in my housing. It’s paid for. I’ve been “smart”…….. and lucky for once. It’s done. I’m not leaving soon because of a “bubble” I don’t care for now. It’s all jive in the long run. I can die worrying about what might have been.
Cheers.

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 19:57:59

And your losses are growing.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Bluestar
2013-09-03 11:18:30

FYI. If you buy lake front real-estate in Texas today you will get a bonus of extra land because the lake levels have dropped to historic lows. Lakes in N. Texas are running between 1/2 to 1/3 full and still dropping.

http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/2013/sep/03/lowest-lake-levels-reached/

“Nix predicts that without significant rain, the combined total of the two lakes could hit 30 percent in late September of early October. That would be the trigger point for stringent Stage 4 Drought Disaster water use restrictions.”

*Stage 5 Drought Disaster = you sell out for pennies on the dollar and move to the coast?

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-09-03 12:48:24

The water is still high up here and it keeps raining. We also have plenty of luxury apartments being prepared for the rich Texans to scoop up!

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2013-09-03 11:24:58

How bigger and bigger government with more and more regulations and higher and higher taxes spurs growth and employment.

———————-

Detroit Dishes Out Excessive Taxes, Fees To Business Owners
CapCon | 8/29/2013 | Tom Gantert

Restaurant Owner Janet Sossi Belcoure knows all about the business stifling taxes and fees required to operate in Detroit.

“They tax my parking lot even though I don’t charge people to use it,” Belcoure, owner of Roma Cafe in the Eastern Market, said.

She pays $1,800 for a valet license. And the city taxes her $400 simply for having an awning on the outside of her building.

“It’s just crazy,” she said. “They just keep taxing and licensing us to death to bring in income,” Belcoure said. “It’s to the point if somebody asks me about opening a restaurant in Detroit, I would recommend against it. It’s so costly. It’s not a business friendly city.”

The survey found it was two, three or more times as expensive in Detroit ($1,794) to start a food business as Grand Rapids ($784), Ann Arbor ($614) or New York City ($390) when reviewing four common licensing fees. Detroit ($2,660) also was higher than Ann Arbor ($1,849) and Oakland County ($471) when looking at four common inspection fees.

“Regulatory burdens and the fees associated with them is just another form of taxation, which raises the cost of living, working and investing in cities like Detroit,” said Michael LaFaive, director of the Morey Fiscal Policy Initiative for the Mackinac Center for Public Policy. “The Eastern Market survey is another reminder of how Detroit unnecessarily punishes the entrepreneurial class for having the moxie to try and run businesses there. Other cities do far less regulating and impose fewer in the way of fees, too. Detroit should look to them for regulatory reform guidance.”

“Those brave souls who have kept their doors open are paying inexplicably higher rates to comply with the same ordinances and laws as their peers in surrounding communities, with very little service to show for the higher cost of doing business,” Winslow said, in an email. “It is a primary reason why Detroit’s restaurant community pales in comparison to similar urban centers, and why so many surrounding communities like Royal Oak, Birmingham and Novi have developed world-class restaurant clusters of their own.”

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 19:48:04

“Detroit Dishes Out Excessive Taxes, Fees To Business Owners”

Drive out legitimate business with excessive taxes, and pretty soon the only business left in town will be criminal enterprise.

 
 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 11:45:32

“The deflationary spiral rages on…… whatever you do, stay out of debt and hold onto your cash.”

You better believe it mister.

 
Comment by polly
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 15:35:00

Wait, wait!

A doctor moves into a space next to a candy factory, then complains about the noise and demands the candy factory shut down, move, or stop being so noisy?

Whatever!!!!!

If the other guy was there first, making all that noise, the screw the doctor.

I see this all too often. People buy land that is cheap for some reason (like in the flight path of an airport or is across the street from Disneyland), then demands the business that was there first be closed, or forced to change how it does business.

BULL!!!! You knew the other business was there first, and shouldn’t have moved in if you didn’t like it.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 17:13:34

“People buy land that is cheap for some reason (like in the flight path of an airport or is across the street from Disneyland), then demands the business that was there first be closed, or forced to change how it does business.”

Or the neighbor builds an ugly super-sized garage that blocks your beautiful picture window view of the nearby mountain range (as happened to my in-laws). Coase would have pointed out that the situation could have been efficiently resolved had my in-laws offered payment to bribe the neighbors into not building the garage (or, assuming my in-laws owned the property right to the view, the neighbors bribed my in-laws for the right to build).

Apparently in Utah, the property right belongs to anyone who decides to build something, no matter whose view is obstructed.

Comment by Carl Morris
2013-09-04 07:57:00

Apparently in Utah, the property right belongs to anyone who decides to build something, no matter whose view is obstructed.

In rural places where pretty much every direction is an interesting view, people don’t think to obsess over views as much. When outsiders show up obsessing over views it just comes off as odd.

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Comment by Rental Watch
2013-09-03 13:00:25

New LPS Mortgage Monitor out today.

http://www.lpsvcs.com/LPSCorporateInformation/CommunicationCenter/DataReports/MortgageMonitor/201307MortgageMonitor/MortgageMonitorJuly2013.pdf

CA non-current rate has resumed it’s downward move after last month’s tick up:

May: 6.3%
June: 6.4% (big uptick nationally in delinquencies)
July: 6.1%

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 16:28:02

With foreclosure moratoriums in effect in all 50 states(yeah… california too), of course non-current mortgages are ignored.

 
 
Comment by michael
2013-09-03 13:49:50

russia is sending two boats filled with boots to syria.

Comment by phony scandals
2013-09-03 15:56:21

Thank God those boats aren’t filled with soldiers.

Comment by michael
2013-09-03 16:47:16

lol…nahhh…just there sons and daughters.

 
 
Comment by Northeastener
2013-09-03 23:05:12

Bah, it’s only a couple of amphibious assault ships with 400 Russian marines on board… what harm could they do?

 
 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 15:00:43

But look at the view of the ocean….

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101004535

“Comply with costly new federal construction guidelines or prepare to pay annual flood insurance rates that could top $20,000.”

Hmmm… $200K to lift the house up onto pilings, or $20K a year for flood insurance.

And this one for Housing Analyst:

“Though FEMA eased the rebuilding requirements for his neighborhood in June, the value of Thompson’s home has plummeted from around $400,000 to $10,000, according to a county tax assessment. He is contemplating using his flood insurance payments to pay off his mortgage, tear his home down and leave. The storm’s aftermath, Thompson said, has left him financially “dead” and his dreams of retirement postponed. “

Comment by Pete
2013-09-03 15:18:23

OK, but what has all this got to do with Syria?

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-09-03 15:40:05

what has all this got to do with Syria?

Are you Syrias??

 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2013-09-03 16:00:31

LOL

Too true.

Out of the 260something posts so far today, I count 80 of them under the post about war protesters.

Another 7 about gun laws,

I get the general economics discussion as housing price bubble effects, and is effect by, the general economy. However, 1/3rd of the posts about Syria and whether we should/should not launch a half dozen Tomahawks becomes a bit much.

Comment by goon squad
2013-09-03 17:13:45

Bits. Bucket.

If our host Ben Jones didn’t want it, he would block those posts.

Ben owns this, we are all just guests at this party …

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 17:40:47

And it isn’t really that much trouble to skip over posts you don’t want to take the time to read, is it?

For instance, I regularly do so when you turn the discussion over to the topic of trade deficits.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2013-09-03 18:12:26

Trade deficits don’t matter. Most of what we export is priceless.

 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 19:21:41

“Most of what we export is priceless.”

That’d be military hardware?

 
 
 
 
Comment by phony scandals
2013-09-03 16:09:25

“Based on an early map released by FEMA in mid-December, Marlo Lutz, 44, and her husband, Darrin, 47, decided to elevate their two-floor Toms River home to 13 feet on pillars and piers, a $65,000 investment that required cashing in a college fund and raiding savings.”

“I’ll never have to worry again when there’s a storm,” Marlo said. “Everything about it is just going to be better for us.”

Hey Mario, you ever seen the center of a Cat 5 path? I have and if the center of one of them comes your way and you can go ahead and worry cause the pillars and piers that hold up your two-floor Toms River home may still be there but your two-floor Toms River home won’t be.

 
 
Comment by michael
2013-09-03 16:04:15

Critical Thoughts by Michael (handy)

During the American Civil War President Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation fortifying the War’s purpose as to the destruction of slavery. With one brilliant step Lincoln stripped the South of any potential foreign aid. Slavery is an abomination…a crime against humanity…why would any foreign nation help sustain the South for that purpose?

Why couldn’t the current president use a similar strategy? It is a fact that chemical weapons and their use are an abomination…a crime against humanity. It is also a fact that chemical weapons were used and that mostly innocent civilians were killed.

Why unilaterally condemn the act as being ordered by the Assad regime when your own intelligence agency stated there is no smoking gun? Why not show leadership in condemning their use…calling an emergency Security Council meeting and enlisting the aid of the Russians and Chinese in discovering their origin? Why send out your representative so quickly pounding the war drums and uniting Russia and the Chinese against the U.S.?

Perhaps a rush to judgment? Perhaps they do not want to know who performed the attack. Perhaps they are fools and empty suits who have no business in foreign affairs?

To quote a Detective Alonzo Harris form the movie “Training Day”…”this shit is chess it ain’t checkers.”

To unite the Chinese and Russians against the U.S. was a huge foreign policy mistake. One that will go down in the history books as Obama’s biggest blunder.

I “Hope” that Obama backs down regardless of his credibility or ours as Americans and “Hope”fully it is just another of his blunders…and not the beginnings of WWIII.

And as an aside…I heard that Kerry was in front of Congress today talking about America’s word. I have news for Secretary Kerry….the U.S.’s word is the U.S. dollar…and the rest of the world….as illustrated by the lack of any coalition against an attack on the Syrian regime…is evidence that the rest of world is getting pretty sick of us printing a shit ton of it to buy their oil.

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 16:37:38

California Notice Of Defaults Up A Whopping 38.7% In Second Quarter

http://www.ksby.com/news/california-foreclosures-rise-in-2nd-quarter/#_

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 17:38:50

How is this even possible? I thought California had a Homeowner’s Bill of Rights which basically made foreclosure actions henceforth illegal.

 
 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-09-03 16:45:21

You all missed the propaganda and evisceration of a housing liar on bloomy today. Marc Fleming, some realtor-esque sounding dope from Corelogic got the smack down by P. Fox.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 19:17:50

“Corelogic”

They’ve been real estate whores since day 1. I once called up a guy on the telephone who worked for them — Christopher Cagan — to discuss the bubble situation. By the end of the conversation, he dismissively informed me that I was a ‘bubble head’ and terminated the call. (This was way back in 2005, before the ginormous crash we collectively predicted — LOLOLOLOLOZZZZZS!!!!)

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 19:44:25

He’s kind of a religious zealot — actually the perfect personality type to be a true believer in the housing bubble’s immortality.

 
 
 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 18:42:43

Are home prices in your nabe getting too low?

Then why not apply to divert some of the Treasury’s foreclosure prevention funds to supply limitation activity (aka demolition)?

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 19:06:34

Goddamn rules don’t mean squat.

States divert foreclosure prevention money to demolitions
Five homes in Detroit were demolished last week, using money originally intended to help people avoid foreclosure.
by Kate Davidson
Marketplace for Tuesday, September 3, 2013

The Treasury Department has changed the rules on a program meant to help people hit by the housing crisis stay in their homes, allowing states to use some money from the $7.6 billion foreclosure prevention program to demolish homes instead.

The first five houses came down last week, in the Marygrove neighborhood of Detroit.

“It’s a prayer being answered,” says Velma Lewis, who moved to the neighborhood almost 30 years ago. Back then, the streets weren’t dotted with abandoned homes. No one kicked in her door if she left town, like they do now.

“When I moved here, it was a beautiful neighborhood. I never thought that I would retire to this here. So I am elated,” she says.

Michigan and Ohio have changed their contracts with the Treasury Department so they can use foreclosure prevention funds for home demolition. Michigan has diverted a $100 million into demolition. That’s a fifth of its money from the Hardest Hit program, part of the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP. The money will be used to tear down 7,000 vacant homes.

“Here we were assisting homeowners to stay in their homes, but then, many of these communities had so many blighted properties that homeowners would throw their arms up and say, ‘I’m never gonna get value out of this house, why am I doing this?’” says Mary Townley, director of homeownership at the Michigan State Housing Development Authority.

Michigan officials say blight leads to abandonment. It invites crime and drives down property values in neighborhoods where the 13,000 homeowners they’ve already helped are trying to hold on. They say demolishing derelict homes is foreclosure prevention.

But demolition wasn’t the intent of the Hardest Hit program, says housing activist Bruce Marks of the Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America.

“It is a matter of priorities,” he says. “And the first priority is to save the many tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of homeowners who want to keep their homes, who want to stay in their homes, who do not want to be foreclosed on and to be forced out.”

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 19:42:40

“No one kicked in her door if she left town, like they do now.”

Sounds like the problem in Detroit isn’t an excess of vacant homes.

Rather it sounds like a problem of too many criminals and not enough police.

 
 
 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 18:57:07

Now this is utterly fascinating. Would like the resident engineers’ opinions on whether this is merely for propaganda show (related reference: Ronald Raygun’s “Star Wars” initiative), or is the measure expected to yield a real safety benefit?

Wouldn’t a 9.0+ magnitude earthquake turn an ice wall into a slushie? (Not to suggest another one of them will happen over the expected future lifetime of the planned ice wall…) But perhaps a shattered ice wall would still serve a useful purpose, provided it was adequately encased to prevent its being washed out to sea with a future tsunami.

3 September 2013 Last updated at 09:06 ET
Fukushima leaks: Japan pledges $470m for ‘ice wall’
Joanna Gosling explains where the leaks are coming from

Japan is to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into building a frozen wall around the Fukushima nuclear plant to stop leaks of radioactive water.

Government spokesman Yoshihide Suga said an estimated 47bn yen ($473m, £304m) would be allocated.

The leaks were getting worse and the government “felt it was essential to become involved to the greatest extent possible”, Mr Suga said.

The plant was crippled by the 2011 earthquake and tsunami.

The disaster knocked out cooling systems to the reactors, three of which melted down.

Water is now being pumped in to cool the reactors, but storing the resultant large quantities of radioactive water has proved a challenge for plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco).

 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 20:31:23

Riddle me this.

Amtrak round trip from San Diego to NYC and back…

Departing trip:
2:40 pm, Fri, Oct 4, 2013
Arrive:
4:50 pm, Mon, Oct 7, 2013

Return trip:
6:45 am, Fri, Oct 11, 2013
Arrive:
12:35 pm, Mon, Oct 14, 2013

Round trip train fare
$571.00

Southwest Air from San Diego to NYC and back…

Departing trip:
Oct 4
12:10 PM Depart San Diego, CA (SAN) on Southwest Airlines
11:05 PM Arrive in New York (LaGuardia), NY (LGA)

Return trip:
Oct 11
01:05 PM Depart New York (LaGuardia), NY (LGA) on AirTran
07:35 PM Arrive in San Diego, CA (SAN)

Round trip air fare
$194.00 + $190.00 = $384.00

Questions:
1) How can it take twelve times as long to travel by train, yet cost substantially less to travel by plane?

2) Isn’t it less expensive to move metal objects on the ground along established tracks than to keep metal objects aloft over the same distance?

3) Why would anyone in their right mind ever travel from coast to coast by train, given the option of flying?

Comment by Pete
2013-09-03 20:53:12

“3) Why would anyone in their right mind ever travel from coast to coast by train, given the option of flying?”

Because you’re not in a hurry and are up for a ride to see the country.
In ‘07, the wife and I took the Zephyr from Davis to Salt Lake City for the hell of it. If we had more time and money, we would have done the whole route to Chicago and back. The train seats are WAY more comfortable than airplane seats, and if you get a roomette, the dining car is free. Not for everyone, but if you have some time to kill and want to see “the homeland”, I recommend it.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 20:57:59

“Because you’re not in a hurry and are up for a ride to see the country.”

That’s quaint and totally fine, but I am still mystified about how flight can be cheaper than land travel.

Comment by AmazingRuss
2013-09-03 21:36:14

You pay extra to not get rapey scanned.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 22:35:21

How does that work? Is there a version of train travel where you don’t pay extra and you do get rapey scanned?

 
 
Comment by Pete
2013-09-03 22:19:52

“That’s quaint and totally fine, but I am still mystified about how flight can be cheaper than land travel.”

Speed and # of passengers, I’d guess. Turnaround time and a full load makes for a lower fare than a slow train. And maybe some opt for the more expensive train simply for the quaint factor.

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Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 22:29:52

“Turnaround time and a full load makes for a lower fare than a slow train.”

I suppose crew costs are much higher for a three-day train ride than for a six-hour plane flight. Not sure about fuel costs…trains certainly weigh more than airplanes, but once they are moving, I can’t imagine they burn energy at the rate a plane’s jet engines do.

 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2013-09-03 22:50:35

“…a full load makes for a lower fare than a slow train…”

I commented on the full load issue to one of my lunchmates at work today. He mentioned he has ridden trains along the Eastern Seaboard (NYC area, perhaps?) which can spontaneously adjust the number of cars at any given stop to the number of riders.

I suspect Amtrak trains don’t do this, and instead run with underutilized capacity. This is just my hunch; if correct, I’m curious why dynamic capacity adjustment is not practiced in case it is a viable option. I’m pretty sure the airlines dynamically adjust their schedules to keep their planes running full, based on this frequent flyer’s personal experience.

 
Comment by Northeastener
2013-09-03 23:17:55

You’re looking in the wrong part of the economy… it isn’t because of fuel cost and consumption, rates of pay for flight crew, etc…

It is a function of a lack of competition in the rail passenger space vs market competition in the airline space. Train fair will cost what it costs because you are subsidizing a number of lines that aren’t profitable and Amtrak is essentially a GSC or government sponsored corporation with no competition. Of course, there is no competition because the airplane and automobile made passenger trains obsolete, but that is another issue.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by cactus
2013-09-04 09:29:03

I’m out good luck to these guys

“Last-minute buyers piled into Apache calls yesterday, looking for a rally by the end of this week.

More than 5,000 Weekly 87.50 calls, which expire this Friday, traded in a strong buying pattern yesterday, according to optionMONSTER’s Heat Seeker tracking system. Most of the action took place in the final 30 minutes of the session, led by a print of 3,566 that went for $0.16. These are clearly new positions, as the strike’s open interest was just 352 contracts before the session began.

These long calls lock in the price where traders can buy the stock no matter how far it might rise. But the contracts will expire worthless if shares remain below $87.50. (See our Education section)

APA fell 1.04 percent yesterday to close at $84.79. The natural-gas and oil producer gapped up from below $79 on Friday after announcing that China’s Sinopec will pay $3.1 billion for a 33 percent stake in the company’s Egyptian operations.

The name was upgraded to “buy” from “neutral” by Japanese financial firm Mizuho on Monday, and Canaccord raised its price target for the stock to $113 from $106 yesterday.

Total option volume in the name topped 18,600 contracts yesterday, double its daily average for the last month.

 
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