Bits Bucket for November 1, 2013
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
About Me
Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
To donate by mail, or to otherwise contact this blogger, please send emails to: thehousingbubble@gmail.com
PayPal is a secure online payment method which accepts ALL major credit cards.
Links
-
April 2025 M T W T F S S « Sep 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Photo Submission: hbbphotos@gmail.com
View the HBB Photo Gallery *updated 4/13/2008
“Houses depreciate rapidly and are always a loss>”
Of course they are…. if you’re honest about it.
After “throwing money away on rent” every month I have so much money left over I don’t know where to throw it.
Why buy when you can rent for half the cost?
After “throwing money away on rent” every month I have so much money left over I don’t know where to throw it.
I rented for years and years and invested and saved so well (Thank you God.) that I paid for a house cash (literally with banknotes) that now I don’t have to pay rent or a mortgage.
So I didn’t throw away money on rent or on a house. It’s not all or nothing. It’s not all “your either with me or against me”.
I scooped a dead poisonous jungle centipede out of a friends pool 20 min ago.
Never saw one before. Ugly SOB’s and dangerous.
“Borrowing to pay for a rapidly depreciating asset like a house at a massively inflated price puts you in a hole that you’ll never escape from.”
Ever.
“I paid for a house cash (literally with banknotes) that now I don’t have to pay rent or a mortgage.”
So did we, Rio. We practiced investing and delayed gratification as well. Nice feeling, isn’t it!
Say, have you learned the Samba?
I was watching Diana Krall live in Rio video, and Brazil looks beautiful. Both Brazil and Argentina are on my bucket list.
And now you shop at the dollar store.
Smart move Donkey.
Say, have you learned the Samba?
Yea. Kinda. lol.
Nice feeling, isn’t it!
Sure is!
HA
Always have been a value shopper. When we were north of $165K yr we shopped the Dollar Store sector. What’s your point?
“Always have been a value shopper.”
How can that be when you paid a 220% premium for a depreciating shack?
.308
5.56 for half the cost.
“And always remember……. Depreciating assets like a house always represents a loss. The losses are magnified tremendously when the asset is financed.”
Exactly.
5.56? Won’t argue. They both have their roles.
.22 for the thrifty is enough in most cases.
Why are the NATO rounds so expensive?
It’s all relative. But I think people are still stocking up on the common stuff whenever the price dips at all. And I wouldn’t be surprised if government owned military surplus that used to hit the market almost frictionlessly is being mostly held off the market now.
Why are the NATO rounds so expensive?
* More AR owners = more demand.
* Hoarding = more demand.
* Manufacturers not investing in additional fixed capacity/capital investments due to future government regulation/interference in the ammo market = fixed supply.
* Increased raw material and input costs = increased cost
* Inflation = increased cost
* Price gouging by dealers = increased cost
FWIW, CCI 500 round .22LR packs at Dick’s Sporting were $25 last year. Today it’s $40 for the same box, if you can find any. It’s not just NATO rounds…
Wouldn’t surprise me in the least if the latest TSA-shooting at LAX begets another Leftist-Progressive push for 2A-limitations, AWB’s, and civilian disarmament. If so, expect ammo prices to go full-retard in 3, 2, 1…
500 round .22LR packs at Dick’s Sporting were $25 last year.
I was getting them on sale (Remmington I think) for $10 at Big 5 about 7-8 years ago I think.
$10 then to $40 now. Is that possible?
$10 then to $40 now. Is that possible?
Yes. See my post above, but ammo prices have gone crazy these last few years and are significantly more expensive then 7 or 8 years ago.
Wouldn’t surprise me in the least if the latest TSA-shooting at LAX begets another Leftist-Progressive push for 2A-limitations, AWB’s, and civilian disarmament. If so, expect ammo prices to go full-retard in 3, 2, 1…
Every shooting does, whether any of the proposed changes would have prevented it or not. Don’t know any details about today’s event yet…
“After “throwing money away on rent” every month I have so much money left over I don’t know where to throw it.”
I know that problem. My bonds income covers the rent on my Arizona place. But I’m reinvesting that income into the very same bonds. It just gets better over the years!
In 2002 I was paying $2600 per month rent on two places but my bond income was less than $100. Those were tough times. Now my rent is $2300 per month total. Eventually my plan is to just pay rent on one place and that is Arizona. But arguably I’m in a better situation that I can cover nearly half my monthly rent with my bond income. I did not even discuss my dividends I get from my stock funds - those are reinvested.
Rio, I did not see your web cam show on Monday. I was in conference all day. I wish I had seen your dust up for HA…..
________________________________________________
“I think you missed it Jingle. I was told you’d donate $500 to Ben’s blog if I proved I lived in Brazil. Posting a pic don’t mean squat so I told the Blog on Monday I’d stand in front of a Rio live webcam at 2:30 pm. I’d wear a green Stones shirt with the big red lip logo. I’d have on a white, wide brim Panama hat and I’d be pulling a black carry-on. I did it. I stood there for about 5 min and waved to the cam about 3 times. Ben J. confirmed it. Case closed for any rational person.”
_______________________________________________
Your subsequent agreement has much more meaning to me anyway….
“….if you send the original $500 (not an extra one) I’ll even not respond to HA until Jan 1. (unless he refers or mentions me). After Jan 1, I will make an effort to respond to him much less. (unless he refers or mentions me)…”
_________________________________________
Rio, I also agree with the comment you made below:
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-10-31 10:39:30
HA’s message is overshadowed by rudeness, crudeness and hatefulness imo.
_________________________________________________
HA stated yesterday my in-laws “throw feces over their fence into their neighbor’s yard” because that is what people do in California. He is very crude and sophomoric and is ruining the beauty the discussions this blog once fostered. The statements that “all Realtors are liars” may be funny once, but it is so tiresome now. He statement that housing “Always Depreciates” (given his narrow definition of depreciation), is meaningless. He misleads, bullies and irritates. It is a shame and repulsive.
So Rio, here is the $500 for the HBB and Ben Jones. He deserves it and you set it up. I enjoy supporting this blog. If I ever get to Brazil I will let you know and maybe we can have a HBB reunion!
Ben’s observations and courage to call the housing bubble in 2005-2006 have done more for my net worth than any other single person. I have supported the HBB for a long time and plan to do so for years to come…..I just hope the blog doesn’t continue to get more repulsive and crude and we can get back to intelligent discussions about housing.
California Housing Demand Collapses; Falls Every Year since 2009
http://picpaste.com/pics/7fd31796b699806f95d1a54295e70f7b.1383229752.png
Collapsing demand, massively inflated prices, a moribund economy.
Get what you can get for your house in CA…. because it’s going to be less later for years to come.
I agree Jingle…Everyone just ignore the twerp…
+1 scdave.
…and it is helpful to remember:
Burdbrain ® talks to himself with many names: RAL, HA, Strawberrypicker, Goon, Suzy Orman, etc.
“With 25 million excess, empty and defaulted houses in the US, 4 million of which are in California, there is plenty of “housing supply”.
Ask yourself this question and be prepared to respond as you will be asked by us;
Are you an agent of price fixing and housing crime or are you an agent of truth?
Get a room, u 2.
U2 has a room….in Dublin. They perform there tomorrow.
“People have learned that a highly leveraged, illiquid, high-transaction cost “asset” requiring regular annual maintenance of thousands of dollars is not worth the risk”
You better believe it.
Goon is most definitely NOT HA. Goon has a sense of humor and writes some hilarious parodies. Plus, he lives in Colorado. HA writes like he lives in his mom’s basement.
Goon has a sense of humor and writes some hilarious parodies
+1
BWHAHAHAHAHAHA
The most uniformed person in blog history makes another uniformed post.
I stand corrected on Goon. Thank you MC.
You are most welcome, JM. It does get hard to tell the players around here, what with all the pseudo-pseudonyms. I happen to appreciate goon squad’s very tongue-in-cheek style (even when he’s needling me about the Onwentsia Club–inside joke) and hate to see him mistaken for a troll.
Uniform? I don’t need no stinkin’ uniform! BTW, just what is a “uniformed post”?
So HA, you imply that you ARE goon squad. If so, I am shattered. Simply shattered.
“the Onwentsia Club–inside joke”
What’s the joke? That you think you could get into the Onwentsia Club?
As I posted yesterday, my late Uncle Goon was born into the lucky sperm club and after graduating from Princeton class of ‘42 (doubt they took SATs back then, probably had a few telegrams of recommendation sent to get him in) and serving in World War II, established himself with younger Aunt Goon at the apex of Chicago north shore society, which would appropriately include membership at the Onwentsia Club.
So…you aren’t HA, are you goon? Right? Right?
Read through yesterday’s Bits this morning and saw your post. I could probably figure out who your aunt is with a bit of sleuthing. Especially if the Onwentsia membership roster could be hacked. No, the heights of society are not something to which I aspire. Very relieved that I no longer have to attend hospital benefits. The number of causes for which people find an excuse to dress up and get their picture in the newspaper is mind-boggling. Not my thing at all.
Compared with some of their friends (i.e. the dinner party in Lake Bluff) they were downright lower upper-class. Aunt Goon was/is the social climber. Uncle Goon didn’t really care for it, but did what was expected of him. I can’t remember what his actual job was, but it involved taking the train (in a private car with coffee and newspapers provided, and scotch on the way home) from Lake Forest down to the Loop every weekday. Although they had a very large and expensive Jaguar for keeping up appearances, when driving alone Uncle Goon preferred his VW Rabbit.
Everyone loved UncleGoon.
I’m HA? Awesome, now Rio has to not reply to me also!
The liar doesn’t have the fortitude to ignore you.
This is awesome. Ben gets 500 and The Child can’t respond to anything for months. Thank you Jinglefraud for silencing him.
Of course, I know there is no way The Child will keep up his end. He’ll just keep up his childlike blather and rankings but claim he isn’t responding to HA or claim he was referred to. Might as well just call it now because that is the way it is going to play out. He cannot “not respond.”
If you take on mortgage debt at current massively inflated housing prices, you’ll enslave yourself for the rest of your life.
“Debt is bondage.”~ Suze Orman, May 11, 2013
Don’t Be A Debt Donkey®
http://imageshack.us/a/img688/2484/40973600.jpg
The Child can’t respond to anything for months. Thank you Jinglefraud for silencing him.
I can respond to you straw4brains. And now I’ll have more time to.
This is awesome. Ben gets 500
Awesome! Thanks Jingle!
Now we are up to $2,000 that JingleGal is supposedly forking out to Ben for strokes from the Mango guy. Cheerleading by Polly, Oxide and Inchby. Such a parade. One can only watch so much of this.
Blue Skye
I contributed to Ben’s blog long before anyone you mentioned above ever posted here. Polly, Oxide and InchBy are awesome and I will continue to contribute here because Ben’s blog is awesome.
I would have posted a contribution anyway, just as I have for many years. Having this contribution counter HA’s crass, rude, crude, spam is just an extra benefit!
No worries here. I provide you an example post from 2007…
____________________________________________
Comment by Paladin
2007-01-24 04:46:31
Mortgage Fraud Web Site Progress: The Address is Secure
We have the web site up and running now at http://www.paladinreports.com . You may visit it to see the home page, if you like. This plan is starting to come together. We have some other addresses, but they are tied up in a snag. Several of you are very anxious to report data, but we do not yet have the database reporting system completed. This project continues to eat time at a greater rate than Ownit Mortgage’s investors are eating “buy back” home loans……….
http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/?p=2227
_________________________
So you see Blue Skye, we have been doing good and doing well by Ben for many years! Enjoy your weekend. Jingle
Awwwww…. Poor thing.
That’s just the thing Jingle, I don’t believe any of what you say. I don’t believe you just gave Ben $2,000. I don’t believe you are Paladin. I read his posts with great interest and you have an entirely different voice. Rio likes you, need I say more? I don’t believe you are even a guy, mr. mytummyhurts, much less a crusader. This internet forum thing has some advantages, it has some disadvantages.
If you are such a big contributor, I’d appreciate it if Ben would stand for you. That would shut me up about it. I wouldn’t want to discourage you.
“I would have posted a contribution anyway, just as I have for many years….” Sure, except that your ship didn’t come in, right? “Sorry Ben” and all that.
And I don’t believe the lie you told yesterday that you are moving on and away from the HBB.
Who’s worse?
Someone who brags about how much they makes or they’re worth?
OR
Someone who brags about how much money they give to a cause?
The worst? Someone who just freeloads and never contributes!
Blue, here is the PayPal receipt. Ben can confirm all my contributions over the years if he so chooses.
You sent a payment of $500.00 USD to Benjamin Jones. Nov 1, 2013 07:03:22 PDT
Receipt No:2171-4774-1039-8647
Hello Jingle Male,
This charge will appear on your credit card statement as payment to PAYPAL *BEN262.
Merchant information:
Benjamin Jones
ben262@hotmail.com
Instructions to merchant:
None provided
Shipping information
Jingle Male
United States Shipping method
Not specified
Description Unit price Qty Amount
Donations For The Housing Bubble Blog $500.00 USD 1 $500.00 USD
Total: $500.00 USD
Receipt No: 2171-4774-1039-8647
Please keep this receipt number for future reference. You’ll need it if you contact customer service at Benjamin Jones or PayPal.
Enjoy your weekend. Jingle
Like I said, I’d drop it if our gracious host Ben vouches for you, not if you write up your own voucher. BTW, there is supposed to be $2,000 donated by you in the past week.
What are you saying? Those who don’t brag and post receipt like you don’t give?
A fool was parted with his money for what? Pride?
That’s pretty low even for you.
Now we are up to $2,000 that JingleGal is supposedly forking out to Ben
Your out of your mind. The deal with me was $500. Not 2K.
You have issues with math even.
Thanks Jingle! I’m impressed.
A fool was parted with his money for what? Pride?
For a good cause.
You dolt’s got punked.
Hard.
Sore loosers.
i’m glad i have not idea what this is all about.
I’ve been driving west all day and just stopped for lunch. Yes, JM donated $500. Thanks JM.
I’m getting back on the road in a minute and will moderate as best I can.
Well butter my buns and call me a biscuit!
I’ll take your word then on the grand from a few days ago (from the house sale profits).
You are welcome Ben. I have really enjoyed this blog and your work for the last 7 years.
Blue, no hard feelings. We are all in this world together. Negotiating a way thru the mess is clearly impacted by criminals and politicians (often the same people, but not always). It is tough to tell who is whom sometimes.
I was literally saved from making a big mistake in 2005-2006 (buying a new house). I was able to bank some money and used that to buy into what I saw as the market bottom in 2009 & 2010.
My perspective of the market is quite different from Ben’s (and probably yours) these days. I feel it is important to put that view on the blog, just I feel it is important to see the views of others here.
I now believe we are in an upward very long term correction and I have invested accordingly. The fact Ben continues to point out China is bubbly, Australia is bubbly, England is bubbly and other areas are bubbly helps to keep me hedged and diversified.
I did sell an investment house a few months ago and made a nice return, which I shared 1% with Ben. I did post as Paladin and create the web site in 2007. In fact, Ben referred Alyssa Katz to me in 2009, which is why Paladin and Lincoln, CA are included in her book. She also wrote about LeHigh Acres, which is where I visited a couple of weeks ago when I saw it driving along the FL freeway. LeHigh is what started this whole thread with HA, because he called me a liar and said to post a photo to prove I was really there (which I did after I returned home).
So there you have it in a nutshell…..
Very gracious of you Jingle.
“I now believe we are in an upward very long term correction….”
Apparently we have much to discuss. Another time though.
JingleBalls is in for the surpise of his life.
Who’s worse?
Someone who brags about how much they makes or they’re worth?
OR
Someone who brags about how much money they give to a cause?
It depends on the numbers involved. If someone makes a lot or is worth a lot, bragging would be pretty tacky. If someone doesn’t make much or have much, bragging would just be odd.
On the other hand, if someone donates a few hundred to the HBB, that could be a good thing. It could encourage others to do likewise.
so which one of you were one of the 6 people that signed up for obamacare of the first day?
I dunno, but who would want to enter all their personal information into that website knowing it is not secure?
there is supposed to be $2,000 donated by you in the past week.
$500 not 2k. Where you coming from?
Was that 6 people that signed up through the federal website or does it include all of the state websites?
And it wasn’t me. I am waiting to see what my employer’s insurance will be, which I find out in mid-November.
Well, the top of the blog has an ad for immigration reform, with some hard eyed, stern looking young woman in front of the American flag telling me to urge the House to pass the turd. No thanks.
If you don’t want your neighborhood full of households with 20 people living in a three-bedroom house with six vehicles parked on the lawn and a yard full of toys and dirty diapers and garbage, you are a racis.
Bad racis, bad.
That is what 50 / ft2 and 2000 for a lot buys!!!
Because realtors tell you that the cost of a house cannot be evaluated using math?
Ruh-roh…
http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_24428595/cuts-food-stamps-hitting-millions-californians-start-friday
It’s a good thing there has been no inflation in food prices in the past decade, otherwise these cuts might really sting.
Just wash it down with a 59-ounce “half-gallon” of orange juice and a 14-ounce “pound” of coffee and it’s all good bro.
They don’t buy orange juice. They buy orange flavored “drink,” the kind without the Skittles.
For reference, the labels in order of juice content are: juice > cocktail > beverage > drink.
I remember the first time I tried Sunny Delight. I spat it out.
When I wuz a pup, I liked Tang. The drink of the astronauts!
Tang
Oh yeah. You’ve got to admit “The drink of the astronauts!” was great marketing. And us little pups, we drank it up.
Had fun with the tot’ers last night. We had 75 treaters and most were adorable. My witch mask sacred the little ones. I felt kind of bad.
SunnyD has 5% juice, which I think qualifies it as a “punch.”
oxide
I appreciate the 5% info.
Marketers for processed foods are criminals, imho.
Uh oh, it looks as if the sale of lotto tickets may end up taking a hit.
Its hard not to get angry at utter freakin morons daily.
Instead of doing 1 thing to cut down on abuse like lets limit FS use on meat fish poultry and pork to $4.99 lb maximum… they cut everyone’s benefits.
So now they have fodder for those “Oh the children are going to starve” stories.
I think that after middle class families had to tighten their belts when the SS tax holiday ended, that there will be little sympathy for FS families having to tighten their belts.
Posted with no comment. It just speaks for itself.
Except that the FSA votes.
——————–
Our family will lose $44 in food stamps
CNN Money | November 1, 2013 | Jennifer Liberto
Starting Friday, Joyce Lewis and her family will lose $44 from their monthly food stamp benefits.
The food stamps buy a lot of economical rice-based meals for the family — four adults and a grandson who live with Lewis in Spring Hill, Florida.
Occasionally, when her grocery store is running a deal, Lewis indulges the family with spare ribs or chicken.
The benefit — totaling $800 for four adults — never lasts Lewis and her family a full month.
“When I get to the end, we always run out. I try to go to all the food pantries,” Lewis said.
Her adult daughters who live with her aren’t in a position to work — one is a new mom, and another is due to give birth soon.
I did the one-month Food Stamp experiment back in 2006, before it became fashionable for politicians. Could I eat good nutrition on $117/month, which was roughly the benefit for one person at a time. I didn’t just calculate it, I bought the food and cooked it.
Result: I went 10 bucks over and was a little low on protein and calories, but it was marginally doable, IF you watch the sales. I cooked for only one person, allowed some Lean Cuisines for lunch, and only did it for a month. If I cooked big batches for a family of four and could stock up for big quantities for several months, I could have been more efficient.
I think I still have the Excel spreadsheet that I used to calculated the nutrition.
I did the one-month Food Stamp experiment back in 2006, before it became fashionable for politicians.
That and food stamps was never designed to provided ALL the food a family needs.
It was supposed to be an assistance program. Not sole source provider.
But the free sh*t army wants more. And they vote.
“Her adult daughters who live with her aren’t in a position to work — one is a new mom, and another is due to give birth soon.”
Are these women blessed with immaculate conception? No fathers?!
What i am thinking is baby daddie sit in class 20 hours a week and get your GED and job training and a job.
Or we will terminate parental rights for the both of you. We need adoptable babies to give to people with the money and good parenting skills, NOW!
And there are a Millions people desperate to have kids but something in the plumbing doesn’t work right…so they go overseas to adopt.
PS had a GF who worked in Foster care and adoptions and yes its damn near impossible to get black people to adopt someone else’s kids….that’s why grandma winds up with them…when was the last time you heard a black woman say lets have 1 or 2 and adopt 1 or 2?
rms
I caught that too. Evidently Joyce Lewis missed the boat on raising responsible functioning adults. So, which daughter is the president of knocked up and single? lol
Generational Poverty, I know from. Family patterns can be broken. I did it.
Realtors are liars.
“Restitution Fund for Carmel Realtor Fraud Case Heads to Court”
http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/blogs/news_blog/article_49bf6e94-a8c5-57d8-b1b4-412abf246f24.html
“The Fed’s Housing Empire is Crumbling - Pending Home Sales Plunge in September”
http://www.dailypaul.com/303864/the-feds-housing-empire-is-crumbling-pending-home-sales-plunge-in-september
Not that housing wasn’t crumbling before with housing demand at 14 lows… now the collapse is in full motion.
Washington Post - Homeland Security workers routinely boost pay with unearned overtime, report says:
“Federal employees at the Department of Homeland Security call it the “candy bowl,” a pot of overtime money they have long dipped into to pad their pay even if they haven’t earned it, whistleblowers say.
This practice, which can add up to 25 percent to a paycheck, has become so routine over the last generation that it’s often held out as a perk when government managers try to recruit new employees, according to these accounts.”
Commonplace. There’s usually an overtime pool in those types of private contractor contracts. The solicitations usually allow for a certain % of overruns on labor. People know what it is and abuse it.
“But… but… private contractors save us money”
52.243-1 Changes — Fixed-Price
As prescribed in 43.205(a)(1), insert the following clause. The 30-day period may be varied according to agency procedures.
CHANGES — FIXED-PRICE (AUG 1987)
(c) The Contractor must assert its right to an adjustment under this clause within 30 days from the date of receipt of the written order. However, if the Contracting Officer decides that the facts justify it, the Contracting Officer may receive and act upon a proposal submitted before final payment of the contract.
We’ve known forever that the Military industrial complex rips us off. They’ve been talking about 500 hammers since I was a kid. Neither side wants to do anything about it.
Now we also have the Border Industrial Complex, where immigration reform is going to make many rich. They will sell overpriced and unnecessary equipment and services to the government wasting many billions on these toughen up the border with technology measures.
We live in an “I got mines” world of kleptocrats.
Washington Post - Hagel addresses Anti-Defamation League at invitation of group’s director:
“Less than a year after some pro-Israel groups tried to torpedo his nomination to lead the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel gave a keynote address Thursday evening in New York to the Anti-Defamation League, an influential Jewish civil rights group.
Pentagon officials said Hagel was invited to speak by Abraham H. Foxman, the national director of the league. Foxman was among Hagel’s toughest critics during his acrimonious confirmation process, calling his record on Israel and the U.S.-Israel relationship “at best disturbing and at worst, very troubling.”
The ADL is a criminal terrorist organization. See also:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/06/12/adl-spies/
The ADL are a statist, anti-2A group of grabbers masquerading as a civil rights organization:
http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2013/10/31/from-wyoming-gun-owners/
How many animals can you find in this picture?
http://www.picpaste.com/IMG_20131101_073632_274-gTdl0nOp.jpg
I see 12.
None! All I see is a post-card, tacked to a cork-board, which is screwed into the wall.
I think my flu medication has narcotics in it.
Purple Drank?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=purple%20drank
From yesterday:
Rio, if you promise never to respond to HA again, I will post $500 to Ben tomorrow morning
I think you missed it Jingle. I was told by someone on this blog that you said you’d donate $500 to Ben’s blog if I showed I lived in Brazil. Posting a pic don’t mean squat so I told the Blog on Monday I’d stand in front of a Rio live webcam at 2:30 pm. I’d wear a green Stones shirt with the big red lip logo. I’d have on a white, wide brim Panama hat and I’d be pulling a black carry-on. I did it. I stood there for about 5 min and waved to the cam about 3 times. Ben J. confirmed it . Case closed for any rational person.
So I did it. I think you missed it. Now about not responding to HA, if you send the original $500 (not an extra one) I’ll even not respond to HA until Jan 1. (unless he refers to me or mentions me). After Jan 1, I will make an effort to respond to him much less. (unless he refers to me or mentions me)
OK? Thanks for your support of this blog! You rock!
(And we all should get back to pertinent issues and quit beating dead dogs. It bores the he!! out of people.)
Done.
I look forward to a more civil, mature discussion board. Thanks Rio, you rock too! I enjoy a good sport and a good discussion! Have a great weekend.
if you promise never to respond to HA again
Huh?
You ask for Rio “never to respond to HA again”, he counters with an offer of “I’ll even not respond to HA until Jan 1. (unless he refers to me or mentions me)”, and you GO FOR IT???
From “ever” down to two months? With exceptions that allow responses in those two months???
That’s a heckofa bid-ask spread!
“Now why did you pay a massively inflated price for a house…. and then double down on the losses and finance it for decades?”
Good question.
Which begets the question;
Do you really believe wages are going to triple to meet massively inflated housing prices? Especially with the millions of excess empty houses lenders are holding and hoping won’t impact prices? Of course not. Housing prices will continue to fall by two-thirds to meet wages that are still in the 1990’s range.
You ask for Rio “never to respond to HA again”, he counters with an offer of “I’ll even not respond to HA until Jan 1. (unless he refers to me or mentions me)”, and you GO FOR IT???
You don’t get it. The $500 was because I stood in front of a Rio live webcam on Monday to show I was in Brazil. He did not know that I did it yet when he made a second offer.
I just threw some other stuff from his second offer for the heck of it.
Yes, I got a two-fer! Sort of like buying houses in 2009 and 2010. I got two for the price of one!
Rio, it is a pleasure doing business with you in the name of Ben Jones and the HBB. I hope the discussions here can get back to a mature level of discourse about the housing market.
I hope the discussions here can get back to a mature level of discourse about the housing market.
+infinity.
I vote for more smog and contaminated drinking water
Bloomberg - Fracking Limits Weighed in Colorado as Drillers Finance Ad Blitz:
“With three days before the election, an energy trade group has donated about 32 times more than activists in four Colorado communities in a push to persuade residents to vote against limiting oil and gas drilling.
Political issue committees opposing the measures in the four towns made about $606,000 in monetary contributions through mid-October, with about 99 percent from the Denver-based Colorado Oil and Gas Association. That compares with about $18,470 donated by proponents and groups supporting the limits, campaign finance reports show.”
I vote for more smog and contaminated drinking water
Denver wouldn’t be Denver without a good thermal inversion and a nice thick brown cloud to go with it. It isn’t pollution, it’s prosperity, just ask the folks in Beijing, Shanghai and Harbin.
the squadmobiles are coated in a dust layer of ‘prosperity’ two days after washing them
FWIW, the US has supplanted Saudi Arabia as the largest producer of oil and natural gas in the world.
There is a cost to society, but the days of relying on cheap foreign oil and gas development are gone…
“There is a cost to society”
Move those costs to North Dakota. 3 million people live on the Front Range here. We pollute enough (sh*tting in our own nest) without industry making it worse.
Move those costs to North Dakota.
You have pollution on the Front Range so I can drive my Hemi-equipped Jeep on my Boston commute, in traffic, alone every day.
The other way to think of it is I’m helping pay domestic oil and gas workers in CO and ND…
You have pollution on the Front Range so I can drive my Hemi-equipped Jeep on my Boston commute, in traffic, alone every day.
I’ll bet that 400 HP engine and the heavy 4WD system makes a big difference when you’re stuck in bumper to bumper traffic.
I’ll bet that 400 HP engine and the heavy 4WD system makes a big difference when you’re stuck in bumper to bumper traffic.
Nope. But the 4WD makes a ton of difference when it snows, which it does quite often in New England. When I drive my kids in snow and slush, there won’t be any worries.
The 370HP engine certainly helps when merging and passing on the highway, not to mention being able to tow whatever I need it to… boats, campers, trailers and such. Also, coming from a long line of performance-oriented cars, it softens the blow of changing to an SUV for a daily driver.
I like having options, and that’s what I paid for… thank God we have a still have a free-market for most of the auto sector, where participants can decide how to allocate their hard-earned money and reward companies that produce products that consumers are actually willing to pay for.
Well aren’t you quite the player hater despite driving 42 miles each way (per google maps) from Loveland to Broomfield?
Since we’re having a d*ck waving contest about carbon footprints, I like to drive 150 miles roundtrip on a regular basis to go ride on chairlifts powered by electricity from burning coal to ski down hills that won’t have any snow fifty years from now because of the global warming I’m helping create!
Since we’re having a d*ck waving contest about carbon footprints, I like to drive 150 miles roundtrip on a regular basis to go ride on chairlifts powered by electricity from burning coal to ski down hills that won’t have any snow fifty years from now because of the global warming I’m helping create!
LOLZ. Classic HBB!
It isn’t pollution, it’s prosperity, just ask the folks in Beijing, Shanghai and Harbin.
And there was someone complaining at a line this morning why there are so many jobs in China but not here?
“Why would pay more than new construction cost ($55 per square foot) for a rapidly depreciating 20+ year old resale house?”
Let me guess…… Because realtors tell you that the cost of a house cannot be evaluated using math?
Didn’t have a chance to respond to anything last night as it was Halloween and anyone who has young children knows, Halloween is all about the kids.
Comment by United States of Crooked Politicians and Bankers
2013-11-01 00:33:04
“Nursing grads are having a tough time because Obamacare is gutting the business of healthcare.”
Oh, please. Obamacare JUST started. Have another drink.
You are obviously either ignorant or a troll given the ACA law was passed on December 24, 2009, almost 4 years ago. The entire industry has had years to see what changes were coming and it has absolutely had an impact on hiring in healthcare, consolidation of services, etc. Either way, it’s possible you might want to stop drinking because it is obviously impacting your cognitive behavior.
Got 5.56?
http://www.infowars.com/food-riots-china-cyber-attacks-the-rise-of-conscious-ai-and-other-what-if-predictions-for-a-future-in-flux/
Got 5.56?
More than I need and not nearly as much as I want. The only area I’m really lacking right now is in 12ga buck and slugs. I’ll start addressing that over the winter, once hunting season is over and all the Fudd’s go back into hibernation.
I have a manual for the SKS and would like to learn how to field-strip and clean it but am afraid to try it one my own.
Do small, non-corporate chain gun stores or indoor ranges offer these kind of “lessons” ?
If you’re not afraid of getting on a watch list, I’d just google. I don’t have one but it can’t be too complicated. They were made for unschooled kids straight off the farm/paddy.
“can’t be too complicated”
That’s one of the reasons I bought it. And why I like revolvers.
When TEOTWAWKI happens (Obama and thug army DHS crash the food stamp system to intentionally trigger riots) I want to keep it simple stupid regarding personal defense.
I have a manual for the SKS and would like to learn how to field-strip and clean it but am afraid to try it one my own.
In my experience, most small gun-shops aren’t that knowledgeable about the firearms they sell. When I bought my first AK, it came with a manual, but I learned mostly from a local expert on AK’s I knew through Northeastshooters.com
If I were you, hop on Northeastshooters and ask some questions or search for previous posts regarding the SKS. PM a friend of mine on there whose handle is SKSRAY. He’s an expert and can answer any of your questions…
When TEOTWAWKI happens
I still think a foreign passport and an offshore safe house are a better investment.
When TEOTWAWKI happens
I still think a foreign passport and an offshore safe house are a better investment.
I like Larry Ellison’s plan of owning a private island. Of course, I’ll most likely never be able to afford that, so it’s guns and gear for me.
Today’s Savings Bond rates are out. Series I bonds now have a non-zero fixed rate. 0.2%.
It’s a good start, since 52-week T-bills are yielding only 0.16. The total rate for Series I bonds is now 1.38%. You have to hold for at least 12 months before redeeming them I think. There is a 3 month interest penalty for redeeming within 5 years of purchase though. I have put very little into savings bonds since the fixed rate was mostly zero the last five years. If it goes above 0.5 I might start getting into them from my T-bills.
Comment by MightyMike
2013-10-31 15:48:21
LOLZ. Is this a testament to free-market principles over the centrally-planned economy or what?
It couldn’t represent that. Google and Red Hat, etc. are the products of our centrally planned economy.
You might want to change your handle to MarxistMike. The tech sector in the US is arguable the most free-market of any part of our economy. Your comments stating otherwise show your Marxist ideology. Google is a private company, funded as a startup with private monies from Venture Capitalists. It won out over many other search engines in free-market competition by having smarter developers, better technology, and a better business model. If you’re referring to DARPA-funded internet research, that is not a “Centrally-planned” economy. That was a Defense Department R&D to develop a decentralized network that could survive a Nuclear war. There is a difference, but a Marxist troll like you wouldn’t mention that.
As to Red Hat, Linux is based on an Open Source project. That is very different from “centrally-planned” and arguable just an extension of the free-market. The OS market is not controlled by the government and there is plenty of competition there, but again, a Marxist troll like you wouldn’t understand.
To add to that, open source is anarchist, which is a good thing.
Indeed… the antithesis to centrally-planned anything.
Well I’ve written on this topic a number of times, but it appears that it’s necessary to do so again. Federal government funding of research and development has been essential to the development of the computer industry since it got started in the late 1940s. This funding has helped in the development of many different technologies. Every major vendor in the industry has benefited from that R & D spending. So I could write a Darrel-length rant here, but I’ll try to be concise.
Start with Google. The original work on the search engine was done when the two Google founders were grad students at Stanford. It was funded by a grant from the NSF. One of them was also supported individually by an NSF fellowship. So the original venture capitalists were the taxpayers. We taxpayers are the ones took the real risk.
Then we can go on to discuss the development of Unix. Unix was developed at Bell Labs, which was division of AT&T. You may not be old to remember this, but AT&T had a monopoly on long distance phone calls up until 1984. The government allowed AT&T to have that monopoly and to charge very high rates for long distance calls. Most Americans in those days had to keep an eye on the clock whenever they made a long distance call because the cost per minute was so high. The price of long distance dropped dramatically once AT&T lost the monopoly. Some people might think that this was similar to tax. In any case, it certainly wasn’t an example of competitive, free market capitalism.
AT&T had so much revenue that it was able to lavish funding on Bell Labs, so much so that seven Nobel prizes in physics were awarded for the research done there. In addition to Unix, Bell Labs also developed the transistor and the C programming language, whose importance is unquestionable, as well as many other technologies used by the computer industry.
So that covers Google and Red Hat. But there are many other examples. Go look up Douglas Engelbart on Wikipedia. He did much of the work involved in developing the mouse and other elements of the graphical user interface among other things. You’ll see many references to DARPA, NASA, the Air Force, etc. as well as SRI which was largely funded by the government.
An economist has recently come out with a book listing the large role that the state has played in the development of the industry.
Here’s what she wrote about Apple.
Apple is a perfect example. In its early stages, the company received government cash support via a $500,000 small-business investment company grant. And every technology that makes the iPhone a smartphone owes its vision and funding to the state: the Internet, GPS, touch-screen displays, and even the voice-activated smartphone assistant Siri all received state cash. The U.S. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency bankrolled the Internet, and the CIA and the military funded GPS. So, although the United States is sold to us as the model example of progress through private enterprise, innovation there has benefited from a very interventionist state.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/new_scientist/2013/09/entrepreneurs_or_the_state_innovation_comes_from_public_investment.html
An economist has recently come out with a book listing the large role that the state has played in the development of the industry.
R&D regarding nuclear weapons in WWII begot the Nuclear Reactor technology we have today. Is that “centrally-planned economics” or just the government acting as another participant in the economy, in this case the government’s search for new weapons?
When the government then enacts air quality regulations that put coal-fired power plants out of business and adds taxes on oil while limiting the ability to transfer oil via pipelines through the permitting process and providing economic incentives for manufacturers and consumers to invest in “renewable energy” like solar and wind, is that “centrally-planned economics” or the government acting as just another participant in the economy?
The two examples above are very different, though you continually try and equate them which is either disingenuous or ignorant.
If you still don’t get it, ask yourself a question: Did Google succeed in the market because it had a better product to offer or because of government chose winners through policy? Does GM succeed in the market because it has a better product or because the government chose winners through it’s economic policy? Does Fannie Mae succeed in the market because it has a better product or because government chose winners through it’s economic policy?
Not to beat a dead horse, but equating government-sanctioned military R&D with centrally-planned economics is wrong and shows a misunderstanding of economic theory, not to mention the role of armed conflict, primarily the purvey of governments, in the furthering of science and technology throughout human history.
Most Progressives wouldn’t understand, but as Ron White says, “There is no fix for stupid”.
Dude, I’m well aware of the role of armies and whatnot and government war spending and its role on the development of science and technology. I just gave you a whole bunch of examples of that.
That’s my whole point. The government pays for the R&D. The taxpayer is the venture capitalist who takes the “risk” that Wall Street types like to talk about. The fruits of the R & D are then handed over for free to coporations, who then make the massive profits.
There have been very few eras where there was small government. In the USA the era from 1870 to 1913 was when 1) the slaves were free, 2) there were no income taxes, no capital gains taxes, no dividend taxes at any level of government, very few if any property taxes in any state.
There was 1,000 years of anarchy in ancient Ireland, from 700 to 1700, and that was the only society that was successfully voluntaryist.
Other than that, there was very little opportunity to show the free market can do it better than government. If someone else is throwing money at problems, whether or not it was stolen at gunpoint (government) or voluntarily given does not matter.
It’s unclear to me if you’re getting in on the argument that I’m having with Northeasterner here. If want to get into the whole taxation is theft thing, you could say that money was stolen from taxpayers and handed over to the computer industry. The interesting thing about that is that the same sort of people who are furious with anger at the idea that their tax dollars are being used to feed hungry children will jump in to defend the likes of Microsoft, HP, Google, etc. when the topic of their corporate welfare comes up. And when they jump in to the debate, you can often tell that they’re not familiar with the issue and haven’t given it much thought. It’s just instinctive.
Oh I’m just sensing that you are saying that you like the government gun pointed at me or my neighbor and his property stolen in the quest for technological advancement. And as long as it advances, pointing the gun (and sometimes shooting and killing the one on the opposite side of the barrel) is justified.
I would prefer lifespans up to 40 years as long as no initiation of force is involved.
But I am extremely skeptical that governments side-by-side with free market societies can do better than the free market societies.
The reason is …FORCE The involvement of force costs some amount of wealth and is drained and wasted. In societies without initiation of force or threat of force, the potential of technological advancement is far higher than otherwise.
Let’s say that I am a space engineer and I encourage you (by voting for you) to rob my neighbor to pay for my income. It’s good for me. Good for you (the politician or liberal philanthropist who seeks recognition so as to get better sex). But it discourages my neighbor. That is the unseen cost. The problem is that it’s not just my neighbor, but all my neighbors and the region, and sometimes the whole nation.
It’s moot. Your point is useless. A voluntary system where all associations are of voluntary consent is the only humane way for societies to operate.
http://www.voluntaryist.com
The best models are currently North Korea versus South Korea. Two similar cultures. Which one thrives?
Or before the unification of Germany. East versus west?
Thanks to Milton Friedman (R.I.P.) and Rose Friedman’s “Free To Choose.” We need another “Free to Choose.”
BTW their son David Friedman is also an economist. But he took it further and he’s an anarchist. Milton and his wife were none. They were of the Monetary theory, to keep the centralized banking system and Federal Reserve, but use “monetarism.” Still far better than Keynesianism.
I thought that it was pretty clear that I don’t approve of the way that the computer industry was developed though government spending. That’s why I call it corporate welfare. It’s also why I pointed how the Australian government used its WiFi patent as a different option. So you write, “It’s moot. Your point is useless.”, but you couldn’t see what my point was.
Also, regarding that period before 1913, it is true that there was no slavery, but black essentially didn’t have the right to vote (or serve on juries) in the South and women could only vote in a few states. Besides that, the material standard of living was much lower in those days. It was also quite common for children to die of infectious disease before the age of 5.
Here’s another example from another country. The Autralian government played a large role in the development of WiFi and patented its technology. It then went and sued various hardware and software companies that were using its technology and won the lawsuits, earning some money back for the Australin taxpayer.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/04/wifi-patent-case-results-in-229m-payment-to-australian-government/
We often hear people say that government should act more like a business. I suppose the Australian government has shown how that can be done.
So consider what the American government has done. It has spent billions of dollars on R & D over many decades and allowed private industry to use the fruits of the R & D for free. This can be called corporate welfare. If you don’t want to call it central planning, what else could we call it, maybe decentralized planning?
Here’s one other thing. You’re the one who started the the dicsussion of central planning. And what were you referring to? It was the government’s hiring of contractors to build a website.
How much private investment was there alongside the government investment?
The Stanford Library project was in part supported by the NSF, but there were other Government, University and Corporate collaborators (including Microsoft)…the NSF funded about $4.5MM over 5 years (which supported a lot of other people as well). The ideas behind Google were Page’s and Brin’s, and an early round of funding was $25MM from venture funds, which was anything but risk free.
While the fact that there was government funding is indisputable, can you say that without it, Brin and Page wouldn’t have created Google? Search engines were not new…Yahoo, Lycos and Excite already existed…it was Page’s unique thoughts about looking at how those pages were linked together that drove the development of the Google search engine…are you saying that he wouldn’t have had those same thoughts without the NSF?
Do you have a link for that $4.5MM? I found this page on Stanford’s website
http://ilpubs.stanford.edu:8091/diglib/pub/SponsorsAndPartners.shtml
It does show that there were other sponsors. Those sponsors include six other federal agencies as well as branches of the University of California, i.e. departments of a state government. For some reason the NASA Ames Library is listed as a corporate affiliate, which doesn’t make sense.
Regarding your questions about Brin and Page. As I mentioned, Brin’s tuition at Stanford was paid by an NSF fellowship. (BTW, this makes him a soldier in the FSA, though I’m sure it doesn’t stir up the sort of anger directed at SNAP recipients.) So it’s possible that Page and Brin wouldn’t have been together at Stanford if it wasn’t for that fellowship.
Also, I checked a few web sites about Page and the history of Google. It’s unclear when he developed his ideas about search engines. It may have been during the time he was working on the library project. Or maybe he had them beforehand. However, if there was no library project, he may have ended up working some other project unrelated to search engines. In that case, he might have not been able to work on the search engine.
There are other things to consider. Stanford has had one of the top 3 Computer Science for many years and Brin and Page most likely benefited from being in that department, surrounded by top CS professors and students from around the world. If you looked inot the history of the department, you’d probably find that it benefited many millions of dollars of government grants over a period a of 50 years before Page and Brin got there.
Also, you’re wrong about the Internet. It was not developed to survive a nuclear war:
Although the ARPANET was designed to survive subordinate-network losses, the principal reason was that the switching nodes and network links were unreliable, even without any nuclear attacks. About the resource scarcity that spurred the creation of the ARPANET, Charles Herzfeld, ARPA Director (1965–1967), said:
The ARPANET was not started to create a Command and Control System that would survive a nuclear attack, as many now claim. To build such a system was, clearly, a major military need, but it was not ARPA’s mission to do this; in fact, we would have been severely criticized had we tried. Rather, the ARPANET came out of our frustration that there were only a limited number of large, powerful research computers in the country, and that many research investigators, who should have access to them, were geographically separated from them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET
You obviously didn’t dig deep enough into the history behind ARPANET, or maybe you shouldn’t rely solely on Wikipedia to fill in the gaps in your knowledge.
[klider’s] inspiration had come from Project Lincoln, which had begun back in 1951 when the Air Force commissioned MIT to design a state-of-the-art, early-warning network to guard against a Soviet nuclear bomber attack. The idea – radical
at the time – was to create a system in which all the radar surveillance, target tracking, and
other operations would be coordinated by
computers, which in turn would be based on
a highly experimental MIT machine known
as Whirlwind: the first “real-time” computer
capable of responding to events as fast as
they occurred. Project Lincoln would eventually
result in a continent-spanning system of
23 centers that each housed up to 50 human
radar operators, plus two redundant real-time
computers capable of tracking up to 400 airplanes
at once. This Semi-Automatic Ground
Environment (SAGE) system would also include
the world’s first long-distance network,
which allowed the computers to transfer data
among the 23 centers over telephone lines.
ARPANET was born out of Project Lincoln, an early warning network designed to span the US.
You wrote this:
That was a Defense Department R&D to develop a decentralized network that could survive a Nuclear war.
and the quote from the director of DARPA was this:
The ARPANET was not started to create a Command and Control System that would survive a nuclear attack, as many now claim.
That’s direct contradiction. It’s possible that Wikipedia is wrong, but if the quote is accurate, then you’re mistaken.
My quote above is from the DARPA website directly…
ARPANET was born out of Project Lincoln, an early warning network designed to span the US.
I’ll take the DARPA website over wikipedia in this case.
Where’s Rio? I’m sure he can come up with some witty rejoinder about governments being better at everything than private enterprise and free markets…
Everything? Everything? That dumb blanket strawman proves you are not witty.
Mine did.
LOLZ. Your response shows you have nothing to contribute in this area. No strawman… show me one area of our economy dominated by government and central planning that works better than the free-market?
The Fed setting the cost of money? Nope.
Housing? Nope.
Healthcare? Nope.
Energy? Nope.
Farming and food production? Nope.
Education? Nope.
I might give you points for defense, but everyone knows the MIC is out of control and that is crony capitalism more than “free-markets”. I also could give you points for Transportation, but our freeway system was really for the defense department, subsidized rail is a financial mess as are the majority of publicly-funded subways.
So please tell me what the value of a centrally-planned, government-controlled economy is and how it is better than free-market principles. Please educate us on the economic lessons that show Communist Soviet Union, Communist Venezuela, Communist Cuba, Communist North Korea, and any other centrally-planned economy is better than a free-market economy.
Or you can just throw insults and ignore the truth of my statement…
The blog LIEberals and GovLovers are spun up into a tizzy. Maggots.
show me one area of our economy dominated by government and central planning that works better than the free-market?
Medicare, The VA, Clean air, water, libraries, food, roads, etc etc.
Give me a challenge dude.
and obamacare will make us more civilized too.
obamacare will make us more civilized
Yes.
Here’s another one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ5PcWziXT0
Automakers have had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into making cars that are safer, pollute less and are more fuel efficient. The free market would never have made these new standards, simply because buyers are not interested in them, even though there are very important.
Right, because Volvo wasn’t making safe cars 30 years ago and MB, BMW, and Audi don’t push the envelope of safety and technology, that eventually trickles down to the average car.
That’s rich, using the Marxist Europeans as model for the free market.
Rather, using an example of auto manufacturers that were offering things like safety cages, airbags, and anti-lock brakes to customers without government mandated safety standards…
In 1930, safety glass became standard on all Ford cars.
In 1949 SAAB incorporated aircraft safety thinking into automobiles making the Saab 92 the first production SAAB car with a safety cage.
In 1956, Ford tried unsuccessfully to interest Americans in purchasing safer cars with their Lifeguard safety package. (Its attempt nevertheless earns Ford Motor Trend’s “Car of the Year” award for 1956.)[
In 1966, the U.S. established the United States Department of Transportation (DOT) with automobile safety one of its purposes.
Why would auto companies offer safety features without a government mandate?
Because some of their rich customers might want to feel safe and are willing to pay for safety features, at a tidy profit. Or because the rich customer’s wives want to feel safe in the car and are willing to pay for safety features, at a tidy profit. Or because they want their customers (and their children) to live long enough to buy another car, at a tidy profit. If the people aren’t going to pay, at a tidy profit, they may as well die.
That’s why.
Medicare, The VA, Clean air, water, libraries, food, roads, etc etc.
Give me a challenge dude.
* Medicare: a financial mess and a ponzi no different than Social Security, especially as our population skews older.
* VA: Use your google fu to see all the quality issues with VA care and how many veterans are gettting shafted by the VA.
* Clean air and water: achieved by destroying our domestic manufacturing job base and pushing the costs out to less developed countries… yeah, that’s a government win
* Libraries: because having to physically store books and check them out and in is so much easier than storing them electronically and making them available to anyone: BTW, google is doing that, not government-funded libraries.
* Food: you mean like subsidies for using corn-based ethanol for fuel? Or how about government limits on raisin prices? Your google fu is failing today.
* Roads: I already discounted that in my post above.
Sorry, Rio, you failed. As usual, your marxist BS is transparent. You should try maybe peddling that stuff on Huffpost. They might believe you there.
You are truly a clueless git.
show me one area of our economy dominated by government and central planning that works better than the free-market?
You’re missing the point by thinking that the debate is about how well government provides some service or other as compared to the free market. It’s not about what is provided or even how well; it’s about whom is provided to. The government is set up to provide food, protection, education, recreation, health care, mail services, etc, to everybody. The private market is set up to provide those goods and services only to those willing and able to pay for it, plus a tidy profit.
Providing to everyone:
Government: decent job. Free Market: they don’t even try.
Providing to a select wealthy few:
Free Market: excellent. Government: errr….. improving….
You must have upped your kool-aid intake this morning.
For today’s smoothie, instead of using domesticated blueberries grown in Maryland, I used wild blueberries grown on the plains of southern Canuckistan. O my. Those little buggers are having a more socialistic effect than I thought.
LOL,
…or it may have been the free range chicken wings you ate last night.
Chickens enjoy life much more if they are allowed to range free……right up until the point where they get killed, battered and deep fried!
It’s not about what is provided or even how well; it’s about whom is provided to. The government is set up to provide food, protection, education, recreation, health care, mail services, etc, to everybody. The private market is set up to provide those goods and services only to those willing and able to pay for it, plus a tidy profit.
All government efforts are about redistribution of wealth, as the only wealth a government has is taken from it’s citizens. The question is not “whom does the government provide services to?”, it is “what is the role of government?”.
Marxists believe government should determine the allocation of resources in the economy. Free-market capitalists believe that market competition should determine the allocation of resources in the economy. Who is more efficient at determining the allocation of resources: a single man? a cabal of men? the market?
Should the government be in the business of providing food to everyone, housing to everyone, mail delivery to everyone, defense for everyone, transportation for everyone? Should the government be determining energy policy, what I drive, what powers my house? Should the government be determining healthcare policy, how much I pay, what services I’m allowed?” If the government takes over each of these parts of the economy, what’s left for the free-market to determine? More importantly, why is King Obama and his Progressive cronies more knowledgeable than the market? The answer, of course, is that he isn’t, but that goes against Marxist theory.
“All government efforts are about redistribution of wealth”
All private enterprise is about the redistribution of wealth. What’s your point?
Providing to everyone:
Government: decent job. Free Market: they don’t even try.
Providing to a select wealthy few:
Free Market: excellent. Government: errr….. improving….
Stalin would be proud…
The government is set up to provide food
When did it become the government’s job to provide everyone with food? Where can I get some of that government food? Food is expensive and I’m tired of paying for it… I’d rather the taxpayer pay for it.
The amusing thing is that Oxide probably believes this really is a function of the government. Well that, and that in the free-market of Craigslist, one can find some poor schmuck who will sell their EBT card for .25 on the dollar because they need the cash for smack.
Says so in the constitution.
“…promote the general welfare.”
Speaking of gov vs capitalism, how’d that Wall St thing work out?
Yeah, you are truly a clueless git.
Says so in the constitution.
“…promote the general welfare.”
There are many who believe that the general welfare is promoted by having a rule of law that is applied equally to all men, in the context of a free market system.
how’d that Wall St thing work out?
Yeah, how did that rule of law thing work out with respect to Wall St???
I like the idea of government providing jobs for everyone. Some people are unemployable, even in a healthy economy. Work provides structure and purpose and pride. I have a neighbor whose son is developmentally delayed (as in never going to be self supporting). He is proud of the job he has shoveling horse poop.
Because of the benefit of work for the working individual, I like the idea of work for welfare. But the government should not undercut the free market labor economy or it drives all wages down. Prison labor can have the same effect. So perhaps we should require government to pay more than minimum wage for hours worked in exchange for welfare.
This is akin to farm subsidies that take acres out of production to provide price support for crops and to give farmers an incentive to let their land lay fallow to recover from intensive farming. BTW, Government taking land out of production was instrumental in reducing the impact of drought in the early 1950s so we didn’t have a second Dust Bowl.
I see government’s role in the economy as mitigating the excesses of free market capitalism and as a driver of basic research that is not economical for profit based corporations to pursue. Government cannot react as fast as a free market to changing conditions. So we need a marriage of both government programs and free market capitalism to have a healthy economy. Government acts as a gyroscope to maintain balance and reduce wild swings, when it works well. Government also provides the rules by which we all play and the referees to enforce fairness. Too many rules and the game is no fun. Too few and it is chaos.
I see government’s role in the economy as mitigating the excesses of free market capitalism and as a driver of basic research that is not economical for profit based corporations to pursue.
Exactly. We all know the end result of Communism as well as the pain of unbridled capitalism. It is government balancing the excess of capitalism, as you say, that provides the best for all involved. Obama is too far left and Bush was too far right. But the polarization of moderates to the extremes will not allow us to come together in the middle.
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-10-31 13:47:14
I’ve bought life insurance over the internet before, and it was significantly cheaper than what a local insurance rep quoted me.
What are you talking about - your point? Like if you could buy Obamacare over the internet it will be cheaper than the phone? Are you serious?
The fact that you have no idea what I’m talking about in regards to the internet increasing competition and efficient price discovery shows you really know nothing about free-markets or choose to be ignorant.
All the insurance I’ve bought online to date has been cheaper than what I could by in-person because those who rely upon in-person sales do not have the volume of business to slash their profit margin and still be in business. They rely on local consumers with little knowledge or ability of pricing outside their geographic region, which the internet addresses with quite well. Competition reduces prices and makes for a better overall product.
The health exchanges are different because insurance participants are required to take everyone regardless of health, required to provide coverage according to the government’s standards, and have limits regarding what they can charge. Bottom line, there is little competition in the space because the government is controlling the product and pricing. All the plans will be similar, there is no “price advantage”, thus your assessment of “online costs the same as over the phone as in-person” is correct. In other words, the best part of the internet, removing geographic boundaries and allowing for more competition has been neutralized by the government… but you knew that, didn’t you?
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2013-10-31 18:50:37
Read this whole article including the background to my snippet below. It’s complicated. That’s why the far-right can exploit it to the masses. But their assertion is wrong.
Nothing Northeastener? Because it debunks your “Congress was exempted from Obamacare” theory?
I read it. My response is as follows: The law as originally written excluded Congress from the ACA. An amendment was written by a Republican and passed into law to include Congress and it’s staff in the ACA. However, now Congress and Congressional staffers are in a tizzy because they will end up paying more for coverage through the ACA than their government-subsidized plans prior to the ACA. They’re calling it a “pay-cut”. The reality is that every single person who has had their insurance plan cancelled and now must purchase through the exchanges is paying more for that coverage. A “pay-cut” as far as I’m concerned, only they don’t get to have Congress pass a law providing a subsidy to soften the economic blow.
My point holds: “Some animals are more equal than others.”
Average Joe Q. Public gets to pay more for insurance under the ACA but Congress won’t.
My point holds: “Some animals are more equal than others.”
You’ve been saying that for years. That’s your philosophy. So if it’s true for Congress (which it isn’t) why would you be upset? It’s your philosophy. “Life is not fair” you say.
If that’s your philosophy and you are mad that Congress is implementing your philosophy then you are a hypocrite.
If that’s your philosophy and you are mad that Congress is implementing your philosophy then you are a hypocrite.
Life isn’t fair, too bad marxists like you try and steal from me to “make it more fair”.
In a free society, those in a position of legislative power like Congress don’t get to use their position to ensure they get better treatment then the rest of society. It’s about limiting the power of government, not making things fair. But to a hack like you, that probably looks similar…
In financial services, it’s called eating what you kill, and the drive behind the QRM rules…if you are willing to keep a portion of the mortgages on your books, then there are fewer restrictions on the kind of mortgages you can make. In other words, if you are willing to live with the deals you make for your own money, then it’s OK.
When congress isn’t willing to live by the rules that they impose on everyone else, that’s a problem.
For tax policy, my partner said that if he was king of the universe for a day, and had one piece of paper to write a law, it would be the following:
“All members of the senate and the house are required to do fill out and file their own tax return, without the aid of a computer, CPA, or other third party, and are to show their work.”
You would see the tax code simplified very quickly…
those in a position of legislative power like Congress don’t get to use their position to ensure they get better treatment then the rest of society.
????? You’re joking right? That’s about the funniest thing I’ve read today.
Life’s not fair dude, get over it.
Life’s not fair dude, get over it.
So you freely admit that government power is corrupt and inefficient and just serves the benefit of the few in power? Sounds like we need less government intrusion in everything… I didn’t realize you were libertarian Rio.
well golly gee willikers ohbewanna……
Liberal Brookings Institution Admits: Cash for Clunkers a Failure
http://thenewamerican.com/economy/economics/item/16852-liberal-brookings-institution-admits-cash-for-clunkers-a-failure
Why’s it a failure? Used cars are more expensive than they should be…I think it was a brilliant success.
It’s been quite a while now since cash for clunkers. I’d bet that these days it’s more because the upper middle class cut way back a few years ago, so the supply is lower now. And the lower middle class that would otherwise be buying new is trying to be frugal and is buying up the supply that would normally drop much more in price before selling.
Cash for clunkers removed 690,000 cars from circulation. A drop in the bucket. I think Carl’s explanation makes more sense. When used car sales tanked (from 19M to 11M) millions of trade ins didn’t happen, and that’s what boosted used car prices. Now that new car sales are up again, used prices have softened a bit.
When used car sales tanked (from 19M to 11M) millions of trade ins didn’t happen
Oops, meant to say when new car sales tanked.
Don’t discount the Fed efforts at maintaining low interest rates… car loan rates are artificially low due to Fed suppression efforts. Also, it’s often easier for “how-much-a-month-Joe” to get financed on a new car, especially when there is negative equity in their trade, because of manufacturer rebates and such.
Yeah when I bought the BMW a year and a half ago I knew there were financing deals for new cars, which I thought were subsidized by the manufacturers to move more new product. But the first thing they offered me when I decided to buy the used car was 0% for 24 months or 0.9% for up to 48 months. Not what I was expecting…
Bought a new car for my wife this May, intended to pay cash. They wouldn’t drop the price like I wanted. So I asked about financing deals and that got them moving down on price. Ended up taking 0.9% but paid it off this summer. It’s unclear if I could’ve moved them more without the financing, but they moved ultimately moved 1500. I don’t think they’d have moved that much sans financing.
The second thing I noticed is that 3-4 yr old accords with 30-50k miles were not significantly less. I shopped around online but no one was willing to budge much on price.
The last thing I noticed was how much better the tech, features, and interiors are on the new cars. 2011/12 accords felt like dinosaurs compared to the new 13/14. Design and manufacturing have upped their game.
For BMW, they make a ton on maintenance, I’m sure they benefit greatly from more beemers on the road. Relatively few new BMW drivers changing their own oil.
Bought a new car for my wife this May, intended to pay cash. They wouldn’t drop the price like I wanted. So I asked about financing deals and that got them moving down on price.
More often than not, there are kickbacks and holdback from the manufacturer on financing, especially through manufacters’ captive finance arms. This would allow the dealer to offer a better price with financing than if you pay cash.
$11,000 a square foot…
————————
Singapore Billionaires Want A Piece Of The New York Sky
Forbes | 10/31/2013 | Neerja Jetley
The Kwee brothers, Singapore’s fifth richest with a net worth of $5.2 billion, want a piece of the New York sky. Announcing their first venture overseas, the four brothers who collectively run Pontiac Land, yesterday unveiled plans for a 1050 ft towering skyscraper, to come up between the 53rd and 54th streets in New York city.
Located in an area now being nicknamed the ‘billionaire’s row’, because of luxury penthouses contracted to come up at $90-$95 million or upwards of $11,000 a square foot on nearby 57th street, Pontiac Land’s skyscraper will house galleries of the Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) and 145 luxury apartments with views of the Central Park, built for the richest of rich.
The project was, in fact, conceived in 2007 by Houston-based property firm Hines that along with partner Goldman Sachs Group Goldman Sachs Group Inc bought the land for $125 million. However, it ran into trouble in the aftermath of the financial crisis as funds dried up. In 2009, a logjam with the city planners on its proposed height, put another spanner in the works. Its revival now, represents a turning tide in New York pricey real estate market as well its enduring appeal to investors, developers and shoppers across the globe.
One good thing about living in flyover country. China doesn’t bother with nuclear plans for you at all.
————-
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/31/inside-china-nuclear-submarines-capable-of-widespr/
“Because the Midwest states of the U.S. are sparsely populated, in order to increase the lethality, [our] nuclear attacks should mainly target the key cities on the West Coast of the United States, such as Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco and San Diego,” the Global Times said.
“If we launch our DF 31A ICBMs over the North Pole, we can easily destroy a whole list of metropolises on the East Coast and the New England region of the U.S., including Annapolis, Philadelphia, New York, Boston, Portland, Baltimore and Norfolk, whose population accounts for about one-eighth of America’s total residents,” the Global Times said.
Funny how even the Chinese won’t waste a nuke on Detroit, Cleveland, or Chicago…
They don’t have too….
McDonalds and Walmart. Not worth killing midwest/southerners. They’re doing it to themselves.
The Russians actually had plans to try to win, and therefore targeted our missile installations…many of which are in flyover. Apparently China just wants to draw as much blood as possible?
If you ever read about MAD - mutually assured destruction - or saw Dr. Strangelove, it’s supposedly all about deterrence. Putting this information out there, if they’re actually doing it, is a way to communicate to America that there would be consequences if we were to nuke China.
Hoping and paying that the global warming will soon bring in warmer winters in the midwest. I want to gtfo of here before China sends those nice gifts.
Are you reading Drudge? I saw that moonie link there and clicked on it.
It is well established that the editorial policies of “papers of record” such as the New York Times and the Washington Post are strictly sh*tlib, but they actually do some occasional reporting that could be considered journalism.
The Washington Times probably wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for traffic from Drudge links.
Also regarding Bloomberg dot com, Michael Bloomberg is a gun-grabbing, Big Gulp-banning, climate change alarmist, statist ninny, but his news service provides excellent reporting. They were submitting FOIA requests on the criminal cartel Federal Reserve’s bailout programs when no one else was.
no, saw it on another discussion board i frequent
We love ohbahhmacare….we really love it….
http://chicksontheright.com/posts/item/24908-well-at-least-the-chick-from-the-whorecast-has-insurance-now
Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable To Keep Their Health Plans Under Obamacare.
By Avik Roy
October 30, 2013 11:33 PM
Obama administration knew that Obamacare would disrupt private plans
If you read the Affordable Care Act when it was passed, you knew that it was dishonest for President Obama to claim that “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan,” as he did—and continues to do—on countless occasions. And we now know that the administration knew this all along. It turns out that in an obscure report buried in a June 2010 edition of the Federal Register, administration officials predicted massive disruption of the private insurance market.
On Tuesday, White House spokesman Jay Carney attempted to minimize the disruption issue, arguing that it only affected people who buy insurance on their own. “That’s the universe we’re talking about, 5 percent of the population,” said Carney. “In some of the coverage of this issue in the last several days, you would think that you were talking about 75 percent or 80 percent or 60 percent of the American population.” (5 percent of the population happens to be 15 million people, no small number, but let’s leave that aside.)
By “coverage of this issue,” Carney was referring to two articles. The first, by Chad Terhune of the Los Angeles Times, described a number of Californians who are seeing their existing plans terminated and replaced with much more expensive ones. “I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it,” said one.
The second article, by Lisa Myers and Hanna Rappleye of NBC News, unearthed the aforementioned commentary in the Federal Register, and cited “four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act” as saying that “50 to 75 percent” of people who buy coverage on their own are likely to receive cancellation notices due to Obamacare.
Mid-range estimate: 51% of employer-sponsored plans will get canceled
But Carney’s dismissal of the media’s concerns was wrong, on several fronts. Contrary to the reporting of NBC, the administration’s commentary in the Federal Register did not only refer to the individual market, but also the market for employer-sponsored health insurance.
Section 1251 of the Affordable Care Act contains what’s called a “grandfather” provision that, in theory, allows people to keep their existing plans if they like them. But subsequent regulations from the Obama administration interpreted that provision so narrowly as to prevent most plans from gaining this protection.
“The Departments’ mid-range estimate is that 66 percent of small employer plans and 45 percent of large employer plans will relinquish their grandfather status by the end of 2013,” wrote the administration on page 34,552 of the Register. All in all, more than half of employer-sponsored plans will lose their “grandfather status” and get canceled. According to the Congressional Budget Office, 156 million Americans—more than half the population—was covered by employer-sponsored insurance in 2013.
Another 25 million people, according to the CBO, have “nongroup and other” forms of insurance; that is to say, they participate in the market for individually-purchased insurance. In this market, the administration projected that “40 to 67 percent” of individually-purchased plans would lose their Obamacare-sanctioned “grandfather status” and get canceled, solely due to the fact that there is a high turnover of participants and insurance arrangements in this market. (Plans purchased after March 23, 2010 do not benefit from the “grandfather” clause.) The real turnover rate would be higher, because plans can lose their grandfather status for a number of other reasons.
How many people are exposed to these problems? 60 percent of Americans have private-sector health insurance—precisely the number that Jay Carney dismissed. As to the number of people facing cancellations, 51 percent of the employer-based market plus 53.5 percent of the non-group market (the middle of the administration’s range) amounts to 93 million Americans.
Will these canceled plans be replaced with better coverage?
President Obama’s famous promise that “you could keep your plan” was not some naïve error or accident. He, and his allies, knew that previous Democratic attempts at health reform had failed because Americans were happy with the coverage they had, and opposed efforts to change the existing system.
Now, supporters of the law are offering a different argument. “We didn’t really mean it when we said you could keep your plan,” they say, “but it doesn’t matter, because the coverage you’re going to get under Obamacare will be better than the coverage you had before.”
But that’s not true. Obamacare forces insurers to offer services that most Americans don’t need, don’t want, and won’t use, for a higher price. Bob Laszewski, in a revealing blog post, wrote about the cancellation of his own health coverage. “Right now,” he wrote, “I have ‘Cadillac’ health insurance. I can access every provider in the national Blue Cross network—about every doc and hospital in America—without a referral and without higher deductibles and co-pays.”
But his plan is being canceled. His new, Obamacare-compatible plan has a $500 higher deductible, and a narrower physician and hospital network that restricts out-of-town providers. And yet it costs 66 percent more than his current plan. “Mr. President,” he writes, “I really like my health plan and I would like to keep it. Can you help me out here?”
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-officials-2010-93-million-033300620.html -
If you like your health care plan, you can keep your … - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCUpJDzyRnY - 120k
The Federal Aviation Administration announced a full ground stop until the incident has been officially resolved.
Eyewitness Nick Pugh told local affiliate KNBC-TV, “I heard a total of maybe 8 to 10 shots fired in maybe two bursts,” Pugh said. “Everyone dropped to the floor and started crawling along the crowd.”
Another witness, Tory Belecci, said the suspect appeared to be carrying a rifle, possibly an assault rifle.
A White House official said that, “The President has been briefed about the shooting at LAX. We will continue stay in touch with our federal and local partners. The LAPD is leading the response and investigation. We urge citizens to listen to the authorities and follow directions from the first responders on site. The President will continue to receive briefings throughout the day.”
Access to the airport has been temporarily shutdown on Century Boulevard, the main road leading into LAX. In addition, all flights are reportedly delayed.
“Everyone dropped to the floor and started crawling along the crowd.”
If everyone dropped to the floor who was representing the crowd? Was that a Yogi Berra quote?
LA STRONG.
Wait until you see the picture of 20 people sheltering in place in a bathroom stall. Sheep…
There is a whiff of FALSE FLAG in the air.
shut up with your conspiracy theories already
some of dianne feinstein’s ‘real journalists’ will get to the bottom of this
“If you like your health care plan, you can keep your plan.”
Have there ever been any real false flag incidents in the US, or it just a concept?
“Operation Northwoods was a series of false flag proposals that originated within the United States government in 1962, but were rejected by the Kennedy administration.[2] The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit perceived acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
“Have there ever been any real false flag incidents in the US, or it just a concept?”
Do you want me to read the card?
It sounds like Operation Northwoods was proposed but never implemented.
Crisis actors rock.
What do you call it when one TSA agent shoots another TSA agent in a gun free zone?
A crisis to call for new gun control.
LAX incident - I’ll wait for the facts to unfold.
“Pinellas serving free dinner at 18 schools, with more to come”
http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/pinellas-serving-free-dinner-at-18-schools-with-more-to-come/2150348
“Realtors snort bath salts and houses chew your face off… or something like that.””
Exactly.
THE SOUP NAZI - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ3AOmZ2fps - 126k -
I guess Kathleen Sebelius would be the lung Nazi.
No lung for you! NEXT!
Judge Orders Sebelius To Put Girl Who Needs Lung On Transplant List
Jun 06, 2013
A federal judge intervened in the case of a 10-year-old girl with cystic fibrosis who needs a lung transplant, ordering HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius to provide an exception and place the girl on the adult lung transplant list.
Bloomberg: Sebelius Sued By Dying Girl’s Family Over Transplant Rule
The family of a 10-year-old Pennsylvania girl who needs a lung transplant to survive won a temporary court order making her eligible to seek an organ from an adult donor after U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius denied her family’s request. Janet and Francis Murnaghan, whose daughter Sarah suffers from cystic fibrosis, filed a lawsuit yesterday in federal court in Philadelphia seeking to bar Sebelius from enforcing a department rule giving adults and adolescents priority over children younger than 12 for adult lungs (Wayne and Edney, 6/6).
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2013/June/06/transplant-list.aspx - 25k -
Pa. girl goes home after 2 lung transplants - USA Today
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/27/girl-lung-transplants-home/2706193/ - 96k - Cached - Similar pages
Aug 28, 2013 … Sarah Murnaghan’s case highlighted need for more organ donors. … Sarah Murnaghan, the 11-year-old Pennsylvania girl whose bid to … The one-year survival rate after a lung transplant is 80% to 90% … About half of patients live to about five years after surgery, and a third make it for 10 years, he says.
Why are you so interested in this? Do you have any idea of the issues involved?
“Do you have any idea of the issues involved?”
Like Kathleen Sebelius saying it’s her fault that a $650 million website doesn’t work while having the authority to say who does or doesn’t get a lung transplant.
Like Obama saying “If you like your health care plan, you can keep your plan” while 93 million Americans will be unable to keep their Health Plans under Obamacare.
It’s not about health care, it’s about control.
So the answer is no, you don’t understand the issues involved.
“So the answer is no, you don’t understand the issues involved.”
I understand the main issue. We had 15 million people who did not have healthcare in this country and that was unacceptable. We now have Obamacare cancelling 93 million existing health plans, jacking up rates (the insurance companies helped write the bill) and raising deductables for millions more.
Would you care to coment on these issues?
It’s not about health care, it’s about control.
I was referring to the lung transplant issue. Sebelius was just enforcing policies established by other people.
Who are the “other people”?
Become an organ donor today.
http://www.organdonor.gov/becomingdonor/
My parents donated a Gulbranson in the 1970s. That should count?
We had one of those peeannos.
We urge citizens to listen to the authorities
Awesome—I noted that too.