It’s Like The Market We Had Way Back
A report from Michigan Live. “Another real estate report, another big jump for metro Detroit home selling prices. The October RE/MAX National Housing Report says that of the 52 largest metro areas surveyed, Detroit had the largest rise in median selling prices with an increase of 45 percent. ‘What we’re seeing now are predictable seasonal cycles, which is just another sign that the housing recovery is bringing us back to a more normal market,’ Margaret Kelly, RE/MAX CEO, says in the latest report. ‘Home sales are expected to slow down during the holidays and winter months before returning to the next growth cycle in the spring.’”
The Grand Rapids Business Journal in Michigan. “The latest Grand Rapids Association of Realtors data showed the average West Michigan home sold for $155,648 in September, a dramatic 12 percent increase from the previous September. The number of transactions also was up in September, by almost 14 percent from the same month last year.”
“‘If you list something today and you price it right, it’s going to go. I can give you story after story after story. One that I heard yesterday is somebody put a (for sale) sign in the yard and somebody pulled up in their car and said, ‘I want to see it now’ and then wrote an offer,’ said Julie Rietberg, GRAR CEO. ‘It’s like the market we had way back. We haven’t seen this kind of market for years. I’m going to say it’s almost too much too fast.’”
The Chicago Tribune in Illinois. “Dana and Jim Metz recently moved into a new house after looking for three years. They were motivated by low mortgage rates, finding the right property in their price range and discovering that they had to make a fast decision. During their lengthy search, they found that there is a severe lack of inventory, and a buyer’s market had turned into a seller’s market. As a result, they had to make a quick decision because of competition from other buyers.”
“‘Five days after we first saw Lexington Place, seven of the nine homes had been sold,’ Dana said. Under pressure, they immediately decided to buy a 3,600-square-foot plan with five bedrooms — one of them for their baby daughter.”
From Chicago Mag in Illinois. “Q: Dennis, I was hoping you could offer some advice on the sale of our condo. It is a 2Bd/2Ba that my wife and I purchased in October ’06 for $410,000. We are trying to make the move to the suburbs but are having a hard time finding a buyer. We have lowered our ask from $420,000 (aggressive) down to $350,000, which is where the last two sales in our sister building [next door] were. My question is: do you have any tips on marketing or anything else for high-end ground units?”
“A: Aside from the fall slowdown in the market, there are a few other things that might be working against you, Justin. But you didn’t ask what’s wrong; you asked how to market the property. My first suggestion is always price, because a good price will always bring in potential buyers. So first, I would determine how much farther you can cut it. The neighboring units sold when the market was a little frothier; you might need to get a little lower than they were. Not a ton, just a smidge. Buyers might then bid it back up.”
From Chicago Business. “Chicago had 33,902 vacant homes at midyear, up 22 percent from the end of 2010, according to DePaul University’s Institute for Housing Studies. In some census tracts in South Side neighborhoods such as Englewood and Back of the Yards, 1 in 6 homes is vacant. Vacancies in suburban Cook County have jumped 79 percent since the end of 2010, to 21,479 homes at midyear. In one census tract in Harvey, the vacancy rate is 17 percent, while it topped 16 percent in a tract that includes parts of Chicago Heights, Steger, Ford Heights and Sauk Village.”
“More than 17 percent, or 12,856, of all Chicago-area homes in the foreclosure process are ‘zombies,’ properties that have been vacated but have yet to be repossessed by lenders, according to RealtyTrac. Compounding the problem, it takes an average of 828 days—more than two years—for a home to go through foreclosure in Illinois, the fourth-longest among all 50 states.”
“A turn down its side streets in Washington Park, Englewood, West Englewood and Back of the Yards reveals the impact of decades of poverty and neglect, compounded by the housing crash. Blocks with a half-dozen board-ups or more are common. Sitting in between many are vacant lots, often overgrown and strewn with garbage. ‘Look at that poor person trying to sell that house. I mean, are you kidding me?’ says Cook County Commissioner Bridget Gainer, pointing out a small frame house listed for $29,900.”
The Columbus Dispatch. in Ohio. “After roaring back from the dead, the housing market appears to be quieting down. Home sales declined in central Ohio and throughout the nation in October. Experts attribute the low inventory level of the past year to several things, including homeowners nervous about moving up after the housing crisis or being unable to sell because they owe more than their home is worth.”
“One expert says that rising prices contributed more to the sales decline than did a low inventory. ‘Prices have reached a point where buying a house isn’t the great deal it was 18 month ago, so fewer people are buying,’ said Richard Green, director of the Lusk Center for Real Estate at the University of Southern California.”
From WOSU in Ohio. “The Central Ohio real estate market has seen its ups and downs over the past 10 years. Prices peaked seven years ago, then plummeted when the housing bubble burst. Now sales and prices are on the rise – raising fears of another bubble. One area of concern: foreclosed properties still left over from the recession. Bank repossessions in the Columbus metro area have nearly doubled this year. Those properties soon will be for sale.”
“RealtyTrac’s VP Daren Blomquist worries about a potential bubble caused by outside investors who may overpay for the foreclosed properties. ‘It could be creating a sort of a bubble. It’s not the same sort of bubble that we saw in the last housing boom and bust where that bubble was facilitated by loose lending…This is a totally different phenomenon in many ways,’ Blomquist said. ‘But it could be pushing prices up to higher than they really should be.’”
From KCRG on Iowa. “Mayoral challenger Greg Hughes is losing his house to foreclosure and a sheriff’s sale. The light blue-colored, two-story where Hughes has lived since boyhood, will be sold to satisfy debts at a Linn County Sheriff’s sale on Dec. 10. Hughes called the move to let his house go a ’strategic’ one designed, in part, so he does not have to pay two people back to whom he owes money, he said. As for the possibility of a bank losing money on his house or his debts, Hughes said, ‘We don’t feel sorry for the banks. Look at the bailouts they got. … They have insurance for this kind of stuff.’”
“Hughes said he’s likely to rent an apartment after the December sheriff’s sale of his house, which he said he’s lived in for 47 of his 56 years. Hughes said he’s ‘not ashamed’ of the foreclosure of his house now and of his bankruptcy a year ago. ‘I just did what I had to do,’ he said. ‘… Just like anybody else.’”
RE: Central Ohio, my college roommate bought a 4BR house in South Columbus 10 years ago (with an interest only mortgage). This is south of German Village, which had greatly gentrified in the 80s-90s, in Merion Village. The wave of gentrification he predicted would spill further south into his neighborhood never materialized. The stretch of Parsons Avenue through his nabe is overrun with heroin and prostitutes. He’s had his house broken into once and his garage broken into multiple times. But back in the day, circa 2006, he was crowing about all his new equity and did a cash-out refi. Now he wants out of the hellhole that his neighborhood turned into, but is underwater and unwilling (but able) to bring cash to the table to get out. Sad panda delusional debt donkey still chasing the dream…
“Sad panda delusional debt donkey still chasing the dream…”
And there are tens of millions of them. Thank your lucky stars that you’re not on the hook for 30 years on a rapidly depreciating house.
One thing about Ohio cities is that neighborhoods don’t gentrify. Coworkers who have moved here from out of state comment on this and are quite puzzled by this. Your friend did not grasp this fact when he bought.
Cities in Ohio do not tear down housing and rebuild in the same location. They simply build new outside of the city and people seem to prefer them.
Columbus (and Cincy to some extent) are not tied to any natural fixure and have no boundries surrounding them. They are like amebas… free to move about to some degree, reaching out in whatever direction they (or the politically connected) desire. Cincinnati has spawned a new city 20 miles north of downtown. Dayton spawned a new economic center 15 miles south of its downtown. Columbus seems to be building north of the city far more than south of it’s downtown.
Same here really…Que in “Mountain House” in California…A community created out of dairy land…I am not talking about a subdivision..I am talking about a small city…
IL raised income taxes 60%- RE is next folks
gov workers are keeping their pensions- via your paycheck
IL raised income taxes 60%- RE is next folks ??
Yep…They will get it one way or another…If they cannot grow their way out, confiscation is the next alternative…Problem is when you grow, people come & stay…When you confiscate, people leave…
“Chicago had 33,902 vacant homes at midyear, up 22 percent from the end of 2010, according to DePaul University’s Institute for Housing Studies. In some census tracts in South Side neighborhoods such as Englewood and Back of the Yards, 1 in 6 homes is vacant. Vacancies in suburban Cook County have jumped 79 percent since the end of 2010, to 21,479 homes at midyear. In one census tract in Harvey, the vacancy rate is 17 percent, while it topped 16 percent in a tract that includes parts of Chicago Heights, Steger, Ford Heights and Sauk Village.”
Sounds like the shadow inventory in Chicago has come to light!
‘The national alliance and local chapters in 20 cities have complained about Bank of America to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. They argue that the bank’s neglect of housing in minority neighborhoods violates the U.S. Fair Housing Act, which outlaws discriminatory market practices.’
‘In West Michigan, Haynes said 40 new investigations in the past year showed no improvement in the patterns they complained about last year.’
“The housing market has started to pick up,” said Haynes. “But we did not find a ‘For Sale’ sign on any of the houses in any minority neighborhoods.”
http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2013/11/fair_housing_center_says_bank.html
“RealtyTrac’s VP Daren Blomquist worries about a potential bubble caused by outside investors who may overpay for the foreclosed properties. ‘It could be creating a sort of a bubble. It’s not the same sort of bubble that we saw in the last housing boom and bust where that bubble was facilitated by loose lending…This is a totally different phenomenon in many ways,’ Blomquist said. ‘But it could be pushing prices up to higher than they really should be.’”
The ugliness will start when these folks try to take their money and run.
“The October RE/MAX National Housing Report says that of the 52 largest metro areas surveyed, Detroit had the largest rise in median selling prices with an increase of 45 percent.”
The thing that really makes Detroit such a desirable place to buy a home are the underlying fundamentals; the high quality of life, the phenomenal school system and the exceptionally strong job market. This is why everyone wants to buy a house in Detroit- to LIVE there, right? Well, that AND the balmy weather… Why else would anyone buy a house unless they wanted to live there? What else do you do with an illiquid, high maintenance fixed asset? This is obviously a sustainable trend, right?
they buy in detroit simply because the homes are cheap.
the same rational can be applied to stocks.
people see a 2.00 stock and think its cheap. when in reality the 50.00 stock is actually cheaper.
Remember the golden rule of real estate: location, location , location!
Never , I mean never buy a home in a bad neighborhood cause its cheap!!!!
So, what you are trying to say is, ‘Price is what you pay, but Value is what you get’? And as speculative mania drives the Prices higher, the Value does not necessarily increase proportionally? Or at all?!? Another one of my favorite quotes; “So where do I get this “saved” money?”
A few months ago I found a report of UHS setting up web site in Mandarin for Detroit houses:
‘According to WealthInsight, the Chinese wealthy now have about $658 billion stashed in offshore assets. Many experts say that the wealthy are moving to protect their wealth, their health and their families. With China increasingly cracking down on ill-gotten gains and corruption, many of the politically connected wealthy are looking for safer havens abroad.’
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101225781
This has been the case around here for some time Ben…Long time residents just ask the question; Where is the money coming from ?? Many have no loans when they purchase…
‘I’ve recently joined the ranks of San Francisco landlords who have decided that it’s better to keep an apartment empty than lease it to tenants,’ wrote Scott James in a June column in The New York Times detailing his difficult time evicting a terrible tenant. ‘San Francisco’s anti-landlord housing laws and political climate make it untenable.’ Frustrated landlords have left more than 10,000 units vacant, he argued.’
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/nov/26/tp-san-franciscos-values-send-home-prices-soaring/
‘San Francisco is a sought-after city on a tiny peninsula, which leads to a tight supply. “But the biggest problem with the Bay Area is 75 percent of the land area is off limits to development so you can’t build your way out of this,” said Lawrence McQuillan, senior fellow at the libertarian Independent Institute in Oakland. Even for cities without rent control, such as San Diego, these basic “supply and demand” lessons are useful for anyone whose “values” include affordable housing.’
My son works in San Francisco Ben so he tells me the stories about housing cost there both purchase & rentals…One guy he works with offered him his apartment for a year…He wants to take a sabbatical and travel for a year but he is unwilling to give up his apartment because its under rent control…I think he offered it to my son for around $3,000. per month but he only pays $1,200. per month…
Gee I wonder why he didn’t take it at $3k/month….
Do you think because of the same reason nobody else took it at that price?
The unintended consequences of laws to keep rents in check…
The shocking number in the article was 126 (as in the number of housing units built last year).
That said, I was in SF yesterday…plenty of cranes working.
Why build anymore given the massive oversupply of housing in CA?
This country has become a destination for that money because its leaders are uninterested in legitimately cracking down on ill-gotten gains and corruption. We have a comparative advantage for financial criminality, fostered by feckless politicians and a FIRE sector that doesn’t care if everything’s for sale. As long as asset prices are rising, it’s all good!
Amen azdude, I been involved in real estate all my life, the number one reason a property is a problem is location. good take
The cost to build in Iowa is the same as the cost to build in AZ, OR or CA.
Nice try though.
You forgot to mention Detroit’s low crime rate.
The spooky thing about driving around there is not the people. It’s the lack of people. So much of the city is abandoned that it takes on an eerie, horror-film aspect, especially at night. I admit to appreciating the photos of industrial ruins, if only because they often show that we used to know how to build something beautiful.
“You forgot to mention Detroit’s low crime rate.”
AND the fact that they’re not making any more Detroit, ya’ know…
“AND the fact that they’re not making any more Detroit, ya’ know…”
I dunno. Camden, New Jersey is trying to under-perform Detroit, and from the looks of things I’d say they’re well on their way to pulling it off.
Maybe the article was referring to the Detroit area, as opposed to the City of Detroit. It’s amazing how much real estate reporting doesn’t differentiate between the two.
They’re a distinction without a difference.
Remember, materials and labor costs are within 5% irrespective of location.
Since 90% of the housing market is in existing homes, the cost of building a new home is irrelevant for most people. And I have heard of location, location, location, but not materials and labor, materials and labor, materials and labor…
Hmm… that’s all you’ve heard? You’ve been listening to lying realtors.
And building new for 40% less than a run down 20 year old house is irrelevant?
For a house in the suburbs? Not irrelevant at all. For a house within the Detroit city limits? Totally irrelevant, because until they get things straightened out (i.e. bulldozing large swathes of the city and reorganizing the neighborhoods - 10 years by most estimates), building a new house within the city limits would be a good test for insanity.
As far as dollar amount? A distinction without a difference.
Housing Analyst, you seem to be trying to make some kind of point, but I’ll be damned if I can figure out what it is.
‘The residence first went on the market in 2009 with an $8 million pricetag. That later came down to $7.5 million, and then in mid-2010 it was taken off the market. It came back on in April 2012 with an ask of $5.75 million, which in June dropped to $4.5 million, and later that month it went under contract.’
‘The final sale price of $4.5 million was 56 percent of what the sellers had been asking four years earlier. Campbell, who represented the property the whole time, says the 2009 ask was “appropriate at the time, when there had been another sale [in the building].”
http://www.chicagomag.com/real-estate/November-2013/Sold-Gold-Coast-Condo-That-Sparked-a-Dynasty-Style-Catfight/
Dutch auction is a time-tested method for discovering the new market value after prices have crashed.
‘Wave of disaster’ brewing in U.S. as more borrowers miss payments on housing bubble-era loans’
http://business.financialpost.com/2013/11/26/wave-of-disaster-brewing-in-u-s-as-more-borrowers-miss-payments-on-housing-bubble-era-loans/
Yep. HELOC resets and they extend through 2017.
And don’t forget the sub-prime debacle is just getting underway.
This is a little surprising to me as I assumed half of these loans were wacked when people walked from their underwater properties saddled with HELOC’s.
Retired Fireman: “Where’s my check?”
Pension Manager: “See that abandoned house over there?”
“they immediately decided to buy a 3,600-square-foot plan with five bedrooms — one of them for their baby daughter”
Sounds a little cramped.
Yeah, but they HAD to act fast:
‘They were motivated by low mortgage rates, finding the right property in their price range and discovering that they had to make a fast decision’
HURRY!
Awww. Isn’t that cute. A donkey couple now have a baby mule to add to the stable : )
“Debt Foal”.
LOL
“LOL”
+1 Indeed!
“they immediately decided to buy a 3,600-square-foot plan with five bedrooms — one of them for their baby daughter”
Him: “The kids are three and one.”
Her: “They’ll grow up.” “WHAT?” [w/rattlesnake twitch]
Him: “Okay…”
‘India Office Boom Turns Glut With Vacancies: Real Estate’
‘Demand for offices in India has been declining as Asia’s third-largest economy — labeled a “dream market” by Warren Buffett two years ago — faces the slowest expansion in 11 years, the fastest inflation rate among large emerging markets, and the risk of its debt ratings being cut to junk.’
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-25/india-office-boom-turns-glut-with-vacancies-real-estate.html
Note to self; Warren Buffet is a dope.
Prepare yourselves for Mortgage Meltdown Part II
“Subprime 2.0: Big Banks Exposed To $60 Bil In Bad Gov’t Loans”
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/102113-675996-bofa-wells-citi-jpmorgan-saddled-bad-fha-mortgages.htm
Now the very fundamental point of this pending disaster is that millions of people overpaid for housing from 2009- current.
The banks are not “exposed”. The Fed will buy up all of these loans. That will not prevent house prices from cascading down. It is the FBs who are “exposed”.
Think about it…. The federal reserve is buying $1 TRILLION of houses/year. Of course banks aren’t offering subprime loans. The Federal Gov is offering them and has been since 2008.
And you’re going to risk 30 years of earnings in that environment?
You need your head examined.
Robert Shiller: “Fannie and Freddie Are Propping Up So Much Of The Housing Market”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101228590
Got Cash? (hint: you’re gonna need it)
This just in; that pee on your back is really rain.
‘3 Ways the Fed Has Helped the Average Joe and Not Just the Rich’
‘You may have seen the recent Wall Street Journal op-ed by former Fed official Andrew Huszar that said “We went on a bond-buying spree that was supposed to help Main Street. Instead, it was a feast for Wall Street.”
‘While these “Confessions of a Quantitative Easer” raised a lot of eyebrows and riled the masses on Main Street, the primary point of the piece is said to be inaccurate.’
“That’s simply not true,” says Hugh Johnson, the CEO of Hugh Johnson Advisors, adding that most people simply don’t understand what the Fed was doing or what its strategy was.’
‘In fact, Johnson says while Wall Street’s benefits are clear and well documented, Main Street has benefitted in three keys ways itself.’
1) Unstable Banks Don’t Lend
2) Stocks and Housing Prices Are Way Up
3) Low Rates Boost Borrowing, Ease Deleveraging
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/3-ways-the-fed-has-helped-the-average-joe-and-not-just-the-rich-152647327.html
1) Don’t borrow. It’s deadly to your financial and physical health.
2) Inflated housing prices make everyone poor.
3) See Item #1.
I don’t get #3 on Johnsons benefit sheet. People are only deleveraging through strategic walks and foreclosures. Those who are boosting their borrowing are using the money for $1,000 faucets.
He works for Wall Street. What else is there to get?
He should go pick out a nice congressman. The Joneses have TWO congressmen!
‘We don’t feel sorry for the banks. Look at the bailouts they got. … They have insurance for this kind of stuff.’
Hughes said he’s ‘not ashamed’ of the foreclosure of his house now and of his bankruptcy a year ago. ‘I just did what I had to do,’ he said. ‘… Just like anybody else.’”
Yeah Hughes, don’t cry a river over the banks. And don’t worry about joe taxpayer who will be picking up the tab for your “strategic” walk! The towns books are toast if he becomes mayor! It’s ALWAYS best to party with Other Peoples Money.
Reuters: “A new wave of U.S. mortgage trouble threatens”
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/26/us-usa-mortgages-homeequity-insight-idUSBRE9AP05J20131126
“U.S. borrowers are increasingly missing payments on home equity lines of credit they took out during the housing bubble, a trend that could deal another blow to the country’s biggest banks.
The loans are a problem now because an increasing number are hitting their 10-year anniversary, at which point borrowers usually must start paying down the principal on the loans as well as the interest they had been paying all along.”
It’s going to be difficult for millions to now actually pay for their house. Buckle up for another loosing of Subprime Loan Defaults.
Telegraphing Housing Collapse II
Reuters- “U.S. house price gains to downshift abruptly next year”
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/26/us-property-poll-usa-idUSBRE9AP0YT20131126
price gains won’t pick up again “for years to come.”
LOLZ. When an establishment housing inflationista says something like this, you know there’s going to be big price movement.
Will investors try to dump their ‘holdings’ before price declines are common knowledge?