The Housing Bubble

ps. i currently rent, been on the sidelines since 2009.

not shopping now. No dog in the fight. Sick of getting less than 1% on my abundance of cash though.

Fact: 2003-2005 was an unprecedented economic abberation.

Fact 2: There isn’t a house on the planet that costs more than $150k to build.

I still won, then did it again 2005-2009

Won? lol

Like the blog owner says… it’s the internet.

‘2005-2009′

You must think no one is paying attention to the dates.

‘2005-2009′

Everybody is a genius on the way up…

Jeebus, that was a period of one of the most significant declines in housing history.

We can start a friendly pool. I say I made over $100k on the 2005-09 purchase. You say I lost.
Pd $300k even FSBO, sold for over $400k (cant remember exact amount) and there was a bonus from a class action suit against Goodyear for their radiant heating…. but that’s a long story. you probably heard of it in Flagstaff as well.

let’s bet.

Like I said, timing was good to me.

‘You say I lost’

No, I’d guess you are making the whole thing up. If you get low on cash, you can come wash my Maserati’s when the bikini gals get tired.

“Sick of getting less than 1% on my abundance of cash though.”

+1 Hear ‘ya loud and clear.

Some are just liars. Avocado, r._fraud and J._Fraud happens to be one of them.

What it really boils down to is collectivism versus the individual.

Dare to stray off the plantation of Big Daddy Government, and statist terrorist organization the Southern Poverty Law Center will put your name/group on the “list” of officially designated haterz.

Because statists gonna state…

article linked from drudge (it’s the moonie rag washington times, without drudge their traffic would vanish) tries to rein in anti-government sentiments and maintain sufficiently enthusiastic badge-licking:

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/9/vegas-police-shooting-has-officers-fearing-a-rise-/?page=all#pagebreak

article notes the involvement of the anti-defamation league with police in identifying/tracking ‘hate’ groups

the anti-defamation league is a fascist, zionist terrorist organization. they and the southern poverty law center are the real ‘hate’ groups

and now back to your regularly scheduled badge licking and uniform fetishism, as reported by ‘real journalists’

Somebody on this blog wrote that the guy in Santa Barbara wasn’t mentally ill, just evil.

the anti-defamation league is a fascist, zionist terrorist organization. they and the southern poverty law center are the real ‘hate’ groups

Whom do they hate?

Some background information on both of these organizations:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/06/12/adl-spies/

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Southern_Poverty_Law_Center

Wealthy kid from LA, attending the city college. Living in IV with the UCSB (brighter) kids.

Too bad Oprah doesn’t build a wall on the 101. Keep the kooks from coming north.

I dunno, Holder seems kinda inept for world domination.

so much fear….

Auntie, seriously - the metadata extractors are going to have a hay day with that. FWIW, I’d recommend knocking off the TS Eliot (?) references. The surveillance goons have 8th grade reading levels and are limited to literal interpretations. They are as wont to deem poetry deranged ideation, as anything else. You are aware that you can be detained indefinitely as a suspected enemy of the state.

Auntie Fed, you know I admire your breadth as a scientist who also loves Eliot. However, the metadata extractors are likely to focus in on stuff like that. Fer heaven’s sake, pls. find, and then memorize the number of, the best criminal lawyer in town. After first making his or her acquaintance, of course.

dbl post, apologies.

except supply and demand…..ooops

he is a southern california equity locust (sorry dude) who moved here 20? years ago. i moved from the rental apartment that i lived in during and after grad school in cleveland to a rental apartment here 5 years ago.

and loveland isn’t denver, it’s 50 miles north of here and alot less expensive.

It sure smacks of “I got mine, now f*** you all.” Californicating equity locusts are the worst.

1) I had a whopping 50K equity when we moved out here, so I hardly qualify as an “equity locust”
2) We have have family out here, which was the primary motivation to move here.
3) Whether or not I want people to move here will have no effect on their decision to do so. Fortunately the torrent has slowed. But someday water will become an issue here.

“50K equity”

And what did you pay for your first house here? $125K?

That makes you an equity locust.

And Carl Morris is a carpetbagger from Wyoming.

Nobody is actually from here, we just get to complain about it like we are…

And Carl Morris is a carpetbagger from Wyoming.

Hahah! That’s awesome. Never thought of it that way before. I should run for office.

Oops…forgot to mention one thing. I was born in Craig. Long story…

In the room the posers come and go,
Talking of Michelangelo.

No jobs:
It takes the incentive out of working.

No jobs

There are jobs … just not very good jobs when you consider that a job folding sweaters at The Gap is considered a “good job” and many are held by college grads.

What are you wearing for your webcam shows today Lola?

folding sweaters at The Gap is considered a “good job”

That sounds like it must be pretty low-stress at least.

That sounds like it must be pretty low-stress at least.

And low pay too. They won’t be buying a 500K starter home anytime soon.

“And low pay too. They won’t be buying a 500K starter home anytime soon.”

The PTB is trying to figure out how to make that work.

$150k in student loans? Check.
$500k starter home? Check.
$10 per hour job? Check.

The PTB is trying to figure out how to make that work.

Alchemists believed that a Philosopher’s Stone could change lead into gold.

Folding sweaters in CO sounds better than coal mining.

It seems we have many sour grapes on here. How many owners on here agree prices are too high?

One does wonder why growth is “needed”.

“One does wonder why growth is “needed”.”

That’s why we are doomed as a species. What we need, and the earth needs, is a massive plague to wipe out 2/3 of all people, and in a quick manner.

gr, hbb poster ‘mathguy’ doesn’t appreciate these opinions, as i was informed last week. he suggested i step in front of a bus to ‘do my part’ to reduce the ecological impact of humanity.

as noble as that would be, my minimal contribution will be to not have kids and to adopt shelter pets (who btw are the only real victims of the foreclosure crisis), and he will use his mad math skillz to build a save-the-world™ machine.

That would show some commitment to the cause. Be considerate, though, and do it at some time other than the morning rush hour. You wouldn’t want to make people on the bus late for work.

how long are the working people sit around and watch the non working collect all these freebies?

I guess they have two choices. Grin and bare it or get on the gravy train themselves.

“how long are the working people sit around and watch the non working collect all these freebies?”

There is no time to sit around and watch, as those who still have jobs have the same amount of work on their plates as was there before workforce shrinkage, and fewer workers to do it.

Only politics is like this.

No, not really…

This KFC sucks!
Told ya we should have gone to Taco Bell.
Taco Bell chicken would have sucked even worse!
Yeah whatever, they’re all owned by the same PTB anyway.

But you bow to him anyway. Silly donkey.

This KFC sucks! Told ya we should have gone to Taco Bell. ..they’re all owned by the same PTB

I can walk to a KFC but there is not one Taco Bell in Brazil that I know of. I’d go to a Taco Bell here if I could - but not for their chicken.

Oxy you are not quoting me properly. The word “more” is missing. There are 12 millions more not in the workforce.

Apparently I mistook a dude for an Ox.

“92,009,000 million people out of work. 37.2% of workers not working”

Because all those high school juniors should quit school and get a job?

not everyone can work for the gov. Greece got to 30% then poof

Because all those high school juniors should quit school and get a job?

This has come up before. “All people 16 or older” also includes people in their 80s and 90s.

The author laments that job growth is weak for young people, and then in the next breath he lectures young people to “man up.”

The fact is that there is a global jobs crisis. Not even China, “the world’s factory” is able to provide full employment for its citizens, even though they build ghost cities.

And from what I read some time ago, the problem is getting worse.

“The fact is that there is a global jobs crisis. Not even China, “the world’s factory” is able to provide full employment for its citizens, even though they build ghost cities.

And from what I read some time ago, the problem is getting worse.”

Between outsourcing and automation, job destruction is at the highest rate ever. Decades ago, these production advances were sold as a benefit to the working man, for he would no longer have to slave away for long hours, and would have more time for leisure. What wasn’t discussed was that his pay would shrink dramatically as well, possibly even stop, and the wealth would go straight into the PTB’s pockets. SUCKA!

advances were sold as a benefit to the working man, for he would no longer have to slave away for long hours, and would have more time for leisure. What wasn’t discussed was that his pay would shrink dramatically as well, possibly even stop, and the wealth would go straight into the PTB’s pockets.

That manner of thinking was when capitalism was a system to serve us and not vice-versa - when equal percentages of created wealth passed to the demand side of the formula and not only to the supply.

Now the system so stacked in favor of the SupplySide that the Demand (workers) can’t even work?

Lola,

Didn’t you line your pockets with capitalism? I thought you said you were an employer of many and a high net worth individual. What wasnyou business? How did you make that high net worth if not thru capitalism?

Now you are for redistribution? What about yours?

This is the weakest recovery in modern history and that is due to the failed policies of the 34 years of SupplySideTrickleDown experiment.

Hint:
When you warp an economy to only benefit the rich, that’s what it does.

People saw this coming for decades. It should not surprise anyone objective.

there is 0% growth overall. Certain sectors with pricing power are growing. I dont think the healthcare industry or insurance sector are hurting.

People saw this coming for decades. It should not surprise anyone objective.

When you start admitting that Obama is one of the worse presidents we ever had, I would consider you objective. Since you only post talking points of the Democrats you should not even discuss objectivity.

Since you only post talking points of the Democrats you should not even discuss objectivity.

Wrong. I’m not a Democrat and never have been a member. I post many things against the Dem platform. I just posted one today from the WSJ on Gladstonian Republicanism reducing the size of government and making it better.

I go against the Dems on aspects of major issues such as guns, immigration, God, banks, etc etc.

Obama is one of the worse presidents we ever had

This shows you are not objective and have no sense of American history.

This is how I saw the last election:

Two guys running to man the wheel of the American economy.

Romney: The only way to fix this leaky ship is to steer a course right back into the field of icebergs that damaged it before.

Obama: I’m blind and have no idea how to steer a ship, but, if you return the wheel to me, I’ll do my best to avoid icebergs.

So, I voted for Obama.

Is that like dumb choosing between deaf and blind?

We have lingered in the chambers of the mainstream media;
By journalists wreathed with press passes and salaries from Rupert Murdoch.

Has it ever been about anything other than the 0.1% ???

Yes. Actually most of America’s history of striving for egalitarianism (equality of opportunity not outcome) has been about much more than the .1%. That’s why people died to go to America.

The recent mollycoddling of the .1% is a gross bastardization of the goals of our Republic.

And this gross bastardization of our Republic was caused by an orchestrated effort to redefine the goals and workings of capitalism.

Capitalism is our own invention to serve us. We were not invented to serve capitalism. And America was founded with a main goal to serve all Americans. We’ve strayed from our mission statement the past 40 years.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The fact that all the alternative sources costs much more than the consumption of oil or they would not need government subsidies. Kill your children? That rhetoric is so over the top is idiotic. Maybe you want to kill children but encouraging cars that use lithium for batteries which will be deadly if it gets into the food chain?

What kind of logic lets you believe that if we drastically reduce oil consumption our energy bills will double?

Junk logic. Conserving oil does not have to mean buying cars that use lithium for batteries.

Bad logic and subjectively bad math.

My rhetoric is not idiotic. I have had as many as three in the service at once. I do not want to send them to die in the sand over oil so that we all can drive, drive, drive. This is pretty simple.

I think you have fallen into the trap of “our lifestyle must stay the same”. I ride my bike to get groceries. This will not poison the planet. I would take the train or bus up to the city, if passenger service was once again available. This will reduce oil consumption. Stopping the crazy ethanol mandate would immediately reduce oil consumption. We have a coal fired generation plant in my town that is idle. Obama doesn’t want us to burn our own coal. If we did though, we could run a lot of things on the electricity instead of oil/gas. This stuff is not rocket science, it is politics and resolve.

Blue Skye we do not have a draft and even if we did not import a drop of oil, the Globalists that run this country would still send troops over to the Middle East to protect the world’s economy. I only referred to any attempt to state I am trying to kill your children as idiotic. Certainly, I agree with you on coal and I want NGVs. I want energy independence but don’t believe if we had it we still would not be attempting to influence the middle east as long as our country is run by globalist bankers, that view is naïve.

I have to run for the day.

warmists gonna warm

Whether or not we have an official draft, I can tell you that for a young man faced with the responsibilities of a family and the job prospects of a high school grad these days, there is a very strong draft toward the salary and benefits of the military.

Getting rid of all the phony Keynesian and monetary ’stimuli’ would be the single best thing we could ever do to reduce carbon emissions. If would reduce wasteful consumption spending by at least 15-20% and would have immediate (like next day) effect.

Why are all the ‘progressive’ AGW people so wedded to their economic interventionism that they are blind to this?

Getting rid of all the phony Keynesian and monetary ’stimuli’ would be the single best thing we could ever do to reduce carbon emissions…reduce wasteful consumption spending by at least 15-20% and would have immediate (like next day) effect.

That’s basically saying a global depression much more serious than the one we are emerging from now would be the best thing we could ever do to reduce carbon emissions.

It might be partially true on the surface, but it’s like saying the best thing a fat person could do to lose weight is to starve.

“AGW people so wedded…”

I have the idea that economic interventionism has its own rewards for the masters of the universe. AGW is just a convenient tool. Other tools will be used when that one gets a dull edge.

It’s not ‘partially true on the surface’, it’s totally true. I’m not saying it’s not without it’s secondary consequences.

On the other hand many of those secondary consequences, the first most obvious ones being collapsing energy, housing, and other asset prices, would also be very good.

Yes the collapsing leveraged debt mess that would result would have to be unwound. This all could have been done 5 years ago, when progressives had no re-election pressures, and we (and they) would be reaping the benefits now, but it wasn’t done.

Anyway my main point is that the worldwide environmental side effects of our endless subsidized consumption binge, in the name of ‘recovery’, should at least give some progressives a wee bit of pause every now and then. Sadly, it does not.

The fat boy could use a little starvation now and then.

many of those secondary consequences, the first most obvious ones being collapsing energy, housing, and other asset prices, would also be very good.

Many of those secondary consequences would also be horrendous if I read what you said and are assuming correctly.

Getting rid of all the phony Keynesian and monetary ’stimuli’ would be the single best thing…

I assume you are referring to every major nation doing the same thing at the same time and I assume you assume most of the Reserve Banks money stimuli as “phony”.

In that case, It’s my opinion that the world economy would crash hard and the problems that that would cause would make high home and fuel costs look like a joke compared to the resultant carnage, geopolitical conflicts and starvation.

I think the world has to wean itself off the easy money but no way do I think we can do it in a cold-turkey manner.

the worldwide environmental side effects of our endless subsidized consumption binge, in the name of ‘recovery’, should at least give some progressives a wee bit of pause every now and then.

I agree and I think it does. Many progressives argue for much less consumption as do some real conservatives. But when progressives try to hit that issue from any angle they are portrayed as “commies”.

But you make an interesting point. Maybe the progressives should join in with far-right to slam phony money printing stimuli with the goal to wage a stealth battle over overconsumption/carbon emissions. But would that be “dirty pool”?

Fair enough. Just don’t hit me over the head when I’m skeptical that AGW is pushing us all over the edge in the next couple years or whatever. (Wasn’t it 2013 at one point?).

Because if it really were, we would be pulling out all the stops, including winding down consumption stimuli as fast as we thought we could bear. Instead, there is not even the slightest mention of contemplating doing so, from those that lecture me endlessly about environmental catastrophe.

OK maybe James Howard Kunstler is an exception on that point. But he is hardly representative of the current PTB, he just shares common roots with them way back.

Blue Skye, I completely agree with you, about the military being at first perceived, and then embraced, by young people faced with a dearth of job prospects.

I witnessed this with my own older son, having gotten out of college with a STEM B.S. in the teeth of the recession. It was not much better when he got out, but he had the maturity and perseverance to look at facts straight in the eye, and to take a different strategy.

He admits that his military experience changed him for the better, although it was a daily challenge - even though he was not getting shot at.

How about blaming Obama for passing a massive and complicated law that affected every aspect of capital markets immediately after the greatest financial panic in 80 years? And then wondering why job creation has been crappy (yes, investment of capital is needed to create and grow business)…

As of June 2014, nearly 4 years following Dodd Frank’s passage:

208 Rules have been finalized
42 Rules have missed the deadline (and haven’t even been proposed)
85 Rules have been proposed, but missed the deadline
54 Rules have a future deadline, but haven’t been proposed
9 Rules have a future deadline and have been proposed

People still don’t fully understand how Dodd Frank will affect them–and the complexity of the law favors the largest financial institutions, since the cost of compliance makes it difficult or impossible for smaller organizations to survive.

The US now has the smallest number of banks since the Great Depression. MORE power is in the hands of the largest banks.

And the most important rules, the ones that are actually targeted toward fixing the problems that caused the crash (QRM/Risk Retention Rules and Volcker Rule), have been neutered through the rulemaking process. This is in large part because the politicians who wrote the law didn’t get specific (guess that would be too risky politically–or too much work), but left the details up to someone else (who could be lobbied).

It passed with 3 Republican Senators and 3 Republican Members of the House. There was nothing bipartisan about the law.

When Dodd and Frank were criticized that they left too much to the regulators to write, Dodd said:

“What do they expect me to write, a 100,000-page bill? This is far beyond the capacity, the expertise, the knowledge of a Congress”

Exactly.

And he thinks the regulators are going to do better writing this morass of rules?

Glass Steagall was 34 pages.

Thanks Obama.

Meet Neocon “Doughnut Dolly” Victoria Nuland
Wayne MADSEN | 18.12.2013 | 00:00

During America’s many overseas wars, volunteer women of the United Services Organization (USO), a group designed to boost the morale of U.S. troops in combat zones, served coffee and doughnuts to American soldiers. These women, called “doughnut dollies,” were on the scene in the South Pacific, Korea, and Vietnam.

The U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, Victoria Nuland, has reprised the role of the “Doughnut Dolly” by distributing snacks to anti-government protesters on Maidan square in central Kyiv. Armed with a white plastic shopping bag full of biscuits, Nuland was trying to boost the morale of the protesters in what has become a virtual proxy war between the United States and Russia. Control of Ukraine by NATO has long been a gleam in the eye of American neo-conservative war hawks like Arizona Republican Senator John McCain who followed Nuland by a day among the Maidan protesters.

Following the election of Barack Obama to the presidency in 2008, many Americans believed that the age of the neo-cons was over. Neo-cons, nostalgic for the Cold War, put their own imprimatur on the George W. Bush presidency by having it adopt all the principles of neocon policy dogma, most notably a document known as the Project for the New American Century or “PNAC.” With fresh policy guidance from within the neo-con policymaking lairs of the American Enterprise Institute, Heritage Foundation, Hudson Institute, and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, neocons like Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Scooter Libby, and Robert Kagan set about to plunge the United States into senseless wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and beyond in a never-ending “global war on terrorism.”

Kagan, although not as well-known as the others, continues to steer America into foreign policy fiascos such as U.S. involvement in the domestic affairs of Ukraine. Kagan has an ace-in-the-hole in stirring up tensions in Ukraine because his wife is none other than Victoria Nuland…

Nuland’s career has been one of ensuring that the underpinnings of the Cold War never completely died out in Europe. Her State Department career began as the chief of staff to President Bill Clinton’s Deputy Secretary of State and close friend, Strobe Talbott. It was under Talbott that Nuland helped completely fracture Yugoslavia and ensured that the U.S. slanted against the interests of Russia’s ally, Serbia. After helping to lord over the final end of Yugoslavia, Nuland moved to develop U.S. foreign policy for the former Soviet Union. Ukraine landed right in the middle of Nuland’s target scope.

After the Clinton administration, Nuland went on to become Vice President Dick Cheney’s principal foreign policy adviser. Impressed with her anti-Russian and neo-con stance, Cheney recommended Nuland to be the U.S. ambassador to NATO. After the Bush administration, Nuland ensured that the neo-con apparatchiks continued to have a say in the new president’s foreign policy. Nuland was appointed as the special envoy for Conventional Armed Forces in Europe in a further bid to confront Russia. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton appointed Nuland as her press spokesman after Philip J. Crowley was forced to resign after he publicly complained about the military prison treatment of Army Private Bradley Manning, arrested and jailed for releasing classified State Department cables to WikiLeaks. Nuland, unlike Crowley, would ensure that neo-con swagger would dominate Mrs. Clinton’s State Department. That swagger became abundantly clear in the CIA’s coup against President Manuel Zelaya in Honduras, the U.S.-led overthrow of Muammar Qaddafi in Libya, and U.S. support for uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia.

Nuland would survive the controversy over the October 2012 attack on the U.S. diplomatic mission/CIA facility in Benghazi, Libya. Initially, many conservative Republicans criticized Nuland for her role in providing ambassador to the UN Susan Rice with “talking points” explaining away the failure of the U.S. to protect the compound from an attack that killed U.S. ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other U.S. personnel. All it took was a tap on the shoulder from Nuland’s husband Kagan and his influential friends in the neo-con hierarchy for the criticism of his wife to stop. And stop it did as Nuland was confirmed, without Republican opposition, to be the new Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, a portfolio that gave her a clear mandate to interfere in the domestic policies of Ukraine and other countries, including Russia itself.

Kagan began laying the groundwork for his wife’s continued presence in a Democratic administration when, in 2007, he switched sides from the Republicans and aligned with the Democrats. This was in the waning days of the Bush administration and, true to form, neo-cons, who politically and family-wise hail from Trotskyite chameleons, saw the opportunity to continue their influence over U.S. foreign policy.

With the election of Obama in 2008, Kagan was able to maintain a PNAC presence, through his wife, inside the State Department. Kagan, a co-founder of PNAC, monitors his wife’s activities from his perch at the influential Brookings Institution. And it was no surprise that McCain followed Nuland to Maidan Square. Kagan was one of McCain’s top foreign policy advisers in the 2008 campaign, even though he publicly switched to the Democrats the year before. Kagan ensured that he kept a foot in both parties. Although McCain was defeated by Obama in 2008, Kagan’s influence was preserved when his wife became a top foreign policy adviser to Obama. The root of this control by neo-cons of the two major U.S. political parties is the powerful Israel Lobby and is the reason why in excess of 95 percent of neo-cons are also committed Zionists.

Kagan’s writings and pronouncements from Brookings have had a common thread: anti-Vladimir Putin rhetoric and a strong desire to see Ukraine and Georgia in NATO, Bashar al Assad falling in Syria and thus eliminating a Russian ally, no further expansion of Shanghai Cooperation Organization membership and the eventual collapse of the counter-NATO organization, and the destabilization of Russia’s southern border region by radical Salafists and Wahhabists funded by Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Qatar, not coincidentally, hosts a Brookings Institution office that advises the Qatari government.

But dominance of U.S. foreign policy does not end with Nuland and her husband. Kagan’s brother, Fred Kagan, is another neo-con foreign policy launderer. Residing at the American Enterprise Institute, Fred Kagan was an “anti-corruption” adviser to General David Petraeus. Kagan held this job even as Petraeus was engaged in an extra-marital affair, which he corruptly covered up. Fred Kagan’s wife is Kimberly Kagan. She has been involved in helping to formulate disastrous U.S. policies for the military occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. Fred and Kimberly have also worked on U.S. covert operations to overthrow the government of Iran. No family in the history of the United States, with the possible exception of John Foster and Allen Dulles, has had more blood on its hands than have the Kagans. And it is this family that is today helping to ratchet up the Cold War on the streets of Kyiv.

Victoria Nuland is, indeed, the proper “Doughnut Dolly” for the paid George Soros, U.S. Agency for International Development, National Endowment for Democracy, and Freedom House provocateurs on Maidan Square. Political prostitutes representing so many causes, from nationalistic Ukrainian fascists to pro-EU globalists, require a symbol. There is no better symbol for the foreign-made “Orange Revolution II” than the biscuit-distributing Victoria Nuland. Her unleavened biscuits have found the hungry mouths of America’s “Three Stooges” of ex-boxer and political opportunist Vitaly Klitschko, globalist Arseny Yatsenyuk, and neo-Nazi Oleg Tyagnibok.

Well, they stumbled on to a truth there. When it comes to foreign policy, there is little difference between the two parties. But the focus on this one woman is a strange distraction.

Following the election of Barack Obama to the presidency in 2008, many Americans believed that the age of the neo-cons was over.

No. It is more correct to say following the election of Barack Obama to the presidency in 2008, many Americans believed that the age of the neo-cons would begin to wane. American Foreign policy should generally not turn on a dime if we want to maintain influence and credibility.

When it comes to foreign policy, there is little difference between the two parties.

It is a matter of great degrees. There is a big difference of engaging in 2 major wars compared to meddling in the affairs of a country (Ukraine) who’s majority wants to align more closely with Europe and has only recently gained its “independence”.

And it’s also hypocritical to see the Right criticize Obama on promoting Ukraine’s greater alliance with Europe only a couple months after saying Palin was right about Putin’s danger in coveting more territory.

The above is a good example of the absurdity of seeing everything in right versus left.

‘How John McCain came to pick Sarah Palin’

The neocons “picked” Palin. The neocons always wanted to carve off Ukraine. NATO is the army of the Empire. EU membership puts them in NATO.

So here we see a neocon straight out doing what the neocons want, and we’re supposed to believe there is any body but neocons running things?

BTW, I don’t think the neocons run the Empire. They are just little tag-alongers hoping to advance their agenda.

a good example of the absurdity of seeing everything in right versus left.

That’s why I wrote “American Foreign policy should generally not turn on a dime if we want to maintain influence and credibility.”
Which is the antithesis of seeing everything in right versus left in the context of the new Democratic administration’s policies vs the prior Republican administration.

Rio, consider this quote from Jimmy Carter:

Let our position be absolutely clear: An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Doctrine

Consider also the “no fly zone” and the sanctions on Iraq that were enforced during the Clinton administration. These had a devastaing effect on the life of ordinary Iraqis.

Now, try to imagine what would have happened if Al Gore had been president on September 11, 2001. I think that he would probably have decided to invade Afghanistan.

Regarding Iraq, it’s likely that a fuss would have been made about Saddam and his alleged links to al-Qaeda and WMDs. It’s possible that Gore would have responded just with bombs and missiles. (Of course, some of these, as always, would miss their targets and kill inncoent civilians.) On the other hand, it’s possible that he would fell the need as a Democrat to show his toughnness and invade just like Bush did.

An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America,

What was false about that view? At that time the USA was heavily dependent on Gulf oil and had been crippled by our dependence on it. We had a The 1967 Oil Embargo, The 1973 oil crisis and the The 1979 energy crisis. We were also in a Cold War with USSR eyeballing the Gulf. There ARE such things as national interest. And Carter wanted the USA to become much more energy independent, which would have lessened the role of the neocon. America and Reagan/Bush would have none of it.

I seriously doubt Al Gore would have invaded Iraq. They didn’t try to assassinate his father.

Consider also the “no fly zone” and the sanctions on Iraq that were enforced during the Clinton administration.

See above on being still dependent on Gulf Oil, The region being destabilized, Kuwait having been invaded, our vital national interests being affected by the lack of being energy independent causing a situation which made a Neocon policy acceptable to America.

“Well, they stumbled on to a truth there. When it comes to foreign policy, there is little difference between the two parties. But the focus on this one woman is a strange distraction.”

7 February 2014

Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call

Nuland: [Breaks in] I think Yats is the guy who’s got the economic experience, the governing experience. He’s the… what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week, you know. I just think Klitsch going in… he’s going to be at that level working for Yatseniuk, it’s just not going to work.

Pyatt: Yeah, no, I think that’s right. OK. Good. Do you want us to set up a call with him as the next step?

Nuland: My understanding from that call - but you tell me - was that the big three were going into their own meeting and that Yats was going to offer in that context a… three-plus-one conversation or three-plus-two with you. Is that not how you understood it?

Pyatt: No. I think… I mean that’s what he proposed but I think, just knowing the dynamic that’s been with them where Klitschko has been the top dog, he’s going to take a while to show up for whatever meeting they’ve got and he’s probably talking to his guys at this point, so I think you reaching out directly to him helps with the personality management among the three and it gives you also a chance to move fast on all this stuff and put us behind it before they all sit down and he explains why he doesn’t like it.

Nuland: OK, good. I’m happy. Why don’t you reach out to him and see if he wants to talk before or after.

Pyatt: OK, will do. Thanks.

Nuland: OK… one more wrinkle for you Geoff. [A click can be heard] I can’t remember if I told you this, or if I only told Washington this, that when I talked to Jeff Feltman [United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs] this morning, he had a new name for the UN guy Robert Serry did I write you that this morning?

Jonathan Marcus: An intriguing insight into the foreign policy process with work going on at a number of levels: Various officials attempting to marshal the Ukrainian opposition; efforts to get the UN to play an active role in bolstering a deal; and (as you can see below) the big guns waiting in the wings - US Vice-President Joe Biden clearly being lined up to give private words of encouragement at the appropriate moment.

Pyatt: Yeah I saw that.

Nuland: OK. He’s now gotten both Serry and [UN Secretary General] Ban Ki-moon to agree that Serry could come in Monday or Tuesday. So that would be great, I think, to help glue this thing and to have the UN help glue it and, you know, Fuck the EU.

Jonathan Marcus: Not for the first time in an international crisis, the US expresses frustration at the EU’s efforts. Washington and Brussels have not been completely in step during the Ukraine crisis. The EU is divided and to some extent hesitant about picking a fight with Moscow. It certainly cannot win a short-term battle for Ukraine’s affections with Moscow - it just does not have the cash inducements available. The EU has sought to play a longer game; banking on its attraction over time. But the US clearly is determined to take a much more activist role.

Pyatt: No, exactly. And I think we’ve got to do something to make it stick together because you can be pretty sure that if it does start to gain altitude, that the Russians will be working behind the scenes to try to torpedo it. And again the fact that this is out there right now, I’m still trying to figure out in my mind why Yanukovych (garbled) that. In the meantime there’s a Party of Regions faction meeting going on right now and I’m sure there’s a lively argument going on in that group at this point. But anyway we could land jelly side up on this one if we move fast. So let me work on Klitschko and if you can just keep… we want to try to get somebody with an international personality to come out here and help to midwife this thing. The other issue is some kind of outreach to Yanukovych but we probably regroup on that tomorrow as we see how things start to fall into place.

Nuland: So on that piece Geoff, when I wrote the note [US vice-president's national security adviser Jake] Sullivan’s come back to me VFR [direct to me], saying you need [US Vice-President Joe] Biden and I said probably tomorrow for an atta-boy and to get the deets [details] to stick. So Biden’s willing.

Pyatt: OK. Great. Thanks.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 - 116k -

President Obama Meets with Prime Minister Yatsenyuk of Ukraine

Megan Slack
March 12, 2014
07:21 PM EDT

Today, President Obama held a bilateral meeting with Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk of Ukraine.

In their meeting, the President and Prime Minister Yatsenyuk discussed how to find a peaceful resolution to Russia’s ongoing military intervention in Crimea that would respect Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity. They also discussed support the international community can provide to help Ukraine confront its economic challenges, and the importance of uniting Ukraine and working to fulfill the aspirations of the Ukrainian people as they prepare for May presidential elections.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/…/03/12/president-obama-meets-prime-minister-yatsenyuk-ukraine - 67k -

G7 promises to ‘move swiftly’ with sanctions against Russia

By Laura Smith-Spark, Gul Tuysuz and Victoria Butenko,

CNN
Fri April 25, 2014

Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk accused Russia of aiming to occupy his country “militarily and politically,” claiming that Russia wants to start a third world war.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/25/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/ -

Biden son’s appointment to Ukraine gas company raises no conflict of interest, White House says

REUTERS / Wednesday, May 14, 2014, 8:33 AM

http://www.nydailynews.com/…/white-house-denies-conflict-hunter-biden-article-1.1791465 -

Rio,

At this point, we don’t get much oil from the Middle East. There a number of countries much closer that provide most of what import. That was probably also the case during the Clinton Administration.

More importantly, the Persian Gulf is not our gulf. It’s not our job to police it. Think about it this way. The US and Canada are major exporters of wheat. It’s in the vital national interests of many countries around the world that we produce and export lots of wheat. What would we think if some foreign navy decided to control the waters off our coasts to make sure that the shipments of wheat keep moving? How about a foreign power making threats to impose regime change on us if they didn’t like something our government did?

Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,
The muttering retreats
Of realtoRs in one-night cheap hotels
And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:
Streets that follow like a tedious argument
Of the seller’s intent
To lead you to an overwhelming question….

there a number of countries much closer that provide most of what import. That was probably also the case during the Clinton Administration.

Actually, distance is mostly irrelevant to the global price of oil’s affect on America’s national interest in light of boycotts from the world’s largest oil producer. Oil is fungible.

What would we think if some foreign navy decided to control the waters off our coasts to make sure that the shipments of wheat keep moving?

Apples and oranges in light of the West’s role in MidEast oil capacity development. Foreign powers have not had decades long deals and not spent billions of dollars and lost thousands of lives for almost a century developing USA wheat. Like it or not, that is what position we are in, the deals made and the history. A lot of what we did is dirty, but less dirty than what they attempt to do to us sometimes and to their own people all the time (especially their women) imo.

How about a foreign power making threats to impose regime change on us if they didn’t like something our government did?

Well if they had close to the power to do it that we do, and it was to change something we did approaching the MidEast’s spitting on democracy, free-speech, the treatment of their women and their total lack of development outside of our technology to develop their oil, I would not know what to think.

Re slicing and dicing —

My point is at some point it comes down to individuals and communities, not race or even the racial makeup of those communities. Resources and systems play a big role in forming the minds of kids of any race and obviously that includes white kids.

What’s the point of high scores anyway if the kids will become bankers, lawyers and politicians?

And the afternoon, the evening, mocks the homemoaners with its Mariachi band.
Prodded by pointed fingers,
Asleep … tired … or the stench malingers.

but Maryland would clearly benefit from the federal government hiring employees and attracting higher IQ people.

I can’t get to the graph, but A-dan are you being sarcastic?

Dan would say that you need to test them before coming to that conclusion. Have you done that?

The black people living in my building who were born in Nigeria and Sudan are superior to the black people living in my building who were born in USA.

Apparently they are not superior economically if they are all living in your same building.

Maybe I’m just an African-African supremacist who is continentalist against African-Americans.

When those African immigrants get their citizenship they’ll be African-Americans.

Apparently they are not superior economically if they are all living in your same building.

Not necessarily. Some might have low pay jobs who are stretching to live in the building; while others may have high pay jobs who are living well below their means. The second group is economically superior.

As for “testing,” everybody does that to everybody, every day, just in casual conversation. For example, the moment I posted that I had bought a house, this blog tested me and found me economically inferior.

When those African immigrants get their citizenship they’ll be African-Americans.

Not true. A guy at work calls himself Nigerian American.

The second group is economically superior.

I thought of that but the variables can go on forever.

And I doubt the black people living in his building who were born in Nigeria and Sudan have a superior stance on women’s rights or women’s place in society.

MightyMike would say that you would have to test the Nigerians and Sudanese in order to come to that conclusion.

Yeah, this can go on forever…

I was referring to Dan’s fascination with IQ tests.

The only way to win against Mr. Banker is to not play his game.

But because people are told that they are smart they will forever continue to play.

You can’t lose with the stuff I use.

I am giving you a dreidel for Christmas, Mr. B.

Lola runs a school for orphans, giving back his riches to the poor.