August 21, 2014

Bits Bucket for August 21, 2014

Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.

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Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 02:14:55

“Why pay massively inflated asking prices for resale housing when you can build it for far less?”

Exactly. We and anyone else in our business are profitable at $55/square foot (lot, labor materials and profit). Why pay triple that amount for a run down 20 year old house/

Comment by Jingle Male
2014-08-21 02:34:05

Finally…….the architect of the sub-prime housing crises may get his just rewards.

Prosecutors are going after Mozilo thanks to the ten year statute of limitations provided by the Financial Institutions Reform, Recovery and Enforcement Act — a law passed during the Savings and Loans Crisis back in 1980s. Bloomberg’s sources say, however, that a lawsuit could be months away.

I hope he gets 20-years in cross bar hotel.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-21 06:15:35

I read a book about the demise of Countrywide a few years back. To my recollection, it casts Mozillo as a tragic figure who truly believed he was helping the families whose household financial balance sheets were capsized by Countrywide subprime loans.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-21 06:20:32

The Foreclosure of America: Life Inside Countrywide Home Loans and the Selling of the American Dream
April 6, 2010
by Adam Michaelson

Hardcover $2.47
32 Used from $0.64
21 New from $0.66
3 Collectible from $1.95

Paperback $6.40
22 Used from $0.54
15 New from $0.71

Comment by "Auntie Fed, why won't you love ME?"
2014-08-21 14:25:29

I knew a lady whose daughter worked for Countrywide. The young lady said that the entire company was unbelievably corrupt. She said Mozillo was a major scumbag. This was before everything popped.

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Comment by AztoORtoCOtoOR
2014-08-21 17:27:22

While living in AZ, became friends with a guy who was working for Countrywide in 2004. His quote “Your house is a tool for building wealth”. This was just before he lost both houses to foreclosure in 2005/2006. One of the houses he paid $1,000,035 for with like 60,000 down. Miss those fun times in AZ.

Comment by Guillotine Renovator
2014-08-21 19:16:19

“She said Mozillo was a major scumbag.”

Never trust anyone with orange skin.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-22 00:34:40

Someone I know had a boyfriend who was a corporate officer at Countrywide. He used some kind of liar loan to purchase an investment condo in San Diego, then when the bubble blew up, he walked away, leaving the lender holding the bag.

Last I heard, he had relocated to a central American country to start a business. Don’t know if this was out of personal preference or necessity, but it certainly does bring to mind all the Chinese rats presently leaving their home country to wash up on California shores.

Comment by j-j-j-joe
2014-08-21 06:24:30

I think I read the same book, back in 08 or 09. Angelo was a true believer, he worked almost his whole life in the mortgage business. He was smart enough to realize how big the market was and how important the right connections were (with both parties, with civil servant regulators, with banks and lawyers) but too dumb to appreciate the big picture. He was in that perfect ~110 IQ range where people can understand enough of something to be dangerous, yet not really be a brilliant con artist (think Madoff).

I actually think Angelo is less of a crook than Albert Lord (look him up). Lord was just smarter about it and more devious. In both cases, these guys took over GSE’s, privatized the gains, socialized the risks, and portrayed themselves as champions of the free market and American ingenuity. In reality, they just paid off enough people in both of our two crappy political parties.

The real tragedy is that our system ALLOWED and even ENCOURAGED the things that Countrywide did. That said, if there is evidence to the contrary, where they can show that Mozillo really formed intent to defraud, then they should obviously charge him and send him to prison.

I hate to tell you, though, that white collar prison is a joke. He’ll likely end up in Connecticut, where Martha Stewart and Henry Blodgett and others have served. It’s not like he’s going to be in maximum security prison in Nebraska.

Comment by Ben Jones
2014-08-21 06:25:49

‘20-years in cross bar hotel’

The statute of limitations just ran out, so Holder let him go. This is a civil matter.

‘In June 2008, Conde Nast Portfolio reported that several influential lawmakers and politicians, including Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad, and former Fannie Mae CEO Jim Johnson, received favorable mortgage financing from Countrywide by virtue of being “Friends of Angelo”.[15][16]

Senator Dodd received a $75,000 reduction in mortgage payments from Countrywide at allegedly below-market rates on his Washington, D.C. and Connecticut homes. Michael Moore’s Capitalism: A Love Story shows on film that this was actually over a million dollars of a sweet-heart mortgage deal.[15][17] Dodd nonetheless called for stronger regulation of mortgage lenders and proposed that predatory lenders should face criminal charges.[18]

‘Clinton Jones III, senior counsel of the House Financial Services Subcommittee on Housing and Community Opportunity, and “an adviser to ranking Republican members of Congress responsible for legislation of interest to the financial services industry and of importance to Countrywide.” was given special treatment. Jones is now state director for federal residential-mortgage bundler Freddie Mac. Alphonso Jackson, acting secretary of HUD at the time and long-time friend and Texas neighbor of President Bush, received a discounted mortgage for himself and sought one for his daughter. “In 2003, using V.I.P. loans for nearly $1 million apiece, Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s chairman and C.E.O. from 1999 to 2004, twice refinanced his seven-bedroom home, which has a pool and movie theater.”[18]‘

‘Though Mozilo donated extensively to both parties during the Clinton Administration, he himself was reportedly a registered Republican.[19] Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi’s son Paul Pelosi, Jr. also received a loan with Countrywide. Barbara Boxer, Adam H. Putnam, Richard C. Holbrooke, James E. Clyburn, and Donna Shalala are among those with mortgages from Countrywide. CBS News has obtained the following list of then-Fannie Mae employees whose names have been turned over to investigators as having received VIP loans from Countrywide:[20]‘

The list of Fannie Mae people who got these loans is too long to post here. Hmm, why were they so special?

Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2014-08-21 06:32:08

Ahhh, yes the “Friends of Angelo” club. I remember it now.

Comment by palmetto
2014-08-21 06:38:08

Statute of limitations ran out.

Timing is everything.

Comment by 2banana
2014-08-21 07:22:14

When does the statue of limitations for criminal charges run out for John Corzine?

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Comment by Rental Watch
2014-08-21 10:41:57

Doesn’t matter. He’ll have a pardon coming before Obama leaves the White House.

Can you even pardon someone before they’ve been convicted?

Heck, Obama will just write an executive order making it so.

Comment by oxide
2014-08-21 12:21:59

I believe so. Accodring to wiki, Ford pardoned Nixon before any indictment, and Carter offered pardons to any Vietnam draft dodger even without a charge. (I think the dodger had to identify himself to get the pardon, which many criticized as being an admission of a crime.)

Comment by Jingle Male
2014-08-21 14:05:08

Bummer it is civil and not criminal. I was hoping Angelo would go from a homeowner to a tenant, just like all the people who got his product. Of course we would have to feed him 3 squares a day……not so excited about that part!

Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2014-08-21 06:30:08

I believe that the deadline has passed for criminal charges and this is just another civil suit. He will get a slap on the wrist monetary fine and then Obomba and Holder will stage a press conference where they will Dutch-Rudder one anothers’ egos and pretend that they care. The sycophants will rejoice and proclaim victory and afterward they will quietly make large campaign contributions through intermediaries. Rinse and repeat.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-21 04:05:12

Is it accurate to say China’s housing market is “plunging”?

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-21 04:08:39

This is the first instance I recall reading about where houses were used as poker chips for casino gambling!

Don’t bet the house
China’s housing market is plunging—and dragging Macau’s casino revenue with it
By Gwynn Guilford @sinoceros August 21, 2014
Stakes are getting higher. Reuters/Tyrone Siu

Macau’s lucky streak appears finally over. Casinos in the former Portuguese colony—now the biggest gambling center on the planet—brought in 4% less revenue in July, compared with the same month last year. This was the second consecutive month of declining revenue.

Its casino stocks are suffering too.

What’s behind the meltdown? Conventional wisdom offers three explanations: the distraction of the World Cup, Chinese president Xi Jinping’s crackdown on corruption crackdown (paywall), and government tightening of capital outflows (paywall).

But there’s another factor likely at play: real estate. While high-rolling Chinese “VIP room” customers—usually wealthy businessmen—sometimes gamble on credit, it’s also common for them use property as collateral, says research firm JL Warren Capital in a recent note.

Or at least, they used to. After peaking in late 2013, China’s housing market has been crumbling at an accelerating pace. Home prices in July fell in 64 of the 70 cities the Chinese government tracks (compared with the previous month), the most since January 2011. In Beijing, prices fell 1%, the first monthly decline since Apr. 2012.​

This is making it harder to use property as collateral when paying gambling debts, says JL Warren. And even when indebted gamblers do find buyers for the property, the reluctance of banks to grant mortgages these days is delaying final sales. As a result, it’s taking twice as long—now at least six months—to pay back debts. It’s this lack of easy cash that is making wealthy Chinese VIPs more conservative at Macau’s VIP baccarat tables.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-21 04:12:02

Realty Today
Posted by Rapti Gupta on Aug 13, 2014 06:09 AM EDT
Short Term Rentals: The New Trend in Chinese Property Market

Amid the whirlwind of falling home prices and dwindling property sales, China has found a new way to cope with the real estate tragedy - short term rentals.

The Wall Street Journal is reporting that in a matter of months, several short term rental firms have sprung up in the world’s second largest economy, to help property owners and developers make some money while the market is still in dire straits.

“Just like how carpooling is becoming more popular, people are becoming more comfortable with renting out their assets when no one is using them,” Chen Chi, chief executive of website - a rental website like AirBnB - told the publication.

The Journal asserts that this is just a recent development. Earlier, the Chinese home owners avoided renting or letting out their properties to tenants as they wanted to flip the unused, brand new homes for a higher price later.

But, considering the state of the Chinese housing market, they are now resorting to these short term rentals. According to, which cites data from the National Bureau of Statistics, rents in Chinese cities have been soaring for 42 straight months. Beijing and Shanghai are now the most expensive cities to rent in.

While, the rental segment is heating up, ownership is still low.

Home sales in China have been plunging to new lows every month. According to MarketWatch, sales fell 10.5 percent in the first seven months of 2014 - a 9.2 percent fall from a year earlier and an indicator of a weakening real estate market.

There was a time when high property prices and strict purchase regulations kept several homes empty. In fact, large developments remained unoccupied due to high price and restrictions. Last year, CBS’ 60 Minutes explored the ghost cities of China - the abandoned, grim, civil constructions that stood unpopulated.

While some experts said that the abandonment was a phase and would pass soon, vacancies in China have remained high. The government is now doing its best to cut back on the restriction and control a hard crash the market could witness. And, industry players say that the efforts will work.

“The current biggest problem of China’s property industry is that the housing inventories are too high. But the declines are still not very big. With more cities relaxing curbs and the economy stabilizing, the property market will gradually stabilize,” Liu Li-Gang, chief economist at ANZ Bank in Hong Kong, told Bloomberg in a phone interview today last month.

Comment by tresho
2014-08-21 11:19:16

they wanted to flip the unused, brand new homes for a higher price later
The Chinese have some kind of a fetish for “unused, brand new homes”. Not only is a bridegroom supposed to “own” a home before marriage there, it’s supposed to be “unused, brand new”. So this precious property must be kept vacant until the right buyer comes along.

Comment by oxide
2014-08-21 12:13:54

Can’t be sullying the unsullied bride with a sullied house, I guess.

Although in a practial sense I can’t blame them. Old houses in China are not likely to be well-built or aesthetically pleasing, like the Chicago Craftsmans or Carmel Storybooks or Westchester Tudors.

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Comment by tresho
2014-08-21 12:35:14

One point I was trying to make was that any house in China occupied, however briefly, is considered used, no matter how recently built or how excellent its design & construction is. However, a “new” house, which which has been sitting unoccupied for years, is still considered “new” and inherently far more valuable. Weird. Not even opulent Chinese emperors acted that way.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-21 04:14:10

7:34 am ET Aug 14, 2014
Economy & Business
Macro Horizons: European, China Slowdowns Leave U.S., U.K. Looking Isolated

CHINA: New data offered evidence of a significant slowdown in financial activity in July. New lending all but evaporated, plunging to 273.1 billion yuan in July from June’s 1.97 trillion yuan, the slowest rate of credit expansion since the fall of Lehman Brothers. And July new home sales fell 17.9% from a year earlier and 28.2% on the month.

This suggests that the second-quarter improvement in Chinese GDP was likely an aberration. It also indicates that the government’s various stimulus measures – some of which were supposed to encourage home sales and open up credit to small and medium-sized businesses and homes – aren’t drawing enough demand from those sources to offset the nervous pullback by banks from lending to bigger, riskier borrowers. It’s a reminder that when debt has become such a critical part of the growth model, eventually something has to give, even in a more centrally managed economy such as China’s. There’s only so much command that Beijing can have over these private actors. There may well be more stimulus to come, but if that just perpetuates a buildup of bad debt, the problems are going to be more extreme down the road. China has the resources to soak up the problems of its banking sector but it is going to find it extremely difficult to manage the real economy and will likely have to kiss goodbye to the farcical notion of being able to deliver a hard growth target like its current-year 7.5% number. (MC)

Comment by j-j-j-joe
2014-08-21 06:40:05

China’s growth rate has been largely due to demographics and technology. Demographically, they’re screwed because their working-age population is going to level off and fall in the coming decades. By 2050, India, not China, will be the most populous country.

Technologically, it could go either way, but there are robust arguments than 3D printing and automation in general will favor production of finished goods closer to where they are needed, on a smaller scale basis (manufacturing to become more specialized, less standardized).

Lastly you have the issues of law & intellectual property. No one wants their IP floating around China if it can be helped. And no one wants to put their money in China long-term because it’s a terrible venue for resolving disputes. (This is why so many insurers, reinsurers, and megafunds domicile in the islands and then use US law in their contracts. It’s worth the extra money it costs because you get enforceable rights–just ask Mitt Romney where he puts his money.)

Comment by tresho
2014-08-21 11:22:10

it’s a terrible venue China still hasn’t figured out the concept of “rule of law”. The way many other countries are trending, it may not matter in 50 more years.

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Comment by oxide
2014-08-21 13:27:20

Including this country, by the way. Merit, what’s that. It’s all about family, face, and race.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-21 04:18:39

Leju, E-House EPS Strong Amid China Housing Fears
Posted 08/20/2014 05:53 PM ET

Chinese real estate plays Leju Holdings (NYSE:LEJU) and parent E-House China Holdings (NYSE:EJ) reported strong Q2 earnings Wednesday despite fears of a downturn in China’s housing market.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-21 04:20:12

Beijing’s land prices hit record despite housing downturn
BEIJING Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:50am EDT

Aug 21 (Reuters) - Authorities in China’s capital sold a plot of land at a record 7.46 billion yuan ($1.2 billion) on Wednesday, despite analysts belief that a general downtrend in the property market is worsening.

Located in the west of central Beijing, the plot was sold at a price of 63,377 yuan per square meter, more than double the bid submitted in the auction, data from the Beijing Land Consolidation and Reserve Center showed.

The result was in stark contrast to the cooldown in China’s land and property market, which has been dampened by the effects of slower economic growth and a near five-year government campaign to temper fast-rising home prices.

Property sales and prices turned south this year, with new home prices dropping in July for a third consecutive month, official data showed.

Hit by the downturn, developers are no longer as well funded as before and have become cautious when buying land. Some have even given a cold shoulder to expensive state-owned land that is up for sale.

“The high price premium for the plot was due mainly to its unique location in the downtown area,” said Zhang Xu, a property analyst at a property consultancy, Home Link, in Beijing.

Comment by taxpayers
2014-08-21 05:54:39

6 month lag on “pricing” it’s like the 06 peak in US it was spring of 05.

Comment by Jingle Male
2014-08-21 13:56:30

$41,000,000 per acre. What’s the prob?

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Comment by Jingle Male
2014-08-21 14:06:57

….you can always grow some bok choy on it……farmland.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-21 04:24:07

China Real Estate Bubble Continues To Deflate
By Reuters
on August 18 2014 8:09 AM
China property market
A potential buyer looks at a model of Riva, one of the latest developments by Sun Hung Kai Properties, in Hong Kong February 19, 2014. REUTERS/Bobby Yip

BEIJING — China’s new home prices fell in July from June for a third straight month and price softness spread to more major cities, underlining a worsening property downturn despite efforts by many local governments to shore up the sector.

“The uncertainties on the outlook of the property market have kept potential home buyers standing on the sidelines,” said Liu Jianwei, a senior statistician at the National Bureau of Statistics (NBS), said in a statement accompanying the data.

China’s once-heated housing market has slowed this year as sales and prices turned south in their biggest pull-back in two years, driven in part by the cooling economy and by the national government’s five-year-long campaign to keep price rises in check.

The fall in prices adds to concerns about the health of the economy and followed news last week that property investment slowed and property sales fell sharply in July.

“We expect home prices will continue to drop in coming months due to increasingly pessimistic market sentiment,” said Yan Yuejin, a property analyst at real estate services firm E-House China in Shanghai.

Comment by azdude
2014-08-21 05:09:25

Houses and stocks must go up to keep the system going.

It seems like unlimited amounts of money can be created out of asset appreciation.

With QE, Fractional reserve lending and asset appreciation it allows for endless dollars to be created out of thin air.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 05:13:34

Which simply means the collapse will be far more extreme.

Remember….. Houses depreciate rapidly.

Comment by Blue Skye
2014-08-21 05:15:22

“money can be created out of asset appreciation”

That idea right there is what keeps you from understanding what is happening…or how it will end.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2014-08-21 06:57:03

It seems like unlimited amounts of money can TEMPORARILY APPEAR TO be created out of asset appreciation.


Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2014-08-21 04:15:29

Six years of non-stop QE, and yet markets are betting on moar stimulus because the trillions lavished on bankers has somehow failed to stimulate the economy for the 99%.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-21 06:22:41

As long as FOMC can keep the interested public convinced that more QE is the ticket for eventually improving the lot of the 99%, I see no reason why they ever need to stop.

Comment by Ryan
2014-08-21 08:18:43

It cannot stop. What happens when it stops? Who buys up all of the treasuries unless yields rise. How do you finance 17 trillion in debt?

Once it stops, it all stops.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 08:46:27

And it will.

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Comment by tresho
2014-08-21 11:29:38

Who buys up all of the treasuries unless yields rise
Somebody seems to be buying them, no matter what the yield is. I got the following today from the Treasury:
Description: 4-Year 8-Month TIPS
Term: 4-Year 8-Month
Series: X-2019
Interest Rate: 0-1/8%
High Yield: -0.281%
Price: $103.623896
Allotted at High: 52.23%
Accrued Interest*: $0.47237
Total Tendered: $39,686,578,200
Total Accepted: $16,000,008,200
Issue Date: 08/29/2014

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Comment by goon squad
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-21 04:25:29

Is Janet Yellen’s upcoming speech likely to give the stock market the lift it needs?

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-21 04:27:06

Jackson Hole Rally at Risk as Investors Preempt Yellen
By Simon Kennedy Aug 20, 2014 2:28 AM PT
Aug. 18 (Bloomberg) — Michael McKee previews the Fed’s meeting in Jackson Hole, WY. McKee speaks on “In The Loop.” (Source: Bloomberg)

The end of the Jackson Hole bull run may be at hand.

Every time then-Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke spoke at the annual monetary policy symposium in the shadow of Wyoming’s Teton mountains since 2007, stocks rallied. With Janet Yellen set to make her first speech to the conference as central bank chief on Aug. 22, investors may be setting themselves up for a fall, according to Steven Englander, global head of G-10 foreign exchange strategy at Citigroup Inc.

“We worry that dovishness is increasingly anticipated and that by the time we get to her talk anything less than ‘full dovishness’ will be a disappointment,” said Englander, describing “full dovishness” as giving more room for extended monetary stimulus.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-21 04:28:26

Geriatric shoe-shine boy moment for Mr Market: My eighty-something parents told me last night that they just started paying attention to moves on the Dow Jones Industrial Average (after fifty-something years of ignoring it!).

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2014-08-21 05:10:52

By keeping interest rates below the level of real inflation, the Fed has practically forced seniors and others on fixed incomes to play in Wall Street’s rigged casino as the purchasing power of their savings are eroded due to inflation and the debauchery of the currency.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-21 06:25:28

My dad has been hanging out in the Wall Street casino den, thanks to his investment advisers over the years. But I recently succeeded to talk him into firing the advisers and cashing in his chips. (Did something similar in Spring 2007.)

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Comment by rms
2014-08-21 07:18:12

“Geriatric shoe-shine boy moment for Mr Market: My eighty-something parents told me last night that they just started paying attention to moves on the Dow Jones Industrial Average (after fifty-something years of ignoring it!).”

Which direction was it moving?

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2014-08-21 04:34:55

In today’s centrally-planned Keynesian speculative economy, Yellen will keep hitting “Ctrl-P’ despite six straight years of the failure of this policy to do anything more than enrich the .1% and spur malinvestment while the 99% sink deeper into recession.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2014-08-21 04:26:20

Time to up your donations to the Republicrats, Mozilo. Then this can all go away.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2014-08-21 04:31:03

Skank of America reaches a $17B deal with the government that absolves it from any real prosecution for its role in the massive fraud and criminality that enabled the housing bubble. No criminal prosecutions, naturally.

Comment by goon squad
2014-08-21 05:51:15

Amy Hoak guest column in the Washington Post:

Stiff competition? It’s a race between debt donkeys digging their own graves…

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 06:16:32

That’s what it is….. throwing good money after bad on what is always a deprecating asset.

Rent for a fraction of the cost until this mess finally plays out.

Comment by goon squad
2014-08-21 06:43:23

I briefly had my 15 year old Honda on the market, but was disappointed with the thickness and quality of the paper of the letters, and the unprofessional penmanship, so I took it off the market. Which was the right decision, since it’s value is now increasing by $1,000 a week…

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 06:48:54

Yeah…. you’re better off holding onto it. Don’t give it away.

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Comment by j-j-j-joe
2014-08-21 07:02:20

“but… but… think of the $500 alternators!”

(RAL to me in 2011)

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 07:08:31

That dude really damaged you.

Comment by j-j-j-joe
2014-08-21 07:35:50

“that guy”

Oh RAL, never change.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 07:38:03

You seem to talk about the dude alot.

Comment by Puggs
2014-08-21 09:37:18

Seriously!??!?! Were all these people not alive during 2008?!!??!

Comment by cactus
2014-08-21 10:52:19

Vohra and Patel closed in June for $910,500. Before the closing, they met with Long a few times to learn more about the home’s history. All three continue to stay in touch — it’s a “very friendly” relationship, Patel says.

Comment by Puggs
2014-08-21 12:32:28

Well isn’t that special.

Comment by tresho
2014-08-21 12:38:44

It’s so touching. They should make a movie. “Romancing the Crap Shack”

Comment by oxide
2014-08-21 11:08:21

Here is the house they wrote — by hand in cursive, oh my! — the love letter for

Row house for $910K. J-joe probably knows this neighborhood: city-living, gentrifying but dicey. Hey, at least the price includes the bars on the windows.

Comment by aNYCdj
2014-08-21 17:53:04

at least they have a patio/parking…..and Ill bet the rental unit is illegal….1 electric meter for the whole house….but its needed to pay the bills.i

Comment by taxpayers
2014-08-21 06:03:38

reading Crazy Rich Asians- trimming Singapore- wow it’s flip-a-delic there

Comment by goon squad
2014-08-21 06:12:55

Broke @ss breeders:

“raising kids cheaply is only possible if you think there’s something even more important than socializing and getting a good education — or if you’re so poor that you simply lack the cash to help your kids compete in our society’s various status competitions”

LOLZ to the breeders borrowing $750,000 for a starter home in the “right” school district

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 06:28:41

Heh. Flunkies.

Comment by j-j-j-joe
2014-08-21 06:30:30

This is true if you don’t question all the things society things you _need_.

The 750k starter house isn’t needed and the marginal cost to send your kids to schools ranked 9s and 10s on the Good Schools website is flame. Kids won’t die if they do elementary school in a school rated a 5. And if you want better for jr or sr high, many areas have magnets.

Do you think MMM is going to send his little Mustachian to private school?

That said, there are certain areas where the public schools are utter shit today. Look at SoCal for an example of what has happened in just the last 2-3 decades. CA publishes the demographics of each school. Schools that were 90%+ white and middle class in the 70s are now under 10% white and have terrible outcomes. Meanwhile, the areas people want to live in and where the schools are still majority white are expensive as hell, 1M+ for a decent (not great) house, over 500k for a marginal condo in a less nice area. And you still have the threat of the school getting worse in those areas because once a school becomes less than 50% white, you’ve reached a tipping point.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 06:52:27

Liberace. ….. you’re invoking the “location” lie. It’s a realtor marketing technique to get the target to pay far more than the property is worth.

Comment by goon squad
2014-08-21 07:17:41

note that the article mentions the duggar family.

in the near future, the only people having kidz will have household incomes above $200,000 or below $50,000.

anyone who wants to have some semblance of a middle-class or better standard of living will only be able to afford it by not breeding.

Comment by j-j-j-joe
2014-08-21 07:43:32

I dunno man, I don’t think it’s necessary to send your kids to the absolute best schools before they’re teenagers at least. Surely you want to avoid the worst schools, but with an average, safe school with a competent teacher, you get a lot of value. Parental example-setting and supplementing with educational activities goes a long way, too, and need not be expensive.

The worst thing about buying an expensive house is that it basically forces both parents to have full time jobs and, in most cases, that means commutes, set schedules, stress, and often more than 40 hrs of work. This reduces the ability of the parents to raise the kids, negating some of the advantages of sending the kids the “good schools”. It doesn’t mean it can’t be done, but it’s harder to do when one spends 10 hrs commuting a week instead of around home or with the kids.

“Top schools” aren’t really about the education at all, it’s about the connections. By far, undergrad is the most important for this because that’s when you get real geographical variety and the kids are old enough to form their own values and opinions.

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Comment by oxide
2014-08-21 13:24:20

both parents to have full time jobs and, in most cases, that means commutes, set schedules, stress, and often more than 40 hrs of work.

This is a huge complaint in the DC area. There is a lot of pressure to overschedule the kids at activities such as music lessons or niche sports like archery or oh god play dates. Problem is, much of this takes place outside the school. Which is how you get highways packed to the gills with assault SUVs sporting mommy stickers on the back window and deadly weapons in the driver’s seat — and that doesn’t include the cell phone. After that, its about internships and scholarships and young adult science and summer camps. Kids are padding the resumé before they have a driver’s license.

Then there’s the pressure to travel with the fam to some destination, always out of state. I’m convinced they don’t really want to see the Bahamas or what-have-you. They just need to inform everybody at work that they went to the Bahamas.

Comment by tresho
2014-08-21 14:51:51

They just need to inform everybody at work
Conspicuous consumption is a dirty, dirty job, but someone has to do it.

Comment by tresho
2014-08-21 11:34:25

anyone who wants to have some semblance of a middle-class or better standard of living
Pretty soon that will be merely a pipe dream. Maybe it’s good that MJ is getting legalized.

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Comment by oxide
2014-08-21 13:29:26

the only people having kidz will have household incomes above $200,000 or below $50,000.

ya know they made a movie about that. Something about idiots.

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Comment by cactus
2014-08-21 11:04:46

on the Good Schools website is flame.’

There it is again. Back east lawyer slang ?

I still like “poors” best but this isn’t bad

“la ! look at the poors” ” But its all flame to me”

Comment by MacBeth
2014-08-21 07:40:10

Yes, that’s the reality of it.

A $750,000 house. Because “it’s for the children!”

What nonsense. It’s actually for the parents, but I shouldn’t say such things, should I?

Comment by oxide
2014-08-21 10:30:25

No, you can. One of my high-pay co-workers did that. She (and her high-pay hus) bought an expensive trophy home on acreage, i.e. an ‘estate,’ ostensbily because it has one of the best high schools in the country. I was thinking — for that amount of money, one of you high-pays could quit and homeschool the angel to whatever standards you want.

Comment by j-j-j-joe
2014-08-21 07:45:32

btw, Megan McArdle is a good writer and her book “The Up Side of Down” was a good, quick beach read this summer. Would recommend.

She has also done a few EconTalk podcasts with Russ Roberts, including one related to that new book in ~May or June.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 07:53:09

She’s a paid hack that is far too inexperienced.

Comment by j-j-j-joe
2014-08-21 09:56:14

How so? She’s generally skeptical of the krap the mainstream media peddles.

She also wrote an entire book on why economic assumptions go badly so often.

Inexperienced? She has more life experience than most late-30s people, that’s for sure. Couple that with her skepticism of both political parties (she’s libertarian) and I’ll read her before I’ll read most things posted here or elsewhere online.

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Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 10:31:03

Clearly you havent read her junk.

Ya know Liberace…… When you carry water for a cause, do try to make it less obvious mmmmkay?

Comment by phony scandals
2014-08-21 06:45:15

I think I will go to the Brass Ring today for lunch and order a burger. When the waitress asks me how I would like it cooked I will say medium. When I get my burger I will send it back saying it’s too well done or too rare in honor of the… ‘NATIONAL DAY OF RAGE’


DHS has issued a bulletin drawing attention to the hactivist group Anonymous’ plans for nationwide protests


The U.S. Department of Homeland Security has issued a bulletin drawing attention to the hactivist group Anonymous’ plans for nationwide protests against the police shooting death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo.

The group has called for a “National Day of Rage” on Thursday to span 38 major U.S. cities.

The Threat Management Division of the Federal Protective Service issued the bulletin.

“Currently there is no indication that protests are expected to become violent. However, recent protests in Ferguson have resulted in violence, property damage and subsequent arrests,” the bulletin reads.

Brown was shot by Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson on Aug. 9. Wilson reportedly claims Brown assaulted and charged after him. Some witnesses claim that Brown was surrendering when Wilson fired.

Comment by taxpayers
2014-08-21 06:52:42

did the cop have cigars on him? AL Sharpton in the house and the WH.

Comment by phony scandals
2014-08-21 07:58:01

Maybe this will be Eric Holder’s next stop.


Posted on August 20, 2014 by PatriotsBillboard

oe Kovacs 8-20-14 While national news media continue to focus on race in Ferguson, Missouri, where a white police officer shot and killed an unarmed black teenager, they apparently don’t think a similar case in Utah with the races reversed is that newsworthy.

Police in Salt Lake City are continuing their probe into an Aug. 11 shooting outside a 7-Eleven convenience store, when a black police officer, whom local media are referring to as “not white,” shot and killed 20-year-old Dillon Taylor, who is white and was unarmed at the time, according to his supporters.

Police Chief Chris Burbank said the entire incident was captured on the body camera of the officer who shot Taylor.

“You will see on camera … the actions of everyone involved, including up to the point where our officer utilizes deadly force and his response thereafter,” Burbank told reporters.

He said the video, along with the officer’s identity, will be released at the “appropriate” time, adding it could be days, weeks or months.

“It would be wholly inappropriate to take the most vital piece of evidence that we have and put it out to the public prior to the officer having some due process,” he said.

The chief indicated he has personally viewed the footage, but would not comment on whether he believed the shooting was justified.

“I do not send officers out to use deadly force. That’s never our intention. In fact, our policy specifically says that is the last resort,” he said. “The officer in this circumstance did not set out to use deadly force. We have an unfortunate incident where Dillon Taylor lost his life.”

Scott Simons speaks through a blow horn during a protest about the police shooting of Dillon Taylor in Salt Lake City, Monday, August 18, 2014. Simons is the father of Kelly Simons who was shot and killed by police in 2013. (courtesy Salt Lake Tribune)

Burbank also refused to say whether Taylor had a gun, but the victim’s family and friends maintain he was unarmed.

“It didn’t make sense to me when I first heard everything, and they tried to say he had a gun,” Taylor’s friend Aaron Swanenberg told the Salt Lake Tribune. “I knew Dillon. He never packed a gun.”

Police said officers were responding to a report of a man “waving a gun around.”

When officers arrived, they found three men leaving the convenience store, with one, later identified as Taylor, reportedly matching the description of the person reported in a 9-1-1 call.

Witnesses say Taylor was wearing headphones at the time and may have been trying to pull his pants up when he was gunned down.

At the time of his shooting, court documents show Taylor had a $25,000 bench warrant for a probation violation in connection with felony robbery and obstructing justice convictions.

But Marissa Martinez, whose sister used to date Taylor, told the Salt Lake Tribune that Taylor had turned over a new leaf.

“He was trying to do better for himself. And this is what happens to him?” Martinez said. “It was really heartbreaking.”

Regarding the race of the officer, Utah’s Deseret News reported the police chief “saying the officer is not white.” The Salt Lake Tribune noted, “the officer involved was not white.”

The Taylor case was examined Wednesday by talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh, who said, “Note the similarities to the Michael Brown story [in Missouri], except in this case there’s no evidence the victim actually committed a crime.”

He noted Taylor “didn’t resist. He didn’t hit the cop. He didn’t try to flee and yet he was shot dead.”

He also pointed out how most news accounts did not specify the race of the police officer who killed Taylor.

“They are referring to the officer as ‘other-than-white,’ which reminds me of George Zimmerman becoming only the second-known white Hispanic, a title given by the New York Times.”

“They can’t wait to mention the racial aspects in St. Louis,” Limbaugh continued. “They don’t talk about the racial aspects in [the shootings in] Chicago, and there aren’t any racial aspects here in Salt Lake City.” - 97k -

Comment by oxide
2014-08-21 13:37:23

body camera

Now why don’t the highly militarized cops in Ferguson have these nifty army surplus gadgets? Then they could absolve the officer without multiple autopsies or pesky witnesses.

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2014-08-21 15:12:28

Now why don’t the highly militarized cops in Ferguson have these nifty army surplus gadgets?

Would a body camera have answered questions about Michael Brown’s shooting?

…Today I want to write about evidence that we know will not become available: evidence from a body camera worn by the shooting officer. Of course, the officer was wearing no such camera. Should he have been?

Interestingly, the Ferguson police department this spring reportedly had purchased two dash cams and two body cameras, but ultimately lacked the money to install them. Other police agencies around the country are in the process of examining whether to more generally provide body cameras, with media reports in the last week suggesting that testing is ongoing in cities such as Houston, Rochester, and elsewhere.

The logic behind body cameras is obvious: The video recording will provide an objective record of what happens in police-citizen encounters, thus providing both an incentive for the officer to behave properly and a later record to prove that he behaved properly if questions are raised. But is the logic sound?

….Earlier this week, the Wall Street Journal published a story about the use of body cameras by police in Rialto, California. According to the story, “the use of force by officers declined 60%, and citizen complaints against police fell 88%.” The story was based on a study by the Police Foundation, and for those interested in the full report, it can be found here. Anecdotal evidence from other police agencies suggests similar results, as found in this Washington Post story from last fall about the Laurel Police Department.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2014-08-21 07:51:31

Wilson reportedly claims Brown assaulted and charged after him. Some witnesses claim that Brown was surrendering when Wilson fired.

As I’ve said all along, those two conflicting narratives along with the history of police interaction with minorities make this thing a huge mess, and it will continue to be.

I’m wondering what the impact of technology will have in regard to cops wearing body-cams. I think it will be a boon for the people over cops whereas some will think it will be better for cops over the people. I think cellphone cams have already affected police behavior.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2014-08-21 12:02:33

Dang. You know your own society is kind of bent when whackjob countries like Iran can point out valid criticisms. USA! USA!

Unrest in Ferguson draws attention from the US’s critics

“…racism still overshadows minorities in the US… “

….Iranian newspaper Siyasat-e Ruz:

“Considering the developments in Ferguson, the question is how can America chant slogans about supporting people and security in the world at a time when the people’s simple demands are suppressed inside the country and people do not even have the right to protest?” he writes.

A few Iranian papers and some agencies have chosen to highlight the story on their front pages,

…America now stands on a similar precipice and must remember the lessons of Los Angeles and London”

China’s state-owned news agency, Xinhuanet, says that while the US has been trying to play the role of judge and jury around the world, Ferguson shows that there is still work to be done at home.

“Obviously, what the United States needs to do is to concentrate on solving its own problems rather than always pointing fingers at others,” writes Li Li.

Another opinion piece in China’s Global Times says that the unrest “tells us that racism still overshadows minorities in the US even while they have a black president”.

And in Russia, which is suffering under the brunt of US sanctions, a state-owned paper was eager to call attention to the situation.

“Though the US portrays itself as a country of equal opportunities, it is too early to talk about the victory over racism and segregation there,” writes Igor Dunayevskiy for Rossiskaya Gazeta.

And popular pro-Kremlin tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda says bluntly, “Not only are the police acting as the US Army does in Iraq (simply put, like occupation forces), but it is this model that the US exports to countries that seek help… in reforming their interior ministries.” The paper cites US involvement in Georgia under Saakashvili.

Comment by taxpayers
2014-08-21 06:51:39

?? is there a price positive county in the US now w tight inventory??
not a city or town, but a whole county
I’m betting NO

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 06:54:10

Correct …. dump it if you can find a buyer.

Comment by Ben Jones
2014-08-21 06:54:08

“This is about Bernanke. He has to be on that [Bear Stearns] call. Bernanke needs to open the discount window, that’s how bad things are out there. Bernanke needs to focus on this. Alan Greenspan told everyone to take a teaser rate and then raised the rate seventeen times. And Bernanke is being an academic. It is no time to be an academic. It is time to get on the Bear Stearns call. Listen, open the darn Fed window. He has no idea how bad it is out there. He has no idea! He has no idea! I have talked to the heads of almost every single one of these firms in the last 72 hours, and he has no idea what it’s like out there. None! And Bill Poole has no idea what it’s like out there. My people have been in this game for 25 years and they’re losing their jobs, and these firms are going to go out ofbusiness, and he’s nuts! They’re nuts! They know nothing! I have not seen it like this since I went five bid for a half a million shares of Citigroup and I got hit in 1990. This is a different kind of market, and the Fed is asleep. Bill Poole is a shame. He’s shameful.” – Jim Cramer, August 3, 2007′

‘It was Friday, August 3, 2007, two months before the ultimate stock market top. The S&P 500 had just closed below its 200-day moving average for the first time in a year, but was still up over 1% YTD. Financials were telling a much different story than the broader market as the start of the housing collapse had already begun. The largest financial firms had significant exposure to securities predicated on the belief, shared by the Fed and chairman Bernanke, that on a nationwide basis “housing prices never go down.”

Note the bit about restricted housing supply in the first minute:

Comment by azdude
2014-08-21 16:37:02

clowns but he has a phd

Comment by phony scandals
2014-08-21 06:58:15

I hate waking up and finding a bloody stranger on the couch, just ruins the whole day.

Massachusetts man finds bloody stranger in home

The Associated Press
POSTED: 08/19/2014 07:54:33 AM MDT1 COMMENT| UPDATED: 2 DAYS AGO

MARLBOROUGH, Mass. (AP) — A Massachusetts man who fell asleep in a chair in his living room over the weekend got quite the surprise when he woke up — a bloody stranger asleep on the couch.

The Marlborough homeowner got his wife, children and father-in law out of the home at about 4:30 a.m. Saturday and called police.

The MetroWest Daily News ( ) reports that responding officers arrested 30-year-old Timothy Francis Benway and charged him with entering a building at night, putting a person in fear, and vandalism.

Police say Benway’s injuries were consistent with a “highly intoxicated” person walking through a wooded area and falling down.

Bail was set at $500 at Benway’s arraignment Monday. He told police he had no idea how he got injured or how he ended up in the home.

Comment by 2banana
2014-08-21 07:29:16

Putting a person in fear?

Walk through any neighborhood in north or west Philly…

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 08:21:01

Try Linden and Penn in Crooklyn. Pack iron.

Comment by taxpayers
2014-08-21 07:30:06

existing home sales booming- is that a june number? lag lag lag

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 07:35:18

Reported by the same corrupt organization that lied every month about demand for 5 years straight.

Comment by MacBeth
2014-08-21 07:32:44

From yesterday..

“Having spent more than half a century exporting war to foreign lands, profiting from war, and creating a national economy seemingly dependent on the spoils of war, we failed to protest when the war hawks turned their profit-driven appetites on us, bringing home the spoils of war—the military tanks, grenade launchers, Kevlar helmets, assault rifles, gas masks, ammunition, battering rams, night vision binoculars, etc.—to be distributed for free to local police agencies and used to secure the homeland against “we the people.”

There are those on this board who scoff at my “domestic imperialism” commentary….the above is just part domestic imperialism is all about. It’s also about the NSA, the IRS, the EPA and a myriad of other public and private outfits and organizations.

I wouldn’t be at al surprised if someday soon all of the above have their own formal law enforcement/military factions, all operating under an imperialist federal government.

Comment by Ben Jones
2014-08-21 08:40:11

‘The late scholar Chalmers Johnson used to say, “Either give up your empire, or live under it,” referring to the truth that foreign empires tend to foster domestic police states. American experience, especially in past years, has shown just how prescient this unheeded warning was. The September 11, 2001 terrorist blowback from U.S. imperialism in the Middle East excused a massive swelling of the “homeland” security state, as well as an imperialist double-down in the invasions and occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. These foreign wars, in turn, engorged our police state even further, as a torrent of surplus military gear streamed into our local police and sheriff’s departments, ramping up an already long-running militarization of the police in America.’

“If you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?”—Sunil Dutta, an officer with the Los Angeles Police Department for 17 years.’

‘Life in the American police state is an endless series of don’ts delivered at the end of a loaded gun: don’t talk back to police officers, don’t even think about defending yourself against a SWAT team raid (of which there are 80,000 every year), don’t run when a cop is nearby lest you be mistaken for a fleeing criminal, don’t carry a cane lest it be mistaken for a gun, don’t expect privacy in public, don’t let your kids walk to the playground alone, don’t engage in nonviolent protest near where a government official might pass, don’t try to grow vegetables in your front yard, don’t play music for tips in a metro station, don’t feed whales, and on and on.’

‘For those who resist, who dare to act independently, think for themselves, march to the beat of a different drummer, the consequences are invariably a one-way trip to the local jail or death.’

‘What Americans must understand, what we have chosen to ignore, what we have fearfully turned a blind eye to lest the reality prove too jarring is the fact that we no longer live in the “city on the hill,” a beacon of freedom for all the world.’

‘Far from being a shining example of democracy at work, we have become a lesson for the world in how quickly freedom turns to tyranny, how slippery the slope by which a once-freedom-loving people can be branded, shackled and fooled into believing that their prisons walls are, in fact, for their own protection.’

Comment by Ben Jones
2014-08-21 08:42:35

‘After more than a decade of denial and concealment on the part of our government, President Barack Obama’s recent acknowledgment that “we tortured some folks” felt like a milestone. Even in its spare, reductive phrasing, the president’s statement opened up the possibility, finally, of national reflection, contrition and accountability.’

‘But the president moved quickly to limit that conversation, painting those who authorized torture as “patriots” who were making difficult decisions under enormous pressure and urging the public not to feel “sanctimonious” because our military and intelligence leaders have “tough jobs.”

‘Obama was wrong to do this, and not only because patriotism isn’t a defense to criminal conduct. The deeper problem with the president’s account is that it consigned to obscurity the true heroes of the story: the courageous men and women throughout the military and intelligence services who kept faith with our values, and who fought to expose and end the torture.’

Comment by cactus
2014-08-21 11:18:59

Reminds me of a scene in “the great escape” were the British POW was trying to get out of Nazi Germany and had to pass through countless police / soldier check points.

glad its not like that here oh wait ..

Comment by In Colorado
2014-08-21 09:21:48

I chatted yesterday with my BIL, who is a retired cop from the UK. In his career he never carried a firearm. He is appalled at what’s happening in the USA with the militarization of the police. He also said that Europeans are very aware of the escalating police violence and trigger happiness in the the USA.

I think that a lot of people mistakenly believe that the militarized police will only be used against “troublesome” minorities.

Comment by aNYCdj
2014-08-21 17:58:48

well who causes most of the violent crimes??? not the Amish or the Lithuanians….

Comment by reedalberger
2014-08-21 19:38:08

We have to keep the power of government in check at all levels. That being said…we still need the peace maintained and a fair and honest justice system. Please don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater, I don’t want to live in a Mad Max sh.t hole with ISIS style Nazi’s running wild…and I would expect most of you would also not want that future.

Think about the relative safety of your community and how that safety offers you the ability to go out and pursue happiness. Be glad we have people willing to volunteer as a police officer or soldier, we are extremely blessed in that regard.

All of you calling for anarchy have no idea what’s coming if you get your wish, look your children in the eye and think about their future. There is a balance between liberty and security and that balance is never going to be perfect.


Comment by Ben Jones
2014-08-21 20:16:37

‘All of you calling for anarchy have no idea what’s coming if you get your wish’

“If you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground,” warns Officer Sunil Dutta of the Los Angeles Police Department, “just do what I tell you.”

‘The thing is, Officer Dutta (pictured) is also an Adjunct Professor of Homeland Security and Criminal Justice at Colorado Technical University. And he uttered those words not in the heat of the moment, but in an opinion piece in the Washington Post responding to widespread criticism of police attitudes and tactics currently on display in Ferguson, Missouri, but increasingly common nationwide.’

‘Dutta continues: “Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?”

‘Dutta actually comes off as a reasonable law enforcement officer, when compared to some of his colleagues who can be found venting on police-only bulletin boards or referring to Ferguson protesters as “fucking animals.” Dutta acknowledges that police can abuse their authority, saying “When it comes to police misconduct, I side with the ACLU: Having worked as an internal affairs investigator, I know that some officers engage in unprofessional and arrogant behavior; sometimes they behave like criminals themselves.”

‘He endorses the use of body cameras and dashcams to record interactions between police and the public. He counsels, “you don’t have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there’s no warrant.”

‘And yet he demands unresisting submission to police without argument or even legal protest. Just how do you “refuse consent to search your car or home” without running afoul of the no-nos Dutta warns may get you “shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground”?

‘But you don’t have to have an armored vehicle to be a jerk and a danger to the public. If you have the attitude that you are owed deference and instant obedience by the people around you, and that you are justified in using violence against them if they don’t comply, we already have a problem. That’s especially true if official institutions back you up, which they do.’

‘If you really think that everybody else should “just do what I tell you,” you’re wearing the wrong uniform in the wrong country. And if you really can’t function with some give and take—a few nasty names, a little argument—of the sort that people in all sorts of jobs put up with every damned day, do us all a favor: quit.’

‘The law enforcement problem in this country goes well beyond boys with toys. It’s much deeper, and needs to be torn out by the roots.’

Comment by Selfish Hoarder
2014-08-21 07:37:31

Looking ahead for my April 2015 shopping list: Palladium prices are predicted to come down some by the end of 2014:

Comment by buyerwithnodown
2014-08-21 07:39:59


i was approved a loan of 450k … i work in downtown LA and 27 years old.. I wanted to buy a house with a yard but everything within 30 minutes of downtown are trash worthless properties

should i wait for the market to come down or just buy a condo around 450k?

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 07:54:16

^ lolz.

Comment by azdude
2014-08-21 16:32:09


Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 17:39:26

Less anger and more analysis $hitHousePoet…. Like this.

Los Angeles, CA Housing Demand Plunges 13% YoY; Sinks To 4-Year Low

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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2014-08-21 08:01:27

should i wait for the market to come down or just buy a condo around 450k?

IMO, don’t buy anything and get out of LA before you are 30. LA sucks the soul right out of you. I left at 32 after 8 years. It was the best move I ever made. FWIW, I’ve lived in 6 states, all 3 coasts and have visited 49 states. LA is cool when you’re in you 20’s for awhile but I’m just sayin’. Yuck. (Sorry Angelinos, a lot of you are great people)

Comment by Puggs
2014-08-21 09:44:26

How would you water the lawn anyways??? Yer gonna pay more for water than gas in a while.

Comment by Guillotine Renovator
2014-08-21 11:02:01

“azdude” troll post.

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-08-22 00:36:48

Good catch. That $h!thouse poet writing style is a dead giveaway…

Comment by cactus
2014-08-21 11:22:30

should i wait for the market to come down or just buy a condo around 450k?

Get a bigger loan and put no money down. If it all goes down you just walk away if it goes up take a sweet equity loan and buy a BMW.

sheesh you guys haven’t learned anything

Comment by Puggs
2014-08-21 12:34:23

That’s how you should roll as an OPM playa.

Comment by Selfish Hoarder
2014-08-21 12:02:58

I worked in L.A. and OC most of the last 11 years. Do yourself a favor. Rent as close to the beach as possible. You are young and renting is far cheaper than owning there. And you will have more fun than being inland.

Comment by azdude
2014-08-21 16:30:51

buy now before that shack is a million. Get in on this gravy train.

CA consumers will get 800 million to bolster home prices.

U cant lose brother!

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-08-21 08:14:50


~The Enrager

Comment by Ryan
Comment by Oddfellow
2014-08-21 09:32:35

Flee with confidence, your property is in good hands.

But now, the war has reached Donetsk, advancing all the way to the Uliza Artema, the main arterial through the center. I am standing in front of 58a, where a large hole can be seen in the facade on the third floor and several window panes have shattered. The street is blanketed with shards of glass and the asphalt is covered with dozens of small pits bored by grenade shrapnel.

Three people are lying on the ground in the intersection 50 meters away. One woman is bleeding heavily from her legs, while two men lie across from her. One is already dead. The other dies a short time later.

A Suspicious Look

There are two notices posted on the outside wall of 58a. In one, the pro-Russian rebel leadership warns people of the dangers of duds and explains what to do if one is found. The other reads: “We will take care of your apartment for as long as you are away from Donetsk. We are reliable and honest. Yevgeny and Anna, Century 21 real estate agency.” Two phone numbers are listed.

Comment by Ben Jones
2014-08-21 09:43:29

‘Now that there is a hint of war in the air again, those Pentagon contractors in the iShares Aerospace/Defense exchange traded fund are roaring back. If it weren’t for the persistent weakness of Boeing (BA), in fact, that fund — which performed so well last year — might be back at highs.’

‘It had been worrisome that the jet-fighter, aircraft carrier and ammo makers were lollygagging earlier in the summer despite war drums beating. The lack of response by Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Raytheon and Northrop Grumman gave the appearance of a group that had been abandoned by bulls.’

‘Now the world of warcraft is back in gear, so we can breathe a sign of relief. The cavalry is here. Not saying that’s a good thing on a moral ground, but it makes me feel better as an investor.’

Comment by Guillotine Renovator
2014-08-21 11:24:45

The beheading of the American will most certainly prompt increased “secret” US military operations in Syria, Iraq, etc.

Comment by cactus
2014-08-21 09:54:19

There’s one main reason why the average Spaniard or Italian has more to his name than the typical American: real estate.
Home ownership rates are higher in many European countries than in the U.S., giving Joe European more assets to his name than his American counterpart. Plus, it’s easier for Americans to borrow money, which eats away at their net worth, said Jim Davies, an economics professor at Western University in Ontario, Canada, and co-author of the Credit Suisse report.

But I thought renting made you rich ?

Comment by Ben Jones
2014-08-21 10:08:06

Where does the money come from, if you own a house and sell it? It comes from someone else, with interest probably. In the big picture, I can’t see how any wealth is “created”. Except for lenders, assuming the payments are made.

Comment by Selfish Hoarder
2014-08-21 12:41:55

Owning also eats away at your net worth - unless you are in a great location. In the USA it’s where you have ocean/gulf view and the swanky ski areas such as Jackson Hole. Anywhere else and you should not count on the value to keep up with inflation.

Comment by Ben Jones
2014-08-21 12:48:34

The more you are spending on a house payment, the less you have for everything else, so it’s an economy killer to boot. It’s taxed, falls apart. How in the heck did we ever get to a point where a very costly expense is some way to wealth? It’s just crazy talk.

Comment by rms
2014-08-21 20:41:54

Housing is an expense whether you own or rent. I like having a garage for the roll-away tool chest and workbench. The dog enjoys the yard as did my two children when they were younger. I’ve lived in apartments and houses, and I prefer a house. My ideal setup would be a 1200-sqft house and a 1200-sqft shop with a heated slab and tall roll-up door on an acre or two, no more. Maybe in the next life.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2014-08-21 11:52:27

Even some prominent members of the Repub Party are cryptically saying what I’m saying - Supply-Side tax CutsForTheRich do not promote jobs and growth anymore, (if they ever did) and cutting taxes on the rich have gutted our budget. Some of the kids are growing up. (Except Paul Ryan’s wing)

“With predictable fury, supply-siders have denounced this heresy.”

Paul Ryan: I’m Keeping Tax Cuts for the Rich

Reducing the top tax rate has been the Republican Party’s highest priority for a quarter century. Since the 2012 election, a handful of apostates have gently urged it to change course.

…Starting in the early 1980s, supply-side economics emerged as the Republican Party’s policy doctrine. Supply-side economics holds that the marginal tax rates hold the key to economic growth, and thus that even tiny changes to tax rates can unleash massive changes to economic performance. Accordingly, Republicans have valued low tax rates over absolutely everything else.

In the 2012 election, that commitment turned into a major liability for the party.

…The Republican reformers have, correctly, identified the commitment to reducing the top tax rate as a major (or even the major) liability.

If they keep their traditional commitment to low top tax rates above all else, there’s simply no money to spend elsewhere. On the other hand, if Republicans stop proposing to cut rich peoples’ taxes by hundreds of billions of dollars, they’ll be able to spread that money around on other things — tax credits for middle-class families, maybe some kind of health insurance — that would benefit a vastly larger bloc of voters. The policy champion for this bloc is Utah Senator Mike Lee,

…The reformists cast their argument in the most soothing possible tones. Cutting marginal tax rates was the correct policy in 1980, they agree. (It is axiomatic among Republicans that everything Ronald Reagan did was correct, even the things that contradicted other things he did.) But the world has changed, tax rates have fallen, and what worked for 1980 does not apply today.

…With predictable fury, supply-siders have denounced this heresy.

Comment by Ben Jones
2014-08-21 12:43:31

When the neocons first came to my attention, they called themselves big government conservatives. As I’ve shown their agenda includes universal healthcare and amnesty. But most importantly, a never ending river of money to the military. Ryan is fully on-board with the neocons. Of course he’s for all the taxes he can get. I posted this elsewhere:

”Now that there is a hint of war in the air again, those Pentagon contractors in the iShares Aerospace/Defense exchange traded fund are roaring back. If it weren’t for the persistent weakness of Boeing (BA), in fact, that fund — which performed so well last year — might be back at highs.’

‘It had been worrisome that the jet-fighter, aircraft carrier and ammo makers were lollygagging earlier in the summer despite war drums beating. The lack of response by Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Raytheon and Northrop Grumman gave the appearance of a group that had been abandoned by bulls.’

‘Now the world of warcraft is back in gear, so we can breathe a sign of relief. The cavalry is here. Not saying that’s a good thing on a moral ground, but it makes me feel better as an investor.’

I’m sure you’re overjoyed. Maybe you can see why some of us see all of you government worshiping, Exceptional Americans to be one (so-called) progressive/neocon alliance.

Comment by iftheshoefits
2014-08-21 17:00:18

“Maybe you can see why some of us see all of you government worshiping, Exceptional Americans to be one (so-called) progressive/neocon alliance.”

Yep. Environment, Economy, Middle East, Ukraine, etc. Even grade school bake sales. Meddlers gonna meddle.

Comment by taxpayers
2014-08-21 11:53:54

house haters show– they have a 10 year old car and 2 kids ,but they can always buy a house that 3.5x income

Comment by cactus
2014-08-21 12:05:07

I can’t see how any wealth is “created”.

No not like a factory or a farm or even a movie industry.

High cost RE is more of a display of the wealth already created, like a fancy car.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2014-08-21 12:26:08

The South Shall Rise Again? :)

“the West is the best”

Move over, SEC: Why the Pac-12 will be the nation’s best football conference–sec–why-the-pac-12-should-be-the-nation-s-best-football-conference-140558951.html

The programming pom-pom wavers at CBS and ESPN don’t want to hear it. Paul Finebaum’s collection of crazies doesn’t want to hear it. The “SEC! SEC! SEC!” chanters don’t want to hear it.

But hear this: The Pac-12 should be the premier conference in college football in 2014. To quote Jim Morrison, the West is the best.

Comment by rj chicago
2014-08-21 12:59:06

Given this info via Doug Short - who can afford ever increasing house prices?
Look out below.

Comment by Guillotine Renovator
2014-08-21 13:46:10

Before this massive real estate bubble, was there ever a time when houses rode the MLS for over 5 years? There is a veritable SEA of inventory in the higher price points; houses which rot away on the MLS, with nary an offer or price reduction. It is almost unbelievable to see houses which have been for sale since 2005. That is nearly a DECADE without a buyer! Who are these sellers dreamers?

Comment by azdude
2014-08-21 16:33:32

u have a wish price and a market price. Some of the homeowners can figure that out.

Comment by frankie
2014-08-21 14:00:53

The hiatus in the rise in global temperatures could last for another 10 years, according to new research.

Scientists have struggled to explain the so-called pause that began in 1999, despite ever increasing levels of CO2 in the atmosphere.

The latest theory says that a naturally occurring 30-year cycle in the Atlantic Ocean is behind the slowdown.

The researchers says this slow-moving current could continue to divert heat into the deep seas for another decade.

However, they caution that global temperatures are likely to increase rapidly when the cycle flips to a warmer phase.

Damm I’ll need to buy a new winter coat.

Comment by goon squad
2014-08-21 15:44:13

Everyone must check in

Comment by phony scandals
2014-08-21 16:23:24

Eric Clapton - Tulsa Time - YouTube - 173k -

I left Palm Beach County, drivin’ in a Pontiac
Just about to lose my mind
I was goin’ to Arizona maybe on to California
Where the people all live so fine

My momma called me lazy, my baby said I’m crazy
I was gonna show ‘em all this time
‘Cause you know I ain’t no fool and I don’t need no more schoolin’
I was born to just walk the line

Livin’ in Region IV, livin’ in Region IV
Well, you know I’ve been through it
When I set my watch back to it
Livin’ in Region IV

Well, there I was in Hollywood, wishin’ I was doin’ good
Talkin’ on the telephone line
But they don’t need me in the movies and nobody sing my songs
Guess I’m just wastin’ time

Then I started thinkin’ man, I’m really sinkin’
And I really had a flash this time
Oh, I had no business leavin’ and nobody would be grievin’
If I went on back to Region IV

Livin’ in Region IV, livin’ in Region IV
Gonna set my watch back to it
‘Cause you know that I’ve been through it
Livin’ ,in Region IV

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2014-08-21 16:32:06

Nice job.

A Danny Flowers/Don Williams/Eric Clapton classic.

Comment by Ben Jones
2014-08-21 16:42:31

I was doing some searching online and came across this. It’s a month old. There’s a photo of the rescue:

‘A man in his sixties has been rescued after his penis was stuck in a steel pipe for two days in Fujian Province, local news website reported. Doctors and firefighters in Quanzhou City took four hours to cut the steel pipe around the patient’s genitals on Sunday. An electric cutter was used to remove the 5-centimeter-thick pipe, according to the report.’

‘The man was too embarrassed to tell his family what had happened and he was found shivering two days after the incident, his son said. Firefighters were called in when hospital doctors said there was nothing they could do, according to the report.’

‘The report did not mention how the man’s penis got stuck in the pipe.’

Comment by azdude
2014-08-21 17:19:12

sad he should of used vaseline.

Comment by phony scandals
2014-08-21 17:41:46

“sad he should of used vaseline.”

I wouldn’t have thought of that, of course I would have never thought of putting my penis in a steel pipe either.

Comment by goon squad
2014-08-21 17:42:31

There’s a new record speed attempt underway to climb all of the Colorado 14ers:

Scroll to the last page to see where he is now, you will never see anything like this on ESPN

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2014-08-21 18:43:21

Obama’s oligarch handlers demanding 800,000 foreign wage slaves. How this will end is a foregone conclusion.

Comment by phony scandals
2014-08-21 20:15:47

Agenda 21

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