September 2, 2014

Priced At What The Market Will Be Two Years From Now

The News Press reports from Florida. “Housing starts in Southwest Florida spiked sharply in the second quarter, according to Metrostudy. Land Solutions CEO Randy Thibaut, who specializes in brokering the large-scale land transactions necessary to create residential communities, said the second-quarter numbers are encouraging but that it’s important to watch for possible obstacles to future increases. ‘We do have some slowdowns in the sales centers,’ he said. “We do have some standing inventory that’s building. My biggest concern is oversupply.’”

“Thibaut also said it’s important to remember that the current pace of new-home construction is still a shadow of what it was before the housing boom collapsed in late 2005. ‘By year’s end we’re only going to get around 8,500 single-family permits for Lee, Charlotte and Collier counties,’ he said. ‘That’s far from the 45,000 we had at the peak (2005); it’s far from the 10,000 we had in the year 2000.’”

From First Coast News. “There’s something growing all over Jacksonville. Permit data shows 248 building permits were issued in July 2014 in Duval County, according to the Northeast Florida Builder’s Association. That is up from the months of July dating back to 2008. ICI Homes North Florida Division President, Don Wilford, said demand is growing so fast, there’s a labor shortage, which he said also means there are jobs available for skilled workers. ‘There’s about 50 jobs that are created and maintained every time you build a house,’ he said. ‘Providing that worker can go from the next house to the next house.’”

From Action News Jax. “The Jacksonville City Council will hold a third meeting Monday on a plan to take control of abandoned homes. City leaders estimate there are about 30,000 abandoned homes in Duval County. Bill Gulliford, Jacksonville City Council said, ‘This is a neighborhood thing. This is not just about abandoned homes. This is a way to turn neighborhoods around too. Abandoned residential units in neighborhoods are a big problem, including vacant lots.’”

The St Petersburg Tribune. “Homeowners from across the state packed state Rep. Carl Zimmermann’s district office Wednesday to call on Gov. Rick Scott to fix a law they say is causing thousands of Floridians to lose their homes. Those gathered in his office had come from as far away as Palm Beach County. Many bought their condos during the real estate bubble a decade ago, when developers were rapidly converting apartment complexes into condominium buildings.”

“Now, they said, investors are buying condos in bulk and nabbing seats on boards of directors for condo associations, then obtaining 80 percent majorities on those boards, Zimmermann said. By a provision that passed in 2007, the 80 percent majority allows boards to vote to approve conversions. Individual condominium owners are then forced to turn over their deeds to the bulk owner, he said, who could potentially offer to buy it for less money than is owed on the mortgage.”

“Palm Harbor resident Stephanie Krasowski said that’s what’s happening to her and her neighbors at Madison Oaks, where she bought her condo in 2007. She said she bought her condo for $169,000, putting down 20 percent and financing the balance. Her condo board was later taken over by a bulk owner, which she said offered to buy her condo for $82,000. Since she still owed the bank $130,000, she objected. ‘We’ve been completely violated,’ she said.”

The South Florida Business Journal. “Peter Zalewski, a principal with Condo Vultures LLC, said he’s astounded that, only two years after the first post-recession condo broke ground in South Florida, there are 152 towers planned, including 70 taking deposits and 32 under construction. Zalewski is taken aback by the pricing. A Condo Vultures study of 46 projects found prices averaged $725 a square foot, and 16 were asking more than $1,000 a square foot. (There are still unsold units from the bust available for less.)”

“‘That’s one hell of a pace,’ Zalewski said. ‘I joke that they are 500 percent sold out in an hour. The average prices for these units are mind-boggling. Some developers are arguing that preconstruction prices are what prices in the market will be two years from now. … At this point, statistically, it’s kind of shocking to me.’”

“Unlike the last boom, when down payments were 10 to 20 percent, many developers are now asking for upward of 60 percent down – so depositors mostly fund buildings. Such an arrangement isn’t acceptable to most domestic buyers, said Lewis Goodkin, president of Miami-based Goodkin Consulting. Now, he said, foreign cash buyers appear to be overpaying and distorting the equilibrium of the marketplace.”

“‘I can say with absolute certainty, based on all of my experience, that if these people are paying these prices, they will have to find other people like themselves to get them out because it won’t be the domestic buyer who does it,’ Goodkin said. It’s especially a problem when it’s illegal money, because those buyers don’t care if they overpay and drive properties out of reach for legitimate buyers, Goodkin said. Even relying on legitimate sources of foreign cash is a dangerous game, he added.”

“‘You have real wealth and also people where you don’t know who the hell they are,’ Goodkin said. ‘That’s one thing that is disturbing because it’s not really real. The market is so dependent on a source you can’t even qualify. If you look at our past sales and see what a relatively small percentage of these sales were cash, and now all of these buildings are going up, predicated on buyers’ cash,’ Goodkin said. ‘It would seem to me that that is a phenomenon that I’m surprised the FBI isn’t really cognizant of. This is a flood.’”

The National Law Review. “A team of Dutch developers would like to bring a little bit of Atlantis to Miami. Earlier this month, Dutch Docklands submitted a letter of intent and request for zoning variance to the City of North Miami Beach in order to erect 29 multi-million dollar floating homes and an ‘amenity island’ in Maule Lake. The project, deemed Amillarah Private Islands, would be the first of its kind in the Western hemisphere.”

“In addition to the potential environmental ramifications, there are legal issues to be addressed. In the 2013 case of Lozman v. Riviera Beach, the Supreme Court held that floating houses are to be treated as homes and not vessels under the laws of the United States. This allows owners to receive mortgages, purchase insurance and declare homestead exemptions, among other things, for such floating properties. Nevertheless, administrative challenges remain—for example, parking requirements and police patrol access. Further, as Bilzin Sumberg Environmental Practice Group Chair, Howard Nelson, pointed out to the Miami Herald, variances to ordinances regulating waterways are rarely granted.”




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42 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2014-09-02 04:15:59

Read the SF Business Journal article if you can.

And we’ve finally got our floating houses proposal.

Comment by scdave
2014-09-02 07:31:02

Read the SF Business Journal article if you can ??

I don’t see it there anywhere Ben…

Comment by Ben Jones
Comment by scdave
2014-09-02 09:44:51

Oh…Sorry Ben…Just realized SF meant South Florida…I thought it Meant SF Chronicle…

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Comment by alphonso bedoya
2014-09-08 18:28:29

Floating homes. Bring ‘em on.
One good storm…..

 
 
Comment by taxpayers
2014-09-02 04:16:14

I’d pay 725 sq ft NOT to live in Miami

you can sweat and get shot at in Atlanta for $80-100

Comment by inchbyinch
2014-09-02 06:31:46

“get shot at in Atlanta”
Isn’t that true anywhere?
My bro just took an entertainment job in Atlanta, leaving his roots in So Ca. He’s still in the honeymoon stage regarding the south. Me, I just like visiting there. Absolutely, a beautiful part of America.

 
 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-09-02 06:52:53

“‘I can say with absolute certainty, based on all of my experience, that if these people are paying these prices, they will have to find other people like themselves to get them out because it won’t be the domestic buyer who does it,’ Goodkin said. It’s especially a problem when it’s illegal money, because those buyers don’t care if they overpay and drive properties out of reach for legitimate buyers, Goodkin said. Even relying on legitimate sources of foreign cash is a dangerous game, he added.”

This saga will play out for at least another decade, including the point when the army of all-cash foreign buyers tries to collectively unwind their holdings, leading to a race to the exit. I don’t know when it is coming, but I do know it is coming.

Comment by scdave
2014-09-02 07:28:04

including the point when the army of all-cash foreign buyers tries to collectively unwind their holdings ??

I am not quite so sure Pbear…I have read some opinions and I believe there is some merit to the idea that even if they loose some value they may just stay put…

If they sold, even at a loss, where would they go…Back to their homeland ?? They are fleeing their homeland…I do not think they will want to take their money back…For the uber wealthy, its a diversification plan also…

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-09-02 07:43:16

“Go back to their homeland”?

You’ve got more strawman than a politico.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2014-09-02 08:49:49

‘I do not think they will want to take their money back’

It isn’t a question of taking money here or there. Eventually, they’ll want the money. Why would a money launder be content paying the association fees on a multimillion $ condo year after year? The issue for us is, are these illegal money flows distorting the market? Are they causing developers to build something for which there isn’t real demand, or at least anywhere near these prices? IMO, it’s going to be a freaking disaster, however this plays out. And I don’t think it’s going to take much longer either.

Remember, this time last year China was up, up, UP! Now they are throwing people out of high rise windows. London turned on a dime, and it’s market demand is very similar to Miami’s condos.

Comment by scdave
2014-09-02 09:47:21

The issue for us is, are these illegal money flows distorting the market ??

Legal & Illegal the answer is yes….

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Comment by oxide
2014-09-02 07:35:14

The prepper in me is grateful that these buyers appear to be concentrating their fiat on condo towers within a couple miles of the ocean. You would think that if they sense a coming apocalyse, economic or otherwise, they would choose to put the money into assets more tangible than a couple stainless steel appliances and a slab of glossy rock, which are worthless without a powered elevator.

If I were an empire-minded rich foreigner, I would be establishing territory by snapping up parts of flyover, like entire small towns and tracts of farmland, where there are are existing structures and systems, rainfall, wind, and the like. But, no, they seem to want to ignore every concept Sun Tsu ever put to rice paper and party in their f-ing floating boxes, either in the air or on the water. When push comes to shove (physically), they are starting from a defensive position with their backs to the water.

I say have at it.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-09-02 07:47:51

Donk,

foreign buyers account for 7% sales in the current market. The historical percentage is a whopping 7percent.

Comment by jane
2014-09-02 15:54:41

HA, to be fair, markets move from the marginal prices. The next guy who pays 10 bazillion sets the new threshold.

There’s a school of thought that says revolutions, and viral transmissions, operate precisely according to the same mechanism.

Just sayin’. The margins exercise a high degree of leverage.

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Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-09-02 17:06:17

And when there is only one guy with 10 bazillion?

 
 
 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2014-09-02 08:44:46

There’s illegitimately-acquired foreign money involved here? You don’t say!

 
Comment by Guillotine Renovator
2014-09-02 10:49:34

“This saga will play out for at least another decade, including the point when the army of all-cash foreign buyers tries to collectively unwind their holdings, leading to a race to the exit. I don’t know when it is coming, but I do know it is coming.”

Yeah, this Chinese twist has really thrown things for a loop. Why do we, as a country, allow an army of foreign buyers to price out Americans for shelter? We are losing our jobs, now our shelter. I am just disgusted with everything. I never thought this country would end up so f***ed up in such a short period of time.

Comment by snake charmer
2014-09-02 11:09:49

Agree completely. The reason it’s allowed is that the right people are making money, plus the perception that the future will take care of itself. If I was a young person I would be livid and ready to consider all political alternatives.

 
 
 
Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-09-02 06:55:18

“A team of Dutch developers would like to bring a little bit of Atlantis to Miami.”

Isn’t Atlantis an underwater city?

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2014-09-02 07:05:15

‘The documentary “The Queen of Versailles” begins life as a juicy guilty pleasure, allowing us to gawk and cluck at the nouveau-riche ostentation of an elderly time-share mogul and his much-younger trophy wife as they build their dream home: a 8,361-square-meter palace that would be the biggest house in America. And then the economy collapses. And suddenly, in some ways, David and Jackie Siegel are just like us.’

‘Sure, they’re stuck in their 2,415-square-meter mansion in Orlando, Fla., which they’re bursting out of with their eight kids, various nannies, maids and animals and wall-to-wall tacky furniture and artwork. Jackie, a buxom and Botoxed former model and pageant queen who’s about 30 years younger than her husband, rides in the back of a limo to pick up fries at McDonald’s.’

‘But they’re forced to lay off thousands of employees at Westgate Resorts, the company David founded and which made him a billionaire after coming from nothing. They face foreclosure. They end up sending their kids to public school and shopping at Wal-Mart. Now, they actually have to watch what they spend; they have to adapt.’

‘The crown jewel of his empire, a Las Vegas high-rise, features time shares bought by vacationers who couldn’t afford them in the first place through subprime mortgages. We all know how those turned out.’

‘These are not horrible people, just ones who flung themselves enthusiastically toward the American dream as so many do.’

Comment by Whac-A-Bubble™
2014-09-02 07:22:53

“The Queen of Versailles”

Wasn’t her head chopped off by the guillotine?

Methinks these marketing peops need to study more history.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2014-09-02 08:36:32

“The Queen of Versailles”

That was the name of the documentary movie; I’m sure the documentarians were well aware of the historical context, though in this case it was their RE empire that was beheaded.

The movie is well worth a watch; my favorite part was when, while trying to adjust her standard of living after the crash, she flew on a commercial airliner (gasp!), then went to the rental car desk to pick up a car, and was surprised to learn that rental cars don’t come with drivers. LOL…

Comment by snake charmer
2014-09-02 08:58:25

It is an excellent film. I almost felt sad for the egomaniac patriarch when everything fell apart; he was sitting in a room by himself in a total funk, and couldn’t even be snapped out of it by one of his children entering to say “I love you.”

But I have a message for the author of that review: selling people something they can’t afford, when you know they can’t afford it, does make you a bad person.

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Comment by In Colorado
2014-09-02 09:28:53

then went to the rental car desk to pick up a car, and was surprised to learn that rental cars don’t come with drivers.

I have been told that they do in China.

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Comment by oxide
2014-09-02 08:28:33

Why would they be facing foreclosure on their personal home when the business failed? Did this self-made billionaire not file for some form of limited liability, or put away an untouchable 5 million for emergencies? I would expect that from a basketball player or washed-up actor.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2014-09-02 08:38:34

Did this self-made billionaire not file for some form of limited liability, or put away an untouchable 5 million for emergencies? I

What seems obvious to most apparently was not obvious to him. Some are so certain of their own imperviousness that they don’t see the need for an insurance plan such as you outline.

Plus, they way that family lived and spent, they would have burned through your suggested $5M in a hurry.

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2014-09-02 07:09:59

‘Manasota Key house sells for half off’

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-09-02 10:10:49

Half off….. Oh my word.

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2014-09-02 07:13:16

‘Florida condominium owners in danger of losing their homes are making a final desperate plea, hoping that Gov. Rick Scott will intervene. “The governor needs to step in and halt these forced terminations immediately. We don’t have much time,” said Stephanie Krasowski, one of the remaining owners at the Madison Oaks complex. Krasowski, who like others, bought her unit at the peak of the last housing boom, has led the fight against the developers, starting a group that now represents more than 1,000 Florida condominium owners.’

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2014-09-02 08:37:49

‘Brazil has fallen into recession. Brazil’s national statistics institute said GDP shrank 0.6% in the second quarter and revised an initially positive first quarter growth estimate down to -0.2 percent.’

‘The Swiss economy unexpectedly stalled in the second quarter as stagnating growth in the euro area hurt exports. The economy of neighboring Germany contracted in the second quarter, while France stagnated and Italy succumbed to its third recession since 2008.’

‘Japan’s vital signs remained weak in July as wages fell further and household spending dropped, signaling continued weakness in the world’s third-largest economy. Real incomes fell 6.2 percent in July from a year earlier. The economy contracted by 6.8 percent in the April-June quarter.’

It’s sad. The global economy is being dragged into a hole. But don’t expect the media to ask the central bankers why they keep doing the same things. Why record high stocks and house prices can coexist with the shabby state of affairs. We could have blown out of all these zombie corporations and bad debts by now if the governments/central banks would have allowed it.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-09-02 08:41:44

So much for Lola’s smarmy paradise.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2014-09-02 10:19:50

‘Brazil has fallen into recession.

I thought it was different there…

Comment by taxpayers
2014-09-02 10:53:13

and the EU- the free hc smarter than countries

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2014-09-02 16:06:00

‘Brazil has fallen into recession…..I thought it was different there…

It is different here. Do you think anyone can measure Brazil’s economy as they do in America? In Brazil? Besides, Brazil needs a good ol’ fashioned recession to take care of some more structural problems.

Brazil’s economy: not as bad as it looked?

http://blogs.reuters.com/macroscope/2014/07/29/brazils-economy-not-as-bad-as-it-looked/

Brazil’s economy may have grown by 3 percent in 2012, three times as much as originally reported, according to an ongoing review of GDP data that could solve one of the biggest economic puzzles since the global financial crisis.

If accurate, estimates from local consultancy LCA would help explain why unemployment remained so low and consumer prices failed to ease when Latin America’s economy looked so weak.

…the possible revisions to past growth should be a reminder that first reads on economic data are often misleading or simply confusing.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2014-09-02 16:23:22

Brazil’s getting hit by China, terrible droughts, bad management and Argentina. But I don’t feel it much different yet. More numbers:

Argentina’s Default Might Lower Brazil’s GDP by Half a Point

http://www.brazzilmag.com/home/137-august-2014/13125-argentinas-default-might-lower-brazils-gdp-by-half-a-point.html

Argentina’s debt problems threatens to worsen trade tensions in Mercosur, adding to the economic woes of Brazil in a tense election year and causing headaches in Uruguay as the Argentine economy looks likely to plunge deeper into recession.

Brazilian exporters of goods ranging from shoes to cars and busses are reckoning on lower sales, while hotels and other tourist attractions in the hip Uruguayan beach resort of Punta del Este are bracing for a slow summer season after Argentina’s refusal to pay holdout bondholders.

The ’selective default’ is likely to hurt Argentine purchasing power because inflation, already running above 30%, is heading higher.

The pain will be acute in the auto industry: Brazil, the region’s biggest economy, sends about 50% of its car exports to Argentina.

…..A deeper recession in Argentina could prompt factories in Brazil to slash output and speed up layoffs, potentially robbing Rousseff of one of her trump cards - a strong job market - while also clouding the outlook for a Brazilian rebound in 2015.

 
 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2014-09-02 09:05:10

The pace of building here in Florida is becoming quite noticeable. And I also see new retail space being built, which is strange, because a fair amount of the old retail space is vacant. A few places, including a former Albertson’s supermarket, have been turned into mega-churches.

You’d think from the types of houses we’re building, and their cost, that we were becoming richer. We’re not.

Comment by Ben Jones
2014-09-02 11:42:18

‘By year’s end we’re only going to get around 8,500 single-family permits for Lee, Charlotte and Collier counties,’ he said. ‘That’s far from the 45,000 we had at the peak (2005); it’s far from the 10,000 we had in the year 2000′

What happened to those 45k houses? How many houses are enough?

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2014-09-02 11:36:48

‘A toxic brew is bubbling in the housing market that will lead to a mortgage crisis by winter, banking analyst Dick Bove said. Now that the Federal Reserve is nearly done with its monthly bond-buying program, which includes mortgage-backed securities, and Washington continues on its quest to unwind Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, conditions could get dicey in the home loan market.’

‘Under the current congressional plan, the Fannie and Freddie GSE system would be replaced by one in which a Federal Mortgage Insurance Corporation would replace the two entities. Part of the plan would see private capital take the first 10 percent of losses in case of default, a provision that has drawn critics who say the level is too high and will discourage investors.’

“While these banks are not willing to make public statements similar to those of the industry’s leaders, they all agree that the risk in making loans to low-income households is too high,” he said. “The fines, lawsuits and put-backs associated with those loans make them unprofitable.”

“One or the other of these institutions must step up to provide the funds since there is no entity that can take their place in the near or even intermediate term,” Bove said. “Thus, the source of my fear is clear. If the government is adamant that the GSEs must go, housing prices will fall. This will be a crisis.”

Hmm, maybe building a bubble on top of two failed corporations wasn’t such a good idea?

 
Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-09-02 13:12:20

Vero Beach FL Housing Prices Crater 7% YoY; Fall To September 2011 Levels

http://www.zillow.com/vero-beach-fl/home-values/

Comment by azdude
2014-09-02 15:29:51

D O N K E Y

Comment by Housing Analyst
2014-09-02 16:00:13

Remember…. falling housing prices to dramatically lower and more affordable levels is positively bullish and good for the economy.

 
 
 
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