I don’t agree with everything here, but there are some good points:
‘Shah Gilani writes: When I moved to Sarasota, Fla., in 1999, I was invited by a prominent local to an “un-wedding wedding” to make new friends in town. I accepted the invitation and, not wanting to display my ignorance, avoided asking the burning question: “What’s an un-wedding wedding?”
‘Inevitably, I found out what an un-wedding wedding is. It’s a full-blown wedding, only the host isn’t actually getting married. He or she wants to get married but isn’t – and goes through the motions anyway.’
‘This manipulation of celebratory events to fabricate optimism about a desired future reminds me of the state of housing in the United States today. There’s no reason to celebrate anything in the housing market’s un-recovery recovery. Past and present manipulations must be continued to prevent collapse, but they won’t help economic growth in the United States as they did until 2000. Instead, those manipulations only act as a headwind from time to time.’
‘According to a graph on the National Association of Home Builders’ website, new single-family home sales going back to 1978 show that current levels of sales are barely approaching 1980 levels. They are more than 50% below average sales from 1980 to 2006. While new home sales, which make up one-tenth of home sales, on the surface looked robust in February, existing home sales rose a scant 1.2% according to the National Association of Realtors.’
‘Free-market capitalism wedded to democracy yields a living, changing economic system that thrives on creative destruction and withers under socialist-style command and control. The Federal Reserve’s interest-rate manipulations over the past 20 years only prove they are incapable of fostering natural growth in the economy.’
‘The Fed never should have been allowed to manipulate rates so low for so long to inflate the housing bubble in the first place. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had to be bailed out, but by now should have been dismantled. They’re backing more mortgages now than ever before.’
‘While two governments and the Fed couldn’t let the financial system implode and too-big-to-fail insolvent banks eat their own poison, everybody should have by now worked together to have broken up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac once they were back on their feet.’
‘What people forget is the Fed and the government helped bail out builders after the crash. In a May 6, 2010, Reuters article, author Helen Chernikoff quoted Moody’s Economy.com Chief Economist Mark Zandi saying, “Without the government’s support, in all likelihood we would have seen more failures among the builders. It’s almost hard to list all the things that have been done to support homebuilding either directly or indirectly.”
‘Then the Fed, with a wink and a nod from successive government administrations went on a $2 trillion Treasury bond-buying binge to start up its zero interest-rate policy (ZIRP). And to prove no matter how much money it throws at housing it is hapless, the Fed bought $1.8 trillion of mortgage-backed securities (MBS) to narrow the MBS-over-Treasury spread to try and make more mortgage money available. That didn’t work.’
‘Without a so-called “clearing mechanism” that balances home sales and rental rates based on supply and demand against free-market interest rates reflecting real-world risk and returns in the $16.8 trillion U.S. economy, not only won’t the housing market ever fully recover, but the economy won’t either. Like an un-wedding wedding, the housing market’s un-recovery recovery is a sad state of affairs.’
I was reading the other day and one person asked, ‘when the housing market was falling, did the Federal Reserve (and I would add the government, and FASB) let the market find it’s natural level? Or did it intervene and prevent the market from establishing a real equilibrium?’ There isn’t any question:
‘Without the government’s support, in all likelihood we would have seen more failures among the builders. It’s almost hard to list all the things that have been done to support homebuilding either directly or indirectly’
From yesterday:
‘In January the family moved to a town home in a rental community, and quickly found they weren’t the only family forced into renting. ‘If you drive around our community, you’ll see moving boxes stacked up in the garages,’ he said. ‘No one wants to unpack, because they think they’ll be moving again soon.’
OK, but here’s the thing; you are all living in houses! There’s no freaking shortage of houses! Oh, the rent is high, the prices are high. Uh, yeah, and when have we heard that before? They were “forced” into renting, heaven forbid!
Come on. These silly emotional word games are still being used? You want to show me a market ‘recovery’? Take away the scaffolding Ms. Yellen. Let this little monster stand on its own feet Mel Watts. Oh, it can’t? It’s too fragile? Or are all the teat suckers too hungry to stop this obvious con?
Friend here bid on a house recently and lost, there were 14 other offers
Comment by Housing Analyst
2015-03-31 10:51:53
Can you imagine being that dumb?
Comment by MightyMike
2015-03-31 11:42:16
Maybe he lost because he was smart and didn’t bid enough.
Comment by Professor Bear
2015-03-31 11:47:22
Friends of ours who have asked me for years whether “now is the time to buy” just bought in San Diego at or near the Echo Bubble peak.
Given that propping up the value of housing is a national policy priority, my lips are sealed against offering any further opinions on timing of a home purchase.
Comment by rms
2015-03-31 12:06:04
“Friend here bid on a house recently and lost…”
Did ‘ya celebrate?
Comment by In Colorado
2015-03-31 13:47:24
Friend here bid on a house recently and lost, there were 14 other offers
14 offers … holy cr@p. So much for Denver cratering right now … but when it does … look out below!
Comment by Housing Analyst
2015-03-31 14:00:27
Cratering demand results in cratering prices.
Comment by rj chicago
2015-03-31 14:34:49
Goon - saw a mid century in Belleview Acres - around southglenn - same thing and what is interesting is the paperwork fell through on the house and it is now back on the market - makes me wonder what is really going on there.
“Or are all the teat suckers too hungry to stop this obvious con?”
Just to be clear, you are referring here to bootstrapping entrepreneurs in the private sector, not teat sucking government employees or contractors, right?
I think this includes everyone who is vested in keeping things the way they are and not letting the reckoning occur, rich, poor or in between because it gores their ox. A very large segment of the population wants government to do whatever it takes to keep housing prices up, up, up, particularly the price of their house.
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Comment by In Colorado
2015-03-31 08:41:24
A very large segment of the population wants government to do whatever it takes to keep housing prices up, up, up, particularly the price of their house
When you consider that 60 odd percent “own” a house of some sort, that is not surprising. Everyone I talk to is hoping to someday sell their house for some exorbitant price when they retire and move to some low cost of living locale.
I tell them that they should sell now (if they can). The response is usually the same: “but then we’d have to shudder rent. I tell that that’s better than getting stucco, but they (at least the Denverites) believe that houses will always sell like hot cakes, and refuse to believe that the current bubble is temporary, and roll their eyes when you tell them prices will eventually crash.
Really? Well house prices skyrocketed in the last 3 years along with stocks and no one (outside of this blog) seems able to conceive of any kind of crash happening again. If things stay where they are now, it did work. If they stay withing a plus or minus ten percent band from where we are now for the next 5 years then it did work. Long term, who knows.
I’m goddamned cynical right now because I’ve recently seen some economic foolishness being paid off and rewarded due to that runup the last 3 years.
Another way to look at intervention is that high prices were a transfer from renters and prospective future homeowners to builders and current owners. I’m not sure at what point penalizing one group of American citizens to reward another was added to the Fed’s policy mandate.
New comps should take hold over the next several months when the current crop of price reduced stuff sells. I’m already seeing wide gaps in similar properties based on some needing to sell more quickly.
My concern is that the new comps just get ignored.
“‘Inevitably, I found out what an un-wedding wedding is. It’s a full-blown wedding, only the host isn’t actually getting married. He or she wants to get married but isn’t – and goes through the motions anyway.’”
I like it, maybe they should have un-funerals too. You lie in the casket, everybody cries and lies about how great you were, but you get to listen and enjoy it. Then, at the end of the affair, you pop out of your coffin and have a drink with your un-mourners, who cheer your return.
You get to enjoy your expensive funeral while you’re alive!
I’ve heard of wedding-type ceremonies where the person — usually an empowered woman — doesn’t want to get married. I’ve heard it described as she is “marrying herself.” Is this the same as an un-wedding?
I like it, maybe they should have un-funerals too. You lie in the casket, everybody cries and lies about how great you were, but you get to listen and enjoy it. Then, at the end of the affair, you pop out of your coffin and have a drink with your un-mourners, who cheer your return.
You get to enjoy your expensive funeral while you’re alive!
Somewhere, there is a mortician saying “Hey, that’s not a bad idea.”
March 30, 2015 5:06 pm
Five-year itch in shipping and PE marriage
Robert Wright in New York
It should have been an ideal match. When banks, stung by the financial crisis and huge losses, stopped lavishing as much attention and money on shipping, owners found a new group of apparently more dashing suitors. Private equity firms, flush with cash and eager to take on the risks of highly volatile dry bulk and tanker shipping, suddenly looked alluring.
Five years into the process, the union between the mostly small, family-controlled, often Greek, shipowners and big, numbers-driven, usually American, private equity firms such as Oaktree and Blackstone has proved less happy than anticipated. The investors’ tactics have inadvertently helped to exacerbate the industry’s financial crisis. Shipowners’ informal ways of doing business have fit poorly with the precision that PE investors expect.
“The huge amount of private equity that came into the industry five years ago is scratching its head and saying maybe it wasn’t a great thing to do,” Martin van Tuijl, a senior vice-president of DVB Bank, a transport specialist, said recently at the annual Capital Link Shipping Forum.
It was also clear at the forum, one of New York’s biggest such gatherings, that many of the investments are worth far less than private equity paid for them and some shipping markets remained depressed. Neither side can currently afford a divorce.
Several private equity firms are now, like it or not, long-time shipping industry actors, Michael Parker, head of shipping for Citi Group, told the forum.
“Whether that’s because they’re stuck I don’t know,” he said. “But a number of them now are significant participants.”
…
Since home price increases aren’t being built on top of suicidal financing like last time, we’re not likely to see a dramatic burst when things finally slow down.
So he thinks that those all-cash buyers will just sit things out instead of stampeding towards the exits like a stock market crash? At least with mortgages the home owners can’t just liquidate. They need to find a new place to live. “Investors” do not.
I’ve called this the ‘it’s not 2000-pick your year’ excuse. Sure, house prices are up up UP! There are people camping out for pre-construction houses, multiple offers over asking, investors running wild. Shortages, man, shortages! But; there are not the exact circumstances of the pick your year.
The bubble is in the minds of the participants, and it couldn’t be more clear. All the proof you need is in the prices. It doesn’t matter how you get there.
If prices increased by double digits the previous few years in that area it is certainly a bubble regardless of their not being a match to other historical conditions or previous bubbles.
It doesn’t really matter why you are getting fat. If you refuse to step on the scale you are in denial.
I think I’ve shown how current prices are consistent with a cyclical top–Shiller’s data shows this clearly. However, the top is not consistent with the bubble peak NATIONALLY (in certain markets, prices ARE consistent with the bubble peak).
The question remains…what will be the triggering event to cause prices to fall?
Will it be a recession?
Will it be crazy financing leading to a lot of defaults and a new round of foreclosures?
Will it be overbuilding?
In prior cycles, it was usually overbuilding combined with a recession that led to prices falling.
The bubble years was marked by crazy finance, and combined with high prices and overbuilding, eventually collapsed under it’s own weight.
What will it be this time?
While I agree that prices are cyclically at a peak, I expect that we will need to see homebuilding ramp up considerably before we experience a significant decline in prices…I put that 2-3 years out.
They say this quarters GDP is 0000. China is a big deal. Those leaving China with their loot are a big part of the bubble. I think that the timing on the US Housing Market crash is going to depend on how China’s situation effects us. Does anyone know?
“Since home price increases aren’t being built on top of suicidal financing…
If that were true it would be the same argument. With China due to four trillion dollars in foreign reserves very little external debt and savings rate around 40%, a low consumer debt, a low federal government debt, and its business debt being secured by producing assets, it is true.
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Comment by Housing Analyst
2015-03-31 07:10:17
Yeah but we’ve got falling prices across the US.
Comment by Blue Skye
2015-03-31 07:24:26
“it is true”
The bubble is in your mind.
It’s different in Canada too. Oh, and in Brazil.
Comment by Albuquerquedan
2015-03-31 07:52:09
Brazil is toast and as the year goes on expect more and more loan defaults and no to negative growth.
Comment by Dman
2015-03-31 07:55:42
“If that were true it would be the same argument. With China due to four trillion dollars in foreign reserves very little external debt and savings rate around 40%, a low consumer debt, a low federal government debt, and its business debt being secured by producing assets, it is true.”
I don’t see what any of that has to do with the popping of China’s real estate bubble.
Comment by Albuquerquedan
2015-03-31 08:06:38
I never said China did not have a housing bubble and the bubble was going to deflate, what I said, and you can go back to last summer and look, was despite the slowdown in housing China would still grow around 7% for 2014 and 2015, 2014 is already history and I was right and 2015 shows no signs of proving me wrong.
Comment by Blue Skye
2015-03-31 09:07:46
You are already wrong about 2015. Last year was the peak of empty housing completion. Construction is now in decline. Not growing ever so slightly less, contraction.
Comment by oxide
2015-03-31 13:27:59
How are the Chinese buying houses which are 40x income and saving 40% of their income…. oh and buying cars for the “masses” which are again multiples of income, all at the same time?
Comment by Albuquerquedan
2015-03-31 14:03:34
They are not buying houses 40 times their income.
Comment by Blue Skye
2015-03-31 15:01:54
We’ll have to give that one to Oxy.
“A 100- square-meter (1,076-square-foot) apartment today costs about 40 years’ annual income, according to SouFun and government data…”
The funniest thing about the global property guide link is that the 99x figure for China is for a “typical upscale house unit of 100 sq meters.” That’s a 1056 sq ft house.
Comment by Blue Skye
2015-03-31 18:45:44
I rather think it is not funny for one to give up the entire produce of their working life to claim temporary ownership of a 1,000 ft2 box. Or a 2,500 ft2 box. It is a tragedy.
“Something else that’s different this time around is that the price to own has not diverged as much from rents. Rents have been growing at double digit rates in neighborhoods near downtown Seattle like Capitol Hill for a couple years now. During the last boom, home prices were about the same but I’d guess rents were 60-70% of what they are now.”
Doesn’t this scream out to anyone that we are in a much worse bubble than we were 10 (wow, has it been that long?) years ago?
Doesn’t it scream that we have a shortage of supply?
If both rents AND homes prices are going up substantially faster than inflation or wages, doesn’t that seem to be evidence that there is not sufficient supply of any type of housing?
I don’t know for sure. What I do know is that I’ve started writing letters to “owners” of vacant houses in Portland. What I’m finding is that they are everywhere if you look closely, here in a supposedly low inventory, “everyone is moving there” city.
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Comment by Rental Watch
2015-03-31 11:43:53
So we are on the same page:
I don’t care about the number of listings. That’s what a lot of people call “inventory”. I care about the overall vacancy rate in the market–the best indicator of supply of shelter vs. demand for it in my view.
What is the vacancy rate in Portland relative to history? On the low end? Or still relatively high?
My question as it relates to Portland (and Oregon generally): Did Oregon change back their foreclosure law? If I recall correctly, they passed a law that was pretty extreme, cutting down foreclosures by about 90% overnight (and thus slowing the process of “clearing” the market…has that been unwound at all?
Comment by Housing Analyst
2015-03-31 11:48:42
We know what page you’re on Rental_Fraud.
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2015-03-31 12:36:37
Again, I don’t know nor do I care. I’m targeting vacant housing independent of the reason for the vacancy. If it’s tied up in foreclosure/short-sell-hell, I move on to the next one.
Much of what I’m finding has been owned for 15+ years. I’m here to solve problems at 40-50% of current ARV. Most won’t go for it. Some do. I’m in no hurry. I’m halfway through page 1 of 6 pages of properties I’ve found and most aren’t far from popular areas of the city…there’s a lot out there.
‘Real estate data company RealtyTrac says Boise is in better shape than most of the country when it comes to the difference between wages and home prices. RealtyTrac looked at wage growth and home price growth from 2012 to 2014 in the nation’s 184-largest metro areas. Nationally, price growth outpaced wage growth 13-to-one. RealtyTrac vice president Daren Blomquist says in Boise, it was closer to four-to-one.’
‘A report out last week from the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis showed Idaho had one of highest increases in personal income in the country from 2013 to 2014. Of course, Idaho has among the nation’s lowest wages. Blomquist says, while Idaho’s wage and home price gap is better than much of the country, it is not sustainable. If it continues to widen he says, the area will find itself inside another housing bubble. But he says he expects Boise’s price growth to level off soon.’
“That will mean those buyers who are in the market right now who maybe are having trouble finding a place to purchase, they don’t have to have that urgency to buy now,” he says. “They can wait a little bit until the time is right for them.”
‘Blomquist says some places, like coastal California, are already in a housing bubble. He says like the housing bubble before the Great Recession, it’s being driven by institutional investors. He doesn’t think big investors are buying much in Boise yet. He says in many California cities home prices have gone beyond the means of the average person.’
“One of the other things we looked at is affordability. ‘Are we seeing homes that are unaffordable in each market?’ And in Boise that is not the case yet,” he says.’
280K is about the average listing price in low wage, podunky, flyover Boise. While that might seem like a steal in California, I suspect that the average Boisite cannot afford such a price.
‘Barney Frank has a new autobiography out. So why has a critical revelation from Frank’s book, one that implicates the most powerful Democrat in the nation, been entirely expunged from the record? Nobody has focused on Frank’s allegation that Barack Obama refused to extract foreclosure relief from the nation’s largest banks, as a condition for their receipt of hundreds of billions of dollars in bailout money.’
‘San Francisco is one of only three markets in the U.S. where the coming office supply is forecast to outpace tenant leasing this year and next, according to Reis Inc., a real estate research company. The others are Houston and Fort Worth in Texas, where developers added new offices amid growth in the energy industry, which is now being hurt by a plunge in oil prices.’
‘In San Francisco, about 2.1 million square feet will come to the market this year, the most since 2002, Reis data show.’
“There is just a lot of supply coming online in a short period of time,” said Ryan Severino, a senior economist at New York-based Reis. “It’s not going to be as easy for developers going forward as it was in the last four to five years, when you essentially could do no wrong because there were no new developments.”
‘Construction cranes dominate the skyline in the South of Market area, where crews are working on office towers as well as luxury condominiums and a new transit center.’
‘Over the past two years, more than 80 percent of new office demand was driven by technology companies, according to Colin Yasukochi, director of research and analysis for Northern California at CBRE. The share is almost twice that of the dot-com boom of the late 1990s, when the financial, legal and media industries were rapidly expanding as well, he said.’
“The office market in San Francisco is strong,” Yasukochi said. “One cautionary point to raise is how dependent this market is on the tech industry.” If demand diminishes, “there is no alternative as most non-tech companies have been reducing their office footprints and getting more efficient,” he said.’
How many of these ‘tech’ firms (black market taxi cabs are tech?) would exist if there weren’t trillions of central bank phoney bucks floating around the world? Similarly:
‘Douglas Blackburn has been crawling in and out of the coal mines of Central Appalachia since he was a boy accompanying his father and grandfather some 50 years ago. The only time that Blackburn, now a coal industry consultant, remembers things being this bad was in the 1990s. Back then, he estimates, almost 40 percent of the region’s mines went bankrupt. “It’s a similar situation,” said Blackburn, who owns Blackacre LLC, a Richmond, Virginia-based consulting firm.’
‘To make matters worse, there’s little chance of a quick rebound in prices. That’s because idling a mine to cut output and stem losses isn’t an option for many companies. The cost of doing so — even on a temporary basis — has become so prohibitive that it can put a miner out of business fast, Blackburn and other industry analysts say.’
‘So companies keep pulling coal out of the ground, opting to take a small, steady loss rather than one big writedown, in the hope that prices will bounce back. That, of course, is only adding to the supply glut in the U.S., the world’s second-biggest producer, and driving prices down further. It’s become, in essence, a trap for miners.’
‘Temporarily closing an operation doesn’t provide much relief, Seth Schwartz, president of Energy Ventures Analysis Inc., an Arlington, Virginia-based energy industry consultant, said March 2 by phone. Equipment has to be maintained and workers have to make sure the roof doesn’t cave in, the mine is ventilated and that water is pumped out, he said.’
‘It’s also difficult to obtain government permits to restart idled operations, said Blackburn. The companies have to keep making interest payments on their debt to avoid bankruptcy, so even if they’re selling at a loss, they can get some cash, he said.’
“You have this really perverse situation where they keep producing,” James Stevenson, director of North American thermal coal at IHS Inc. in Houston, said in a telephone interview. “You’re just shoveling coal into this market that’s oversupplied.”
It should be pointed out that really low borrowing costs exasperate this glut. When you start creating imbalances, you never know how it’s going to get squeezed out. But it will happen.
“To make matters worse, there’s little chance of a quick rebound in prices.”
But nevertheless …
“… companies keep pulling coal out of the ground, opting to take a small, steady loss rather than one big writedown, in the hope that prices will bounce back.”
But prices won’t bounce back because …
“’You’re just shoveling coal into this market that’s oversupplied.’”
Q. “So, tell me, how did you go bankrupt?”
A. “First slowly, and then suddenly.”
And when you go bankrupt you take a lot of the economy out with you. And if the economy that you take out is the entire economy of a town or region then you take out the entire town or region (see Bodie).
And then there’s all the borrowed money that is involved that also gets “taken out”, gets to go poof. When somebody is on the wrong end of this money that goes poof then that person’s money also gets taken out.
So there is a lesson here somewhere and part of this lesson involves making sure that the money that is destined - DESTINED - to be taken out doesn’t belong to you.
‘The Salvation Army has offered stranded workers a one-way ticket back home. But many job seekers seem unwilling to leave—at least not until they can make a success out of their sacrificial move to a place with six months of winter, the worst traffic they’ve ever seen, and a disgruntled, if not miserable, populace.’
“You just have to cowboy up and expect things to get better,” said Terry Ray Cover, a 56-year-old farmer and jack-of-all-trades who came from southeast Iowa on a Greyhound bus in November. He’d heard North Dakota was raining jobs. “They don’t tell you it’s all a lie,” he said, sipping coffee in the Salvation Army on a frigid day in early March. “Places advertise jobs and then tell you they’re not hiring.”
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Comment by In Colorado
2015-03-31 14:01:40
He’d heard North Dakota was raining jobs.
Well, that was the common wisdom, especially in the news. I recall stories of burger flippers making $20/hr.
It should be pointed out that really low borrowing costs exasperate this glut.
Interesting point, Ben—I hadn’t thought about in in quite that way.
I just can’t decide whether I completely buy it yet. Reduced borrowing costs helps marginal operations (that otherwise would go BK) continue to muddle along, producing a glut. However, if those marginal operations went BK, wouldn’t their mines be purchased by a stronger company, which would still want the mine to cover its acquisition and maintenance costs.
It seems to me that the mine would be producing in either case. Perhaps the real distortion occurs when new mines are being developed. If so, the distortions occurred primarily during the past six years, and will continue to be felt for a LONG time.
re coal: no sympathy here. The only good place for dirty coal is in the ground, where it belongs. The best thing that could happen for W Va and the Appalachian states is to find a new industry to create jobs.
If you like your brown cloud, you can keep your brown cloud
Comment by Bring Back the WPA
2015-03-31 11:42:51
Awesome shot g.s.!
Comment by oxide
2015-03-31 13:57:46
Why not, Dan? Pittsburgh had to diversify when the steel refineries went down. I agree with WPA. I’m tired of coal miners saying “this is all we know how to do.” Yes, adjusting to something new isn’t easy, but this has been going on for generations.
Comment by In Colorado
2015-03-31 14:07:02
I took this pic on Sunday at about elevation 13,000′ in Rocky Mountain National Park looking east toward Loveland and Longmont
You don’t even have to be there to see it. Just driving north on I-25 you can see the brown cloud hanging over the Ft. Collins/Loveland/Greeley area. I remember when there hardly was one. And from I-25 it actually looks brown.
We no longer think of tangibles like computer hardware as “tech”, even though they are what makes services like Uber possible. Online Netflix and other streaming services wouldn’t be possible without high speed networks, but no one thinks of routers or switches as “sexy”.
We swoon over the “Cloud” while it is advances in Operating System technology that make it possible. Everyone has heard of the Cloud, yet few have ever heard of OpenStack or VMWare or Zones.
How many of these ‘tech’ firms (black market taxi cabs are tech?) would exist if there weren’t trillions of central bank phoney bucks floating around the world?
Not many. “Tech” is so attractive to get rich quick schemes with such a low barrier to entry.
I remember visiting my cousin who lived in the Chicago Loop in 1999, as the NASDAQ was approaching its bubble high. She and her husband loved ordering stuff from some “new economy” grocery delivery dot com, and remarked how they could have a $0.50 candy bar delivered in ten minutes with no delivery charge.
Can’t remember the name of the company or if they aired a commercial during the Super Bowl, LOLZ.
Former Astronauts & NASA Employees Letter on Global Warming
by Wynne Parry | April 12, 2012 10:02am ET
A NASA spokesman confirmed that the agency received the letter on Tuesday (April 11). [Read the full story about the letter]
March 28, 2012
The Honorable Charles Bolden, Jr.
NASA Administrator
NASA Headquarters
Washington, D.C. 20546-0001
Dear Charlie,
We, the undersigned, respectfully request that NASA and the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) refrain from including unproven remarks in public releases and websites. We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated, especially when considering thousands of years of empirical data. With hundreds of well-known climate scientists and tens of thousands of other scientists publicly declaring their disbelief in the catastrophic forecasts, coming particularly from the GISS leadership, it is clear that the science is NOT settled.
The unbridled advocacy of CO2 being the major cause of climate change is unbecoming of NASA’s history of making an objective assessment of all available scientific data prior to making decisions or public statements.
As former NASA employees, we feel that NASA’s advocacy of an extreme position, prior to a thorough study of the possible overwhelming impact of natural climate drivers is inappropriate. We request that NASA refrain from including unproven and unsupported remarks in its future releases and websites on this subject. At risk is damage to the exemplary reputation of NASA, NASA’s current or former scientists and employees, and even the reputation of science itself.
For additional information regarding the science behind our concern, we recommend that you contact Harrison Schmitt or Walter Cunningham, or others they can recommend to you.
Thank you for considering this request.
Sincerely,
(Attached signatures)
CC: Mr. John Grunsfeld, Associate Administrator for Science
CC: Ass Mr. Chris Scolese, Director, Goddard Space Flight Center
Ref: Letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden, dated 3-26-12, regarding a request for NASA to refrain from making unsubstantiated claims that human produced CO2 is having a catastrophic impact on climate change.
Ref: Letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden, dated 3-26-12, regarding a request for NASA to refrain from making unsubstantiated claims that human produced CO2 is having a catastrophic impact on climate change.
/s/ Jack Barneburg, Jack – JSC, Space Shuttle Structures, Engineering Directorate, 34 years
/s/ Larry Bell – JSC, Mgr. Crew Systems Div., Engineering Directorate, 32 years
/s/ Dr. Donald Bogard – JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 41 years
/s/ Jerry C. Bostick – JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 23 years
/s/ Dr. Phillip K. Chapman – JSC, Scientist – astronaut, 5 years
/s/ Michael F. Collins, JSC, Chief, Flight Design and Dynamics Division, MOD, 41 years
/s/ Dr. Kenneth Cox – JSC, Chief Flight Dynamics Div., Engr. Directorate, 40 years
/s/ Walter Cunningham – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 7, 8 years
/s/ Dr. Donald M. Curry – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Leading Edge, Thermal Protection Sys., Engr. Dir., 44 years
/s/ Leroy Day – Hdq. Deputy Director, Space Shuttle Program, 19 years
/s/ Dr. Henry P. Decell, Jr. – JSC, Chief, Theory & Analysis Office, 5 years
/s/Charles F. Deiterich – JSC, Mgr., Flight Operations Integration, MOD, 30 years
/s/ Dr. Harold Doiron – JSC, Chairman, Shuttle Pogo Prevention Panel, 16 years
/s/ Charles Duke – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 16, 10 years
/s/ Anita Gale
/s/ Grace Germany – JSC, Program Analyst, 35 years
/s/ Ed Gibson – JSC, Astronaut Skylab 4, 14 years
/s/ Richard Gordon – JSC, Astronaut, Gemini Xi, Apollo 12, 9 years
/s/ Gerald C. Griffin – JSC, Apollo Flight Director, and Director of Johnson Space Center, 22 years
/s/ Thomas M. Grubbs – JSC, Chief, Aircraft Maintenance and Engineering Branch, 31 years
/s/ Thomas J. Harmon
/s/ David W. Heath – JSC, Reentry Specialist, MOD, 30 years
/s/ Miguel A. Hernandez, Jr. – JSC, Flight crew training and operations, 3 years
/s/ James R. Roundtree – JSC Branch Chief, 26 years
/s/ Enoch Jones – JSC, Mgr. SE&I, Shuttle Program Office, 26 years
/s/ Dr. Joseph Kerwin – JSC, Astronaut, Skylab 2, Director of Space and Life Sciences, 22 years
/s/ Jack Knight – JSC, Chief, Advanced Operations and Development Division, MOD, 40 years
/s/ Dr. Christopher C. Kraft – JSC, Apollo Flight Director and Director of Johnson Space Center, 24 years
/s/ Paul C. Kramer – JSC, Ass.t for Planning Aeroscience and Flight Mechanics Div., Egr. Dir., 34 years
/s/ Alex (Skip) Larsen
/s/ Dr. Lubert Leger – JSC, Ass’t. Chief Materials Division, Engr. Directorate, 30 years
/s/ Dr. Humbolt C. Mandell – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Program Control and Advance Programs, 40 years
/s/ Donald K. McCutchen – JSC, Project Engineer – Space Shuttle and ISS Program Offices, 33 years
/s/ Thomas L. (Tom) Moser – Hdq. Dep. Assoc. Admin. & Director, Space Station Program, 28 years
/s/ Dr. George Mueller – Hdq., Assoc. Adm., Office of Space Flight, 6 years
/s/ Tom Ohesorge
/s/ James Peacock – JSC, Apollo and Shuttle Program Office, 21 years
/s/ Richard McFarland – JSC, Mgr. Motion Simulators, 28 years
/s/ Joseph E. Rogers – JSC, Chief, Structures and Dynamics Branch, Engr. Directorate,40 years
/s/ Bernard J. Rosenbaum – JSC, Chief Engineer, Propulsion and Power Division, Engr. Dir., 48 years
/s/ Dr. Harrison (Jack) Schmitt – JSC, Astronaut Apollo 17, 10 years
/s/ Gerard C. Shows – JSC, Asst. Manager, Quality Assurance, 30 years
/s/ Kenneth Suit – JSC, Ass’t Mgr., Systems Integration, Space Shuttle, 37 years
/s/ Robert F. Thompson – JSC, Program Manager, Space Shuttle, 44 years/s/ Frank Van Renesselaer – Hdq., Mgr. Shuttle Solid Rocket Boosters, 15 years
/s/ Dr. James Visentine – JSC Materials Branch, Engineering Directorate, 30 years
/s/ Manfred (Dutch) von Ehrenfried – JSC, Flight Controller; Mercury, Gemini & Apollo, MOD, 10 years
… and not one of the signers are climatologists or atmospheric physicists. None of them have professional qualifications in the climate sciences. Not impressed.
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Comment by AmazingRuss
2015-03-31 12:42:09
But they AGREE with the deniers! thats all the qualifications they need.
So that’s about…46, if you count the janitors, and the astronut who thinks he’s found Noah’s Ark somewhere in Turkey. NASA currently has about 18,000 employees. Want to try some math?
I wonder how many of these guys care more about NASA being fully funded in the next budget than they do about global warming? Critizing global warming theory is job security for them.
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Comment by phony scandals
2015-03-31 08:51:48
“Critizing global warming theory is job security for them.”
Former Astronauts & NASA Employees Letter on Global Warming
by Wynne Parry | April 12, 2012 10:02am ET
A NASA spokesman confirmed that the agency received the letter on Tuesday (April 11).
Comment by Dman
2015-03-31 09:12:20
It’s funny how not one of them can be called an environmental scientist.
“NASA currently has about 18,000 employees. Want to try some math?”
President’s 2013 budget requests 6% increase for climate and global change research
Posted on February 14, 2012 by Rick Piltz
Although the USGCRP budget is spread across 10 agencies (with additional related activities in the Depts of Defense and State and the US Agency for International Development), more than 90% of the USGCRP total is concentrated in just four agencies:
NASA – $1.469 billion FY2013 request
Dept. of Commerce – $342 million, almost all of which is in NOAA
National Science Foundation – $333 million
Dept of Energy – $230 million
Yes because science is a vote and you personally know the views of all 18,000 workers and can confirm they did not sign because they believe in CAGW and not because they did not get a chance or were afraid of political retribution.
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Comment by Albuquerquedan
2015-03-31 08:49:12
More sky is falling nonsense from the CAGW crowd, more likely the increased co2 in the atmosphere has helped yields:
Someone should let them know how well the fossil fuel industry pays their hired scientific shills. But since all signers are former employees of NASA, and hence beyond most political retribution, they may already know that. Heck, they may already be working for them!
Comment by Albuquerquedan
2015-03-31 08:58:23
We were talking about the 18,000 people at NASA, It was your side that was trying to convince us that anyone that did not sign was a believer. Total garbage, in the end they all work for Obama as head the executive branch and they are well aware of his position on AGW.
Comment by Steadykat
2015-03-31 09:15:45
“No bucks, no Buck Rogers”.
One would think that an entity that put men on the moon could find a more creative reason than just stoking fears over man made global warming to justify subsidizing it’s dwindling tax payer funded revenue streams.
Sad that NASA never did make those Mars space colonies a reality.
Even more disappointing is that this once dynamic entity with futuristic ideals has become nothing more than a politically correct lobbying machine that politicians now use as a conduit to bring pork home to their well connected friends who live in their districts.
Comment by Oddfellow
2015-03-31 09:17:40
But they held the same opinion under Bush.
Comment by Blue Skye
2015-03-31 10:02:57
“Bush”
You won’t know what their opinions are until after they retire.
Comment by Oddfellow
2015-03-31 10:06:34
46 out of how many retired NASA employees?
Comment by phony scandals
2015-03-31 10:51:54
Global warming data FAKED by government to fit climate change fictions
Monday, June 23, 2014
by Mike Adams,
Now, in what might be the largest scientific fraud ever uncovered, NASA and the NOAA have been caught red-handed altering historical temperature data to produce a “climate change narrative” that defies reality. This finding, originally documented on the Real Science website, is detailed here.
We now know that historical temperature data for the continental United States were deliberately altered by NASA and NOAA scientists in a politically-motivated attempt to rewrite history and claim global warming is causing U.S. temperatures to trend upward. The data actually show that we are in a cooling trend, not a warming trend (see charts below).
Here’s the proof of the climate change fraud
Here’s the chart of U.S. temperatures published by NASA in 1999. It shows the highest temperatures actually occurred in the 1930’s, followed by a cooling trend ramping downward to the year 2000:
The authenticity of this chart is not in question. It is published by James Hansen on NASA’s website. (2) On that page, Hansen even wrote, “Empirical evidence does not lend much support to the notion that climate is headed precipitately toward more extreme heat and drought.”
After the Obama administration took office, however, and started pushing the global warming narrative for political purposes, NASA was directed to alter its historical data in order to reverse the cooling trend and show a warming trend instead. This was accomplished using climate-modeling computers that simply fabricated the data the researchers wished to see instead of what was actually happening in the real world.
Using the exact same data found in the chart shown above (with a few years of additional data after 2000), NASA managed to misleadingly distort the chart to depict the appearance of global warming:
The authenticity of this chart is also not in question. It can be found right now on NASA’s servers. (4)
This new, altered chart shows that historical data — especially the severe heat and droughts experienced in the 1930’s — are now systematically suppressed to make them appear cooler than they really were. At the same time, temperature data from the 1970’s to 2010 are strongly exaggerated to make them appear warmer than they really were.
This is a clear case of scientific fraud being carried out on a grand scale in order to deceive the entire world about global warming.
“We have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.”
Steven Schneider
National Center for Atmospheric Research (NOAA) climate researcher and global warming action promoter
Of course then Steven became a “former” employee of NOAA.
Comment by phony scandals
2015-03-31 17:08:22
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
Jonathan Gruber was right about you guys.
Published by on 21 Jul 2010
Comment on Dr. Stephen Schneider
Climatologist Dr. Stephen Schneider died this week. Although he was one of the leading promoters of climate change fears (in the 1970s he warned against global cooling[1], more recently against global warming), Schneider could also be remarkably candid about what was going on behind the scenes of what is supposed to be a “settled” science.
He is famous for noting that climate scientists will exaggerate if the truth isn’t “scary” enough:
‘China has admitted that its economy is hurting with the country’s growth rate experiencing a rough slowdown that significantly needs a major intervention. According to China’s top banker, Zhou Xiaochan, the country’s economy has tumbled ‘a bit too much’ as he urged the government to take drastic measures to arrest the slowing growth rate.’
‘Zhou said China has still room to set the economy in order, such as adopting ‘quantitative measures’ and setting interest rates.’
‘Zhou said China’s economic slowdown has affected the performance of various financial sectors such as banking, housing, and the corporate scene. Reports said corporations are neck-deep in debt and are seeing pathetic profit margins. Banks are swamped with debts, too, while the housing market is experiencing a slowdown. Zhou, who spoke before regional leaders at the Boao Forum for Asia, admitted that the country’s economy has not been growing this slowly since the 1990s.’
‘As it acknowledged that the slowdown was rough, China assured the world that the situation is under control. Despite the financial experts’ calls for China to issue intervening measures, Chinese officials have opted to ‘monitor deflation’. The experts said that the problem with deflation is that China is strapped for cash and that the banking system is laden with debt.The people need cash in order to pay interest on their debt.’
‘Another thing reportedly hurting the economy was President Xi Jinping’s anti-corruption campaign. Zhou said the campaign has driven away the rich who are scared to spend that much amount of money. Add to this, rich government officials and businessmen accused of corruption have been arrested and thrown in jail. Zhou said these arrests have disrupted the way businesses are being run in China.’
“The experts said that the problem with deflation is that China is strapped for cash and that the banking system is laden with debt.The people need cash in order to pay interest on their debt.”
My favorite part:
“The people need cash in order to pay interest on their debt.”
And if there is any cash left over after they pay the interest on their debt then they can use it for food or for some other wasteful purpose.
And when you are done with Ben’s post you can read this little nugget on China Adan;
At 282 percent of GDP, according to the McKinsey Global Institute, China’s total debt now exceeds America’s 269 percent and Germany’s 258 percent. Even more worrying: If the credit buildup continues at its current pace, that ratio will explode to 400 percent by 2018.
“However, MGI calculates that China’s government has the capacity to bail out the financial sector should a property-related debt crisis develop. The challenge will be to contain future debt increases and reduce the risks of such a crisis, without putting the brakes on economic growth.”
SCdave, what many on this board do not seem to understand, just like in a personal bankruptcy there is a difference between secured and unsecured debt, there is a difference between going deep into debt to create superb infrastructure and state of the art factories and our debt which was largely the result of income transfer payments. The reason why China is still growing at 7% is because of how it spent its money. Taking it back to a personal bankruptcy or even a corporate liquidation, if you are a secured creditor and the value of the secured asset exceeds the debt owed, you are going to sleep well at night. However, if you are an unsecured creditor owed a large debt, you better have sleeping pills. That is the difference between the two countries, we almost have the same debt levels as China and have horrible infrastructure and old factories.
Also, it is one thing to be carrying a lot of debt when you are young and receiving large pay raises and having lots of debt when you are old and facing no wage growth or a reduced cash flow due to retirement. Once again China is the former and we are the latter.
Everything ever posted here makes your point if you twist the facts and squint hard.
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Comment by Albuquerquedan
2015-03-31 07:58:43
I am not twisting the facts at all, I merely connected to a link on the article and read what Bloomberg did not want you to read and posted the language. Breakdown China’s debt and the vast majority of it belongs to SOEs, that can easily sell equity to replace the debt. And it is happening more and more, thus the debt can eliminated and the people not the state can end up owning the enterprise, it is a win/win ( I do hate that platitude).
Comment by Dman
2015-03-31 08:29:54
“there is a difference between going deep into debt to create superb infrastructure and state of the art factories…”
That’s the first time I ever heard ghost cities called superb. And the “investments” that are being made now are really just payments on high interest loans, a huge number of which are probably secured with the same assets, which are worthless anyway.
“Breakdown China’s debt and the vast majority of it belongs to SOEs, that can easily sell equity to replace the debt.”
That’s the first time I ever heard that one. Everything I’ve read says it’s the SOE’s that are the problem, not the solution.
Comment by Albuquerquedan
2015-03-31 08:39:52
Everything I’ve read says it’s the SOE’s that are the problem, not the solution.
I said they were the problem. However, the solution is simple, turn them into private corporations and have people buy the equity to replace the debt by selling the bonds they own in the SOEs.
The blue chips have been a bit more volatile than usual this month. In fact, if we see triple-digit action today, it will mean the Dow has turned in a move in excess of 100 points 16 times in March. That would be the second most of any month in history, according to Ryan Detrick.
October 2008 had the most at 20.
There are no big moves brewing in premarket trading just yet, but this is the final day of the first quarter and there’s plenty on tap to shake up the markets. For starters, Tuesday is the deadline for a deal in the Iranian nuclear talks. That could fire up big moves in oil.
“Any deal which provokes the unwinding of oil-related sanctions — regardless if over a protracted period — will likely spur a bearish reaction, while the absence of a deal will likely encourage a knee-jerk short-term bounce,” commodity analyst Matt Smith said.
The banksters are running scared in the U.S. The bad mouthing of China is linked to the desire to prevent China from creating things like development banks that they do not control. With one interesting exception, China’s external debt is very, very, low overall about 6% of its GDP. Thus, Chinese corporate debt is a Chinese consumers’ assets. It will be very interesting to see what the stock market surge is going to do to corporate debt since a lot of them will probably sell stock to eliminate debt. But getting to the exception, a few years ago when China was trying to slow the housing bubble it cracked down on bank loans to developers, they turned to the international bond market for funds.
Chinese Corporate Debt is a Chinese consumers’ assets?
I think my head just exploded.
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Comment by Albuquerquedan
2015-03-31 08:54:22
Why it is what corporate America does all the time? The debt is owed to someone and I showed that it was not foreign debt, thus the debt is owed to the Chinese people. Sorry but it is not difficult to understand.
Comment by Dman
2015-03-31 09:19:28
“..the debt is owed to the Chinese people.”
Who will get paid, party leaders, or the Chinese people? Well connected banks, or the average citizen who gave his life savings to some fly by night trust?
So let me understand the problem, China is slowing to around 7% growth due to its addressing of: (1) pollution problems (closing its most polluting plants (2) its corruption problems (3) allowing bankrupt companies to actually go bankrupt instead of using extend and pretend and giving them money.
These are bad things why? BTW, I like Costco chickens because they are fully plucked, cook correctly and cheap.
A Bank of China Ltd report has predicted China’s economy to stabilize in the second quarter of this year, and GDP growth to rise from around 7 percent in the first quarter to 7.2 percent in the second.
Zhou Jingtong, a senior economist with the bank’s Institute of International Finance, said in the report on Monday that while the economy continues to slow, “we are seeing a series of positive changes emerging from the recent economic moves, such as the rapid growth of private investment and strong profit growth in the equipment and high-tech manufacturing industries”.
The tertiary sector of the economy, also known as the service sector, is growing rapidly, making it a main channel for employment, Zhou said. In the first two months of this year, service industry production increased 7.4 percent.
Statistics show that every percentage point of GDP growth created 1.79 million jobs in 2014.
The report said consumption rose 11 percent in the first two months, up 20 basis points from the previous year, and its contribution to economic growth is expected to further increase in the first quarter.
During the same period, it also showed that private investment increased 14.7 percent year-on-year and new forms of businesses related to the Internet continue to expand at a high speed. Online sales of products and services increased 44.6 percent from a year earlier to 475.1 billion yuan ($76 billion).
Fixed-asset investment, meanwhile, slowed further in the first two months, among which the growth of real estate investment fell 8.9 percentage points from the previous year.
My other post do not post yet but this links to the external debt of China at 6% of its GDP, the U.S. owes people outside the country 98% of its GDP. The debt ratio will drop sharply in China when the bond owners convert their debt stakes into shares. This will happen due to the stock market surge and the expected issuance of stock by the companies to take advantage of the higher valuations:
Using America as an apology of why China is not in deep trouble is an interesting tactic for debate. There must be a term for that. Could it be “deflection”?
Comment by Albuquerquedan
2015-03-31 08:34:58
Actually the deflection is by the MSM that wants the population in the U.S. to think China is in big trouble when the U.S. is in big trouble. It is amazing how much they ignore stories in China about soaring wages, probably because they show how poorly the U.S. economy is performing and might cause American workers to question globalization and open borders. China does not give a sh#t about any country but itself and pursues an aggressive nationalistic economic policy and strictly limits immigration, I don’t want to live in China but do wish we would do the same.
Comment by Blue Skye
2015-03-31 08:53:55
So, you really believe that when they shut down a factory or mine or old power plant, it is to be a good world citizen?
LOL.
What the American press does write about wages in China is that it is impossible to obtain reliable data. How many articles can you write about that?
At the turn of the century credit market debt outstanding in the US was about $27 trillion, and we’ve not been slouches attempting to borrow our way to prosperity. Total credit market debt is now $59 trillion—-so America has been burying itself in debt at nearly a 7% annual rate.
But move over America! As the 21st century dawned, China had about $1 trillion of credit market debt outstanding, but after a blistering pace of “borrow and build” for 14 years it now carries nearly $25 trillion. But here’s the thing: this stupendous 25X growth of debt occurred in the context of an economic system designed and run by elderly party apparatchiks who had learned their economics from Mao’s Little Red Book!
That means there was no legitimate banking system in China—just giant state bureaus which were run by party operatives and a modus operandi of parceling out quotas for national credit growth from the top, and then water-falling them down a vast chain of command to the counties, townships and villages. There have never been any legitimate financial prices in China—all interest rates and FX rates have been pegged and regulated to the decimal point; nor has there ever been any honest accounting either—-loans have been perpetual options to extend and pretend.
And, needless to say, there is no system of financial discipline based on contract law. China’s GDP has grown by $10 trillion dollars during this century alone—that is, there has been a boom across the land that makes the California gold rush appear pastoral by comparison. Yet in all that frenzied prospecting there have been almost no mistakes, busted camps, empty pans or even personal bankruptcies. When something has occasionally gone wrong with an “investment” the prospectors have gathered in noisy crowds on the streets and pounded their pans for relief—-a courtesy that the regime has invariably granted.
So in two short decades, China has erected a monumental Ponzi economy that is economically rotten to the core. It has 1.5 billion tons of steel capacity, but “sell-through” demand of less than half that amount— that is, on-going demand for sheet steel to go into cars and appliances and rebar into replacement construction once the current pyramid building binge finally expires. The same is true for its cement industry, ship-building, solar and aluminum industries—to say nothing of 70 million empty luxury apartments and vast stretches of over-built highways, fast rail, airports, shopping mails and new cities.
In short, the flip-side of the China’s giant credit bubble is the most massive malinvesment of real economic resources—-labor, raw materials and capital goods—ever known. Effectively, the country-side pig sties have been piled high with copper inventories and the urban neighborhoods with glass, cement and rebar erections that can’t possibly earn an economic return, but all of which has become “collateral” for even more “loans” under the Chinese Ponzi.
‘China has admitted that its economy is hurting with the country’s growth rate experiencing a rough slowdown that significantly needs a major intervention.
Everyone run out and go buy a new iPhone 6 or something. If you can’t afford one the Bank of China will be happy to lend you the money.
“The city of Denver is looking into installing at least two public toilets downtown as a way to curb complaints about public urination and defecation.”
‘There was a story in The New York Times today that made you just stop and say, wait… what? There are, apparently, tens of thousands of homeowners in this country who — thanks to the mortgage meltdown and the ensuing foreclosure crisis — haven’t made a mortgage payment in more than five years.’
“People in states like Florida, New York and New Jersey — where lenders have to sue to evict you from your house if you’re delinquent on your mortgage — many of these cases, thousands of them, have gone on for so long that they’re up against the statute of limitations,” says Michael Corkery the the Times.’
But I picked up on this a while back. Reposting, again:
‘Investors including US mortgage giant Fannie Mae holding decade-old residential mortgage bonds are fretting over potentially huge losses on securities where delayed foreclosures could lead to complete write-offs on defaulted loans. Mortgage servicers, whose job is to ensure bondholders receive repayments on loans, have frequently failed to foreclose on delinquent debt in a timely manner, and therefore risk falling foul of legal deadlines which limit the time home-owners can be chased for payment.’
‘Fannie Mae’s general counsel held a conference call just before the Christmas holidays - all of its retained law firms were required to participate - to ask how the government-run mortgage agency could alleviate such losses, a person with knowledge of the call told IFR.’
“[Fannie Mae's] general counsel asked: ‘How bad is it?’” the person said, adding that one of the lawyers on the call answered: “We can’t even begin to tell you - there are so many loans.”
I’ve been fighting a strong urge to short the market recently. Risky, I know, but if you look at the 10yr chart for the S&P500, and then try to align that with reality as we know it… Um, no—something has to give.
You would have thought the same in 1998, but it took Wall Street bulls a couple more years to get the memo. Cows are not among the most intelligent of mammals.
As I said before the thought of inexperienced Asian drivers hitting congested streets in SUVs is kind of scary. China may have to do away with its one child policy just to replace the accident victims.
Virtually all the subdivisions eventually get filled and so will their cities.
How? The one child policy guarantees that won’t happen. If anything, the opposite will happen in the coming decades as China grays even more and its population begins to decline.
As some have pointed out here, middle aged Chinese couples who already own a flat, will inherit 2 more flats from their parents when they pass away; and there won’t be any potential tenants or buyers for them.
It’s pretty much already flattened out and will stay flat before going into a steep decline. So who exactly is going to buy or rent all those flats?
Comment by Rental Watch
2015-03-31 09:39:35
As I understand it, there is a massive urbanization move in China…lots of people living in rural areas moving to Cities. Older homes are bulldozed, new homes are lived in.
Comment by Housing Analyst
2015-03-31 09:47:41
Of course Rental_Fraud.
Now about those 25 million excess empty and defaulted houses in the US.
Comment by In Colorado
2015-03-31 11:56:14
As I understand it, there is a massive urbanization move in China…lots of people living in rural areas moving to Cities. Older homes are bulldozed, new homes are lived in.
And these peasants, who will be working for Foxconn for $2/hr (if they can find work at all) will be able to afford to buy one of the surplus flats? Or will the Government buy them and let the unwashed live in them for virtually free (Holy Free Cheese, Batman).
And will 400-500 million people really move to the city?
Comment by Rental Watch
2015-03-31 12:16:04
“And will 400-500 million people really move to the city?”
That is the question. My understanding is that if the urbanization trend continues, the “ghost cities” won’t remain ghostly for very long. If that trend slows or stops, they will be very cool sets for post-apocalyptic movies.
Comment by Blue Skye
2015-03-31 13:44:38
Money was made doing the deals to build the empty cities. Everyone in the world helped pour money into the wasteful endeavors through higher commodity prices. The people who profited have no further interest in whether there is or will be an organic demand for 150 million empty high rise “houses”.
Goooooood Morning Chicago…..A reprise of yesterday’s missive on Chicago ILLANNOY.
As one HBB’er says from time to time - “This sucker could go down” - G. W. Bush………
You gotta live here to truly understand how bad it really is - the dirt on the streets after the Feb 1 snowstorm is just now emerging as the drifts melt away……Sorta like Chicago - pretty and clean for a while until the facade melts away to expose the dirt underneath.
Prosecutor: Your Honor, I object to this witness. Improper foundation. I’m not aware of this person’s qualifications. I’d like to voir dire this witness as to the extent of his expertise
J: Granted. Mr. Trotter, you may proceed.
Q: Oddfellow, what’s your current profession?
A: I’m an out of work hairdresser.
Q: Out of work hairdresser? Now, in what way does that qualify you as an expert Swindler?
A: It doesn’t.
Q: In what way are you qualified?
A: Well, my father was a Realtor, his father was a Realtor, my mother’s father was a Realtor, my three brothers are Realtors, four uncles on my father’s side are Realtors–
Q: Your family is obviously qualified to swindle, but have you ever worked as a Realtor?
A: Yeah, at my father’s Century 21 office, yeah.
Q: As a Realtor? What did you do in your father’s Century 21 office?
A: Swindle, Deflect, Bamboozle
10 to 1 the old man was a drug dealer
Noun: welcher - someone who swindles you by not repaying a debt or wager
Enteroviruses commonly circulate in the U.S. during summer and fall. EV-D68 was first identified in California in 1962. Over the past thirty years, only small numbers were reported in the U.S.
The CDC hasn’t suggested reasons for the current uptick or its origin. Without that answer, some question whether the disease is being spread by the presence of tens of thousands of illegal immigrant children from Central America admitted to the U.S. in the past year.
The origin could be entirely unrelated.
However, a study published in Virology Journal, found EV-D68 among some of the 3,375 young, ill people tested in eight Latin American countries, including the Central American nations of El Salvador and Nicaragua, in 2013.
Though the U.S. government is keeping secret the locations of the illegal immigrant children, there are significant numbers of them in both cities in which the current outbreak was first identified, Kansas City, Missouri and Chicago, Illinois, according to local advocates and press reports.
man o man - I have been wandering around with a sinus thing and chest congestion for a couple of months - makes me wonder if our little brown friends south of the border brought this with ‘em here to the fair metropolis of Chicago ILLANNOY. Been bad enough that I have been to my doc - recent as two weeks ago and nothing beyond the ordinary. Symptoms you might ask? Stuffed sinuses - gobs of gob and occassional burning in my bronchi - hmmmm…..
There is only one way to end the financial tyranny of the Federal Reserve–abolish it, and put an end to the predatory pathologies of its policies.
The Federal Reserve has failed not just the nation and the U.S. economy, but more importantly, the American people that it supposedly serves. It has also failed the world, by showing other central banks that they can reward private banks and the top .01% with absolute impunity.
The Fed’s free money for financiers enriched the top layer of corporate management and the top 1% who own most of the nation’s equities. You can read the details here: Factset Buyback Quarterly.
The other group of financiers with access to the Fed’s free money for financiers has been private equity. So did the private equity multi-millionaires borrow the Fed’s largesse to build new plant and hire new employees? Did they invest the borrowed billions in productive startups?
No–they used the money to buy existing companies and bleed them dry. The Glory Days of Private Equity Are Over (Via Mark G.):
There you have it: the Fed has lowered productivity and GDP and stripmined savers, widows and orphans to further enrich the obscenely wealthy. Recall this from my entry last week, Will Cash Always Be Trash, Or Will It One Day Be King?
Between 2009 and 2012, the first years of the economic recovery, the top 1% saw their incomes climb 31.4% — or, 95% of the total gain — while the bottom 99% saw growth of 0.4%.
In his posting today, Mr. Bernanke explains why he doesn’t agree with Larry Summers’ view that the U.S. is in a state of “secular stagnation.” Bernanke takes “issue with Larry’s claim that we have never seen full employment during the past several decades without the presence of a financial bubble.”
What the bubble-o-philes keep ignoring is the aftermath of the bubbles.
Bubbles are driven by delusions that value exists where it doesn’t. Tulip bulbs to a couple of guys and a server making vaporware. Both are briefly highly valued, but eventually reality sets in when people try to convert the perception of value into currency.
‘Located in the coveted “Bird Streets” area above Sunset Boulevard. Just off Doheny and minutes from the action on the Sunset Strip. This is your chance to tailor a home to your individual taste and specific needs and watch your investment grow. 3 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms upstairs with living space downstairs, including an office and a bonus studio. Great patio deck off the living room with an incredible view.
3 mill for a house that will have rationed tap water this summer. I guess if you can actually afford it you’ll be able to afford to flush the toilets with Perrier.
2 former federal agents charged with stealing Bitcoin during Silk Road probe
By Evan Perez, CNN Justice Reporter
Updated 5:20 PM ET, Mon March 30, 2015
Washington (CNN)The federal government became owners of one of the biggest troves of Bitcoin, thanks to seizing millions of dollars in the digital currency from criminals associated with the online black market Silk Road.
Two federal agents who helped lead one of several investigations in the case allegedly decided they wanted some of the money for themselves, according to a new federal court documents.
The two now-former agents from the Drug Enforcement Administration and the U.S. Secret Service are charged with wire fraud, money laundering and other offenses for allegedly stealing Bitcoin during the federal investigation of Silk Road, an underground illicit black market federal prosecutors shut down in 2013.
The charges against the agents could end up causing complications for the government’s case against Ross Ulbricht, also known as “Dread Pirate Roberts”, the Silk Road founder. Ulbricht was found guilty last year of aiding drug trafficking with his site. He is awaiting sentencing. As a result of the case against Ulbricht and others, the federal government seized bitcoin that it said at the time was valued at more than $33 million.
Dawn Thompson racked up $155,000 in student loans for a Corinthian College degree that proved worthless. Now she refuses to pay it off.
It’s a risky move, but she’s not alone. More than 100 of the now-defunct for-profit school’s students are taking the same stand. And the government is willing to hear them out.
The “debt strikers” are asking the federal government to forgive their loans because they were ripped off by the school.
On Tuesday, 14 of the strikers were scheduled to meet with reps from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the Department of Education, which has the power to cancel the loans. Officials wouldn’t say what the agenda was for the meeting, and it’s not uncommon for the CFPB to meet with students struggling to pay off loans.
This is the first time the “debt strikers” have been acknowledged by the government.
“I believe every student from Corinthian College who was lied to should have their loans forgiven so they can to go a real school and get a real degree,” she told CNNMoney before Tuesday’s meeting.
Thompson, 49, earned a bachelor’s degree in paralegal studies from one of Corinthian’s online schools, Everest, in 2011. As a single mom of two young kids at the time, she enrolled at the school mostly for the convenience. She could log in online after work and still be home with her children.
But the wealth of job opportunities the school touted never transpired. So Thompson returned to the school to pursue a master’s in business administration, trying to make herself more marketable.
But the CFPB started investigating the for-profit school in 2012, so Thompson decided it wasn’t worth the money and dropped out. She now works as a bank teller.
Her story is similar to those of other Corinthian students. The school is being sued by the Feds for an alleged predatory lending scheme, preying on low-income students, and falsely inflating job placement numbers. It was largely sold off for parts last fall.
Related: If I marry you, do I marry your student loans too?
The government has already ordered about $480 million in debt relief for Corinthian students thanks to a deal it made with a company that’s acquiring some Corinthian campuses. The lawsuit is ongoing, and students could see even more debt relief.
For now, Thompson doesn’t know if she’s eligible for any relief under that deal.
Of her $155,000 in debt, Thompson owes about $120,000 in federal loans. Payments aren’t due yet on those, but they are on the $35,000 she has in private loans.
“I’m constantly worrying about being homeless, it’s always on my mind,” Thompson said.
“Related: If I marry you, do I marry your student loans too?”
Lots of husbands end up paying their wife’s student loans once the “bun is in the oven.” It’s one of those unspoken benefits the non-career, liberal arts female enjoys.
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I don’t agree with everything here, but there are some good points:
‘Shah Gilani writes: When I moved to Sarasota, Fla., in 1999, I was invited by a prominent local to an “un-wedding wedding” to make new friends in town. I accepted the invitation and, not wanting to display my ignorance, avoided asking the burning question: “What’s an un-wedding wedding?”
‘Inevitably, I found out what an un-wedding wedding is. It’s a full-blown wedding, only the host isn’t actually getting married. He or she wants to get married but isn’t – and goes through the motions anyway.’
‘This manipulation of celebratory events to fabricate optimism about a desired future reminds me of the state of housing in the United States today. There’s no reason to celebrate anything in the housing market’s un-recovery recovery. Past and present manipulations must be continued to prevent collapse, but they won’t help economic growth in the United States as they did until 2000. Instead, those manipulations only act as a headwind from time to time.’
‘According to a graph on the National Association of Home Builders’ website, new single-family home sales going back to 1978 show that current levels of sales are barely approaching 1980 levels. They are more than 50% below average sales from 1980 to 2006. While new home sales, which make up one-tenth of home sales, on the surface looked robust in February, existing home sales rose a scant 1.2% according to the National Association of Realtors.’
‘Free-market capitalism wedded to democracy yields a living, changing economic system that thrives on creative destruction and withers under socialist-style command and control. The Federal Reserve’s interest-rate manipulations over the past 20 years only prove they are incapable of fostering natural growth in the economy.’
‘The Fed never should have been allowed to manipulate rates so low for so long to inflate the housing bubble in the first place. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had to be bailed out, but by now should have been dismantled. They’re backing more mortgages now than ever before.’
‘While two governments and the Fed couldn’t let the financial system implode and too-big-to-fail insolvent banks eat their own poison, everybody should have by now worked together to have broken up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac once they were back on their feet.’
‘What people forget is the Fed and the government helped bail out builders after the crash. In a May 6, 2010, Reuters article, author Helen Chernikoff quoted Moody’s Economy.com Chief Economist Mark Zandi saying, “Without the government’s support, in all likelihood we would have seen more failures among the builders. It’s almost hard to list all the things that have been done to support homebuilding either directly or indirectly.”
‘Then the Fed, with a wink and a nod from successive government administrations went on a $2 trillion Treasury bond-buying binge to start up its zero interest-rate policy (ZIRP). And to prove no matter how much money it throws at housing it is hapless, the Fed bought $1.8 trillion of mortgage-backed securities (MBS) to narrow the MBS-over-Treasury spread to try and make more mortgage money available. That didn’t work.’
‘Without a so-called “clearing mechanism” that balances home sales and rental rates based on supply and demand against free-market interest rates reflecting real-world risk and returns in the $16.8 trillion U.S. economy, not only won’t the housing market ever fully recover, but the economy won’t either. Like an un-wedding wedding, the housing market’s un-recovery recovery is a sad state of affairs.’
I was reading the other day and one person asked, ‘when the housing market was falling, did the Federal Reserve (and I would add the government, and FASB) let the market find it’s natural level? Or did it intervene and prevent the market from establishing a real equilibrium?’ There isn’t any question:
‘Without the government’s support, in all likelihood we would have seen more failures among the builders. It’s almost hard to list all the things that have been done to support homebuilding either directly or indirectly’
From yesterday:
‘In January the family moved to a town home in a rental community, and quickly found they weren’t the only family forced into renting. ‘If you drive around our community, you’ll see moving boxes stacked up in the garages,’ he said. ‘No one wants to unpack, because they think they’ll be moving again soon.’
OK, but here’s the thing; you are all living in houses! There’s no freaking shortage of houses! Oh, the rent is high, the prices are high. Uh, yeah, and when have we heard that before? They were “forced” into renting, heaven forbid!
Come on. These silly emotional word games are still being used? You want to show me a market ‘recovery’? Take away the scaffolding Ms. Yellen. Let this little monster stand on its own feet Mel Watts. Oh, it can’t? It’s too fragile? Or are all the teat suckers too hungry to stop this obvious con?
Someone invoked the expression “false positive” a few days ago. And when housing demand is examined, the only word that comes to mind is radioactive.
Metro Denver is the kool-aid capital of the USA right now.
Breaking news:
http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2015/03/31/metro-denver-tops-nation-for-1-year-home-price.html
Except that Denver housing demand has cratered 5% YoY….. and falling.
http://files.zillowstatic.com/research/public/Metro/Metro_Turnover_AllHomes.csv
Friend here bid on a house recently and lost, there were 14 other offers
Can you imagine being that dumb?
Maybe he lost because he was smart and didn’t bid enough.
Friends of ours who have asked me for years whether “now is the time to buy” just bought in San Diego at or near the Echo Bubble peak.
Given that propping up the value of housing is a national policy priority, my lips are sealed against offering any further opinions on timing of a home purchase.
“Friend here bid on a house recently and lost…”
Did ‘ya celebrate?
Friend here bid on a house recently and lost, there were 14 other offers
14 offers … holy cr@p. So much for Denver cratering right now … but when it does … look out below!
Cratering demand results in cratering prices.
Goon - saw a mid century in Belleview Acres - around southglenn - same thing and what is interesting is the paperwork fell through on the house and it is now back on the market - makes me wonder what is really going on there.
“Or are all the teat suckers too hungry to stop this obvious con?”
Just to be clear, you are referring here to bootstrapping entrepreneurs in the private sector, not teat sucking government employees or contractors, right?
In a world where the government foams the runway for banks, there isn’t much of a difference.
I think this includes everyone who is vested in keeping things the way they are and not letting the reckoning occur, rich, poor or in between because it gores their ox. A very large segment of the population wants government to do whatever it takes to keep housing prices up, up, up, particularly the price of their house.
A very large segment of the population wants government to do whatever it takes to keep housing prices up, up, up, particularly the price of their house
When you consider that 60 odd percent “own” a house of some sort, that is not surprising. Everyone I talk to is hoping to someday sell their house for some exorbitant price when they retire and move to some low cost of living locale.
I tell them that they should sell now (if they can). The response is usually the same: “but then we’d have to shudder rent. I tell that that’s better than getting stucco, but they (at least the Denverites) believe that houses will always sell like hot cakes, and refuse to believe that the current bubble is temporary, and roll their eyes when you tell them prices will eventually crash.
“That didn’t work.’” ???
Really? Well house prices skyrocketed in the last 3 years along with stocks and no one (outside of this blog) seems able to conceive of any kind of crash happening again. If things stay where they are now, it did work. If they stay withing a plus or minus ten percent band from where we are now for the next 5 years then it did work. Long term, who knows.
I’m goddamned cynical right now because I’ve recently seen some economic foolishness being paid off and rewarded due to that runup the last 3 years.
I can ask $50k for my 10 year old GMC truck but where is the buyer at that price?
Which might have something to do with the fact that housing demand is down a whopping 17% YoY nationally. See for yourself.
http://files.zillowstatic.com/research/public/Metro/Metro_Turnover_AllHomes.csv
Another way to look at intervention is that high prices were a transfer from renters and prospective future homeowners to builders and current owners. I’m not sure at what point penalizing one group of American citizens to reward another was added to the Fed’s policy mandate.
‘Past and present manipulations must be continued to prevent collapse’
It’s not working.
“Past and present manipulations must be continued to prevent collapse”
Or maybe delay the collapse.
Pray and delay. Or, in my case, prey and delay.
New comps should take hold over the next several months when the current crop of price reduced stuff sells. I’m already seeing wide gaps in similar properties based on some needing to sell more quickly.
My concern is that the new comps just get ignored.
“‘Inevitably, I found out what an un-wedding wedding is. It’s a full-blown wedding, only the host isn’t actually getting married. He or she wants to get married but isn’t – and goes through the motions anyway.’”
I like it, maybe they should have un-funerals too. You lie in the casket, everybody cries and lies about how great you were, but you get to listen and enjoy it. Then, at the end of the affair, you pop out of your coffin and have a drink with your un-mourners, who cheer your return.
You get to enjoy your expensive funeral while you’re alive!
Un-divorce every Friday night anyone?
I’ve heard of wedding-type ceremonies where the person — usually an empowered woman — doesn’t want to get married. I’ve heard it described as she is “marrying herself.” Is this the same as an un-wedding?
I like it, maybe they should have un-funerals too. You lie in the casket, everybody cries and lies about how great you were, but you get to listen and enjoy it. Then, at the end of the affair, you pop out of your coffin and have a drink with your un-mourners, who cheer your return.
You get to enjoy your expensive funeral while you’re alive!
Somewhere, there is a mortician saying “Hey, that’s not a bad idea.”
Did private equity firms go overboard with their shipping industry investments?
Reality is a stern mistress.
ft dot com > Companies > Transport >
Shipping
March 30, 2015 5:06 pm
Five-year itch in shipping and PE marriage
Robert Wright in New York
It should have been an ideal match. When banks, stung by the financial crisis and huge losses, stopped lavishing as much attention and money on shipping, owners found a new group of apparently more dashing suitors. Private equity firms, flush with cash and eager to take on the risks of highly volatile dry bulk and tanker shipping, suddenly looked alluring.
Five years into the process, the union between the mostly small, family-controlled, often Greek, shipowners and big, numbers-driven, usually American, private equity firms such as Oaktree and Blackstone has proved less happy than anticipated. The investors’ tactics have inadvertently helped to exacerbate the industry’s financial crisis. Shipowners’ informal ways of doing business have fit poorly with the precision that PE investors expect.
“The huge amount of private equity that came into the industry five years ago is scratching its head and saying maybe it wasn’t a great thing to do,” Martin van Tuijl, a senior vice-president of DVB Bank, a transport specialist, said recently at the annual Capital Link Shipping Forum.
It was also clear at the forum, one of New York’s biggest such gatherings, that many of the investments are worth far less than private equity paid for them and some shipping markets remained depressed. Neither side can currently afford a divorce.
Several private equity firms are now, like it or not, long-time shipping industry actors, Michael Parker, head of shipping for Citi Group, told the forum.
“Whether that’s because they’re stuck I don’t know,” he said. “But a number of them now are significant participants.”
…
Well, well:
‘Welcome to Housing Bubble 2.0
Written by The Tim on March 30th, 2015′
http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2015/03/30/welcome-to-housing-bubble-2-0/
I’m happy to see I’ve influenced your thinking Tim. Stick around here some more so I can help you with those rough edges.
more all-cash buyers, almost no zero-down buyers
Since home price increases aren’t being built on top of suicidal financing like last time, we’re not likely to see a dramatic burst when things finally slow down.
So he thinks that those all-cash buyers will just sit things out instead of stampeding towards the exits like a stock market crash? At least with mortgages the home owners can’t just liquidate. They need to find a new place to live. “Investors” do not.
I’ve called this the ‘it’s not 2000-pick your year’ excuse. Sure, house prices are up up UP! There are people camping out for pre-construction houses, multiple offers over asking, investors running wild. Shortages, man, shortages! But; there are not the exact circumstances of the pick your year.
The bubble is in the minds of the participants, and it couldn’t be more clear. All the proof you need is in the prices. It doesn’t matter how you get there.
If prices increased by double digits the previous few years in that area it is certainly a bubble regardless of their not being a match to other historical conditions or previous bubbles.
It doesn’t really matter why you are getting fat. If you refuse to step on the scale you are in denial.
I think I’ve shown how current prices are consistent with a cyclical top–Shiller’s data shows this clearly. However, the top is not consistent with the bubble peak NATIONALLY (in certain markets, prices ARE consistent with the bubble peak).
The question remains…what will be the triggering event to cause prices to fall?
Will it be a recession?
Will it be crazy financing leading to a lot of defaults and a new round of foreclosures?
Will it be overbuilding?
In prior cycles, it was usually overbuilding combined with a recession that led to prices falling.
The bubble years was marked by crazy finance, and combined with high prices and overbuilding, eventually collapsed under it’s own weight.
What will it be this time?
While I agree that prices are cyclically at a peak, I expect that we will need to see homebuilding ramp up considerably before we experience a significant decline in prices…I put that 2-3 years out.
Collapsing demand.
They say this quarters GDP is 0000. China is a big deal. Those leaving China with their loot are a big part of the bubble. I think that the timing on the US Housing Market crash is going to depend on how China’s situation effects us. Does anyone know?
“Does anyone know?”
Paging AlbuquerqueDan…
“Since home price increases aren’t being built on top of suicidal financing… we’re not likely to see a dramatic burst when things finally slow down.”
Isn’t that the same argument the China cheerleaders make?
“Since home price increases aren’t being built on top of suicidal financing…
If that were true it would be the same argument. With China due to four trillion dollars in foreign reserves very little external debt and savings rate around 40%, a low consumer debt, a low federal government debt, and its business debt being secured by producing assets, it is true.
Yeah but we’ve got falling prices across the US.
“it is true”
The bubble is in your mind.
It’s different in Canada too. Oh, and in Brazil.
Brazil is toast and as the year goes on expect more and more loan defaults and no to negative growth.
“If that were true it would be the same argument. With China due to four trillion dollars in foreign reserves very little external debt and savings rate around 40%, a low consumer debt, a low federal government debt, and its business debt being secured by producing assets, it is true.”
I don’t see what any of that has to do with the popping of China’s real estate bubble.
I never said China did not have a housing bubble and the bubble was going to deflate, what I said, and you can go back to last summer and look, was despite the slowdown in housing China would still grow around 7% for 2014 and 2015, 2014 is already history and I was right and 2015 shows no signs of proving me wrong.
You are already wrong about 2015. Last year was the peak of empty housing completion. Construction is now in decline. Not growing ever so slightly less, contraction.
How are the Chinese buying houses which are 40x income and saving 40% of their income…. oh and buying cars for the “masses” which are again multiples of income, all at the same time?
They are not buying houses 40 times their income.
We’ll have to give that one to Oxy.
“A 100- square-meter (1,076-square-foot) apartment today costs about 40 years’ annual income, according to SouFun and government data…”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-20/meet-chinas-housing-debt-slaves
House Price to Income Ratio - china Compared to Continent
http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Asia/china/price-gdp-per-cap
The Chinese Housing Market’s Outrageous Price-To-Income Ratio
http://seekingalpha.com/article/2830656-the-chinese-housing-markets-outrageous-price-to-income-ratio
The funniest thing about the global property guide link is that the 99x figure for China is for a “typical upscale house unit of 100 sq meters.” That’s a 1056 sq ft house.
I rather think it is not funny for one to give up the entire produce of their working life to claim temporary ownership of a 1,000 ft2 box. Or a 2,500 ft2 box. It is a tragedy.
Donkey tears of tragedy.
From the comments:
“Something else that’s different this time around is that the price to own has not diverged as much from rents. Rents have been growing at double digit rates in neighborhoods near downtown Seattle like Capitol Hill for a couple years now. During the last boom, home prices were about the same but I’d guess rents were 60-70% of what they are now.”
Doesn’t this scream out to anyone that we are in a much worse bubble than we were 10 (wow, has it been that long?) years ago?
Yes.
Doesn’t it scream that we have a shortage of supply?
If both rents AND homes prices are going up substantially faster than inflation or wages, doesn’t that seem to be evidence that there is not sufficient supply of any type of housing?
With inventory up 118% and many more tens of thousands of excess, empty and defaulted houses in Seattle, there is no shortage Rental_Fraud.
I don’t know for sure. What I do know is that I’ve started writing letters to “owners” of vacant houses in Portland. What I’m finding is that they are everywhere if you look closely, here in a supposedly low inventory, “everyone is moving there” city.
So we are on the same page:
I don’t care about the number of listings. That’s what a lot of people call “inventory”. I care about the overall vacancy rate in the market–the best indicator of supply of shelter vs. demand for it in my view.
What is the vacancy rate in Portland relative to history? On the low end? Or still relatively high?
My question as it relates to Portland (and Oregon generally): Did Oregon change back their foreclosure law? If I recall correctly, they passed a law that was pretty extreme, cutting down foreclosures by about 90% overnight (and thus slowing the process of “clearing” the market…has that been unwound at all?
We know what page you’re on Rental_Fraud.
Again, I don’t know nor do I care. I’m targeting vacant housing independent of the reason for the vacancy. If it’s tied up in foreclosure/short-sell-hell, I move on to the next one.
Much of what I’m finding has been owned for 15+ years. I’m here to solve problems at 40-50% of current ARV. Most won’t go for it. Some do. I’m in no hurry. I’m halfway through page 1 of 6 pages of properties I’ve found and most aren’t far from popular areas of the city…there’s a lot out there.
‘Real estate data company RealtyTrac says Boise is in better shape than most of the country when it comes to the difference between wages and home prices. RealtyTrac looked at wage growth and home price growth from 2012 to 2014 in the nation’s 184-largest metro areas. Nationally, price growth outpaced wage growth 13-to-one. RealtyTrac vice president Daren Blomquist says in Boise, it was closer to four-to-one.’
‘A report out last week from the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis showed Idaho had one of highest increases in personal income in the country from 2013 to 2014. Of course, Idaho has among the nation’s lowest wages. Blomquist says, while Idaho’s wage and home price gap is better than much of the country, it is not sustainable. If it continues to widen he says, the area will find itself inside another housing bubble. But he says he expects Boise’s price growth to level off soon.’
“That will mean those buyers who are in the market right now who maybe are having trouble finding a place to purchase, they don’t have to have that urgency to buy now,” he says. “They can wait a little bit until the time is right for them.”
‘Blomquist says some places, like coastal California, are already in a housing bubble. He says like the housing bubble before the Great Recession, it’s being driven by institutional investors. He doesn’t think big investors are buying much in Boise yet. He says in many California cities home prices have gone beyond the means of the average person.’
“One of the other things we looked at is affordability. ‘Are we seeing homes that are unaffordable in each market?’ And in Boise that is not the case yet,” he says.’
280K is about the average listing price in low wage, podunky, flyover Boise. While that might seem like a steal in California, I suspect that the average Boisite cannot afford such a price.
‘Barney Frank has a new autobiography out. So why has a critical revelation from Frank’s book, one that implicates the most powerful Democrat in the nation, been entirely expunged from the record? Nobody has focused on Frank’s allegation that Barack Obama refused to extract foreclosure relief from the nation’s largest banks, as a condition for their receipt of hundreds of billions of dollars in bailout money.’
CNBC had this stooge on giving financial advice. The bs is unbelievable.
These fools keep making excuse after excuse as to why nothing is ever their fault.
‘San Francisco is one of only three markets in the U.S. where the coming office supply is forecast to outpace tenant leasing this year and next, according to Reis Inc., a real estate research company. The others are Houston and Fort Worth in Texas, where developers added new offices amid growth in the energy industry, which is now being hurt by a plunge in oil prices.’
‘In San Francisco, about 2.1 million square feet will come to the market this year, the most since 2002, Reis data show.’
“There is just a lot of supply coming online in a short period of time,” said Ryan Severino, a senior economist at New York-based Reis. “It’s not going to be as easy for developers going forward as it was in the last four to five years, when you essentially could do no wrong because there were no new developments.”
‘Construction cranes dominate the skyline in the South of Market area, where crews are working on office towers as well as luxury condominiums and a new transit center.’
‘Over the past two years, more than 80 percent of new office demand was driven by technology companies, according to Colin Yasukochi, director of research and analysis for Northern California at CBRE. The share is almost twice that of the dot-com boom of the late 1990s, when the financial, legal and media industries were rapidly expanding as well, he said.’
“The office market in San Francisco is strong,” Yasukochi said. “One cautionary point to raise is how dependent this market is on the tech industry.” If demand diminishes, “there is no alternative as most non-tech companies have been reducing their office footprints and getting more efficient,” he said.’
How many of these ‘tech’ firms (black market taxi cabs are tech?) would exist if there weren’t trillions of central bank phoney bucks floating around the world? Similarly:
‘Douglas Blackburn has been crawling in and out of the coal mines of Central Appalachia since he was a boy accompanying his father and grandfather some 50 years ago. The only time that Blackburn, now a coal industry consultant, remembers things being this bad was in the 1990s. Back then, he estimates, almost 40 percent of the region’s mines went bankrupt. “It’s a similar situation,” said Blackburn, who owns Blackacre LLC, a Richmond, Virginia-based consulting firm.’
‘To make matters worse, there’s little chance of a quick rebound in prices. That’s because idling a mine to cut output and stem losses isn’t an option for many companies. The cost of doing so — even on a temporary basis — has become so prohibitive that it can put a miner out of business fast, Blackburn and other industry analysts say.’
‘So companies keep pulling coal out of the ground, opting to take a small, steady loss rather than one big writedown, in the hope that prices will bounce back. That, of course, is only adding to the supply glut in the U.S., the world’s second-biggest producer, and driving prices down further. It’s become, in essence, a trap for miners.’
‘Temporarily closing an operation doesn’t provide much relief, Seth Schwartz, president of Energy Ventures Analysis Inc., an Arlington, Virginia-based energy industry consultant, said March 2 by phone. Equipment has to be maintained and workers have to make sure the roof doesn’t cave in, the mine is ventilated and that water is pumped out, he said.’
‘It’s also difficult to obtain government permits to restart idled operations, said Blackburn. The companies have to keep making interest payments on their debt to avoid bankruptcy, so even if they’re selling at a loss, they can get some cash, he said.’
“You have this really perverse situation where they keep producing,” James Stevenson, director of North American thermal coal at IHS Inc. in Houston, said in a telephone interview. “You’re just shoveling coal into this market that’s oversupplied.”
It should be pointed out that really low borrowing costs exasperate this glut. When you start creating imbalances, you never know how it’s going to get squeezed out. But it will happen.
“To make matters worse, there’s little chance of a quick rebound in prices.”
But nevertheless …
“… companies keep pulling coal out of the ground, opting to take a small, steady loss rather than one big writedown, in the hope that prices will bounce back.”
But prices won’t bounce back because …
“’You’re just shoveling coal into this market that’s oversupplied.’”
Q. “So, tell me, how did you go bankrupt?”
A. “First slowly, and then suddenly.”
And when you go bankrupt you take a lot of the economy out with you. And if the economy that you take out is the entire economy of a town or region then you take out the entire town or region (see Bodie).
And then there’s all the borrowed money that is involved that also gets “taken out”, gets to go poof. When somebody is on the wrong end of this money that goes poof then that person’s money also gets taken out.
So there is a lesson here somewhere and part of this lesson involves making sure that the money that is destined - DESTINED - to be taken out doesn’t belong to you.
‘The Salvation Army has offered stranded workers a one-way ticket back home. But many job seekers seem unwilling to leave—at least not until they can make a success out of their sacrificial move to a place with six months of winter, the worst traffic they’ve ever seen, and a disgruntled, if not miserable, populace.’
“You just have to cowboy up and expect things to get better,” said Terry Ray Cover, a 56-year-old farmer and jack-of-all-trades who came from southeast Iowa on a Greyhound bus in November. He’d heard North Dakota was raining jobs. “They don’t tell you it’s all a lie,” he said, sipping coffee in the Salvation Army on a frigid day in early March. “Places advertise jobs and then tell you they’re not hiring.”
He’d heard North Dakota was raining jobs.
Well, that was the common wisdom, especially in the news. I recall stories of burger flippers making $20/hr.
“They don’t tell you it’s all a lie,”
They sure don’t. Who woulda thunk?
The shame about bubble jobs being lost is that they were ever created in the first place. Thank you Bernanke.
It should be pointed out that really low borrowing costs exasperate this glut.
Interesting point, Ben—I hadn’t thought about in in quite that way.
I just can’t decide whether I completely buy it yet. Reduced borrowing costs helps marginal operations (that otherwise would go BK) continue to muddle along, producing a glut. However, if those marginal operations went BK, wouldn’t their mines be purchased by a stronger company, which would still want the mine to cover its acquisition and maintenance costs.
It seems to me that the mine would be producing in either case. Perhaps the real distortion occurs when new mines are being developed. If so, the distortions occurred primarily during the past six years, and will continue to be felt for a LONG time.
It sounds like “coal mining” and “fracking” are pretty much interchangeable in that article.
re coal: no sympathy here. The only good place for dirty coal is in the ground, where it belongs. The best thing that could happen for W Va and the Appalachian states is to find a new industry to create jobs.
Yes, the liberal solution to everything everyone is going to write code and work at green industries but the jobs never materialize, just ask Spain.
LOL. What, you’re a coal tout, too?
I took this pic on Sunday at about elevation 13,000′ in Rocky Mountain National Park looking east toward Loveland and Longmont
http://www.picpaste.com/IMG_20150329_134732-HJBxtq2D.jpg
If you like your brown cloud, you can keep your brown cloud
Awesome shot g.s.!
Why not, Dan? Pittsburgh had to diversify when the steel refineries went down. I agree with WPA. I’m tired of coal miners saying “this is all we know how to do.” Yes, adjusting to something new isn’t easy, but this has been going on for generations.
I took this pic on Sunday at about elevation 13,000′ in Rocky Mountain National Park looking east toward Loveland and Longmont
You don’t even have to be there to see it. Just driving north on I-25 you can see the brown cloud hanging over the Ft. Collins/Loveland/Greeley area. I remember when there hardly was one. And from I-25 it actually looks brown.
black market taxi cabs are tech?
We no longer think of tangibles like computer hardware as “tech”, even though they are what makes services like Uber possible. Online Netflix and other streaming services wouldn’t be possible without high speed networks, but no one thinks of routers or switches as “sexy”.
We swoon over the “Cloud” while it is advances in Operating System technology that make it possible. Everyone has heard of the Cloud, yet few have ever heard of OpenStack or VMWare or Zones.
Another day, another 2% down in crude prices (yawn…).
A wide range of gasoline prices in Longmont:
http://www.coloradogasprices.com/Longmont/index.aspx
Under $2.90 last night at Costco; the place was a parking lot, as CA drivers go into a feeding frenzy every time prices fall under $3/gal.
How many of these ‘tech’ firms (black market taxi cabs are tech?) would exist if there weren’t trillions of central bank phoney bucks floating around the world?
Not many. “Tech” is so attractive to get rich quick schemes with such a low barrier to entry.
‘If demand diminishes, “there is no alternative”
Well, don’t get caught with your pants down Colin.
I remember visiting my cousin who lived in the Chicago Loop in 1999, as the NASDAQ was approaching its bubble high. She and her husband loved ordering stuff from some “new economy” grocery delivery dot com, and remarked how they could have a $0.50 candy bar delivered in ten minutes with no delivery charge.
Can’t remember the name of the company or if they aired a commercial during the Super Bowl, LOLZ.
Drones will drop Cheetos directly into your mouth!
Meet the new black…
http://picpaste.com/pics/bd8d11f7480695012fe34fe22bfe0807.1427822371.jpg
I follow Jeb Bush on Facebook and today he’s plugging this on my news feed:
https://righttorisepac.org/stand-with-israel-2/
Soon we’ll see Jeb feigning a prayer at the Western Wall.
Is the stock market too risky of a place to park new money right now?
a fool and his money are soon parted!
the people who made the easy money were the ones who had inside information as to what the outcome would be.
They picked up the crumbs in 2008 and are now selling those same stocks back to retail who sold them in the panic.
Social media is the new pets.com
Former Astronauts & NASA Employees Letter on Global Warming
by Wynne Parry | April 12, 2012 10:02am ET
A NASA spokesman confirmed that the agency received the letter on Tuesday (April 11). [Read the full story about the letter]
March 28, 2012
The Honorable Charles Bolden, Jr.
NASA Administrator
NASA Headquarters
Washington, D.C. 20546-0001
Dear Charlie,
We, the undersigned, respectfully request that NASA and the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) refrain from including unproven remarks in public releases and websites. We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated, especially when considering thousands of years of empirical data. With hundreds of well-known climate scientists and tens of thousands of other scientists publicly declaring their disbelief in the catastrophic forecasts, coming particularly from the GISS leadership, it is clear that the science is NOT settled.
The unbridled advocacy of CO2 being the major cause of climate change is unbecoming of NASA’s history of making an objective assessment of all available scientific data prior to making decisions or public statements.
As former NASA employees, we feel that NASA’s advocacy of an extreme position, prior to a thorough study of the possible overwhelming impact of natural climate drivers is inappropriate. We request that NASA refrain from including unproven and unsupported remarks in its future releases and websites on this subject. At risk is damage to the exemplary reputation of NASA, NASA’s current or former scientists and employees, and even the reputation of science itself.
For additional information regarding the science behind our concern, we recommend that you contact Harrison Schmitt or Walter Cunningham, or others they can recommend to you.
Thank you for considering this request.
Sincerely,
(Attached signatures)
CC: Mr. John Grunsfeld, Associate Administrator for Science
CC: Ass Mr. Chris Scolese, Director, Goddard Space Flight Center
Ref: Letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden, dated 3-26-12, regarding a request for NASA to refrain from making unsubstantiated claims that human produced CO2 is having a catastrophic impact on climate change.
http://www.livescience.com/19643-nasa-astronauts-letter-global-warming.html
It’s gonna be 80F degrees today here in Region VIII on the last day of March
Warmists gonna warm
If you knew what ‘CC’ meant in an email, you wouldn’t be so impressed with that letter from the NASA janitors.
The NASA janitors can predict the climate better than Michael Mann and Al Gore.
“letter from the NASA janitors.”
Ref: Letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden, dated 3-26-12, regarding a request for NASA to refrain from making unsubstantiated claims that human produced CO2 is having a catastrophic impact on climate change.
/s/ Jack Barneburg, Jack – JSC, Space Shuttle Structures, Engineering Directorate, 34 years
/s/ Larry Bell – JSC, Mgr. Crew Systems Div., Engineering Directorate, 32 years
/s/ Dr. Donald Bogard – JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 41 years
/s/ Jerry C. Bostick – JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 23 years
/s/ Dr. Phillip K. Chapman – JSC, Scientist – astronaut, 5 years
/s/ Michael F. Collins, JSC, Chief, Flight Design and Dynamics Division, MOD, 41 years
/s/ Dr. Kenneth Cox – JSC, Chief Flight Dynamics Div., Engr. Directorate, 40 years
/s/ Walter Cunningham – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 7, 8 years
/s/ Dr. Donald M. Curry – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Leading Edge, Thermal Protection Sys., Engr. Dir., 44 years
/s/ Leroy Day – Hdq. Deputy Director, Space Shuttle Program, 19 years
/s/ Dr. Henry P. Decell, Jr. – JSC, Chief, Theory & Analysis Office, 5 years
/s/Charles F. Deiterich – JSC, Mgr., Flight Operations Integration, MOD, 30 years
/s/ Dr. Harold Doiron – JSC, Chairman, Shuttle Pogo Prevention Panel, 16 years
/s/ Charles Duke – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 16, 10 years
/s/ Anita Gale
/s/ Grace Germany – JSC, Program Analyst, 35 years
/s/ Ed Gibson – JSC, Astronaut Skylab 4, 14 years
/s/ Richard Gordon – JSC, Astronaut, Gemini Xi, Apollo 12, 9 years
/s/ Gerald C. Griffin – JSC, Apollo Flight Director, and Director of Johnson Space Center, 22 years
/s/ Thomas M. Grubbs – JSC, Chief, Aircraft Maintenance and Engineering Branch, 31 years
/s/ Thomas J. Harmon
/s/ David W. Heath – JSC, Reentry Specialist, MOD, 30 years
/s/ Miguel A. Hernandez, Jr. – JSC, Flight crew training and operations, 3 years
/s/ James R. Roundtree – JSC Branch Chief, 26 years
/s/ Enoch Jones – JSC, Mgr. SE&I, Shuttle Program Office, 26 years
/s/ Dr. Joseph Kerwin – JSC, Astronaut, Skylab 2, Director of Space and Life Sciences, 22 years
/s/ Jack Knight – JSC, Chief, Advanced Operations and Development Division, MOD, 40 years
/s/ Dr. Christopher C. Kraft – JSC, Apollo Flight Director and Director of Johnson Space Center, 24 years
/s/ Paul C. Kramer – JSC, Ass.t for Planning Aeroscience and Flight Mechanics Div., Egr. Dir., 34 years
/s/ Alex (Skip) Larsen
/s/ Dr. Lubert Leger – JSC, Ass’t. Chief Materials Division, Engr. Directorate, 30 years
/s/ Dr. Humbolt C. Mandell – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Program Control and Advance Programs, 40 years
/s/ Donald K. McCutchen – JSC, Project Engineer – Space Shuttle and ISS Program Offices, 33 years
/s/ Thomas L. (Tom) Moser – Hdq. Dep. Assoc. Admin. & Director, Space Station Program, 28 years
/s/ Dr. George Mueller – Hdq., Assoc. Adm., Office of Space Flight, 6 years
/s/ Tom Ohesorge
/s/ James Peacock – JSC, Apollo and Shuttle Program Office, 21 years
/s/ Richard McFarland – JSC, Mgr. Motion Simulators, 28 years
/s/ Joseph E. Rogers – JSC, Chief, Structures and Dynamics Branch, Engr. Directorate,40 years
/s/ Bernard J. Rosenbaum – JSC, Chief Engineer, Propulsion and Power Division, Engr. Dir., 48 years
/s/ Dr. Harrison (Jack) Schmitt – JSC, Astronaut Apollo 17, 10 years
/s/ Gerard C. Shows – JSC, Asst. Manager, Quality Assurance, 30 years
/s/ Kenneth Suit – JSC, Ass’t Mgr., Systems Integration, Space Shuttle, 37 years
/s/ Robert F. Thompson – JSC, Program Manager, Space Shuttle, 44 years/s/ Frank Van Renesselaer – Hdq., Mgr. Shuttle Solid Rocket Boosters, 15 years
/s/ Dr. James Visentine – JSC Materials Branch, Engineering Directorate, 30 years
/s/ Manfred (Dutch) von Ehrenfried – JSC, Flight Controller; Mercury, Gemini & Apollo, MOD, 10 years
… and not one of the signers are climatologists or atmospheric physicists. None of them have professional qualifications in the climate sciences. Not impressed.
But they AGREE with the deniers! thats all the qualifications they need.
gulp gulp gulp gulp
So that’s about…46, if you count the janitors, and the astronut who thinks he’s found Noah’s Ark somewhere in Turkey. NASA currently has about 18,000 employees. Want to try some math?
Suggested research: Scientists named Steve.
“18,000″
Make that 18,001 if you include the antisocial cheerleader.
I wonder how many of these guys care more about NASA being fully funded in the next budget than they do about global warming? Critizing global warming theory is job security for them.
“Critizing global warming theory is job security for them.”
Former Astronauts & NASA Employees Letter on Global Warming
by Wynne Parry | April 12, 2012 10:02am ET
A NASA spokesman confirmed that the agency received the letter on Tuesday (April 11).
It’s funny how not one of them can be called an environmental scientist.
“NASA currently has about 18,000 employees. Want to try some math?”
President’s 2013 budget requests 6% increase for climate and global change research
Posted on February 14, 2012 by Rick Piltz
Although the USGCRP budget is spread across 10 agencies (with additional related activities in the Depts of Defense and State and the US Agency for International Development), more than 90% of the USGCRP total is concentrated in just four agencies:
NASA – $1.469 billion FY2013 request
Dept. of Commerce – $342 million, almost all of which is in NOAA
National Science Foundation – $333 million
Dept of Energy – $230 million
http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/…/ - 83k -
Wow, NASA has a budget. Whodathunk? But I bet it ‘proves’ everything, right?
Yes because science is a vote and you personally know the views of all 18,000 workers and can confirm they did not sign because they believe in CAGW and not because they did not get a chance or were afraid of political retribution.
More sky is falling nonsense from the CAGW crowd, more likely the increased co2 in the atmosphere has helped yields:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/03/30/eyeroller-uw-madison-says-weather-er-climate-change-is-affecting-soybean-yields-amid-record-high-yields/
“afraid of political retribution”
Someone should let them know how well the fossil fuel industry pays their hired scientific shills. But since all signers are former employees of NASA, and hence beyond most political retribution, they may already know that. Heck, they may already be working for them!
We were talking about the 18,000 people at NASA, It was your side that was trying to convince us that anyone that did not sign was a believer. Total garbage, in the end they all work for Obama as head the executive branch and they are well aware of his position on AGW.
“No bucks, no Buck Rogers”.
One would think that an entity that put men on the moon could find a more creative reason than just stoking fears over man made global warming to justify subsidizing it’s dwindling tax payer funded revenue streams.
Sad that NASA never did make those Mars space colonies a reality.
Even more disappointing is that this once dynamic entity with futuristic ideals has become nothing more than a politically correct lobbying machine that politicians now use as a conduit to bring pork home to their well connected friends who live in their districts.
But they held the same opinion under Bush.
“Bush”
You won’t know what their opinions are until after they retire.
46 out of how many retired NASA employees?
Global warming data FAKED by government to fit climate change fictions
Monday, June 23, 2014
by Mike Adams,
Now, in what might be the largest scientific fraud ever uncovered, NASA and the NOAA have been caught red-handed altering historical temperature data to produce a “climate change narrative” that defies reality. This finding, originally documented on the Real Science website, is detailed here.
We now know that historical temperature data for the continental United States were deliberately altered by NASA and NOAA scientists in a politically-motivated attempt to rewrite history and claim global warming is causing U.S. temperatures to trend upward. The data actually show that we are in a cooling trend, not a warming trend (see charts below).
Here’s the proof of the climate change fraud
Here’s the chart of U.S. temperatures published by NASA in 1999. It shows the highest temperatures actually occurred in the 1930’s, followed by a cooling trend ramping downward to the year 2000:
The authenticity of this chart is not in question. It is published by James Hansen on NASA’s website. (2) On that page, Hansen even wrote, “Empirical evidence does not lend much support to the notion that climate is headed precipitately toward more extreme heat and drought.”
After the Obama administration took office, however, and started pushing the global warming narrative for political purposes, NASA was directed to alter its historical data in order to reverse the cooling trend and show a warming trend instead. This was accomplished using climate-modeling computers that simply fabricated the data the researchers wished to see instead of what was actually happening in the real world.
Using the exact same data found in the chart shown above (with a few years of additional data after 2000), NASA managed to misleadingly distort the chart to depict the appearance of global warming:
The authenticity of this chart is also not in question. It can be found right now on NASA’s servers. (4)
This new, altered chart shows that historical data — especially the severe heat and droughts experienced in the 1930’s — are now systematically suppressed to make them appear cooler than they really were. At the same time, temperature data from the 1970’s to 2010 are strongly exaggerated to make them appear warmer than they really were.
This is a clear case of scientific fraud being carried out on a grand scale in order to deceive the entire world about global warming.
EPA data also confirm the global warming hoax
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/045695_global_warming_fabricated_data_scientific_fraud.html##ixzz3VzEv8G1J
“We have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.”
Steven Schneider
National Center for Atmospheric Research (NOAA) climate researcher and global warming action promoter
Of course then Steven became a “former” employee of NOAA.
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
Jonathan Gruber was right about you guys.
Published by on 21 Jul 2010
Comment on Dr. Stephen Schneider
Climatologist Dr. Stephen Schneider died this week. Although he was one of the leading promoters of climate change fears (in the 1970s he warned against global cooling[1], more recently against global warming), Schneider could also be remarkably candid about what was going on behind the scenes of what is supposed to be a “settled” science.
He is famous for noting that climate scientists will exaggerate if the truth isn’t “scary” enough:
Where did we get thousands of years of empirical data?
From our computer model.
Is fractional reserve lending ridiculous?
By Blurtman Follow Mon, 30 Mar 2015, 7:46pm PDT
You have $2,000 in your checking account, you write a check for $20,000, you re in big trouble.
The Bank of America writes a check that it can only back with 10% of the check’s amount, and no problema.
Should criminal organizations be able to create money?
Is fractional reserve lending a negative contributor to economic stability?
You could be mistaken about there being a 10% reserve requirement. It was so way back in the day, but now it’s more of a fictional reserve system.
‘China has admitted that its economy is hurting with the country’s growth rate experiencing a rough slowdown that significantly needs a major intervention. According to China’s top banker, Zhou Xiaochan, the country’s economy has tumbled ‘a bit too much’ as he urged the government to take drastic measures to arrest the slowing growth rate.’
‘Zhou said China has still room to set the economy in order, such as adopting ‘quantitative measures’ and setting interest rates.’
‘Zhou said China’s economic slowdown has affected the performance of various financial sectors such as banking, housing, and the corporate scene. Reports said corporations are neck-deep in debt and are seeing pathetic profit margins. Banks are swamped with debts, too, while the housing market is experiencing a slowdown. Zhou, who spoke before regional leaders at the Boao Forum for Asia, admitted that the country’s economy has not been growing this slowly since the 1990s.’
‘As it acknowledged that the slowdown was rough, China assured the world that the situation is under control. Despite the financial experts’ calls for China to issue intervening measures, Chinese officials have opted to ‘monitor deflation’. The experts said that the problem with deflation is that China is strapped for cash and that the banking system is laden with debt.The people need cash in order to pay interest on their debt.’
‘Another thing reportedly hurting the economy was President Xi Jinping’s anti-corruption campaign. Zhou said the campaign has driven away the rich who are scared to spend that much amount of money. Add to this, rich government officials and businessmen accused of corruption have been arrested and thrown in jail. Zhou said these arrests have disrupted the way businesses are being run in China.’
So Dan, do you want the feathers on or off?
https://rachelhopecleves.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/images.jpeg
“The experts said that the problem with deflation is that China is strapped for cash and that the banking system is laden with debt.The people need cash in order to pay interest on their debt.”
My favorite part:
“The people need cash in order to pay interest on their debt.”
And if there is any cash left over after they pay the interest on their debt then they can use it for food or for some other wasteful purpose.
And when you are done with Ben’s post you can read this little nugget on China Adan;
At 282 percent of GDP, according to the McKinsey Global Institute, China’s total debt now exceeds America’s 269 percent and Germany’s 258 percent. Even more worrying: If the credit buildup continues at its current pace, that ratio will explode to 400 percent by 2018.
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-30/debt-could-derail-china-s-global-ambitions
Thanks scdave your post makes my point:
“However, MGI calculates that China’s government has the capacity to bail out the financial sector should a property-related debt crisis develop. The challenge will be to contain future debt increases and reduce the risks of such a crisis, without putting the brakes on economic growth.”
SCdave, what many on this board do not seem to understand, just like in a personal bankruptcy there is a difference between secured and unsecured debt, there is a difference between going deep into debt to create superb infrastructure and state of the art factories and our debt which was largely the result of income transfer payments. The reason why China is still growing at 7% is because of how it spent its money. Taking it back to a personal bankruptcy or even a corporate liquidation, if you are a secured creditor and the value of the secured asset exceeds the debt owed, you are going to sleep well at night. However, if you are an unsecured creditor owed a large debt, you better have sleeping pills. That is the difference between the two countries, we almost have the same debt levels as China and have horrible infrastructure and old factories.
Also, it is one thing to be carrying a lot of debt when you are young and receiving large pay raises and having lots of debt when you are old and facing no wage growth or a reduced cash flow due to retirement. Once again China is the former and we are the latter.
Everything ever posted here makes your point if you twist the facts and squint hard.
I am not twisting the facts at all, I merely connected to a link on the article and read what Bloomberg did not want you to read and posted the language. Breakdown China’s debt and the vast majority of it belongs to SOEs, that can easily sell equity to replace the debt. And it is happening more and more, thus the debt can eliminated and the people not the state can end up owning the enterprise, it is a win/win ( I do hate that platitude).
“there is a difference between going deep into debt to create superb infrastructure and state of the art factories…”
That’s the first time I ever heard ghost cities called superb. And the “investments” that are being made now are really just payments on high interest loans, a huge number of which are probably secured with the same assets, which are worthless anyway.
“Breakdown China’s debt and the vast majority of it belongs to SOEs, that can easily sell equity to replace the debt.”
That’s the first time I ever heard that one. Everything I’ve read says it’s the SOE’s that are the problem, not the solution.
Everything I’ve read says it’s the SOE’s that are the problem, not the solution.
I said they were the problem. However, the solution is simple, turn them into private corporations and have people buy the equity to replace the debt by selling the bonds they own in the SOEs.
Twist this:
Don’t be the 6-foot-tall man about to drown in this market
Published: Mar 31, 2015 7:32 a.m. ET
Critical intelligence before the market opens
Bloomberg
By Shawn Langlois
Markets reporter
The blue chips have been a bit more volatile than usual this month. In fact, if we see triple-digit action today, it will mean the Dow has turned in a move in excess of 100 points 16 times in March. That would be the second most of any month in history, according to Ryan Detrick.
October 2008 had the most at 20.
There are no big moves brewing in premarket trading just yet, but this is the final day of the first quarter and there’s plenty on tap to shake up the markets. For starters, Tuesday is the deadline for a deal in the Iranian nuclear talks. That could fire up big moves in oil.
“Any deal which provokes the unwinding of oil-related sanctions — regardless if over a protracted period — will likely spur a bearish reaction, while the absence of a deal will likely encourage a knee-jerk short-term bounce,” commodity analyst Matt Smith said.
Down so far. Not that crude needs an excuse.
…
“superb infrastructure ”
Snerk…phbaaaaahahahahaah!
The banksters are running scared in the U.S. The bad mouthing of China is linked to the desire to prevent China from creating things like development banks that they do not control. With one interesting exception, China’s external debt is very, very, low overall about 6% of its GDP. Thus, Chinese corporate debt is a Chinese consumers’ assets. It will be very interesting to see what the stock market surge is going to do to corporate debt since a lot of them will probably sell stock to eliminate debt. But getting to the exception, a few years ago when China was trying to slow the housing bubble it cracked down on bank loans to developers, they turned to the international bond market for funds.
Sell stock to eliminate corporate debt?
Chinese Corporate Debt is a Chinese consumers’ assets?
I think my head just exploded.
Why it is what corporate America does all the time? The debt is owed to someone and I showed that it was not foreign debt, thus the debt is owed to the Chinese people. Sorry but it is not difficult to understand.
“..the debt is owed to the Chinese people.”
Who will get paid, party leaders, or the Chinese people? Well connected banks, or the average citizen who gave his life savings to some fly by night trust?
So let me understand the problem, China is slowing to around 7% growth due to its addressing of: (1) pollution problems (closing its most polluting plants (2) its corruption problems (3) allowing bankrupt companies to actually go bankrupt instead of using extend and pretend and giving them money.
These are bad things why? BTW, I like Costco chickens because they are fully plucked, cook correctly and cheap.
http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2015-03/31/content_19963960.htm
Excerpt from link that will post:
A Bank of China Ltd report has predicted China’s economy to stabilize in the second quarter of this year, and GDP growth to rise from around 7 percent in the first quarter to 7.2 percent in the second.
Zhou Jingtong, a senior economist with the bank’s Institute of International Finance, said in the report on Monday that while the economy continues to slow, “we are seeing a series of positive changes emerging from the recent economic moves, such as the rapid growth of private investment and strong profit growth in the equipment and high-tech manufacturing industries”.
The tertiary sector of the economy, also known as the service sector, is growing rapidly, making it a main channel for employment, Zhou said. In the first two months of this year, service industry production increased 7.4 percent.
Statistics show that every percentage point of GDP growth created 1.79 million jobs in 2014.
The report said consumption rose 11 percent in the first two months, up 20 basis points from the previous year, and its contribution to economic growth is expected to further increase in the first quarter.
During the same period, it also showed that private investment increased 14.7 percent year-on-year and new forms of businesses related to the Internet continue to expand at a high speed. Online sales of products and services increased 44.6 percent from a year earlier to 475.1 billion yuan ($76 billion).
Fixed-asset investment, meanwhile, slowed further in the first two months, among which the growth of real estate investment fell 8.9 percentage points from the previous year.
My other post do not post yet but this links to the external debt of China at 6% of its GDP, the U.S. owes people outside the country 98% of its GDP. The debt ratio will drop sharply in China when the bond owners convert their debt stakes into shares. This will happen due to the stock market surge and the expected issuance of stock by the companies to take advantage of the higher valuations:
http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html
Using America as an apology of why China is not in deep trouble is an interesting tactic for debate. There must be a term for that. Could it be “deflection”?
Actually the deflection is by the MSM that wants the population in the U.S. to think China is in big trouble when the U.S. is in big trouble. It is amazing how much they ignore stories in China about soaring wages, probably because they show how poorly the U.S. economy is performing and might cause American workers to question globalization and open borders. China does not give a sh#t about any country but itself and pursues an aggressive nationalistic economic policy and strictly limits immigration, I don’t want to live in China but do wish we would do the same.
So, you really believe that when they shut down a factory or mine or old power plant, it is to be a good world citizen?
LOL.
What the American press does write about wages in China is that it is impossible to obtain reliable data. How many articles can you write about that?
China is slowing to around 7% growth ??
Thats the ceiling dude…Not the floor…Thats the “best” you can hope for…
Crow sushi, Dan?
You will be eating crow about China.
Because they’ll sell it to us as chicken.
As long as you are willing to continuously scale down your growth forecast, you will never have to eat crow.
It does not seem to me China has their debt under control
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/chinas-monumental-ponzi-heres-how-it-unravels/
At the turn of the century credit market debt outstanding in the US was about $27 trillion, and we’ve not been slouches attempting to borrow our way to prosperity. Total credit market debt is now $59 trillion—-so America has been burying itself in debt at nearly a 7% annual rate.
But move over America! As the 21st century dawned, China had about $1 trillion of credit market debt outstanding, but after a blistering pace of “borrow and build” for 14 years it now carries nearly $25 trillion. But here’s the thing: this stupendous 25X growth of debt occurred in the context of an economic system designed and run by elderly party apparatchiks who had learned their economics from Mao’s Little Red Book!
That means there was no legitimate banking system in China—just giant state bureaus which were run by party operatives and a modus operandi of parceling out quotas for national credit growth from the top, and then water-falling them down a vast chain of command to the counties, townships and villages. There have never been any legitimate financial prices in China—all interest rates and FX rates have been pegged and regulated to the decimal point; nor has there ever been any honest accounting either—-loans have been perpetual options to extend and pretend.
And, needless to say, there is no system of financial discipline based on contract law. China’s GDP has grown by $10 trillion dollars during this century alone—that is, there has been a boom across the land that makes the California gold rush appear pastoral by comparison. Yet in all that frenzied prospecting there have been almost no mistakes, busted camps, empty pans or even personal bankruptcies. When something has occasionally gone wrong with an “investment” the prospectors have gathered in noisy crowds on the streets and pounded their pans for relief—-a courtesy that the regime has invariably granted.
So in two short decades, China has erected a monumental Ponzi economy that is economically rotten to the core. It has 1.5 billion tons of steel capacity, but “sell-through” demand of less than half that amount— that is, on-going demand for sheet steel to go into cars and appliances and rebar into replacement construction once the current pyramid building binge finally expires. The same is true for its cement industry, ship-building, solar and aluminum industries—to say nothing of 70 million empty luxury apartments and vast stretches of over-built highways, fast rail, airports, shopping mails and new cities.
In short, the flip-side of the China’s giant credit bubble is the most massive malinvesment of real economic resources—-labor, raw materials and capital goods—ever known. Effectively, the country-side pig sties have been piled high with copper inventories and the urban neighborhoods with glass, cement and rebar erections that can’t possibly earn an economic return, but all of which has become “collateral” for even more “loans” under the Chinese Ponzi.
‘China has admitted that its economy is hurting with the country’s growth rate experiencing a rough slowdown that significantly needs a major intervention.
Everyone run out and go buy a new iPhone 6 or something. If you can’t afford one the Bank of China will be happy to lend you the money.
Region VIII news
“The city of Denver is looking into installing at least two public toilets downtown as a way to curb complaints about public urination and defecation.”
http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/morning_call/2015/03/will-denver-approve-aplan-for-sidewalk-toilets.html
I used the bathroom at a Denver Burger King last weekend and there was dried blood on the floor and back of the door, LOLZ
I used the bathroom at a Denver Burger King last weekend and there was dried blood on the floor and back of the door, LOLZ
The thought of braving a toilet in a fast food restaurant sends shivers down my spine. But as the saying goes “when you gotta go, you gotta go”
Someone was doin’ the Humpty Dance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj9_yW8tZxs&list=RDcj9_yW8tZxs
Fastforward to 1:10
I saw some of you comment on this:
‘There was a story in The New York Times today that made you just stop and say, wait… what? There are, apparently, tens of thousands of homeowners in this country who — thanks to the mortgage meltdown and the ensuing foreclosure crisis — haven’t made a mortgage payment in more than five years.’
“People in states like Florida, New York and New Jersey — where lenders have to sue to evict you from your house if you’re delinquent on your mortgage — many of these cases, thousands of them, have gone on for so long that they’re up against the statute of limitations,” says Michael Corkery the the Times.’
But I picked up on this a while back. Reposting, again:
‘Jan 16, 2015‘
‘Investors including US mortgage giant Fannie Mae holding decade-old residential mortgage bonds are fretting over potentially huge losses on securities where delayed foreclosures could lead to complete write-offs on defaulted loans. Mortgage servicers, whose job is to ensure bondholders receive repayments on loans, have frequently failed to foreclose on delinquent debt in a timely manner, and therefore risk falling foul of legal deadlines which limit the time home-owners can be chased for payment.’
‘Fannie Mae’s general counsel held a conference call just before the Christmas holidays - all of its retained law firms were required to participate - to ask how the government-run mortgage agency could alleviate such losses, a person with knowledge of the call told IFR.’
“[Fannie Mae's] general counsel asked: ‘How bad is it?’” the person said, adding that one of the lawyers on the call answered: “We can’t even begin to tell you - there are so many loans.”
Will mass mortgage defaults matter if the Fed buried the related MBS on its balance sheet?
If they can’t run a simple report to find out who is delinquent on payments, there is something seriously wrong with the way these places are run.
So could the non-payer than put the house on the market, sell it free and clear, and pocket the cash?
Or will neighborhoods be full of properties where someone can live in them, but they can never be sold because of all the liens?
Got MERS?!!!
I’ve been fighting a strong urge to short the market recently. Risky, I know, but if you look at the 10yr chart for the S&P500, and then try to align that with reality as we know it… Um, no—something has to give.
I’m still waiting for a canary to die. I can afford to be wrong on the exact start date.
You would have thought the same in 1998, but it took Wall Street bulls a couple more years to get the memo. Cows are not among the most intelligent of mammals.
Right. Those who can think like them, but a few days ahead, can short.
Those who see things for what they are best wait in cash until the herd has already thundered over the cliff.
It’s two different skills.
Like they say, “don’t fight the Fed.”
The final last cry of empty pockets, debt donkeys and cross dressers.
http://eaglefordtexas.com/news/id/149349/u-s-may-skirt-oil-storage-crisis-as-drivers-hit-the-road/
As I said before the thought of inexperienced Asian drivers hitting congested streets in SUVs is kind of scary. China may have to do away with its one child policy just to replace the accident victims.
Luckily they have plenty of empty cities with no traffic.
They build cities over there like we build subdivisions over here. Virtually all the subdivisions eventually get filled and so will their cities.
Virtually all the subdivisions eventually get filled and so will their cities.
How? The one child policy guarantees that won’t happen. If anything, the opposite will happen in the coming decades as China grays even more and its population begins to decline.
As some have pointed out here, middle aged Chinese couples who already own a flat, will inherit 2 more flats from their parents when they pass away; and there won’t be any potential tenants or buyers for them.
They do not build cities like we build subdivisions.
When what they have under construction now is delivered they will have 150 million empty excess houses.
When what they have under construction now is delivered they will have 150 million empty excess houses.
Which could house 450 million people (a couple and their only child per flat). Where are all those people going to come from? Immigration?
This is what the UN is estimating will happen to China’s population:
2020: 1,387,792,000
2030: 1,393,076,000
2040: 1,360,906,000
2050: 1,295,604,000
2060: 1,211,538,000
2070: 1,125,903,000
2080: 1,048,132,000
2090: 984,547,000
2100: 941,042,000
It’s pretty much already flattened out and will stay flat before going into a steep decline. So who exactly is going to buy or rent all those flats?
As I understand it, there is a massive urbanization move in China…lots of people living in rural areas moving to Cities. Older homes are bulldozed, new homes are lived in.
Of course Rental_Fraud.
Now about those 25 million excess empty and defaulted houses in the US.
As I understand it, there is a massive urbanization move in China…lots of people living in rural areas moving to Cities. Older homes are bulldozed, new homes are lived in.
And these peasants, who will be working for Foxconn for $2/hr (if they can find work at all) will be able to afford to buy one of the surplus flats? Or will the Government buy them and let the unwashed live in them for virtually free (Holy Free Cheese, Batman).
And will 400-500 million people really move to the city?
“And will 400-500 million people really move to the city?”
That is the question. My understanding is that if the urbanization trend continues, the “ghost cities” won’t remain ghostly for very long. If that trend slows or stops, they will be very cool sets for post-apocalyptic movies.
Money was made doing the deals to build the empty cities. Everyone in the world helped pour money into the wasteful endeavors through higher commodity prices. The people who profited have no further interest in whether there is or will be an organic demand for 150 million empty high rise “houses”.
Biggest scam in history.
Goooooood Morning Chicago…..A reprise of yesterday’s missive on Chicago ILLANNOY.
As one HBB’er says from time to time - “This sucker could go down” - G. W. Bush………
You gotta live here to truly understand how bad it really is - the dirt on the streets after the Feb 1 snowstorm is just now emerging as the drifts melt away……Sorta like Chicago - pretty and clean for a while until the facade melts away to expose the dirt underneath.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/rahm-emanuel-reelection-chicago-mayor-20150327
Comment by Oddfellow
2015-03-29 14:06:37
“Where did I say he was a drug dealer?”
Prosecutor: Your Honor, I object to this witness. Improper foundation. I’m not aware of this person’s qualifications. I’d like to voir dire this witness as to the extent of his expertise
J: Granted. Mr. Trotter, you may proceed.
Q: Oddfellow, what’s your current profession?
A: I’m an out of work hairdresser.
Q: Out of work hairdresser? Now, in what way does that qualify you as an expert Swindler?
A: It doesn’t.
Q: In what way are you qualified?
A: Well, my father was a Realtor, his father was a Realtor, my mother’s father was a Realtor, my three brothers are Realtors, four uncles on my father’s side are Realtors–
Q: Your family is obviously qualified to swindle, but have you ever worked as a Realtor?
A: Yeah, at my father’s Century 21 office, yeah.
Q: As a Realtor? What did you do in your father’s Century 21 office?
A: Swindle, Deflect, Bamboozle
10 to 1 the old man was a drug dealer
Noun: welcher - someone who swindles you by not repaying a debt or wager
Make the $1,000.00 check payable to…
Ben Jones
PO Box 5914
Peoria, AZ 85385-5914
You’d be good at running a shakedown operation in one of our nation’s police-state townships that you cheer.
Why? Because you’re a natural for it, it suits your race-baiting badge-licking temperament, and you’d need those crooked judges to make your case.
Vinny Gambini: You’re acting like you’re nervous or something.
Oddfellow: Well, yeah. I am.
I’m nervous I’m going to miss your daily black-on-white crime report.
It’s getting late! W-w-where is it?
Did you say Yutes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVjbf-dHjW0 - 251k -
The yutes of Eglinton
Hope and Change
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/31/health/research/enterovirus-68-may-be-linked-to-paralysis-in-children-study-says.html?_r=0&referrer=
Forward
by sattkisson
on October 16, 2014
Link to Illegal Immigrant Children?
Enteroviruses commonly circulate in the U.S. during summer and fall. EV-D68 was first identified in California in 1962. Over the past thirty years, only small numbers were reported in the U.S.
The CDC hasn’t suggested reasons for the current uptick or its origin. Without that answer, some question whether the disease is being spread by the presence of tens of thousands of illegal immigrant children from Central America admitted to the U.S. in the past year.
The origin could be entirely unrelated.
However, a study published in Virology Journal, found EV-D68 among some of the 3,375 young, ill people tested in eight Latin American countries, including the Central American nations of El Salvador and Nicaragua, in 2013.
Though the U.S. government is keeping secret the locations of the illegal immigrant children, there are significant numbers of them in both cities in which the current outbreak was first identified, Kansas City, Missouri and Chicago, Illinois, according to local advocates and press reports.
sharylattkisson.com/cdc-7th-u-s-death-linked-to-polio-like-respiratory-virus/ - 70k -
man o man - I have been wandering around with a sinus thing and chest congestion for a couple of months - makes me wonder if our little brown friends south of the border brought this with ‘em here to the fair metropolis of Chicago ILLANNOY. Been bad enough that I have been to my doc - recent as two weeks ago and nothing beyond the ordinary. Symptoms you might ask? Stuffed sinuses - gobs of gob and occassional burning in my bronchi - hmmmm…..
Monday, March 30, 2015
The Fed Has Failed the Nation, in One Chart
There is only one way to end the financial tyranny of the Federal Reserve–abolish it, and put an end to the predatory pathologies of its policies.
The Federal Reserve has failed not just the nation and the U.S. economy, but more importantly, the American people that it supposedly serves. It has also failed the world, by showing other central banks that they can reward private banks and the top .01% with absolute impunity.
The Fed’s free money for financiers enriched the top layer of corporate management and the top 1% who own most of the nation’s equities. You can read the details here: Factset Buyback Quarterly.
The other group of financiers with access to the Fed’s free money for financiers has been private equity. So did the private equity multi-millionaires borrow the Fed’s largesse to build new plant and hire new employees? Did they invest the borrowed billions in productive startups?
No–they used the money to buy existing companies and bleed them dry. The Glory Days of Private Equity Are Over (Via Mark G.):
There you have it: the Fed has lowered productivity and GDP and stripmined savers, widows and orphans to further enrich the obscenely wealthy. Recall this from my entry last week, Will Cash Always Be Trash, Or Will It One Day Be King?
Between 2009 and 2012, the first years of the economic recovery, the top 1% saw their incomes climb 31.4% — or, 95% of the total gain — while the bottom 99% saw growth of 0.4%.
charleshughsmith.blogspot.com/…/03/the-fed-has-failed-nation-in-one-chart.html - 181k -
No–they used the money to buy existing companies and bleed them dry.
Mitt Romney, is that you?
Just ask Harry Reid.
Comment by phony scandals
2015-03-31 08:46:51
The Fed Has Failed the Nation, in One Chart
oftwominds.com/blogmar15/fed-failed3-15.html
I just bookmarked Ben Bernanke’s new blog:
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/ben-bernanke/posts/2015/03/31-why-interest-rates-low-secular-stagnation
In his posting today, Mr. Bernanke explains why he doesn’t agree with Larry Summers’ view that the U.S. is in a state of “secular stagnation.” Bernanke takes “issue with Larry’s claim that we have never seen full employment during the past several decades without the presence of a financial bubble.”
What the bubble-o-philes keep ignoring is the aftermath of the bubbles.
Bubbles are driven by delusions that value exists where it doesn’t. Tulip bulbs to a couple of guys and a server making vaporware. Both are briefly highly valued, but eventually reality sets in when people try to convert the perception of value into currency.
I just got an email advertising what I think is this listing:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/9221-Sierra-Mar-Dr-Los-Angeles-CA-90069/20534820_zpid/
The ad says:
‘Located in the coveted “Bird Streets” area above Sunset Boulevard. Just off Doheny and minutes from the action on the Sunset Strip. This is your chance to tailor a home to your individual taste and specific needs and watch your investment grow. 3 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms upstairs with living space downstairs, including an office and a bonus studio. Great patio deck off the living room with an incredible view.
Offered at $2,995,000′
Looking at the price history on zillow:
02/22/93 Sold $463,000
07/19/95 Sold $580,000+25.3%
07/21/14 Listed for sale $3,800,000+555%
09/04/14 Price change $3,299,999-13.2%
09/30/14 Price change $2,899,999-12.1%
11/17/14 Pending sale $2,899,999
New broker:
03/13/15 Price change $2,995,000+3.3%
3 mill for a house that will have rationed tap water this summer. I guess if you can actually afford it you’ll be able to afford to flush the toilets with Perrier.
I enjoy paying for overvalued assets thx to currency debasement.
I have a 10 year old Chevy truck. Interested Poet?
no I have a 1984 classic that runs great.
Is it time to wheel out someone from the fed this week?
US: Oil Sinks Through $48 Floor
http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/future/crude%20oil%20-%20electronic
“US Corporate Profits Set For Second Straight Quarterly Fall”
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/15223fa4-c354-11e4-8fa9-00144feab7de.html
2 former federal agents charged with stealing Bitcoin during Silk Road probe
By Evan Perez, CNN Justice Reporter
Updated 5:20 PM ET, Mon March 30, 2015
Washington (CNN)The federal government became owners of one of the biggest troves of Bitcoin, thanks to seizing millions of dollars in the digital currency from criminals associated with the online black market Silk Road.
Two federal agents who helped lead one of several investigations in the case allegedly decided they wanted some of the money for themselves, according to a new federal court documents.
The two now-former agents from the Drug Enforcement Administration and the U.S. Secret Service are charged with wire fraud, money laundering and other offenses for allegedly stealing Bitcoin during the federal investigation of Silk Road, an underground illicit black market federal prosecutors shut down in 2013.
The charges against the agents could end up causing complications for the government’s case against Ross Ulbricht, also known as “Dread Pirate Roberts”, the Silk Road founder. Ulbricht was found guilty last year of aiding drug trafficking with his site. He is awaiting sentencing. As a result of the case against Ulbricht and others, the federal government seized bitcoin that it said at the time was valued at more than $33 million.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/30/politics/federal-agents-charged-with-stealing-bitcoin/ - 231k -
Crater…………………… Crater Taters For Debt Donkeys.
which FED member is gonna create the next short covering rally?
Time to buy back some more shares to boost eps cause business is way down again this quarter?
100 students refuse to pay their loans
By Katie Lobosco
CNNMoney (New York) March 31, 2015: 4:55 PM ET
Dawn Thompson racked up $155,000 in student loans for a Corinthian College degree that proved worthless. Now she refuses to pay it off.
It’s a risky move, but she’s not alone. More than 100 of the now-defunct for-profit school’s students are taking the same stand. And the government is willing to hear them out.
The “debt strikers” are asking the federal government to forgive their loans because they were ripped off by the school.
On Tuesday, 14 of the strikers were scheduled to meet with reps from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the Department of Education, which has the power to cancel the loans. Officials wouldn’t say what the agenda was for the meeting, and it’s not uncommon for the CFPB to meet with students struggling to pay off loans.
This is the first time the “debt strikers” have been acknowledged by the government.
“I believe every student from Corinthian College who was lied to should have their loans forgiven so they can to go a real school and get a real degree,” she told CNNMoney before Tuesday’s meeting.
Thompson, 49, earned a bachelor’s degree in paralegal studies from one of Corinthian’s online schools, Everest, in 2011. As a single mom of two young kids at the time, she enrolled at the school mostly for the convenience. She could log in online after work and still be home with her children.
But the wealth of job opportunities the school touted never transpired. So Thompson returned to the school to pursue a master’s in business administration, trying to make herself more marketable.
But the CFPB started investigating the for-profit school in 2012, so Thompson decided it wasn’t worth the money and dropped out. She now works as a bank teller.
Her story is similar to those of other Corinthian students. The school is being sued by the Feds for an alleged predatory lending scheme, preying on low-income students, and falsely inflating job placement numbers. It was largely sold off for parts last fall.
Related: If I marry you, do I marry your student loans too?
The government has already ordered about $480 million in debt relief for Corinthian students thanks to a deal it made with a company that’s acquiring some Corinthian campuses. The lawsuit is ongoing, and students could see even more debt relief.
For now, Thompson doesn’t know if she’s eligible for any relief under that deal.
Of her $155,000 in debt, Thompson owes about $120,000 in federal loans. Payments aren’t due yet on those, but they are on the $35,000 she has in private loans.
“I’m constantly worrying about being homeless, it’s always on my mind,” Thompson said.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/31/pf/college/student-debt-strike-corinthian/index.html?iid=Lead
“Related: If I marry you, do I marry your student loans too?”
Lots of husbands end up paying their wife’s student loans once the “bun is in the oven.” It’s one of those unspoken benefits the non-career, liberal arts female enjoys.
More positive economic news….
Pismo Beach, CA List Prices Plummet 13% YoY; Foreclosures Drive Inventory Up
http://www.zillow.com/pismo-beach-ca/home-values/