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More panic selling in China come Monday?
There’s nothing on Marketwatch about China, at least no front page headline. How can a crash be happening but it isn’t getting covered. I think you are making it all up.
It is not impacting other markets it is barely having an impact on Hong Kong markets. The Chinese government actually wanted 2/3 of the decline and now it is working to get the market back to the 4500 level.
The markets care more about Greece. Of course, even the Shanghai market was negatively impacted by the Greece story. The EU is not an insignificant trading partner of China.
This is not the first time in history that a combination of media optics and investor myopia have led to misplaced focus.
So far the decline in the Shanghai exchange has only led to more economic activity in China, if it had a negative impact on Chinese spending the world would take notice. But the Chinese that save 30 to 50% of their incomes depending on the measure used can easily absorb these losses without reducing spending. They are not FB like Americans.
“…more economic activity…”
By that I assume you mean more debt-funded stimulus?
“So far the decline in the Shanghai exchange has only led to more economic activity in China”
The only way that sentence makes sense as they are lowering lending costs….to have pile on more debt on business, consumers and local governments (as PB said).
Marketwatch, like all the oligarch-owned media, does not want to spook the retail invester herd that they are trying to lure into the Wall Street-Federal Reserve’s rigged casino with their “Everything is awesome!” meme. Spotlighting the meltdown in China’s equity bubble might cause the more heads-up members of the herd to exit the pump & dump markets, setting off a stampede for the exits. The markets probably can’t be allowed to sell off until Goldman Sachs has gone massively short and signaled its Fed puppets to jack up interest rates or otherwise tank the Ponzi. That’s my theory, anyway. By contrast, the UK’s Telegraph has done some solid reporting on the implications of China’s imploding bubble.
This makes no sense. They are pimping grexit fears all over the front page.
“There’s nothing on Marketwatch about China, at least no front page headline. How can a crash be happening but it isn’t getting covered.”
You bring to mind a famous logical fallacy, related to the proposition that ‘all crows are black.’ Some mistakenly assume that observing a non-crow which is not black strengthens the evidence that all crows are black. Analogously, you seem to believe that observing one financial media outlook not covering the China crash is evidence that the Chinese stock market is healthy; again wrong!
It certainly could be wrong but it is not a logical fallacy. It is some bit of evidence that all this crowing over crow here is overblown. A “crash” that gets little coverage from one of the leading financial websites in the world and that doesn’t seem to be affecting other markets?
It is a fallacy, and there is a famous article (ironically featuring crows, of all creatures) to demonstrate it.
Opinionated Lessons in Statistics: #2 Bayes
21:38
Raven paradox
P.S. Let’s agree a number of us HBB posters have literally destroyed the fallacious argument in the case of the Chinese stock market crash with direct evidence from myriad recent articles posted here which document it.
If Entertainment Tonight doesn’t cover it, it obviously can’t be happening.
Australian stocks fall steeply on Greek worries, China share crash
By business reporter Michael Janda
Updated Fri at 5:56am
Australian shares have closed down more than 1 per cent as traders cut their exposure ahead of this weekend’s Greek referendum and as China’s stock market crash worsens.
The benchmark ASX 200 index finished off 62 points, or 1.1 per cent, to 5,538, while the broader All Ordinaries index was off 60 points at 5,528.
IG Markets institutional trader Chris Weston said the fall reflects “gap risk” around the Greek vote, which takes place on Sunday, meaning that traders cannot react immediately, but could be queuing sell orders on Monday morning, with few willing buyers.
“You can’t deal when the market’s closed but, when it does open, you get a situation where the market could open 3 per cent lower for example,” he said.
“Depending on what you’re in, that stock will open potentially 2 to 10 per cent lower.”
…
Chinese stock market crash far worse than Grexit
July 4, 2015
Gareth Hutchens
Fund managers surveyed by Bank of America Merrill Lynch are mostly optimistic a Grexit will be avoided.
Australians should be far more worried about a Chinese stock market crash than Greece exiting the eurozone, but it is impossible to predict the fall out from both, or whether both will occur, economists warn.
A group of 25 top forecasters – leaders in academia, consultancy, market and industry economics – have told BusinessDay that a crash on China’s share market would have a greater impact on Australia’s economy.
They say Australia’s trade linkages with China are far more advanced than with Greece, and if a Chinese share crash affected the country’s growth it would hit China’s demand for steel and hence for Australian iron ore and coal.
That would be a “major negative” for Australia’s iron ore mining company profits and “disastrous” for the smaller miners with higher costs “with a corresponding impact on mining revenues and the balance of payments,” Richard Robinson, BIS Shrapnel, says.
The warning comes after Greece this week defaulted on its loans from the International Monetary Fund, missing a €1.5bn repayment on Tuesday after a previous eurozone bailout expired and deprived the country of access to billions of euros of funds.
…
China’s stockmarket crash
All latest updates
Untameable market
A bad week for China’s stockmarkets could be felt for years to come
Jul 3rd 2015 | SHANGHAI | Business and finance
Timekeeper
FOR most of the past year, when Chinese stocks seemed capable only of rising, much commentary focused on how the government was in control of the market, pushing and prodding shares into a bull run of epic proportions. A violent correction since the start of June has exposed this view as a fallacy. Regulators have flailed about trying to halt the rout, with little effect. The Shanghai Composite, the country’s main index, has fallen nearly 30% in less than a month. The sell-off of small-cap stocks, which had led the rally, has been even sharper. Chinese regulators may have more levers to pull than their peers in most countries, but even they, it turns out, are powerless to tame the alternation between exuberance and fear that makes stockmarkets yoyo. In fact, their efforts to do so may be exacerbating the volatility.
Last weekend the central bank cut interest rates and freed up extra cash for lenders to dole out. These moves were seen at the time as a ‘PBoC put’—a signal from the People’s Bank of China that it was setting a floor for the fast-falling stockmarket.After three shaky days at the start of the week, though, officials decided to step up their support. The securities regulator relaxed rules on margin financing, making it easier for investors to borrow cash to buy shares and reducing pressure on brokers to call in collateral. The government announced that state pension funds would allocate more cash to the stockmarket. Official media, playing the cheerleader as ever, talked up blue-chip stocks. It did not work: rather than boosting confidence, the series of moves carried a whiff of desperation. The market tumbled nearly 10% on Thursday and Friday.
The crash has underlined the burgeoning role of debt in Chinese share-trading. Goldman Sachs reckons outstanding margin financing, at 2.2 trillion yuan ($355 billion) earlier this week, was the equivalent of 12% of the value of all freely traded shares on the market, or 3.5% of China’s GDP. Both “are easily the highest in the history of global equity markets,” its analysts noted. With Chinese shadow banks and peer-to-peer lenders also offering cash to investors, the amount of hidden leverage in the market is estimated to be as much as 50% higher. That debt helped fuel the initial rally. It is now adding to the pain, as leveraged investors rush to sell their holdings to cover their debts.
This is uncharted territory for China. When its last stock bubble burst, in 2007, authorities had yet to allow margin financing. The presence of so much debt in the market means that the knock-on consequences of the current sell-off could be farther reaching than in 2007. Investors who borrowed to buy shares now face huge losses. Brokers have decent buffers for now after raising plenty of capital, but the current crash will start to wear them thin. Banks, in theory, are immune, in that they are not allowed to lend for stockmarket speculation. But in practice, many will have, whether knowingly or not, and so will have a new category of bad debts to worry about.
…
I know AlbuquerqueDan is a busy fellow, so I am quoting the most important lines of the above Economist magazine article in case this is all he has time to read.
The Econimist? Rubbish! If it’s not being covered in Bicycle Magazine, it can’t possibly be happening!
Margin calls fuel China’s dramatic stock market collapse
At the centre of this dramatic slide are individual investors borrowing from a broker to buy securities
Stock market investors in eastern China’s Zhejiang province.
Photograph: AP
Katie Allen
Friday 3 July 2015 14.07 EDT
Last modified on Friday 3 July 2015 19.08 EDT
What goes up, can also come down, as the old adage and the modern-day investor warning go. And that is precisely what the tens of millions of people who hold shares in China have been discovering.
Chinese stocks had doubled between last November and mid-June, to the delight of a fast-growing army of retail investors. In echoes of the dotcom bubble in the US, much of the speculation, fuelled by borrowing, has been on technology stocks. But now shares across all sectors are tumbling. After another punishing week, and despite a surprise move last week by the central bank to cut interest rates, shares are now down nearly 30% from their peak less than four weeks ago.
Analysts had doubted that cutting borrowing costs to stabilise a selloff in an overheated market would work even in the short term – there were fears it might well cause more alarm. In the longer term, making borrowing easier in response to a problem caused by debt-fuelled speculation made little sense. And so it proved. The panic selling continued this week and concern about investors’ debt levels intensified.
At the centre of this dramatic stock market slide are individual investors borrowing from a broker to buy securities. Under that system the broker can make a demand for more cash or other collateral if the price of the securities has fallen – known as a margin call.
Such trading has been a key driver of the booming market, but regulators are cracking down. The resulting falling share prices have in turn triggered margin calls. Investors and policymakers are looking on with fear because if those margin calls continue, investors will have to offload other assets to come up with the cash they need.
For those who trade with China, the contagion fears add to worries that have been bubbling for some time. China’s economy was already losing steam and the next GDP figures are expected to show the slowest growth since before the financial crisis. It might in time make the financial fallout from Greece look tame.
…
The CCP, getting desperate, due to economic growth slowing below 7% tried to juice growth and consumer wealth…allowed margin lending.
Allowing Chinese investors to have margin accounts is like giving drunk teenagers sticks of dynamite and lighters.
Did you see Ben’s post on the other thread about how Chinese investors will henceforth be allowed to put up their homes as collateral on margin loans to invest in Chinese stocks? Talk about upping the ante!
No PB, I didn’t and thanks for the heads up on it.
A good portion of the Chinese population could lose all of their assests on this role to keep the economy rolling at around 7%
I thought those homes were bought with mortgages. How can they use them as collateral? Are they double dipping collateral with houses like they did with warehouses full of steel? And if they are putting away 40% of their income, why do they need with stocks, or at least risky stocks?
China’s tycoons lose $45 billion as stock market tumbles
July 3, 2015
Jill Mao and Sterling Wong
From rags to riches, but hit hard last month: Lens Technology’s Zhou Qunfei became China’s richest woman after her company floated on the sharemarket in March.
The worst monthly slump in Chinese stocks in two years wiped away more than $US34 billion ($45 billion) in combined net worth of the richest people in China and Hong Kong in June.
Of those 45 wealthy people on the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, more than 80 per cent lost money in June as the Shanghai Composite Index tumbled.
“The fortunes of billionaires are closely tied to the rise and fall of stocks,” said Zhang Lu, a Shanghai-based analyst at Capital Securities Corp. “When the market is more unstable, like now, their fortunes go down.”
…
Asia stocks fall, China market rout continues
Reuters
Jul 4, 2015 03:00 IST
HONG KONG Asian stocks fell as Chinese stocks extended their plunge and growing caution ahead of Greece’s referendum prompted investors to cut risky bets, while disappointing U.S. employment data weighed on the dollar.
Stocks in Shanghai trimmed earlier declines but were still down about 3 percent in afternoon trade, taking total losses to nearly 30 percent since a peak on June 12.
The rout in China’s stock markets has wiped out trillions of dollars of market capitalization in Shanghai and Shenzhen’s stock markets.
Financial spreadbetters expected Britain’s FTSE 100 to open down 0.1 percent, Germany’s DAX up 0.2 percent, and France’s CAC 40 or 0.3 percent higher.
MSCI’s broadest index of Asia-Pacific shares outside Japan fell 0.6 percent.
Japan’s Nikkei stock index ended broadly flat while Korea’s Kospi slipped 0.1 percent.
“Some of the stocks which have seen bubbly valuations in China have been the hardest hit in this selloff, and risk sentiment is broadly under pressure ahead of the weekend referendum,” said Nicholas Yeo, head of equities (China/Hong Kong) at Aberdeen Asset Management with assets under management of US$490.8 billion globally.
China’s tech-heavy ChiNext index which had more than doubled to be the world’s hottest stock market, is down nearly 40 percent from this year’s highs.
…
There are four stories on the Marketwatch homepage as of 16:00 hrs ET. With the Sunday referendom on Greece it gets all the main headlines.
According to the Wall Street Journal writers, the $2,400 bn in China stock market losses over the past three weeks roughly equals Greece GDP for all of 2014.
Will a $19.3 bn panic fund be sufficient, along with other bailout measures both announced and unannounced, to halt the $2,400 bn crash underway, especially given the flood of capital flowing out of China into foreign asset markets (e.g. to purchase houses in the U.S., UK, Canada, Oz, etc.)?
You cannot compare the value of the decline to the amount that has been pledged and think that it is meaningful. Share prices are set at the margin, it took very little selling to cause the price decline. Ten billion dollars in selling may have caused a 800 billion dollar decline in the value of the stock market.
I think I just did make that comparison, and I was citing the Wall Street Journal writers, not some communist propaganda mouthpiece.
No, you did not. To use an extreme example, company X has one million shares outstanding on Tuesday. They sell for $2 a share. On Wednesday, 100 shares trade hands at $1 share. Thus, the selling of $100 dollar worth of stock has reduced the value of the company by $1 million dollars. If on Thursday someone buys the shares at two dollars and spends $200 dollars he or she will increase the value of the company by one million dollars. Similarly, it is easy to see how 20 billion dollars of buying could increase the overall value of the market by hundreds of billions of dollars.
Flawed logic, as there is no bid distribution in your example, and hence no maximum bid which represents today’s market value. Never speculate in a market so thin that there are only one or two bids, unless you want to lose your shirt.
“Ten billion dollars in selling may have caused a 800 billion dollar decline in the value of the stock market.”
But this is always the case; It is always the case when it comes to the prices of stocks and is always the case when it comes to the prices of houses: The few set the prices - set the values - for the many.
And when the few buyers who set the prices are crazy then the prices get crazy, and these crazy prices attract additional buyers who in turn go a bit crazy and then the craziness - and the crazy price rises - intensifies.
Up to a point, and when this point is reached and exceeded then the craziness begins to unwind and the extreme prices that were generated by the craziness begin to decline and as this happens the craziness tends to get driven out of the market, which is something that seems to be happening now.
“Up to a point, and when this point is reached and exceeded then the craziness begins to unwind..”
Thank you! I’ve already used all the keystrokes I am willing to use this morning to point out the flaws in AlbuquerqueDan’s analysis. Glad others are willing and able to step up.
IMO when the prosperity of a person is measured by the price of what he owns (as opposed to the income that he earns) then his prosperity can be resting on shaky ground if the price of what he owns is determined by total strangers who may have gone completely nuts.
And his prosperity is really on shaky grounds when even the income that he earns is dependent on the prices of what he and others own, especially when these prices are determined by total strangers who have gone nuts.
I remember reading of workers laughing at the demise of the Wall Streeters after the 1929 stock market crash, laughing until the stock market crash worked its way through the economy to the point whereby they, the workers, got laid off from their jobs.
It turned out for many that the prosperity of the stock market - the “wealth” generated by rising stock prices - translated into employment for the workers, so when the wealth was yanked away the jobs that depended on this wealth vanished soon thereafter.
And this has not changed all that much: The wealth generated by some is translated into jobs for others.
But what has changed is where these jobs are located; It used to be that the jobs were kept at home, kept in the U.S., but now the jobs, many of them, are located somewhere else, so when wealth is created in the U.S. some other place is the place that prospers.
And the reverse is true: When the wealth at home vanishes along with the lofty prices that generated this wealth then the place where the jobs were located takes a hit.
Note that 1% of $2,400 bn is $24 bn, so $19.3 bn is less than one percent of losses thus far. It sounds like a drop in the bucket, but perhaps using sufficient leverage, the new fund could have its intended effect to stop the leverage-induced losses.
Once again the selling and buying of very few shares sets the price of stocks and for that matter houses. One person overpaying for a house by $10,000 can increase the “value” of a neighborhood by one million dollars. To do a proper analysis of the impact on 20 billion dollars you do not look at the overall value of the market, you look at the value of shares that are actually traded on an average day.
‘One person overpaying for a house by $10,000 can increase the “value” of a neighborhood by one million dollars.’
Why am I unsurprised you have fallen for this popular misconception?
It is not a misconception the comp can inflate the entire neighborhood. BTW, a Drudge headline exists talking about how the Greeks may start raiding bank deposits. I guess more Greeks should have bought gold and stayed out of the banks, too late now.
“One person overpaying for a house by $10,000 can increase the “value” of a neighborhood by one million dollars.”
“Why am I unsurprised you have fallen for this popular misconception?”
But he is correct - and this is the problem.
If one person can over pay for a house (or a stock) then he sets the prices for all the other comparable houses (or stocks), which translates into this one person setting the VALUES of all the comparable houses (or stocks).
So the actions of one person can affect the wealth of many people - people he does not even know. And these people who suddenly have their wealth affected, many of them at least, will alter their behavior, they will act (and spend) as if they are wealthy.
“It is not a misconception the comp can inflate the entire neighborhood.”
Well, I guess if you say so, that pretty much makes it true.
It is true and I am shocked that you do not understand that it was the relatively few idiots with their liar loans and very low initial interest rates that priced people that were honestly trying to value a house out of the market.
“It is true and I am shocked that you do not understand that it was the relatively few idiots with their liar loans and very low initial interest rates…”
And I, in turn, am shocked that you do not understand that it was the relatively few idiots using massive leverage, funded by subprime margin loans, who bid the Chinese stock market indexes up to recent unsustainable levels which led to the crash currently underway. Are you somehow blind to this obvious parallel!?
I am not blind to it and neither was the Chinese government. The government signaled to everyone that it was concerned about the amount of speculation and actively discouraged buying on margin. Then, after a twenty percent correction, it has reversed course. Now, you can fight the Chinese “Fed” but I do not think that is wise. It does not work here to fight the fed and I cannot see it working longer than a few days over there.
‘Now, you can fight the Chinese “Fed” but I do not think that is wise.’
I guess you were too busy to read that Economist magazine article I posted?
And what does the Economist Magazine predict for China’s GDP this year? Just look at the page with the world statistics and tell me.
“The government signaled to everyone that it was concerned about the amount of speculation and actively discouraged buying on margin.”
When the markets went down 20% the goverment decreased the cost of margin loans…how does that discourge buying on margin?
“The government signaled to everyone that it was concerned about the amount of speculation and actively discouraged buying on margin.”
Then the stock market went down 20% and the government reduced margin lending costs.
How does that discurage buying on margin?
Wow, I see double. Have to reduce the amount of Samuel Adams brews I’m enjoying.
Happy Independence Day–hicup
P-bear, how is this a misconception? A $10,000 comp can result in the next 100 houses selling for $10,000 more, each. There’s your $1 M.
That said, this would NOT really work for houses, because houses are not identical and the transactions take weeks. But it does work for quick transactions for generally identical units such as stocks. Or better yet, barrels of crude. This is why Dan is right that if the world demand is high enough to need $80 crude from Alberta, then the $6 (
) crude from Saudi will also be worth $80.
“P-bear, how is this a misconception?”
Like AlbuquerqueDan’s misconceived example, you pretend only one buyer is involved, ignoring all the other buyers in the market who could have made the winning offer, but didn’t.
Dingbatisms and donkeyisms. We get the best ones here on the hbb.
The Wall Street Journal has used a figure of $2.4 trillion to describe the magnitude of China stock market losses thus far, while other media outlets are using $2.8 trillion ($US). I wonder where the truth lies?
Panic sets in as Shanghai Composite drops 30pc, $3.7 trillion wiped of China share market despite crackdown
By business reporter Sue Lannin
Updated Fri at 1:16am
Investors looks at stock results in China
Photo: The value of Chinese stocks has plunged by at least $US2.8 trillion ($3.7 trillion) since the middle of June. (Reuters: China Daily)
Panic has set in on China’s share markets as traders call in investors’ margins loans.
The main index, the Shanghai Composite, has plunged by 30 per cent since its peak in the middle of June, the biggest three-week fall in more than 20 years.
The value of Chinese stocks has plunged by at least $US2.8 trillion ($3.7 trillion).
A new crackdown on market manipulation and mis-selling of investment products by the securities regulator has failed to stop the falls.
That has prompted fears of a share market crash in China but analysts in Australia are playing down the risks.
The Shanghai Composite Index has dropped by a third since the middle of June after rising around 150 per cent over the past year.
It plunged by nearly 6 per cent on Friday in another volatile day of trade.
But AMP Capital chief economist Shane Oliver is optimistic and described it as correction, not a crash.
“We’ve already had quite a sharp fall, I don’t think we’ll see a crash in the Chinese share market,” Mr Oliver told PM.
…
The Chinese neighbors are yelling unusually loudly this morning. I wonder how much dough they have lost on the Chinese stock market rout over the past three weeks?
If they had been in the market since last summer they would be buying in a better neighborhood right now.
I believe they timed the San Diego Echo Bubble peak perfectly!
Probably trying to decide to get out what profits they have left or stay and hope the Chinese PPP can turn those machines back on get the ponzi market back up.
China’s efforts this week to stem the tide of losses on its main stock market failed on Friday when the Shanghai Composite index plunged a further 5.8%, taking the drop in share values to 28% since their June peak.
Panic selling wiped more than £2tn off the value of Chinese-listed companies and traders signalled the rout would extend into next week.
The authorities had cut fees and eased borrowing rules that make it cheaper to buy shares in the hope it would cheer investors battered by the relentless selling since 12 June.
A promise by the main stock market regulator to tackle concerns of market manipulation, which has sapped investor confidence in recent days, also failed to halt the slide.
The China Securities Regulatory Commission, the market watchdog, said it would launch an investigation into suspected stock market manipulation, without giving details of how long the probe would take or which organisations were under suspicion.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/03/chinas-stock-market-slump-continues
Question is can the Chinese government fix this and I do mean “fix”.
Fear. Twin Peaks.
Now that Chinese grandmothers have lost much more than they have in their savings accounts, the all wise and powerful CCP plans to pour its sovereign-wealth fund into the collapsing market.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/china-setting-up-fund-to-stabilize-stock-market-1435991611
This is “boring” propaganda. There is no “stock market decline.” China is just experiencing “negative appreciation.” There is no “panic selling.” This is just an “uptick in the volatility index.” There is no “market manipulation.” You are confused. These are just “market makers” “creating market liquidity.” I’d explain it to you but that would involve complex math which readers here couldn’t possibly understand because they don’t have a degree in economics from Princeton like me. So you’ll just have to trust my authority on the issue. Frankly I’ve never seen a better time to invest in Chinese growth equities than now - the demographic trends make this a remarkable time to own Chinese equities. You don’t want to be left behind while everyone else makes a killing do you?
“I’d explain it to you but that would involve complex math which readers here couldn’t possibly understand because they don’t have a degree in economics from Princeton like me.”
Thanks for the early morning chuckle! The HBB could use more humor like that to leaven the gloom.
The HBB could use more humor like that to leaven the gloom.
Gloom? What gloom? I love the smell of burning speculators in the morning. It smells like…victory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBksHaTQCbU
“I love the smell of napalm in the morning.”
Eh, I have one of those and I still love the joke. It doesn’t take complex math to understand the problems with the Chinese economy. Lack of transparency, a one party government, and the fact wealthy Chinese definitely do not actually want to live in China long-term… Those are the major problems.
I was feeling lucky that I hadn’t yet brewed my daily dose of joe by when I read that post, as otherwise I am certain I would have snorted coffee all over my keyboard.
Let’s come right out and say it. A culture of corruption, where wealth is a zero sum game, and the end justifies the means. The man who tainted baby formula saw nothing wrong with what he was doing, until - to his surprise - he went before a firing squad.
Corruption - genetically imprinted - is the defining characteristic of the Chinese world-view.
The wealthy Chinese who want to flee got their wealth with dirty hands, and they export their mindset wherever they settle.
Gresham’s Law.
Must.Levitate.the.Ponzi.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-04/china-scrambles-put-plunge-protection-team-together-banks-pledge-support-crashing-ma
You can just smell the desperation…
I must admit I’m a bit depressed about China. Yes I knew it was coming but I must admit I’d hoped to get into December before a crash happened, I rather doubt it will now. Why you ask, do you want China to keep going to then, pure self interest.
Many years ago nearly twenty five now I took out an endowment policy with an insurance company, I was young and stupid. To compound the stupidity ten years later I bought a house which the insurance policy would later pay for (very stupid, I know) and while I quickly converted the death pledge to a repayment death pledge it was over twenty five years. The endowment policy return plummeted in the crash but recently in no small part to the rise of China and it’s pull on stock markets through out the world it looked like come November I’d have enough plus a bit to pay of the death pledge; not looking so good now. Hey ho at least I’m a stoic by inclination, I’d be suicidal if I I was an optimist.
Let her crater.
Endowment policy insurance company death pledge? Huh? I have no idea what that means, sounds tricky.
MORTGAGE = DEATH PLEDGE: Latin words Mort-Gage Literally Translated Mort Means (Death) Gage Means (Pledge)
Endowment policies
An endowment policy is an investment product that you buy from a life assurance company. They are set up as regular savings plans and at the end of a set period pay out a lump sum. The policy includes life assurance, so it will also pay out if you die during the term.
I got that…nicely written! Mr. Micawber might have similarly expressed himself in similar straights.
From one stoic to another, I am sorry to hear about your losses. It’s entirely possible another round of Chinese stock market mania lies ahead, as the government is pulling out all the stops to bring it on.
In case reflation efforts fail, watch out below.
China brokerages pledge to buy $19.3 billion in shares to steady plunging market
By Michael Martina
BEIJING | Sat Jul 4, 2015 7:53am EDT
BEIJING (Reuters) - China’s top securities brokerages said on Saturday that they would collectively buy at least 120 billion yuan ($19.3 billion
of shares in a bid to stabilize the country’s stock markets after a slump of nearly 30 percent since mid-June.
The pledge follows near-daily official policy moves over the past week, including an interest rate cut and a relaxation of margin lending rules, that have so far failed to arrest the sell-off, which some market watchers fear could turn into a full-blown crash.
The rout in China’s highly leveraged stock market has become a major worry for international investors, who fear a meltdown could further destabilize the global economy even as Greece risks crashing out of the European common currency.
China stocks had more than doubled over the past year, fueled in large part by investors using borrowed money to speculate on further gains.
The brokerages met on Saturday in Beijing to discuss the market situation and expressed “full confidence” in the development of China’s capital markets, a statement on the website of the Securities Association of China said.
“Twenty-one securities brokerages will jointly invest 15 percent of net assets as of the end of June, or no less than 120 billion yuan, in blue chip exchange traded funds,” it said.
The brokerages will not sell off holdings as long as the Shanghai Composite Index is below 4,500 points, the statement said.
That could leave them saddled with heavy losses on paper from the start. The SSEC index fell 5.8 percent on Friday to end at 3,684 points.
Listed securities companies among the 21 brokerages, along with their major shareholders, also would buy back shares.
Hong Haoa chief strategist at BOCOM International，said he was confused by the slew of measures announced recently.
Hao doubted the latest plan would be enough to arrest the price slide，and said it could sow the seeds of fresh problems in the future by further distorting the market.
“Around 120 billion yuan is not enough，but if leverage (more borrowing) is used，it could expand to over 500 billion yuan and that may have some effect,” he said.
…
The brokerages will not sell off holdings as long as the Shanghai Composite Index is below 4,500 points, the statement said.
No problem, all the brokerages will start unloading at 4,501
A case of keeping the plates spinning, but at some point they will fall.
Wsj dot com
Markets
China to Set Up Fund to Curb Stock Selloff
Total of 21 brokerages to invest $19.3 billion in the fund amid concerns that the selloff could spread to other parts of the economy
A Chinese investor looks his mobile phone in front of a big screen showing stock market movements in a securities brokerage house in Beijing, China.
Photo: European Pressphoto Agency
By Lingling Wei
Updated July 4, 2015 4:53 a.m. ET
BEIJING—China is establishing a market-stabilization fund aimed at fighting off the biggest stock selloff in years, as concerns grow among the Chinese leadership that the stock-market malaise could be spreading to other parts of the world’s second-largest economy.
Senior Chinese officials, including those at the State Council, China’s cabinet, the central bank, and the country’s top securities regulatory agency, are meeting Saturday to discuss another round of measures aimed at arresting the stock slide, according to people familiar with the matter.
The move comes after that the benchmark Shanghai Composite Index has lost more than a quarter of its value since a high on June 12. Previous steps including an interest-rate cut by the central bank have failed to impress investors, many of whom have been forced to unwind their leveraged bets as stocks continue to drop.
Chief among the measures being discussed Saturday is the setup of a fund that will be used to prevent stocks from falling further, the people said.
The fund will get its initial financing from China’s big securities firms. According to a statement from the Securities Association of China on Saturday afternoon, some 21 Chinese brokerages led by Citic Securities Co. will invest the equivalent of 15% of their net assets as of the end of June, or no less than 120 billion yuan ($19.3 billion) in total, in the fund. But that amount is unlikely to be enough. The plunge in Chinese equities in the past three weeks has wiped out about $2.4 trillion in market value—or about 10 times Greece’s gross domestic product last year.
…
The brokerages are putting money where their mouths are, 4500 is more that ten percent higher than the market is now:
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/business/finance/China-brokers-vow-to-stabilize-stock-market/shdaily.shtml
All recent history shows that you should go whole hog in right now. If there is a crash you will be bailed out after the powers do everything they can to prop it up. I am 100 percent serious about this. The snarkhate for Adan here seems to be getting in the way of looking at what will probably happen as opposed to what should happen.
Does questioning the logical underpinnings of his 24/7 propaganda messages qualify as “snarkhate” by your definition?
What you call propaganda, I call balance. For two years this board has been announcing the imminent collapse of the Chinese economy, it hasn’t happen and is increasing unlikely that any collapse will occur. Even the housing market is turning around. I have been right and this board has been wrong.
Doesn’t crow for dinner ever start to taste bad?
Crow lo mein?
Are there alternate methods of preparation for Crow and Crater Taters? How about a sprinkle of sawdust? A crumble of siding? A bag of concrete chips?
“you will be bailed out”
Which simply collapses demand further and drives inventory of all items through the roof.
How great of a collapse are you really championing here?
Isn’t forming a $19.3 billion to stem a $2,400 bn crash underway something like stepping out in front of a moving train to stop it with your bare hands?
If the engineer pulling on the brakes inside the train manages to stop it before it reaches you, anyone watching the situation from the outside might take the mistaken impression that you stopped it with your bare hands. But in case the train doesn’t stop, you could get crushed.
Excerpt:
CHINA’S 21 major securities brokers convened on Saturday, vowing to “firmly” stabilize the country’s stock market, which is suffering from continued plunges.
The 21 brokers will spend no less than 120 billion yuan (US$19.62 billion) on blue chip-based exchange traded funds(ETF), accounting for 15 percent of their total net assets, according to a joint statement issued by the brokers.
The brokers will not sell the stocks they held on July 3 and buy more in a proper time so long as the benchmark Shanghai Composite Index is below 4,500 points.
The Securities Association of China said in a statement that it appreciated the brokers’ decision and asked all broker firms to view China’s economic situation and capital market in a correct way and take similar actions to underpin the ailing market.
Source Of Funds: China Central Bank
If you are right, then the $19.3 bn announced could be a mere smoke screen for a much larger intervention. And China has no FOIA, so this will not be independently verifiable.
You can add your $20 billion to the $2 Trillion that already went down the rat hole.
This is what happens when too much debt is used to build the pretense of prosperity. It can get big, but it is fragile. Now they are afraid this could tear down the actual economy which is a much bigger debt Ponzi.
“Now they are afraid this could tear down the actual economy which is a much bigger debt Ponzi.”
Isn’t the real economy already well past the point of no return along the path of using dumb borrowed money to build entire cities devoid of human occupants?
China’s CCP leadership probably realizes what a Ponzi they’ve built up, but fear that a bubble implosion will lead to social unrest.
It’s hard to stop the flow of pus out of a pimple once popped.
Ray, your right as the CCP built this ponzi. That is why chinese investors have been so confident that the Government would rush in to bail them out.
Now, we will see how much it is going to take for them to do it. It would have been a lot easier and cheaper if they did not allow margin. Of course, that was the main driver to get the ponzi moving in the first place.
Debt like fire: keep it contain it serves humanity let it does and it devors everything.
oh, “let it loose” the that fire analogy thing.
Collapsing China Debt Bubble.
Ray, your right as the CCP built this ponzi. That is why chinese investors have been so confident that the Government would rush in to bail them out.
The CCP created and sustained the Ponzi, and in doing so has created the moral hazard that encourages reckless speculation in the belief the government has your back if you “invest” in the bubble. It’s the moral equivilant of the “Bernanke Put” or Yelen the Felen and her continued untenable ZIRP policies aimed at levitating our Ponzi markets and implicitly privatizing profits (for the .1%) and socializing losses. And in both cases, when the inevitable crash comes, the bagholders are going to blame the central planners and central bankers who created the Ponzi, and the regulators and enforcers who turned a blind eye (if not being actively complicit) and failed to safeguard the public interest.
Are U.S. markets vaccinated against China and Greek contagion?
How does that work? And why aren’t other markets in the global financial economy also immune?
Here’s the cheapest listing in the ‘Aegean Sea’ area in Greece. $110,000 gets you a partially-finished 1000sf concrete and brick pillbox with a rather nice ocean view. I wonder what it will be when priced in drachmas.
http://www.realtor.com/international/listing-detail/Kithnos_Aegean-Sea_GR_12673994
Depends what $25k is in drachmas.
What does 100CY concrete and installation of a few thousand sqft of formwork cost in Greece? Maybe $10k?
$25K is asking a lot from people who cannot take their money out of the bank.
Almost all the construction in Greece is incomplete to some extent. The reason being is there is no property tax on a building that is under construction. Consequently there are buildings that have started construction in 1945 and still aren’t finished. But people live in them as they are and unless they tax laws change they will never be complete. An eye sore? Perhaps but it’s game theory at work. That’s being said I love Greece.
It’s that way with any structure. You’re always throwing good money after bad at it to offset depreciation.
Got Cash?
“Got Cash?”
Preferably not held in Euros in a Greek bank
If they switch to the Drachma and devalue 50% that 1000sf concrete and brick pillbox is going to be $50K instead of $100K.
So if I spend $30 to change the oil and filter on my car, am I throwing good money after bad?
If I spend $100 to have my air conditioner maintained, am I throwing good money after bad?
Gee whiz. I thought you needed to spend money to maintain durable goods to offset deterioration.
And they depreciate despite throwing good money after bad.
To what end? Magnified losses.
The radical-left government is shifting into a confiscatory mode to raise money. Foreign-owned properties would make easy targets for exorbidant new taxes. I’ll pass on Greek property at any price in a socialist state where the rule of law is applied to rip off the productive.
But it’s got an ocean view!
+1
Yesterday’s Wall Street Journal reporting that Salon dot com staffers have voted to join a union, LOLZ
LOL indeed. Salon isn’t quite so lefty when it comes to paying a living wage to its staffers.
I watched “Ai Weiwei: Never Sorry” on Netflix last night. If anyone wants to see what’s going on in China, I recommend it.
Seeing these posters talk about “getting in” on China reminds me that we used to have a soul in this country. Why are we letting one made in China thing get in? Oh, and if you watch the film, note the part where he is trying to gather information on the children killed in the earth-quake and an”official” accuses him of being an “American spy”. They have no regard for us. I’m tempted to throw out anything made by this despicable regime.
We need to become more like China. Americans are motivated by greed and self-interest. We can only solve this by centralizing power so we can take collective action for society. We need to cleanse the people by instituting strict control and monitoring of all media, internet access and communications. We need to vigilantly monitor all citizens and reform those that would work against the people.
Suppose you think we need to kill off 30 million of our fellow citizens to help get things moving in a better direction.
Oh how “boring!” No one in the right mind would want to stand in our way once we start to hand out all the free health-care, real-estate, food, automobiles, Internet access, fuel, etc. Why wood they? Now there will be a few still vested in the old corrupt system. We’ll reeducate them by sending them to school in Northern Alaska or by recruiting them into military service and sending them out to do their patriotic duty for the people.
The military is actually a superb platform for acculturating people into civilized behavior.
Chinese suppliers will screw anyone over for a yuan.
The trouble is, Ben, with the way the Republicrat duopoly has offshored our manufacturing base to assuage their oligarch bankrollers’ greed-fueled quest for obscene profits, American workers be damned, it’s damn near impossible to find made-in-America goods any more. And ‘Muricans are okay with that, even with 93.6 million of us “out of the work force,” because 95% keep bending over for the Oligopoly by voting for more of the status quo.
See you’ve got it! That’s why we need to put manufacturing in the hands of the people. Working for profit is stealing form the society and corrupts the soul. Once we have control we can put people back to work manufacturing what society needs without regards to the constraints of price. Everyone can have a good manufacturing job with benefits and retirement. No one can be fired anymore. Paradise!
I have had this discussion from time to time with one of my “buddies”, who I may cut ties with exactly because of this issue.
In an earlier post some days ago I mentioned that the big thing in online selling for moms and pops is “widgets” made in China, which they private label and sell on Amazon. Apparently there are entire courses now about how to become a millionaire selling “private label” Chinese crap on Amazon, one of them costs upwards of $5,000.00. Kitchen tools, bed and bath stuff, novelties, etc.
He’s into it big time. Hasn’t gotten off the ground yet, but he’s gonna. Buying crap from China and re-selling it is where it’s at. It’s like a religion with the people who do it, check out some of the videos on line, it’s quite an education. Have a barf bag handy.
Agree 100%.
China’s terrible government and lack of livable cities is going to be a real impediment to long term, sustainable living there. The top tier might stay, but the levels just below them will look to get out. It’s just not a good place to live, due to the lack of good courts, human rights, environmental regulation, and private property rights. “But look at their amazing infrastructure” –> lol. That infrastructure is going to be old and hard to maintain 20 years from now when China has many retirees and relatively fewer workers. And when most people who can leave do so.
Going to watch that ai weiwei documentary this weekend, thanks for the rec.
As compared to Baltimore?
Seeing these posters talk about “getting in” on China reminds me that we used to have a soul in this country.
Ben, that’s what bothers me the most about America’s decline: the readiness to turn a blind eye to the worst sort of malfeasance as long as money can be made. I suspect there’s a high correlation between the dead souls who voted for the Republicrat status quo, i.e. Obama, McCain, and Romney, while those who still have a divine spark are among the 5% who voted for Ron Paul and who refuse to go quietly into that Long Goodnight, despite being hopelessly outnumbered by the zombies.
Ai Weiwei: Never Sorry
Thanks for the tip.
It is sad that we support these psychopaths.
Here’s the cheapest listing in Shanghai. $48,000 gets you a surprisingly decent looking little (560ft2) condo with a view of trees.
http://www.century21global.com/property/%E5%90%B4%E6%B1%9F%E6%B1%BE%E6%B9%96%E7%BB%8F%E6%B5%8E%E5%BC%80%E5%8F%91%E5%8C%BA%E8%81%94%E5%8D%97%E8%B7%AF-shanghai-china-C21106115265-USD
Another $10k of material and profit.
Here is a new one -
I received a form letter from chase dated June 18 saying my accounts would be closed because “we noticed unusual activity or we haven’t received information we requested from you.” I still don’t see any unusual activity on my accounts and have never been asked for any information, so these reasons must be form letter nonsense. I am, er… was, a 30 year plus customer maintaining tens of thousands in the various accounts, never even bounced a check, ever. The letter said I would receive a check in the mail in 10 days, well as of today, no such check. Online access gone, account restricted, can’t get my money. I called customer service and was told it was a “back office” decision and they had no details. I asked to talk with the back office and was told they don’t take phone calls. Of course I did a Google search about this and results show I am not the only one to receive such letters. What in the heck is up with this bank? There is even a website called chase-sucks.com. Irritated and maybe a little scared at this point, we are talking about significant money here. Any suggestions?
1. Get a different bank.
2. Limit the amount of money you keep in whatever bank you use to the minimum needed to cover current liabilities.
The banking industry is undergoing a high level of regulatory scrutiny right now. The Feds are on a witch hunt for money launderers and foreign entities. As a result, the banks need to document the identities of their customers to the satisfaction of the regulatory authorities. If the banks are found in violation they can face punitive fines.
Google the terms Banking, Know Your Customer, AML (anti money laundering) and you should find some interesting reading.
You might consider showing up at a Chase branch with photo ID (drivers license, passport, etc) and see if you can find someone who has a clue about how to get your accounts straightened out.
Ask them to clarify the “unusual activity or the information they requested from you.”
Write a letter - if for no other reason than to discover if you are on the black list. If you get on the black list that is shared by the banks it is going to be really hard to get a bank account at any other major bank. I’ve seen this happen to friends and it isn’t pretty. If you aren’t on the blacklist you are fine - just find a bank that wants your money and don’t bother haggling with Chase. I mean what is this going to cost you to move to a new bank? Just the cost of some new checks and your time. On Monday I would call all the local branches of any banks within driving distance and ask questions about fees and limitations of their various account and see if the person on the other end can give you precise answers or not. If they can’t scratch them off your list. Then go to the branches were you found competent help and walk the lobby and ask to see a new account specialist and have a chat. Finally pick the team you want to deal with. Shopping for a bank is just like shopping for anything. It pays to do your research, ask questions and get to know the competition before deciding. Three is a world of difference in local bank teams. It usually doesn’t cost any more to find the best.
Ive had a hand full of clients experience this. They usually have some reason to make cash deposits. like someone pointed out, the closure is largely due to increased federal scrutiny. It is easier for the bank to close the account than deal with the fed scrutiny.
Bingo!
Also, try credit unions. Cheaper and better service.
Good advice! At least check credit unions. As it turns out in my local community the credit unions had really bad service and not the best staff. I actually found a Mega-Bank with a local team I really like. But it’s all local. The same bank in another community would be a different story. Find the team and the terms you like. I do like credit unions and use a couple of national credit unions but that’s not for local face-to-face daily banking. But national credit unions often can offer great deals on CDs and loans.
+1 - I work with a credit union and have never had a problem.
Deal with credit unions is understand clearly how well capitalized they are - they are all over the place. Bankrate.com is a good place to start and I think they have a standard metric they post that allows you to make an informed decision.
I am done with the Big Bad Bank - much to the chagrin of Mr. Banker - the meanest, nastiest, greediest groveling snipe on the face of the earth - next to politicians and Obama of course.
I keep a low balance and one day a week I take out cash to stuff under my mattress. Have been doing this for months, about the same amount. The banks probably think I’m treating my lady love to a fancy dinner in Orange County once a week for all they care.
So glad that Obama has sealed the borders, does anyone really think ISIS cannot come across the border?
http://news.yahoo.com/video/san-francisco-pier-14-fatal-055807935.html
He did seal the border silly. But at the same time he moved the border down to Columbia. Didn’t you get the memo?
That is a classic - LMFAO!!!
Greek Banks Considering 30% Haircut On Deposits Over €8,000: FT
What do you want to bet all that money from spinsters ends up in the hands of the banking oligarchs? Rule # 16: Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
oh you can bet.
However most of those elderly bought into the idea of socialism. It was one huge Ponzi scheme. Retirement at 45. I sympathize with those elderly Greeks. They were indoctrinated into thinking there is no other alternative to socialism and that it is proper.
Government employees in America are on that same path. My friends who were government employees retired in their mid 50s recently. They are on the FERS.
Also the Social Security here is a Ponzi scheme. True, we pay in, but we count on getting all that the SSA promise us when we retire. And by golly I will certainly not turn mine down.
No one in America on the receiving end of taxpayer money should laugh at the Greeks. It’s at the point where most of us are scamming our neighbors who are taxpayers and the one who winds up with the most fiat wins.
We are all socialist now. Capitalism has been completely discredited. Socialism wasn’t Greece’s problem. The problem was that Greece wasn’t socialist enough! No one has tried real socialism yet. This won’t be solved until the means of production are administers by the people and everyone in society becomes an employee of the people and receives their fair share of the production of the people. Imagine a world of free health-care, free food and free shelter for all? That time is now!
Socialism is theft from the productive to reward the parasites for their votes-for-entitlements “loyalty.” Pure and simple. Forward, Permanent Democrat Supermajority!
LOLZ “the problem was that Greece wasn’t socialist enough” - wow I heard this for the first time (not).
http://www.rossputin.com/blog/media/socialism_explained.jpg
I think he is pulling our collective legs. He is taking an argument to its illogical conclusion to demonstrate the fallacy of the argument.
Oh Albuquerquedan - that was the old SFBayArea! He was an evil 1%’er. On the night of Tuesday, November 6, 2012 I was visited by the ghost of Vladimir Lenin. He showed me the future. I quit my job and now I’m a socialist. We’re all socialist now!
Greece also has a “conservative” anti-tax mindset: they are notorious for not paying any taxes at all and getting away with it. A toxic mix, government pensions and no revenue. It’s the George Bush economic model: increase spending and cut taxes at the same time.
Linky:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-03/greek-banks-considering-30-haircut-deposits-over-%E2%82%AC8000-ft-reports
Just to keep the players straight, Pangolin = JingleMale = Palladin?
You’re gettin’ there.
For the record, I have used several different handles over the years, mainly to reflect the changing situation at hand.
For example, GetStucco returns on occasion to warn on the risk of massive future losses that buying assets on leverage creates, a lesson that a whole new generation of China stock market investors has recently learned.
You’re GetStucco? No way - I remember you from way back. Cool beans!
At one point in Fall 2006, I briefly used Hopeful as a name on some posts I made which mimicked the optimism of many who couldn’t conceive of an end to the U.S. housing market perpetual money machine. But the resulting censure was so severe, I quickly tired of the ruse.
I can recall the exact timing, as I happened to be in HI, staring out the window of a high rise hotel at a sea of construction cranes, when I made these posts.
“I can recall the exact timing, as I happened to be in HI, staring out the window of a high rise hotel at a sea of construction cranes, when I made these posts.”
You flew all the way to Hawaii to sit in a hotel room and blog?
Rather sad, that.
Oh no…just did a little blogging in the morning, and a bit more in the evening. No kidz in sight helped free up lotsa free time for blogging, work and fun…
Greek banks prepare plan to raid deposits to avert collapse
Greek banks are preparing contingency plans for a possible “bail-in” of depositors
by FT.com | Kerin Hope | July 4, 2015
Greek banks are preparing contingency plans for a possible “bail-in” of depositors amid fears the country is heading for financial collapse, bankers and businesspeople with knowledge of the measures said on Friday.
The plans, which call for a “haircut” of at least 30 per cent on deposits above €8,000, sketch out an increasingly likely scenario for at least one bank, the sources said.
A Greek bail-in could resemble the rescue plan agreed by Cyprus in 2013, when customers’ funds were seized to shore up the banks, with a haircut imposed on uninsured deposits over €100,000.
It would be implemented as part of a recapitalisation of Greek banks that would be agreed with the country’s creditors — the European Commission, International Monetary Fund and European Central Bank.
Got Bitcoin?
30% in Greece. Maybe 35% in the rest of the PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Spain). Then 40% in the USA plus confiscation of 40% of everyone’s IRAs and 401ks.
Followed by “privatization” of SS, as 401 (k) accounts represent the last great unlooted resource for the Republicrats to open up for their Wall Street patrons to grab.
Don’t kid yourself. The Wall Street patrons are already looting the 401(k) accounts by over charging the management fees on the vast majority funds in the accounts.
Ever see a 60 basis point management fee for an index fund? That’s only about 10 times higher than what it should be.
I think you may be misunderstanding this. Think of all the benefits that these Greeks, Portuguese, Italians, Spanish and Americans received from all this spending! And it didn’t cost them a dime to receive all these benefits. They got it all for free! Who pays for it? Well society pays for it. Trust me - I’m a socialist I know what I’m talking about.
In a time of universal fraud, sanctioned by 95% of the electorate who vote for the corrupt status quo, possession is 9/10th of the law.
Happy birthday, rainbow country!
Thank you for remembering!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxnsmRl8×14&list=RDWxnsmRl8×14#t=2
“America,” by the KBC Band. An oldie but a goodie.
Independence Day for Dummies (’Murica!)
http://www.theburningplatform.com/2015/07/04/pictorial-essay-independence-day-for-dummies/
Will this be American Boomers, who intended to be long gone by the time the Financial Reckoning Day for their generational fecklessness comes around, but find the consequences of the messes they’ve created for subsequent generations are being visited upon them, too?
http://news.yahoo.com/crying-greek-pensioner-story-behind-poignant-photo-003339650.html
Yes. That looks like me twelve years from now outside the Social Security Administration office.
I’m pretty sure there won’t be a social security office twelve years from now. You’ll just get a letter from Goldman Sachs, your retirement fund trustee, informing you that your account has been Corzined and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it.
I could see things go this way if a Republicrat president manages to privatize Social Security in exchange for massive financial rewards paid for by Wall Street supporters.
Right now it’s a given. But this is what ‘Muricans are voting for with their support to HillaryJeb and other Wall Street water carriers.
While ‘Muricans will almost certainly bend over and grab their ankles for the Oligopoly by voting for HillaryJeb, once again they had better alternatives to choose from, but in their gross stupidity voted for more of the same.
http://news.yahoo.com/james-webb-war-hero-former-us-senator-presidential-143204485.html
“But, but I will waste my vote if I don’t for the lessor of the two evils”
Your right, Raymond, you can’t fix stupid amongst the voters.
No, and there’s precious little you can do to protect yourself against votes cast by millions of stupid people.
It looks like the intelligent portion of the population - the tiniest minority of all - are flocking into the safe haven of precious metals (the physical kind, not the make-believe paper gold traded on the COMEX).
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-03/gold-bullion-dealer-unexpectedly-suspends-operations-due-significant-transactional-d
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the U.S. Mint reports a 100% surge in its gold and silver sales.
I love the clinking sound of quarter ounce eagles.
Back on regarding Chase Bank closing accounts for no identifiable reason-
I hardly think the whole “Know Your Customer or AML (anti money laundering)” applies to me, like I said, I banked at Chase for 30 plus years with very little change in my banking habits over that time. All the tellers have seen all my ID over the years. Yes, some cash deposits (completely legit from rental income), but not huge dollars. Question for ibbots - how long did it take for your clients to get their money? I am going on 15 days after being told in the letter it would take 10 days. While I did learn from my Google search that banks can legally close an account for no reason, I have a little trouble with closing accounts and holding the money for an indeterminate amount of time. At what point does it become theft or conversion? This is seriously messed up.
I don’t have such experience. But I think you will get your money. And after that of course you go to a new bank or credit union and never go back to the other one again. It’s your money and you should not be treated like they are treating you.
Greece’s financial reckoning day slouches forward….
http://wolfstreet.com/2015/07/03/the-biggest-greek-banks-have-failed-and-resolving-them-wont-work-fitch/
While The Donald is kind of a douche, his blunt comments and refusal to grovel before the Commisars of Political Correctness have definitely struck a chord with Americans, propelling his polling numbers past those of Wall Street errand boys and so-faux “conservatives” Walker & Cruz.
http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-wild-week-2015-7
Thanks for reminding me, I wanted to wish the HBB, on this summer consumerist holiday, a Happeeee 4th of July.
Rejoice! Because Macy’s, one of America’s retail giants, rooted out a blasphemer against the corporate state religion of diversity and purged the evil at the source of their declining profits, striking a blow for…whaaat? Oh, my:
http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-kors-cited-for-macys-downgrade-2015-6
Michael Kors? MICHAEL KORS?????? Heresy! He’s gay. NTTAWWT.
Forward!
And, I know this is getting boring, but it has to be said:
McDonald’s. I’m lovin’ it.
Happy 4th palmo! Later today we will have fun taking swings at a Trump pinata, LOL
https://twitter.com/dalton_cjon/status/611927016552574976/photo/1
Sorry, I don’t do Titter.
“Later today we will have fun taking swings at a Trump pinata, LOL”
And you have the manpower to do it.
Murderers, Rapists, Kidnappers: Over 36,000 Criminal Illegal Immigrants Released In 2013
Chuck Ross
Reporter
11:32 AM 05/12/2015
Nearly 200 murderers, over 400 rapists, and 300 kidnappers in the U.S. illegally were released by Immigration and Customs Enforcement while awaiting deportation proceedings, according to a new report from the Center for Immigration Studies.
A total of 36,007 criminal illegal immigrants that were being processed for deportation were freed in 2013. Together, they committed nearly 88,000 crimes, according to the report, published Monday.
“I was astonished at not only the huge number of convicted criminals who were freed from ICE custody last year – an average of almost 100 a day — but also at the large number of very serious crimes they had committed,” said Jessica Vaughan, the director of policy studies at the Center for Immigration Studies, in a statement.
ICE gathered the statistics — which include a breakdown by crime — in response to congressional inquiry following another report released earlier this year by the Center of Immigration Studies.
That report, which was based on internal Department of Homeland Security documents, showed that ICE encountered over 193,000 illegal immigrant convicts. Charging documents were issued for 125,000, and nearly 68,000 were released.
That review also found that 870,000 illegal immigrants had been removed from ICE dockets despite being in defiance of the law. The number of illegal aliens targeted for deportation fell 28 percent between 2012 and 2013, according to the documents.
The 36,007 illegal immigrants reported Monday were freed by ICE during the final disposition of their cases. The 68,000 from the previous report were criminals who encountered ICE agents — often in jails — but were released without undergoing deportation proceedings.
The 36,007 were released by bond, parole, unsupervised release, or on their own recognizance.
Besides violent criminals, ICE released nearly 16,000 illegal immigrants convicted of driving under the influence. The report also shows that ICE released nearly 2,700 illegal immigrants convicted of assault, 1,300 convicted for domestic violence, and nearly 1,300 convicted for battery.
“These figures call into question President Obama’s request to Congress for permission to reduce immigration detention capacity by 10 percent in favor of permission to make wider use of experimental alternatives to detention,” reads the report.
In June 2011, the administration began applying “prosecutorial discretion” to many deportation cases. This has led to a 40 percent decrease in the number of deportations.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/12/murderers-rapists-kidnappers-over-36000-criminal-illegal-immigrants-released-in-2013/#ixzz3ewZ5M21b
I was living in Apollo Beach back when three of these genetic mishaps did a mobile gang-rape on two very unfortunate women.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/apollo-beach-rape-case-began-with-a-scream-in-an-alley/1147507
Rigoberto Moron (real name), one of the perps, already had a child by some young sow over in Ruskin. The media, of course, went to pains not to reveal the sow’s location. But she wanted everyone to know that he was a good father. Naturally, the taxpayer supports the sow and the offspring to this day.
Got MS13?
Uh oh, we are going to be 121 short at the pinata party.
121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration
By Stephen Dinan - The Washington Times - Monday, June 15, 2015
More than 100 immigrants whom the Obama administration released back into the community went on to be charged with subsequent killings, according to government data released Monday that raises more questions about whether immigration authorities are doing enough to detail illegal immigrants awaiting deportation.
In one case, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement acknowledged that its agents didn’t find out about an illegal immigrant’s death threats and court injunctions against him — which should have put him back in detention — until after the man was accused of murder.
That case, involving Apolinar Altamirano, is the latest instance of someone who went through the Obama administration’s deportation system and was released, only to go on to be charged with major crimes.
Critics who have been pushing for stiffer immigration enforcement said the violence rate for released immigrants is probably much higher and the 121 charged are only those who have been caught.
“Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime,” said Maria Espinoza, co-founder of the Remembrance Project, which advocates for victims of crimes committed by immigrants. “This further supports what we have been fighting for. The safety and welfare of Americans must be the priority of the administration and the Republican-led Congress.”
Don Rosenberg, whose son was killed in a traffic accident by an illegal immigrant driving without a license, said the government lacks the willpower to deport people and to do it quickly.
“These people can and should be deported. We have that option, and we don’t want to take it, and this is what happens,” he said. “I guess until somebody who has the responsibility to make these decisions has one of their loved ones killed, it’s going to continue to happen.”
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jun/15/121-murders-attributed-illegal-immigrants-released/#ixzz3ewe4peFa
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
Interesting snippet from the Michael Kors article:
“Trussell also cited concerns about declining revenue from tourists, as well as a major shift in discretionary spending from products (like clothing) to experiences and technology.”
There’s a chart that shows that shift in spending over the last 8 years.
That’s probably the real truth of the matter, and in fact it kind of stinks that the author would trash the Kors brand just for an attention grabber.
No doubt about it, Kors is overexposed. I picked up one of his sport shirts at an estate sale for a buck, probably would have cost $45.00 retail. Maybe more. It was a poor attempt to copy the old LaCoste sport shirts, which were classics. The material was thin and cheesy. I ended up using it for a rag. He shoulda stuck to women’s clothing and handbags, the men’s stuff is an afterthought and meant to appeal to metrosexuals.
Kors is big on the secondary online previously owned market.
Man arrested in connection with San Francisco killing had been deported several times, officials say
by Judson Burger | Fox News | July 4, 2015
The man arrested in connection with the seemingly random killing of a woman who was out for a stroll with her father along the San Francisco waterfront is an illegal immigrant who previously had been deported five times, federal immigration officials say.
Further, Immigration and Customs Enforcement says San Francisco had him in their custody earlier this year but failed to notify ICE when he was released.
“DHS records indicate ICE lodged an immigration detainer on the subject at that time, requesting notification prior to his release so ICE officers could make arrangements to take custody. The detainer was not honored,” ICE said in a statement Friday afternoon.
Kathryn Steinle was killed Wednesday evening at Pier 14 — one of the busiest tourist destinations in the city.
Police said Thursday they arrested Francisco Sanchez in the shooting an hour after it occurred.
“She just kept saying, ‘Dad, help me, help me,’”
Man arrested in connection with San Francisco killing had been deported several times, officials say
by Judson Burger | Fox News | July 4, 2015
“His criminal history includes seven prior felony convictions, four involving narcotics charges,” ICE said in a statement.
ICE briefly had him in their custody in March after he had served his latest sentence for “felony re-entry,” but turned him over to San Francisco Sheriff’s Department on an outstanding drug warrant. At this time, ICE issued the detainer — effectively asking that he be turned back over to ICE when San Francisco was finished with him.
But ICE was not notified. The incident is sure to renew criticism of San Francisco’s sanctuary city policies.
“Here’s a jurisdiction that’s not even honoring our detainer for someone who clearly is an egregious offender,” an ICE official told FoxNews.com.
ICE has since lodged another immigration detainer against the individual, though it’s unclear whether San Francisco will cooperate.
An attorney for the San Francisco Sheriff’s Department told the Associated Press it had no authority to honor the prior immigration hold when it released the suspect.
Freya Horne said Friday that federal detention orders are not a “legal basis” to hold someone, so Francisco Sanchez was released April 15.
Police Sgt. Michael Andraychak earlier said witnesses snapped photos of Sanchez immediately after Wednesday’s shooting and the images helped police make the arrest.
Liz Sullivan told the San Francisco Chronicle that her 32-year-old daughter turned to her father after she was shot and said she didn’t feel well before collapsing.
“She just kept saying, ‘Dad, help me, help me,’” Sullivan said. Her father reportedly tried to do CPR before she was rushed to the hospital.
The immigration detainer issued against the suspect earlier this year would have initiated the process of removing him from the U.S. once again.
“ICE places detainers on aliens arrested on criminal charges to ensure dangerous criminals are not released from prisons or jails into our communities,” ICE said in the statement. “The agency remains committed to working collaboratively with its law enforcement partners to ensure the public’s safety.”
http://www.foxnews.com/…/ - 309k -
Dear HBB’ers: handle change. I’ve grown tired of “WPA” and have decided to adopt something more up to date.
careful. “Trickle Up” is capitalism, not statism. Statism is corporatism.
I’ve never heard “trickle up” to be capitalism — in current usage, “trickle up” means demand side vs supply side, in the sense that Krugman uses it
http://www.salon.com/2014/08/08/paul_krugman_its_time_for_trickle_up_economics/
Krugman style is banksters. In capitalism, there is no limited liability for corporations. Corporations would be responsible for their own actions. The playing field between small business and big business would be even because there would be no government to pass laws for special favors. Capitalism is anarchism.
Crony capitalist’s “trickle on” economics is believing the kleptocrats when they tell you that’s rain you’re feeling.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-04/paul-craig-roberts-sundays-vote-will-determine-liberty-or-serfdom
yes Mr. Craig Roberts, but Democracy is not mucking fuch to begin with. No more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for lunch.
A “Yes” vote in Greece’s Sunday referenum is a given. Why? Women are 50% of the electorate. Women will ALWAYS vote for security over uncertainty, even if a “Yes” vote guarantees de facto serfdom.
Since 70% of Greeks want to stay in the Euro it should be a yes vote. That is not a prediction just reality. The leftist government has and continues to lie to the people that they can stay in the Euro zone and not accept austerity. However that has never been a possibility. It is better Euro zone for them to make an example of Greece than have the same fight with Spain.
Revealed! Climate change caused Bruce to become Caitlyn! It’s only natural…
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150704082402.htm
+1
Even with the El Nino getting stronger it is a pretty flat graph for the last 20 years, we were sure a lot warmer in 1998, at the time we were told that AGW was making El Ninos stronger and stronger:
http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqD68JHELHs - 329k - Cached - Similar pages
May 17, 2015
Health Insurance Companies Seek Big Rate Increases for 2016
“Rate increases will be bigger in 2016 than they have been for years and years…”
by Robert Pear | New York Times | July 4, 2015
Health insurance companies around the country are seeking rate increases of 20 percent to 40 percent or more, saying their new customers under the Affordable Care Act turned out to be sicker than expected. Federal officials say they are determined to see that the requests are scaled back.
Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans — market leaders in many states — are seeking rate increases that average 23 percent in Illinois, 25 percent in North Carolina, 31 percent in Oklahoma, 36 percent in Tennessee and 54 percent in Minnesota, according to documents posted online by the federal government and state insurance commissioners and interviews with insurance executives.
The Oregon insurance commissioner, Laura N. Cali, has just approved 2016 rate increases for companies that cover more than 220,000 people. Moda Health Plan, which has the largest enrollment in the state, received a 25 percent increase, and the second-largest plan, LifeWise, received a 33 percent increase.
In 2008, America lost its last, best hope to avert the coming collapse when 95% of the electorate voted, sheep-like, for the oligarchy’s water carriers, Obama and McCain. Now, once again, the populace has to make a choice: bend over for a predatory neoliberal oligopoly by voting for HillaryJeb, or refusing to go quietly into that long goodnight by defying the status quo. One hopeful sign is that more and more people are starting to wake up, despite their MSM brainwashing, and resist the crony capitalist capture of our political and financial systems, even if it means voting for an avowed “Democratic socialist” like Bernie Sanders over the evil, mendacious, oligarch-annointed Hillary Clinton.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/07/03/sanders-draws-more-than-2500-to-iowa-stop-tops-for-this-presidential-cycle-so-far/
Among the enthusiastic supporters who turned out was William Pugh, a retired journalist and teacher who lives across the river in Omaha.
“He’s the only truth-speaker out there,” Pugh, 62, said of Sanders. “He calls the system for what it is. It’s broken, it’s corrupt, and it’s an oligarchy. … If he’s not electable, there’s no hope for this country
I guess Bernie Sanders (socialist) is unfortunately our only hope. Not sure. But I know Rand Paul is certainly no Ron Paul. Not even half as good.
I’ve sent checks to Jim Webb (first time I’ve ever send a donation to a Democrat) and Rand Paul. Rand is no Ron, and his endorsement of Mitt Romney was a huge betrayal, but he’s the closest thing to an actual Republican in the race, as opposed to the oligarch-backed faux conservatives and Wall Street errand boys like Walker, Rubio, and those other clowns.
I think it was PBear a while back talking about Panama and all that is unfolding there economically.
Hear are a couple of interesting and brief articles on what is happening in the Canal Zone and why it is that we Murkins continue to fall further behind the developing set. There is ALOT more going on down there.
The super max tankers and ultra large container ships soon to be heading through the canal are spurring peripheral infrastructure development there. I say stay tuned to Central America.
Happy Independence Day to you all!!!
Keep the faith - gonna get worse before it gets better.
http://panamaadvisoryinternationalgroup.com/blog/news-from-panama/puerto-armuelles-cargo-or-cruises/
http://panamaadvisoryinternationalgroup.com/blog/news-from-panama/tender-port-terminal-concession-for-53-million/
Comment by Combotechie
2015-07-04 08:02:38
I remember reading of workers laughing at the demise of the Wall Streeters after the 1929 stock market crash, laughing until the stock market crash worked its way through the economy to the point whereby they, the workers, got laid off from their jobs.
It turned out for many that the prosperity of the stock market - the “wealth” generated by rising stock prices - translated into employment for the workers, so when the wealth was yanked away the jobs that depended on this wealth vanished soon thereafter.
Combo…..+1 on this
I can only think of the affect on worker pension programs nationwide.
In my backyard here In ILLANNOY they are still to this day in the face of all that has gone on - still modeling 8% returns on invested dollars.
Result - what the Chicago Teacher Union experienced as a result of Chicago finance malfeasance - a 639 million dollar payout to pensions and 1400 people cut as a result.
I noted a few days ago that eventually OPM runs out and haircuts, firings and misery result.
The beatings will continue until moral improves!!!
It turned out for many that the prosperity of the stock market - the “wealth” generated by rising stock prices - translated into employment for the workers, so when the wealth was yanked away the jobs that depended on this wealth vanished soon thereafter.
I read Combo’s post too late to reply yesterday…
But it reminded me that I still have significant questions in my mind the transmission mechanisms involved in the stock market crash affecting the “real” economy.
Part of it was likely that the “easy money” (and associated margin debt) from the stock market was washing through the rest of the economy; but the portion that was illusory or debt-fueled _should_ have vanished—the effects of removing this removed the mal-investment portion of the economy. Similarly with the wealth effects.
Were there other transmissions mechanisms at work, though?
Montreal (AFP) - The Canadian economy is likely headed for recession, two major banks said Thursday, predicting a successive contraction in the second quarter.
Canada, the world’s fifth-biggest oil producer, has been hard hit by tumbling global oil prices and its economy shrank 0.6 percent at an annualized rate in the first quarter.
A recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of contraction.
Nomura bank said it expected the Gross Domestic Product to contract by 0.5 percent in the second quarter, while Bank of America Merrill Lynch said a 0.6 percent decline in that period was likely.
“The economy has surprised to the downside this year and appears to have entered a recession in 1H 2015, even after policy easing in January,” Bank of America economist Emanuella Enenajor said.
Nomura’s Charles St-Arnaud said the dip was not just the result of forest fires in Alberta that forced the temporary closure of two facilities that account for 10 percent of the oil sands’ output.
“The Canadian economy is likely in recession,” he said.
Feds ‘lose’ audits for Fort Knox Gold
by IWB · July 3, 2015
The blog, goldseek.com, recently published a report on a Freedom of Information Act request they recently filed with the US government. They were seeking seven reports from federal audits of the gold at Fort Knox. The government’s response? They can’t find those reports – even though they reference those reports as evidence of the gold stored at Fort Knox in a number of ways. The Resident discusses. Follow The Resident at http://www.twitter.com/TheResident
Read more at http://investmentwatchblog.com/feds-lose-audits-for-fort-knox-gold/#EbpgmHrpqXLxWvte.99
The reports are with the gold, and we don’t know where that is.
Hey, Baby, it’s the 4th of July!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_tyWt_9Bfs
phony scandals