October 2, 2015

What Was A Blessing Is Now A Curse

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “They said it’d be different this time, but it appears that Houston real estate is at a tipping point. The oil price crash is just beginning to be felt in the market. John Byerly has been selling real estate for more than four decades, and he’s well aware that in Houston, as goes the price of oil, so goes the housing market. ‘As long as (oil) stays at $100 a barrel, no problem. People are just spending money like there’s no tomorrow,’ Byerly said. ‘When it gets down to $35, $40 dollars a barrel, welcome back to the real world.’”

“Softness in 2015, said Mark Livingston, president of the Central Oklahoma Home Builders Association, stems from weather setbacks last winter, a persistent shortage of buildable lots and ‘the white elephant in the room’ - the wheezing oil and gas business. ‘Although I don’t think we’ve seen a huge impact yet in housing, it’s certainly on everybody’s mind,’ he said.”

“In Edmond, Brian Preston, an agent with RE/MAX Associates, cautioned that a 19-percent hike in active listings, with sales and pending sales (houses under contract) both flat, could take away some seller sway in the marketplace. ‘We are on track for another record year, but sellers will have to watch what they are asking for their house with more competition out there for them. Pending contracts are still good, but more house will be sitting with the new inventory,’ Preston said.”

“The Calgary Real Estate Board recorded 1,448 sales in September, a decline of 32.4 per cent from a year ago. The average sale price was $457,658, down nearly six per cent and the biggest year-over-year drop this year. Phil Soper,chief executive of Royal LePage said people still believe in the Calgary market and that this is a temporary shift rather than a permanent reset of property values. Unless they are distressed sellers, having to sell, people are taking their houses off the market or not listing their properties, he said. ‘Until we see the number of listings starting to climb, I think prices will be protected in the marketplace. People simply won’t be willing to let their properties go with what they perceive as a distressed pricing level,’ said Soper.”

“The median sale price for September was flat at $425,000. New listings were down 4.9 per cent to 3,081, while active listings were 21.2 per cent higher, at 5,526.”

“House prices in Dubai fell by nearly 10 per cent on an annual basis in August, prompting brokers to revise their full year forecasts. Average house values in Dubai have been sinking since the start of the year, when the property broker JLL predicted that prices would fall by about a tenth. Since then the broker has revised its forecast for the full year, expecting average house price falls of around 15 per cent for 2015. ‘The volume of sales has fallen by more than we expected,’ said Craig Plumb, the head of research in JLL’s Dubai office. ‘There is still no sign of a pickup in activity in the market place and so the falls have been more than we anticipated.’”

“He added that he expected prices to continue to fall next year.”

“Moves to take the heat out of Auckland’s housing market appear to be having an effect - and the Chinese could be the first to turn away. ‘None are running scared and no-one has any stories of properties being sold. But some deals have been walked away from and the buyers are seeing too many little roadblocks being put in their way. None by themselves are deal killers - but the gestalt is becoming compelling,’ said Economist Tony Alexander of the BNZ.”

“But local highly geared investors were also being deterred. ‘It is not just offshore Chinese backing away from Auckland at the moment. Inexperienced, undercapitalised people who were entering the housing market from early this year feeling that they had to buy any old piece of crap to avoid missing out on ‘easy’ money have also backed away - thank goodness. The figures do not show this yet, but they probably will before the end of the year,’ he predicted.”

“The property market in Sydney’s west has slumped dramatically, signalling looming problems for investors who were hoping to capitalise on price growth. Instead, prices in the west have slipped by 7.3 per cent over the month of September and the auction clearance rate has hit a dismal 56.4 per cent – a massive drop from Sydney’s record rate of nearly 90 per cent in May. Latest Domain Group figures show the median auction price in western Sydney has fallen from $841,000 in August this year, to $779,000 in September, a drop of 7.3 per cent.”

“Shane Oliver, chief economist of AMP Capital Investors, said investors in the west could now be facing a tough time. ‘With rental yields so low, investors are dependent on capital growth for a decent return,’ he says. ‘Now with prices down, and future investor activity curtailed by the APRA actions making it harder for investors to borrow money, it will be even harder for those investors already in the market.’”

“‘What was a blessing before is now a curse.’ That’s how Standard & Poor’s describes the impact of China’s now slowing economy on Australia and other commodity exporters. In a week in which about $60 billion was wiped off the ASX in just one frantic session on worries about the Chinese outlook and what it means for the mining sector, S&P chief economist for the Asia-Pacific Paul Gruenwald has declared Australia the ‘clear loser’. That’s because of it being a large commodity-focused exporter and its strong trade links with China, its number one trading partner.”

“Overlooking London’s most famous park, nestled next to the opulent Mandarin Oriental Hotel in Knightsbridge, is the world’s priciest block of flats: One Hyde Park. And One Hyde Park is sending a message that London’s prime market is deflating: several flats are for sale. Ten, in fact, seven publicly listed and three private, ranging in price from £5.5m to £75m €101.5m, $113.4). It was highlighted by the Financial Times. As the property expert and home-buying agent Henry Pryor put it on Twitter: ‘Are the rich checking out?’”

“Some sellers have withdrawn. Others, who have been forced to sell for reasons such as debt and divorce, are having to drop their asking prices to attract buyers. ‘Whether these particular sales in One Hyde Park give us a clue to the thinking of those at the very top end of the housing ladder, I don’t often find that buyers for this type of property have quite so much choice,’ Pryor said. ‘So whether it indicates that they are already hoping to head to the exit ahead of demonstrably falling house prices remains to be seen. But it is the proverbial canary in the coal mine, I think.’”

“The movie ‘99 Homes‘ is making its way into a limited number of theaters this week. The premise of the movie is this: A man loses his job, gets his house foreclosed on, moves his family into a motel, and then lands a job working for the ‘very ruthless’ real estate investor that evicted him. He then goes about helping cheat banks and evicting other people all in a bid to get enough money to move his family back into their foreclosed home.”

“The truth, of course, is stranger than fiction. For starters unless the character the man plays is a slow learner, by the time the foreclosure crisis was in full swing most people figured out it would take between six to 18 months before the bank you stopped making payments to kicked you out of your home. By that time you’ve saved enough money to buy a luxury car.”

“To sell tickets, you’ve got to jazz up the story line. So in case anyone has short-term memory issues, let’s recap what happened: People were buying more home than they could afford. Buyers were lying on - or at the very least not reading - loan documents that stated their alleged income. Unscrupulous young Turks were taking short cuts on approving loans. Flippers - from professionals to doting grandparents eager to raise enough cash to send four grandkids to Stanford University - leveraged their homes and investments in a bid to get rich quick.”

“People were buying homes with little skin in the game making it easy for them to stop making payments when the financial seas got a little rough. Opportunists saddled with higher payments on an expensive home they could still afford to make payments on, bought a second home. After they signed on the dotted line for a bigger home with a lower monthly payment they stopped making payments on their first house. In most cases they could afford to make both payments but didn’t think it was fair to expect them to do so since home values dropped.”

“High level financial institution executives looked the other way even when they were told of loan improprieties. The banks, once they realized they were saddled with questionable loans, then started slicing and dicing them among each other to spread the risk. In some cases as many as six different banks would own interest in one home loan. Buyers would leverage homes by taking low introductory rates for three years or so that would then have a balloon payment and jump to the higher rates. They did it knowing they couldn’t make higher mortgage payments down the road let alone a balloon payment. They said they were investors but they were actually gambling values would go up.”

“Congress crafted ‘profit’ tax forgiveness on home loans buyers walked away from without requiring any kind of test on financial stress. That meant a number of buyers that weren’t in trouble gamed the system by walking away from homes that had dropped in value without suffering a dime in tax consequences. Including such tidbits gets in the way of the storyline.”

“To bring what really happened to the screen - the fact ‘victims’ played a large role in their demise as homeowners - wouldn’t sell very many tickets. The popular sentiment is the greed of Wall Street drove the housing crisis. The truth is it took a lot of little guys looking the other way, being complacent with erroneous financial information on final loan documents because they wanted a house, swallowing more house than their financial stomach could handle, and they wanted to get rich quick.”




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95 Comments »

Comment by Mugsy
2015-10-02 03:54:13

“The property market in Sydney’s west has slumped dramatically, signalling looming problems for investors who were hoping to capitalise on price growth. Instead, prices in the west have slipped by 7.3 per cent over the month of September and the auction clearance rate has hit a dismal 56.4 per cent – a massive drop from Sydney’s record rate of nearly 90 per cent in May.”

Wow. The “Oh Sh!t” moment may have been reached in New South Wales. Good on ya’ maties!

Comment by CHE
2015-10-02 12:16:24

And my friend who moved from California to Sydney with no job a couple years ago FINALLY got a job…as a mortgage broker. Just in time!!!

Comment by rms
2015-10-02 17:15:18

Time to celebrate with a 64-oz beer, mate!

 
 
 
Comment by taxpayers
2015-10-02 04:20:52

you would think even buying in an oil state would make you cautious when oil went under $70.
What % of tax revenue comes from RE taxes in TX & OK ?
allot
less oil rev= higher re taxes

Comment by Combotechie
2015-10-02 05:24:27

“less oil rev= higher re taxes”

But if the state’s economy - and thus its housing market - is dependent on oil revenue then the state’s tax man will suffer several whammys:

Whammy number 1: Less tax income received from the sale of oil, and …

Whammy number 2: Less RE tax income due to falling RE values, and …

Whammy number 3: Less personal income tax income due to rising unemployment, and

Whammy number 4: Less retail sales tax income as a result of whammy number 3.

Comment by Blue Skye
2015-10-02 05:42:59

I believe that less RE tax is what led to the Sales Tax in the Great Depression.

 
Comment by taxpayers
2015-10-02 05:54:11

Gov workers get pay n pension no matter,so ‘re taxes going up
Big in tx

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-10-02 06:11:49

Which simply crushes demand even further.

Until prices fall, it’s nothing but collapsing demand.

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Comment by In Colorado
2015-10-02 09:56:39

so ‘re taxes going up
Big in tx

In Texas? That’s unpossible!

Got TABOR?

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Comment by In Colorado
2015-10-02 09:59:52

One of the beauties of TABOR is that when tax revenue falls below the TABOR ceiling on a given year it becomes the new baseline, the new ceiling that can only expanded to match inflation and population growth.

And during those “tough times” our little burg had layoffs.

 
Comment by CHE
2015-10-02 12:20:33

Great!

Homeowners slashin’ and the government should too….

 
 
Comment by Skroodle
2015-10-02 20:56:57

Texas legislature doesn’t meet again until 2017. So it would be 2 years before any taxes go up.

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Comment by taxpayers
2015-10-02 04:44:04

Japan’s latest Keynesian craze fails
they always do ,but the process give pols more power

 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2015-10-02 04:44:34

37,449 nearby properties found Houston, TX Real Estate and Homes for Sale

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Houston_TX?ml=4

10,898 nearby properties found Houston, TX Price Reduced Homes for Sale

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Houston_TX/show-price-reduced?ml=4

28% of all sellers and reduced prices at least once

 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2015-10-02 05:30:11

Aurora, CO Housing Prices Plummet 23% YoY; Inventory Skyrockets 178%

http://www.movoto.com/aurora-co/market-trends/

Comment by Goon
2015-10-02 13:36:54

Aurora is the Inland Empire of metro Denver, no extra charge for the tumbleweeds.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2015-10-02 05:37:47

‘When it gets down to $35, $40 dollars a barrel, welcome back to the real world.’

How long until oil dips below $35 a barrel?

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-10-02 05:45:18

Will the Chinese government ever reach the point where margin calls on the massive debt it owes the world force it to sell its commodities hoard to raise cash?

Comment by In Colorado
2015-10-02 10:01:51

Don’t they own a boatload of US Treasuries? I would think those would be easier and more profitable to unload, unless of course they’re saving them for the ultimate rainy day.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2015-10-02 05:48:28

China is hoarding the world’s oil
Bloomberg
September 19, 2015
Last Updated at 21:17 IST

Even after China’s slowing economy dragged crude to a six-year low, oil’s second-biggest consumer remains the main safeguard against a further price meltdown.

While China’s surprise currency devaluation helped trigger Brent crude’s slump to about $42 a barrel last month, the nation’s stockpiling of oil can staunch further losses.

In the first seven months of the year, China purchased about half a million barrels of crude in excess of its daily needs, the most for the period since 2012, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. As the country gathers bargain barrels for its strategic petroleum reserve, the demand is cushioning an oversupplied market from a further crash, according to Columbia University’s Center on Global Energy Policy.

“It throws a lifeline to the market” that safeguards against the risk of crude touching $20 a barrel,” Jeff Currie, head of commodities research at Goldman Sachs Group in New York, said by phone. “That lifeline lasts through late 2016.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-10-02 05:55:54

“That lifeline lasts through late 2016.”

Does this mean you should hold on to your cash today if you want the chance to buy the dip on oil below $20/bbl when China dumps its hoard in late 2016?

Comment by Blue Skye
2015-10-02 06:26:45

Everything China stockpiles goes down after they stop stockpiling.

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Comment by In Colorado
2015-10-02 10:03:32

So now instead of building ghost cities, are they building storage for all this surplus oil?

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2015-10-02 05:38:47

How would losing your shirt in the Chinese stock market make you more inclined to invest in luxury real estate in Canada? Makes absolutely zero sense…

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-10-02 05:40:10

Chinese Investors Will Flock To Canadian Luxury Real Estate This Fall: Sotheby’s
CP | By Alexandra Posadzki, The Canadian Press
Posted: 09/16/2015 9:51 am EDT Updated: 09/17/2015 1:59 pm EDT
CANADA LUXURY HOME

TORONTO — Sotheby’s International Realty Canada says turbulence on the Chinese stock market could send buyers from mainland China flocking to Canadian luxury real estate this fall.

The realtor predicts that sales of homes worth over $1 million will rise in Toronto and Vancouver, while Montreal’s luxury market should be balanced and Calgary’s will slow due to the effects of declining crude prices.

Sotheby’s says sales gains are expected to be highest in the over $4 million category in the Toronto and Vancouver areas this fall, although higher sales volumes are expected in the $1-million to $4-million range, as well.

The realtor lists increased demand from international investors alongside limited inventory, historically low interest rates and heightened consumer confidence as the factors expected to fuel sales growth in Canada’s two hottest real estate markets.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2015-10-02 05:42:51

Wouldn’t a devalued currency plus a collapsed stock market make it less likely to see further Chinese real estate investment in North America?

Chinese currency devaluation makes it more costly for Chinese investors to buy US homes

Yuan devaluation could weigh on Chinese buyers of US homes
By ALEX VEIGA | Associated Press | Sep 18, 2015 11:25 AM CDT in Money, Lifestyle

As China’s wealthy have grown more prosperous, many have carved out a premium slice of the American Dream.

Chinese investors are now second only to Canadians in terms of the number of U.S. homes they buy. And they outspend all other countries in the process, favoring higher-end homes or properties in pricier markets like San Francisco, New York and Los Angeles.

But China’s recent move to devaluate its currency’s value relative to the dollar means Chinese real estate investors will have to fork over more money to buy a home in the U.S.

 
Comment by scdave
2015-10-02 07:04:09

Makes absolutely zero sense… ??

Makes complete sense particularly if you are a very wealthy Chinese… Place the asset somewhere it appears safer & diversified…

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-10-02 07:13:57

I suppose. They seem dumb enough to believe a depreciating asset like a house is ’safe’.

Comment by redmondjp
2015-10-02 12:11:01

Even if they lose half their value, they still keep the other half.

That beats losing all of it. This seems to be a hard concept for people stateside to grasp.

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Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-10-02 17:46:58

50% losses on a depreciating asset like a house is typical.

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2015-10-02 07:45:29

‘Place the asset’

It really is like ground-hog day around here. No matter how many direct, official reports of money laundering I find, posters fall back on “these Chinese really like our shacks!”

Why not gold or stocks or a Swiss bank account? Because the laws are not only tilted to allowing money laundering in real estate, they downright encourage it. In the US (and Canada up until recently) you can even get a visa! Money laundering in London; official. Same with Canada, Australia and New Zealand. All have housing bubbles. This criminal activity is worse than speculation; they don’t care what they pay. Just move the money. Yesterday:

‘The city of San Gabriel last month became the latest in the region to begin to investigate solutions to the problems of mansionization in the region, and good for it…But City Hall also doesn’t shy away from discussing ‘Overseas investors: This last group is one that seems to be increasing in recent years. The principal source of this foreign investment, though not the only one, appears to be mainland China. … In one case, the overseas investor will purchase a single-family home and leave it vacant, sometimes for years, hoping to cash in passively on the expected appreciation in home values over time. … this trend can lead to, at best, homes that sit silently in an otherwise lively neighborhood or, at worst, derelict properties in which maintenance becomes an ongoing code enforcement issue.’

I’ve got links saved reporting officials saying hundreds of millions of dollars coming from one money launder into Vancouver, and they just pay a small fine and get to keep the money! Official reports that many billion$ every year are flushed through London alone. The governments and media may turn a blind eye to this, but I can see that prices have been seriously and artificially elevated. These $100 million condos in London, Manhattan and Miami have no purpose but money laundering. It’ll be a sh#t-storm sorting this all out.

Comment by scdave
2015-10-02 08:08:38

I suggested many years ago that money laundering was a big driver in what we see happening in the US and around the world…I think Polly tried to correct me suggesting that it was difficult to lauder money through real estate transactions and I strongly disagreed…In fact, there are many ways to get it done….

Is it distorting real estate valuations in some markets ?? You betcha…But its not just real estate…How much “hot money” is going into lets say German Bunds ?? Bund’s that produce a negative rate of return I might add…If you got a billion of hot money and you get 750-mil back in clean money ins’t that a pretty good deal ??

Now I suggested a billion….What if its 100-mil ??…..What if its just 1-mil ??…..Same thing applies…How do I get it out of China and into some other asset where it can be washed & rinsed…

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Comment by Ben Jones
2015-10-02 08:18:08

‘Money is leaving China faster than ever, according to a Bloomberg gauge tracking capital flows. An estimated $141.66 billion left China in August, exceeding the previous record of $124.62 billion in July, data compiled by Bloomberg show.’

‘The capital flight came as the People’s Bank of China shocked global markets by devaluing the yuan Aug. 11, triggering a worldwide drop in commodities, equities and emerging-market currencies.’

“My worry is that, given the relatively large economic downward pressure, as China is opening up the capital account, it means more money will leave China,” Huang Yiping, a PBOC adviser and Peking University economics professor, said on a World Economic Forum panel discussion this month in Dalian, China. “If there’s an overall capital outflow in the future, it will bring depreciation pressure.”

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2015-10-02 08:22:18

Here’s some search results:

Capital flight darkens economic prospects for emerging markets
Financial Times-17 hours ago
Emerging markets will suffer a net outflow of capital this year for the first … the prospects for leading emerging economies including China and …
Global investors brace for China crash, says IIF
The Guardian-20 hours ago
Is this the mother of all warnings on EMs?
CNBC-15 hours ago
Emerging markets set to register first capital outflows since 1988 in …
DIGITALLOOK-7 hours ago
Emerging markets to see net capital outflow in 27 years: report
Highly Cited-Xinhua-5 hours ago
Emerging-Market Exodus Gains Steam
In-Depth-Wall Street Journal-22 hours ago

 
Comment by scdave
2015-10-02 08:25:40

it means more money will leave China ??

Thats just China….What about others…Brazil…South American countries…Greece….Italy…Russia…Etc…betcha there is a lot of dirty money in those places also…

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2015-10-02 08:29:38

Jack McCabe told me on the podcast that a lot of what’s going into south Florida is South American money-laundering. The currency dive has thrown a wet blanket on that. Same with Russians in Dubai, London and Thailand.

 
Comment by scdave
2015-10-02 08:38:24

The currency dive has thrown a wet blanket on that ??

Or maybe in some cases accelerated it…Losing value on your currency that fast makes you want to move it somewhere else…Greece had to put in currency controls…

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2015-10-02 09:18:32

You can’t buy a foreign house with local currency. It has to be converted. The Chinese government is spending billions defending its currency. What happened the last time it was devalued? Global stocks tanked. And why is all this money leaving? Fear of collapse, like we are seeing in Brazil. Collapse in China, global stocks crash. The globalist hooked our wagon to these emerging markets and there will be losers. Besides, pouring money into unproductive, empty, over-priced housing is hardly a positive economic force, legal or otherwise.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2015-10-02 10:18:31

Capital flight darkens economic prospects for emerging markets

As someone who lived in an county experiencing capital flight (Mexico, starting in the very late 70’s) it was surreal to see how quickly it went from party time to survival time.

I had friends who hopped on airliners with empty suitcases and went on shopping sprees in Dallas, Houston and San Antonio. Even the plain old middle class got into the act, booking trips to Orlando and Hawaii.

Then the music suddenly stopped. It became impossible to exchange pesos to dollars at the banks, which also stopped selling foreign denominated travelers checks. If you had a credit card, it was revoked and replaced with one that had the words “Valid Only in Mexico” stamped on them in big, black letters.

 
Comment by scdave
2015-10-02 10:33:45

It became impossible to exchange pesos to dollars at the banks ?

But, can you exchange pesos (buy with) for stocks….Then sell stocks for US currency….Then buy real estate with the US currency….Can you buy a company with Pesos…then sell the company for cash ?? Like is said, there are lots of ways to wash & rise that dirty money which I am sure there is a lot of it going on…

 
Comment by In Colorado
2015-10-02 11:00:13

But, can you exchange pesos (buy with) for stocks….Then sell stocks for US currency….Then buy real estate with the US currency….Can you buy a company with Pesos…then sell the company for cash ?? Like is said, there are lots of ways to wash & rise that dirty money which I am sure there is a lot of it going on…

The problem with that was that you had to convince someone with USD to purchase your Mexican based assets (stocks, companies, land, etc.). You wouldn’t find anyone willing to do that, as they all knew that if they did they would get “stucco”. Everyone was trying to buy dollars and move them out of the country. Gold was a proxy for USD, but gold coins were pretty much not for sale either, not for pesos, anyway. Those you could sell for USD, so if you had some before the crash you could find buyers.

It wasn’t so much a case of money laundering as it was having a type of money no one wanted to have. If you could get your hands on USDs you would make a beeline for Texas and deposit them in a bank there.

 
Comment by scdave
2015-10-02 13:28:33

The problem with that was that you had to convince someone with USD to purchase your Mexican based assets ??

Maybe I did not frame it correctly…How would a mexico investor buy stock in a USA company ?? There has to be some type of conversion..So many pesos for each share of stock based on the exchange rate ?? If that same investor now sells the stock can’t he sell for US dollars ?? Maybe I am missing something since I don’t invest in the stock market…

 
Comment by In Colorado
2015-10-02 16:04:51

How would a mexico investor buy stock in a USA company

He would exchange pesos to dollars and buy the stocks. But back then there was no mechanism to do that, as currency controls were in place. To wire transfer dollars out of Mexico required special dispensation from the government (which was next to impossible to obtain), plus the availability of dollars.

To put this into perspective: my dad owned a mold making and plastics injection molding shop in Mexico City. During that time it was impossible to purchase spare parts for his machines, so if one broke down they would have to machine a (decidedly inferior) replacement part and hope for the best. If something electronic failed, it was off to the black market; there was no ordering a spare part from the machine maker as he had no dollars with which to pay with and the US company would NOT accept pesos in payment.

 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2015-10-02 08:40:03

“sorting this all out…”

Poof.

Sort it out on the auction block.

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Comment by scdave
2015-10-02 09:02:12

Sort it out on the auction block ??

Don’t need to Auction it if you own it….

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2015-10-02 09:19:49

The purpose of money-laundering is to get your money, not to support Orange County house prices.

 
Comment by scdave
2015-10-02 10:37:27

purpose of money-laundering is to get your money, not to support Orange County house prices ??

I get it Ben…I don’t think they are trying to “support” Orange county prices…They are just looking for a place to park it, rinse & wash it…Like I said before, if they pay 1-mil and get back even 500k they likely feel its a winner…Why else would they be buying property site unseen for ridicules amounts…They (some) just don’t care what the price is…

 
 
 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2015-10-02 10:04:56

Maybe they think (erroneously) that Vancouver real estate is a safer bet than Chinese financial instruments or real estate?

Comment by Ben Jones
2015-10-02 10:40:44

The carry cost on a house is negative at Vancouver prices, even if they rent it out which many don’t. There are so many scenarios in which this situation could turn sideways. For instance, Chinese corporations loaded up on US denominated debt. Devaluing becomes more painful. Even more defaults, this time to US lenders. They have a stock bubble, a real estate bubble and are facing recession. Throw in a currency crisis (see Malaysia/Brazil already) and we’ve got a big problem.

Comment by In Colorado
2015-10-02 12:43:50

Owing debt in another currency is suicide. You are one devaluation away from disaster.

I strongly suspect that the Chinese, much like the Mexicans in the 70’s and 80’s, are just trying to get their money out of the country any way they can. I suspect most of it ends up stashed in a bank. That’s what I saw my wealthy Mexican friends do: stash millions in some bank in San Antonio, where they also bought a vacation home. I don’t recall them being too worried about the house’s resale value. Some of them still own those houses to this day.

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Comment by redmondjp
2015-10-02 15:59:45

Bingo! You get it. Many on my local RE blog can’t even grasp this concept. They think that the only reason foreigners are buying is speculation in anticipation of future price increases. That may well happen, but even if it doesn’t, they will still own those houses outright.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2015-10-02 17:53:34

Some are using loans. I’ve documented that many times.

The issue is, what has been the effect on the prices everyone else is paying (and borrowing for).

 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-10-02 17:55:55

“they will still own those houses outright.”

Nope. It’s all dumb.borrowed.money.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2015-10-02 18:21:46

Some are using loans.

Of that I have no doubt.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by doom
2015-10-02 06:23:55

Dismal jobs report again. 5.1% number is like the inflation figure, nothing that really counts towards a true number is factor in.

We have inflation, we have a high unemployment rate, we have poor paying jobs. Nothing else needs to be said, the country is stagnant with cost of living to high which= continue recession (we never came out of it).

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-10-02 06:25:33

“We have inflation”

That’s not inflation. *Learn* the difference.

Comment by redmondjp
2015-10-02 12:15:04

Sorry, but go grocery shopping and tell me that we don’t have inflation. The breakfast cereal boxes are so thin now that two of them front-to-back would fit inside of the same H x W box from 10 years ago.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-10-02 13:22:00

That’s not inflation my friend. Learn the difference.

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Comment by doom
2015-10-02 12:56:26

Learn* the difference…..Grammar A punctuation mark ( , ) used to indicate a separation of ideas,…. you do know the difference right?

JUST A LESSON FOR YOU TO LEARN?

Comment by Blue Skye
2015-10-02 15:07:58

Keep at it. The English classes are helping.

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Comment by taxpayers
2015-10-02 06:51:32

how many gov workers do we pay for dated useless info
gdp get revised endlessly

Comment by In Colorado
2015-10-02 10:06:09

Or is that outsourced to a “contractor” like the one Goon used to work for?

 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2015-10-02 07:05:41

Being honest with our statistics would conclusively discredit every remedy imposed by our political and economic leadership since 2007-08.

Comment by WPA
2015-10-02 08:05:49

Better stagnation than all-out Depression. Bernanke did the right thing with the early QE. The error was continuing QE far too long. The other mistake was the “stimulus” was too small and only something like 10% went to infrastructure.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-10-02 08:18:21

Probem: QE Bottle-necked and fixed prices. Bernanke/Yeltsin failed.

Falling prices to dramatically lower and more affordable levels is the solution.

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Comment by Blue Skye
2015-10-02 11:11:40

“Bernanke did the right thing…”

That’s a particularly evil thought. He made food, heat and shelter more expensive for everyone in the world, just to save Wall Street banks that made bad loans.

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Comment by snake charmer
2015-10-02 13:10:13

We don’t know for certain that the right thing was done. That’s certainly what the Fed wants us to believe, though. I tend to agree with the argument that a crash, followed by reform and the elimination of bubble-driven malinvestment, might have hurt more at first but would have been better for the country in the long run. Now we’re likely to follow in Japan’s tracks, which is indefinite stagnation, caused in part by propping assets up at undeserved valuations.

I also tend to agree with the argument that Main Street is in a Depression from which it has not emerged. The Fed did little, if anything, which benefitted anyone beyond the FIRE sector and people with very substantial non-cash asset holdings. And those benefits came at the expense of savers and non-speculators, who sadly seem not to have any political influence in the United States at this time.

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Comment by Floating Seahorse
2015-10-02 15:10:15

“Bernanke did the right thing…”

Shalom!

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Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2015-10-02 06:32:56

On The Horizon: “Melbourne Apartments Sold At A Loss Because Of Glut”

http://www.afr.com/real-estate/melbourne-apartment-glut-20pc-sold-at-a-loss-20150929-gjxdn5

 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
Comment by Larry Littlefield
2015-10-02 06:50:48

Don’t worry, there will be no housing glut in Brooklyn. Just an inability of landlords to get as much in rent as their pro-formas claimed without putting ten tenants in a room.

NYC is being overwhelmed by in-migrants from places where things are even worse. At one time that was mostly other countries, but now it is the South and Midwest of the U.S.

https://larrylittlefield.wordpress.com/2015/09/29/poverty-anywhere-leads-to-poverty-in-new-york-city/

The city is already fully developed at a high density, and the housing stock cannot expand fast enough. So people are packing in, packing in, packing in. So many young adults that the city seems like one big mosh pit.

See those flat wages? Businesses can’t raise wages because they can’t raise prices because their customers — other wage earners — are broke. But at least in NYC people living four to a room feel they have a life.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-10-02 06:57:45

With all the excess empty and defaulted houses in NYC, it’s a moot point.

It’s a long way down to the bottom.

Comment by Larry Littlefield
2015-10-02 07:07:17

Let’s hope. NYC buyers and renters could use a break.

Our best hope is the Miami scenario, where overbuilding for the top leads (after bankruptcy, foreclosure, workout) to more housing for everyone else.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2015-10-02 06:45:45

“To bring what really happened to the screen - the fact ‘victims’ played a large role in their demise as homeowners - wouldn’t sell very many tickets. The popular sentiment is the greed of Wall Street drove the housing crisis. The truth is it took a lot of little guys looking the other way, being complacent with erroneous financial information on final loan documents because they wanted a house, swallowing more house than their financial stomach could handle, and they wanted to get rich quick.”

And to round out the writer’s excellent reconciliation of the Hollywood screenplay version of America’s housing market with reality on the ground, he may as well change tense from past to present. Nothing has been learned, as we are currently on a repeat of the runup to the 2007-08 housing market meltdown.

 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2015-10-02 07:06:10

The economic news is increasingly positive

“Saudi Arabia To Cut November Crude Prices”

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/01/us-saudi-oil-prices-idUSKCN0RV42W20151001

 
Comment by WPA
2015-10-02 08:17:23

re the “99 Homes” article: that was an editorial in the Turlock, Calif. Journal. Turlock is in the San Joaquin valley, has high unemployment, low educational status, a high crime rate, population is heavily Hispanic (ag workers). It’s really odd that editorial left out the large role of predatory lenders in this area. They would hard sell homes by saying you can have this $500k house for only $900 a month, just sign right here, but not disclosing negative amortization or balloon payments. Thus the central valley of Calif had some of the highest foreclosure rates in the state.

That editorial was heavy on blame the buyer and went easy on blaming the banks.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-10-02 08:20:21

Then entire state of Californica is high unemployment, high crime, high poverty.

Comment by MarkinSF
2015-10-02 12:24:39

Not in the San Francisco Bay Area

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-10-02 13:24:16

In particular, the San Francisco Bay Area. Crime is under-reported and at record highs there.

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Comment by scdave
2015-10-02 13:33:13

Not in the San Francisco Bay Area ??

Welcome MarkinSF…Never seen your site name here before…Just ignore Mafia…He also goes by the handle Housing Analyst and LoLa…He may even have more than that but you can always tell its him because its the same garbage every day….

Just ignore him….

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Comment by Doom
2015-10-02 15:00:34

Best advice you will ever get, Ignore the person with several screen names? Yes welcome, I’m not on the site as much as before, but this is a very well run blog, even though in the past I have had my differences with Mr. Jones and his views on housing (which I must say so far he was right, the recovery is a illusion.)

He lets you have your say as long as you keep it civil. Have fun, nobody really knows what is going to happen tomorrow, it is all about sorting out what is best for you or your family and nobody else including the so called stats experts and talking heads nobody knows really, only educated guesses. Take care

 
Comment by In Colorado
2015-10-02 16:11:00

Just ignore him….

Or better yet, install the Joshua Tree extension and you won’t even have to see his posts.

Just Joshua Tree him!

 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-10-02 17:54:30

Sadly, none of you have the fortitude to the data in spite of the fact I continue to encourage everyone to use the JT extension.

Data my friends…. fortitude.

 
 
 
Comment by rms
2015-10-02 17:21:25

“…state of Californica is high unemployment, high crime, high poverty.”

Certainly true in eastern California, e.g., the Central Valley.

 
 
Comment by BearCat
2015-10-02 09:01:55

In the part Ben excerpted, there was blame for the banks, too. Overall, the Turlock Journal editorial was better than anything I’ve seen in a supposedly more prestigious newspaper.

Comment by WPA
2015-10-02 09:31:47

there was blame for the banks

It was there but soft-pedaled. When Goldman, Lehman, et al repackaged bad mortgages in CDO’s as prime A+ debt instruments, it was outright FRAUD on a grand scale. And yes, some buyers were greedy doing no doc interest-only loans — but it was the banks that created these products in the first place. Any editorial that doesn’t use the harshest terms when describing what the banks did in 2005-2008 is not a good editorial in my view.

Comment by BearCat
2015-10-02 13:20:46

And any editorial that does not cover what home speculators did is a fraud. It takes two to tango; for example, with Neg-Am, IO loans, cash-out Re-fi’s, and HELOCs, not only does someone have to offer it, but some body has to take it.

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Comment by rms
2015-10-02 23:21:46

“…but some body has to take it.”

Keep in mind that professional fees were paid to the mortgage originator and realtor to place their client into a workable financial situation.

 
 
 
 
Comment by CHE
2015-10-02 12:34:12

A buyer that has no idea what they’re signing has no business conducting a transaction worth half a million dollars or owning a house.

They deserve to lose.

 
 
Comment by rj chicago
2015-10-02 08:29:28

Ben Jones:
Great job on the video you posted yesterday.
The segment on Broomfield - yikes. Deal with that is a bit further west it is not the landfill that would be the worry - it is the dirt itself - Rocky Flats nuclear plant used to be there up by Leyden Ranch - same types of homes - same type of price.

Co Spgs - I suspect that the video was taken on a ’shelf’ overlooking a valley below in an area called Flying Horse?
Went there looking about a couple years back and just turned around and walked away given what was proposed at the price.

Keep ‘em comin. Like the introduction of music - nice touch. Recommend not such hard stops and starts and maybe a bumper fade on the music a bit as one scene recedes and goes to the next.

Comment by Ben Jones
2015-10-02 08:37:43

I appreciate the feed-back. I do want to smooth out the stops and starts and transition the music better. I stepped up to a more sophisticated editing software. The problem is it’s very complex; it can do much more but the manual is over 300 pages! Another thing I’ve noticed is one can fine tune a video indefinitely.

I didn’t have the time I would have liked. I was out there as a guest for a beer festival and the rental car wasn’t mine. I’ll definitely be going back. That probably was a shelf. I never felt like I was in CS proper. The amount of residential construction is staggering. You can see near the end they are building entire blocks of houses at the same time. The streets aren’t even passable in some cases.

Comment by scdave
2015-10-02 08:43:14

You can see near the end they are building entire blocks of houses at the same time ??

And from what I saw, open land as far as the eye could see….

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-10-02 08:51:02

That’s right.

Remember…. there is a globe full of land and 95% goes undeveloped.

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Comment by taxpayers
2015-10-02 11:09:02

FED to Sell off 100 billion of “assets”

bahhhhhhhhhhhh made you look

 
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