November 25, 2015

Bits Bucket for November 25, 2015

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Comment by The Order Of The Golden Chainsaw
2015-11-25 02:44:26

I am too cool to vote any of these fools.

Comment by Ration
2015-11-25 06:31:19

If everything is so wonderful why still ZIRP?

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2015-11-25 06:49:14

Soon to be NIRP.

Comment by CalifoH20
2015-11-25 12:30:52

not wonderful, just much better then 2009.

Comment by MightyMike
2015-11-25 13:00:34

Why not ZIRP?

Comment by Ratton
2015-11-25 15:52:28

Really? Why not ZIRP? Why not give everyone a trillion dollars? Ben said a few days ago that he had his own definition of a troll. this comment made me think about that.

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Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 16:09:48

I speculate something special in the future.

Comment by Bill, just south of Irvine
2015-11-25 08:24:04

That’s the way. Too cool and too smart.

None of the candidates are telling you the Middle East war is meant to be continuous. It is. It is not a war against terror. It is a war against you, U.S. citizen.

I laugh at the partisan posts below. They have not learned from 2012.

Comment by Jingle Male
2015-11-25 02:56:49

I wonder if the spring selling season will continue the market strength we’ve see the last few years?

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 05:55:28

Housing demand at 20 year lows (30 year low in CA) isn’t anyone’s idea of strength Jingle_Fraud.

Comment by oxide
2015-11-25 05:47:37

Yesterday I commented that there were no rumors of Black Friday madness this year. I guess so:

‘Muted’ Black Friday Forecast for Retailers, With TVs, Toys Giving a Lift

While the days surrounding Thanksgiving remain a big draw for holiday shoppers, early online promotions and a willingness to shop via smartphone over pumpkin pie have chipped away at what was for a few decade a single-day retail phenomenon.

“Our view is Black Friday is going to be kind of muted this holiday season,” said Joseph Feldman, senior managing director at Telsey Advisory Group. “Now it’s almost like Black November these days. The whole month is promotions,” he said. “They’re trying to just capture sales whenever they can get them.”

ISTM that Cyber Monday is bleeding into the rest of month, now that people have internet at home and don’t need to order crap from their work computer. Maybe we’ll go back to the days of people filling the closet with Christmas gifts that they grabbed on sale six months before.

Comment by palmetto
2015-11-25 06:33:35

I agree. I had this conversation with a buddy the other day, that they’ve finally broken the Christmas season, what with putting out all sorts of stuff as early as the end of September, Christmas in July, Black Friday, Cyber Monday, blah, blah. And it’s not coming back, IMO. Of course, I expect them to lie like rugs about the actual figures, but I suspect it’s going to be pretty dismal this year.

There may be a 24 hour shopping cycle on line, but in bricks and mortar, fuhgeddaboudit.

Comment by Ration
2015-11-25 07:31:38

You can get a decently workable tablet for $50 bucks or the new Apple Giganto pad for $800.

Two tier society.

Comment by inchbyinch
2015-11-25 08:18:37

Very refreshing, that Nordies wasn’t doing “Christmas Creep” this year, and started on Black Friday with Christmas decorations and sales. The Retail Federation must not be too happy.

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 06:20:00

Guess what is coming to Syria.

A “no-fly zone” requested the by legitimate and recognized government of Syria.

Backed up by Russian ADA.

Now if Turkey can shoot down a Russian plane that at most violated a sliver its airspace for just a few seconds and was never a threat and obama thinks that is just dandy.

Imagine the what is coming.


Russia to deploy S-400 defense missile system to Khmeimim airbase in Syria - defense minister
RT | 11-25-2015

The Russian Air Force base in Latakia will be reinforced with S-400 SAM system, which will soon be deployed there, Russia’s Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said on Wednesday.

“An S-400 will be deployed on Khmeimim airbase in Syria,” Shoigu said at a Defense Ministry meeting.

On Tuesday, a Russian Su-24 was shot down by a Turkish F-16 fighter jet near the Turkish-Syrian border. One pilot died in the incident. The second one was rescued and brought to the Latakia airbase.

Moscow maintains the jet did not violate Turkey’s airspace. It ditched on Syria’s territory 4km from the border.

Shortly afterwards, the MoD announced three steps to be taken following the attack on the Russian Su-24 bomber, including providing aerial cover by fighter jets for every airstrike, boosting air defense by deploying guided missile cruisers off the Syrian coast near Latakia coast, and suspending all military-to-military contacts with Turkey.

The S-400 is Russia’s most advanced anti-aircraft defense system. It is as an upgrade of the S-300 Growler family, designed and developed by Almaz Antei. The S-400 is employed to ensure air defense using long- and medium-range missiles that can hit aerial targets at ranges up to 400km. The S-400 is capable of hitting tactical and strategic aircraft as well as ballistic and cruise missiles. The system includes a set of radars, missile launchers and command posts, and is operated solely by the Russian military.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 06:33:41

Imagine the what is coming.

What what the what?

Try not to get too excited over the war ratcheting up, although I’m sure it gives you patriotic goosebumps to see a Mig fighter in action.

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 06:44:23

Predicting a response does not equal excitement over war.

Just like predicting the disaster of obamacare does not equal excitement for bigger government.

The massive failure of obama’s foreign policy has already had severe repercussions and will continue to spiral out of control.

I am predicting those repercussions.

You can hide and just keep saying “hope and change”

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 06:58:05

What repercussions are you predicting?

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Comment by CalifoH20
2015-11-25 12:25:34

GOP loves to spend on bombs to blow up rocks then complain about the deficit.

Comment by palmetto
2015-11-25 06:38:59

Heh, one of my all time fave books, Alas, Babylon, written by Pat Frank in 1959, is based on the premise that WW3 was sparked as a result of an accidental hit on Latakia. Even back then, it was Russia (USSR) and Syria together.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2015-11-25 06:55:08

Note that the Russian warplane was shot down from Hatay Province, which historically was part of Syria but was annexed by Turkey. Syria still views Hatay as stolen territory.

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 07:35:41

Funny how Turkey gets to occupy and annex lands (Northern Cyprus is another) and no one say boo…

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Comment by Ratton
2015-11-25 07:51:44

In honor of you, I will boo my turkey tomorrow!

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
Comment by cactus
2015-11-25 10:06:28

Today’s incident marked the second time in less than three months that Turkish fighters have downed a Russian-made jet along the Syrian border. Ankara has aggressively defended its airspace and is clearly itching for a fight; the nation’s Islamist Prime Minister, Recep Erdoğan, is an arch-foe of Syrian dictator Bashir Assad and by extension, the Russian government that is propping him up. Erdogan has accused Damascus and Moscow of bombing Syria’s ethnic Turkmen population, which is concentrated in the border region. Turkey has also launched frequent airstrikes against Kurdish groups in Syria that oppose the Ankara government.

Comment by WPA
2015-11-25 10:25:27

The other point of view is that Russia is the aggressor and is testing NATO’s resolve.

If Putin wants to poke a stick at NATO Turkey is the place to do it. Turkey is not really a good fit for NATO and the EU members must be squirming over Turkey’s duplicitous semi-support for ISIS and suppression of the Kurds.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
Comment by Goon
2015-11-25 06:35:39

Thanks again to Ben Jones for allowing us to discuss the grabber narrative here. And remember, it’s not a Democrat vs Republican false dichotomy, it is authoritarian vs libertarian.

The globalist progressive movement wants a disarmed America, one of the first steps toward the elimination of national sovereignty. And the narrative always, always ends one way:

Registration, confiscation, extermination.

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 06:47:42

Yet, oddly, whenever a democrat takes power (local, state, federal) or whenever there is a shooting involving white children…

The first thing the democrat does is push for more and more gun control and gun bans.

Very hard to find an example of a republican doing it. I am sure it has happened, but it is the exception.

Comment by Bill, just south of Irvine
2015-11-25 08:25:49

Exactly. It is the State versus you, the individual.

Vacate the vote.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2015-11-25 08:33:14

the grabber narrative here. And remember, it’s not a Democrat vs Republican false dichotomy, it is authoritarian vs libertarian.

Guns are part of the American tradition however the countries that are more libertarian than the USA are not more libertarian because they own more guns. I don’t believe in “grabbing” guns but owning the most guns in the world hardly contributes to America’s world standing in liberty. Economic liberty of good jobs and health-care are much more important family liberty issues than for an unemployed guy to be able to own 5 AK-47s with 30 round magazines.

“Ireland with its economic freedom and minimum taxation and many social freedoms ranks first as the most libertarian country in the world; Coming in second is Canada with freedoms in many aspects except for problematic medical policies: Switzerland with its untrimmed peace resulting from an effective 200 year non-interventionist policy and economic freedom wrought by decentralization ranks third; the United States and its congenial society that upholds freedoms in varying degrees based on the legislation and practices of individual states ranks fourth; and New Zealand with its economic and social freedoms is the fifth on our list. -

Comment by AmazingRuss
2015-11-25 12:56:04

More guns sold than ever before, and still 2fruit is crying about it.

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Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 06:22:31

“Your Debt Bubble Is Here” - The Updated Leverage Cycle Map

Hold onto ever dollar you’ve got and you better hope you’re not holding any debt. Mortgage debt in particular. Thank us later.

Comment by azdude
2015-11-25 06:28:56

buy stocks and homes. Dont fight the FED! buy now or be priced out forever!

Comment by redmondjp
2015-11-25 23:19:59

And don’t forget to buy the frackin’ dip!

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 06:39:17

The top 10 of Debt/GDP ratios (America is #16 at 233%)

Japan - 400%
Ireland - 390%
Singapore - 382%
Portugal - 358%
Belgium - 327%
Netherlands - 325%
Greece - 317%
Spain - 313%
Denmark - 302%
Sweden - 290%

What do they all have in common? A massive welfare state that will implode no matter how many muslim “refugees” they let in…

And FYI - Russia is not even on the list.

Comment by MightyMike
2015-11-25 07:11:52

Where’d you get that list? Does it include non-governmental debt. Italy is usually in the top three.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 07:15:50

And FYI - Russia is not even on the list.

And Cuba, Iran, and Afghanistan have less than Russia.

Interestingly, it’s the crappiest, least free countries in the world with the least debt/GDP, the nicest with the most.

What’s up with that?

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 07:28:56

So are you saying that:

My choice to live in a muslim no-go zone in Paris with debt up to my eye balls and be a debt slave to afford a crappy 1 bed apartment


To live on the beach in Honduras with lots of amigas and no debt?

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Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 07:53:48

No, I’m saying the crappiest , least free countries seem to have the lowest debt, and the nicest, most free countries have the most debt.

What’s up with that?

Comment by Ben Jones
2015-11-25 08:50:45

More images for honduran sand fleas
Roatan–Sand Fleas and Biting Flies - Lonely Planet Travel … › … › Central America › Honduras
Lonely Planet
Aug 16, 2007 - 5 posts - ‎5 authors
When is the sand flea/biting flies season? … i just got back from honduras and my experience of the sand flie is that they are everywhere! i …

These little guys will ruin your day. The bite is more like a wasp than a flea.

Comment by scdave
2015-11-25 10:18:01

These little guys will ruin your day ??

Yep…My son had a miserable time with them in Panama…His legs looked like he had chicken-pox…

Comment by CalifoH20
2015-11-25 12:32:04

honduran sand fleas

and jelly fish

been there, done that

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2015-11-25 08:42:12

it’s the crappiest, least free countries in the world with the least debt/GDP, the nicest with the most.

Because debt, when used wisely, is crucial in the investment for developing countries’ people and futures.

A massive welfare state that will implode

Even if developed countries such as Japan and the USA “implode” because of “too much” debt, they will still be able to rebound from a far better base than non developed countries’ with far lower debt/GDP imo. (Especially if that debt has been invested in the public good rather than for taxCutsForTheRich). Why? Because debt invested in the public good of the “imploding” countries has allowed them to develop to a much higher economic and educational level than without that debt.

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Comment by redmondjp
2015-11-25 23:34:55

But how so? I would argue the exact opposite - in non developed countries, people are already dirt poor, and also work the land. Becoming even a little more poor is not good, but doable and they will get by. But us rich folks will whine and cry when there are three people ahead of us in the Starbuck’s drive-thru.

In developed countries like America, we are now so highly specialized in our careers that the $250K/year software developers that live surrounding me don’t even know which end of a screwdriver to pick up, and can’t open the hood on their own car. Of course they don’t need to know how do to these things, as they pay other people to do those things for them. What do these people do if they can’t find work in their field?

So what happens, now that we have become so efficient at doing labor that we don’t have enough jobs for everybody, and the mfg. jobs that we did have got sent over to developing countries. Now, we are facing job losses in the white-collar sector, with the latest well-known example being the IT workers at Disneyworld being forced to train their foreign-born H1B replacements. Comcast/Xfinity has outsourced all of their call centers offshore now - the last two times I called them it was somebody in the Philippines.

Fifteen years ago, we had a tech bubble. Then that popped, and we had a housing bubble after that. Now we have a much larger tech bubble at the same time as another housing bubble plus a stock market bubble (all due to too many cheap dollars chasing higher returns). When this bubble blows, will it be as bad as the Great Depression, or even worse?

I still say that those in the poor countries will be better off, because they are already poor, and being slightly more poor won’t affect them that much and they will be able to cope with that. But what if millions of people in this country (who can’t operate a can opener, much less grow a food for plant) lose their gov’t benefits? Let me tell you, it ain’t gonna be pretty, and I want to be far, far away from these people when it does happen.

Comment by MightyMike
2015-11-25 10:51:31

Japan is one of the most prosperous countries on the planet. On the other hand, Australia is also one of the most prosperous and its debt-to-GDP ratio is very low, around 30%. Maybe there’s no pattern there.

Comment by AmazingRuss
2015-11-25 12:58:03

Must be a conspiracy!

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Comment by CalifoH20
2015-11-25 12:29:44

Giving Israel $8 billion a year needs to stop, I agree the mooching must end. Got Boeing? AIG? Alcoa? Farmers?

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2015-11-25 15:32:02


Me: “We must pull-out of the ME completely and quit subsidizing Israel.”
My friends: “Why? Israel is our ally.”
Me: “What makes them our ally?”
My friends: chirp…chirp…chirp…chirp.


Flick (tongue stuck to flag pole): “Come back, don’t leave me!”
Ralphie: “The bell rang.”
Schwartz: “Well, what are we going to do?”
Ralphie: “I don’t know, the bell rang.”

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Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2015-11-25 17:10:00

Unlimited aid to Israel will never stop as long as the Likud Party and AIPAC own the neo-cons.

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Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 06:28:38

Something to share at the Thanksgiving Table with family.


The Real Thanksgiving Story

In the middle of December 1620 the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock, leaving behind the sinfulness of the “old world” to make a “new Jerusalem” in America. Three years later, in November 1623, they had a great feast thanking God for getting them through an earlier famine, and now for a bountiful crop.

What had created the earlier famine and then the bountiful crops? The story is told in the diary of Governor Bradford, who was one of the elders of that early Puritan colony.

At first, they decided to turn their back on all the institutions of the England that had been their home. This included the institution of private property, which they declared to be the basis of greed, averse, and selfishness. Instead, they were determined to live the “Platonic ideal” of collectivism, in which all work would be done in common, with the rewards of their collective efforts evenly divided among the colonists. Farming was done in common, as well as housekeeping and child raising. This was supposed to lead to prosperity and brotherly love.

But their experiment in collectivism did not lead to prosperity or brotherly love. Rather, it created poverty and envy and slothfulness among most of the members of this little society.

Here is Bradford’s description of what socialism created among the Pilgrims:

“The experience that was had in this common course and condition, tried sundry years and that amongst godly and sober men, may well evince the vanity of that conceit of Plato’s and other ancients applauded by some of later times; that the taking away of property and bringing in community into a commonwealth would make them happy and flourishing; as if they were wiser than God. For this community was found to breed much confusion and discontent and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort. For the young men, that were most able and fit for labor and service, did repine that they should spend their time and strength to work for other men’s wives and children without any recompense. The strong… had no more in division of victuals and clothes than he that was weak and not able to do a quarter the other could; this was thought injustice. The aged and graver men to be ranked and equalized in labors everything else, thought it some indignity and disrespect unto them.

“And for men’s wives to be commanded to do service for other men, as dressing their meat, washing their clothes, etc., they deemed it a kind of slavery, neither could many husbands well brook it. Upon the point all being to have alike, and all to do alike, they thought themselves in the like condition, and one as good as another; and so, if it did not cut off those relations that God hath set amongst men, yet it did at least much diminish and take off the mutual respects that should be preserved amongst them… Let none object this is men’s corruption, and nothing to the course itself. I answer, seeing all men have this corruption in them, God in His wisdom saw another course fitter for them.”

For two years the harvest time failed to bring forth enough to feed the people. Indeed, many starved and many died of famine. Faced with this disaster, the elders of the colony gathered, Governor Bradford tells us, and decided that another year, and they would surely all die and disappear in the wilderness.

Instead, they decided to divide the property and fields of the colony, and gave each family a piece as their own. Whatever they did not use for their own consumption, they had the right to trade away to their neighbors for something they desired instead.

Now, instead of sloth, envy, resentment, and anger among the colonists, there was a great turnaround in their activities. Industry, effort, and joy were now seen in practically all that the men, women and children did. Bradford writes:

“They had very good success, for it made all hands very industrious, so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been. The women now went willingly into the field, and took their little ones with them to set corn; which before would allege weakness and inability; whom to have compelled would have been thought great tyranny and oppression…By this time harvest was come, and instead of famine, now God gave them plenty, and the faces of things were changed, to the rejoicing of the hearts of many, for which they blessed God.”

Indeed, their bounty was so great, that they had enough to not only trade among themselves but also with the neighboring Indians in the forest. In November 1623, they had a great feast to which they also invited the Indians. They prepared turkey and corn, and much more, and thanked God for bringing them a bountiful crop. They, therefore, set aside a day of “Thanksgiving.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 06:40:20

That’s a fascinating story, especially given that Adam Smith wan’t born until 1723, a point which will be lost on the ignorami who post anti-economics diatribes here.

Comment by palmetto
2015-11-25 06:52:57

Please note that 2ban, whether or not you agree with him, makes some thoughtful posts from his point of view and frame of reference and generally conducts himself like a gentleman, unlike some on the HBB (myself included) who fling retaliatory screeds and insults.

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 07:17:21

Endless partisan rants do go down easier when unaccompanied by vitriolic ad hominem attacks.

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Comment by MacBeth
2015-11-25 08:51:47

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-01 06:10:10

When you step into the ballot box this week, remember that it was John McCain delaying the debate that paved the way for the $700 bn Republican tax bailout that saved Wall Street from collapse.

Comment by MacBeth
2015-11-25 08:53:27

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-27 19:23:26
Just voted for Obama. I would not risk contributing to a McPalin-Cain win by voting on the basis of principles…

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 08:54:34

Got non-sequitur?

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 08:57:58

Fabricating posts others never made is taking it to a new level. But then your name is Macbeth, so it should be expected….

Comment by MacBeth
2015-11-25 08:59:38

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-22 14:46:45
Palmetto, do you get paid to pimp Trump here, or do you honestly think he’s the best choice for CIC?
The more I read about him, the more he seems like a bloviating white male biggot with a narrowly provincial world view who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.
But please set me straight if I am being unfair.

Comment by MacBeth
2015-11-25 09:01:12

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-09-29 09:29:14
Favorable / Unfavorable ratings in new NBC/WSJ poll:
- Planned Parenthood: 41% / 31%
- Repugnican Party: 29% / 45%

Comment by MacBeth
2015-11-25 09:06:05

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-03 18:52:41
Another Bush bubble burst…
Vote for McCain
To get more of the same.

Comment by MacBeth
2015-11-25 09:10:17

“Comment by Professor Bear

2015-11-25 08:57:58

Fabricating posts others never made is taking it to a new level. But then your name is Macbeth, so it should be expected….”


Comment by palmetto
2015-11-25 11:13:15

I do admit I was a tad taken aback when the Prof took a slap at me out of nowhere re the Don. The Prof and I have been on this blog probably about the same length of time and although I know he fosters a certain animosity toward me (never really understood why, but that’s life) we don’t usually tangle.

So I bit back harder than I probably should have the other day. But then I got really cheesed off when he retreated into that sanctimonious “ad hominen” thing. C’mon, buddy, you drew first blood.

With that said, my take on the original question posed by the Prof, if I thought he was the best choice for CIC,is this: Yes. Better than the entire lot, Dem or Rep.

However, like oxy, I admit to being disappointed and very twitchy over his recent comments on databases and waterboarding. Why? Because we’ve been there, done that, and it doesn’t work. And I abhor torture.

There is historical precedent for how to deal successfully with ISIS and other related groups, and like most solutions, they’re quite simple. The first step would be ending this farce of an “alliance” with the House of Saud, but as I’ve said, I suspect the reason Warshington doesn’t is because of the dollar/oil reserve currency situation.

We have to willing to take the hit. It’ll be painful, but far less painful in the end that what we have now.

Comment by AmazingRuss
2015-11-25 14:12:48

That would require some real courage, which is in short supply. The shriekers are in power, and always will be.

Comment by palmetto
2015-11-25 15:37:50

It would be pretty ugly, but sooner or later it is going to happen.

I am no fan of Obama’s, but to some degree I think his push for climate change initiatives is a covert attempt to get the Saud monkey off our back. Why not just say it? The TPP is a similar thing, to get China off our back. Why not just say it? Of course, these things have to be loaded with goodies to get multinationals to go along.

Re-open the Bakken, seriously develop alternative sources of energy (without the incompetence of a Solyndra) and let the Middle East suck hind tit. It’ll soon revert to a picturesque backward region dependent on tourist dollars, which will go a long way to calming the jihadis.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 15:41:36

Re-open the Bakken

Is it closed?

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2015-11-25 15:49:51

“It’ll soon revert to a picturesque backward region dependent on tourist dollars, which will go a long way to calming the jihadis”

Yes, peer pressure. Simple solution. I like it.

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 19:52:49

Palmetto, thanks for the thoughtful comments on CIC choices and apologies for the perceived slight regarding Trump’s candidacy. It certainly is far better to have him in the race than if the field were already narrowed to the default dynastic Hillary-Jeb runoff.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2015-11-25 08:57:42

Adam Smith wan’t born until 1723, a point which will be lost on the ignorami who post anti-economics diatribes here.

“Anti-economics”? What does that even mean? Like these Adam Smith “diatribes” below? (Adam Smith was for much more of an economic balance than the USA is experiencing today.)

“It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.”
Adam Smith

“Our merchants and masters complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price and lessening the sale of goods. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people.
Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations

“The disposition to admire, and almost to worship, the rich and the powerful, and to despise, or, at least, to neglect persons of poor and mean condition is the great and most universal cause of the corruption of our moral sentiments.”
–Adam Smith Scottish political economist (1723-1790)

“No society can surely be flourishing and happy of which by far the greater part of the numbers are poor and miserable. ”
Adam Smith

“Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent.”
Adam Smith

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 19:58:14

Thise are great quotes, but if they have anything to do with 2banana’s post, I am missing it completely.

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Comment by redmondjp
2015-11-25 23:41:36

Look at what the robber barons did for our country.

For example, Carnegie built libraries (many of which are still standing) in podunk towns all over our entire country.

And Bill Gates is doing a pretty good job of giving his money away as well.

And, irony of all ironies, NPR is funded by trusts and foundations set up by the very same 1%ers that they rally against on the air. I chuckle every time I hear (’this brought to you by the Walton Foundation’).

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Comment by Cracker Bob
2015-11-25 07:03:48

“And for men’s wives to be commanded to do service for other men”

They shared their wives; sweet!

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 07:09:35

I didn’t realize the pilgrims were such swingers. Crazy times!

Comment by palmetto
2015-11-25 07:05:20

anyway, 2ban, I appreciate the post, thanks.

Comment by Goon
2015-11-25 07:11:31

Since you want to talk about Christianity and pilgrims and settlers, ask yourself why American taxpayers are responsible for negotiating a peace settlement between Israelis (not Christians) and Palestinians (not Christians) and why America should be responsible for any of this:

I was watching a show on PBS last night about the pilgrims and the settlement of Massachusetts Colony, their exile from England to Leyden, Holland, and journey to America for the primary purpose of religious freedom, who came here all because they wanted to be left alone.

And I thought about that in contrast with the self-proclaimed “Christians” that dominate the electorate, who elect a Congress that wants nothing but war, that seeks to involve America in conflicts between people who are not Christians all because of a delusional belief system that didn’t even exist 200 years ago, and enact a foreign policy to cater to a demographic base that believes in the Rapture, and it is just sickening.

Let these people control America’s government and foreign policy, and we deserve everything we’ve got coming as a result of it.

P.S. and it won’t be smaller government, less regulations, or lower taxes.

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 07:51:10


You rant on and on.

Never seeing the connections of the freedoms you have today are due to Christianity and Western Values. That if our Founding Fathers were not dedicated Christians, the American Revolution and the US Constitution would have never happened.

The is a reason why islamic governments (starting with Mo) conduct mass slaughter and have no freedom or liberty.

The is a reason why (starting with French Terror and Commune) that atheist governments conduct mass slaughter and have no freedom or liberty.


There is a reason why trade, science, literature, art, commerce , liberty and freedom seem to flourish under a certain philosophy and not others.

A unique philosophy of:

Do unto others..
Thou shall not steal…
Thou shall no covet…
All are equal before God (rich/poor, men/women, master/slave, etc.)
Give unto Caesar…

And yes, it is not perfect. For man is not perfect. You can find plenty of exceptions and bumps along the way.

But if you were placed in a time machine you were about to placed anywhere in history at any place and could ask only ONE question about where you were going (especially if you were a woman).

You would beg for a Christian nation.

Why is that?

Comment by scdave
2015-11-25 10:24:45

Nice post 2-fruit…

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Comment by AmazingRuss
2015-11-25 23:00:54

Whatever the founding fathers believed, your sky wizard is a Santa Claus myth for grow ups that can’t face reality.

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Comment by oxide
2015-11-25 08:22:45

I saw the same show, goon.

William Bradford looked like a really old Kurt Cobain.

Comment by Bill, just south of Irvine
2015-11-25 08:28:09

+1 Goon

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 07:17:41

But their experiment in collectivism did not lead to prosperity or brotherly love. Rather, it created poverty and envy and slothfulness among most of the members of this little society.

Lesson: Never listen to religious leaders.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2015-11-25 07:20:03

No, never listen to collectivists.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 07:23:06

What’s the difference?

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Comment by Goon
2015-11-25 07:35:48

And when you do listen to collectivists, some of the last sounds you’ll hear are the sound of the boxcar door being slammed shut and locked, with you and your entire family inside, the sound of the gas hissing out of the vents in the walls of the chamber, the sound of the firing squad cocking and firing and of bullet ridden bodies crumpling into a ditch, including your own.

It’s the progressive way.

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Comment by Bill, just south of Irvine
2015-11-25 08:31:07

It took me decades before I realized collectivism is practiced not only by leftists, but the right wing. Followers of George H Bush, Bill Krisol, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and their cronies that fanned the flames of prejudice against the Islam religion. I consider Hillary and Obama as part of the George H Bush cronies. And Bill Clinton.

Comment by MightyMike
2015-11-25 12:57:42

from Wikipedia:

A direct example of Collectivism, would be Minnesota nice. “Minnesota Nice” is a Social Code that all individuals within the State of Minnesota are expected to follow; however, at no time do people go to jail if they break it, the penalties for doing so are minor, and social in nature, but never legal. Military ranks in any military system in the world are also an example of collectivism. Notice that military ranks are backed legally, but “Minnesota Nice” is not. It simply implies to everyone that they should act a certain way (rather than any way they choose, which would be Individualism), and therefore expresses group orientation within a society, and is considered a well-functioning example of Collectivism by Social Scientists.
Collectivism has been used to refer to a diverse range of political and economic positions, including nationalism, direct democracy, representative democracy, monarchy, and communism. Collectivism does not need a government or political system to exist (another example of that would be a religious organization that stresses “group goals” within it that is not backed by a government like American or Canadian society), but it can also exist within a political system rather than simply “on the ground”. Primarily, Collectivism describes how groups orient themselves naturally within a society.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2015-11-25 09:17:07

The whole social contract thing goes back thousands of years balancing collectivism with individual rights ie The Social Contract. In modern day, there are no individual rights without “collectivist” institutions to protect them.

No, never listen to collectivists.

Then one would never listen key aspects and arguments of our Constitution, The Declaration of Independence, Mahāvastu, Greek and Stoic philosophy and Roman and Canon Law, Hugo Grotius, Thomas Hobbes, Samuel Pufendorf, John Locke, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Immanuel Kant and our founding fathers.

In moral and political philosophy, the social contract or political contract is a theory or model, originating during the Age of Enlightenment, that typically addresses the questions of the origin of society and the legitimacy of the authority of the state over the individual.[1]

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Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 07:29:32

Many religious leaders I have met over the course of my life are either closet or open capitalists.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 07:36:54

either closet or open

I thought you were going somewhere else with that.

Have you asked them if they think heaven will have private property?

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Comment by Goon
2015-11-25 07:39:41

Net worth $56 million according to this:

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Comment by scdave
2015-11-25 10:29:12

Net worth $56 million ??

Guys like this pervert Christianity…I always ask, is this man walking and talking in the image of Jesus ?? If the answer is no, then ignore him…Surely don’t follow him…

Comment by WPA
2015-11-25 10:40:06

Net worth $56 million ??

Verily, we must drive the money-changers out of the temple! But wait, not until I build my crystal palace, buy my 6 BR 5000 ft house, and I take delivery of my fully loaded Cadillac with a “He Is Risen” license plate frame.

Comment by AmazingRuss
2015-11-25 12:59:04

Shotgun Jesus approves.

Comment by Ration
2015-11-25 07:43:26

Never listen to religious leaders?

Like the Founding Fathers?

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 07:47:41

They were notably, even shockingly, non-religious for their time. And for our time.

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Comment by Blue Skye
2015-11-25 14:49:00

Even the Preachers?

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 15:09:42

Which ones were preachers?

Comment by Ratton
2015-11-25 16:07:55

Well, I do know that Jefferson and Franklin proposed a seal with an image from the Bible story of Moses and the Israelites fleeing Egypt.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 16:20:33

But they weren’t preachers. I don’t think any of the Founding Fathers were, unless maybe you expand out to include everybody at the Constitutional Convention. There were probably a few in there. But no one considers all of them to be the Founding Fathers that I’m aware of.

Blue can’t seem to come up with any either.

Comment by Blue Skye
2015-11-25 16:30:19

Which ones went to college?

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 16:33:07

Oh no, it’s one of those things where he knows the answer but won’t tell us.

Let me guess, going to some colleges automatically made you a preacher, or some such.

Comment by Blue Skye
2015-11-25 16:44:09

“Blue can’t seem to come up with any either.”

Oops, of course I can. Hell, the document itself has some hints.

Is the Declaration of Independence a sermon? What theological arguments does it employ? Who signed it?

Comment by Ratton
2015-11-25 16:44:32

Who cares if they were preachers? They wanted a scene from the bible as our seal. That’s all I need to know to see they were steeped in judeochristian values. Go to and read through the tens of thousands of original searchable documents showing that they wouldn’t put up with the progressive crap lies of today.

Comment by Blue Skye
2015-11-25 16:58:09

“Oh no, it’s one of those things…”

Oh my. Are you on the quest for understanding? Shall we all lay down pavers for you?

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 17:56:15

Oh jeez, just name the preachers.

Comment by Blue Skye
2015-11-25 18:36:32

Oh Jesus indeed.

Need some pavers do you, well look at the signers.

Comment by Bill, just south of Irvine
2015-11-25 08:33:41

Treaty with Tripoli, 1796. Article 11: America is by no means a Christian nation.

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Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 09:08:02

Signed a weak American nation in a treaty in order to get its citizens and sailors out of islamic slavery.

A short time later, American fought its first war on foreign soil. Against islamic cruelty and barbarism.

All without oil, a single American base in the middle east, a single colonial outpost or a president importing muslim refugees…

Comment by oxide
2015-11-25 08:21:36

Except that the “poverty and envy and slothfulness” paragraph wasn’t written by Bradford the religious leader. It was written by the biased author.

The lesson here is that fully equal communism only works when all persons are of equal physical and mental abilities and equal motivation. (Marx’s famous “from each according to his abilities” also makes this distinction.) However, Banana — and the person he is quoting — seems to think that if fully equal communism doesn’t work, we should run the entire spectrum directly to full-on no-government capitalism. No stopping in the middle.

It should also be noted that Bradford himself really longed for the fully equal communist system, but that the weakness of man — and here Bradford is very specific about it being physical weakness — is man’s corruption. Therefore for lesser man, God invented system lesser than equal communism.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 08:38:12

So basically, America was founded by religious communists, because they saw that as the most moral system. However, it didn’t work very well, so they unhappily went back to a capitalist system, which they saw as immoral but functional.

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Comment by oxide
2015-11-25 08:59:30

That’s mostly what I see. I’m looking at this passage:

Let none object this is men’s corruption, and nothing to the course itself. I answer, seeing all men have this corruption in them, God in His wisdom saw another course fitter for them.”

That’s pretty clear to me. According to Bradford, fully equal communism is clearly God’s way. But since all men are corrupt, they seem to survive better with a corrupt system. So Bradford may have been unhappy about it, but he saw it as more fitting.

That said, I don’t believe he went directly from straight-up God commie to straight-up Ayn Rand either.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 09:26:48

So in the eyes of the pilgrims, capitalism is a necessary evil, something to be used and tolerated but not loved or idolized.

And all this long before Adam Smith said essentially the same thing!

(BTW, You can see why the government sometimes intrudes on the free market. Right or wrong, it’s in our deepest moral and political DNA.)

Comment by In Colorado
2015-11-25 12:03:14

So basically, America was founded by religious communists

I wouldn’t go as far as saying that the Pilgrims “founded” America. I seriously doubt they ever imagined that someday a Republic called the United States of America; without a state church would someday rule the land.

All they can claim is that they got here first, and even that is a dubious claim. Heck, there was already a University in Mexico City when the pilgrims arrived.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 12:13:51

America. Not Mexico.

Comment by Blue Skye
2015-11-25 14:52:48

“All they can claim is that they got here first”

Actually they met a local who spoke perfect English.

Comment by Ration
2015-11-25 07:37:31

Wait, what about the Indians?

Comment by Ration
2015-11-25 07:38:41

My bad, missed it at the end.

Comment by Blue Skye
2015-11-25 10:06:24

“The Real Thanksgiving Story”

Reads more like an April Fool’s spoof.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
Comment by Goon
2015-11-25 06:30:01

Welcome to the recoveryless recovery:

“Jobs that have returned to the economy since the recession are mostly low-wage jobs, according to the State of Working Colorado 2015-2016 report, released Tuesday by Denver-based CCLP.

Job growth has occurred almost exclusively in occupations with wages below self-sufficiency.”

What those Lucky Ducks need are $500,000 starter homes!

Comment by Ratton
2015-11-25 07:48:24

Isn’t money, especially federal money, unlimited? Doesn’t it just rain down from the sky for whatever pet cause I have?

Comment by In Colorado
2015-11-25 09:12:55

The Future belongs to Lucky Ducky!

Comment by In Colorado
2015-11-25 09:15:10

I’m guessing that all those Lucky Duckies won’t be getting married or buying houses. The only ones who will have kids will be the Alpha Widow single mothers with EBT cards in hand.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 06:30:02

(Maximum) CraterRage Photo Of The Day

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 06:35:37

Has the government-sponsored rent inflation policy led to increased homelessness?

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 06:50:43

The San Diego Union Tribune
Data Watch
San Diego’s rise in homelessness bucks U.S. trend
By Lauryn Schroeder | 5:55 p.m. Nov. 23, 2015 | Updated, 4:53 p.m. | Nov. 24, 2015
Homeless in San Diego
View Gallery

The homeless population in San Diego city and county is now the fourth largest in the country, according to new data from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, and nearly 48 percent of them are sleeping on the streets.

San Diego’s homeless population rose to 8,742 this year from 8,506 in 2014, a 2.8 percent increase that bumped it into the top four for the first time behind the metropolitan areas of Seattle, Los Angeles and New York City.

San Diego was the 12th ranked metro area in 2007, and has steadily made its way up to the No. 4 spot, according to the federal data.

Comment by CalifoH20
2015-11-25 13:41:48

gotta go where you can survive outside. Santa Barbara is popular, lots over places to sleep near the tracks.

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 06:43:47

I keep wondering about the Poway Unified School District’s capital appreciation bonds. Who will be left holding the bag when the SHTF?

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 06:57:23

Not the public unions or their bought and paid for political hacks.

“A promise is a promise”

Even if you were not yet born when the bonds were sold, you are still going to pay for it.

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 07:15:25

We rent, and plan to be out of PUSD before the SHTF.

What I don’t get is why anyone would buy a home in an area where massive future property tax increases are baked into the cake. Could Proposition 13 be a factor?

Comment by In Colorado
2015-11-25 09:16:41

“A promise is a promise”

A lot of those promises are gonna be broken.

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 07:08:51

Reading this story reminded me that the West Contra Costa Unified School District was bankrupt a couple of decades ago when we lived there.

National Public Radio
School District Owes $1 Billion On $100 Million Loan
Updated March 21, 2014 4:10 PM ET
Richard Gonzales
All Things Considered

More than 200 school districts across California are taking a second look at the high price of the debt they’ve taken on using risky financial arrangements. Collectively, the districts have borrowed billions in loans that defer payments for years — leaving many districts owing far more than they borrowed.

In 2010, officials at the West Contra Costa School District, just east of San Francisco, were in a bind. The district needed $2.5 million to help secure a federally subsidized $25 million loan to build a badly needed elementary school.

Charles Ramsey, president of the school board, says he needed that $2.5 million upfront, but the district didn’t have it.

“We’d be foolish not to take advantage of getting $25 million” when the district had to spend just $2.5 million to get it, Ramsey says. “The only way we could do it was with a [capital appreciation bond].”

Those bonds, known as CABs, are unlike typical bonds, where a school district is required to make immediate and regular payments. Instead, CABs allow districts to defer payments well into the future — by which time lots of interest has accrued.

In the West Contra Costa Schools’ case, that $2.5 million bond will cost the district a whopping $34 million to repay.

‘The School District Equivalent Of A Payday Loan’

Ramsey says it was a good deal, because his district is getting a brand-new $25 million school. “You’d take that any day,” he says. “Why would you leave $25 million on the table? You would never leave $25 million on the table.”

But that doesn’t make the arrangement a good deal, says California State Treasurer Bill Lockyer. “It’s the school district equivalent of a payday loan or a balloon payment that you might obligate yourself for,” Lockyer says. “So you don’t pay for, maybe, 20 years — and suddenly you have a spike in interest rates that’s extraordinary.”

Lockyer is poring through a database collected by the Los Angeles Times of school districts that have recently used capital appreciation bonds. In total, districts have borrowed about $3 billion to finance new school construction, maintenance and educational materials. But the actual payback on those loans will exceed $16 billion.

Some of the bonds can be refinanced, but most cannot, Lockyer says.

Perhaps the best example of the CAB issue is suburban San Diego’s Poway Unified School District, which borrowed a little more than $100 million. But “debt service will be almost $1 billion,” Lockyer says. “So, over nine times amount of the borrowing. There are worse ones, but that’s pretty bad.”

A Statewide Problem

The superintendent of the Poway School District, John Collins, wasn’t available for comment. But he recently defended his district’s use of capital appreciation bonds in an interview with San Diego’s KPBS Investigative Newsource.

“Poway has done nothing different than every other district in the state of California,” Collins told the program.

And he’s right. In some cases, districts are on the hook to pay back anywhere between 10 and even 20 times the amount they borrowed.

But Lockyer says it distresses him to hear school officials defend these bonds.

It’s so irresponsible, that if I were on a school board — which I was, 40 years ago — I would get rid of that superintendent,” Lockyer says.

Back in the ’90s, the state of Michigan banned capital appreciation bonds altogether. But Lockyer says California needn’t go that far. He supports a series of reforms such as capping the payback of debt to four times the amount borrowed. Otherwise, says Lockyer, these bonds will be paid well into the future, by the children of today’s students.

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 07:33:26

“Poway has done nothing different than every other district in the state of California,”

It’s perfectly fine to do stupid financing, so long as all of your peers are making the same foolish mistakes.

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 07:55:23

No one elected today cares how it will be paid back.

Everyone today cares about keeping POWER.

Just look at Detroit.

Until the end, no one touched the public unions because all power flowed from the public unions.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 09:04:53

Poway is no Detroit. It’s more demographically similar to the OC, wbich went bankrupt in the early 1990s.

Comment by MightyMike
2015-11-25 10:31:01

The OC went bankrupt a long time before Detroit. That place much be a mess.

Comment by WPA
2015-11-25 10:46:46

It’s more demographically similar to the OC, wbich went bankrupt in the early 1990s.

OC didn’t go bankrupt because the economy, or because they lost a major employer like Detroit did, or demographics. All due to highly leveraged muni bonds. Google Robert Citron.

Comment by cactus
2015-11-25 10:34:46

Who will be left holding the bag when the SHTF?”

I lived there one year right off Community. My landlord was weird and always around it was creepy. POS rental they though was the best thing ever.

I like Ventura County now and don’t rent anymore. House needs constant work but is in far better shape than any of the POS rentals I’ve lived in which is why I think all the blackrock SFH rentals will fall apart in 10 years.

Ben can be busy the rest of his life fixing them if that’s his business plan . Probably get them cheap next housing bust.

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 06:52:18

Wow. And in the Washington Post.

Leadership. One day, America will see it again.

Why I am reminded of the boss in “Office Space”


Barack Obama, President Oh-bummer
WP - Dana Milbank - November 24, 2015

The two presidents stood in the East Room on Tuesday afternoon, united in their goal of defeating the Islamic State but separated by a stylistic gulf as vast as the Atlantic.

On the left, facing the cameras, was François Hollande, war president. He spoke of “cowardly murderers” who “dishonor humanity,” of a “relentless determination to fight terrorism everywhere and anywhere,” of “an implacable joint response,” of “hunting down their leaders” and “taking back the land.”

On the right stood Barack Obama, President Oh-bummer.

Defeating the Islamic State?

“That’s going to be a process that involves hard, methodical work. It’s not going to be something that happens just because suddenly we take a few more airstrikes.”

A political settlement in Syria?

“It’s going to be hard. And we should not be under any illusions.”

Could the Paris attacks have been prevented?

“That’s hard — that’s a hard thing to track. . . . That’s a tough job.”

Comment by butters
2015-11-25 07:11:07

He spoke of “cowardly murderers” who “dishonor humanity,” of a “relentless determination to fight terrorism everywhere and anywhere,” of “an implacable joint response,” of “hunting down their leaders” and “taking back the land.”

Hollande needs to bomb Paris and Brussels rite now. If not STFU!

Comment by palmetto
2015-11-25 07:11:20

I looked up the word “hapless” in the dictionary and right next to it was a photo of Francois Hollande.

Lol, and they call Trump a blowhard.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2015-11-25 10:17:09

and they call Trump a blowhard.

A blowhard? It’s way more serious. They’re rightfully calling Trump a clear and present danger to the security and ideals of America itself.

“…racism and religious bigotry pose a much greater threat to the security of this country, to the workings of democracy, than the threat of a Syrian infiltrator or the undocumented worker”

The falsifications of Donald Trump: Demagoguery and bigotry endanger America’s security

The battleground of the 2016 presidential campaign is rapidly becoming a vast field of falsehoods dissected by sewer trenches of bigotry….demagoguery, prejudice and outright lies…..

…What’s fundamentally wrong, however, is that the ugly stench of racism and religious bigotry is permeating one of our great political parties, the party of Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower. The stench is translating into ugliness at Trump rallies, where the beating of protesters is reminiscent of George Wallace’s segregationist crusade of 47 years ago.

Quite frankly, racism and religious bigotry pose a much greater threat to the security of this country, to the workings of democracy, than the threat of a Syrian infiltrator or the undocumented worker from Central America trying to keep body, soul and family together..

Comment by WPA
2015-11-25 10:52:34

+1 Rio. As I’ve posted before, Trump is a trojan horse candidate. What you see today is not what you’re going to get after Inauguration Day. He’ll rely on Average Joe’s support to get elected then serve the interests of the oligarchy once in office.

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Comment by redmondjp
2015-11-26 00:11:59

That is a complete metric ton of poppycock. Racism? Seriously?

Islam is the greatest threat to any western country, period.

See Europe.

Any so-called religion that believes not in separation of state and religion, but instead that their religion IS the state, is fundamentally incompatible with western civilization.

And personally, I’m completely OK with banning anybody from entering this country who thinks that women are property of men, and that no such crime as rape even exists. We have fought for too long in this country to get where we are to go backwards by several centuries.

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Comment by butters
2015-11-25 07:12:51

Another angle - one wants to get reelected, other one can’t.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
Comment by In Colorado
2015-11-25 09:18:09

How do you say “Allahu Ackbar” in French?

Comment by butters
2015-11-25 10:11:50

Voulez-vous coucher avec moi?

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Comment by CalifoH20
2015-11-25 12:55:53


Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 07:00:55

In the land of total gun bans and every democrat gun safety law…


Chicago homicides
Chicago Tribune | 11/25/15

433 homicides so far in 2015

435 homicides in all of 2014


Why is obama and BLM silent when blacks kill blacks?

Comment by MightyMike
2015-11-25 07:21:52

Someone posted a link to this story a week or so ago. It shows that the claim that Chicago bans guns is false.

Uber driver, licensed to carry gun, shoots gunman in Logan Square

Authorities say no charges will be filed against an Uber driver who shot and wounded a gunman who opened fire on a crowd of people in Logan Square over the weekend.

The driver had a concealed-carry permit and acted in the defense of himself and others, Assistant State’s Attorney Barry Quinn said in court Sunday.

A group of people had been walking in front of the driver around 11:50 p.m. Friday in the 2900 block of North Milwaukee Avenue when Everardo Custodio, 22, began firing into the crowd, Quinn said.

The driver pulled out a handgun and fired six shots at Custodio, hitting him several times, according to court records. Responding officers found Custodio lying on the ground, bleeding, Quinn said. No other injuries were reported.

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 08:07:20

Imagine if we had the same restrictions to own a gun as to do other actions protected in the US Constitution.

Like to vote.

Or to publish or buy a newspaper.

Or to get an abortion.

Let’s just say if you are poor or black in Chicago. You are not going to be able to defend yourself and the 2nd Amendment doesn’t apply.


Chicago’s gun laws keep getting tougher, but more people are breaking them
Mick Dumke - 04.12.13 - Chicago Reader

As Congress takes up some of President Obama’s gun control proposals, officials in his hometown have sent a message about where they stand, responding to a wave of bloodshed by toughening already stringent local firearm laws.

In 2010 the City Council hastily passed a new law that allows residents to keep guns in their homes after they undergo multiple background checks, take a training class, acquire a state firearm owner’s identification (FOID) card, and apply for a firearm permit with the police.

Comment by MightyMike
2015-11-25 08:55:19

You used the words “total gun bans”. Evidence shows that there is no total gun ban in Chicago.

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Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 11:14:00

Only to a liberal/progressive

Showing a simple drivers license to vote = unconstitutional discrimination against minorities

Spending thousands of dollars for classes and background checks and having a beg a police department for a permission slip is not a ban. Even as it basically cuts out 99% of the population from exercising a Constitutional right.

Hey - a new 1%

Comment by MightyMike
2015-11-25 11:44:32

That sounds highly unlikely, especially if a taxi driver can afford whatever is involved.

Your reaction to the article about the Uber driver indicates that the truth just doesn’t matter to you.

And requiring a drivers to license to vote would be bizarre. Of course, it would also eliminate a lot of people who live in cities, not all of whom are poor. Though, of course, it heavily disproportionately affect poor and non-white people. And that, of course, would be its purpose, which is why it is pushed by those who work for the rich.

Comment by CHE
2015-11-25 13:13:41

Well not “drivers license” but any form of “identification”

If it’s constitutional for the government to require me to show ID and undergo background checks to exercise my right to bear arms, why is not not constitutional to require someone to prove they are legal and eligible to exercise their right to vote.

Either one or the other - you can’t have it both ways.

Comment by MightyMike
2015-11-25 13:22:12

A number of things would have to be done to make that fair. We could start with disallowing driver’s licenses as a form of identification.

Comment by oxide
2015-11-25 15:53:49

States offer a non-driver ID that carries the same ID authority as a driver’s license. You just can’t drive with it. Why not just make it free?

Comment by Goon
2015-11-25 07:25:53

Because poor black males killing poor black males with guns that were never subject to background checks or registration does not support a grabber narrative for $200, Alex?

The grabbers want to disarm the white and rural population of America, because it is the last stand against globalist progressive tyranny.

Soros, Bloomberg, Obama, Clinton don’t just want to take your guns away, they want you exterminated.

Comment by Obama Goons
2015-11-25 12:02:40

Obama is corrupt.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2015-11-25 10:34:34

Why is obama and BLM silent when blacks kill blacks?

Yours is a non-argument to the issue of the state killing of blacks.

“Why is Obama silent when blacks kill blacks?” is an evasion - it’s an attempt to avoid the fundamental difference between being killed by a citizen and being killed by an agent of law or the state.

I thought you were against the overly intrusive state. A bullet to the head by the state is the ultimate state intrusion - crime pales in comparison.

Comment by MightyMike
2015-11-25 10:44:01

it’s an attempt to avoid the fundamental difference between being killed by a citizen and being killed by an agent of law or the state.

There’s an interesting point. The people who make these complaints about BLM are apologists for big government.

Comment by Neuromance
2015-11-25 17:58:07

It could be a case of pointing out the speck in another’s eye while ignoring the beam in one’s own eye.

In Baltimore, for example, the ratio of homicides has been 97% murder versus 3% police shootings since 2006.

According to the local paper, since 2006 in Baltimore, 67 people have been killed in encounters with police.

However, since 2006, about 2300 people have been murdered.

If the BLM protestors wish to do the most good, perhaps they should focus on ways to reduce the murder rate, rather than focusing on the tiny percentage that are police involved shootings.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2015-11-25 18:32:06

It could be a case of pointing out the speck in another’s eye

But systematic institutionalized racism continuing an ongoing history of the police/state killing of Blacks is not a speck in another’s eye.

It is a horrendous injustice that needs to be stopped.

Citizen on citizen crime is an entirely different subject compared to a full-fledged citizen’s relationship with his state/country.

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Comment by redmondjp
2015-11-26 00:15:14

A horrendous injustice, yes . . . BUT - if you hamstring the police to the point that they are afraid to do their jobs, then the citizen-on-citizen crime will do nothing but get worse.

Comment by Goon
2015-11-25 07:15:45

Even if tomorrow is Thanksgiving, today is still Warmist Warming Wednesday

2015 to be hottest on record, 2016 could be even hotter due to El Nino:

“This sucker could go down” — George W. Bush

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 07:58:24

Remember when Al Gore predicted Florida would be under water by now? Battered by numerous CAT 5 Hurricanes year after year?

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2015-11-25 10:40:28

Remember when Al Gore predicted Florida would be under water by now?

And I’m not getting any older because I thought I’d look a lot older by now.


Comment by Little Al
2015-11-25 20:50:32

I’ve heard it’s against the law in Miami to talk about rising seas by a politician. Just because information is hushed doesn’t make it inaccurate.
Cyclone about to hit Mexico right now to coincide with black Friday. Sure that happens all the time.

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Comment by MightyMike
2015-11-25 10:53:26

Maybe he was talking about mortgage debt.

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 08:50:46

Looking at an El Nino driven rain storm and a cold Thanksgiving here in SD.

Comment by oxide
2015-11-25 09:26:17

Isn’t that a good thing? You’re still under a drought, right?

Comment by cactus
2015-11-25 10:42:48

San Diego will have to compete for water with China. So dig up your lawns and don’t flush your toilets.

LA times

“The last four years have been the best ever,” said Leimgruber, 53. “I’ve made millions when in years past I’ve lost millions.”

His good fortune traces across the Pacific to China’s booming dairy industry.

Faced with dwindling access to water and arable land, China has little choice but to turn to U.S. farmers to help supply feed for the country’s growing herd of dairy cows. Packed with fiber and protein, alfalfa hay is considered the gold standard for forage, and the Western United States is the crop’s Côte d’Or.

“It’s all global now. We’re competing with the rest of world for feed,” said Cornell Kasbergen, a Tulare dairy producer who considered feeding his cows soybean and canola but discovered that export demand made them just as pricey.

Exporters are learning something alfalfa shippers have known for years: It costs little to freight goods on the back haul to China. That’s because the U.S. runs a persistently high trade deficit with China that hit a record $318 billion last year. Containers from Asia arrive full but often return empty.

“It is cheaper to ship a load of alfalfa from the Imperial Valley to China than it is to ship the same load to Tulare County,” said Michael Marsh, president of the Western United Dairymen, which represents 60% of California’s dairy producers.

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Comment by Little Al
2015-11-25 20:47:07

What an incredible fact. Tulare is only 250 miles away all connected by one of the finest freeway systems in the world. There must be stiff competition to put anything in those empty containers on the return trip.

Comment by phony scandals
2015-11-25 08:53:13

“WMO director-general Michel Jarraud said it was still possible for a global climate summit starting in Paris on Monday to agree steps to could keep the rise within 2C (3.6 Fahrenheit) over pre-industrial times, a target set down in 2010 to try to prevent a dramatic increase in extreme weather.”

“But the more we wait for action, the more difficult it will be,” he told a news conference.


Here is an audio recording of Michel Jarraud meeting with U.S. and UN officials after the - 157k -

Comment by azdude
2015-11-25 07:39:10

how is financial engineering working for you?

Comment by phony scandals
2015-11-25 07:57:45

Super Secret Settled Science

NOAA chief tells lawmaker: No one will ‘coerce the scientists who work for me’

By Lisa Rein November 24

The Obama administration is continuing to resist efforts by a top House Republican to gain access to the internal deliberations of federal scientists who authored a groundbreaking global warming study the lawmaker is investigating.

“If the committee doubts the integrity of the study,” Sullivan wrote, “it has the tools it needs to commission a competing scientific assessment.”

Sullivan was responding to Smith’s claim last week that the climate study, published in June in the peer-reviewed journal Science, was “rushed to publication” over the objections of some NOAA scientists.

Smith, a prominent congressional climate-change skeptic, has for weeks demanded internal documents and e-mails from NOAA he says will prove that the scientists manipulated global temperature data to advance President Obama’s climate agenda. Sullivan has refused to turn them over. The lawmaker then appealed to Pritzker, whose agency includes NOAA, and threatened to subpoena her.…/ -

Comment by Goon
2015-11-25 08:55:25

Warmists gonna warm.

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 09:00:08

Witch hunters gonna hunt.

Comment by phony scandals
2015-11-25 09:15:13

Here are the federal scientists deliberations that were used to advance President Obama’s climate agenda. - 157k -

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2015-11-25 10:57:14

Exxon loves me this I know
For the Koch Bros tell me so
We know the earth’s not getting warm
Exxon’s right Sci-ence is wrong

Yes Exxon loves me
Yes Exxon loves me
Yes Exxon loves me
Their “bible” tells me so

Exxon loves me so I’m told
Science cr@p is getting old
CO2 is good for me
Spewing it means we are free

Yes Exxon loves me
Yes Exxon loves me
Yes Exxon loves me
The Koch Bros tell me so

Republicans they know it well
Scientists can go to he!!
Because they want take our things
We act like act dumb ding-a-lings

Yes Exxon loves me
Yes Exxon loves me
Yes Exxon loves me
Their PR tells me so

Comment by Little Al
2015-11-25 20:41:26

Did you make that up yourself? I think you’ve got a hit on your hands.

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Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 20:54:44

Lola makes up alot of things.

Comment by WPA
2015-11-25 09:42:07

“If the committee doubts the integrity of the study,” Sullivan wrote, “it has the tools it needs to commission a competing scientific assessment.”

Rep. Smith’s partisan witch hunt is absurd… the data and technical adjustments were done publicly, out in the open, and peer reviewed with full transparency.

Imagine Einstein publishing e=mc2 with a full mathematical proof, for all to see. Then some bonehead congress-critter demands to see all of his personal correspondence to fish for anything that could be used to smear Einstein’s reputation.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2015-11-25 11:17:36

Rep. Smith’s partisan witch hunt is absurd…

A lot of science and scientists are a threat to the American way of life. Laboratories should be monitored and scientists should be put into a database. “There should be a lot of systems, beyond databases … we should have a lot of systems,”

I don’t think all scientists should be allowed to roam free or be allowed into USA either. Some scientists are like rabid dogs. “If there’s a rabid dog running around in your neighborhood, you’re probably not going to assume something good about that dog,” “And you’re probably going to put your children out of the way. That doesn’t mean that you hate all dogs or scientists.”

I think a lot of scientists are rapists too although there are probably some good ones too. And I remember when the twin towers fell. I saw thousands of scientists celebrating in New Jersey when the towers fell. I saw it. And 90% of white scientists are killed by black scientists -but that’s just a re-tweet-just a re-tweet, I can’t check all my facts.

(Republicans have gone nuts. A disgrace. )

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-25 20:07:11

“Laboratories should be monitored and scientists should be put into a database.”

Are you suggesting the NSA hasn’t already taken care of this?

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Comment by AmazingRuss
2015-11-25 13:00:35

Once the tree monkeys start shrieking, there’s no stopping them.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 08:00:40

“We’re Now Just One Big Shock Away From A Global Downturn”

It seems even ZH is late to the party sometimes.

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 08:09:43

Not even a smidgen…


VA doesn’t have ‘legal authority’ to require executives to return $400K
Stars and Stripes ^ | 11/24/15 | Cahn

WASHINGTON — The Department of Veterans Affairs will not try to recoup more than $400,000 from two senior VA executives who manipulated the hiring system to get their jobs of choice and received hundreds of thousands in extra money to relocate.

The agency has remained silent on questions about its decision to demote and transfer but not fire executives Diana Rubens and Kimberly Graves, and whether it would collect repayment of those relocation benefits. The original statement from the VA announcing the decision said the women had the right to appeal their reassignments.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 08:14:03

The author of financial best-seller “Rich Dad Poor Dad” has some unusual advice for millennials in his new book: Saving is for losers.

“You cannot follow your parents’ rules of money,” said Robert Kiyosaki, who this year published a fresh tome, Second Chance: For Your Money, Your Life and Our World. “The old rules were you go to school, you get a job, you work hard, you save money and you invest for the long term in the stock market.”

But now, he says, the rules are now reversed.

“Savers are losers. And many parents are still telling their kids to save money,” he told CNBC. “Why would you save money when every central bank is printing money?”

Comment by Bill, just south of Irvine
2015-11-25 08:36:43

I may be a loser, but not in personal finance. I saved quite a lot. I proved Kiyosaki wrong.

Diversify, dollar cost average, stay debt free. All it takes.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 08:39:25

Would your system work for a millenial?

Comment by Bill, just south of Irvine
2015-11-25 08:43:39

No. Diversifying is for people over age 40.

Millenials should be fully into stock funds and any savings should be in Bitcoin, Litecoin, dogecoin and silver.

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Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 08:51:21

….. and holding onto every dollar they can lay their hands on.

Remember….. liquidate assets, save your cash and stay out of debt. You’ll thank us later.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 09:00:46

….. and holding onto every dollar they can lay their hands on.

Rich Dad says you’re a loser.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 09:39:01

And I say you’re a Lola.

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 09:45:29

Only if you could talk about it.


The Looming Land Of The Not-So-Free: 40% Of Millennials Would Censor Offensive Speech
ZeroHedge - 11/25/2015

A new study by Pew Research shows that American Millennials are far more likely to support the government banning offensive speech about minority groups than other generations.

Of those aged 18-34, 40 percent support censoring offensive speech.

“We asked whether people believe that citizens should be able to make public statements that are offensive to minority groups, or whether the government should be able to prevent people from saying these things. Four-in-ten Millennials say the government should be able to prevent people publicly making statements that are offensive to minority groups.”

There’s also a difference in education levels and support for limiting speech.

Those with a high school degree or less are 9-percentage-points more likely to support censorship.

You can draw your own conclusions with that last statistic.

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Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 10:55:44

Those with a high school degree or less are 9-percentage-points more likely to support censorship.

You can draw your own conclusions with that last statistic.

Thanks, I will conclude that Trump’s voters are more likely to support censorship.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 08:46:50

“New Home Sales Miss As Median Price Drops To Lowest In 13 Months”

Comment by samk
2015-11-25 09:27:22

Wasn’t Kiyosaki the role model of that Ukrainian kid whose real estate empire went down in flames due to liar loans and other fraud?

Comment by redmondjp
2015-11-26 00:19:03

You mean Casey Serin. What a loser. His family picked the right country to come to, I’ll give them that much.

Comment by Cracker Bob
2015-11-25 10:13:23

Gee-whiz, is one of Robert’s great “get-rich-quick” seminars coming to my town soon?

Comment by redmondjp
2015-11-26 00:20:20

Well of course it is! That’s how Robert gets rich quick. Which is how the big Amway earners do it as well - the money is in the seminars, not in selling soap.

Comment by palmetto
2015-11-25 08:40:23

I really don’t know if the subtitles are an actual translation of what these guys are discussing, but supposedly this is Egyptian news media discussing Obama. Funny.

Comment by Bill, just south of Irvine
2015-11-25 08:42:02

Two year note yield continue to rage. Three year note yields too!

My buddy texted me last night and said his Hollywood house that he owns is Zillowed at $1,000,000.

I told him to sell. From what I understand, it is old, it is a dump, though he has tenants. He paid a lot for maintenance. Last big project to replace old sewer pipes.

I said to watch the five year note yields. When you see them take off, you should sell. If he is lucky he would get $900k. He inherited the house from his aunt and he thought it was worth $500k.

Zillow could be wrong, I know.

Five year note yields have been on a plateau around 1.5% for over a year.

Comment by cactus
2015-11-25 10:46:58

What do you have to rent a million dollar house for to make sense ?

5K a month ?

Comment by Bill, just south of Irvine
2015-11-25 22:03:59

He probably rents it out for $2,000.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 08:54:30


Nantucket County, MA Housing Prices Crater 10% YoY

Comment by Bill, just south of Irvine
2015-11-25 08:57:27

Loaded up on more gold and platinum yesterday in L.A. Coin shop did not have quarter ounce platinum. I keep trying to get ahold of those. They did have half ounce and gave me a few in proof form for the price of normal bullion. Such a deal.

They are quickly running out of quarter ounce gold eagles but I bought the quantity I needed. I’m on track to fill my fourth pill bottle of quarter ounce eagles by mid 2017. That’s about 40 ounces worth…

Comment by WPA
2015-11-25 09:26:25

Why is everybody so negative about real estate around here? Look, the Chinese are building homes in So Cal, so everything must be okay, right?

First wave = Chinese homebuyers
Second wave = Chinese homebuilders

Chinese home builder Landsea to develop 550-home project in Orange County

“Chinese home builder Landsea plans to develop a sprawling 550-home community in Orange County, a sign that the Asian country’s slowing economy has done little to quell the interest of overseas developers in Southern California property.

Thilo Hanemann, an economist with the Rhodium Group, a research firm that tracks Chinese investment, said the slowdown abroad probably means more, not less, investment as companies increasingly look for more safety and better returns.

Since 2013, there has been nearly $3 billion worth of Chinese capital investment in California real estate, according to Rhodium. Those figures would account for residential developments such as Landsea’s, but not for Chinese nationals who are buying homes in places like the San Gabriel Valley, Hanemann said.

“The slowdown in the Chinese economy further reinforces the motive to diversify assets globally,” he said.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 09:36:11

“Negative”? Cheer up my friend and remember….Nothing accelerates the economy like falling prices. Nothing.

Sacramento, CA Housing Prices Crumble; Down 6% YoY

Comment by WPA
2015-11-25 09:52:05

The article was about Orange County. What’s Sacramento got to do with it?

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 10:08:36

Your comment was about being negative about falling housing prices.

What does Orange county have to do with it?

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Comment by WPA
2015-11-25 10:36:11

What does Orange county have to do with it?

Everything. It’s where the Chinese homebuilders are building, the topic of the article.

When I wrote, “Why is everybody so negative about real estate around here?,” I was using this thing called sarcasm. Everybody on this board thinks the echo bubble is going to pop and there’s sound reasons supporting that view. Yet, in contrast, here’s a Chinese developer taking a bullish and upbeat view. Hope this helps.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 11:05:58

It’s already deflating. Falling prices is a good thing.

Comment by In Colorado
2015-11-25 11:49:22

When I wrote, “Why is everybody so negative about real estate around here?,” I was using this thing called sarcasm.

I thought that was quite obvious. But it guess it went over some people’s heads.

Comment by CalifoH20
2015-11-25 12:33:49

does the depreciation start when they poor the foundation?

Comment by CalifoH20
2015-11-25 14:05:50

pour or pun intended?

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 15:40:45

Data my good friends….. data.

Los Angeles, CA Housing Prices Crater 7% YoY

Comment by WPA
2015-11-25 09:57:12

I wholeheartedly support this resolution. Texas will not be missed.

“A member of the executive committee of the Republican Party of Texas has proposed a resolution calling for a vote during the March 1st GOP primary on whether Texas should leave the U.S.

The Houston Chronicle reports today that executive committee member Tanya Robertson “already has support from a few other members” for her resolution, noting that she “got the idea for the resolution from the Texas Nationalist Movement.”

Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 10:15:01

Why don’t they just declare Texas a “Sanctuary State” and ignore any Federal Laws they don’t like?

Comment by WPA
2015-11-25 10:56:30

Enforcement of federal immigration laws are not within the jurisdiction of local officials.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 10:58:56

Doesn’t Austin always threaten to secede from Texas if Texas secedes from the union?

Comment by WPA
2015-11-25 11:14:02

Interesting. They could be a city-state like the Vatican or Monaco. Or be an island of the U.S. surrounded by a hostile nation, similar to what Berlin used to be.

Comment by Ben Jones
2015-11-25 15:21:56

Texas tried to get out of the union. The yankees were kinda adamant that we stay.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 15:39:58

Interesting to ponder what would have happened had Texas succeeded in seceding.

Would they still have slavery? If not, when and why would it have ended? If it had ended, would the ex-slaves have had full equality or would it have become an apartheid system? Would Texas have been our regional South Africa?

Would they have freedom of (and from) religion, or would it be a judeo-christian state?

Would they have a wall on the Mexican border, or free movement back-and-forth?

Militaristic or pacifist? Texas seems more the former to me.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2015-11-25 16:21:47

There were never many slaves in Texas. It won its independence only ten years before they joined the union and there wasn’t a big agriculture economy that needed labor. Don’t forget that most of what’s now south Texas would have remained Mexico if not for US wars against Mexico after 1865. Texans didn’t want that scrub land where everything that grows has a thorn on it. Plus, it was populated by Mexicans. The fight against Mexico for Texas was over the areas from San Antonio north. I don’t think Dallas was even a town then.

Comment by ibbots
2015-11-25 12:04:51

From the only in Texas file….

“Armed mosque protesters publish Irving Muslims’ home addresses”

“THE NAME AND ADDRESS OF EVERY MUSLIM AND MUSLIM SYMPATHIZER THAT STOOD UP FOR SHARIA SHARIA TRIBUNALS IN IRVING TX. LISTED BELOW,” wrote David Wright III, who organized Saturday’s armed protested outside the Irving Islamic Center.

Wright and other members of his group, the Bureau on American Islamic Relations, say they carry guns only in self-defense. “We should stop being afraid to be who we are! We like to have guns designed to kill people that pose a threat in a very efficient manner.”

Bureau on American Islamic Relations….I’m not sure what type relations they’re interested in pursuing but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t end well for the muslims.

Comment by CalifoH20
2015-11-25 14:32:23

The moocher state of Texas can make it on their own. Too many people on welfare there. It is like one huge WalMart/Waffle House.

Comment by azdude
2015-11-25 15:53:38

like the central valley of ca?

Comment by The Order Of The Golden Chainsaw
2015-11-25 16:29:52

more like rest of ca except for pockets of coastal areas.

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Comment by 2banana
2015-11-25 11:34:23

America was founded by a moral and religious people. Words like this today would be unwelcomed and attacked.


Continental Congress Thanksgiving Proclamation 1778
Pilgim Hall | 1778 | Continental Congress

1778 By the United States in Congress assembled. A PROCLAMATION.

It having pleased Almighty God, through the course of the present year, to bestow great and manifold mercies on the people of these United States; and it being the indispensable duty of all men gratefully to acknowledge their obligations to Him for benefits received:

Resolved, That it be, and hereby is recommended to the legislative or executive authority of each of the said states, to appoint Wednesday, the 30th day of December next, to be observed as a day of public thanksgiving and praise, that all the people may, with united hearts, on that day, express a just sense of his unmerited favors; particularly in that it hath pleased him, by his overruling providence, to support us in a just and necessary war, for the defense of our rights and liberties, by affording us seasonable supplies for our armies, by disposing the heart of a powerful monarch to enter into alliance with us, and aid our cause; by defeating the councils and evil designs of our enemies, and giving us victory over their troops; and, by the continuance of that union among these states, which, by his blessing, will be their future strength and glory. And it is further recommended, that, together with devout thanksgiving, may be joined a penitent confession of our sins, and humble supplication for pardon, through the merits of our Savior; so that, under the smiles of Heaven, our public councils may be directed, our arms by land and sea prospered, our liberty and independence secured, our schools and seminaries of learning flourish, our trade be revived, our husbandry and manufactures encreased, and the hearts of all impressed with undissembled piety, with benevolence and zeal for the public good.

Done in Congress, this 17th day of November, 1778, and in the third year of the independence of the United States of America. 1779 By the United States in Congress assembled.

Comment by Oddfellow
2015-11-25 11:51:21

The adulterous connection between church and state.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2015-11-25 11:52:18

America was founded by a moral and religious people. Words like this today would be unwelcomed and attacked.

Like these “moral and religious” words too?
Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the United States Constitution:

“Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons”.

The Three-Fifths Compromise was a compromise reached between delegates from southern states and those from northern states during the 1787 United States Constitutional Convention. The debate was over whether, and if so, how, slaves would be counted when determining a state’s total population for legislative representation and taxing purposes. wiki

Comment by Blue Skye
2015-11-25 19:48:12

Slavery was a 20,000 year old tradition in America when the English arrived with their own traditions of Roman Empire slavery. We’re very fortunate to have overturned this tradition in such a short time. Something to be thankful for.

Comment by AmazingRuss
2015-11-25 13:03:26

A moral and religious people that slaughtered everybody they found here and drove several of God’s creatures to extinction, while Shotgun Jesus smiled.

Comment by The Order Of The Golden Chainsaw
2015-11-25 15:00:16

Moral and religious slave owners more like it.

Comment by Bill, just south of Irvine
2015-11-25 22:05:33

A “moral and religious people” with their Sharia law. Whitch hangings and burnings. If God was alive he’d be an atheist. S,art people are atheists.

Comment by CalifoH20
2015-11-25 13:58:43

News: They asked George Bush how he would have dealt with the ISIS attacks in Paris. He said, he’d have invaded Cuba by now.

Comment by The Order Of The Golden Chainsaw
2015-11-25 14:57:18

Still better than incubating isis like omaba has done.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2015-11-25 17:17:16

That would be Bush and Bremer.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 16:51:09

How many other countries have made the tragic error of following the US into debt slavery?

“Sweden Warns Of Dire “Consequences” From Massive Housing Bubble, Heavily Indebted Households”

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2015-11-25 19:19:07

Control the news, control the sheeple.

Comment by Little Al
2015-11-25 20:30:23

Happy Thanksgiving everybody. Hope you are enjoying time with your loved ones wherever you may be.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2015-11-25 20:37:29

I’m in Brazil today.

Comment by Professor Bear
2015-11-26 01:07:08

Happy Turkey Day, or Crow Day, depending on your preferred delicacy.

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