January 12, 2016

So Hot That You Don’t Expect It To Continue Forever

The Detroit Free Press reports from Michigan. “One of last year’s big surprises for real estate agent Caitlin Phillips came after a client made a cash offer for $700,000 for a 1920s house in Ann Arbor Hills and they were outbid. She and the client were quickly back on the prowl for new listings and with a new sense of the strength of the real estate market. ‘Last year it just kept moving forward — we didn’t have any stop,’ said Phillips, with Keller Williams Realty in Ann Arbor.”

“An analysis by the Free Press of sales data for existing homes from 2009 through most of 2015 shows housing prices are finally back to prerecession 2007 levels across much of southeast Michigan. Higher up in the market, the inventory of metro Detroit homes priced above $400,000 has been growing and even outpacing sales, according to a recent market report by Real Estate One.”

“Lynn Caldwell of Sine & Monaghan Realtors stressed the importance of realistically pricing homes, even if the current market still appears tilted to favoring sellers. ‘The sellers who are pricing their houses right are selling them right away or they’re getting multiple bids,’ said Caldwell, who observed sale prices up 8% last year in the Grosse Pointe communities, and 10% in St. Clair Shores. ‘The people who still are not in reality and say, ‘No, I want to get top dollar,’ those houses are just sitting on the market.’”

The Star Tribune in Minnesota. “Twin Cities homebuilders gained ground in 2015, chiefly driven by demand for new apartments, according to a year-end report from the Builders Association of the Twin Cities. As it has for the past several years, Minneapolis was the most active city in the region for new housing. The city accounted for 1,470 of the new units. Edina was No. 2 with 604. The vast majority of the new housing built in both cities was upscale apartments.”

“One of the challenges in 2016 will be to attract a broader range of buyers, including first-timers and empty nesters looking for less space. So Pulte Homes is rolling out more affordable side-by-side houses at The Enclave, a new development in New Brighton. Those three-story townhouses will have at least 1,900 square feet and a three-car garage and will be priced in the $300,000s.”

From KTVA Alaska. “Imagine working a full time job but not making enough money to have a decent place to live. That’s a reality for some people in Alaska, according to speakers at Gov. Bill Walker’s Housing Summit at the University of Alaska Anchorage. Alaska Housing Finance Corporation Director Bryan Butcher said the median price for a home in Anchorage has risen to $364,000. He said a person would need to make about $80,000 a year to afford that. Average rental rates for a two bedroom in town are just below $1,200 a month. Butcher said a worker should be making more than $22 an hour to make that affordable, but many people aren’t.”

“‘Some people pay 60 percent of what they make just for their housing, so what does that mean?’ asked Butcher. ‘That’s money to pay your bills for clothes for food.’”

“Walker said one thing that could help is if the state made more of its land available for development. ‘I don’t mean give it away, I don’t mean just sign it over to somebody, but available in such a way that housing can be developed,’ the governor said.”

The Dallas Morning News in Texas. “Housing analysts expect the Dallas-Fort Worth home market to level off this year from the all-time highs reached in 2015. Worries about the Oil Patch shakeout and higher home financing costs have made analysts more measured in their expectations for this year. ‘Your housing market has just been so hot that you don’t expect it to continue forever,’ said James Gaines, chief economist with the Real Estate Center at Texas A&M University. ‘The state is just beginning to feel on the economic level the results of the oil price declines. If the state’s economy starts feeling the slowdown effect of the energy sector, it’s going to affect everybody a little bit.’”

“A cooling of double-digit home price growth would be good news in a market that was facing affordability challenges even before the Federal Reserve began hiking borrowing costs. ‘Buyers in locations are pushing back on the price, and activity is beginning to flatten,’ said David Brown of Metrostudy Inc. ‘Not everyone can afford a $350,000 or $450,000 house.’”

News OK on Oklahoma. “OGE Energy Center, once an ambitious four-tower proposal that was to be built this last year, is being put on hold as oil prices continue to plunge. On Monday, OGE Energy Corp. CEO Sean Trauschke announced the company is assuming ownership of the land, which was originally purchased by G. Rainey Williams Jr., and will beautify and maintain the property until an appropriate development can be secured. he planned to build two towers, a 14- to 16-story tower for OGE Energy Corp. and a second building, eight- to 12-stories, that would be developed separately as either housing or a hotel.”

“Oil prices were still hovering at $100 per barrel as the new renderings were revealed. Both residential towers would have consisted of 253 upscale apartments. On Monday, OGE Energy Corp. acknowledged their vision is no longer feasible and they are not interested in going back to the original, scaled down plan. ‘After consulting with developers, it is very clear that there is currently insufficient demand for additional downtown office space,’ Trauschke said.”

The Los Angeles Times on North Dakota. “Young men arrived by the thousands seeking their fortunes in the Bakken formation, an abundant source of crude oil cracked open by hydraulic fracturing and soaring oil prices. Yet while jobs were suddenly plentiful, there was almost nowhere to live. Now, after more than five flush years, oil prices are in a prolonged slump, the flow of workers has reversed. Fewer workers showed up each month. Some who did questioned why they would commit to a lease or a mortgage amid such uncertainty. ‘What happens if you move here and buy a house and then you don’t have a job?’ asked Francisco Real, an oil rig maintenance worker who commutes to Williston from the Chicago area and lives in a small camp.”

“Marcus Jundt, a developer and former mayoral candidate, predicted a ‘blood bath’ for real estate investors until oil prices rise again and workers start coming back. Williston is not like California or Arizona or even Texas, he said. ‘If you lose your job in Williston, you leave,’ he said.”

“Real estate prices have been plummeting as a result of the oil slump and the new construction. At one complex, a two-bedroom apartment that cost nearly $4,000 a month at the peak of the boom now goes for about $1,600. John Sessions, an investor in a new apartment complex, told the council that the occupancy rate there was 60%. ‘This is not what the investment community expected,’ he said.”




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69 Comments »

Comment by Mugsy
2016-01-12 04:09:27

“An analysis by the Free Press of sales data for existing homes from 2009 through most of 2015 shows housing prices are finally back to prerecession 2007 levels across much of southeast Michigan.”

This is great news because it means that the tens of thousands of high paying jobs that fled Michigan have returned and that there is no speculation whatsoever going on in their housing market. Detroit and Flint are next!

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2016-01-12 05:48:47

What it does mean is massive widescale fraud has returned there.

And here we all thought California had a monopoly on mortgage, realtor and appraisal fraud.

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-01-12 08:42:18

‘The sellers who are pricing their houses right are selling them right away or they’re getting multiple bids,’ said Caldwell, who observed sale prices up 8% last year in the Grosse Pointe communities, and 10% in St. Clair Shores. ‘The people who still are not in reality and say, ‘No, I want to get top dollar’

The article mentions investors buying houses, knocking them down and building big, expensive houses out to the lot lines. So now that Michigan is back to the all-time prices, we’ll get to see if it has to be 2005 for prices to fall.

If the bubble is demonstrated by the price, the mania exists in the motivation:

‘The people who still are not in reality and say, ‘No, I want to get top dollar’

 
 
 
Comment by Homie
2016-01-12 08:12:40

Some retard just rejected my offer of $39K under ask on a house that’s been sitting for months. Lord, I hope it’s an effing bloodbath in the next months.

Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2016-01-12 08:39:54

San Diego, CA Housing Prices Crater 8% YoY

http://www.zillow.com/linda-vista-san-diego-ca/home-values/

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-01-12 08:40:30

One does wonder why you wanted to be all in if it’s going to be a bloodbath.

Comment by Homie
2016-01-12 09:09:21

Because $39K under ask is reasonable for this house.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2016-01-12 09:15:54

Price/sq ft is?

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Comment by scdave
2016-01-12 09:17:21

Whats the asking price on the house ??

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Comment by In Colorado
2016-01-12 09:27:49

Because $39K under ask is reasonable for this house.

Will it still be reasonable after the bloodbath you’re hoping for? If you really think there’s going to be a crash, shouldn’t you just wait?

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Comment by Mafia Blocks
2016-01-12 09:32:26

Bloodbath? Crash?

There is only one solution to grossly inflated prices resulting in housing demand at 20 year lows. It’s not a matter of when or if… It’s a matter of how far will housing prices fall for demand to return to historic levels. Is it a 50% decline? 75% decline? Higher?

 
Comment by scdave
2016-01-12 10:06:58

If you really think there’s going to be a crash, shouldn’t you just wait ??

Thats why I asked for the asking price Colorado…For all we know his $39,000. under ask is a 50% haircut…

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2016-01-12 12:03:20

What really matters more are 1) his alternatives, 2) whether he really likes the house, 3) whether there is a low probability of him moving in the next 7-10 years, and 4) whether the house works well for him for that whole 7-10 years.

 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2016-01-12 12:16:18

No Rental_Fraud.

What matters is how much over construction cost of $55/sq ft is he paying for a ___ year old depreciating asset.

 
Comment by Karen
2016-01-12 14:46:14

I’m pretty sure from previous postings he’s in the Boston area.

$39K under asking in Eastern MA = still completely ridiculous

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2016-01-12 08:42:20

Bellevue, WA Housing Market Craters; Prices Plummet 6% YoY

http://www.zillow.com/bellevue-wa-98006/home-values/

Comment by redmondjp
2016-01-13 00:48:41

Try again.

Seattle area market hasn’t fallen yet.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2016-01-13 05:18:45

Study the data my friend. Study the data.

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2016-01-12 09:14:04

‘Your housing market has just been so hot that you don’t expect it to continue forever’

This is an economist! Actually in the late stages of a bubble people do think it will never end.

‘a market that was facing affordability challenges even before the Federal Reserve began hiking borrowing costs’

Higher borrowing costs?

‘Buyers in locations are pushing back on the price, and activity is beginning to flatten,’ said David Brown of Metrostudy Inc. ‘Not everyone can afford a $350,000 or $450,000 house’

That’s bad news David because that’s what you’ve got to sell. Of course, these were $150,000 and $200,000 houses a few years ago, but something happened!

Comment by In Colorado
2016-01-12 09:41:59

In my little burg houses that were 200K a few years ago are selling for 250K now. I expect them to be 150K houses in a few years as there are almost no major employers locally.

Now Denver, on the other hand, is a different ball of wax. Prices there have skyrocketed to dizzying heights that one would associate with SoCal, and my coworkers often congratulate each other on their equity. One recently closed on a 500K town home in the old Stapleton area. He and his girlfriend both sold their previous properties in a single day with multiple offers and bought the townhouse together. I didn’t ask if they got a loan or if they had enough funds to pay cash.

Also, have a nephew. He and his wife (they have a few kids) both recently got out of the military and they’re renting an apartment for about $1600 in a northern Denver suburb, which is more than his parents pay on their mortgage on their nearby home. The only reason they can afford the rent is the GI Bill. They are both enrolled in classes in a community college and are receiving a housing subsidy from the FedGov. They both have near menial, low paying jobs. It will be interesting to see what happens when the free cheese runs out. Worse come to worse, they could move back in with his parents as they have a large house.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2016-01-12 09:48:17

“Equity” is a fallacy.

Denver, CO Housing Prices Crater 7% YoY

http://www.zillow.com/denver-co-80209/home-values/

 
Comment by scdave
2016-01-12 10:09:23

Also, have a nephew. He and his wife (they have a few kids) both recently got out of the military ??

Q; Did they both enter the military right out of High School ??

 
Comment by Nashville grrrl
2016-01-12 19:35:20

The old Stapleton area was going bad back in 2007. Lived there for a short time with a friend in a very charming condo (each building had 4 units but was designed to look like one large luxury home). As I recall, the units were so in demand she had to win some kind of lottery to be allowed to purchase it.

I remember gorgeous flowers in window boxes on each home and walking to the grocery, ice cream shop and lots of restaurants. Then, section 8 rentals were approved nearby and everything went straight to you-know-where very quickly.

She decided to sell the day a policeman approached us in a park two blocks from her home and asked us to leave because he was worried about our safety.

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2016-01-12 09:21:18

‘first-timers and empty nesters looking for less space. So Pulte Homes is rolling out more affordable side-by-side houses at The Enclave, a new development in New Brighton. Those three-story townhouses will have at least 1,900 square feet and a three-car garage and will be priced in the $300,000s.’

Looking for less space, so you build 1900 sq ft, 3 level townhouses. More affordable, at $300,000. If you’ve ever been in one of these 3 level things, it’s all “clomp clomp clomp” up and down the stairs to get to the room you need to be in.

Who’s financing 300k for first timers in Minnesota?

Comment by bink
2016-01-12 09:34:08

I used to rent a 4-level townhouse. The bottom floor was split between a garage and an office. I can’t imagine having an infant or a toddler in one of those things. You’d need baby gates around every corner.

(I also broke my toe coming down the stairs because you get so used to having to run down them to get where you want to be)

Comment by scdave
2016-01-12 09:48:06

I used to rent a 4-level townhouse ??

Not to mention getting furniture in & out…That must have been fun….

 
Comment by CalifoH20
2016-01-12 13:40:02

I am no fan of the tri-level. Older boomers certainly wont buy them.

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2016-01-12 09:49:15

If you’ve ever been in one of these 3 level things, it’s all “clomp clomp clomp” up and down the stairs to get to the room you need to be in.

That might be a good thing for overweight Americans.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-01-12 09:50:14

Comfortably nestled between the railroad, the Interstate and the industrial park. For young people on the go. At least there is a bathroom on every floor!

 
Comment by rj chicago
2016-01-12 10:57:22

Ben:
Was in CO last August - went through several (like a dozen) of these die cut Toll / Ryland / etc. 55+ communities - the young were lining up at the sales trailer looking at plans for their elder parents - what got me was how packed in these ‘homes’ are to one another - AND the number of levels these newly minted crap shacks have. Man - I am near 60 yrs of age and the very last thing I want is to be going up and down stairs just to go from the bedroom to the kitchen - and yet - these geniuses at Toll / Ryland etc keep on building these things. I suspect down the road we’re gonna see a big liquidation of the die cut lot crap shacks as folks my age require knee replacements and can’t make it up the stairs with the mandatory walker.

https://www.tollbrothers.com/luxury-homes-for-sale/Colorado/The-Hills-at-Parker

By the way - the staring 400k does not include lot premium (whatever the hell that is), a finished basement or other amenities. HOA’s are around 200 bucks a month - this in addition to higher property taxes.

Sheesh!!

Comment by BearCat
2016-01-12 11:15:46

And what in the world does the HOA do for $200/month? Mow the lawn?

Comment by rj chicago
2016-01-12 13:05:47

Your guess is as good as mine.

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Comment by CalifoH20
2016-01-12 16:17:06

HOA - new roofs and defending law suits.

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Comment by Rental Watch
2016-01-12 13:48:50

If you have exactly the same model home, but one is located on a smaller lot that backs up to another house and has no views, and another is located on a larger lot (for whatever reason), has a backyard backs up to permanent open space and/or has an unobstructed view (is on a hill), they will be priced differently.

The difference in price is typically called the “lot premium”.

An HOA of $200 per month implies that there is a community center of some kind (pool, fitness center, etc.). The $200 per month would likely go to the upkeep of that amenity (Staff, insurance, maintenance/repair, utilities, etc.).

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2016-01-12 15:08:17

You never fail to spin up and gyrate some BS Rental_Fraud.

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Comment by redmondjp
2016-01-13 00:50:49

Did you say that while looking in the mirror, HA? You can’t handle the truth.

 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2016-01-13 05:20:02

There is no way around falling prices my friend.

 
 
 
Comment by CalifoH20
2016-01-12 16:14:43

http://www.richardsonproperties.com/?community=marsh-street-brownstones

here too, $1.8 mill in a town with avg income of $40k

 
 
Comment by Karen
2016-01-12 14:51:35

And it’s weird that these 3-level townhouses have 3 car garages. What’s up with that? An extra garage for the renter/roomie/adult child who will help you make the mortgage?

 
 
Comment by scdave
2016-01-12 09:30:56

first-timers and empty nesters looking for less space ??

Beter have a elevator if you want a empty nester to even peek at it…

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2016-01-12 09:34:07

“Empty nesters” aren’t looking for houses. They’re heading for adult living/old age facilities in droves leaving millions more excess empty housing units.

Comment by Blue Skye
2016-01-12 11:32:23

My idea of assisted living is a deck fox to help with the dock lines and a power winch for the anchor rode.

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2016-01-12 12:18:03

Your post is worthless without pics. :mrgreen:

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Comment by Blue Skye
2016-01-12 12:56:32

Here’s one of our favorite stops on the Ottawa to Montreal leg.

http://www.forgetthebox.net/the-guide-to-strutting-your-stuff-at-oka-beach/

 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2016-01-12 13:10:13

Nice. Quebec in the summer. ;)

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-01-12 13:23:22

The water is crystal clear and the dunes are beautiful.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2016-01-12 13:28:15

Canada is a beautiful place - in the summer. It’s noticeable that it gets cold for much of the year though, even when it’s warm. In parts of British Columbia, I saw 40 year old trees that were only 10 feet high. Not a very long growing season.

 
Comment by rms
2016-01-12 17:27:55

“…40 year old trees that were only 10 feet high.”

That’s exactly what struck me when I first visited Alaska back in the early seventies. It’s pretty much impossible to dig into the permafrost without a backhoe. In the summer the fugg’n mosquitoes are so thick you need a tent to get some sleep.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-01-12 19:05:54

They might indeed have a short growing season, but in season the fruits are very worthwhile.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2016-01-12 19:30:20

Yeah, while I was in Anchorage I would see these garden stories. Cabbages three feet across, that kind of stuff. With the sun shining 23 hours a day in the summer, the possibilities are stunning. But the season is short.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-01-12 20:23:26

“Cabbages three feet across”

Oh God no.

I am trying to be polite, but I am talking about the beautiful Canadian lassie that cruises with me in the summer, au natural.

“the possibilities are stunning. But the season is short”

Ok, that resonates.

 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2016-01-12 22:14:53

;-)

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Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2016-01-12 09:36:49

Potomac, MD Housing Prices Fall 12% YoY

http://www.zillow.com/potomac-md-20854/home-values/

 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2016-01-12 09:56:01

Seattle, WA Real Estate and Homes for Sale- 6,472 properties found

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Seattle_WA/radius-20?pos=47.05759,-122.862868,48.067388,-121.788359

Seattle, WA Price Reduced Homes for Sale-1,900 properties found

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Seattle_WA/radius-20/show-price-reduced?pgsz=15&pos=47.05759,-122.862868,48.067388,-121.788359

29% of all Seattle area sellers slashed their price at least once.

Comment by redmondjp
2016-01-13 00:53:37

20 miles away from Seattle isn’t Seattle.

If you want to see what the inventory really is, check this website:

http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2016/01/07/nwmls-2015-worst-year-ever-home-buyers/

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2016-01-13 06:27:27

Nobody is interested in your realtor funded website.

 
 
 
Comment by Mafia Blocks
2016-01-12 10:37:58

Global Debt 2000-2015

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-12/savage-deleveraging-global-debt-2000-2015

Debt nearly doubled since 2009. And twice the price will be paid.

Ooooooph.

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2016-01-12 14:47:04

‘OGE Energy Center, once an ambitious four-tower proposal that was to be built this last year, is being put on hold’

And down she goes. This is how the economy gets dragged into recession. It wasn’t long ago I posted Oklahoma articles discussing which zip codes had the most million dollar houses.

Comment by Mugsy
2016-01-12 23:55:27

Buh-buh-buh-buh It’s different this time!

 
 
Comment by Karen
2016-01-12 15:10:48

Oil Plunge Sparks Bankruptcy Concerns http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/oil-plunge-sparks-bankruptcy-concerns/ar-CCq6Sx?li=BBnb7Kz

“Three major investment banks—Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Citigroup Inc.—now expect the price of oil to crash through the $30 threshold and into $20 territory in short order as a result of China’s slowdown, the U.S. dollar’s appreciation and the fact that drillers from Houston to Riyadh won’t quit pumping despite the oil glut…

…Morgan Stanley issued a report this week describing an environment “worse than 1986” for energy prices and producers, referring to the last big oil bust that lasted for years. The current downturn is now deeper and longer than each of the five oil price crashes since 1970, said Martijn Rats, an analyst at the bank…

American producers are expected to cut their budgets by 51% to $89.6 billion…

Energy companies that took on huge debt loads to finance their slice of the U.S. drilling boom have no choice but to keep pumping to generate cash for interest payments…

…opportunistic firms are waiting for the wave of bankruptcies to arrive. Once debt is wiped out, oil-and-gas fields will be cheap…

“There’s no reason to be anybody’s savior,” said Chad Mabry, a senior energy analyst at FBR & Co. “If you can just get the assets out of bankruptcy, then you don’t have to save anyone.”

^Same thing with houses.

Comment by Blue Skye
2016-01-12 15:34:57

“The current downturn is now deeper and longer than each of the five oil price crashes since 1970″

This time it has a different twist. The frackers weren’t sustainable at $100/bbl. It was a credit boom. Bankruptcies were baked in the cake.

Comment by redmondjp
2016-01-13 00:56:47

I don’t know if that’s true - from the numbers I’ve seen, frackers were breaking even at around $75/barrel.

Clearly at current prices, they are completely hosed. Time to head to ND and pick up some lightly-used RVs and crew-cab pickups at pennies on the dollar! Maybe some oil drilling equipment, if you’ve got that kind of coin.

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2016-01-12 15:53:37

‘an environment “worse than 1986” for energy prices and producers’

I never thought I would hear those words. Dark times back then. We discovered we had a real estate bubble though - the real economy destroyer. I wonder if there’s one now?

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-01-12 18:57:03

I just got this in an email:

‘The U.S. Energy Information Administration’s ( http://www.eia.gov ) new “Today in Energy” brief looks at how major oil, natural gas, and coal-producing states have seen a drop in their severance tax revenue because of declining fossil fuel prices.’

“Several states that collect significant revenue from severance taxes on fossil fuel extraction are re-evaluating current and upcoming operating budgets and taxation structures to address revenue shortfalls. Severance taxes are often imposed on the extraction of nonrenewable resources such as crude oil, natural gas, and coal. Lower fossil fuel prices, and in some cases, lower production, have led to lower severance tax receipts than were expected when revenue estimates were developed…Six states strongly affected by this budget squeeze are Alaska, Texas, North Dakota, Wyoming, Oklahoma, and West Virginia.”

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=24512

Look at Alaska’s graph in the report - almost wiped out.

‘Alaska’s severance tax revenue has fallen further and faster than other states because its tax is based on the operators’ net income rather than on the value or volume of oil extracted. In 2015, when average net incomes after operating and capital expenses were near zero, the state derived practically no revenue from this tax, versus more than $5 billion in 2012. Based on 2014 data, severance taxes accounted for about 72% of the state’s tax revenue.’

Comment by Blue Skye
2016-01-12 19:13:53

“The governor, facing a profound fiscal crisis, has proposed the imposition of a personal income tax for the first time in 35 years.”

“With oil prices down along with oil production, the state is facing an Alaska-size shortfall: Two-thirds of the revenue needed to cover this year’s $5.2 billion state budget cannot be collected.

“Many Alaskans are not old enough to recall times this bad.”

So much for the Permanent Fund.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/26/us/as-oil-money-melts-alaska-mulls-first-income-tax-in-35-years.html

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Comment by rms
2016-01-13 01:47:09

“Many Alaskans are not old enough to recall times this bad.”

I believe that statement since alcoholism is widespread.

 
 
Comment by Mugsy
2016-01-12 23:57:25

The other states will survive but IMHO West Virginia is screwed. Coal is almost done as a source for power plants.

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Comment by rms
2016-01-12 17:45:07

“Once debt is wiped out, oil-and-gas fields will be cheap…”

“How did you go bankrupt? Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.” —Ernest Hemingway

 
 
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