Cheap Debt Sustained The Frenzy
It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “Just how bubbly is the San Francisco real-estate market? Home builder Hovnanian announced Wednesday it would exit the market, calling it ‘frothy’ and saying that prices for land in the Bay Area are ‘lofty, almost speculative.’ San Francisco home prices are surging. They’ve risen by double-digit percentages compared with a year earlier for each of the last six months, according to S&P/Case-Shiller data, and have retaken bubble-era highs. Hovnanian also announced it would pull out of the Raleigh, N.C.; Tampa; and Minneapolis markets.”
“When energy prices dipped to 12-year lows in December, Sullivan Brothers Builders decided to try to spur sales of its single-family homes in the Houston area by offering a $5,000 bonus—and payment of buyers’ electric bills for one year. Two months later Sullivan Brothers is still offering the incentives, and likely will continue them through the spring, to see if the global energy downturn deepens for the nation’s most important oil and gas corridor, said Karen Travelstead, director of sales and marketing for Sullivan Brothers. ‘The price of oil has stalled some buyers,’ said Travelstead. ‘There were buyers ready to make decisions that kind of decided, ‘Let’s wait three to six more months before we decide.’”
“‘Overall we are seeing a little more caution about spending money in Dallas because it is part of Texas,’ said Paige Shipp, Metrostudy’s regional director for Dallas-Fort Worth. ‘That is a 2016 revelation. It was kind of no-holds barred in 2015 – buy as much land as you can, get as many deals as you can.’”
“Weld County, where much of the state’s oil and gas activity is concentrated, suffered a 1.3 percent decline in employment in the third quarter. Only a year before that, in the third quarter of 2014, Weld led the country with a 8.8 percent rate of annual job growth. But like a driver who blows his engine after leading for most of the race, the county dropped back to 331st out of the nation’s 343rd largest counties. Weak wage growth matters because metro Denver had some of the steepest home-price gains in the country last year. If wages don’t keep pace, home ownership will be out of reach for a larger share of the population, leaving the housing market more vulnerable to price declines.”
“‘Weld County has always been a commodity-based economy. Whether agriculture or oil and gas, we are very familiar historically with fluctuations,’ said Rich Werner, CEO of Upstate Colorado in Greeley.”
“Dubai developers are pressing ahead with their construction plans despite expectations that property prices will fall yet further this year, undaunted by memories of a 2008 crash. Property markets can be driven as much by sentiment as supply and demand, so such overt bullishness is perhaps understandable. However, it ignores a 19 percent decline in Dubai unit sales and a 24 percent drop in the combined sales value in 2015, CBRE estimates. It also echoes 2008 when that October the developer Nakheel announced plans to build a kilometre-high tower, which at almost 200 metres more than the Burj Khalifa would be a global record.”
“‘People who really want to sell are willing to accept considerably lower prices,’ said Alexander von Sayn-Wittgenstein, sales director at luxury property broker Luxhabitat. ‘The official price may be the same but when a buyer makes an offer that is much lower, the seller is more flexible and will likely accept a price they wouldn’t have a year ago.’”
“The slowdown in the Information Technology industry, leading to uncertainty in career prospects for employees, is a major cause of the slump in the housing sector. The India Real Estate report on residential housing trends by Knight Frank shows that 2015 ended with the lowest number of new launches and sales volume across the top eight cities in the country since 2010. Increasingly, NRI professionals in the IT space find remote-managing their let-out homes in India difficult. This has consequently seen a drastic drop in housing demand from these professionals, said Srinivas Acharya, Managing Director of Sundaram BNP Paribas Home Finance Ltd.”
“‘Thanks to these IT professionals and the availability of long-term loans that made housing affordable, the market had been on a healthy incline,’ he said. But things have changed now. For one, the slowdown has introduced an element of uncertainty to their jobs. It has also made them somewhat unsure of their choice of location, given their willingness to move cities pursuing new opportunities. All these have combined to contribute to their indecision on buying a house for themselves, argued Mr. Acharya.”
“With talk of an Australian property bubble ramping up, few businesses stand more exposed than the nation’s real estate agents. One of the east coast’s major players, McGrath, listed on the ASX in December and, if its share price since is any indication, Australian real estate is in trouble. After listing at $2.10, the stock has lost more than a third of its value in just three months. The principal of Parramatta-based real estate agency Just Think, Edwin Almeida, said the downturn fund manager Roger Montgomery warns of is already hitting western Sydney.”
“‘We’ve identified some areas were properties have already actually gone backwards by anywhere between 8 and 15 per cent,’ he told The Business. ‘Asking prices are dramatically being pulled back, in some parts of Sydney by up to 20 per cent.’”
“Roger Montgomery is convinced the McGrath float is another cautionary tale of buying into IPOs when private owners are selling. ‘When a highly knowledgeable, skilled and successful real estate agent is selling down their own exposure to their business, that for us is a red flag,’ he concluded. Perhaps it should also be a red flag for those who steadfastly believe Australian property prices cannot crash.”
“If China ignores the rising amount of leverage in the housing market it could lead to a financial disaster, according to Huang Qifan, mayor of Southwest China’s Chongqing, media reports said. Huang pointed out that banks have already lowered down payments for housing purchases and real estate developers and realtors are now offering loans to help people cover the down payments, bringing the actual down payment to between 5 and 10 percent and even as low as zero in some cases. ‘And zero down payments were the origin of the U.S. subprime crisis,’ he noted.”
“The housing market in first-tier cities such as Beijing and Shanghai has been heating up rapidly since the beginning of the year. Meanwhile, the price-to-rent ratio has continued to rise in recent years in China’s first-tier cities, a research note by analysts at brokerage Haitong Securities said on Tuesday. A house buyer in Shenzhen would now have to rent out their home for nearly 60 years to get back the investment, the note said.”
“In January 2012, I traveled to Oklahoma City for the first time to report on what was considered a surprising development: a U.S. oil boom. Still folded in my notebook is a typed list given to me that week by Gene Pflughoft, then the executive director of Central Oklahoma Regional Development. It enumerated the benefits of tapping shale: ‘Leasing the land, drilling rigs, built with hundreds of components, thousands of employees; trucks to deliver drilling rigs; drilling: many employees, highly skilled; training facilities, teachers, cooks, coordinators, janitors. Restaurants full. Motels full. Welding shops opening.’”
“The list now reads like a prediction of everything that’s being lost in the bust. The last bust began in 1982 and tipped the state into a slump that lasted decades. Politicians said they’d diversify the economy. But the present just echoes the past. In 1982 the oil industry paid 13 percent of worker earnings in Oklahoma, according to the Kansas City Fed. At the end of 2014, it was 14 percent.”
“As Stanley Druckenmiller, an investor with one of the best long-term records in money management, said of Texans in January 2015: ‘Those guys know how to gamble, and if you let them stick a hole in the ground with your money, they’re going to do it.’ Shale wasn’t sustaining the frenzy; cheap debt was.”
“At the State Capitol building, built on an oil well, State Representative Lewis Moore pulls up the posh suburb of Edmond on his Zillow app; blue dots marking foreclosures and pre-foreclosures cloud the screen. He lives in and represents Edmond, home to some of the state’s best-paid oil professionals. ‘It’s not good,’ he says, zooming in on a house with a pool. ‘It’s not good that it can happen this fast.’”
“Tom Kashatus remembers the good old days when his community was a booming coal town. A generation later, his hometown is plagued with a 48 percent poverty rate and more than half of adults are out of work. One in five lack a high school diploma. Nearly a third of homes sit vacant, many in deteriorating condition. Those troubling statistics make the Glen Lyon section of Newport Township the most distressed place in Pennsylvania, according to a report published by a Washington, D.C.-based think tank.”
“Newport Township Commissioner Paul Czapracki, who lived in Glen Lyon most of his life, said news of the report was ‘disheartening.’ Czapracki lamented the fact that many Glen Lyon homes once occupied by coal mining families who built the town are now abandoned. The study found 31 percent of properties in Glen Lyon are vacant. ‘Glen Lyon was one of the richest towns around,’ Czapracki said, recalling the great memories he’s heard of yesteryear. ‘The amount of money that flowed through here was unbelievable.’”
I’m no big friend of the oil industry. In fact, since I have some solar panels on my roof, some here might say I’m a “libtard environmentalist.”
Even so, I can’t for the life of me figure out why all these people who want to reduce free trade with China are silent when Saudi Arabia wipes out our oil industry — because their lifestyle is so reliant on cheap gasoline.
If it were up to me, there would be a 90 percent tax (paid by the refiner or applied proportionally if finished products were imported) on the difference between the purchase price of oil and $100 per barrel. You can buy it from U.S. producers, or import it, but your cost will not be that different. Perhaps long term contracts and reliability of supply would be more important.
As it is, lower oil prices discourage domestic production, alternative energy and conservation. And import dependence is bad for the economy and foreign policy, even if you don’t believe in global warming.
https://larrylittlefield.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/update-oil-sugar-and-35-now-41-wasted-years/
Get a grip.
If you want to pay more for everything, feel free. But remember….
Nothing accelerates the economy, creates jobs and raises the standard of living like falling prices to dramatically lower and more affordable levels. Nothing.
Thus you are in favor of the expansion of trade with low-wage countries, and not worried about “fair trade?”
Those against free trade and immigration, who seem to be growing in number, do want to pay more for everything.
Except gasoline.
Domestic producers are profitable at $10/bbl.
What is your issue falling fuel prices to dramatically lower and more affordable levels accelerating the economy?
Did you follow Ben’s links? The last one implies that much of the increase in domestic supply was barely profitable at high prices.
Cheap debt chasing speculative boondoggles has nothing to do with the fact that domestic producers pumping profitably at under $10/barrel.
Question for you. What kind of Orwellian world do you want to subject everyone to?
It must be Orwellian already. You are the only person who knows that U.S. oil and gas producers are making massive profits at $30 per barrel.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-11/oil-boom-fueled-by-junk-debt-faces-19-billion-wave-of-defaults
Profitable above $10/bbl.
Try again.
Cheeze and Crackers, Housing Analyst!!!
Yet ANOTHER new name on the forums here?
Hey there, ‘Jake,’ from HBB . . .
Seriously dude, you need to seek professional mental health counseling.
Refute it my friend.
Yet ANOTHER new name on the forums here?
Another name to add to the Joshua Tree list.
That’s good. I encourage you to do so even though you haven’t. However we will continue to post the truth.
per kwh cost here in VA is 10 cents so a grid tie system is a 16+ year break even- the utility offers 5 year “programs” as teasers
If it were truly less costly, utilities would dominate it. Solar doesn’t work.
Solar doesn’t work for a utility company, but it works great to increase overall energy consumption and siphon off taxpayer subsidies. This should be more than obvious because it has always been more expensive than conventional power. It is an ecological and financial disaster of massive proportions. In a rational world, we would not promote such a wasteful program when oil was at peak price, but we did.
The biggest frauds put over on people are the ones that are in plain sight. Mania rules over simple logic, until reality arrives.
[...] it has always been more expensive than conventional power.
Even the NRDC, which advocates FOR solar, has this to say about cost:
Computers were more expensive that paper and pencils once. Like computing power, the price of solar keeps going down.
At this point, a lot of that cost is the bureaucracy, not equipment and installation.
Like computing power, the price of solar keeps going down.
As I’ve pointed out here in the past, that is a false analogy. Moore’s Law, which has powered the gains in computing power, does not apply to solar technology.
I couldn’t disagree more Larry. I don’t know how “finite” a resource oil is, but it’s real value is in what you can make from it. The fact we burn it the way we do is mystifying.
In any event , I prefer to burn up the Saudi oil first and keep ours for later.
That was the argument back in the early 1980s boom, in response to the 1970s boycott and oil price explosion. That the domestic production boom was a “drain America first” policy.
But that was a few wars and a couple of terrorist attacks ago. I’m sick of the Middle East. I’d rather buy bicycles and solar panels from China than oil from there. The less we have to do with those in the Middle East, the more they like us, and vice versa.
I bought a bike made in China once. Threw it away a couple of months later. The gears wouldn’t even change right.
They are better now.
And pretty much the only option.
Shimano, a Japanese co, has it parts made in China or taiwan.
“buy as much land as you can”
Bad idea, even under the best of conditions. But when it’s someone elses money or borrowed money, who cares.
Remember….. Land is highly speculative resulting in massive price swings entirely unfounded on fundamentals. If you’re paying more than $500-$1000/acre, you’re paying too much. That’s why land is referred to as worthless dirt. Besides, there is a globe full of land and roughly 95% of it goes undeveloped.
Weld County, where much of the state’s oil and gas activity is concentrated, suffered a 1.3 percent decline in employment in the third quarter. Only a year before that, in the third quarter of 2014, Weld led the country with a 8.8 percent rate of annual job growth. But like a driver who blows his engine after leading for most of the race, the county dropped back to 331st out of the nation’s 343rd largest counties. Weak wage growth matters because metro Denver had some of the steepest home-price gains in the country last year.
Uh … Weld County and Greeley are NOT part of metro Denver and housing is much cheaper in Greeley than in Denver. MUCH cheaper.
But doesn’t Greeley have a bad smell to it?
I can’t live in a place that’s gotta bad smell.
Glen Lyon barely qualifies as an Oil City.
Glen Lyon, PA (images)
https://www.google.com/search?q=glen+lyon+pa&biw=1360&bih=651&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwifjMGH5bjLAhVL8WMKHd3XBuEQ_AUICCgD
Coal City.
‘The study found 31 percent of properties in Glen Lyon are vacant. ‘Glen Lyon was one of the richest towns around,’ Czapracki said, recalling the great memories he’s heard of yesteryear. ‘The amount of money that flowed through here was unbelievable.’
Over and over, the idea that a boom will end is inconceivable. The idea that a boom will turn into a bust is even more so. But that’s almost always what happens. Look at San Francisco; house prices at all time highs, people fleeing to other states, tech stocks in the billions built on money losing companies. Like the Canadian guy said once; it’s boom and bust, not boom and boom.
Let’s not forget what caused huge amounts of money to flow through various towns and cities; the unprecedented amount of fiat currency pumped into the global system after 2007. Oil is a symptom, not the cause.
Honestly I’d let the place go the way of Bodie. Houses are all pre-1950 and not worth fixing and the lots are too small anyway. The Allegheny climate and soil is not good for homesteading or retiring. Nearest town (Wilkes Barre) is probably on its way out too.
lol.
Donk….. you come up with some real doozies.
Wait, where’s the doozy this time? I’m telling people NOT to buy these houses.
Instead, they should buy a 1-acre plot for $7500 in the western Appalachian foothills, call *you* up, and hire you to build a 3/1.5 1000 sq ft cutie patootie ranch for $50K, cheetos not included.
Darnit, I meant to say $750 for the land. Don’t donk me please.
I stopped at a diner in Wilkes and everyone was smoking butts
Black lung for everyone
“Just how bubbly is the San Francisco real-estate market? Home builder Hovnanian announced Wednesday it would exit the market, calling it ‘frothy’ and saying that prices for land in the Bay Area are ‘lofty, almost speculative.’”
Is the SF market ‘a bit’ frothy and the land prices not quite, just about ‘lofty, almost speculative’?
Another crash is only a matter of time.
“Another crash is only a matter of time.”
And money.
There are a lot of hints that the money that ultimately powers the froth of San Fran is going south.
… to Mexico.
Home builder Hovnanian announced Wednesday it would exit the market, calling it ‘frothy’ and saying that prices for land in the Bay Area are ‘lofty, almost speculative.’ ??
Frothy ?? Yes….Speculative ?? Yes….Developable Land is always speculative in good times and bad because the ROI is so far out…On small one-zz two-zz stuff its 12-15 months…On big stuff, its 2-3 years possibly longer depending on EIR…
With that said, I suspect that Hovnanian may be leaving not because of the frothiness but because the competition for the dirt is so great both from the Public sector companies (DR Horton & Pulte) but also from the Billionare private sector companies (Sabrato, Marcus, Irvine) just to name a few….
‘Layoffs are rippling through Silicon Valley tech startups as the venture market cools, and today Optimizely joined the list, cutting about 40 workers from its staff of 400.’
‘Siroker also delivered a tough dose of reality in his email to employees about the layoffs. He wrote: “In August 2015, we began our journey to Control Our Own Destiny, which means controlling the path we are on as a company without having to depend on anyone but ourselves. In order to do that we must build a business that makes more money than it spends. We set a goal of getting to cash flow breakeven and we have made tremendous progress toward this goal.”
‘Later: “I’m incredibly thankful we embraced this journey in August because on February 5th, our entire industry got a wake up call. On that day, public cloud companies collectively lost $28B in market value on a single day. Some of the market value has recovered since then, but the market has clearly shifted.”
Optimizely made the classic startup error of blowing a ton of cash locking themselves into a fancy newly renovated space in a super hip location. On top of that most of their customers are other start-ups running on the same conjured pixie dust. There is a lot of good stuff going on in tech, but nothing about this company makes sense outside of a startup bubble.
I wish that I had the personality to be one of these startup kings . . . to take a six-figure salary and collect as much of that helicoptered cash as I could, while making statements such as: “We set a goal of getting to cash flow breakeven and we have made tremendous progress toward this goal.”
No, there is nothing unsustainable about this!
This next crash is going to be 10X worse than the last one, as there will be no place to hide - last time, the tech bubble popped and then the air went into the housing bubble. This time they are both fully aired up and ready to pop.
Injecting unlimited free money into the banking system has a lot of side effects, as we shall see soon.
Suddenly stodgy “old school” tech firms, the ones that actually make money, will be the ones considered “sexy”
If profitability is the metric, then even Amazon has trouble Controlling Its Own Destiny.
And don’t even thing of looking at Amazon’s P/E ratio - it might make your head explode.
But itsallgood because they are simply reinvesting all of their profits into endless expansion.
Falls Church, VA Housing Market Craters; Prices Plunge 9% YoY
http://www.zillow.com/falls-church-va-22042/home-values/
‘That is a 2016 revelation. It was kind of no-holds barred in 2015 – buy as much land as you can, get as many deals as you can.’
This Curbed article is worth reading in full, as is the Oklahoma piece. More:
‘The significant decline in drilling activity in the Permian Basin plays a factor. The single family residential renting market in Midland has also been affected, noted Ivey. “Prices have gone down and inventory has gone up,” he said.’
‘Ivey believes this is due to many of the migratory workers – guys who were living in Midland and working on the drilling rigs. “The people it took to operate those units were a migratory workforce. We saw a lot of them come in from places like El Paso, where the husband came and left the mother and children at home,” said Ivey. “When the overtime stopped and drilling activity slowed down, those workers probably went back home. They aren’t going to be re-leasing their homes.”
‘Sullivan Brothers is responsible for building all of the homes in Harper Woods, an 88-home community in Springwoods Village. Right now, the community is halfway built out and Sullivan expects it to be fully built out within another year to year-and-a-half.’
‘Sullivan said 40 percent of Harper Woods homes are ExxonMobil or Southwestern Energy clients; the rest are professionals in other industries. Prices for Harper Woods homes range from $350,000 to $650,000. Sullivan said home prices have not been impacted heavily by the price of oil. “Our clients are not buying starter homes. These little spikes in the market, you have to get through it … and hold your prices,” said Sullivan.’
‘Sullivan said Harper Woods currently has five built un-sold homes. Typically, they keep five to 10 available homes. They’re not overly concerned with the present market shift. “This is our third down cycle. We’re in it for the long haul.”
‘Sandie Parker, realtor for Martha Turner Sotheby’s International Realty, said homes ranging in price from $300,000 to $500,000 will be the safest. Parker works specifically in the Energy Corridor of Houston, an area which encompasses several energy companies including BP America, Shell Oil Company and ConocoPhillips.’
“Houses priced above or below those numbers will be impacted more,” she said. “I am seeing homes in the million dollar range drop in price and sit longer.”
‘Parker added that sellers who aren’t happy they have to reduce their home prices have got to be “a little more realistic” in terms of the state of the market.’
‘Sullivan said Harper Woods currently has five built un-sold homes. Typically, they keep five to 10 available homes. They’re not overly concerned with the present market shift. “This is our third down cycle. We’re in it for the long haul.”
How many times have we heard this one before?
On the optimistic side, their margin is so wide they can keep slashing prices forever and still be profitable.
Ben, did you forget to include the hyperlink to the Curbed article? I couldn’t find it.
It’s up there. Here it is again:
http://www.curbed.com/2016/3/3/11154552/houston-dallas-housing-prices
Thanks - I believe you, but I still can’t see where it is (color deficiency) - I did find the one to the rigzone article.
‘Jeff Bush, president of energy personnel firm CSI Recruiting, said unlike other parts of the country, the Bakken lacked not only oilfield talent, but a population. With much of the early development work done, he said he was hard pressed to say economic activity would ever return to the “full throttle” levels of the boom years.’
“That’s what makes for boom and bust towns — when there’s nothing, when there’s no infrastructure, no service industry, no hotels, no residential, no restaurants — and then all of a sudden, all that pumps in. It’s all artificial. None of it is native,” he said.’
‘Moore pulls up the posh suburb of Edmond on his Zillow app; blue dots marking foreclosures and pre-foreclosures cloud the screen. He lives in and represents Edmond, home to some of the state’s best-paid oil professionals. ‘It’s not good,’ he says, zooming in on a house with a pool. ‘It’s not good that it can happen this fast.’
Maybe should have done without the pool.
Posh, in Edmond Oklahoma? It wasn’t that long ago I posted an Oklahoma article that pondered which zip codes had the most million dollar houses. And it wasn’t in the dozens, it was the hundreds. How could these foreclosures not happen? Do you think these well paid execs weren’t taking advantage of the low low interest rates to live large in posh Edmond?
BTW, I’d bet no Oklahoman has used the word posh in years.
Posh = a triple-wide, in that part of the country.
Posh on the coasts would be a urban crack den?
Here’s some headlines from a Crain’s New York email I got:
Manhattan luxury rental rates fall as condo buyers seek tenants
High-end condo prices are beginning to ebb
The RED Wrap: One57 funders revealed, one backer tied to a corruption scandal
We’ll have to see if any of these housing units ever trickle down to a price level at which there is massive unmet demand here.
Given the dark towers and price slashing going on, you won’t have to wait long.
Dallas, TX Housing Market Implodes; Prices Crater 13% YoY As Price Declines Spread Nationally
http://www.zillow.com/m-streets-dallas-tx/home-values/