November 26, 2016

Prices From Years Past Aren’t The World We Live In Now

A report from “The value of agricultural land, especially in the Midwest, is likely to continue falling in 2017, two experts told lenders attending the National Agricultural Bankers Conference in Indianapolis. ‘2017 is going to look a lot like 2016,’ said Jason Henderson, director of Purdue University’s Extension and former head of the Omaha branch of the Kansas City Federal Reserve Bank. Henderson looks for continued decline in land values of 5% to 10% next year, he said.”

“Rex Schrader, president of Schrader Real Estate and Auction Company in Columbia City, Indiana didn’t disagree, although he said some land sales this fall have brought more than expected. He agreed that land prices have been declining for the past two years, falling 10% to 15% in Indiana. While economists are comparing the current financial situation in agriculture to some aspects of the 1980s or 1970s, Schrader sees an important difference. During the 1970s, land prices were rising while farm income was falling, he said. Unlike the inflation-driven land bubble of that earlier era, the run-up in prices earlier in the current decade was tied to strong farm income.”

“‘I think there was sound fundamentals for why land values got so high a couple years ago’, he said. ‘I’m not smart enough to know how it all ends.’”

From AgriNews Publications. “Farmland values went down about 5.8 percent from 2015-2016 in Indiana, according to analysts at Farm Credit Mid-America. ‘Compared to other states in our region, Indiana farmers are going to have more pressure — given their heavier reliance on the corn and grain industries,’ said Dennis Badger, vice president of collateral risk management for Farm Credit Mid-America.”

“In spite of the decrease, Badger expects prices won’t fall dramatically. ‘We expect land values to decrease slightly over the next year since interest rates are expected to decrease,’ he said. ‘Now is the time to negotiate or renegotiate cash rents. For landowners, they should keep in mind that variable leases could serve as a win-win for both parties. It might call for a slight discount in rental rates today, but once commodity prices increase it would give them greater upside potential, as well.’”

From “For Indiana corn-and-soybean producer Jason Wykoff, determining how to handle landlords who aren’t interested in long-term relationships has become easier over 22 years of farming. Just this past year, he says, he walked away from 1,200 acres because a landlord had asked too much for rent when it came time for renewal. That’s a growing trend among farmers, according to Pro Farmer’s annual LandOwner Survey.”

“‘We find 44% of our members and subscribers are willing to walk away from a cash lease if that lease is not lowered going into 2017,’ says Mike Walsten, editor of LandOwner, part of the Farm Journal Media family. The percentage of producers who ‘absolutely will’ walk away if there’s not a significant cut in cash rents is up 2 points from a year ago.”

“Cash-rent rates are declining, which is good news for farmers. In Wykoff’s home state of Indiana, rates have been on a steady decline since peaking in 2014, according to a Purdue survey conducted in July. ‘I don’t think that’s reflective of people walking away from leases,’ says James Mintert, director of Purdue University’s Center for Commercial Agriculture and a professor of agricultural economics, ‘but more reflective of farmers having conversations with their landlords that prices from years past aren’t the world we live in now.’”

The Echo Press. “A weak ag economy in the coming year may be hard on farmers and landowners who rent out their acres. Pauline Van Nurden, University of Minnesota Extension educator out of the Willmar office, gave presentations in Alexandria last week on factors that landlords and renters will need to consider when negotiating contracts. A big one will be what kind of profit margins farmers can expect from corn and soybean crops. ‘It looks like it will be another tough year for producers coming up,’ Van Nurden said.”

“While yields have been strong in Douglas County the last couple of years, prices are down significantly from a few years ago. Tillable land in Douglas County rented for an average price of $85 an acre in 2011, then jumped up to an average of $112 an acre from 2012 to 2014. It dipped back down to $102 an acre in 2015. A 10-year average of gross income on corn land in Douglas County showed gross income of $722 an acre, with total expenses of $264 an acre, leaving $264 that could cover rent and provide a profit.”

“But projections for 2017 show $558 in gross income per acre, with expenses up to $480, leaving $78 for rent and profit. If rent is more than $100 an acre, there is no profit.”

From NBC Nebraska. “Harvest is all but over for farmers in Nebraska, and 2016 will be remembered as a down year, reaching crop values not seen since the 1980s. So, I wanted to know what it was like to be a farmer in this declining market, and I went to Nance County to find out. ‘We’re the only industry in that we’re told what we’re going to pay for our product, we’re told what we’re going to receive for our product and everything in between,’ farmer and rancher Ryan Sonderup said. ‘We have no control of what we get or what we do.’”

“2016 hasn’t been the best year for farmers and ranchers of Nebraska. ‘A lot of it is praying,’ said Ryan’s father Mark. ‘To know when to walk and when to run.’”

“Crop values are down - at times matching the lows seen back in the 1980s, but what has made this year’s harvest particularly troubling is it’s not just crop values. ‘It’s very unusual that the cattle market - or livestock in general, cattle and hogs - and the crops are at low prices at the same time,’ Mark said. ‘I’ve been through a cycle like this already,’ Ryan added. ‘The younger guys that are coming back from four or five, six, eight years even - they’ve never seen a year where they haven’t made money.’”

“While this year’s harvest has come and passed for most farmers, both Mark and Ryan agree the pencil pushing and penny-saving is far from over. ‘Taxes have gone up, rent has gone up,’ Mark said. ‘There’s probably going to be another low coming. Probably lower than what we’ve seen this year, but there will be a sales opportunity in between time.’”

“‘We all have to work together to come through something like this,’ Ryan said. ‘Plain and simple, you can’t afford to pay those high-dollar rents when commodity prices are so low.’”

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Comment by Ben Jones
2016-11-26 08:06:31

Re-posting this article from a couple weeks ago:

‘Farmers treading water during a period of sluggish crop prices are getting little relief from their landlords. Average net farm income in Illinois plunged from $107,000 in 2014 to minus $3,000 last year, according to Farm Business Farm Management Association figures.’

“If you were a salaried person and had that kind of swing in your paycheck, how happy would you be? Not very,” said Ruth Hambleton, who teaches ag economics at Southern Illinois University.’

“When he’s paying $150 cash rent and $50 is what you can really afford to pay, he’s giving that guy (the landlord) $100 for the honor of running his equipment over it,” she said. “We’re subsidizing the landowner at this point. Why do farmers continue to do this? It’s so they can hang on to that ground.”

‘So where are they getting money to pay rents? The answer lies within the colorful steel crawling across farmland across Illinois. The boom years of the early 2010s put enough money into farm pockets to pay for new machinery.’

‘Depreciation on those purchases is being drawn down and keeping the bottom line from bottoming out. There will soon be a time of reckoning, however, when depreciation will dry up. Farmers will then be forced to look elsewhere for relief.’

“Farmers are putting more money into their land rental agreements than they are going to be getting out economically. That’s especially the case in southern Illinois,” Hambleton said. “At some point, if this continues, the machinery will be used up and there won’t be any money to replace that machinery. And whether lenders will go through a whole line of machinery may be a different story. In 2015, for every dollar in debt, they had $2 on balance sheet to pay it. The bad news, they have pretty well burned through their working capital of cash. In 2016 we’re getting into savings accounts.”

‘The shaky balance sheets may lead many farmers to seek more favorable terms from landowners. But the advantage lies with the owners, Hambleton said, because there is still relatively high demand for farmland.’

‘And it’s not like landholders are getting rich. Annual returns average only 2 percent to 6 percent of value in Illinois.’

“Cash rents follow the land values,” Hambleton said. “Compare land values to the stock market. People don’t like the downward adjustment. They appreciate the incline we’ve been in since the 1990s.”

‘In Illinois, three-fourths of agricultural land is owned by someone other than the farmer. Statistically, cash leases are more common than crop-share agreements. That is a relatively recent phenomenon, as the balance tipped in 2006.’

Comment by scdave
2016-11-26 08:34:51

‘Plain and simple, you can’t afford to pay those high-dollar rents when commodity prices are so low.’” ??

It would be interesting to know how much of our farm land production is owned by multinational corporations…

Comment by scdave
2016-11-26 08:37:05

farm land production = Farm land ownership…

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-11-26 08:47:59

There are REIT’s still piling into farmland.

Comment by Ol'Bubba
2016-11-26 10:32:39

There are also institutional investors who have accumulated positions in agriculture lands over the past few years.

With the extraordinarily low interest rates over the past several years, there’s been a push into riskier assets.

From Investopedia, here’s the entry for “TINA”:

DEFINITION of ‘TINA: There Is No Alternative’

“There is no alternative,” often abbreviated “TINA,” is a phrase that originated with the Victorian philosopher Herbert Spencer and became a slogan of British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s. Today it is often used by investors to explain a less-than-ideal portfolio allocation, usually to stocks, since other asset classes offer even worse returns. Such decisions by investors can lead to the “Tina Effect,” in which stocks rise only because investors have no viable alternative.

Read more: TINA: There Is No Alternative Definition | Investopedia

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2016-11-26 11:48:53

With the extraordinarily low interest rates over the past several years, there’s been a push into riskier assets.

It’s not that there’s “been a push”, which makes it sound like the managers chose it—the Federal Reserve intentionally and forcefully pushed everyone.

When the pool of assets that are low-risk gets bought out from under everyone, the money has to flow somewhere; the central banks have made that low-risk pool so shallow that the yields are negative.

Thanks, Fed!

Comment by Old And Dirty
2016-11-26 13:40:56

The rational alternative is Cash, always. Increasingly valuable Cold, Hard, Cash.

Comment by james joyce
2016-11-26 22:29:10

Cash is very good, but diversification is key. Real estate is good, gold, silver, farmland, antiques, art, oil, carefully selected stocks. Since there are so many bubbles, an investor must be nimble.

Comment by Old And Dirty
2016-11-26 22:52:27

Comment by rms
2016-11-26 23:59:33

“…an investor must be nimble.”

aka liquidity… not real estate.

Comment by Professor Bear
2016-11-27 07:23:31

The TINA effect can lead to the BROKE effect at the point of asset bubble collapse.

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-11-26 08:40:57

‘Average net farm income in Illinois plunged from $107,000 in 2014 to minus $3,000 last year…And it’s not like landholders are getting rich. Annual returns average only 2 percent to 6 percent of value in Illinois’

So almost no one is making money. No problem, you might say, some of these guys just need to go out of business, that’s how the world works. That means pain, defaults. In a globalized world that means high cost countries lose GDP. What’s the lesson here? When you distort markets you get imbalances. Imbalances are difficult to sort out. Artificial interest rates distort the price of money, which distorts everything. QE is even worse. And remember these sky high prices everyone reflects on came in the age of ZIRP/global QE, meaning that’s how we got into this mess in the first place.

It’s not unlike the apartment bubble. I posted an article months ago with rents in Portland Maine having gone up 40% in three years an returns for landlords went from 9% to 7%! 2% is a big percentage drop. A 40% increase in rents takes a whole lot out of what people have to spend on other things. In short, it’s a big sloppy mess and it all starts with distorting markets. It’s tough enough for supply and demand to be efficient without these central bankers running around sending the wrong messages to consumers and suppliers. This is how you end up with a glut of luxury stuff and most people have less than a thousand bucks in the bank.

Comment by Old Dirty Bastard
2016-11-26 08:50:28

“Artificial interest rates distort the price of money,”

Lesson- Nothing destroys the economy and creates rampant joblessness like rigged markets and fixed prices at grossly inflated levels. Nothing.

Comment by the spider monkey
2016-11-26 11:06:12


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Comment by Old And Dirty
2016-11-26 11:13:35


Comment by redmondjp
2016-11-26 23:55:31

Hi Housing Analyst!

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Comment by Professor Bear
2016-11-26 10:32:31


Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 08:30:58

Chinese central planners have been jawboning incessantly about cracking down on capital flight (that is propping up asset bubbles in the US, UK, and Europe) - are they serious this time?

(Before clicking on this Zerohedge link, please stand at attention, put your hand over your heart, and sing the Russian national anthem.)

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2016-11-26 11:52:00

Translation: capital controls for the moderately well off while the politically well-connected and oligarchs have no problems moving their money overseas…

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 13:02:45

Inconceivable! The Comrades of Proven Worth of the Communist Party of China adhere to Marxist-Leninist precepts of equality of all the people. It would be heresy if all animals were equal, but some animals were more equal than others, as described in Orwell’s “Animal Farm.”

Oh, wait….

Comment by Mafia Blocks
2016-11-26 08:37:30

Last week I was told “Go to hell you old dirty bastard” by a group of SJW’s on campus of a new england university for wearing my Make America Great Again tee shirt #under# my jacket. Ordered 4 more tee shirts and I’ll wear them proudly all week long.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 08:47:46

So what were you doing jonesing around a campus, huh?

Comment by Old Dirty Bastard
2016-11-26 08:53:05

Old and wealthy enough to pull cash out of my wallet for a top shelf private university for both kids.

Comment by butters
2016-11-26 09:15:05

Oh tell the truth it was your rap career.×693/smart/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/A-39015-1450259990-7143.jpeg.jpg

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Comment by Hi-Z
2016-11-26 10:44:22

You mean top shelf private liberal leftist indoctrination university.

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Comment by Old And Dirty
2016-11-26 10:59:40

Aren’t they all indoctrination centers?

Comment by MightyMike
2016-11-26 11:04:42

At least their private universities. Stay away from those government-run outfits.

Comment by mcbain!
2016-11-26 15:38:28

We know how much your kind fears the nazis and accuses everyone who disagrees with you of being sympathetic, how does it feel to be a grammer nazi, albeit a failed one (their)?

Comment by mcbain!
2016-11-26 15:48:18

Whoops, my brain has seen so many misuses of their and loose I’m starting to screw them up when properly used.

Point still stands though, your side has become what you hated. Best to deploy back to Israel, especially as more of the tentacles of #pizzagate get brought to light.

Comment by rms
2016-11-26 13:11:08

“Old and wealthy enough…”

Must have been pre-artificial climbing walls, dorm concierge, etc.

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Comment by oxide
2016-11-26 17:54:24

Must have been pre-artificial climbing walls, dorm concierge, etc.

And pre-”diversity officers.” Yes, they have those now. (unless it’s Dartmouth)

FWIW, STEM majors are generally immune to indoctrination.

Comment by Old And Dirty
2016-11-26 18:42:22

Hey Donk.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 13:14:30

‘Fess up, Mafia Blocks: you came back to school to do the Triple Lindy.

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Comment by Old And Dirty
2016-11-26 13:52:01

Remember… Nothing accelerates the economy and creates jobs like falling prices to dramatically lower and more affordable levels. Nothing.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 08:39:31

PropOrNot - the shadowy outfit of anonymous “researchers” who took it upon themselves to brand 200 alternative media sites as purveyors of Kremlin propaganda - urges ‘Muricans to only get their news from the Oligopoly media and approved disseminators of The Narrative. Hmm. I think we’ve established who’s fronting the money for this outfit and what their ulterior motive is:

Obtain news from actual reporters, who report to an editor and are professionally accountable for mistakes.We suggest NPR, the BBC, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, Buzzfeed, VICE, etc, and especially your local papers and local TV news channels. Support them by subscribing, if you can!

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 08:46:37

Citizens! Your oligarch overlords and their media border collies wish to herd you into the green pastures of our incorporated neoliberal plantation! But those cunning Russian agents of influence are unmasking our schemes and crimes in a most inconvenient manner! Please trust only our annointed Real Journalists for your news and information, lest we be forced to put you in the Gulag for Irredeemable Deplorables some fine day!

Comment by the spider monkey
2016-11-26 10:57:58

I like the Russians for two reasons.

1. They’re not f***ing p*****s.

2. They make the BEST ice-cream.


Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 13:18:11

And because the Russians pay all of you Deplorables by the post for spreading their vile disinformation…with Comrade Ben rumored to have a dacha waiting for him outside Moscow for his fine work in running the HBB.

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Comment by Apartment 401
2016-11-26 09:03:06

Pending post with links from Salon and Huffington Post you will enjoy.

Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2016-11-26 08:49:50

‘It’s not unlike the apartment bubble. I posted an article months ago with rents in Portland Maine having gone up 40% in three years an returns for landlords went from 9% to 7%! 2% is a big percentage drop. ‘

I skipped HBB that day. Is it Airbnb driving the price increase? I don’t even think about Portland unless I am going to the Trader Joe’s or need to hit up the back bay for a walk. Other than that, it is bohemian ville with street parking minimalism.

Comment by ODB
2016-11-26 08:59:26

Funny how can distort the nature and history of a 250 year old city. Portland isn’t Portland nor is it Maine.

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-11-26 09:10:30

‘Is it Airbnb driving the price increase?’

No, it’s a couple of things. One is the renovate/jack up the rents boom that’s taking place all over the country. The other is that what’s being built is mostly “luxury” apartments. It’s been feeding on itself for years to the point that it’s a mania.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 08:54:12

Ron Paul unmasked as a Kremlin stooge! Gosh, I see it so clearly now…I mean some “researchers” used crowdsourcing to identify Russian propaganda memes, i.e. anything and anyone who debunks or disputes The Narrative. We must have show trials, then sentence these Emmanuel Goldsteins to the Gulag! Two minutes of hate on my command!

Comment by butters
2016-11-26 09:33:16

I was too unmasked as a Russian stooge.
Putin, where’s my money?

Comment by Mike
2016-11-26 10:31:46

too funny!

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2016-11-26 12:03:55

I mean some “researchers” used crowdsourcing to identify Russian propaganda memes,

I gotta say, I’m enjoying the beautiful irony in this crowd-sourced propaganda detection. It shares all the elements of guilty-until-proven-innocent McCarthyism, coming from the far left. Hilarious!

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 13:06:43

Google “China’s Red Guard” and “Cultural Revolution” to get a sense of what the collectivists and SJWs would like to impose on their “class enemies,” i.e. the productive and free-thinking members of society. Forward!

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 13:22:46

Two Minutes of Hate will be scheduled for 7 PM EST.

Comment by Apartment 401
2016-11-26 09:01:22

Double narrative as scripted by real journalists and their Southern Poverty Law Center ghost writers, which somehow failed to persuade enough voters in Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, and now even Michigan :(

What Is The Alt-Right And Who Is In It? The Frightening Rise And Rise Of The White Nationalist Movement:

History of the alt-right: The movement isn’t just Breitbart and white nationalists — it’s worse:

Comment by palmetto
2016-11-26 09:57:29

This is a bit of a long read, but well worth it to get the true picture of what American media (and additionally, academia) is all about, having been heavily infiltrated and controlled by the CIA and other agencies. Much of what is referenced is public record. ZH did an excellent job of pulling all the pieces together.

After the “financial crisis” of 2008, I expected the media to become somewhat muted, as various journalists and other staff were laid off. After all, that’s what used to happen in the past when advertising $$ dried up due to budget cutbacks.

Not only did it not happen, it seemed to me that we had a media explosion and this left me scratching my head. Having worked in the advertising and production businesses back in the day, none of this made sense. And then I started picking up clues here and there and realized that the “media” in the US had become heavily subsidized by taxpayer money and also money from “foundations”. So you might say it’s all PBS and NPR. This article, though, put it all together for me.

Also note that academia is heavily infiltrated as well. They sort of work hand in glove. A mentally softened, spoon fed and propagandized crop of students is produced to believe the swill peddled by the media.

As I like to say, it’s not so much the media itself that bothers independent thinking people. The real concern is that others will BELIEVE what is said. Each person that you personally can red pill on a one to one basis is a triumph over all this.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 13:35:57

Mother Jones (a “progressive” mag not yet named as a Russian propaganda outlet) did a great expose on the role of Real Journalists like the NYT’s Judith Miller in serving as a neocon propagandist and tout to get us into the war in Iraq.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 13:32:38

Buzzfeed had good, reasonably objective article on the rise of the Alt-Right and its implications.

Comment by phony scandals
2016-11-26 09:08:56

Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most of Us’

By Brent Baker | November 26, 2016 | 3:52 AM EST

On MSNBC, Andrea Mitchell insisted in a stock bio that Castro “gave his people better health care and education.” Appearing live by phone, she soon trumpted how Castro “will be revered” for “education and social services and medical care to all of his people.”

Along a similar theme, in an ABC Special Report during Nightline, Jim Avila maintained that “even Castro’s critics praised his advances in health care and in education.”

In a relatively tough report on Castro’s abuses, CNN’s Martin Savidge, in a pre-recorded bio piece, highlighted how “many saw positives, education and health care for all, racial integration.”

A meandering Brian Williams popped up by phone on MSNBC to ruminate and recalled how in his last visit to Cuba, in 2015: “You see the medicine system they are very proud of.”

ABC’s Avila went so far as to tout how Castro “was considered, even to this day, the George Washington of his country among those who remain in Cuba.”

Reminiscing about his high school years, via phone on MSNBC, Chris Matthews asserted that Castro was “a romantic figure when he came into power” and, Matthews wasn’t embarrassed to relay, “we rooted like mad for the guy” who “was almost like a folk hero to most of us.”

Comment by 2banana
2016-11-26 09:33:53

God Bless DJT


Today, the world marks the passing of a brutal dictator who oppressed his own people for nearly six decades. Fidel Castro’s legacy is one of firing squads, theft, unimaginable suffering, poverty and the denial of fundamental human rights.

While Cuba remains a totalitarian island, it is my hope that today marks a move away from the horrors endured for too long, and toward a future in which the wonderful Cuban people finally live in the freedom they so richly deserve.

Comment by Old And Dirty
2016-11-26 09:48:27

The guy was a monstrous bonafide communist who interfered with the lives of millions of people down to the minutae. Markets were damaged to the point where the populace were driven into a pre-industrial agrarian economy. They can’t even raise and sell a heifer or sow without permission and a tithe to CommunistCastro.

Need anymore proof of socialist failure? Look 90 miles to the south. Instead, Fake Media with glorify and honor the murderous larcenous POS.

Comment by jerzdebil
2016-11-26 10:03:36

Can you imagine if Bernie Sanders had become president and this had happened during his term? CNN would broadcast 24/7 for days video of the Bern sobbing uncontrollably in his box of prunes from the oval office while his eeyore looking wife pats him on the back.

Rough image bruh. It was worth voting for Trump just to avoid that.

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Comment by Old And Dirty
2016-11-26 10:11:02

There will be more than enough sanctimonious howling and counterfeit honor by SJW-In-Chief. Make no mistake about it.

Comment by scdave
2016-11-26 10:25:27

God Bless DJT ??

LOL 2-fruit…Who is DJT more aligned with…

Caesar or Moses ??

Pontius Pilate or John the Baptist

Comment by 2banana
2016-11-26 10:46:05

God Bless your delicious tears…

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Comment by scdave
2016-11-26 10:57:31

God Bless your delicious tears…??

Yeah right…Cry Why ??…Not who I voted for but the guy will not make any difference in the quality of my or my families life short of Nuclear war…So enjoy…

Comment by butters
2016-11-26 13:43:36

You are fooked. Nuclear war is what you gonna git.

Comment by MightyMike
2016-11-26 11:03:42

For decades big business guys like Trump supported dictators all over Latin America. They played their role in US hegemony over the hemisphere by supplying commodities and cheap labor to American corporations. Castro’s big sin was standing up to the global superpower.

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-11-26 11:51:56

’standing up to the global superpower’

They stood with the other superpower, the Soviets. Now the Soviets are gone and Democrats knock Russia and praise Castro. Will you be applying to the John Birch Society? Or get Mao’s little red book? Oh it’s all so confusing these days.


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Comment by Ben Jones
2016-11-26 11:54:07


Comment by MightyMike
2016-11-26 11:58:13

The US corporate sector never cared about that. They just wanted Latin America to be subservient to their interests. Nothing much changed in their attitudes towards Cuba after the Soviet Union fell apart.

Comment by palmetto
2016-11-26 12:03:11

OK, I’m laughing, but have no clue why I am. Who is the guy on the right? Juncker?

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-11-26 12:10:35

That’s LMAO-Mike.

Comment by palmetto
2016-11-26 11:58:05

“For decades big business guys like Trump supported dictators all over Latin America.”

For example? Had you said deep state spooks, I would have agreed with you. Were they working for the big business guys? Or was it the other way around?

“Castro’s big sin was standing up to the global superpower.”

Not so hard to do when he was backed and subsidized by the Soviet Union, who basically used Cuba as a R & R resort for its operatives. Early on those Mafia hotels were much appreciated, up until the point that the effects of deferred maintenance set in.

Still, having lived in Miami, I have to say there’s nothing better than a Cuban auto mechanic. They used to work miracles.

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Comment by MightyMike
2016-11-26 12:12:36

First of all, large corporations are immensely influential in Washington, DC. However, if you want a specific example, read this, particularly the sections about the United Fruit Company.‘%C3%A9tat

Comment by Old And Dirty
2016-11-26 12:22:32

Government power is definitely a problem Mike.

Comment by palmetto
2016-11-26 12:57:11

“First of all, large corporations are immensely influential in Washington, DC.”

I’m well aware of the DC-corporate nexus and as a resident of Florida, I’ve seen the US Sugar Corp drama unfold over the years. I’m also familiar with the Fanjul family, wealthy Cuban expats who relocated their business interests from Cuba to Florida. One branch lived up in Connecticut and one of my sibs went to school with one of the daughters.

I’m just trying to understand this chicken and egg thing here. Which comes first? Gov or biz? So the gov grants “licenses” and other favors to the biz and then calls in its markers? Like the FCC, for example, granting broadcast licenses to certain entities and then in return demanding to place operatives and news stories.

Or does the biz buy favors from the gov? As in the case of the Clinton Foundation, for example, or in the case of e-commerce companies marketing products made abroad and using USPS to subsidize their shipping costs?

Or does it vary, sometimes one, sometimes the other, sometimes a combo? We all know the government picks winners and losers. Of course that would be a matter of money buying the influence.

Comment by MightyMike
2016-11-26 13:33:15

You’re line of inquiry requires a belief that the government has interests of its own, as opposed to acting in the interests of groups within the country. I don’t think that that makes sense. The link that I posted shows a lot of evidence that the Guatemala coup was done to assist the United Fruit Company. Just a year or two later we overthrew the government of Iran. You can probably guess that that was done for the benefit of oil companies.

If the FCC were to pressure broadcasters, it would be doing so to favor some entity or group. Businesses are generally most influential.

Comment by Karen
2016-11-26 12:30:46

Please provide us with some evidence that Donald Trump has supported Latin American dictators.

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Comment by MightyMike
2016-11-26 13:07:28

There may not be any. But some of his upcoming State Department appointments will probably be found to have supported such dictators in the past. Wait and see.

Comment by rms
2016-11-26 13:15:29

Eating bananas indirectly supports Latin American corruption.

Comment by Old And Dirty
2016-11-26 13:42:33

Mike’s got nothing….. Again.

Comment by Karen
2016-11-26 14:38:31

Neither MightyMouse nor butthole have anything at all, but they are the hbb kings of false analogies, false equivalencies, illogic, and slurs.

Comment by MightyMike
2016-11-26 14:43:41

I never made any claim about Trump, just the GOP.

Comment by jerzdebil
2016-11-26 09:48:16

Oh noez, ocean’s rising again from all those liberal tears!

Cuba was barely a third world country just a few short years ago. All the BS about their education and health care systems is just that, BS. Castro was a raving lunatic who has more than a passing resemblance to an unshaven joe biden. Has anyone ever seen them together?

Comment by phony scandals
2016-11-26 09:19:43

And so it was that later
As Obama told his tale
That her face, at first just ghostly,
Turned a whiter shade of pale


Clinton ultimately heeded Obama’s advice and called Trump to acknowledge her defeat in the early morning hours Wednesday

The Hill - NOVEMBER 26, 2016

President Barack Obama called Hillary Clinton to persuade her to concede the White House on election night, according to a forthcoming book on Clinton’s defeat.

Authors Amie Parnes, The Hill’s senior White House correspondent, and Jonathan Allen cite three Clintonworld sources familiar with the election-night request in the unreleased book from Crown Publishing.

“You need to concede,” Obama told his former secretary of State as she, her family, and her top aides continued to watch results trickle in from the key Rust Belt states of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. The latter state, called after 1:30 a.m. by The Associated Press, was the clear tipping point for the White House race, ensuring Trump would crest over the 270 electoral-vote threshold needed to win.

Clinton ultimately heeded Obama’s advice and called Trump to acknowledge her defeat in the early morning hours Wednesday.

White House officials did not immediately return requests for comment Friday.

Obama’s call left a sour taste in the mouths of some Clinton allies who believe she should have waited longer, and there’s now a fight playing out between the Obama and Clinton camps over whether to support an effort to force the Rust Belt states to recount their votes

Comment by 2banana
2016-11-26 09:35:42


There were many states Hillary barely won.

Why no support for recounts there?

Comment by butters
2016-11-26 10:05:00

You must be racis.

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-11-26 09:53:31

I was struck by a couple of comments the past few days. One was Jeb Bush saying Trump had “tapped into” emotions he didn’t know were there and Paul Ryan said something similar. You guys wanted to be president and you didn’t know about this? How did politicians get so detached from reality? I think it comes down to a lack of honesty in our discourse. When I was growing up people in debates would often state, “I don’t agree with your what you are saying but I’d fight for your right to say it.”

The first time I heard the words political correctness was around 1984. Since that time consent has been demanded. Someone on this blog said before the election, “all you Trump supporters are racists.” OK I thought, that’s your opinion. Note that Saddam Hussein was called Hitler. And Putin. And Ron Paul and Trump. See the pattern? End of discussion. If you disagree your are a Nazi sympathizer.

This is how we got to this place. If you suggest illegal immigration should be halted you are a racist. And since the election we’ve found out there are restrictions on illegal immigration all over the world. If you suggest trade restrictions or modifications you are a knuckle dragging neanderthal. Never mind these restrictions are all over the world. It’s fundamentally against a free society to state some speech can not and will not be tolerated.

Bush didn’t know about the plight of working people because they are considered ignorant and brushed off as simply the inevitable grease on the wheels of globalism. And then there’s the rise of the “elites”. You know what? When I was a kid we were taught we don’t have elites in this country. Maybe in India or Mexico, but not here. That practically defined this country! And here we are told this like it’s the sun coming up in the morning.

Comment by Apartment 401
2016-11-26 09:59:37

It’s gotten to the point where everything and everyone is Hitler.

But once everything is Hitler, and there’s not anything that isn’t Hitler, the Hitler looses its potency as a threat. The media have de-Hitlered Hitler.

Comment by rms
2016-11-26 13:20:05

“The media have de-Hitlered Hitler.”

That’s what the Dream Team did to Nicole Simpson with that slashed throat photo on display every day. By the end of the trial the jury could eat a hoagie while staring at that gaping wound.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 13:29:40

Hitler finds out Americans are calling anyone they disagree with “Hitler.”

Comment by butters
2016-11-26 10:01:28

Infiltration tactics.
If I were Trump, I would stay miles away from these cucks.

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-11-26 10:05:46

‘In a wide ranging and necessary survey of Russian political programming, Dr. Gilbert Doctorow, himself a frequent guest on those shows, observes that: “The charges — that Russian media are only an instrument of state propaganda directed at the domestic population to keep Russian citizens in line and at foreign audiences to sow dissent among Russia’s neighbors and within the European Union — are taken as a matter of faith with almost no proofs adduced. Anyone who questions this ‘group think’ is immediately labeled a ‘tool of Putin’ or worse.”

‘Dr. Doctorow has launched an important conversation in light of the release of yet another alarmist media report, this time by a British neoconservative group named (oddly) after a long deceased Democratic Senator from Washington State (Henry “Scoop” Jackson), which seeks to stifle debate on Russia policy in the West by smearing dissenters from the Russia-bashing conventional wisdom as “Putin’s useful idiots.”

‘Doctorow’s experience with the Russian media therefore serves a double use: to combat willful Western misconceptions of the Russian media landscape as well as to serve as a useful point of comparison with U.S. media outlets and their coverage of Russia.’

‘If we take the example of the purportedly liberal cable news outlet MSNBC, we find, paradoxically, that the hard-right neoconservative stance toward Russia goes virtually unopposed. Regarding Russia, in comparison with their principal center-left cable news rival CNN, which, to its credit occasionally makes room for the minority “detente” point of view, MSNBC leaves about as much room for dissent as the Soviet-era Pravda – actually, perhaps less.’

‘As it happens, there was a similar disparity when it came to the way the two networks covered the U.S. presidential election. While CNN went about bringing much needed balance to its coverage, albeit in the most inept way possible – by hiring paid flacks from each of the campaigns to appear alongside actual journalists, MSNBC (like Republican rival FOX News) wholly dispensed with any pretense of objectivity and served as little more than as a mouth piece for the disastrous Clinton campaign.’

‘Examples abound, but perhaps the most striking case of the neo-McCarthyite hysteria which MSNBC attempted to dress up as its legitimate concern over U.S. national security was a rant that Rachel Maddow unleashed on her audience in June when Maddow opened her show with a monologue dedicated to the proposition that Donald Trump was in league with Vladimir Putin.’

‘Maddow went on in this vein for quite a while longer (meaning: little actual content but lots of “very, very’s” and eye-rolling). But her central insight, such as it was, was little more than a regurgitation of Democratic National Committee talking points. To no one’s surprise, Maddow’s accusations were repeated almost verbatim in the press releases issued by the Clinton campaign which accused Trump of being little more than a Russian fifth columnist.’

‘All of the aforementioned is to demonstrate that the American media’s much touted pluralism is little more than a fiction when it comes to reporting on Russia. The diversity of Left-Right voices on the political spectrum that Doctorow has encountered in Moscow indicates that the widespread perception that Moscow’s political culture is monolithic compared to that of the Washington’s is, at the very least, challengeable.’

Comment by 2banana
2016-11-26 10:20:43

You have to watch MSNBC like the Russians read PRAVDA.

What don’t they say…

How the phrase facts …

Who is no longer talked about…


Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 13:10:00

Sometimes the MSM’s lies reveal just as much as the truth. Especially when it comes to discerning the agendas of their oligarch controllers, who are going to smear anyone who dares to speak truth to power as a Russian agent of influence or “useful idiot” of the Kremlin. But the awake and aware will see right through their lies and slanders.

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Comment by palmetto
2016-11-26 10:11:03

“See the pattern? End of discussion. If you disagree your are a Nazi sympathizer.”

And yet, those exact tactics are what Nazis are said to have used to marginalize and denigrate the Jews and justify their extermination. Cognitive dissonance.

Comment by Old And Dirty
2016-11-26 10:21:32

“Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.” Orwell

Nevermind those 20 million Christians barbequed by Soviet Communists inside their borders.

Comment by 2banana
2016-11-26 10:24:28

Scratch a democrat and you get a fascist.

And I use that term correctly.

Everything for the state. Nothing outside the state.

Comment by butters
2016-11-26 13:21:29

Scratch a cuckservative and you get a useful idiot.

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Comment by oxide
2016-11-26 13:47:07

Speaking of the state, has anyone seen Bill in LA?

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Comment by butters
2016-11-26 14:14:56

He offed himself. Couldn’t take hillry loss.

Comment by Karen
2016-11-26 12:25:08

Godwin’s Law (or Godwin’s rule of Hitler analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1″’s_law

Comment by oxide
2016-11-26 13:42:40

If you suggest illegal immigration should be halted you are a racist.

And don’t forget that if you are a woman who didn’t vote for Clinton, you’re a sexist too. When in actuality, the biggest sexists out there were Lena Dunham and Chelsea Handler and Katie Perry and etc., because they judged a candidate not on the content of character but of the composition of the reproductive system.

(Funny how it was okay to vote against Sarah Palin but not Clinton)

Comment by aqius
2016-11-27 10:09:46

interesting thread.

had to stop listening to AM radio’s Michael Savage out of San Francisco when it got so tiresome hearing him compare someone to Hitler EVERY. SINGLE. BROADCAST!

you could time it to the second as he got worked up his daily
2 minutes of rage & then Bam: ” ITS LIKE HITLER” !!!!

I do agree w/language, borders & culture message but the Howard Beale schtick, not so much.

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-11-26 10:22:08

Why are people going on about this popular vote? For one there’s the significant matter of the video showing Clinton’s operatives planning to bus illegals around to vote. Then there’s this: what if I insisted my football team won because they gained more yards or my baseball team won because they got more hits? The electoral college is such that Trump had to pretty much run the table in contested states, and run the table he did. The electoral college functioned exactly as it was designed.

Comment by 2banana
2016-11-26 10:27:29

Because the left wants to deligitimize Trump.

They want America to think he did not earn the office.

They know what is coming.

Trump has a phone and a pen too.

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-11-26 10:30:33

Left and right has never been more meaningless than when the Democratic party sounds like the John Birch Society.

Comment by 2banana
2016-11-26 10:50:20

I remember leftist on this board complaining of the Bush deficits of $200M.

“How many teachers could be hired for that money…”

Not a peep on obama’s $1T deficits

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2016-11-26 13:16:31

Nor a peep about him droning people, including US Citizens…

Comment by butters
2016-11-26 13:22:59

I have the hunch that droning will be uncool soon….

Comment by phony scandals
2016-11-26 11:00:41

“what if I insisted my football team won because they gained more yards or my baseball team won because they got more hits?”

1960 World Series

From Wikipedia

The 1960 World Series was played between the Pittsburgh Pirates of the National League (NL) and the New York Yankees of the American League (AL) from October 5 to 13, 1960.

Another unusual aspect of this World Series is that the losing team scored more than twice as many runs as the winning team, as the Yankees won three blowout games (16–3, 10–0, and 12–0), while the Pirates won four close games (6–4, 3–2, 5–2, and 10–9).

Comment by palmetto
2016-11-26 10:43:04

For those concerned about the Clinton/Stein recount effort, I’m guessing Trump saw it coming ages ago. Note that his campaign attorney and soon to be White House counsel has some decent experience in that area.

“McGahn, a partner at Jones Day in Washington, D.C., has specialized in political law and government ethics. He served as a member of the FEC for five years and has been cited as “one of the most influential commissioners in the history of the FEC.”

The country is in good hands. The Clintons can take their purple ties and lapels and shove it up their posteriors.

Comment by the spider monkey
2016-11-26 11:57:41

Remember what Governor McAuliffe did in Virginia prior to this election. They were worried about losing so the governor initially tried to do a blanket pardoning + restoration of voting rights for about 200K convicted felons. (I didn’t even know that was possible to get your voting rights restored if you were a convicted felon.)

Initially the state courts told him: No, you can’t do that — you have to treat each person’s pardon individually.

That would take weeks.. signing pardons all day. So what did he do? He used a mechanical machine “auto-pen” to sign them all, over 60,000. And then, he sent them all voter registration cards and prepaid postage with instructions to vote Democrat.

Crazy. I guess that is legal but IMO that’s pretty blatant “rigging”. There ya go Democrats, the party of pardoned criminals. They will do anything and everything to cheat.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 13:11:03

Our permanent Democrat supermajority is not going to build itself, you know.

Comment by palmetto
2016-11-26 13:23:38

Make no mistake, Obama full well realizes that he himself is a whole lot safer with Trump as President, as opposed to Hillary. At least I think he does and if he doesn’t, some of his close circle like Jarrett and Axelrod do and have likely presented him with the realities of the situation. There is no love lost between the Clintons and Obama.

The way HRC sees it, Obama screwed her out of the presidency the first time and she’s never forgotten that, even though she was given the SOS position as a consolation prize to enrich herself and her family. If given the chance, she will get even. She’s known for it.

Obama has to realize that with Trump as president, he gets to walk away clean with some of his dignity and maybe a few crumbs of his “legacy” intact while the focus shifts to the crimes of Hillary and the Clinton Foundation. He gets plausible deniability and a sort of teflon sacred cow status.

Comment by tj
2016-11-26 14:50:09

maybe he thinks that elphaba won’t be prosecuted. if he’s right, he’s safe. if he’s wrong, she’ll take him down with him. i think he’s got little choice but to pardon her in order to save his own skin.

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Comment by tj
2016-11-26 14:54:05

take him down with ‘her’..

Comment by the spider monkey
2016-11-26 15:45:14

As his departing gift, I think Obama should pardon every single registered Democrat in the entire country, regardless if they have any criminal history. Why not? Free Pardons for everyone! Virginia already set the precedent by pardoning 60,000 felons for votes.

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Comment by the spider monkey
2016-11-26 12:24:20

If you’re curious, this is what those auto-pen machines look like. I’m guessing Terry’s had a paper-feeder attached to it with all those 60,000 individual pardon papers. Probably got it all done in an hour.

Comment by taxpayers
2016-11-26 11:34:46

Fair to say?
In a static market;
Mort rates up 9% (just happened) = -1% of equity
Taxes up 5% = -1/2% of equity

Comment by Professor Bear
2016-11-27 07:34:30

-1% of a $500,000 California starter home = $5000 loss. That’s gotta hurt, since it is a third of the down payment and they already borrowed and spent their housing market wealth gains. Picking up nickels in front of steamrollers occasionally results in the picker getting steamrolled.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2016-11-26 11:45:49

What’s the most direct way to short farmland? I expect the farm bust to be epic; it got a double-boost from both the massive declines in interest rates and the massive uptick in commodity process (thanks, QE!), and both of those engines are running in reverse, and will for a few more years IMO.

Comment by Old And Dirty
2016-11-26 11:49:52

And cratering ag commodity prices.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2016-11-26 13:27:45

Wouldn’t you be a couple of years late to that party?

Comment by Old And Dirty
2016-11-26 13:35:11

It’s all about falling prices my friend.

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Comment by azdude
2016-11-26 14:44:11

I’m sorry u keeping missing the bull markets.

Comment by Old And Dirty
2016-11-26 15:03:31

The power of falling prices enrages you.

Comment by the spider monkey
2016-11-26 13:21:19

Looks like there are farmland REIT companies that are publicly traded. You could short those. This may not be a complete list but here’s an article about them from a year ago.

Interesting that the companies they mention were fairly recent IPOs.

“The three REITs, from the oldest to the most recent, are Gladstone Land Corp. (LAND), which IPOd in 2013, Farmland Partners Inc. (FPI), which IPOd in 2014, and American Farmland Co. (AFCO), which IPOd this year.”

Comment by the spider monkey
2016-11-26 13:42:57

Funny, from that farmland REIT article:

“It’s the perfect investment for institutions with long-range investment goals, such as pension funds.”

Yes, the perfect investment for pension funds. Shorting those farmland REITs isn’t such a bad idea. I’m not sure I’d short the stock itself, but maybe buy a few put options instead. AFCO’s Jan 2017 options open-interest appear to be heavily lopsided on the calls, barely anyone has an open-interest in the puts.

Comment by the spider monkey
2016-11-26 14:04:42

Ack nevermind about those AFCO options, sorry my dates were mixed up in my head. (”What year is it anyway?”). There’s no longer-dated ones beyond April it seems. If they had a Jan 2018 Put available, I’d consider buying a few of those, with some throwaway money.

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Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2016-11-26 12:09:02

Sugar Land, TX Housing Prices Crater 8% YoY

Comment by Karen
2016-11-26 12:48:25

“Rex Schrader, president of Schrader Real Estate and Auction Company in Columbia City, Indiana didn’t disagree, although he said some land sales this fall have brought more than expected. He agreed that land prices have been declining for the past two years, falling 10% to 15% in Indiana. While economists are comparing the current financial situation in agriculture to some aspects of the 1980s or 1970s, Schrader sees an important difference. During the 1970s, land prices were rising while farm income was falling, he said. Unlike the inflation-driven land bubble of that earlier era, the run-up in prices earlier in the current decade was tied to strong farm income.”


“In the post-World War II era, farmers witnessed revolutionary advances in agricultural technology — new machinery, seeds, pesticides, fertilizers, resulting in greater efficiency, greater productivity. During the 1950s and 60s, American agriculture’s biggest problem was what to do with the huge surpluses of grain. All that changed in the 1970s as the massive stockpiles were drawn down, sometimes to precariously low levels. As a result, commodity prices rose. Then in the early 1970s, poor weather conditions results in diminished yields overseas. Demand for U.S. agricultural products exploded. The Soviet Union negotiated a multiyear contract for wheat and feed grains in 1972. And within a span of two years, wheat priced doubled, corn prices tripled. Suddenly, America’s unprecedented ability to produce food looked more like a blessing than a burden. And there was serious talk that the U.S. would not be able to keep up.”

“In 1973, President Nixon’s Secretary of Agriculture, Earl Butz responded by calling upon American farmers to plant “fencerow to fencerow,” and he told them “to get big or get out.” Producers took his words to heart and the race to feed the world was on. With production in high gear and prices continuing to climb, 1973 and ‘74 were prosperous years in rural America. And for the first time since record-keeping began, per capita farm income actually exceeded that of urban Americans. Life was good.”

“November 15, 1976 — “Finished combining corn tonight. The new bin is full. We really feel for the first time there is enough money for everything. The bills are getting paid. The farm is half paid for. — Farm wife, southern Iowa.”

Comment by butters
2016-11-26 13:05:57

Why is Trump challenging our democracy by not accepting election results? Why is he pushing for recounts in 3 states without any proof of voter fraud? Trump and his supporters are losers and always have been…..

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2016-11-26 13:42:00

LOLZ. Oh yeah, that narrative—so funny how there is no mention of this when it is on the other foot.

Comment by butters
2016-11-26 14:12:42

Trump to appoint Bill Cosby and Bill Clinton as co-secretary of women’s rights.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 13:38:34

Who are the biggest peddlers of fake news?’s-biggest-peddler-fake-news

Comment by butters
Comment by Karen
2016-11-26 14:42:48

Fact-Checking Snopes: Website’s Political ‘Fact-Checker’ Is Just A Failed Liberal Blogger

Read more:

Comment by taxpayers
2016-11-26 14:33:10

5% ,8%
How else do u trim an org like fed gov?

Comment by phony scandals
2016-11-26 15:35:52

Reading this will make Mighty and scdave feel like Marilyn Monroe standing on a subway grate in New York City.

Clinton team to take part in U.S. state vote recount, Trump blasts effort

POLITICS | Sat Nov 26, 2016 | 5:25pm EST

By Ian Simpson and Roberta Rampton | WASHINGTON/WEST PALM BEACH, FLA.
Democrat Hillary Clinton’s campaign will take part in a recount of Wisconsin votes in the U.S. presidential race, an effort Republican winner Donald Trump called “ridiculous” on Saturday.

Wisconsin’s election board on Friday approved the recount requested by Green Party candidate Jill Stein. She has said she wants to guarantee the integrity of the U.S. voting system since computer hacking had marked the Nov. 8 election.

Marc Elias, the Clinton campaign counsel, said the campaign would take part in the recount in Wisconsin as well as in the other battleground states of Pennsylvania and Michigan if recounts were mounted there.

Comment by phony scandals
2016-11-26 15:56:56

Jill Stein raises $4.8 million in just over 24 hours for a recount after raising $3 million for her entire campaign yet Marc Elias says the Clinton campaign had not planned to seek a recount?

My @ss the Clinton campaign had not planned to seek a recount.

“Elias said in a statement on the Medium website that the Clinton campaign had not planned to seek a recount since its own investigation had failed to turn up any sign of hacking of voting systems.”

“But now that a recount has been initiated in Wisconsin, we intend to participate in order to ensure the process proceeds in a manner that is fair to all sides,” Elias said.”

“Clinton’s campaign should be legally represented in Wisconsin to be able to monitor the recount, he said.”

Comment by 2banana
2016-11-26 17:25:41

Will they look at all the illegal and dead votes?

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-11-26 18:00:41

Those are Democrats in good standing.

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