December 16, 2016

Investors Are Spitting It Out Now

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “The price cuts at Extell’s One57 just keep coming. Last week, $2 million was lopped off the asking price of apartment 65A. It’s now on the market for $25.9 million, $3.3 million less than what the seller paid in 2014. It’s far cry from 2014, when a penthouse in the building sold for $100 million, a New York City condominium record. 53 West 71st Street was listed back in March for $14.9 million, and sat on the market for nine months. Last week, the asking price was dropped by $1.4 million, or 10 percent. ‘We didn’t have buyers at that price. It’s just pretty simple,’ said listing broker Dexter Guerrieri of the reduction.”

“There isn’t much construction work left in Freer, Texas, a little town in South Texas whose fortunes turned south with the oil bust. But still, contractor John Hogan is stuck there — he’s got a house that nobody’s willing to buy. ‘Everything I had is paid for, so it’s hard to run off somewhere,’ Hogan told me. ‘And you can’t sell it, there’s no market.’ There’s lots of work in San Antonio, where he’s from, but it’s not easy to pick up his wife and three kids and go back. ‘I don’t have nowhere to live,’ Hogan says. ‘It’s $2,000 or $3,000 just to start out. Every time you get close to having money, something breaks down.’”

“According to local real estate broker Kim Stewart, homes in Freer now sit on the market for years before selling, if they ever do. ‘I went through the mortgage meltdown, and that bounced back so much faster than this last downward slide,’ she says. ‘This is the worst that I’ve ever seen it.’”

“The Raffaello Hotel’s rocky detour into condominium ownership is about to end, and it won’t be a happy ending for many investors in the Streeterville property. A decade after converting the 175-room boutique hotel into condos, Miami developer Crescent Heights is buying back the building for $34.5 million, according to a person familiar with the transaction. Condo-hotels—in which developers sell off individual rooms to investors, who can both use the rooms and rent them out—were a brief fad during the last boom in downtown Chicago. But most projects fizzled here amid a cooling market and growing skepticism of the investment concept.”

“At the Raffaello, many owners have sold their hotel units for huge losses in recent years, and some have lost their condos to foreclosure. Many, if not most, of the investors are selling their units back to Crescent Heights for well below what the developer sold the condos for back in 2006 and 2007. A lot of owners in the building are facing big losses in the pending sale back to Crescent Heights. That includes Richard Lowney, who bought his condo from the developer for $425,000 in 2006. His buyout price: $344,000, 19 percent less. ‘We’re getting screwed,’ said Lowney. ‘There’s no doubt about it.’”

“Angus home sellers who risk being hit by a double council tax whammy are being offered a lifeline. Arbroath councillor David Fairweather said it would stop people being ‘crucified’ during a difficult time for the housing market. There are around 1,000 long-term empty properties in Angus with many proving tough to shift in the current economic climate. Mr Fairweather said: ‘I know of a resident who was trying to sell a flat for £75,000 and was having real difficulties in selling the property. Virtually out of desperation he put it up for auction and at the third time of asking got £29,000.’”

“An ultra-luxury apartment with a sea view at Sentosa Cove has made the largest loss in the property market so far this year. Originally bought for $11 million in 2011, the condominium unit at Seascape was sold for $6.35 million in October at a loss of $4.65 million. A high-end property in Cairnhill Road made the second-largest loss-making deal of $3.7 million in March. Another Sentosa Cove unit at Turquoise came in third, in a transaction that made a loss of more than $3.3 million in June.”

“Statistics from property portal SRX show that sales of condo units with losses of more than $1 million each rose substantially this year, with 48 such transactions, compared with 31 in 2015. Most of these luxury homes were bought during the property boom years of 2007, 2011 and 2013. Up to November this year, more than 800 transactions involving non-landed private properties were loss-making, double the figure in 2015. CBRE’s head of research Desmond Sim said: ‘The slew of government policies are put in place to ensure investors don’t bite off more than they can chew, or they will choke. Those who made such huge losses are not in need of a Heimlich manoeuvre, but they are spitting it out now.’”

“Westpac acting chief economist Michael Gordon said there are at least three compelling arguments for a softer housing market over 2017. ‘One is that the latest round of LVR restrictions has finally broken the back of the market. Another is that mortgage rates are now rising instead of falling. Lastly, some have argued that the housing market is simply a bubble ready to burst.’”

“Gordon said that in recent years mortgage rates have been steadily declining and this has underpinned the price that investors are willing to pay for properties. But the situation is changing, with global interest rates turning higher in the last few months and New Zealand being taken along for the ride, he said. ‘In our view, higher mortgage rates will have a more meaningful – and sustained – impact on house prices than lending restrictions alone ever could.’”

“Property developers are discretely offering discounts on apartments in Brisbane, Melbourne and Perth to Chinese buyers for the first time, in a sign lending restrictions and over-supply are beginning to affect prices. The price discounts of up to 7 per cent were offered to clients of China’s biggest online real estate agency, Fang.com, late on Friday night in an effort to clear stock before year’s end. ‘This is the first time we have offered cash discounts,” said Fang.com agent Edward Shang.”

“A director at ACProperty.com.au, Esther Yong, said one developer was offering Chinese buyers a 25-year rental guarantee in Melbourne in an effort to move unsold apartments. ‘The market has slowed down a lot over the past six months and recently the only deals that are moving are those with big incentives,’ said Ms Yong.”

“Chinese bond yields soared and authorities halted trading in some futures contracts for the first time on Thursday, as a global bond-market selloff worsened a day after the Federal Reserve signaled a quicker pace of interest-rate increases next year. Between Election Day and this past Wednesday, the global bond selloff has wiped out $1.45 trillion in market value from the Bloomberg Barclays Global Treasury index, which tracks government bonds in both developed and developing countries.”

“Chinese investors were able to benefit by borrowing cheap money and pouring it into assets from bonds to housing to commodities, producing what some economists have described as a series of unsustainable bubbles. Some of these bubbles have burst over the past 18 months, with the crash in China’s stock market in the summer of 2015 the most notable example. Now the pain has spread to the $9 trillion bond market, which remains overwhelmingly driven by domestic investors.”

“‘People woke up to the fact that the bond bubble is too large,’ said Hao Hong, co-head of research at BoCom International, which is owned by Hong Kong’s Bank of Communications. ‘The bond market in China is under severe pressure, across the board.’”




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300 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-12-16 05:00:31

The Singapore link is a riot:

‘R’ST Research director Ong Kah Seng said: “It is easy to advise people to avoid buying when there is a property bubble but in reality, people tend to avoid buying property only when there is a slump because they lack confidence.”

‘Mr Ong said: “In the past, these properties were a status symbol. The more expensive it was, the higher its value. (Their losses) can be justified by the enjoyment and prestige of occupying these properties for the past couple of years. Besides, they would have paid a certain price if they had rented them.”

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-12-16 07:42:22

‘The top-10 loss-making properties are in two affluent neighbourhoods, Sentosa Cove and the Central area. All of them were bought during the property boom years in 2007, 2011 and 2013. Seven were bought in 2007.’

‘Last year, a Japanese tycoon made an eye-popping S$15.8 million loss on a penthouse unit at St Regis Residences. R’ST Research director Ong Kah Seng said: “Interest in the high-end segment was at the peak then because of the exciting plans that were announced at that time - such as the integrated resorts, plans to transform the Central Business District - which attracted many foreigners to have a stake in the hype.”

 
Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 08:01:31

“It is easy to advise people to avoid buying when there is a property bubble but in reality, people tend to avoid buying property only when there is a slump because they lack confidence.”

Very good point about confidence. That’s really what fiat money is, anyway, just confidence that the paper is good. People don’t spend when they don’t have confidence. Very simple.

Comment by cactus
2016-12-16 09:43:42

That’s really what fiat money is, anyway, just confidence that the paper is good. ”

Confidence backed by taxes and a population that can be taxed enough to pay off the debt created when paper money is “made” through loans.

you think we can be taxed enough to pay off the debt ? I sent out 2 bids on a design , American guy who moved to Baja to cut costs and a Chinese guy named “tim”

American 3500 Tim 300 dollars I had to fix Tim’s mistakes but instead of training a American worker I’m training Tim… Tim will learn and I doubt he or she pays taxes on the US debt.

the future stick a fork in it

Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 10:31:20

LOL, with all due respect, Tim has already learned, and learned well, that if his price is low enough, you and others like you will put up with the indignity and extra work to fix his mistakes. Again and again. Just like I’m putting up with a cheap piece of junk power supply right now. Tim is training you.

But you’re right, he probably doesn’t pay taxes on the US debt.

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Comment by somedewd
2016-12-16 10:50:46

+1

What hurts is suffering the indignity of fixing mistakes and pointing out terrible quality of residential home construction by poorly trained day laborers, while the GC quotes obscene prices reminiscent of artisan masons. Such a crock. I can’t wait for the stinkhole that is the “Luxury” housing market to crash and burn.

 
Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 11:54:00

I’m glad you posted this, it’s another aspect of the “race to the bottom”. Construction quality.

 
Comment by PitchforkPurveyor
2016-12-16 12:21:20

There’s a lack of quality in most everything produced. We’ve gotten to the point where you can go buy something at the store, be it a vacuum or an inverter, a hammer or 3 ring binder, and it will fail to last even a week due to inherent design flaws and construction. The prices don’t reflect this, of course.

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 16:33:46

The emphasis is on short-term profits at the expense of long-term business models and consumer trust.

 
 
 
 
Comment by PitchforkPurveyor
2016-12-16 10:18:02

Did you watch this link which was posted on your blog yesterday? Wow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCTzFNrsKns

Comment by rms
2016-12-16 18:31:26

The U.S. really should not participate in insurgent warfare.

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2016-12-16 05:10:17

‘According to local real estate broker Kim Stewart, homes in Freer now sit on the market for years before selling, if they ever do. ‘I went through the mortgage meltdown, and that bounced back so much faster than this last downward slide,’ she says. ‘This is the worst that I’ve ever seen it.’

Hmmm, no subprime loans here. Or here:

‘Lowney, who bought his condo from the developer for $425,000 in 2006. His buyout price: $344,000, 19 percent less. ‘We’re getting screwed,’ said Lowney.’

‘The price cuts at Extell’s One57 just keep coming. Last week, $2 million was lopped off the asking price of apartment 65A. It’s now on the market for $25.9 million, $3.3 million less than what the seller paid in 2014.’

Again, no subprime loans! What’s going on?

Comment by PitchforkPurveyor
2016-12-16 12:22:38

Any stories out of the Bakken lately?

 
Comment by Karen
2016-12-16 14:50:28

I like the title of this article: “When your house is a trap”

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2016-12-16 05:18:23

‘Esther Yong, said one developer was offering Chinese buyers a 25-year rental guarantee in Melbourne in an effort to move unsold apartments. ‘The market has slowed down a lot over the past six months and recently the only deals that are moving are those with big incentives,’ said Ms Yong.’

25 years? Do you really think these developers are going to be around in 25 years? They obviously are making a big empty promise to unload these air boxes.

Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 08:03:43

“Lifetime warranty” Lol, anybody can say that.

Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 08:42:45

They also know that they will not see the return of a mania like this in their lifetimes. Or in their children’s.

 
 
 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 05:19:23

A lot of owners in the building are facing big losses in the pending sale back to Crescent Heights. That includes Richard Lowney, who bought his condo from the developer for $425,000 in 2006. His buyout price: $344,000, 19 percent less. ‘We’re getting screwed,’ said Lowney. ‘There’s no doubt about it.’”

No, Richard. You foolishly bought into a housing bubble, driving up prices so the prudent were priced out of the market. Now we are feeling pure schadenfreude as you and the other FBs get your comeupance. And we’ll still wait to buy until prices go a lot, lot lower, which they’re going to.

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-12-16 09:12:52

The article mentions foreclosures. Now just who was making loans on condo-tels?

Comment by PitchforkPurveyor
2016-12-16 12:13:27

And who is going to be stuck with the losses?

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 16:34:51

Middle class taxpayers who bail out the banksters. Same as it ever was.

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Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 05:21:29

‘I know of a resident who was trying to sell a flat for £75,000 and was having real difficulties in selling the property. Virtually out of desperation he put it up for auction and at the third time of asking got £29,000.’”

And now we’ve established a little something called true price discovery. Be afraid, FBs. Be very afraid.

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 05:23:19

Lastly, some have argued that the housing market is simply a bubble ready to burst.’”

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2016-12-16 11:19:50

ready?

No, that roller coaster has crested the top of the hill. Make sure you’re strapped in and I hope you didn’t have too big a lunch.

 
 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 05:28:22

Pity the poor debt donkeys. Financial irresponsibility and living beyond your means has consequences, regardless of what the Keynesian fraudsters at the Fed would have you believe.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-15/are-debt-laden-american-consumers-about-get-crushed-higher-interest-rates

Comment by rms
2016-12-16 18:42:03

The Carpenters “We’ve Only Just Begun”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JgEptmz_eE

 
 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 05:32:49

Oh dear. The precious snowflakes are exercising the nuclear option on their FB “friends” who don’t spew the requisite level of Trump-hatred. Next we’ll have a stamp-your-little-feet-o-meter to monitor the mandatory Two Minutes of Hate.

http://nypost.com/2016/12/15/now-you-can-get-unfriended-for-not-hating-trump-enough/

Comment by Truth
2016-12-16 09:32:45

Much like what happens here if the requisite Trump love isn’t proffered.

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-12-16 09:49:28

‘what happens here’

No no, we love our sad pandas. But if you’re going to talk smack about my blog, on my blog, I’m gonna show you the door. And if you want to find out what that looks like, keep smackin’.

Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 10:34:27

Never ceases to amaze me when posters do this. If they don’t like it, they can leave. No one’s making them post here.

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Comment by PitchforkPurveyor
2016-12-16 12:17:19

I have never understood whining about people who don’t share the same opinions/beliefs. It really smacks of narcissism and immaturity. Personally, I like to hear all sides. Of course, I’m also one of those non-partisans who will vote either party, or none.

 
Comment by aqius
2016-12-16 14:02:48

I also like to hear all sides, then make my own choice.

This blog has served as a very insightful source of housing news & information that usually costs money in subscription fees elsewhere.
It’s actually in my daily top 10.

(Ben just fell off his tailgate!)

Many times I have, and continue, to bark about things, but try to not get into a pointless, endless “bicker-battle”.

 
Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 14:09:48

“I have never understood whining about people who don’t share the same opinions/beliefs.”

That’s not the part that I object to. What bothers me is that Ben is the proprietor of this blog, at his own time and expense. He is mostly very lenient with posters and has very few rules. These rules are not posted, but easy enough to figure out after a while. As near as I can tell, they are:

1) Don’t slag the blogger (or the blog). That’s just common courtesy and respect. You’re at the party, you’re partaking of the food and drink. The least you can do is honor the host and avoid puking on the carpet.

2) Don’t post anything that could put the blog at risk. (That’s one banning I’ll never forget. For a while there I thought it was permanent and wouldn’t have blamed him if it was.)

3) Don’t engage in potty keyboard, or at least keep it down to a dull roar. (I wound up in the corner for this one, too. Most times Ben just doesn’t let the comment go through, but do it often enough and it’s time out, baby.).

The same people who do this stuff probably meekly “follow” the rules” on FB, Reddit, citydata and other such venues, where you can get banned at the drop of a hat for far less.

And don’t ask Ben to ban someone. Again, it’s his blog, we’re guests and he gets to decide who he wants at the party.

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 16:38:22

I’ve never asked Ben to ban anyone. I have, however, repeatedly asked him to add a feature that allows me to moon the posters of my choice. Sometimes words just don’t suffice.

 
 
Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 18:47:58

The Crater Administrator has spoken.

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Comment by Potemkin President
2016-12-17 00:03:43

If you don’t show Donald Trump the love, it proves that you are a libtard snowflake. Get with the program, losers.

 
 
Comment by Apartment 401
2016-12-16 09:37:47

Just one more, just one more Huffington Post link from a FB friend and I’ll be convinced of my irredeemable deplorability :(

 
Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2016-12-16 10:30:29

First, the riots..
Then, the recounts..
Then, the russians..
Then, the electors..
Now they are trying to figure out a way to impeach the guy..

These people are the worst sore losers I’ve ever seen in my entire life.

Comment by Rental Watch
2016-12-16 11:57:50

So much for accepting the outcome of the election.

I keep picturing the end of Trading Places, where one of the Duke Brothers, after losing everything yells: Turn those machines back on!!!

https://youtu.be/m01U3t2cLEs

 
Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 12:11:20

You must have slept through the last 8 years. Talk about sore losers!

(Said by someone who actually voted against Obama, but was utterly disgusted by Republicans’ flat refusal to work with him.)

Comment by Jesus Navas is my Lord Savior
2016-12-16 12:44:40

Working together?
Isn’t that practically synonymous in saying let’s do more bad things?
Nothing good has come out from bi-partisanship. The solutions are either on the left or the right. There’s nothing to be gained by being in the middle of the road.

The middle of the road is for yellow lines and dead armadillos.
–Jim Hightower

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Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 13:28:32

Nothing good has come out from bi-partisanship.

That’s got to be a huge exaggeration.

 
Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 13:31:51

Extremist positions (either far right or far left) do not lead to prosperity.

 
Comment by tj
2016-12-16 13:39:02

freedom, which is ‘far right’ leads to prosperity.

 
Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 14:00:09

Freedom is not “far right”. Fascism is “far right”, and brings the loss of freedom.

 
Comment by tj
2016-12-16 14:03:41

fascism is far left. this has been discussed on this board a few times and only a few on the far left still think fascism is ‘far right’.

 
Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 14:18:03

You’re mistaken.

Far-right fascism and far-left communism meet at the same stop - totalitarianism.

Both reject liberalism.

 
Comment by tj
2016-12-16 14:20:32

yes, but there is more state control in communism.

please define fascism in your own words.

don’t give the dictionary definition. i want to know what it means to you.

 
Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 14:37:27

“please define fascism in your own words.

don’t give the dictionary definition. i want to know what it means to you.”

tj, I have to give NYchk some props here. People tend to think in linear fashion, when in fact circular is more like it. If you think in terms of a circle, with concepts like right and left diverging away from a midpoint at the bottom of the circle, reaching extreme opposite points from each other and then continuing on, getting closer and closer until they meet again (at the same stop), this is what I think Nychk is trying to express.

It actually does work that way.

 
Comment by tj
2016-12-16 14:48:47

i don’t think of it in terms of a circle. that’s the point i was getting at with her.

if we have a scale from 0 to 10, with communism at 0 and freedom or free market capitalism at 10, the numbers would roughly look like this.

0. communism
1. socialism
2. fascism
.
.
10. freedom

 
Comment by Karen
2016-12-16 14:54:05

They only work together when they want to screw us

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 16:47:52

Both wings of the Republicrat duopoly are owned by and beholden to the oligarchy. Neither one has the best interests of America or Americans in mind.

 
 
Comment by Rental Watch
2016-12-16 14:08:17

NYchk-

As I’ve stated often, you need to read “The Price of Politics” by Woodward.

It paints a picture of an Obama Administration that completely steamrolled the GOP, and in my opinion, thereby destroyed any hope of a bipartisan relationship.

Your disgust of the GOP will abate after reading the book…especially when you overlay the stories of obstruction were written by a biased media (which bias was made all the more apparent during this election cycle).

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Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 14:19:10

Thank you, sounds interesting.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2016-12-16 14:31:25

Just remember the phrase “We have the votes. F— ‘em.”.

That was Rahm’s strategy toward “working with” the GOP during the administration’s first 2 years, which is why Obama passed three major pieces of legislation with almost NO GOP support.

You know about the ACA and Dodd Frank, but no one (except Woodword) spoke much about the massive stimulus bill into which it would have been really easy to incorporate GOP ideas.

But they didn’t, and started the steamrolling process on February 17, 2009 when the stimulus bill was passed…less than one month after inauguration.

Obama sh*t on a bipartisan approach pretty much from day one. He and his administration, not the GOP, set the tone.

 
 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 16:41:11

Are you kidding, NYchk? John Boehner, aka Johnny Lawnchair, and his RINO cohorts folded almost every time after putting up token resistance, giving us such abominations as Obamacare.

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Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 18:16:00

heh-heh, let’s not forget John Roberts, either.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 05:34:21

Nice try, MSM. But the Oligopoly’s stranglehold on news and information has been broken. Deal with it.

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/12/15/facebook-introduce-warning-labels-stories-deemed-fake-news/

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 05:38:47

With Yellen the Felon and the Keynesian fraudsters at the Fed intent on printing away all government and corporate debts and liabilities, who in their right mind is going to buy and hold US Treasuries?

http://wolfstreet.com/2016/12/15/foreigners-dump-u-s-treasurys-as-never-before/

Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 12:14:01

Stop with Yellen the Felon crap.

It’s disgusting, to participate in the spread of harebrained memes, designed with a specific purpose to stoke hatred and turn off the brain.

Comment by PitchforkPurveyor
2016-12-16 12:28:31

I personally believe the moniker is appropriate. I consider her, as well as Bernanke, economic terrorists working against the interest of Americans as a whole.

Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 12:38:18

Hatred filled memes are a much bigger threat to democracy.

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Comment by Jesus Navas is my Lord Savior
2016-12-16 13:29:43

Anyone who listens to Yellon the Fellon is the biggest threat to mankind!

 
Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 13:47:22

You’re either stupid or paid off.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2016-12-16 14:13:04

Really? Internet memes are more important than Fed policy to the future of the country?

 
Comment by oxide
2016-12-16 16:04:48

It is when somebody says a meanie word.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2016-12-17 06:31:58

Or when they keep repeating themselves ad nauseam. But that’s par for the course with angry old men.

 
 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 12:37:50

It’s just his way of expressing that he thinks the Fed is an illegitimate institution whose primary function is theft of the nation’s wealth.

You are of course correct though, that Janet doesn’t have any convictions.

Comment by In Colorado
2016-12-16 19:28:12

One doesn’t have to be convicted to be a felon.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2016-12-17 13:56:22

You are of course correct though, that Janet doesn’t have any convictions.

LOL—great play on words, Blue!

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Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 16:52:47

Yellen has bilked savers and the prudent out of countless billions in interest income, while setting in motion a debasement of the currency that is going to rob the 99% blind through the stealth tax of inflation. She and the Fed have gifted Wall Street and the banksters trillions in QE funny money to engage in speculative greed and corporate buybacks that benefit only a corrupt and venal .1% in the financial sector.

We will not have honest markets or sound money as long as Yellen the Felon and the Keynesian fraudsters at the Fed can defraud the 99% with impunity.

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 17:13:12

Stop the oligarchy’s financial warfare against the 99%. End the Fed!

http://endthefed.org

 
 
 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 05:39:51
Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 12:16:08

Lets send Kerry to negotiate with his trustworthy pal Lavrov.

We can also send a boyscout to a gun fight, just don’t forget to tie his hands first.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 17:15:30

John Kerry walks into a bar. Bartender says, “Why the long face?”

I slay me….

Comment by rms
2016-12-16 19:13:10

LMFAO!

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Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 05:43:52

Precious metals look like screaming good buys at these levels, especially when 1.4 billion Chinese belatedly figure out their entire financial system is a Keynesian scam and start parking their money in gold as they always have in times of crisis and uncertainty.

http://www.kitco.com/market/

Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 12:17:59

I’ve heard that Indian government started to confiscate undeclared gold from its citizens.

Any truth to this?

 
Comment by cactus
2016-12-16 13:48:51

Precious metals I can easily see authorities outlawing this just like before.

or trying too.

 
 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 05:46:41

Kick the can all you want, Italy. The financial reckoning day can be deferred, but it’s still inevitable.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eurozone-banks-italy-idUSKBN1441EM

Comment by In Colorado
2016-12-16 19:29:56

If you can kick it long enough, it eventually becomes someone else’s problem. And given the brevity of most Italian governments, you don’t even have to kick it that far.

 
 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 05:50:50

Note that the DNC has never challenged the veracity of the leaked e-mails that exposed the magnitude of their sleaze and corruption.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-16/trump-doubles-down-are-we-talking-about-same-cyberattack-revealed-illegal-dnc-coordi

Comment by jerzdebil
2016-12-16 08:17:26

Best comment seen so far:

Hey Pedosta, whats in your closet?

Him, his brother and the rest of the ring need to get tossed in a wood chipper feet first for #pizzagate

Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 08:30:03

Podesta Op-Ed:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-16/infuriated-podesta-slams-broken-fbi-demands-serious-sustained-response-against-russi

“The more we learn about the Russian plot to sabotage Hillary Clinton’s campaign and elect Donald Trump, and the failure of the FBI to adequately respond, the more shocking it gets,”

Every time the man with the golden winky opens his (pizza) pie-hole, he gets a (pizza) pie in the face.

 
 
Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 12:20:17

You need to be tossed into sewage, head first, for spreading fake news.

Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 14:42:22

I merely posted his own op-ed. Followed by a reference to his own palm symbols.

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Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 14:48:18

palm symbols?

 
Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 15:30:34

This one:

https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/p9220307-1-john-podestas-palms1.jpg

Probably not as sinister as it’s been made out to be. Based on a myth, implying he’s got a golden winky. Fratboy type horsing around. Plenty of stuff to wonder about with this guy, but that photo is not one of them, IMO.

 
 
 
 
Comment by SFBayArea
2016-12-16 11:21:44

I missed another epic fascist liberal meltdown by the NY Chick regarding Putin! Darn! And now today Assange of Wikileaks comes on Sean Hannity’s show to personally state for the record that they did not receive any information from the Russians. Wikileaks Craig Murray already told us that he was involved in the email leaking operation. Murray claimed he personally received some of the emails from “disgusted” Democratic whistleblowers during a secret hand-off in Washington. It is now over! The FBI even stated that there is no evidence to support the Russian theory. It is over! If you personally have any evidence of Russian involvement state it now! It turns out someone with a “soul” inside the democratic machine turned your criminal candidate because they couldn’t live with themselves. Clinton is an order of magnitude worse than you believe Putin is. You are just too blind to see it NY Chick.

As for Putin sit down and listen to him sometime. He is one of the smartest leaders of a major power today. And he tells it like it is. He doesn’t baffle us with bullshit like Obama does. We have no right to tell the Russians who to elect and how they want to be ruled. If they elected him and they love him then that’s all there is too it no matter how much you want to stomp your feat. It isn’t your fracken country.

As far as his international policy - he has outdone Obama at every turn. Obama has destabilized the entire Middle East and North Africa. Obama had illegally armed terrorists. Obama had droned innocent civilians to death and bragged about it. Obama’s foreign policy has been an unmitigated disaster.

And don’t get me started on Ukraine. We overstepped our agreed bounds by aggressively attempting to push NATO to the Russian border against our agreement with Russia. Obama stationed anti-ballistic missile defenses in Romania capable of giving NATO a first strike and kill nuclear primacy over Russia and plans to do the same in Poland. This is against our treaties with Russia. And we wonder why he took Crimea for Christ sake? Let’s not forget the Crimea voted to succeed to Russia. It wasn’t like they wanted to join NATO and become part of the leftest hell on earth ruled by un-elected bureaucrats called the EU. They are Russians in case you didn’t know. And there has always been a divide between the Russians of Crimea and the southeastern provinces of Ukraine and the rest of Ukraine going back to the tartars and Lithuanian Empires over half a century ago. That part of Ukraine was integral to Russia. And I don’t know this for fact but it appears as if Obama and Clinton has something to do with the undoing of Ukraine that led to all this. Many theories have been put forth about the coup and the rest. I can’t prove that but the fact that Clinton’s son-in-law is a principle in the new Ukraine smells like rotten fish to me.

Either way NY Chick I don’t go spouting unsubstantiated B.S. as if it were fact. I can’t say I know for sure what Clinton’s role was in the Ukraine. We’ll know that in a few decades when the facts are declassified. You on the other hand are brainwashed and have no evidence to back up your statements regarding Putin’s role in the email leaks. In fact all evidence stands against you. The sooner these fascist socialists are out of office the better. They have no one else to blame but themselves and their failed policies for their loss. if Obama has evidence he should produce it before the world court of public opinion.

Comment by SFBayArea
2016-12-16 12:01:33

Oh this just gets better and better. Not only does the FBI doubt the Russian email hacking claim but just now the NSA came out and said it would be impossible for the Russians to have hacked the Clinton emails without them knowing about it. In other words a hack over fiber did *not* occur. Indeed they say it had to be an inside job where the files were downloaded to a thumb drive or similar. It is over! Clinton lost on her merits or lack thereof. Her own minions rebelled to expose her.

Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 12:49:25

There is always that danger; that someone, sometime, somewhere will tell the truth.

Like a Boy Scout!

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Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 13:29:52

@ SFBayArea

You believe Assange, but you don’t believe your intelligence agencies, including the CIA?

You are a laughing stock in Moscow. I’m a Russian citizen by birth, and an American citizen by choice. I know exactly what Putin is, and what he’s done, and what he will do to this country if he’s not stopped. You don’t.

You are the one supporting a fascist dictator and his self serving lies.

You repeat Russian propaganda lies. They laugh at you, and at other useful idiots like you, and celebrate.

You’re blind to Putin’s fat finger on the scale. It’s not just hacking and emails that rigged the election. It’s the massive attack of disinformation, fake news, hateful memes, and conspiracy theories, spread by his army of propagandists, with the goal to tip the scales in favor of his preferred candidate.

P.S. Clinton’s worse than Putin? How many children did she kill? How many lawfully elected representatives did she torture and murder, by disemboweling and drowning them alive?

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Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 13:52:18

Apparently from your tower in NYC, you can hear laughter all the way from Moscow, but you cannot fathom what is going on in the rest of the USA.

 
Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 14:04:41

I see Russian intelligence services and paid trolls subverting American democracy.

Sad.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 14:20:35

I’m not a paid troll, and the Russians did not implant a radio receiver in my tooth. I’m a Deplorable and we won the election. I doubt anyone is going to get disemboweled over it.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2016-12-16 14:21:50

Let’s just say for a moment that what Obama is saying is true…that they knew about Russia trying to get information from US entities during the election, and they kept relatively quiet about it (certainly quieter than now).

Let’s also remember that during much of the election, there was a bit of a kerfuffle about a certain candidate’s unsecured e-mail server.

How much of the Obama administration’s communication plan on the Russian cyber-efforts was influenced by a desire to NOT place even more focus on the danger (and idiocy) of HRC’s unsecured e-mail server?

 
Comment by PitchforkPurveyor
2016-12-16 14:28:06

Putin’s girlfriend is smoking hot.

 
Comment by SFBayArea
2016-12-16 14:28:18

“I’m a Russian citizen by birth, and an American citizen by choice. I know exactly what Putin is, and what he’s done, and what he will do to this country if he’s not stopped.”

Please tell me then at what age did you leave Russia? And at that age what exactly did you do while you were in Russia to gain your expertise on Putin’s foreign policy objectives? How long did you live under his rule and what exactly did he do that makes you believe he will destroy America? What evidence can you present to back up your claims?

Personally I’ve spent a lifetime studying European History *as a hobby.* I find it fascinating. I enjoy the free online classes from some of the best universities. I read books with a veracious appetite. I don’t fear Putin in the least. He is the leader of one of the great powers. As such he deserves a place at the table of diplomacy- nothing more and nothing less. As far as what goes on inside Russia - I don’t give a damn. The Russian people have selected one insane leader after another and there is no reason for me to care if they do it again. If you ask me Putin is probably the best they have chosen for the last century.

As far as the leak of the damning Democratic emails I base my information on the NSA with whom I have several family members employed. William Binney former Technical Director, World Geopolitical & Military Analysis at the NSA stated:

We have gone through the various claims about hacking. For us, it is child’s play to dismiss them. The email disclosures in question are the result of a leak, not a hack. Here’s the difference between leaking and hacking:

Leak: When someone physically takes data out of an organization and gives it to some other person or organization, as Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning did.

Hack: When someone in a remote location electronically penetrates operating systems, firewalls or any other cyber-protection system and then extracts data.

All signs point to leaking, not hacking. If hacking were involved, the National Security Agency would know it – and know both sender and recipient.

In short, since leaking requires physically removing data – on a thumb drive, for example – the only way such data can be copied and removed, with no electronic trace of what has left the server, is via a physical storage device.

Again, NSA is able to identify both the sender and recipient when hacking is involved. Thanks largely to the material released by Edward Snowden, we can provide a full picture of NSA’s extensive domestic data-collection network including Upstream programs like Fairview, Stormbrew and Blarney. These include at least 30 companies in the U.S. operating the fiber networks that carry the Public Switched Telephone Network as well as the World Wide Web. This gives NSA unparalleled access to data flowing within the U.S. and data going out to the rest of the world, as well as data transiting the U.S.

In other words, any data that is passed from the servers of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) or of Hillary Rodham Clinton (HRC) – or any other server in the U.S. – is collected by the NSA. These data transfers carry destination addresses in what are called packets, which enable the transfer to be traced and followed through the network.

The bottom line is that the NSA would know where and how any “hacked” emails from the DNC, HRC or any other servers were routed through the network.

 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 14:29:15

That’s ridiculous. Those implanted radio receivers only work when the victims are unaware of them.

 
 
Comment by Karen
2016-12-16 14:57:43
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Comment by oxide
2016-12-16 14:25:13

This would be a lot easier of someone would just name the names of the secret disgruntled folks in the Clinton campaign who handed over this little pen drive. It’s not worth a nuke war to keep a promise of secrecy. Actually the best would be if the leaker just came forward himself.

Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 14:46:38

“Actually the best would be if the leaker just came forward himself.”

In the case of the DNC leaks, I don’t think the leaker is able to do that at this time. If indeed it was Seth Rich.

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Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 14:58:31

It would be nice if the Russian agents would come forward, but that they’re not able either.

 
 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2016-12-16 17:25:09

“As for Putin sit down and listen to him sometime. He is one of the smartest leaders of a major power today. And he tells it like it is.”

My, how the narrative has shifted.

 
 
Comment by Neuromance
2016-12-16 17:34:21

How dare those Russians inform the American voter.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 17:58:22

Doing the job the MSM has long since abdicated.

Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 19:43:51

Oh, man, Ray, that’s a good one right there. Considering that “our betters” (in government, media and corporations, etc.) have rubbed our noses in this “doing the jobs Americans won’t do”. So here’s the meme:

“Russians: Doing the jobs the MSM won’t do”.

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Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 20:17:33

OK, except it’s not them. Americans telling on themselves is the most simple answer.

 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 20:51:47

The betters in this case would have to include Trump, who brings in foreigners to work at his Palm Beach resort.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by azdude
2016-12-16 06:01:04

did u miss the santa claus rally?

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
Comment by rms
2016-12-16 08:43:07

“So is the Vancouver real estate market.”

They are leveraged way up there like San Francisco.

 
Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 10:38:42

Speaking of China, it seems they heard there was going to be an international winky measuring contest and they weren’t invited. So they decided to crash the party:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-16/china-seizes-unmanned-underwater-us-navy-vehicle-south-china-sea

Obama to China: Aw, c’mon guys, just give us back the sub, I’m on my way to Hawaii for some golf and Christmas vacay and I only have so much time to start a war with Russia.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2016-12-16 06:34:39

“Investors Are Spitting It Out Now”

Lots of them are going to end up swallowing it.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2016-12-16 06:35:57

“Chinese bond yields soared and authorities halted trading in some futures contracts for the first time on Thursday, as a global bond-market selloff worsened a day after the Federal Reserve signaled a quicker pace of interest-rate increases next year. Between Election Day and this past Wednesday, the global bond selloff has wiped out $1.45 trillion in market value from the Bloomberg Barclays Global Treasury index, which tracks government bonds in both developed and developing countries.”

Oh, the pain…

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-12-16 07:51:37

‘Some of these bubbles have burst over the past 18 months, with the crash in China’s stock market in the summer of 2015 the most notable example. Now the pain has spread to the $9 trillion bond market, which remains overwhelmingly driven by domestic investors’

How short are the memories. Recall the great commodity bubble, and the garlic!

Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 12:21:31

What about the garlic?

Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 12:50:47

You missed that bubble.

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Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 18:11:47

We’re having a hysteria bubble right now. How do I short it?

 
 
 
 
Comment by aqius
2016-12-16 14:10:22

“bubble-headed booby”

 
 
Comment by Jesus Navas is my Lord Savior
2016-12-16 06:49:03

Oh Mr Puti man, please stop hacking American election.

“Overall, state records show 10.6 percent of the precincts in the 22 counties that began the retabulation process couldn’t be recounted because of state law that bars recounts for unbalanced precincts or ones with broken seals.

The problems were the worst in Detroit, where discrepancies meant officials couldn’t recount votes in 392 precincts, or nearly 60 percent. And two-thirds of those precincts had too many votes.

“There’s always going to be small problems to some degree, but we didn’t expect the degree of problem we saw in Detroit. This isn’t normal,” said Krista Haroutunian, chairwoman of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers.”

Comment by 2banana
2016-12-16 07:34:37

Funny how this always happens in heavily democrat controlled areas.

To the benefit of democrats.

ALWAYS.

Makes you wonder why…

Democrats are so against voter ID

Democrats don’t want accurate voter rolls

Comment by redmondjp
2016-12-16 10:14:14

In Seattle/King County, if they don’t like the outcome of an election (in other words, if a candidate with an ‘R’ behind their name is leading), they simply do recount after recount until their preferred candidate wins.

This has happened more than once in the past 20 years. We almost had a republican governor (for the first time since the 1980s) back in the early 2000s, but on the THIRD recount, they “found” previously-uncounted ballots in a closet at election HQ.

You can’t make this stuff up. How they can count newly-discovered ballots on the third recount and get away with it simply defies all logic.

Comment by butters
2016-12-16 15:45:53

but on the THIRD recount, they “found” previously-uncounted ballots in a closet at election HQ.

Same thing happened to Al Franken iirc.

This is what the democrats mean by the most honest election process in da world.

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Comment by taxpayer
2016-12-16 07:40:30

it was rigged and trumpf is getting out of RE today
the chillens get the mess,kinda like the xr’s and millenials everywhere

 
Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 07:50:11

It’s always the same operating basis, isn’t it? Falsely accuse some country of something or other (WMD, terrorism, whatever) and then go to war “at a time and place of our choosing”. Nah, the Middle Eastern countries weren’t good enuf. Now they’re going after a really big fish, Russia. Start a war AND invalidate the election, so the commies can hang onto power. It’s real two-fer. Make no mistake, there is no Democrat party. It’s the Communist party now and probably has been for a while. And the Pravda media has their back.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-16/putin-lashes-out-obama-show-some-proof-or-shut

If Obama is successful and manages to hang on to power on some technicality like martial law or whatever pretext they use, does anyone really think he’ll cede his position to Hillary? (sure, Hillary, just sit tight and I’ll take care of things for you, just hold on a little longer, a little longer, a little longer) Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha.

Anyway, press conference today at 2:15pm.

Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 08:35:31

“I think there is no doubt that when any foreign government tries to impact the integrity of our elections that we need to take action,” Obama told NPR radio.

“And we will, at a time and place of our own choosing.”

When I was a kid, eavesdropping meant pressing a glass against the wall and squishing your ear up to it. I really don’t care much if anybody was doing that last month.

Hey Obama, did your people break some laws and tamper with the election? What’s that; Russia, Russia, Russia? “Intergity” is not deflecting away from the truth of corruption in your own party. Don’t embarrass us any more. Just pack your boxes and leave the place broom clean.

Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 08:48:24

“Don’t embarrass us any more. Just pack your boxes and leave the place broom clean.”

That’s the problem, I think he has no intention of doing so. I thought the people who said he’d embroil us in a war as a pretext to stay in office were tin foil hat. Now I’m not so sure. I’m thinking he’s having a gay old time letting the Hillary camp and the media play right into his hands.

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Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 12:28:04

OMG. You’re reading those Russian-sponsored fake news conspiracy websites, aren’t you?

It’s frightening, to see the lies I constantly see being spouted by Russia propaganda machine readily repeated by Americans.

I always thought Americans were smarter than Russians and wouldn’t fall as easily for this cheap propaganda crap. It breaks my heart that I was mistaken.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 12:53:10

Nah Chick, we’re preoccupied with the lies our own government people are spouting.

 
Comment by Jesus Navas is my Lord Savior
2016-12-16 13:19:51

I always thought Americans were smarter than Russians

You are one dumb f*** if you really believe that.

 
Comment by SFBayArea
2016-12-16 13:34:08

You NY Chicks just suffer from poor sportsmanship. You lost fair and square and now you want to blame your inadequacies on Russia, Blue Skye, palmetto, 2banana and the rest of us. We’ve seen your politically correct feminist hate speech. We’ve accessed your strategic failure in the Middle East and North Africa. We are tired of watching you arm terrorist and plan a nuclear war with Russia. We have had enough of it and you are out! Your Crooks and the rest of the trash are being taken out. I can’t tell you if Trump will do any better but I can say your failed liberal fascist ideology is over.

 
Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 13:44:56

You’re preoccupied with repeating what I see on Russian news, word for word. Good job, falling for their crap.

 
Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 13:48:52

The commies are really butt-hurt they lost Russia, and are hanging on for dear life to their beach head in the US.

 
Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 13:58:59

@SFBayArea

You’re the fascist one. Look it up: “fascism = far right”.

If you wanted to accuse me of being “totalitarian far left”, you should have called me a commie: “communism = far left”.

However, that would have been factually untrue, as I voted republican many times, and detested both Hillary and Sanders.

 
Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 14:06:48

Who told you commies lost Russia? They own it.

 
Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 14:19:08

“Who told you commies lost Russia? They own it.”

LOL, nope, there’s one very good reason I know that’s not true, but I’m not going to get into it here.

 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 14:40:35

They’re former commies, if you want perfect accuracy.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 14:55:14

“The fragile coalition of US President Obama, German chancellor Angela Merkel, and French President Francois Hollande, all waging a futile second cold war on Russia has shattered…

“Obama is gone, Hollande is gone (dropped out), and Merkel is left dangling in a wind strongly blowing against her.”

posted on Mish’s site.

Sorry NYchk, you’re barking up a dead horse.

 
Comment by Karen
2016-12-16 16:45:29

God this woman is a boring, broken record

 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 16:50:11

Now Putin is trying to defeat Merkel.

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 17:03:55

NYchk does seem to have a certain shrill hysteria, but I would not be too quick to discount what she is saying about Putin and the Russians. The fact that they clearly don’t didn’t care for Crooked Hillary and wanted to see Trump win doesn’t necessarily make them our allies. They have their own agenda and they will not hesitate to take advantage of weakness and division.

Also, we don’t want to be an echo chamber in the HBB - let “dissident” voices speak, and weigh what they have to say for its own merits without automatically trying to debunk and antagonize them.

 
Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 20:14:08

“I would not be too quick to discount what she is saying about Putin and the Russians.”

I don’t discount it, actually. I don’t know Putin. I have heard some stories about his brutality toward his enemies. And his indifference to the suffering of others, such as the guys who died in the submarine. And the thuggery and that sort of thing.

With that said, I have heard differing opinions from Russians that I know/have known. Some approve, some don’t. And dang if Americans aren’t similar in their points of view on various politicians. Some love the Donald. Some think he’s a monster. Some love Hillary. Some think she’s the most evil witch that ever walked the face of the earth. Some revere Obama. Some despise him. It’s all in their point of view.

As to Putin disemboweling and drowning people, well, this is very similar to the stories of people the Clintons are said to have whacked. Including children.

 
 
Comment by scdave
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 11:20:50

You’ve got that right. That’s a RINO right there, more liberal than Harry Reid.

 
Comment by scdave
2016-12-16 11:39:51

He is only a RINO in the face of this current group of so called republicans…

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 13:01:51

Yeah, us and Wikileaks.

 
Comment by rms
2016-12-16 19:56:38

“Obama has ordered an extensive U.S. investigation into any foreign meddling in domestic affairs, dating back to 2008.”

Israel continuously meddles in U.S. domestic affairs.

 
 
 
 
Comment by rms
2016-12-16 08:37:54

“…the degree of problem we saw in Detroit.”

Reminds me of the SF bay area… when ever a city bus in Oakland, CA was involved in a crash there were always more victims than could be stuffed into the bus.

 
 
Comment by taxpayer
2016-12-16 07:42:25

housing starts down EUGE

globul warming ?

or rate shock

Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 08:05:34

It’s Putin’s fault, he PERSONALLY hacked the housing market.

Comment by jerzdebil
2016-12-16 08:19:58

Not to mention that Putin also PERSONALLY painted and hung all that pedophile/serial killer art in Tony Podesta’s house. Dude gets around.

Comment by redmondjp
2016-12-16 10:15:59

Well, he may not have hung it himself, but it certainly wasn’t painted without his approval ;)

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Comment by NH Hick
2016-12-16 08:19:20

It’s -7 degrees here in cowhampshire. I’m just glad there is global warming. Just think how cold it would be right now without it!

Comment by rms
2016-12-16 08:41:06

We have -5-degrees F this morning with the wind chill here in eastern Washington’s Columbia Basin.

 
Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 08:50:30

Well, ya know, it IS mid-December.

 
Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 12:30:31

” I’m just glad there is global warming. Just think how cold it would be right now without it!”

You flunked those high school science classes, didn’t you?

Comment by SFBayArea
2016-12-16 14:11:59

NYchk, I would sincerely like to know why you consider yourself an expert in the chemistry of global warming such that you feel you can fire such sarcasm at taxpayer, palmetto, jerzdebil, NH Hick and rms with such self-assuredness. Clearly you must have a degree or something backing up you confidence? Or did you just stay at a Democratic Party Inn last night?

I personally have a degree in chemistry from one of the most august Universities in America. I have worked on computer projects for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration involving weather modeling. I have stayed silent on the topic until now.

My expert opinion is this. If Clinton had won the election and established a no-fly-zone over Idlib in Syria as planned to shelter jihadist from Russian airstrikes we would have started a nuclear war. What do I based this one? Some meme posted on Facebook by Putin perhaps? No I base this on a statement made in front of congress by our own Department of Defense. Assuming that the Department of Defense knows a little more about it than you do and assuming we would have entered a nuclear war I would say the probability of the global temperature departing from normal in a way that it would have been seriously deleterious to our survival would have been much worse than the status quo.

Now I’ve waited patiently for the Democrats to clean up the environment, to take on global warming, to improve our education system, to increase the peace in the world and to find a path to economic growth that will allow for the creation of real jobs for Americans for decades. And they have done none of it. They have destabilized the Middle East and Africa, they have done nothing for the environment and they have hung the middle class out to dry. And don’t get me started about our educational system of which you are clearly a prime example.

Furthermore Obama has done nothing to confront the elephant in the room of global warming and that is China. We have exported our jobs to a communist beast that is an environmental cataclysm and the prime cause of global warming bar none. Have the Democrats used their power to force China to clear its act up? Did they clamp down on them for currency manipulation? Fund R&D? Kick start our educational system by stepping on the necks of the government union goons that imperil the education of our children? They’ve done none of it. Instead they bow down to China with weak knees praising their communist tyrants. Instead they gave us Gore partnering with Goldman Sacks to game the economy with a corrupt trade system that will only lead to one thing and that is billions of dollars in off share accounts in the Cayman Islands for him and his Democratic Party cronies. We’ve tried your way and it was a disaster and we will not try it again. Your time is over.

It is time someone spoke the truth about this issue. I can’t tell you that Trump will do any better. But I can surely tell you that the Democrats have had their chance to solve the issue and it is over!

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Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 14:35:31

Now I’ve waited patiently for the Democrats to clean up the environment, to take on global warming

It doesn’t really work that way. The PTB doesn’t respond to patient waiting. A popular movement was required back in the 60s and 70s. It put pressure on both parties. Richard Nixon was the president who signed the act that established the EPA.

However, that was a long time ago. Currently, the GOP is more responsive to the fossil fuel industry and the Democrats are more interested in the environment.

 
 
Comment by Karen
2016-12-16 16:48:31

You flunked those high school science classes, didn’t you?

You mean the ones where they told me we were on the precipice of a new ice age?

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Comment by redmondjp
2016-12-16 20:03:44

I’m old enough to remember that too. They had the same temperature data back into the 1800s to work with as well, and came to the opposite conclusion just a couple of decades earlier.

Then, of course, there was the ozone hole scare. But apparently since we no longer use aerosol cans (ha ha), that is no longer an issue.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2016-12-17 06:37:01

So long as the stock rally keeps chugging along, who even cares about housing starts or the bond market?

 
 
Comment by palmetto
Comment by taxpayer
2016-12-16 10:23:47

hard to make $ on straight up PCC ,never mend FB’s convoluted model

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2016-12-16 09:10:41

‘Last week, $2 million was lopped off the asking price of apartment 65A. It’s now on the market for $25.9 million, $3.3 million less than what the seller paid in 2014. It’s far cry from 2014, when a penthouse in the building sold for $100 million’

Now that the alt-REIC is running a weekly “who lost the most millions” column, when is the MSM going to say the bubble has popped?

Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 09:38:36

When did they say it was a bubble?

Comment by Ben Jones
2016-12-16 09:59:50

They didn’t and haven’t. That’s the problem, it’s difficult to announce a bubble has popped when they never reported it in the first place.

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2016-12-16 09:18:57

‘In our view, higher mortgage rates will have a more meaningful – and sustained – impact on house prices than lending restrictions alone ever could.’

And the more expensive the housing, the bigger the impact. And to think Case/Shiller was just crowing about how many markets went over their bubble peaks.

Comment by SFBayArea
2016-12-16 11:28:17

Wouldn’t it be a dream if Trump did away with the mortgage interest deduction just as rates are rising?

Comment by Jesus Navas is my Lord Savior
2016-12-16 12:25:46

NA GA HA

Expect more deductions.

 
Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 12:35:32

Even better, lets eliminate mortgages.

This idea, that people can own their own houses, is outdated anyway.

Renters for ever. In Trump-owned rental buildings, of course.

 
Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 12:36:38

Even better, lets eliminate mortgages.

This idea, that people should own their own houses, is outdated anyway.

Renters for ever. In Trump-owned rental buildings, of course.

Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 13:00:24

I thought Ben had a gizmo to prevent that.

Anyway, if people would only spend money that they had and not borrow for 30 years, prices would be affordable for all.

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Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 13:26:48

affordable for all

That sounds like magic.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 14:13:34

It’s only too simple.

 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 14:24:28

It reminds of the old saying - if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 14:49:07

Sometimes, if things are too difficult to understand, they are just ridiculous. My grandparents raised their family in a beautiful little house that today would probably cost $25,000 to build. Along the country roads here there are still inhabited modest cottages that would cost less than $5,000 to build. Anyone should be able to afford that. It seems everyone can afford more than that for a car. I have also set an example myself.

Do you understand the price of houses? Maybe they are ridiculous.

 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 14:54:50

Plenty of people can’t afford $5,000 plus the land.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 15:40:22

Sure, land is worth so much because it will double tomorrow, and then double again.

i found a workaround on that, as have many others who did not want to make a fortune on land.

 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 15:42:20

OK, forget the land. Plenty of people don’t even $5,000 lying around.

 
Comment by butters
2016-12-16 16:07:56

They would have if not for spam/bernank/fellon.

 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 16:13:26

I doubt it.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 16:13:34

I suppose you are right. They probably can afford cable and a smart phone though.

 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 16:25:46

No, there are many who can’t afford those things either.

 
Comment by Karen
2016-12-16 16:54:16

OK, forget the land. Plenty of people don’t even $5,000 lying around.

Oh, for god’s sake

Enough already

 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 17:06:29

Enough already

Sometimes it takes a while to make a point.

 
Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 17:51:32

That you’ve failed Meltdown.

 
Comment by Karen
2016-12-16 19:46:20

The point, Mike, is that nothing is ever good enough for you or gets you off your narrative. Blue Skye talks about $5,000 dollar houses, less than people pay for 6 months’ rent on an average apartment, and you still manage to whine about how people couldn’t afford this. I guess some people will always live under a bridge then.

What price would satisfy you — free?

 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 19:52:43

I see that you don’t want to blame Blue for the tangent that we went off on. The fact of the matter is that these $5,000 houses (forgetting about the land) are in isolated rural areas. Most Americans live in cities or suburbs where things are more expensive. That’s where the jobs are, so they can’t move.

Perhaps I should just stated the more essential point. Eliminating mortgages would reduce prices, but it would also reduce the ability of people to pay for houses. So it’s highly unlikely that house prices would fall enough so that everyone could afford a house.

 
Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 20:07:33

They can rent for half the monthly cost.

Think Meltdown think!

 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 20:50:22

They can rent for half the monthly cost.

Now, that’s irrelevant.

 
Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 22:13:32

And you could have too.

 
Comment by Karen
2016-12-17 00:11:32

Well, people would live somewhere, even if there were no mortgages.

Either they would buy, or they would rent, and prices of both options would be lower.

 
 
Comment by Jesus Navas is my Lord Savior
2016-12-16 13:18:22

On Jan 20, 2017, the USA will become TSA.

Trump States of America, love it or leave it!

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Comment by NYchk
2016-12-16 14:08:57

Or fight.

 
Comment by butters
2016-12-16 15:28:12

Trump will do the groping not some minimum wage moron.

 
Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 15:30:00

You’re full of Donkey Rage.

 
 
 
Comment by new attitude
2016-12-16 12:37:03

it would crush housing… .and the economy. not gonna happen.

 
 
 
Comment by PoohEmoji
2016-12-16 11:39:23

Housing’s tipping point

“In 2004, San Diego home prices were rising so fast that Joe Byrne began entertaining a life-changing prospect: Sell and move”

http://ourcitysd.com/neighborhoods/housing%E2%80%99s-tipping-point/#sthash.gc0bmmfk.PiJJLjj2.dpbs

 
Comment by Puggs
2016-12-16 12:07:38

“…many owners have sold their hotel units for huge losses in recent years, and some have lost their condos to foreclosure.”

HUGE LOSSES. A consistent theme here at the HBB since 2005!

 
Comment by azdude
2016-12-16 13:49:30

I dont want you to miss a third housing boom.

Comment by butters
2016-12-16 15:49:43

There will be none.

Comment by Professor Bear
2016-12-17 05:25:51

Before we find out about any future booms, we first need to survive another crash.

 
 
 
Comment by Puggs
2016-12-16 14:16:09

Funny? Odd? Coincidence?

DOW 19,850

NATIONAL DEBT: 19.950T

 
Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 15:14:25

Census Bureau: 4 Richest Counties in U.S. Are Suburbs of D.C.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/census-bureau-4-richest-counties-us-are-suburbs-dc

A filthy corrupt sewer.

Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 15:58:27

filthy corrupt sewer?

You’re enraging yourself.

Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 16:05:20

And it’s just your style Meltdown.

Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 17:07:37

Well, if you’re trying to be like me that would be a great improvement for you.

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Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 17:34:02

filthy.corrupt.Sewer.

 
 
 
 
Comment by taxpayers
2016-12-16 17:13:03

When it snows 2 inches only Pentagon is working

 
 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 15:17:16

Why do GOP Presidents get to go Hard Right, and Dems are just GOP Lite?

By Juan Cole | (Informed Comment) | – –
I belong to no organized political party. I am a Democrat.

After it was confirmed that Donald J. Trump will appoint former Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson Secretary of State, the shape of the Trump cabinet and team has become clear. Neofascist Steve Bannon is White House Strategist. Openly racist Jeff Sessions is Attorney General (guess how many civil rights actions he is going to initiate). General James “Mad Dog” Mattis is Secretary of War (call it what it is). Notorious Islamophobe and conspiracy theorist, who denies that Islam is a religion, Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn is National Security adviser.

But Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, when they came to power (and both were very popular and had real mandates) did not go left in the way that George W. Bush and now Trump have gone right.

In fact, the anecdote is told that in 1993 Clinton and his cabinet looked around the room at each other and observed, “Here we are, Eisenhower Republicans.” Why?

In fact, the Dems had a Republican serve as Secretary of Defense, which is more a Trojan Horse than a sign of bipartisanship and which exposed Obama to Bob Gates’s vitriol in his memoir after his term. In contrast, when W.’s first Secretary of the Treasury Paul O’Neill was fired and then set out to write a damaging memoir, the Bushies openly threatened him with jail time on the trumped up pretext that he was using classified documents (he wasn’t; he never had access to any).

What kind of signal does it send that a popular Democratic president has to turn to a Republican as Secretary of Defense? That we are wimps? Put an anti-war person into that job. I guarantee you, the GIs won’t mind one little bit. It is the chickenhawks who will squawk.

It seems obvious to me that if this country is going to survive, we need to nationalize the electricity grid and re-do it to promote a quick turn to renewables. We need to get rid of coal and natural gas plants. Call it socialism if you like. Hell, call it Menshavikism. I don’t care. I don’t want my grand-nieces and grand-nephews drowning in a storm surge or being cooked to death. Enron and those big energy companies anyway were nothing but scams. Exxon Mobil spent millions to convince you climate change is a hoax, and now they’ve taken over the Federal government. They are not your friends.

http://www.juancole.com/2016/12/presidents-hard-right.html

Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 16:07:20

Actually, you can’t make the renewables without lots and lots of conventional power plants. The more renewables you make, the more conventional power plants you need. Do all the hydro you can, but the rest is negative return on energy invested.

Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 16:15:43

Are you saying that amount of energy required to manufacture a solar panel is greater than the amount that it will produce in its lifetime?

Comment by redmondjp
2016-12-16 16:40:08

And not only that, Skye, but you STILL NEED conventional power plants to supply the grid (which can’t directly store any energy, although pumped-hydro is grid-connected) when the sun doesn’t shine, or the wind doesn’t blow. So now the electric utilities not only have to operate and maintain the new, alternative energy sites, but they still have to operate and maintain the existing backup plants. That costs a lot of $.

I just got back from a work trip to the Big Island of HI, and you know what? The local utility there WILL NOT let you install new photovoltaic solar panel unless you have on-site battery storage. Why? They have more solar generation than they need and they have no to way to store the excess power.

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Comment by phony scandals
2016-12-16 19:40:18

“It seems obvious to me that if this country is going to survive, we need to nationalize the electricity grid and re-do it to promote a quick turn to renewables. We need to get rid of coal and natural gas plants.”

We just voted on this Juan.

 
 
Comment by azdude
2016-12-16 15:50:09

“the bull market has legs.” expert

Comment by butters
2016-12-16 16:00:50

No it got test1cles and tentacles.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 17:09:31

Ah, the subtle yet important distinction between tentacles and testicles - a clip from “Better Off Dead” (’80s John Cusak movie).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwNurAxrsqY

Comment by Carl Morris
2016-12-16 17:51:22

That’s the one I can’t help but think of every time I hear the word tentacles.

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Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 17:57:11

How bout them falling prices.

Falls Church County, VA Housing Prices Crater 7% YoY

http://www.zillow.com/falls-church-city-county-va/home-values/

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 16:07:17

Downtown Bellevue, WA Housing Prices Crater 10% YoY

http://www.zillow.com/downtown-bellevue-wa/home-values

Comment by redmondjp
2016-12-16 16:42:56

Stop posting bold-faced lies, Housing Analyst.

You obviously have never been to Downtown Bellevue.

There are no houses left there - only Kemper Freeman’s mall and other properties (stolen from the Japanese farmers while they were in internment camps during WWII), and a whole lot of Chinese-owned office buildings.

Since the new tax kicked in up in Vancouver BC, Bellevue is hotter than ever for Chinese buyers.

Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 16:50:43

Relax my good friend and take it up with Zillow.

Kalaheo, HI Housing Prices Crater 12% YoY

http://www.zillow.com/kalaheo-hi/home-values/

 
Comment by Karen
2016-12-16 16:59:53

So why has the median list price gone down 10% in a year?

We can no longer pull the median sales price, as Zillow is now hiding the data.

Comment by taxpayers
2016-12-16 17:16:09

Sale prices on zillow are below estimates by a wide margin

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Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 17:29:51

Falling sale prices…… Falling prices.

 
Comment by redmondjp
2016-12-16 20:07:34

Things are still crazy in the Seattle area. Multiple-offer situations and crazy escalation clauses. I just talked to former neighbors who sold out last year, and the offer on their house had a $5K-higher-than-competing-offers escalation clause on it, up to $105K over the asking price.

 
Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 20:10:03

That’s no more true than the cash buyer narrative.

 
Comment by redmondjp
2016-12-17 10:09:15

Sorry that the truth enrages you, Housing Analyst. News flash: many foreigners have extended family that pool their money so they can buy a house here.

 
Comment by Enrager
2016-12-17 16:01:56

And most importantly. dumb.borrowed.money.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2016-12-17 19:37:37

News flash: many foreigners have extended family that pool their money so they can buy a house here.

But how many of those extended families will still want to buy into houses in a market that is going down?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 16:29:47

FBI backs CIA view that Russia intervened to help Trump win election

By Adam Entous and Ellen Nakashima December 16 at 2:20 PM

FBI Director James B. Comey and Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper Jr. are in agreement with a CIA assessment that Russia intervened in the 2016 election in part to help Donald Trump win the presidency, according to U.S. officials.

Comey’s support for the CIA’s conclusion reflects the fact that the leaders of the three agencies have always been in agreement on Russian intentions, officals said, contrary to suggestions by some lawmakers that the FBI disagreed with the CIA.

“Earlier this week, I met separately with (Director) FBI James Comey and DNI Jim Clapper, and there is strong consensus among us on the scope, nature, and intent of Russian interference in our presidential election,” CIA Director John Brennan said in a message to the agency’s workforce, according to U.S. officials who have seen the message.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-backs-cia-view-that-russia-intervened-to-help-trump-win-election/2016/12/16/05b42c0e-c3bf-11e6-9a51-cd56ea1c2bb7_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_usrussia-224pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a59b751f6255

Comment by phony scandals
 
 
Comment by Patrick
2016-12-16 16:40:35

So - Yellen waited until the last minute before weakly raising rates.

Then (for the first time the Fed ever did this) to ensure chaos after Jan 20 said “three more times next year”.

I thought the Fed was neutral - Yellen’s moves suggest high end democrat.

So glad to see Trump isn’t going to rely on Fed for growth

Comment by new attitude
2016-12-16 16:47:54

I thought Trump has huuuuuge spending plans: wars, walls, deportations, military build up, infrastructure….

Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 17:57:03

Natty! Where ya been? Didja hafta spend some time in the corner? Don’t feel bad, I’ve been there.

Comment by new attitude
2016-12-16 19:36:44

Detention. Had to write an essay about the housing bubble and it’s impact on Exxon’s revenues.

Moscow mule and burrito time.

Namaste

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Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 20:05:50

Hope you enjoyed your RageCage Lola. :mrgreen:

 
 
 
 
Comment by azdude
2016-12-16 16:48:20

She will make trump look like a stooge! Politics is great isn’t it?

All these bubbles were built on cheap money. Take it away and all h@ll will break lose.

I am shining up these br@ss balls of mine and taking more short positions.

Comment by rms
2016-12-17 02:06:33

Janet: Get shorty!

 
 
 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 16:42:17

Trump’s pick for Israel ambassador thinks liberal Jews are “worse” than Nazi collaborators

Updated by Zack Beauchamp
Dec 16, 2016, 11:20am EST

On Thursday, Donald Trump announced his pick for ambassador to Israel: a bankruptcy lawyer named David Friedman. Friedman, who has been a personal friend of Trump’s for about 15 years, has no government experience to speak of.

What Friedman does have is opinions — specifically, what appears to be the most hard-right approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict of any US ambassador to Israel in history.

Friedman has called the two-state solution “a suicidal ‘peace’ with hateful radical Islamists hell bent on Israel’s destruction.” American Jews who support that approach, are in Friedman’s eyes, “worse” than kapos — Jews who helped the Nazis run concentration camps in exchange for special privileges. Here’s the full quote, from a May op-ed in the right-wing Israeli publication Arutz Sheva:

Finally, are [American pro-peace lobby] J Street supporters really as bad as kapos? The answer, actually, is no. They are far worse than kapos – Jews who turned in their fellow Jews in the Nazi death camps. The kapos faced extraordinary cruelty and who knows what any of us would have done under those circumstances to save a loved one? But J Street? They are just smug advocates of Israel’s destruction delivered from the comfort of their secure American sofas – it’s hard to imagine anyone worse.

http://www.vox.com/world/2016/12/16/13980806/david-friedman-trump-israel-ambassador-pick

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 17:07:16

The job of any US Ambassador, anywhere, should be to competently and sensibly represent his government and promote and safeguard Americans and American interests, while at the same time earning the respect and trust of his or her host nation.

Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2016-12-16 17:33:11

That’s old-school thinking. The job is to negotiate deals for your own personal benefit, living in 5-star hotels on the taxpayer dime, and the best part — that sweet diplomatic immunity you get, so you can go around partying with hookers and cocaine without fear of being arrested — live it up! Then walk away with millions. Can’t get any better than being an Ambassador.

 
 
 
Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2016-12-16 16:43:09

Strange. I had thought with the 15% foreign buyer tax, and the 1% vacancy tax, they were trying to cool down the bubble in Vancouver. On the other hand, the BC government announced they are going to start giving away free money for down payments, starting next month. But, it’s only for houses with a max value of $750K, which seems to be on the lower end for Vancouver.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/interest-free-home-loans-bc-1.3897832

“The B.C. government is offering to help first-time homebuyers cover the cost of a mortgage down payment with an interest-free loan.”

“The B.C. Home Owner Mortgage and Equity Partnership program will provide a maximum of $37,500 — or up to five per cent of the purchase price — with a 25-year loan that is interest-free and payment-free for the first five years.”

This is the best quote (lol):

“”Our B.C. government wants to be your partner, if you want to buy your first home.”"

Comment by azdude
2016-12-16 16:46:04

future debt serfs

Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2016-12-16 17:17:35

This is the greatest part of their 5 year free money:

“After the first five years, homebuyers begin making monthly payments at current interest rates.”

“B.C. NDP housing critic David Eby expressed concern about young people taking on debt with the future interest rates unknown. “”

It’s a pretty big gamble. My guess is interest rates will be much higher in 5 years.

But it’s OK. If those borrowers get screwed they will just walk away, declare bankruptcy, like everyone else does. Wait it out for a few years and take out another loan. Who cares, it’s free money!

Comment by azdude
2016-12-16 17:28:49

exactly

They create all this credit out of thin air and then act like they have a huge loss when people default.

Wall street has totally enslaved people.

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Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2016-12-16 16:58:33

– “and payment-free for the first five years”

You see this a lot with cheap furniture stores and stuff: “No payments for 5 years!”, etc. I never understood this.

There once was a time when people worked, saved, and had a *delayed-gratification* approach to big ticket items in life. That is no longer. Life changed and is about instant gratification and borrowing from your own future to pay for toys today.

As a lender I would never offer “no-payments for X years”. If the borrower can’t afford to make payments today, why would I think they could make payments tomorrow?

“I’d gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today”.

Comment by azdude
2016-12-16 17:25:59

the real problem is that fiat dollar use to have value behind it. Now they just extend as much credit to the serfs as they want. It is no different than monopoly.

Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 17:39:38

Well Poet if your dollars are so worthless send them to me.

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Comment by azdude
2016-12-16 17:51:28

what do you call it when you run out of real wealth and you try to substitute fiat for wealth?

 
Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 17:54:35

send.dollars.poet.

 
 
Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2016-12-16 18:14:24

Funny. On one hand, people call her Yellen the Felon, but on the other hand, they *really* want the product she is making.

But I’ll take your dollars too if you don’t want ‘em. :)

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Comment by Patrick
2016-12-16 19:07:07

About 1982 a client of mine asked me to develop a new method of financing their furniture sales. I suggested selling it no payments for a year and no interest either. But increase the price enough to cover the lost interest, even on sales for cash. Then sell the contract to one of the many finance companies at full value because after one year the interest rate the finance company could charge would go up. We didn’t expect many contracts to be paid out after the so called interest free period and hardly any apparently were.

Did sales ever pick up, and as far as I know, not many ever really understood the system. They later increased the “free” zone to two years and then a lot of others started doing the same sales routine.

Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2016-12-16 19:56:56

I had been wondering about that with those furniture store ads for no-payment interest free loans. Like, the furniture store itself isn’t lending the money right? A lot of them look like Mom+Pop shops. I had assumed they were just originators of the loan, but then they sell the loan to someone else, like they do with mortgages. My old mortgage loan was initiated by a local company but then got transferred to Wells Fargo about a month later.

We could make Furniture-Backed Securities (FBS) and trade them.

Sorry if I have misunderstood things, I’m not really a finance guy.

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Comment by Patrick
2016-12-17 09:27:20

The finance companies made huge profits on these loans as probably 99% weren’t paid at end of year. Automatic 26% interest rate kicked in.

So did furniture company because they got the added traffic which sold cash sales at full pop.

Everybody wants something but don’t have the money to buy it - something that seems free - always a market for it.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 16:47:40

The official GOP biography of Trump’s pick for Treasury secretary leaves out his 17 years at Goldman Sachs

http://www.businessinsider.com/mnuchin-bio-gop-omits-goldman-sachs-experience-2016-12

 
Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 17:04:24

Harrison, ID Housing Prices Crater 16% YoY

http://www.zillow.com/harrison-id/home-values/

Comment by azdude
2016-12-16 17:17:43

I had to hawk the chevy today.

Comment by redmondjp
2016-12-16 20:09:58

Did you get the $50K you were asking for it?

 
 
 
Comment by taxpayers
2016-12-16 17:23:29

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/215-E-12th-St-New-York-NY-10003/2123531412_zpid/

Zillow calling manhattan up next year.we know it’s tanking now.

 
Comment by MightyMike
2016-12-16 17:35:26

Jerry Brown Vows to Fight Trump on Climate: “California Will Launch Its Own Damn Satellite”

“We’ve got the scientists, we’ve got the lawyers, and we’re ready to fight.”

INAE OH
DEC. 15, 2016 10:21 AM

Speaking to a room of scientists on Wednesday, California Gov. Jerry Brown (D) vowed to protect the state’s progress in the fight against global warming and challenge any attempt by Donald Trump to interfere with climate science.

“We’ve got the scientists, we’ve got the lawyers, and we’re ready to fight,” Brown said at the American Geophysical Union Conference in San Francisco. “We’re ready to defend. California is no stranger to this fight.”

“Whatever Washington thinks they are doing, California is the future,” said Brown. Pointing to California’s record of leading the way on vehicle emissions restrictions and renewable energy, he suggested the state might even launch its own space program if Trump follows through with his advisers’ efforts to end NASA’s role in climate science.

“If Trump turns off the satellites, California will launch its own damn satellite,” Brown said to loud applause. “We’re going to collect that data.”

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/12/jerry-brown-california-climate-change-donald-trump

Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 17:48:53

Given the record poverty and debt in CA, they can’t afford to launch a paper airplane.

Comment by azdude
2016-12-16 18:04:48

1/3 of ca on medical.

Comment by butters
2016-12-16 18:12:22

2/3 on drugs.

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Comment by phony scandals
2016-12-16 19:10:16

“California Will Launch Its Own Damn Satellite”

A Sanctuary Satellite?

 
Comment by rms
2016-12-17 02:15:44

California needs its own printing press.

 
Comment by taxpayers
2016-12-17 06:43:37

Bis owners see this and pick any other state

 
 
Comment by azdude
2016-12-16 18:06:54

when credit and money creation grow faster than real wealth for a considerable time, u get bubbles!

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 18:14:36

Sad panda of the year: Hillary arrives at hotel to explain to her oligarch donors that she won’t be dispensing the graft and patronage they paid for up front.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/12/16/expression-caught-hillary-shes-face-mega-donors-doesnt-go-unnoticed-424630

 
Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 18:14:38

Get what you can get for your house today because it’s going to be less tomorrow for years to come.

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
 
Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 18:20:32

One the first day of Christmas Crater Administrator gave to thee, a Rage Cage and Joshua Tree.

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
 
Comment by Apartment 401
2016-12-16 18:27:13

Biggie — Friends Of Mine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIFWPUGrzT8

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 19:01:58

Jim Carrol - People Who Died

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6pPLeXsd9A

 
Comment by phony scandals
2016-12-16 19:57:15

I am going to send Biggie — Friends Of Mine lyrics to Social Justice Warrior Snowflake singer-songwriters Lydia Liza and Josiah Lemansk and see what they can do.

Couple rewrites ‘Baby It’s Cold Outside’ to emphasize importance of consent

By Alexandra King, CNN
Updated 9:37 PM ET, Fri December 2, 2016

(CNN)A couple from Minnesota has re-imagined the classic Christmas song “Baby It’s Cold Outside” for a 21st-century audience, changing the song’s lyrics to emphasize the importance of consent.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/02/us/baby-its-cold-outside-cover-trnd/

NOTORIOUS B.I.G. LYRICS

“Friend Of Mine”

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/notoriousbig/friendofmine.html

 
 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-16 18:41:47

It’s all Huma’s fault. And Putin’s. The revulsion all decent people felt toward Hillary had nothing to do with it.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/12/15/election-hillary-staffers-rage-huma-really-dont-give-st-happens-424020

 
Comment by phony scandals
2016-12-16 19:17:10

Mooch is Hopeless

Michelle Obama says America is entering a time of hopelessness

WITW STAFF12.16.16

“We are feeling what not having hope feels like,” Obama told Winfrey in response to a question about whether President Obama had achieved the “hope and change” he promised while campaigning in 2008.

http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2016/12/16/michelle-obama-says-america-is-entering-a-time-of-hopelessness/

Comment by palmetto
2016-12-16 20:30:46

“We are feeling what not having hope feels like,”

And I know ED ZACHARY how that feels, because that’s the way I felt in early 2015, staring at the prospect of JEB! vs Hillary. And then Trump came down that escalator…

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2016-12-16 20:39:33

Sad. Didn’t her school lunch program fulfill her life’s goals?

 
Comment by rms
2016-12-17 02:27:09

Gonna have to make those mo-gage payments again? Hopelessness.

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-17 07:40:50

The corporations who benefited financially from Obamacare will ensure the Obamas are generiously rewarded for their “public service,” just like the Clintons were.

 
 
 
Comment by phony scandals
2016-12-16 22:14:20

OBAMA BLAMES ‘TALK RADIO,’ ‘DOMESTIC PROPAGANDISTS’ FOR RISE OF STATE-SPONSORED ‘FAKE NEWS’

Dec 16, 2016

https://news.grabien.com/story-obama-blames-talk-radio-domestic-propagandists-rise-state-sp

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-17 06:49:21

He says all this without the slightest trace of irony, despite the MSM being the corporatocracy’s media lapdogs and purveyors of the demonstrably false Narrative.

 
 
Comment by The Enrager
2016-12-16 22:14:57

crushing.housing.losses.

 
Comment by azdude
2016-12-17 06:15:39

my house has become my savings.

 
Comment by taxpayers
2016-12-17 06:46:03

Is your county negative for the year?
I figure Nov,Dec will chop off 2% it does most years and w the mort rate jump price should drop Nov,Dec this year
Bigly

Sound off,where u at Willis?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2016-12-17 06:51:54

‘And you can’t sell it, there’s no market.’

Dumb question of the day: Would a market magically appear if sellers reduced their asking prices enough?

Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-17 07:16:54

Supply and demand, my friends. Supply and demand. Notwithstanding the stamping of little feet of delusional entitled FBs who refuse to “give it away” and will therefore sink deeper underwater.

 
 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-17 06:55:49

I smell fear. Is that you, FB denizens of The Swamp?

http://wolfstreet.com/2016/12/16/washington-dc-house-price-bubble-at-crossroads/

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-17 06:58:15

Les Deplorables still want to lock up Crooked Hillary and every other criminal sociopath of the .1%.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-applauds-supporters-violent-behavior-campaign-trail-2016-12

 
Comment by phony scandals
2016-12-17 07:07:24

Didn’t someone here say they were moving if Donald Trump was elected President of The United States Of America?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwDvF0NtgdU

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-17 07:07:50

While Obama was gun sales of the century, and Crooked Hillary would’ve caused an even more massive gunning-up of Les Deplorables, will Trump’s victory result in Americans feeling more secure about the nation’s future (and less of a need or sense of urgency about stockpiling up guns and ammunition)?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/12/16/americans-bought-17850-tons-of-ammo-in-last-12-months/

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2016-12-17 07:11:33

Pretty soon the Real Journalists at the NYT will be burning the furniture, as the proles are rejecting the fake news and The Narrative pushed by the MSM and seeking out real news and real truth in the blogosphere instead.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2016/12/16/new-york-times-vacate-eight-office-floors-part-retrenchment-plan/

 
Comment by azdude
2016-12-17 07:14:46

go.fund.me

help me get my truck title back!

 
Comment by phony scandals
2016-12-17 08:01:25

The coments tell the story of this story.

Fox Deceptively Edits Obama Interview to Falsely Claim He Told Illegal Immigrants to Vote

by Alex Griswold | 11:48 am, November 7th, 2016

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-business-deceptively-edits-obama-interview-to-falsely-claim-he-told-illegal-immigrants-to-vote/

 
Comment by In Colorado
2016-12-17 09:02:27

The FHA raised its loan limit in my county by about 40K to 376K. I guess they’re running out of locals who can cough up 75K for a down payment. I guess this means that the median price is going to get a bump here, at least for a while

 
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