Heading Into A Rent-Reducing Glut
A report from Philadelphia Magazine in Pennsylvania. “The real estate sections in local and regional media of late, most definitely including this one, have been awash with stories about new luxury rental developments. Hardly a day passes without an announcement of a new high-end project on the drawing boards or a ribbon-cutting at a newly completed one. This boom in high-end apartment construction in Philadelphia comes as a similar one nationwide enters its eighth year. That’s about the point where market cycles come to an end as supply begins to outstrip demand, and when that happens, those developers who find themselves standing instead of sitting when the music stops usually have to resort to price cuts to fill vacant units.”
“Lauren Gilchrist, vice president and director of research at JLL, sees signs that it’s getting awfully close if it hasn’t peaked yet. Gilchrist noted that about 8,300 new rental housing units have been delivered or are on their way since 2012, and another 3,200 are in the planning stages. ‘I’m beginning to hear from developers about significant concessions being offered to new tenants,’ she said. ‘Absorption has slowly begun not to keep pace with the delivery of new units.’”
“Gilchrist doesn’t see the bursting of a bubble on the horizon here, but she does see the high-end market softening in the near term: ‘Projects not yet in the development pipeline may be riskier than they were a year ago.’”
The IndyStar in Indiana. “I’ve written about real estate in three cities since 2011 — Milwaukee, Baltimore and Indianapolis — and have spent much of my time asking the same question: When will developers stop building luxury apartment buildings? The answer remains unchanged — for now. The nation’s inexplicable apartment boom will persist for at least another year. But there is evidence that it’s waning.”
“Developers are expected to complete 3,700 new apartments in metropolitan Indianapolis this year, including 1,023 Downtown, according to apartment brokerage firm Tikijian Associates. The firm also projects that 1,528 apartments will open Downtown in 2018. Apartment construction has surged in almost every large U.S. city, turning vacant lots into mid-rises and fulfilling the millennial dream of granite countertops. Most experts have predicted the bubble will burst — some day — while marveling at just how many people are willing to pay more than $1,000 a month to live in buildings with theater rooms and pools.”
“Much of last year’s eye-popping rent growth can be attributed to new luxury buildings that opened, said George Tikijian, senior managing director of Tikijian Associates. But, for existing buildings, Indianapolis rent growth is following a national trend that suggests the apartment boom as we know it is almost over. ‘I do think we’ve probably seen peak rent growth and peak occupancy growth for the next few years,’ Tikijian said.”
From Crain’s New York. “The market for land in Manhattan fell precipitously in 2016 according to data from the real estate services firm Cushman & Wakefield. The dollar volume of land sales dropped to just under $3 billion in Manhattan, a 74% decrease from the year prior, as the number of transactions fell by nearly 40%.”
“The data is further evidence that the land market has taken a drubbing amid concerns about an oversupply of residential units in the city, especially high-end condos. Sales have also become difficult to finance as banks have pulled back on lending to land deals. Construction financing has also become more difficult to source, discouraging buyers.”
“According to Bob Knakal, Cushman’s chairman of investment sales, the drop in land prices was not reflected in the company’s report because prospective sellers have not yet adjusted to the slow down and have still insisted on top-dollar sums reflective of the frothy land values from over a year ago. Knakal said that parcels that might have commanded $800 per square foot over a year ago were now roughly 25% cheaper to buy, or around $600 per square foot, a discount that will become clearer in the coming months as more deals take place.”
“‘It takes awhile, a year to 18 months, before sellers get used to the new reality and begin selling at the new market prices,’ Knakal said.”
From Reason Magazine on Texas. “The retirement fund for firefighters and police officers in Dallas is more than $5 billion in the red, and Mayor Mike Rawlings thinks someone should have to go to jail for messing things up so badly. The big problem for the Dallas pension fund is that benefits promised by city officials were too generous relative to what the city was contributing, and the investment returns failed to make up the difference. It overinvested in real estate (at one point, the Dallas police and fire pension plan had the highest percentage of real estate holdings of any major pension fund in the country, according to one report), leaving it vulnerable to downturns in the housing market.”
A letter to the editor in The Citizen in Georgia. “If you lived in Fayette County over the past 20 years, you might remember the enthusiastic multi-family apartment debate in Peachtree City. Developers were saying hundreds more apartment units were needed in the city and many residents were questioning the logic of bringing in more multi-family rental housing. Development interests wanted the apartments because it was profitable and investment money was plentiful. Eventually, we end up with over-supply of rental housing. With the glut comes slashing rents and offering concessions to attract renters, which crashes the entire market.”
“Chasing single millennials with apartments when the market in downtown Atlanta is heading into a rent-reducing glut is foolishness, especially when millennial families are opting for single-family housing. As with housing preference, another fallacy is millennials will not drive cars. J.D. Power’s Power Information Network reported that the share of the millennials in the new car market increased 28 percent. Millennials are estimated to be 40 percent of the nation’s cars sales by 2020.”
“We do not need to be fooled and we must remind ourselves that suburbs are continuing to outstrip downtowns in overall population growth, diversity and even younger residents. Three-quarters of people age 25 to 34 live in metro suburbs. Building apartments and other high-density housing is not the answer to any of our problems and could cause further problems, especially when the units are built with materials denoting a short useful lifespan.”
‘Most experts have predicted the bubble will burst’
Maybe, but you read it here first.
Let’s be honest.
Most experts do not even call it a bubble until it bursts.
Voice in the wilderness.
I simply stumbled upon the multifamily bubble when I moved to the Phoenix area in 2014. But I recognized it when I saw and heard talk about it. Here’s a big difference though: lot’s of people were reporting about a housing bubble in 2004 or 2005. How many people even know about this apartment boom? Yes, there are a smattering of reports, more and more every week. But given the size it’s still way under reported. Meanwhile the single family housing bubble is back, bigger than ever in some places.
Office, retail seem to be buckling. Malls are in a possible death spiral. Commercial real estate took down the Texas banks/S&L’s in the 80’s. People then lost their jobs (jobs the oil bust hadn’t already wiped out) and the houses were next. If we get just a recession, these luxury apartments will be a bloodbath.
Seeing a lot of newly vacant commercial space downtown.
“If we get just a recession, these luxury apartments will be a bloodbath.”
A bloodbath which the wealthy will, once again, enjoy picking at the carcass of.
That’s why they think that a recession is good to have once every few years. They also keep wages down for the hoi polloi.
Do you really believe wages will triple or quadruple to meet rigged prices that are 300% higher than long term trend?
Of course not.
Prices will continue to fall to dramatically lower and more affordable levels meeting wages.
Twelve years ago, most experts didn’t acknowledge the existence of bubbles.
Progress!!!
This is who wrote the letter to the editor:
Steve Brown, commissioner
Fayette County Board of Commissioners
Peachtree City, Ga.
From the comments:
‘ginga1414 wrote on Wed, 01/11/2017 - 2:53pm
Amen, Commissioner Brown!! I just shake my head everytime I drive past the new apartment complex going up on Hwy. 54 across from Truett’s Luau. Particle board construction!!?? Balconies and patios so close to Hwy. 54 the residents will be able to carry on conversations with folks stopped at the red light!! A quick fix is never a good solution to problems, and it is more than obvious that some of our elected officials, planners, and developers are grabbing onto the quick fix bandwagon. The elected officials and planners are trying to make a name for themselves, which translates into future opportunities and money. The developers are just looking for money. Forget about quality lifestyle. Quick fix money is the name of the game.’
‘mudcat wrote on Wed, 01/11/2017 - 3:50pm
That’s a bad one, Ginga. Poorly designed and poorly built. Can’t imagine any planning professional or planning commission approving something like that without any attempt at a buffer - landscaped or natural. I mean Jim Williams, of all people is a Fayeteville City Councilman and he voted for that monstrosity? Say it isn’t so. Just a matter of time before we see a “Car strikes building” headline and photo. And when Brown is right - he is right. Catering to this Visioning Group and their slobbering adoration of all things Millennial is really getting old.’
The “millenial thing” was an invention of the industry to explain away what would otherwise be seen as insanity.
Like “equity”, millenials are a fallacy.
The Millenials themselves aren’t an invention.
The invention was that Millenials were going to stay 24, single, carless, and crave artisan coffee, craft beer, and “vibrant communities” forever. Or, that there would be wave after wave of such Millenials to fill those who left. Yeah well, the first wave of Millenials outgrew it, the second wave of Millenials can’t afford it, and the next wave is still in middle school, at the oldest. Generation SBUX is OVER.
Bahhhhhhhhhh
Millenials are boned
‘State-of-the-art pools, private fitness studios and granite counter tops are coming to Dallas as a record amount of new, luxury apartments are rising up throughout the area. New figures released by apartment data firm Axiometrics show Dallas is the #2 metro area for luxury apartment construction, second only to New York City.’
“Call it a luxury. It is a luxury to have a great quality of life,” said Lucy Billingsley of the Billingsley Company. Billingsley’s company is investing in several planned, high-end rental complexes in the Dallas area. “The typical person would be surprised because the typical person doesn’t have on their radar, where’s the growth in the country,” said Billingsley.’
‘She said her company is targeting soon-to-be retired couples who are selling their homes and newly-arriving Millennials who are making higher wages.’
‘Developers said they do not expect the amount of building to continue at the current rate but they do expect the area to continue growing for at least another two years.’
“The typical person would be surprised because the typical person doesn’t have on their radar, where’s the growth in the country,” said Billingsley.’
Meanwhile, Wal-Mart is hurting because pauperized ‘Murican consumers are switching to the Dollar Store. The “typical person” gets a “typical paycheck” that increasingly can’t afford “luxury” housing.
Yeah, they can see what most can’t. It reminds me of how people from outside an area would go to a place like Marfa Texas and start buying houses, sure that these local yokels couldn’t see the gold mine they had.
I was thinking about how oxide is paying 10 dollars for a buck in equity, for years (discussed on the previous thread). And she is convinced she sees the light when others don’t. The problem is the 30 year loan, where you buy the house at a glacial pace. This is probably where the bubble started. Instead of making houses affordable, it’s been the exact opposite. Then it takes on a life of its own. Before you know it, houses that cost $25,000 to build are priced at hundreds of thousands or even millions.
And where did the 30 year loan grow out of? The GSE’s.
paying 10 dollars for a buck in equity…
I can so sympathize. I’ve done that!
The 30 yr is no accident. After you spend some years in school and the gladiator ring of entry level jobs, that’s about all you got to give up to the banks. It’s a cryin shame in retrospect, but you can’t tell young fools anything.
Freedom is actually very cheap. It is the slavery that is expensive.
Sign up for that and theres nothing but singing this day after day, year after year.
https://youtu.be/BdWEbweX1rQ
It’s not the 30 years that gets you. It’s the 7-year frontload. That 7 years is definitely no accident. Banks saw that 7 years was the average move time and predicated their amortization around it to maximize profit.
Housing is a long game. You may pay $10 for a buck in equity at the beginning, but in my situation, at the end of the days I’ll probably end up paying $1.50 for a buck in equity. Which is still better than renting.
DebtDonkeyMath
The amortization schedule is just math, and is a gradual change from interest dominating to principal dominating over the 30 years.
There is nothing nefarious about your 7 year number…it’s just how the math works out.
When you pay twice what you should for a house, and pay twice that amount because it is financed for decades, you’re lucky to in the end pay $4 for $1 of equity. So, only throwing $3 away vs whatever rent might be. This works in the long run only if rents go up to the moon relentlessly, which of course was the original assumption. In the meantime, you have rooms for each of your extremities and more to spare.
Congratulations on shaking off the PMI.
Rents usually increase quite a bit over a 30 year period.
Rental rates would have to triple to make renting more costly.
Just perform the math.
Skye, we’ve been through this before. I chose a stable 20+ year job in an expensive area over cheap housing in a freezing and/or dying state with unstable employment. I still believe I made the correct choice.
FYI, my 3/2 base PITI is about the same as the rent on a 2-bed flat nearby, and I expect those rents to increase over the next 15+ years.
And it’s how much more than your former rent? And your losses to depreciation?
:Crickets:
San Rafael, CA Housing Prices Crater 17% YoY
http://www.movoto.com/san-rafael-ca/market-trends/
Fed pays its fellow banksters $12 billion for “excess reserves” funded by taxpayers.
http://wolfstreet.com/2017/01/11/fed-pays-banks-12-billion-in-taxpayer-money-for-2016-excess-reserves/
2 trillion of QE sitting in bank reserves of the 4.2 outstanding; a lot more than the idiotic repurchase of shares -
This is bank lunacy.
They print counterfeit fiat so reduce unemployment !! They print to encourage inflation - meanwhile the banks just store it reducing velocity which reduces inflation !!!
And somehow the free money they got they get paid for storing it !!!
Yet, they cannot seem to get their numbers off 30 (16 would be nice).
And the fed doesn’t recognize it’s mbs losses !!!
This truly is bank lunacy.
How bout it my friends….. how bout it.
Coral Gables, FL Housing Prices Crater 8% YoY
http://www.zillow.com/coral-gables-fl/home-values/
The claim that millennials will not own or use cars is false. But the idea that they will have the same openness to long commutes or that they will not necessarily be the one driving the cars is true.
Uber and automated cars are already showing us that things are changing.
Also changing is the notion that you absolutely need a car to be an adult.
More people will be able to work from home and less people will choose not to live in a distant ezueb just to afford some poorly built mass produced mcmansion on a small lot in a dead area.
and people today can live with a lot less stuff, no more bookcases filled with cd lp’s vhs dvd’s or books drawers under the bed flat screen and no 200 lb tube tv, so you need a lot less room, a 1 bedroom with an outside space is fine for a couple.
It’s pretty obvious you’ve never lived with a woman
Plenty of room for a 20 seat formal dining set in a 1 bedroom apartment!
Separate bathroom or a large master bath is necessary when living with a woman. I cant stand the face washes and make up removers left around my sink.
Ha, if you’re think it’s bad now, wait until she’s older and starts showing some wrinkles.
At some point, does it make sense to move all that equipment into the garage?😛
I do appreciate her efforts, though.
Real estate isn’t the only thing about to get it’s bubble bursted.
OK Gloria Allrage.
http://www.loscerritosnews.net/2016/12/30/cerritos-realtor-mario-gonzalez-arrested-in-escrow-fraud-scheme-that-netted-over-500k/
Cerritos Realtor Mario Gonzalez Arrested in Escrow Fraud Scheme That Netted Over $500K
http://vancitycondoguide.com/the-big-boom/
If you didn’t have to pay your property taxes, would you?
Nah. Didn’t think so. Neither do more than six thousand families living in Vancouver who’ve decided to take advantage of a plan cooked up by the myopic muppets that voters choose as leaders. Astonishingly, citizens over the age of 55 can elect to not pay their taxes, instead just handing over interest on the outstanding amount – at the rate of 0.7%. Ahem. Yes. That’s less than 1%.
So why would you pay $6,000 a year when instead you can pay $42, deferring the entire amount until you sell your house for a windfall profit to a greater fool? In fact this pogey-for-geezers program was even extended to families of all ages in 2010. So long as they can find 2.7% interest ($162 on a six grand bill), no tax.
This is not a new thing. But the explosive use of the program is – up 500% in the last decade. Yes, during the greatest bubble in Canadian history, when 90% of the homeowning population of Vancouver became paper millionaires. And it also comes (as we told you yesterday) when the province has decided to send tax rebate cheques to everyone living in a house worth less than $1.6 million. That’s the new BC poverty line.
The two plans together will cost taxpayers about a quarter billion dollars, which makes the kids go crazy. “It seems counterintuitive because the very group that reaps the most benefit from the escalation of home values are those who have been in the housing market for longer and very often it is those who are 55 or older,” says the dude in charge of Generation Squeeze, being weirdly polite.
Well, remember that revolution I spoke of yesterday? Bay Street may be beating you to it.
Analysts Jason Bilodeau and David Doyle (Macquarie Capital) are calling out one major bank and two serious mortgage lenders because real estate is headed for a wall. The downgrades involve CIBC, Home Capital and Genworth – major players in the residential mortgage business that Macquarie thinks will be whacked as housing loses a potential 30% of its value. Investors are being warned to trim their exposure to these giants – while everyone’s being cautioned about the economic ripples that would ensue.
You know why. Households are leveraged up the wazoo. Mortgage debt is epic. Wages are flat. And real estate now accounts for way too much of the overall economy. Warns Macquarie: “Many key metrics are at or above levels seen in the U.S. prior to its most recent housing crisis and are growing worse.” And add in the Moister Street Test, new restrictions on loans to the self-employed and landlords plus the coming premiums lenders will have to pay to insure the loans they make, and the whole sector looks unsustainable. Plus, interest rates are going up. Maybe way faster than most people expect.
About half the loans Home Capital now has on the books would not qualify to be made under the new rules. Genworth’s business is mostly high-ratio, high-risk stuff. And the Bank of Commerce has more domestic exposure than most other banks, who enjoy a big revenue stream from foreign ops.
“If a housing correction unfolds, we believe that there is likely to be material downside to the current operating outlook for domestic lenders,” Macquarie says in its report. “A true correction in Canadian housing activity would likely have material negative implications for economic activity and employment, mortgage industry loan growth and consumer credit performance.”
There’s more.
News agency Reuters blew the whistle this week on bundled loans – which are right up there with the Bank of Mom in getting around federal mortgage-tightening guidelines. The net result is to lever people into houses who actually (according to the rules) can’t afford them.
With a bundled loan, borrowers combine funds coming from a subprime lender (there are lots of them around, and growing) with more cash emanating from a Mortgage Investment Corporation, which is unregulated. It allows buyers to have down payments of only 10% and still avoid having to obtain (or qualify for) mortgage insurance.
By the way, the share of the entire $1.6 trillion mortgage market now occupied by unregulated, subprime lenders has doubled (to almost 13%) in the past 10 years – just as real estate values and household debt have exploded. Says housing bear economist David Madani, “This is what happens at the late stage of a housing bubble — the quality of lending goes down.” Along with parental lending, these shadowy bundled loans are a growing way young buyers are skating around stricter lending standards, plus loan-to-value rules.
So what?
So, if and when a housing correction sweeps over us, more and more people will be in personal financial trouble. More lenders will feel it. More economic damage will occur. And the more you’ll wish (a) you never pushed your poor daughter to buy that condo and (b) that you’d sold the house for big bucks last year, rented for a while, then vultched like a vicious Viking.
Oh dear. Suddenly, home sale agreements are falling apart across the US. Haven’t we seen this movie before?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-11/suddenly-home-sale-agreements-are-falling-apart-across-the-u-s
160 million ‘Muricans can’t afford to treat a broken arm as hope n’ change continues to pauperize the middle and working classes.
http://www.businessinsider.com/160-million-americans-in-severe-financial-distress-2017-1
Fortunately, for me, my ER copay is still $75. But for all those poor schlubs on HD plans, they might have to pay the entire bill. Of course, the good folks at the ER will be more than happy to introduce you to Mr. Banker and his dotted line special.
Shoot, heaven forbid you get a large hospital bill. Friend had a collapsed lung, after a minor operation and 4 nights in the hospital the hospital to insurance “invoice” was $87,000
Order books drop, headcount shrinks, stock rises. Heckova job, Yellen.
http://wolfstreet.com/2017/01/10/boeing-three-waves-of-layoffs-in-2017-as-orders-collapse-to-7-year-low/
I don’t know if we can blame Yellen for a slumping global airliner market. Or for the fact the Airbus did a better job with its narrow body jets than Boeing.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/12/news/companies/boeing-chases-airlines-for-max-10/index.html
Investors Bolt Mexico as Peso Enters Free Fall
Any tears here?
I asked about shorting the Peso a few days ago.
probably still a good bet.
The down side is that the Mexodus will come roaring back. Hopefully the new administration will be serious about the border and quickly deporting those who are caught.
Will come roaring back? It never stopped. And to it was added the Centram exodus. And then a renewal of the Cubano exodus.
What has been lost on people is the significance of the military people in Trump’s cabinet. Most seem to think it means more of the same adventuring around the world. Ha-ha, no. The US has been invaded, and not just by folks from south of the border. It’s going to take a military operation, maybe several, to handle that.
I sincerely hope that you are wrong about military campaigns on our soil. It should be police.
My take on the cabinet picks is that Trump is looking for Boy Scout types.
“A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.”
“It should be police.”
One of the elements that needs cleaning up, unfortunately. What with civil asset forfeiture and other such things. Also note I said military “operation”, not “campaign”.
We have been invaded, and to some degree, conquered or colonized, if you will. Historically, when that occurs, citizens of the conquered or colonized country are forced to pay tribute in the form of taxes to the colonizers, to feed and educate their children, to tolerate and later adopt the language and customs of the colonizers, to accommodate atrocities against themselves in favor of the colonizers, often aided and abetted by the “police”, as we saw at some of the Trump rallies in California.
This may not have reached your neck of the woods as yet, as I suspect it may not yet be that attractive to groups of colonizers. I can assure you, through my own personal experience, that these phenomena exist in my part of Florida.
Boy Scouts that work at Goldman Sachs…
Dont forget all the Chinese with fake Yuan. No assimilation at all. Not hard working field workers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH8sSKwS_gU
What has been lost on people is the significance of the military people in Trump’s cabinet. Most seem to think it means more of the same adventuring around the world. Ha-ha, no. The US has been invaded, and not just by folks from south of the border. It’s going to take a military operation, maybe several, to handle that.
You’re making a yuuge assumption there. Those military people never studied what you’re talking about West Point. They probably don’t that its their job to enforce immigration law.
Habitual lying makes one incoherent. Just saying.
You still should apologize for yesterday’s whopper.
I typed that out quickly and dropped a couple of words. That’s not incoherent. And it wasn’t a whopper.
Whopper!
Will come roaring back? It never stopped.
It didn’t stop, but the reduction has been noticeable in my neck of the woods. According to Pew Research, net migration from 2009 - 2014 was -190,000.
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/
But if the Mexican economy crashes then it could become a torrent again.
Deportations Drop 73% Under Obama, Hit 43-Year Annual Low
http://www.mrctv.org/blog/deportations-drop-73-under-obama-hit-43-year-annual-low
or A record number of people were “removed” from the U.S. during President Obama’s tenure as President.
http://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/
Yellen’s flying monkeys are at it again, agitating for “fiscal stimulus.” Debt-fueled growth and funny-money “stimulus” are no substitute for real wealth creation through productive enterprises and value-added labor.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/12/feds-bullard-says-10-year-yield-is-settling-as-markets-look-to-trump-and-gop-to-deliver-on-growth-promises.html
There was a great disturbance in China this morning, as millions of Bitcoin bagholders cried out in horror and were suddenly silenced.
http://wolfstreet.com/2017/01/12/bitcoin-collapses-chinese-latecomers-get-fleeced/
The wealthy chinese are starting to look like sea turtle hatchlings… running for the ocean with their loot, through a gauntlet of land predators, only to find the water even more dangerous.
For it is nature’s way…
They’re all dumb.borrowed.money. All of them.
Reuters Top News @Reuters 4h4 hours ago
U.S. property foreclosures at 10-year low in 2016
Remove the moratoriums and click refresh.
So back to the level right before the massive wave of foreclosures?
https://1canadanews.com/canadian-mortgage-fraud-spikes-52-as-home-prices-soar/
Canadian Mortgage Fraud Spikes 52% As Home Prices Soar
Mark Hanson @MrMarkHanson Jan 11
UH-OH…11-11 HOUSE PURCHASE APPLICATIONS PLUNGE POST-RATE SURGE: Purchase Applications now DOWN 18% from last year.
https://www.mba.org/news-research-and-resources/newsroom …
Jesse Colombo @TheBubbleBubble 10h10 hours ago
2017: The Year When the World Economy Starts Coming Apart:
https://ourfiniteworld.com/2017/01/10/2017-the-year-when-the-world-economy-starts-coming-apart/ …
Has anyone tried that new Cancer spread?
Ingredient in Nutella may cause cancer, study finds
Michelle Robertson Updated 7:27 am, Thursday, January 12, 2017
http://www.sfgate.com/food/article/Nutella-ingredient-may-cause-cancer-study-finds-10851666.php
I’m guessing that if you ate Nutella in the amounts necessary for the risk to be non trivial, you would probably die of a heart attack first.
Seeing articles reminds me of a few tidbits that have stuck with me since school (and may have been proven wrong since):
1. Half the time a compound causes cancer in mice, it does not cause cancer in rats (so how do we make a leap to people?);
2. The amount of saccharin that was pumped into test animals to get it to “cause” cancer was the equivalent of drinking 30 cokes a day for a month.
3. Commonly utilized foods have more cancer causing compounds than foods that are being pulled from shelves…mustard was the example I remember.
BBQ’d meat is pretty bad, but taste so good!
http://time.com/4104600/grilled-meat-barbecue-mutagens-cancer/
“BBQ’d meat is pretty bad, but taste so good!”
I don’t love salad but I tolerate it, because salad means beef is on it’s way.
“30 cokes a day”
Reminds me of a place I worked that used thorium. We got a radiation safety expert in to coach us. The maintenance foreman asked him if it was really bad to have some of this stuff in your office. He replied that it would only be really bad if you had 10 lb of the stuff under your desk for a year.
My friend fell off his chair.
“I’m guessing that if you ate Nutella in the amounts necessary for the risk to be non trivial, you would probably die of a heart attack first.”
You are 100% correct!
Nutella should be consumed at every opportunity.
(Not by me because I don’t like the look or the smell of the stuff)
Looks like an Alt Left attack on palm oil.
Alleged cancer-causing aside, palm oil has a deeply embroiled history that has contributed to deforestation, species extinction, human rights violations, and high greenhouse gas emissions.
darn alt-left, trying to save the planet for future generations.
we need more frackers!
Calm down and eat some Nutella.
Hell, spread it on a burger that was deep fried in Palm oil.
Maybe send that CNN reporter out for some Cheetos.
darn alt-left, trying to save the planet for future generations.
Really? Have they stopped buying their stuff from places that don’t care about the planet? The same “greenies” who put in all the regulations in the US to save the planet seem perfectly happy buying cheap stuff from places that don’t have the regulations, right? Maybe they should quit buying that stuff?
Tell me the truth, New Attitude. You totally care about workers and how they’re treated right? Do you own an iphone?
Forget palm oil - how about all the SUGAR in that stuff?
Ever try hamburgers deep fried in Palm oil? They’re so good you’ll pass out. We do them every weekend in cold weather.
I like mine with lettuce and tomato
Deep fried in Palm oil and french fried potatoes
Big kosher pickle and a cold draught beer
Well, good god Almighty which way do I steer
“Ingredient in Nutella…”
Palm Oil is worse than terrible for your arteries. It is used in many nut and peanut butter spreads in order to make it soft, easily spreadable. We stopped buying Nutella when they started using Palm Oil.
Did your Bitcoin get schlonged?
Why China’s central bank fears bitcoin
Daniel Roberts
Yahoo Finance
January 12, 2017
It was only one week ago that the price of the digital currency bitcoin hit a new all-time high of $1,130. Now the price has fallen precipitously, and was hovering around $800 on Thursday afternoon.
The reason is China.
…
CRRRRRRRRRRRRRRATERRRRRRRRRRR
fear…
article today - Here’s Why 2017 Could Be The Best Year In Wall Street History at Forbes
Globalism: What They’re NOT Telling You
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG-JtVoCTdSB6Wbre7W_mFQ
Bah
not as cute as pjw