January 21, 2017

Life In The Days Of The Politically Popular Bubble

A weekend topic starting with D Magazine. “Dallas certainly has its own, particular financial problems: a police and fire pension fund that is facing insolvency, the legacy of a bungled affordable housing policity that lost millions of federal dollars in the couch cushions. But the city’s huge infrastructure needs, which, as council member Lee Kleinman pointed out during a recent conversation about the upcoming bond election, are something that the city can’t cover in its general fund, aren’t unique to Dallas. Faced with having to shell out billions just to keep the streets from not deteriorating any further, Dallas can’t pay for its own maintenance and has to go into debt just keep infrastructure status quo.”

“And so does the rest of America. In a fascinating article on Strong Towns, Charles Marohn, the group’s founder and president, takes an in-depth look into the financial sustainability of Lafayette, Louisiana. What he finds is a fundamentally unsustainable financial outlook and a pattern of growth and deterioration that is repeated in almost every American town and city.”

“What they found was not encouraging. In order get tax revenues to sustain the city’s infrastructure needs, an individual property owner in Lafayette would have to pay more than double in property taxes than what they currently pay. And that’s just for infrastructure. Factor in the other things that property taxes pay for –water, sewer, public buildings, etc. — and the total infrastructure revenue gap per taxpayer for Lafayette was around $8,000 per year. That’s in Lafayette, a small city with a median household income of $41,000.”

“So what’s wrong? Well, pretty much everything about the way America has built its towns and cities since World War II: ‘All of the programs and incentives put in place by the federal and state governments to induce higher levels of growth by building more infrastructure has made the city of Lafayette functionally insolvent. Lafayette has collectively made more promises than it can keep and it’s not even close. If they operated on accrual accounting — where you account for your long-term liabilities — instead of a cash basis — where you don’t — they would have been bankrupt decades ago. This is a pattern we see in every city we’ve examined. It is a byproduct of the American pattern of development we adopted everywhere after World War II.’”

“How did this happen? Were mayors and city managers asleep at the wheel? Is there a giant corporate conspiracy to drain tax dollars and line private pockets? Not really. Marohn argues that, essentially, human nature happened. Faced with new technologies, new financial tools, and new ideas about how cities should look and function, governments have funded an urban development system that is fundamentally unsustainable because it allowed policy makers to kick the costs of their investments down the road and out of view: ‘The way this happened is pretty simple. At Strong Towns, we call it the Growth Ponzi Scheme. Through a combination of federal incentives, state programs and private capital, cities were able to rapidly grow by expanding horizontally. This provided the local government with the immediate revenues that come from new growth — permit fees, utility fees, property tax increases, sales tax — and, in exchange, the city takes on the long term responsibility of servicing and maintaining all the new infrastructure. The money comes in handy in the present while the future obligation is, well….a long time in the future.’”

“Psychologists call this temporal discounting. Humans are predisposed to highly value pleasure today and to deeply discount future pain, especially the more distant it is. It’s easy today to rationalize that future expense, especially when you feel so assured that new growth will make those future people better off. This thinking is how you end up with two dollars of public infrastructure for every one dollar of private investment. This is how you spend yourself into bankruptcy.”

The Detroit Free Press. “The very first executive action by the new Trump administration wasn’t a sweeping order on immigration, trade or health care — but rather to block an Obama administration that would have reduced the cost of mortgages for millions of home buyers. In the first hour of Trump’s presidency, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development sent a letter to lenders, real estate brokers and closing agents suspending the 0.25 percentage point premium rate cut for Federal Housing Administration-backed loans.”

“The change in mortgage premiums took Democrats and consumer groups by surprise. ‘I think we were surprised by how quickly this was something that they wanted to look at,’ said Sarah Wolff of the Center for Responsible Lending. ‘I think it unfortunately signals that they don’t place as great an emphasis as we would hope on access and affordability of mortgage credit.’”

“Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said Friday that Trump’s words in his inaugural speech ‘ring hollow’ following the mortgage premium action. ‘In one of his first acts as president, President Trump made it harder for Americans to afford a mortgage,’ he said. ‘What a terrible thing to do to homeowners. … Actions speak louder than words.’”

From The Missoulian. “The housing bubble had fans across the political spectrum. The Great Recession, well, not so much, but the bubble that floated us into recession was another story.”

“It was, after all, a housing bubble, in which the finance industry threw mountains of money at getting houses built. So, many a news story covered the Montana construction industry’s boom while the bubble was in bloom. For many Montanans, this meant jobs, and I have little doubt that a search of news stories of the day would find politicians’ boasts of the jobs, and of course the economic growth they’d somehow made possible.”

“Some saw it coming. As early as 2001, The Economist ran an article about two biggies behind the lending boom of the day – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In its 2001 article, ‘Big Scary Monsters,’ The Economist warned that, ‘Indeed, there may right now be the makings of a bubble in house prices,’ and that it just might be a dangerous enough bubble to set a basis for the world’s next financial crisis.”

“For many Montanans, life in the days of the politically popular bubble had an appearance of community stability. It was, to be sure, a jobs-machine for the closely linked logging and construction industries alike. No politician dared say a word of warning about it.”

“Then the predicted financial crises swiftly wiped out jobs that the bubble had been supporting, and, in cruel irony, the bubble that floated us into the Great Recession wasn’t kind to loggers. According a report from a team led by Charles Keegan, University of Montana Bureau of Business and Economic Research, 71,000 logging-related jobs went to the chopping block and ‘virtually every major western mill suffered curtailments and 30 large mills closed permanently.’”

“Where’s the community stability in that?”




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289 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2017-01-21 09:08:08

‘the Center for Responsible Lending’

They never learn:

‘I think it unfortunately signals that they don’t place as great an emphasis as we would hope on access and affordability of mortgage credit.’

Comment by Blue Skye
2017-01-21 11:35:39

Charles Schumer has never done an honest day’s work in his entire life. He does not understand the value of a dollar. Government subsidized debt results in more debt, higher prices and more taxes, which leads to poverty.

Comment by rms
2017-01-21 12:11:58

Pol Pot could have schooled Schumer.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2017-01-21 12:45:43

Where did the crazy idea that every American household has to live in owner-occupied housing originate, and how come the folly of this belief is so persistent in the minds of DC politicians?

Does it have something to do with Democrat votes?

Comment by oxide
2017-01-21 18:40:48

No, just outdated statistics and correlation being mistaken for causality. Somebody looked at the numbers and saw that households which had bought homes built more wealth than renters. They mistakenly thought that the house itself created wealth, when in reality, it was the household’s solid finances (jobs, education, etc) which created the wealth. if the finances weren’t solid, then the household would not have been able to afford the house purchase.

Later on, the house did create some wealth if the owners aged in place and didn’t pay rent, or especially if the kids inherited the house and lived in it rent free.

Of course, take away the solid finances and none of this happens.

Comment by redmondjp
2017-01-21 23:00:33

Yup. You go out to hicksville and show me a ramshackle dump with blue tarps over the roof, several satellite TV dishes on the side, and a 7MPG jacked-up pickup truck with $4K worth of tires/rims on it parked in front, and I’ll show you somebody with bad financial management skills.

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Comment by Jingle Male
2017-01-22 06:30:49

There are many reasons to encourage and support homeownership. One reason politicians do is because homeowners vote in much higher ratios than non-homeowers. Supporting housing gets votes.

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2017-01-21 09:09:45

More from the Detroit FP article:

‘The timing of the Trump administration action was dictated more by the procedural requirements that govern such changes, said David Stevens, a former Federal Housing Commissioner in the Obama administration.’

“I they stop a fee that hasn’t been implemented, then it’s no-harm, no-foul,” said Stevens, who now heads the Mortgage Banker’s Association. “Today was really the last day to do it in order not to disrupt a whole lot of mortgage closings.”

‘Without any action, the new rates would have gone into effect Jan. 27.’

“The Trump team coming into office, they haven’t had their own chance to look at the state of the reserves, the strength of the fund and make their own analysis,” he said. “My view of this is that it is not ideological whatsoever. It is a technical decision.”

Comment by TheCentralScrutinizer
2017-01-21 21:14:13

Looks promising…

Comment by Jingle Male
2017-01-22 06:36:16

I think the fee was created during the Democratic controlled congress to help pay for other programs like healthcare. When I bought my house in 2010 the fee had just doubled.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2017-01-22 16:27:42

No, the fee doubled because the FHA insurance fund was well on its way to insolvency due to losses from Bubble 1.0.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2017-01-21 09:14:22

The last paragraph from the Missoulian editorial:

‘Bankers still bear the brunt of blame, and few would argue with the description of mad lending that led to such a bad ending. But the bankers’ lending spree could never have done it alone, and I’ve sometimes wondered if maybe we should be talking about mad building and mad logging too.’

Or refinancing, loan origination, appraisals, greedy city/county government types. Road builders, cement companies, jeebus the list is endless. Oh, let’s not forget Mr and Mrs Sixpack, who are planning on banking their retirement on their shack and unfunded infrastructure.

Comment by Blue Skye
2017-01-21 09:23:58

“Psychologists call this temporal discounting. Humans are predisposed to highly value pleasure today and to deeply discount future pain, especially the more distant it is.”

Exactly describes the mindset of the mortgaged house buyer.

Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 10:13:31

“Exactly describes the mindset of the mortgaged house buyer.”

…or a climate change denier.

Comment by TheCentralScrutinizer
2017-01-21 21:15:15

Zing!

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Comment by redmondjp
2017-01-21 23:02:46

I went to the Burke Museum of natural history at the University of Washington today, and you know what I learned?

That the earth’s climate has been changing for millions of years, all without any influence from mankind.

It’s terribly egocentric of a man to think that he is responsible this time.

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Comment by SV guy
2017-01-21 10:25:30

Ben,

I am intimately familiar with that part of Montana. Blaming the mill closures on the housing bubble is a stretch. EVERY timber auction of National or State forest land is ultimately blocked/delayed by the gaggle of eco-freaks that feed their faces through litigation. It is so ridiculous that these people will sue to block the harvest of burned standing timber. Mills need a consistent & reliable source of timber to stay in business. Without this the business model doesn’t work. Then you have Plum Creek (subsequently bought by Weyerhaeuser) becoming a REIT and suddenly logging isn’t quite as important. I have sections of land directly adjacent to me that are now NF that were previously PC land. Missoula is “Berkeley of the Rockies” mostly due to the extremely left leaning university.

The Flathead area (Kalispell) is experiencing a very good amount of organic growth. This is where I spend the bulk of my $$.

 
 
Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 09:22:14

“Psychologists call this temporal discounting. Humans are predisposed to highly value pleasure today and to deeply discount future pain, especially the more distant it is. It’s easy today to rationalize that future expense, especially when you feel so assured that new growth will make those future people better off.”

A solid article, Ben. Thanks for the post. I’ve not heard of Strong Towns before.

That said, “temporal discounting” is a pantload of b.s. Greed and hedonism is the cause, and the government and Federal Reserve encouraged those baser instincts.

Turn off the tap and the free money, and you’ll see greed and hedonism diminish. They must as there’ll be less to feed them.

Comment by Ben Jones
2017-01-21 09:44:28

‘Turn off the tap and the free money’

But nobody wants to do that. And if you even slightly suggest it, you’ll be pounced upon as “hurting homeowners”. Yet watch the posters here revel in how shacks have made them rich, rich, RICH! Never mind that the money has to come from some family paying half their income in rent or taking on a 30 year government backed mortgage.

We do this with everything. Look at social security. Look at infrastructure. The last time I was in Dallas they were building like there’s no tomorrow. They are insolvent in the midst of the greatest expansion in the areas history! But if you question it, you are a doom and gloomer. That’s a big part of the problem. Bubbles are politically popular, realism isn’t.

Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 10:03:25

Realism isn’t popular because realism hurts fragile egos.

Realism also requires actual work and discipline, which today’s populace cannot be bothered with.

As you know, I’m often focused on the geographic spread of money. Not who has it, but where it is. Then I mind the societal and voting behavior of people geographically.

It is extremely telling.

Note that I said “money” and not “wealth”. Vastly different things.

I do have a question for you Ben, as you’re a Texan. Do what do you attribute the new-found love of greater Dallas to?

Sometimes I think that Dallas is a bit of an unwitting pigeon in all that is happening there, but I could be quite wrong.

Is Dallas being destroyed fiscally, culturally and socially by outsiders?

Comment by Ben Jones
2017-01-21 10:23:47

As I’ve mentioned here before, I visited a couple on the outskirts of Dallas in the summer of 2014. They had a house in Plano which they sold (for a mighty profit) largely because of crime. The two commute one hour and one and a half each way. In a rational world, increased policing would have been logical. But the system doesn’t work that way. And lo and behold the house they bought in 2012 for $225,000 had a house exactly like it a block away close for $350,000 - two years after their purchase! 350k just so happens to be the government loan limit for the area.

Isn’t it interesting that house prices in say Flagstaff, run right up to the loan cap, just as they did in Phoenix, which has a loan cap $100,000 lower? Lots more jobs in Phoenix, but no matter.

And this plays out on a larger scale too. From a post the other day:

‘With little new construction underway and fewer chances to buy, former residents of California are gobbling up properties elsewhere. Seventy percent of home sales in Austin, Texas, 40 percent in Raleigh, N.C., and 30 percent in Portland are completed by folks from, guess where — sunny California.’

http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/?p=9967

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Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 10:40:48

Thanks for the response.

So, it’s as I suspected. Equity locusts and sh*ts on the take with the blessing of the feds. Nice.

I guess that’s one way to destroy a country - and without military force. Spend it into oblivion and allow venal “Californication” to infest all areas of life nationwide.

How sick.

Domestic Imperialism indeed. Trump seems to recognize it, too, at least from afar. His first action yesterday was interesting and ideally, a bellwether.

 
Comment by oxide
2017-01-21 12:31:58

Isn’t it interesting that house prices in say Flagstaff, run right up to the loan cap, just as they did in Phoenix

An FHA mortgage has two fees: FHA PMI and FHA fees. When the mortgage lender was processing the paperwork for my purchase, they ran the FHA numbers vs. a 10% down conventional mortgage. The total monthly nut for the FHA mortgage was much higher than 10% down. We also ran numbers if I paid enough extra principle to get to 20% equity and discontinue FHA PMI at 5 years (the earliest allowed). It was still overall more expensive. And even when you get rid of PMI, you still pay the FHA fee for the life of the loan. I happily put 10% down.

These buyers are paying dearly for putting only 3.5% down.

 
Comment by The Enrager
2017-01-21 15:27:47

Add it the sketchy appraisals and you’ve got yourself a housing bubble.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2017-01-21 20:59:09

Isn’t it interesting that house prices in say Flagstaff, run right up to the loan cap, just as they did in Phoenix

Reminds me of my 4th grade square dance/box social (everybody had one in Wyoming in the 70s…not sure why). We were given $50 in fake money to bid on boxes at auction. Problem is the money was worthless for anything else. So basically we just shouted “50!” as our first bid as each box came up. Teachers were expecting us to start low and slowly bid each other up. But why would we?

 
Comment by Jingle Male
2017-01-22 06:54:12

“…An FHA mortgage has two fees: FHA PMI and FHA fees.”

The fees doubled under the Democrats to create solvency after the bubble. It also partly paid for other programs. That is probably why they were lowering it, now that the crises is abated.

 
 
Comment by whirlyite
2017-01-21 11:40:27

“Is Dallas being destroyed fiscally, culturally and socially by outsiders?”

You could ask the same question about the nation’s soon to be third largest city, 250+ miles south down I-45.

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Comment by Karen
2017-01-21 11:51:22

Most of the net migration to Texas is due to immigration. Almost as many Americans are moving out as are moving in. I often feel like a minority whenever I go shopping. Tons of Spanish-speaking people, Indians, and Chinese.

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Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 11:58:35

Sad to hear it.

I’d be a Texan myself if it weren’t for the punishing climate.

I assume Dallas is a sanctuary city?

 
Comment by Karen
2017-01-21 12:13:36

I have no idea. A lot of the immigrants living here are probably legal. Lots of Cubans and Puerto Ricans, lots of Asians who work in medicine and technology. Of course, we have plenty of border-crossers too.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by MightyMike
2017-01-21 09:28:51

These derelict bathrooms are inside homes sold for $1 million-plus

JANUARY 20, 2017 9:33 AM

THEY’RE the homes that will make you wish you were someplace else when nature calls.

A throng of Sydney homes have sold for bumper prices over the course of the recent housing boom, despite bathrooms that would make even prison facilities seem like a luxury.

It’s a remarkable feat considering real estate trends show bathrooms, along with kitchens, top property buyers’ priorities when looking for new homes.

One of the higher prices paid was for a two-bedroom, two-bathroom terrace on Hargrave St in Darlinghurst.

The property sold for $1.75 million with a rundown, but intact, first bathroom and a grim, rust-coloured second bathroom.

In nearby Surry Hills, a dilapidated terrace on Kippax St offered buyers only an exterior bathroom and sold for $1.1 million in early 2016. The home sold with a bathtub clogged full of leaves and rainwater, while the toilet was coated in grime.

A Paddington home sold in October for $1.19 million had a similar problem — there was only an exterior bathroom but it was missing a roof.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/these-derelict-bathrooms-are-inside-homes-sold-for-1-millionplus/news-story/7e0454cfa8afdb14075195166be6dc5c

Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 09:55:16

The ego-driven need to look prettier and have more than the next guy is a shameful thing.

Maybe if people didn’t give a damn about posturing and social standing, perhaps products as such as buildings would be built better.

But, alas, many people believe well-built products (and those that build them) are somehow beneath them.

A classic case of you reap what you sow.

In Texas, they call it big hat, no cattle. Who knows what they call it in coastal USA. “Typical”, maybe?

 
Comment by oxide
2017-01-21 12:41:45

“Exterior bathroom”

The US has had interior baths for about a hundred years now, and as far as I know, NOBODY in the US even thought of putting flush bathrooms out in the yard. You pogressed straight from outhouse to indoor bath. WTF is wrong with Australia? Is there some regulation where blackwater can only be hooked up a certain distance from the main house?

I recall seeing a pic of one of those Aussie exterior baths on HBB years ago. You had to go out through an overgrown yard to get to what was essentially a flush outhouse. All I could think of were all the poisonous creepy crawlies — entire TV shows’ worth — that Aus is famous for.

 
 
Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 09:35:26

From yesterday:

Comment by NYchk
2017-01-20 12:04:09
I don’t get all this hoopla about factories.
What kind of a loser one must be, to want a job in a FACTORY, this day and age?
(And even if you want it, aren’t you afraid you’ll be replaced by robots anyway?)

Aren’t you the little missy? Not surprising, given that you’re in New York. A fine example of a coastal elitist.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps someone WANTS to work in a factory? I have friends who have college degrees (various fields) who work in factories and they love their jobs.

It’s understandable. Producing a valuable product is often a more satisfying outcome than sacrificing one’s dignity whilst suing the pants off someone, throwing millions out of work with your technological wizardry, or schlepping off the taxpayers.

Appears to me that you’ve never once considered such a thing.

There’s dignity in factory work.

That you don’t understand why someone might WANT to work in a factory is your shortcoming, not theirs.

Comment by phony scandals
2017-01-21 09:51:36

Speaking of New York if you’re there don’t fall asleep on the subway.

CBS2 Exclusive: Teen Sets Man Sleeping On Subway Ablaze, Looks On Laughing

January 20, 2017 11:34 PM

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — A Brooklyn man fell asleep on the subway, only to wake up engulfed in flames, and police say it was no accident.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/01/20/sleeping-subway-fire/

 
Comment by rms
2017-01-21 10:11:08

A friend’s father was a mindless, repetitive, drill press operator for thirty-years… and he died less than two years after retiring. Reminded me of that Star Trek episode where they visit a planet that hadn’t any sign of progress or development in 10,000-yrs according to Spock’s tricorder, IIRC.

Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 10:25:49

I’ve witnessed a great deal of mindlessness across a broad range of fields.

That includes IT, engineering, business, law, education.

Many, many people in those fields do close to nothing all day.

Many spend hours upon hours posting on internet blogs rather than do something constructive.

There’s more dignity in being a mindless drill press operator than a mindless IT hack.

Comment by rms
2017-01-21 12:16:58

“…mindless drill press operator…”

I’m glad he was available because I require more stimulation.

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Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 12:38:38

Stimulation as in what? Blogs and websites that allow you to fritter away the hours when you should be producing something instead?

If so, your job should be eliminated. It clearly isn’t needed.

The cost of your overhead could be better used elsewhere. Give raises to those who do produce.

 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2017-01-21 15:08:41

“There’s more dignity in being a mindless drill press operator than a mindless IT hack.”

How so?

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Comment by MWR
2017-01-21 17:23:54

I have a friend with an MBA who worked in Marketing and fixed cars on the side.

He said he loved the feel of getting the engine going again. It was a feeling of accomplishment. In marketing it was just an other Power Point that no one really cares about because they had already made up their mind before seeing the power point.
Put another way, you have a tangible effect with a car, a marketing presentation, not so much. Note he was in marketing NOT sales.

 
 
Comment by Jessica
2017-01-21 22:13:20

That’s a very broad insult across many professions. Care to be more specific?

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Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 10:24:33

@MacBeth - “There’s dignity in factory work.

That you don’t understand why someone might WANT to work in a factory is your shortcoming, not theirs.”

There’s no dignity in clinging to the past and refusing to better oneself.

There was dignity in “horse carriage operator” work, (and I LOVE horses), but, this day and age, wouldn’t you call “losers” those who ask to replace cars with horses, because they can’t drive?

Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 10:30:43

No, I wouldn’t.

I don’t consider the Amish to be losers. I find most Amish to be more admirable than most people who are not Amish.

I take it that you find the Amish beneath you, despite their chosen reliance upon horses and buggies?

Chew on that one for a while.

Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 11:00:00

Wrong. Amish do not strive to forcefully change the rest of modern society into its medieval counterpart.

They are self-reliant and they are not whining about “lets prohibit cars in order to protect the horses”.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2017-01-21 11:25:34

‘not whining about “lets prohibit cars in order to protect the horses”

Well here’s where centrally planned economies go. Why not just let market forces determine this? Let me back up and point out some problems.

When I studied RE finance, there were formulas. Build or lease? Buy or lease, etc. The key to all of these was the price of money. The opportunity cost. Can anyone doubt the cost of money is artificially low? And more, QE adds to this situation exponentially. Combined these critical distortions have altered our markets to the point of insanity.

So would there be Amazon delivery on such a scale if the opportunity cost of money was normal? We don’t know! But look at what’s happening to brick and mortar infrastructure. In the age of trillions of freshly created pesos, I see a problem of “disrupters” suddenly finding paradise in driving a taxi for minimum wage or less. Entire apartment floors turned into bed and breakfasts arrangements. Money losing grilled cheese truck IPO’s raising $100 million. Would this be occurring if the price of money was normal? We don’t know. And there’s only one way to find out: normalize the price of money through market functions.

There’s a simple example in how kooky this can get: last July a 30 year German bond was barely yielding a positive return. Someone pointed out that if interest rates went up 1%, 50% of the principle would be eliminated. Think about that: for the measly return of less than .5%, people spent billions with the risk I described. What happened? Six months later and rates went up more than 1%. These “investors” have been almost wiped out. And these bonds were supposedly risk free! Is it any wonder we’ve seen safe deposit boxes in the sky lose half? I’m suggesting that if these market distortions hadn’t existed, these $20-100 million air boxes would never have been constructed, much less sold.

 
Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 11:52:41

Wrong. Amish do not strive to forcefully change the rest of modern society into its medieval counterpart.”

What an odd thing to say.

Who’s trying to force modern society into its medieval counterpart? Islamists, yes. We all know that’s a given. But who else?

People who work in factories?

I hope you don’t treat those who clean up after you and your horse with such derision.

Better keep that boot down on those whom you elitists say are maligned and maltreated, otherwise they may tell you to do the filthy work yourself.

I do have a question. What kind of work and what kind of chores do you consider NOT beneath you? You know, where do you draw the lines? I’d appreciate a list of occupations and daily chores.

 
Comment by Karen
2017-01-21 12:09:09

Wrong. Amish do not strive to forcefully change the rest of modern society into its medieval counterpart.

They are self-reliant and they are not whining about “lets prohibit cars in order to protect the horses”.

Who and what are you arguing against? No one is attempting to do what you are suggesting. Your mind is a hot mess. And you laughingly consider yourself educated.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 15:57:16

@Karen - I’m pointing out the naiveté of those who bought into a billionaire snake oil salesman’s spiel about “bringing back obsolete factories, to help a little guy”, while stuffing his cabinet with CEOs, billionaires and Goldman Sachs bankers.

 
Comment by Karen
2017-01-21 17:26:54

In other words, just your made up narrative, fed to you by the msm.

I have news for you. Factories are not obsolete. Do you think unicorns make all the stuff you use every day?

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 18:00:03

@Karen - I have news for you. “MSM” is a troll word.

Only right wing nuts and state-sponsored Putin trolls keep trashing “evil liberal MSM” and exalting the virtues of alt-post-fact-propaganda outlets.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 18:07:42

what do you have against us ‘right wing nuts’?

isn’t the MSM bias obvious to you?

 
Comment by Karen
2017-01-21 18:16:21

I think you are on the wrong blog. You seem to have gotten lost.

 
Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2017-01-21 18:40:22

Only right wing nuts and state-sponsored Putin trolls keep trashing “evil liberal MSM” and exalting the virtues of alt-post-fact-propaganda outlets.

Maybe you need to go back to watching cat videos.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 18:41:13

@ Karen - Perhaps I was longer on this blog than you were, LOL.

@ tj - “what do you have against us ‘right wing nuts’?”

I’m actually fairly conservative myself, and tended to vote Republican. So, nothing against you.

However, I don’t like religious nuts who insist on forcing others to follow their religious beliefs, and I don’t like far-right descent into fascism even more (just as I don’t like far-left descent into socialism and communism). I don’t like extremes and radicalism, and I don’t trust populist politicians.

“isn’t the MSM bias obvious to you?”

Isn’t alt-fake-news bias even more obvious?

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 19:01:30

However, I don’t like religious nuts who insist on forcing others to follow their religious beliefs

nobody likes being pressured. most christians that i know aren’t like that.

I don’t like far-right descent into fascism even more (just as I don’t like far-left descent into socialism and communism).

again with the fascism. we’ve been over and over that on this blog before you got here. fascism is leftist. authoritarian. statist.

fascism being right wing is a myth promulgated by the socialists/communists to discredit the right.

being on the ‘right’ has to do with freedom. go look at a few political spectrum graphs on the internet to see.

Isn’t alt-fake-news bias even more obvious?

‘alt right’, the new pseudo-buzzword that the left came up with that no one seems to be able to define.

i guess next will be gender pronouns.

 
Comment by oxide
2017-01-21 19:08:41

Be nice. There’s room for everyone on the blog until the owner says otherwise. So far nychik is just expressing the usual lib ideals. And at least she’s using her own words instead of endless cut and paste.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2017-01-21 19:50:11

Market forces explain why Trump’s factory worker voters lost their jobs. it wasn’t Obama who did it. The trend dates back to shortly after WWII ended. It’s often cheaper to substitute modern technology for human hands.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 19:56:41

@tj - “again with the fascism. we’ve been over and over that on this blog before you got here. fascism is leftist. authoritarian. statist.”

Actually, the word “fascism” comes from the right-wing dictatorship which took over Italy (in times of Mussolini).

Fascism is far right, communism is far left, both start as authoritarian, and both end up as totalitarian political systems. There are a lot of similaries, along with some crucial differences.

Fascism (far right) - extreme ulta-nationalist, discriminates versus “other’ (race, ethnicities, religions, political beliefs).

vs. Communism (far left) - extreme pro-”working class” and anti-nationalist, discriminates versus “other” (social classes, religions, political beliefs).

Fascism - the merger of big business and military-industrial complex with authoritarian (and later totalitarian) form of government. Manifests in oppression of opposition, dismantling of free press and creation of approved state-sponsored propaganda, build-up of the military, targeting “other” (enemies internal and domestic), and exalting the Great Leader.

Totalitarian communism - very close to fascism, except its main enemies are not other nations but rather other social classes, and it’s “business” and natural resources are owned not by capitalists, but by a bureaucratic nomenclature. Other than those two points, it’s very similar to fascism - oppression of opposition, dismantling of free press and creation of approved state-sponsored propaganda, build-up of the military, targeting “other” (enemies internal and domestic), and exalting the Great Leader.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 20:32:26

Here’s 14 features of “fascism” per Umberto Echo (a famous Italian writer); and he knew what he was talking about, as Italy was the birth place of the word “fascismo”, the ideology behind Mussolini’s right-wing dictatorship.

So, “fascism” per Umberto Echo is characterized by:

1) The cult of tradition.
2) The rejection of modernism.
3) The cult of action for actions sake (along with hatred or distrust of “intellectuals”).
4) Disagreement is treason.
5) Fear of difference (racist, bigoted).
6) Appeal to social frustration. (Putin - “Russia is getting up from its knees, after humiliating defeat in the Cold War”; Hilter - “Germany über alles”, Germany above all else in the world; Trump - “America first, after American carnage”.)
7) The obsession with a plot. (“The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia.”)
8) The enemy is both strong and weak.
9) Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. (Translates into an extreme build up of military.)
10) Contempt for the weak. (Thus, no social spending on the weak. At the extreme - lets kill invalids and sick.)
11) Everybody is educated to become a hero. (“This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”)
12) Machismo and weaponry. (“Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”)
13) Selective populism. (“There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”)
14) Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. (“All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”)

Fascism always leads to authoritarianism. It’s its natural supportive habitat.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2017-01-21 20:35:01

NYchk dont forget about MILO and the anti free speech movement, censorship in america

University of Washington President Changes Story, Admits MILO Protests Were Violent

http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2017/01/21/university-washington-president-admits-milo-protests-violent/

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 20:52:53

@aNYCdj - I’m more concerned about the post-fact world, where (fact-checking, striving to be objective) journalism is stigmatized and vilified, while “alternative” propaganda outlets are state-sponsored and promoted.

 
Comment by butters
2017-01-21 20:53:00

She just cut and paste. :)

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 21:03:22

@butters - you can’t read long words, can you. LOL.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 21:19:28

Actually, the word “fascism” comes from the right-wing dictatorship which took over Italy (in times of Mussolini).

i know the etymology of the word. it comes from ‘fasci’ which just meant ‘groups of men organized for political purposes’. that leaves a lot of openings doesn’t it? take your pick of just about anything.

being anti-communist doesn’t put you on the right. musolini’s only gripe with communism was that it wasn’t nationalistic. the same with hitler. they’re both authoritarian. hitler was a self avowed socialist. yes, fascism is to the right of communism. but so is everything else. on the political spectrum with communism/left being zero and right/conservative/freedom being 10, i’d give fascism about a 3.

try taking this political spectrum quiz as a fascist and see where you fall.

http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/political-spectrum-quiz.html

i guarantee you it will be on the left if you answer honestly as a fascist.

i scored all the way to the right with a 9.27 and about 3/4 the way down from the top with a 5.42 libertarian. according to you, that would make me a fascist.

but right wing obviously doesn’t mean what you think it means. right wing is about small constitutional government and protected freedom and rights. and that’s why i’m all the way to the right. not because i’m a fascist.

(yes i know you didn’t actually call me a fascist)

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 21:59:34

@tj - I’m not calling the right “fascist”. In fact “the right” are not fascist - but the far-right authoritarians are!

I took your quiz - it’s eerie, I ended up in dead center, almost. Seroiusly, there was a little x sign smack in the middle, between “left” and “right’ (a tad closer to the left) and between “authoritarian” and “libertarian” (a tad closer to libertarian).

“You are a centrist social moderate.
Left: 0.51, Libertarian: 0.28″ :-)

So, there. “Left and libertarian”, LOL.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-22 06:46:35

but the far-right authoritarians are!

‘right’ and ‘authoritarian’ don’t belong together.

I took your quiz

thank you for taking the time.

it’s eerie, I ended up in dead center, almost.”

obviously not where you expected to be. do you mind telling us where you expected to fall?

So, there. “Left and libertarian”

you are the very definition of a ‘centrist’.

left and libertarian aren’t opposites. you could be a libertarian who doesn’t believe in free markets.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-22 09:47:37

“‘right’ and ‘authoritarian’ don’t belong together.”

Sure they do. Mussolini, Hitler, Putin - right wing authoritarians.

As for me, the surprise wasn’t that I’m a centrist, but what a “perfect” centrist I am. Almost right in the middle. Actually, calling it a “center” is misleading - because it’s not like my views are neutral; some of my views are leaning very left, and some are leaning very right.

They should come up with a three-dimensional model for people such as myself, LOL.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-23 06:09:20

Sure they do. Mussolini, Hitler, Putin - right wing authoritarians.

false and you’re not saying anything new to further your argument. just repetition.

you seem to know that if a fascist took the spectrum quiz, he’d land in the upper left quadrant. authoritarian and leftist.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-24 13:13:30

No, if a fascist took the spectrum quiz, he’d land in the upper right quadrant - authoritarian and right.

Putin, Hitler, Mussolini - right wing politicians.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-24 14:18:21

would a fascist agree or disagree?

1. the state should set prices.

2. state power should be unlimited in the economy.

if you agree with either of those statements, you’re on the controlling left and consistent with the fascist camp.

if you disagree, then please tell me some standard economic principles of fascism.

you do know that the vertical scale relates to personal freedom and the horizontal scale (right/left) relates to economic freedom.

i’m purposely not asking questions on fascism’s politics of personal liberty because we both agree that fascism is authoritarian.

saying that mussolini and hitler were on the right is misinformation promulgated by socialists/communists to discredit free markets.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-24 15:01:31
 
 
 
Comment by SV guy
2017-01-21 10:33:01

Without a manufacturing base you have nothing but a hollowed out husk of a nation.

This elitist mindset of honest work being “beneath them” is laughable. Most of these “Intellectual idiots” would crumble in honest labor.

Enjoy the “skim” while you can.

Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 11:04:35

The U.S.S. Titanic is starting to sink and they’re not too happy about it.

Had they been reading this blog, they would have noticed someone advising them to have their escape routes at the ready.

The Federal Government does not produce wealth. To maintain its size, it must siphon wealth. To grow, it must steal even more.

Trump, being the businessman that he is, has long spotted the obvious and plans to slow the bleeding.

May he be successful, and may dozens of thousands of federal government workers find themselves working in factories in the years to come.

Maybe Trump could help them find jobs shoveling hot tar for private road construction companies. You know, rebuild the infrastructure and such.

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Comment by MightyMike
2017-01-21 11:12:24

Trump, being the businessman that he is, has long spotted the obvious and plans to slow the bleeding.

Is there any evidence to support this? Are we talking about reducing the size of the federal government? He said that there will be no cuts to Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid and he may want increase spending on the armed forces.

 
Comment by oxide
2017-01-21 12:55:48

I think the plan is to raise revenue. Fewer illegals and imports = more jobs. More jobs = collect more income taxes. More jobs = less spent EBT and welfare.

However, I do fear the Trump will take the privatization path for infrastructure. Private companies would love to repair our major roads… and slap a permanent toll on each one.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 18:11:56

@oxide - “However, I do fear the Trump will take the privatization path for infrastructure.”

Just as he will take a privatization path with education. Spend public money to finance private schools, without public control.

And if we are not careful, he’ll let Paul Ryan take the privatization path for Medicare and Social Security.

 
Comment by The Enrager
2017-01-21 18:22:40

President Trump has a mandate to shut down. Get her done Mr. President. Get her done.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 18:44:18

Yes, he has a mandate from Putin, to shut down America.

 
Comment by Patrick
2017-01-21 18:52:47

Mind blowing.

Private industry increases it’s sales by 100% and reduces its staff by 50% in last ten years.

Population grows by 20% and government increases it’s staff by 50% in last ten years.

(Don’t check these numbers out. I invented them.)

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2017-01-21 19:45:34

I hate to break it to Macbeth, but some government workers will be involved with doling out the tax dollars used to fund Trump’s infrastructure stimulus plan and his military expansion plan.

 
Comment by butters
2017-01-21 20:50:16

e has a mandate from Putin, to shut down America.

You wanna fight putin, go back to russia and fight for youself. Don’t drag this country to your selfish plight. We are still trying to recover from useless wars fought for people like you.

 
 
Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 11:16:34

“Most of these “Intellectual idiots” would crumble in honest labor.”

Ain’t that the truth.

I’d bet fewer than 1% of all elitist horse riders have ever shoed a horse (heck, most probably have never cleaned up after a horse). Yet, I bet 30-40% of all Amish have shoed a horse.

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Comment by Ol'Bubba
2017-01-21 13:13:46

I bet you pulled 100% of those numbers out of your rectum.

 
Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 13:43:22

Dude! Get some Preparation H. I hear it does a world of good for those suffering from butt hurt.

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2017-01-21 10:34:40

The problem here is a conclusion has been made and the argument built to support it. Like I said before this is Krugman talk. “Robots are taking over so we better construct society around Starbucks jobs.” Never mind that if we all work at Starbucks we can’t afford the coffee.

The assembly line was automation. Efficiency creates wealth. Wealth leads to more jobs.

The other day I watched a fascinating video on a fully automated brick making plant. There were guys standing around all along it. Turns out people have to make sure it is working properly. Keep the materials topped off, keep the pallets coming, drive off with the bricks. I’ve listened to some “futurists” make this big leap with automation; their conclusion? A government living wage and nobody has a job any more! Sure, and we’ll all live on the moon and eat the cheese it’s made of.

Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 10:49:23

+1000

Shifting money around doesn’t create wealth. Government doesn’t create wealth. It siphons it. I do not find government admirable.

Lawyers do not create wealth. They siphon it. I do not find lawyers admirable.

Production does create wealth, automated or not. And only does it create wealth, it creates a usable product.

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Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 10:52:47

Perhaps our tax system should be revamped in a way to tax those employed in non-productive fields more heavily than those who actually do produce.

Maybe government employees and lawyers should have personal income tax rates that are 20% higher than everyone else.

Why should they reap equal benefits when they produce no wealth?

Maybe that’s the corollary that should be pursued.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2017-01-21 13:05:31

My wife is an attorney, so therein lies part of my bias. However another part of my bias comes from the fact that a meaningful part of my career revolves around negotiating agreements that allow us to invest capital with folks who are not very far from being strangers.

Litigators are a necessary evil, to resolve dispute…however, I don’t think people have an appropriate appreciation of the hell that is litigation. If more people understood what litigation meant, they would always try to resolve matters outside of court.

Business attorneys are a different matter. They help facilitate business dealings. Without business attorneys a lot of investment would cease…and that isn’t good.

They help spell out clearly rights, responsibilities, profit sharing, alternative resolution matters, no-fault (business) divorce matters, etc. Without those contracts/agreements, those with capital would never invest with strangers–and we would be a country where you only trusted relatives with your money…like a large part of the world (that frankly isn’t a place you would want to emulate, in that regard).

Yes, attorneys are costly, and some of their activities are only a siphon on the economy (the filing of frivolous lawsuits for example), but on the whole, they are pretty important to making the economy function.

 
Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 13:53:22

It could easily be argued that lawyers are important in making the economy NOT function. Attorneys are successful because they complicate matters. The muddier the water, the more money they make. Extend, extend, extend.

Let’s test the idea. Let’s eliminate two-thirds of all regulations on the books, across the economy, by the year 2020. Then not add or change ONE regulation in the ensuing five years. Then, let’s assess how the economy performed and how the law industry performed.

Which is better off after five years?

I’m game. Are you? Is your wife?

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 14:00:00

Let’s eliminate two-thirds of all regulations on the books, across the economy

i can hear the lawyers howling from 30 miles away.

 
Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 14:35:53

As I mentioned elsewhere, perhaps the solution lies in taxing the crap out of the non-productive, including lawyers.

Raise their personal income taxes by 20%. Maybe 50%. Maybe 70%. Every position, across the board. Make the industry non-lucrative to the point where most regulations are ignored because they bear no fruit.

There’s more than one way to skin a cat. I’m open to any and all ideas.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 14:44:07

I’m open to any and all ideas.

i think making losers pay all the court costs would put a huge dent in their abuse.

i don’t think making them pay at a different tax rate than anyone else would be a good idea. but you’re right, lawsuits are damaging to the economy. unfortunately, they’re sometimes really necessary. especially with regards to pollution.

 
Comment by new attitude
2017-01-21 15:17:48

My wife is an attorney

I cant stand attorneys. there are on the cutting edge of the decline of America. Fear of lawsuits makes healthcare crazy expensive. Ask any surgeon.

 
Comment by Jessica
2017-01-21 22:22:24

Lumping all attorneys as evil is not without an evil consequence. Do you know that the suicide rate is higher among attorneys? Depression, anxiety, and substance abuse is higher among attorneys. As my deceased (at 41) attorney boyfriend said “Everyone hates attorneys until they need one”.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2017-01-23 04:06:50

I would love less regulation, as would my attorney wife (ask her what she thinks about Dodd Frank sometime).

But attorneys would still be vital to being able to conduct business with near-strangers, which is critically important to the flow of capital to risky ventures…which is a major benefit in the US.

That said, I totally understand that tax attorneys would hate tax reform, environmental attorneys would hate simplification of the regulatory environment, etc.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2017-01-23 04:08:38

i think making losers pay all the court costs would put a huge dent in their abuse.

+1000

This would solve a lot of CEQA lawsuits in CA for sure.

 
 
Comment by Karen
2017-01-21 12:38:23

As I’ve said, people who believe robots are taking over everything in factories are wrong.

Both from a practical perspective, as well as a financial perspective, it just doesn’t work the way people think. They hear some Ted Talk or read some article, and imagine that in another 10 years no human labor will be needed and there will be mass unemployment. When I was a kid watching the Jetsons I thought that’s how we’d be living by the time I grew up. Push a button, get your dinner dropped down in a chute. Didn’t happen.

There is much that automation cannot do, as you saw in the brick factory. And bricks are simple, compared to many other products!

And then there is the financial issue surrounding automation. People say that whenever it’s cheaper to buy a machine than pay people to do the job, business owners will replace humans with machines. This grossly oversimplifies (and hence distorts) the issue. First, machinery is a huge fixed cost. You can’t fire a robot if you experience a business downturn. You are stuck paying for it. Hey, it’s a lot like having a mortgage tied around your neck! Something HBB folks can relate to. Having employees is more akin to renting. You can re-negotiate or find other options. You have flexibility.

And humans are also more flexible in the labor they can do than machines are. Humans can learn and grow. Machinery quickly becomes outdated, and the more specialized it is, the less you are able to re-purpose it if you find that line of products no longer profitable to produce.

And then there’s the effect of the credit bubble on the willingness and ability of businesses to buy all this expensive machinery.

Ben, you’re exactly right about a conclusion having been made, and an argument having been constructed to support it. I hadn’t thought of it that way. It’s just like the whole millennial-downtown-luxury-apartment-trend narrative that was constructed. What is their agenda? Universal basic income. Why? It’s definitely part of the globalist scheme.

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Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2017-01-21 13:04:09

-> “What is their agenda? Universal basic income.”

Here’s a good one for a laugh — an actual example from Finland. This guy is an “entrepreneur”, father of 6, unemployed for 5 years, living off his wife’s salary.

http://www.businessinsider.com/finnish-guy-gets-basic-income-2017-1

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2017-01-21 15:56:48

“First, machinery is a huge fixed cost.”

Again with the superlatives. What is “huge”? It doesn’t happen overnight. It’s not all or nothing. I responded in the other thread about that sewing system. I’ll admit I don’t remember all the math on that one as my work was with a machine builder supplying to the end-user factory, but I believe that factory had ~50 people doing the work:

50 * $5 min wage * 40 hrs/week * 52 weeks = $520k per year in labor costs.

I’m probably undercutting the wage and this also doesn’t include the cost of benefits etc, so the number might be twice that. I believe the machine they bought was $200-250k, producing more product at a faster rate.

To counteract your concerns of a business downturn they bought one each year for 3-4 years but they’d lay off more people sooner and overwork (2 or 3 shifts instead of 1) the machine. That allowed them to invest in spare components and a few people to maintain the machines. Technology to do the same thing gets less expensive, not more.

I suspect the reason for dismissing this as “Krugman talk” is to oversell the “Carrier effect.” Carrier in Mexico was step one, the “fix it now” solution. Step two would have been to automate there at some point. (See also: las maquiladoras in Mexico) Instead, they’ll pay more in the short term for salary for the good feels, pay less in taxes, then automate anyway.

 
Comment by rms
2017-01-21 16:31:04

This guy is an “entrepreneur”, father of 6, unemployed for 5 years, living off his wife’s salary.

No sense of pride in that mooch.

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2017-01-21 16:33:59

“Technology to do the same thing gets less expensive, not more.”

I should probably qualify that statement. The cost to install and use that product gets less expensive. Physical components that become obsolete or low in supply or are increased in price in order to sell the new version do not.

 
Comment by Karen
2017-01-21 17:46:51

“First, machinery is a huge fixed cost.”

Again with the superlatives.

Oh for god’s sake, on the other thread it was ‘generalities’ you were objecting to, here it’s superlatives. What parts of the English language are acceptable to you?

Fine, take out the word huge. The point still stands.

And obviously, or at least I thought it was obvious, I’m talking about newer technology, which is generally more expensive.

You admit you don’t know *any* of the numbers involved in this project you say you worked on, but that doesn’t stop you from just pulling a bunch of numbers out of your rear end.

This must be some miraculous technology indeed if there were previously 50 people needed to produce this product and now there are none. Not even higher-salaried folks required to maintain the machines? Amazing. Sure beats Ben’s brick factory.

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2017-01-21 19:02:47

Karen,

You leave yourself plenty of weasel room in your language by using generalities and superlatives. And last week the weather guy said we “might” get a “huge” dose of snow.

“You admit you don’t know *any* of the numbers..”

Now you’re lying. I didn’t admit that. I said I don’t remember exact numbers. The numbers were enough to automate, even by me *under* estimating them.

“This must be some miraculous technology indeed if there were previously 50 people needed to produce this product and now there are none.”

Another thing I didn’t say.

“Not even higher-salaried folks required to maintain the machines? Amazing.”

Read, Karen. This is what I said:
“That allowed them to invest in spare components and a few people to maintain the machines.” No miracle required.

 
 
Comment by Rental Watch
2017-01-21 12:55:02

I had a conversation with someone about the automation of cars, and driverless Ubers/Lifts/Goobers/Ford Fleet, whatever. The “what will people do” mantra came out.

A $20 ride becomes $10. So, what do they do the passengers do with that $10? Nothing? No, it is invested, spent, enjoyed in a different manner–it goes elsewhere in the economy.

Notice the proliferation of micro-breweries in the country? This is a byproduct of additional wealth.

Think of every schlub out there who spends an hour or more each day getting to work. While driving, they are at their least productive.

That hour wasted in the car commuting becomes an hour catching up on e-mail, which allows another hour at home with kids (cooking dinner, helping with homework, etc.), an extra hour of sleep.

One less accident due to a drunk driver saves at a minimum several thousand dollars, and is easily millions of dollars.

All those poor, poor ER trauma doctors will be out of a job.

It can’t come fast enough, IMHO.

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Comment by tj
2017-01-21 13:01:54

you’re correct.

and to expand on automation..

automation will eventually destroy nearly every job in existence now. and in its wake will be different jobs in greater number and higher paying than existed before.

 
Comment by butters
2017-01-21 13:05:18

You have to share what you’re smoking there.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2017-01-21 13:14:44
 
Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2017-01-21 13:41:23

People should be careful what they wish for. The AI / Automation is not intended for just manual factory jobs.

HR, finance, accounting.. lots of white-collar jobs are on the chopping block too.

Like RocketMortgage! Push button get mortgage! Heheh.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 13:50:03

People should be careful what they wish for.

i am.

The AI / Automation is not intended for just manual factory jobs.

very true!

HR, finance, accounting.. lots of white-collar jobs are on the chopping block too.

true again! and i want more automation because we’ll all be better off with it (even though i suspect you don’t believe that).

 
Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2017-01-21 14:06:31

I think one of the valuable skills of the future will be troubleshooting and fixing things. Of course those skills are always in demand, but being able to diagnose problems and then fix them will become even more sought-after in the future. The problem is, it’s hard to teach someone how to be an effective troubleshooter. You can’t always just follow some A-B-C formula to find out what’s wrong with something. Intuition is a significant part of it, and both logical and creative thinking, and those things are hard to teach. In some ways, you either have it or you don’t.

 
Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2017-01-21 14:12:24

-> “(even though i suspect you don’t believe that)”

Well, I have mixed feelings on the whole thing, but I don’t have any fundamental disagreements with greater automation and efficiency, and technology moving us in that direction.

I’m actually guilty of it myself. Without going into specifics, I’ve been directly responsible for creating technology that actually did automate people out of jobs. Some were retrained into new roles.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 14:20:45

I think one of the valuable skills of the future will be troubleshooting and fixing things.

i again agree with you, but those skills may be fixing the things that fix things that fix things..

The problem is, it’s hard to teach someone how to be an effective troubleshooter.

yes, trouble shooting often becomes an art. but eventually we’ll teach machines to fix each other. then even trouble shooting will become a lost art. but it won’t matter. it won’t matter because we’re all going to be freed up to do work that will continually get easier, more interesting and rewarding. the future jobs don’t even have names or categories now. and the value of our labor will keep increasing even though it seems less necessary than ever before. this is what happens when a society keeps getting wealthier.

yes, this is a ways off, but it will happen if we don’t let big government socialism send us to the poor house.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 14:22:08

I’ve been directly responsible for creating technology that actually did automate people out of jobs. Some were retrained into new roles.

so you are seeing it actually happen. don’t give it a second thought. you’re doing good.

 
Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 14:29:57

Well, tj, let me ask you to support your supposition:

How will we all be better off with automation? In what ways?

 
Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2017-01-21 14:30:21

One real-life example in my neighborhood where automation didn’t work at my local grocery store. They had about half their checkout lanes as the self-checkout style, where you scan your own items. Great — fewer clerks to employ, cheaper to run the business.

A couple months ago, they took ‘em out and went back to normal lanes. I asked them why, and they said it was because of theft. The designers did not plan for theft. Ironically, it happened around the same time Bezos was showing off his new grocery-store-of-the-future, where he supposedly solves the theft problem with RFID chips or something, you just walk out with your items and get charged automatically.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 14:59:06

How will we all be better off with automation? In what ways?”

i’ve been supporting it here for years. even on today’s page.

the more automation there is, the more the efficiency/value of our labor leveraged. the more value our labor has, the more value our dollars have. the result is we can buy more for less.

the more wealth a society has, the more jobs can and will be created. in other words, employers will have to begin competing for employees instead of what we have now where potential employees are forced to compete for jobs. this is what raises wages and brings better working conditions.

it seems 90% of people are afraid of automation. they shouldn’t be.

the caveat is that if taxes are being raised and regs increased, automation can’t bring all its benefits.

 
Comment by butters
2017-01-21 15:52:27

Planes (including large commercial ones) can takeoff/fly/land automatically. The technology has existed for at least 30 yrs. It still has no widespread use…hardly any use tbh. What makes anyone think that the society/countries/laws will adopt driverless cars in next 10 to 20 yrs while the techonlogy is still being perfected?

 
Comment by butters
2017-01-21 16:09:55

it seems 90% of people are afraid of automation. they shouldn’t be.

What an idiotic argument…Large swath of public who has never seen a snake is afraid of snakes. The point is we don’t live in a rational world…where theories work like as it has written in the text books. Society will adopt automation…has to, but the adoption will be much much slower than anyone thinks.

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2017-01-21 16:19:03

“but the adoption will be much much slower than anyone thinks.”

I see where people are coming from with this but perhaps the Jetsons set unreasonable expectations. In 2006 Blackberries with a physical keyboard were all the rage. A year later the iPhone changed the game and Blackberry began its decline.

My point? Cheap money has probably played its part to mess with the natural order of things, but technology isn’t happening as linearly as in the past.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 16:20:35

the adoption will be much much slower than anyone thinks.

what an idiotic statement. how’s anyone supposed to know what “much much slower” is?

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2017-01-21 16:34:52

‘perhaps the Jetsons set unreasonable expectations’

I’m still waiting for the paperless office.

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2017-01-21 16:40:41

“I’m still waiting for the paperless office.”

I thought we were talking factories.

But, I just tossed my notebook in favor of doing everything on my tablet. Can I get partial credit?

 
Comment by MWR
2017-01-21 17:32:14

Several recent arcles on MW have stated you are more productive/successful if you use pen and paper.

Just trying to help you out!

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2017-01-21 18:51:43

“you are more productive/successful”

Ha! Yeah, I suspect at some point I’ll migrate back. I did it to lessen how much I carried but, what if you want to use the tablet to do a presentation, while also taking notes? Doesn’t work so well.

 
Comment by Panda Triste
2017-01-21 23:40:59

“Notice the proliferation of micro-breweries in the country? This is a byproduct of additional wealth.”

Subsidized borrowing costs, Yellenbux. Just like the Pirate Boutique and Che Cupcakes.

My parents drank Folgers coffee and Campbell’s soup. I don’t, but I have half as many children.

 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2017-01-21 15:21:15

“There were guys standing around all along it.”

The difference? 20-50 years ago there were 10x+ the number of guys doing that.

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Comment by Karen
2017-01-21 17:50:19

‘perhaps the Jetsons set unreasonable expectations’

I’m still waiting for the paperless office.

That’s exactly what I was going to say.

Not only don’t we have a paperless office, in many ways what we do have is much worse. Computers and software are ten times the headache of paper and pen.

 
 
Comment by Patrick
2017-01-21 19:08:15

I am heavily involved with automation.

Yesterday a poster was talking about hydro power and it’s automation. That is a very good illustration of total remote automated control. A guy in Europe can get incredible operating reports on his power station in Canada and adjust his stop logs, efficiences - from his Blackberry - in real time.

Or the farmer. GPS guides his tractor around his carrot patch as a trencher pulls the carrots out of the ground, they are washed and cut, bagged, bailed, placed on skids, wrapped, and unloaded to a truck following this “picker”. Both vehicles unmanned. Production reports, yields etc uploaded real time.

Or the manufacturer of mattresses from springs to mattress without a single human hand involved.

And the competition to continuously come up with faster, lighter, more reliable automation systems is creating many new jobs.

This is the manufacturing envelope that President Trump is returning those jobs to. And there will be lots of jobs to monitor, service, design, develop dies, castings, plcs, controllers, etc. Certainly not mindless jobs.

By having given away our industries we can now get them back and execute them in a much better manner.

I just hope the governments will allow fast write offs of equipment as they will depreciate very fast. Some ITC money would also be nice.

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Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2017-01-21 19:38:59

“This is the manufacturing envelope that President Trump is returning those jobs to. And there will be lots of jobs to monitor, service, design, develop dies, castings, plcs, controllers, etc. Certainly not mindless jobs.”

^This. Inevitably someone will ask me if I’m doing better under Trump than I did under Obama. I suspect bigly that the answer will be yes.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 22:30:39

@ Patrick - this actually sounds terrific.

 
Comment by Panda Triste
2017-01-21 23:46:43

“And there will be lots of jobs to monitor, service, design, develop dies, castings, plcs, controllers, etc. Certainly not mindless jobs.”

The problem is that likely 90% of people clamoring for a “factory” job today ARE mindless.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-22 09:54:08

“The problem is that likely 90% of people clamoring for a “factory” job today ARE mindless.”

That’s why better education is sorely needed. Ability to learn is the most important skill one can develop.

 
Comment by The Enrager
2017-01-22 10:06:24

Dept of (un) Education failed decades ago. Time to shut it down.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-22 10:21:40

Time to replace Department of Education with religious Sunday Schools.

The only thing a child needs to learn is intelligent design. Everything else is from the devil.

/sarcasm

 
Comment by The Enrager
2017-01-22 10:35:11

And we’re going to ditch the EPA too. We’re going to make America great once again.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2017-01-22 13:48:00

The problem is that likely 90% of people clamoring for a “factory” job today ARE mindless.

Exhibit 2,432,534 on how the Ds could miss a slam dunk.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-24 13:26:13

“And we’re going to ditch the EPA too. We’re going to make America great once again.”

You are going to make America disappear.

Oh, well. It was a nice dream.

 
 
 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2017-01-21 12:20:50

Another thing about factories is that they have domino effects, as they often have suppliers. If the factory is in Asia, the suppliers will be in Asia, if it’s in Indiana, they will be either in Indiana or a neighboring state.

And then of course there’s the wages the factory workers earn, which also get spent locally. And if they can used said wages to purchase domestically produced products, that’s another multiplier.

Sure sounds better than people working three minimum wage P/T jobs, or collecting welfare while buying imported junk at WalMart.

Comment by MightyMike
2017-01-21 12:38:33

That’s assuming that the factory jobs pay a lot more than minimum wage.

Comment by In Colorado
2017-01-21 13:27:57

Since today’s factory jobs do require some skills, I think they do pay a bit more than minimum wage. Not UAW wages, but better than minimum wage.

The down side is that modern factories are a lot more automated than they used to be. So the factory itself might not provide the number of jobs it would have in the past. But the domino effect is still there.

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Comment by Apartment 401
2017-01-21 13:38:47

Pulling wire can never be replaced by robots or outsourced to India.

I know alot of people at my old Dept of Energy gig wondering how much longer they’ll have jobs…

 
Comment by Lurker
2017-01-21 14:00:10

I’ve posted about these documentaries before, but considering this conversation and yesterday’s event it bears repeating. I had the privilege of watching these films back-to-back in the same week, and I can’t think of a better illustration of the difference between the dignity of first-world capitalism and the degradation inherent in dystopian globalism.

1) ‘Building Cars Live’ with James May (BBC)
2) ‘The True Cost’ (on Netflix Streaming)

NYck, why not take 3 hours and watch the first documentary about a Mini Cooper factory in the UK? Then come back and tell us what you think about the men and women who work on the assembly lines, the innovators who create and maintain the technology that allows the plant to be efficient and environmentally friendly, and the managers and accountants who make the financials work. Tell us how these people are losers. Tell us there is no dignity in their endeavors.

Then watch the second documentary, which is how you seem to think all your disposable consumables should be made. Because there are losers and life, and you’re a winner, right?

Without the belief in the dignity of all work, the alternative is exploitation and near-slavery.

Comment by Lurker
2017-01-21 14:31:17

Unfortunately this is the only way to watch car doc. Wish there were a dvd to buy!

Part 1 - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezim48xJi00
Part 2 - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BVrl08URnxU

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 22:40:29

@ Lurker - you’re mistaken about me. In my mind, it’s never a person’s occupation or social status which determines a “loser”. It’s the attitude. Blaming only others for one’s misfortunes - while refusing to roll with the punches and change with the times.

 
 
 
Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 09:47:57

“What he finds is a fundamentally unsustainable financial outlook and a pattern of growth and deterioration that is repeated in almost every American town and city.”

“Faced with having to shell out billions just to keep the streets from not deteriorating any further, Dallas can’t pay for its own maintenance and has to go into debt just keep infrastructure status quo.”

I deliberately flipped the order of these two paragraphs as posted above.

What jumps out at me is the advantages that towns and cities with less infrastructure might have - especially civil infrastructure. Perhaps places that still have dirt and brick roads (both literally and figuratively speaking) will end up better off than anyone has expected.

Leave it to me to say something so contrary.

Comment by Ben Jones
2017-01-21 09:57:52

Let’s take Dallas: much of the infrastructure is for commuting. Because people can’t afford to live near where they work, doncha know. Price is a very important part of supply and demand. Price tells market participants when to build further out, for example. If you start monkeying around with prices, it sends the wrong signals. Everybody piles in: sewage plants go in where they shouldn’t. Retail, hospitals, you name it. Now, if you distort prices for decades it can produce really bad outcomes. So bad that politicians don’t dare do anything to upset it.

Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 10:19:52

Precisely.

Maybe there should be “planned obsolescence” relative to infrastructure.

Perhaps it would be more beneficial to deliberately let some types of infrastructure fall into disrepair, only to be done differently.

Take roads. Let them fall apart and build them differently next time (i.e. “bricks”). Less costly, and a more permeable surface will result in less urban flooding, for example.

Many people think density and mass transit are the answer. Who says? Perhaps we need to rethink the concept of “roads”.

Surely we can come up with better road surfaces than what we drive on today.

Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2017-01-21 21:56:06

-> “Surely we can come up with better road surfaces than what we drive on today.”

For a while they’ve been talking about putting solar cells into roads, it looks like some progress is being made. It’s still way too expensive for widespread use, but I like the idea. This is from November:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-24/solar-panel-roads-to-be-built-across-four-continents-next-year

They also did this one in France in December:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/22/solar-panel-road-tourouvre-au-perche-normandy

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Comment by In Colorado
2017-01-21 13:36:00

What I don’t get is that the streets in my little burg is just fine and the last time the city borrowed money was $12,000,000 about ten years ago (after voters approved it) to build a new courthouse/police HQ. The library was recently expanded without borrowing a single penny.

Of course, our municipal employees don’t get pensions (just 403b plans) and are actually kind of low paid (and yet, they never seem to have trouble filling any vacant positions).

It might also help that two of the main streets in town happen to be US34 and US287, which I’m guessing means that Uncle Sam picks up most of the tab for maintenance. Yet the the other streets are not crumbling.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2017-01-21 10:06:43

It turns out that federal government employees can’t hire their relatives, due to the anti-nepotism law.

Who knew?

Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 10:17:26

Trump is different. Rules are for little people.

Comment by Professor Bear
2017-01-21 12:46:59

I totally forgot…if the President does it, it’s legal.

Comment by Blue Skye
2017-01-21 14:40:54

If you’re really interested, find out what the law is. I would seem you think it is something it is not.

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Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 16:02:52

It’s not ethical, that’s for sure.

There will be more anti-nepotism laws on the books after Trump leaves* (*if we manage to kick him and his brood out, although he may be aiming for a Putin-like “forever”). Just like the current anti-nepotism laws were enacted after Kennedys.

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Comment by rms
2017-01-21 16:38:11

“Just like the current anti-nepotism laws were enacted after Kennedys.”

That was Camelot not nepotism. :)

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2017-01-21 16:56:33

kick him and his brood out…

It’s clear you are an operative. Here with a blast of Russia, Russia, Russia! just before the election. We don’t want Obama/Hillary’s war of wars to save Globalism. That’s one of the reasons we elected Trump.

We also get that you little internet foot soldiers are funded to discredit our government. Biden said it pretty well. Good luck.

BTW, personal staff is not defined as nepotism. Almost every President has had family on personal staff. He didn’t put a relative in any government agency. And the guy isn’t even taking a salary. Your kind of BS won’t fly.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 17:17:15

@Blue Skye - You got brainwashed by putinbots and right wing troll bots.

Everything you don’t like is “fake news” (never mind the facts), everyone who disagrees with you is an “operative”, meanwhile, you get your information from the fascist sponsored trolling propaganda machine.

You’re not the first, they’ve perfected their propaganda techniques on Russians. Now it’s here. It’s sad.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2017-01-21 17:57:39

The problem is that I look for verification. I’ve been doing process engineering for nearly half a century. I listen to cute, popular and convenient ideas, but I want proof. I want to test. I want to uncover lies, manias, misconceptions and finding cause and effect. I’ve had a career of it.

I think you will find me rather insult proof. Insults, like you, aren’t factual. Irrational voices like yours need to be separated from any productive conversation about problems and solutions. Say whatever you like, but it won’t be given serious consideration.

You do add though to the sense of a swelling of lies, which should be ebbing at the moment. It’s going to be a time of keeping the flyswatter close at hand.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 18:27:28

@Blue Skye - I’m Russian, and in the past several years I’ve experienced first hand the Russian state sponsored fascist propaganda machine, both online and in real life. It’s frighteningly effective at zombifying population.

For you, it’s just internet and words, and you don’t believe me, and you think you’re immune. For me, it’s real life experience.

I’ve seen what it does to people. It’s real.

I keep saying “Russia, Russia, Russia”, because I lived it, and I still live it every time I read Russian-speaking news or visit. You may not believe that monster is real, but I’ve seen it, and it pains me when I see it here.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2017-01-21 21:16:16

” believe me”

OK. Stop lying.

Truth tellers do not mock.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 22:09:19

Which part do think is a lie?

I share what I know. And I know a lot more than you do, LOL, about Russia.

 
Comment by The Enrager
2017-01-21 22:11:59

Don’t be a DebtDonkey.

 
 
 
 
Comment by phony scandals
2017-01-21 14:06:49

Thank God Trup’s family has their own money.

Why did NBC reportedly pay Chelsea Clinton $600,000 a year?

Now a price tag has been hung on that scandal, with Politico’s reporting that Clinton has been paid a salary of $600,000. The network hasn’t confirmed the figure, but it hasn’t denied it either, and responded to Politico’s questions by asserting that it “continues to enjoy a wonderful working relationship with Chelsea, and we are proud of her work.”

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-why-did-nbc-pay-chelsea-clinton-20140616-column.html

Check is in the mail: Sen. Feinstein’s husband to cash in selling old post offices

By Phillip Swarts - Washington Guardian - Wednesday, June 12, 2013

The real estate giant chaired by Richard Blum, the husband of California Sen. Dianne Feinstein, is cashing in on a new federal crisis.

Just a few years after the firm now known as CBRE Group collected more than $108 million from a contract to help the FDIC sell foreclosed properties, the company owned in part by Blum is selling off old post offices under an exclusive contract with the financially struggling U.S. Postal Service, records show.

“One way the Postal Service is saving money and generating revenue is by selling properties that were determined to be unneeded for current operations,” Postal Service spokeswoman Sue Brennan told the Washington Guardian. “Reducing the number of properties the Postal Service owns contributes significantly to the bottom line — in terms of saving money and as a source of revenue when the property is sold.”

Nonetheless, the deal is the latest example of how relatives of powerful politicians and federal officials routinely benefit from the largesse of a government overseen or run by their loved ones.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/12/firm-chaired-by-sen-feinsteins-husband-cashes-in-o/

Comment by rms
2017-01-21 16:48:17

“Why did NBC reportedly pay Chelsea Clinton $600,000 a year?”

Maybe there was some chemistry… real journalism?

Comment by redmondjp
2017-01-21 23:22:39

Well, she can’t make herself care about money, so they had to up the amount until she could ;)

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Comment by redmondjp
2017-01-21 23:19:21

PB - this may be the law, but it gets broken all of the time. I work for a federal agency, and through the grapevine have found out that a midlevel manager (east Indian) is related to not one but two first-line managers that he has been pulling strings for to move them up into management.

And nobody can say anything because they’ll run right over to the civil rights department and scream ‘discrimination’ (has already happened with other so-called minorities there).

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 11:21:54

Put on those hip-waders, folks, because the commie agitprop is getting deeper by the minute.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 11:45:14

@NYchk

you said on the 19th: “Better education is what America really needs,”

and what magic do you think education has for making money?

edison and henry ford both dropped out of high school. i believe jd rockefeller also dropped out. gates dropped out of college. and there are many more examples.

for making money that creates jobs, there’s no panacea in education. the real wealth is made in doing, not so much learning.

when i talk about ‘factories’ i’m talking about production. efficient production. that’s the base of a nation’s wealth.. production, not education. the automation that most people seem to fear, simply adds value to aggregate labor. it means that all labor within a nation becomes more efficient and valuable. and that means that the hours every worker puts in become more valuable. that is if the production isn’t hampered by high taxes and burdensome regulations.

higher education is great for scientists and engineers. and they get paid well, but most of them don’t become wealthy.

your fixation on education hinders you.

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 12:03:03

“your fixation on education hinders you.”

Just replace the word “education” with “indoctrination” and you’ll understand. Rosa Klebb is not hindered in any way.

Communism never ended. It just migrated to the US.

Check out the red diaper babies in the video. Punching a Trump supporter in the face for putting out a fire they started.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-21/americas-real-division-summarized-100-seconds

Comment by MightyMike
2017-01-21 12:35:58

Don’t worry. That’s not America’s real division.

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 12:44:53

I didn’t say it was, bluenose. That’s ZH’s title, not mine.

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Comment by tj
2017-01-21 12:41:31

Just replace the word “education” with “indoctrination”.

yes, education is indoctrination these days. but that’s not what she’s talking about. she meant education in the best sense. that’s how i responded.

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 12:48:48

“but that’s not what she’s talking about. she meant education in the best sense.”

Yes it is, and you have no clue what she’s talking about. Not what you think it is.

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Comment by tj
2017-01-21 12:52:02

then explain it.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 13:38:21

i remember you also said you like peter navarro on trump’s economic team. what is it you like about him?

 
Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 14:11:32

We already discussed this. Death by China. Impressive documentary.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 14:33:29

i couldn’t care less about documentaries. i’d like you to tell me what i’m not getting. please be specific.

 
Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 14:53:07

“i couldn’t care less about documentaries”

Well, that’s just fine and dandy, I thought you asked me what I liked, not what you liked.

“what is it you like about him?” Isn’t that what you wrote?

 
Comment by MightyMike
2017-01-21 15:23:38

The documentary is the answer to your question. If you don’t get that, palmetto could only guess the reason.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 15:41:58

I thought you asked me what I liked, not what you liked.

at this point i’m not even sure which of my posts you were replying to.

was it:

A: then explain it

or

B: the china documentary

i asked you why you liked peter navarro on trump’s economic team. if you’re referring to a documentary, please be specific about the part you’re referring to. as a matter of fact, i don’t even know what documentary you’re talking about. just write a comment on why you like navarro.

then on the other comment, i was asking you what i wasn’t getting about what NYchk said.

 
 
 
 
Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 12:20:54

“Your fixation on education hinders you.”

This is prevalent everywhere in our society now, top to bottom and coast to coast.

You see it daily in interactions and transactions, in companies that cannot find employees with the “right qualifications.”

For the most part, it’s all nonsense (exceptions being SOME high technical / medical ).

Education and pedigree is much less important that aptitude and capability.

NYchick appears not to understand that, which is a possibility due to her seemingly sheltered Northeastern upbringing and lifestyle. She doesn’t know differently because she’s never had to know.

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 12:34:57

Moscow chk is a Soviet emigre. Masquerading as an “American”.

Moose and sqvirrel.

Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 13:04:50

LOL! Palmy, well that would make sense, wouldn’t it?

Comes to the USA sometime during 1992-1998 from Russia or some other post-Warsaw Pact country. Let’s say Romania. Settles in New York State. Sees factory workers as sub-human and abhorrent. A sub class. New York is just like home - full of horse-riding elitists and socialists - except it has running water, dependable utilities and stocked grocery shelves. The liquor isn’t up to snuff, but that’s a minor quibble. Heck, after a some rounds of Colt 45 and Mad Dog 20/20, one can drink anything!

Believed for years that the USA was a land of milk and honey rather than hard work and self-motivation. Yellow brick road and all “it appears out of nowhere” fantasy bullshit.

If you are correct, it would explain plenty.

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Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 13:29:17

She says she’s from Russia, and I believe that much.

My sis had a friend from Romania who came over as an au pair and ended up becoming the second missus of a very well-off Wall Street guy. Sealed the deal by having a daughter ASAP. Very unimpressed with all the wealth she landed in the middle of, drove the trophy wives nuts. Went to school for an accounting degree to have something to fall back on in case hubby moved on and always worked at least part time outside of the household, although she didn’t have to.

She had that sort of placid Slavic stoicism, get the job done. Smart as a whip, but quietly so. Actually very impressive. I must ask my sis whatever happened to her.

 
Comment by Karen
2017-01-21 13:39:05

She was only familiar with shitty Soviet factories that produced nothing of quality or value. Hence her cluelessness.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2017-01-21 13:44:26

Went to school for an accounting degree to have something to fall back on in case hubby moved on

He must have had an iron clad prenup.

 
Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 14:09:26

Palmy,

Yeah, you should track her down; sounds like a solid individual.

Better still, get her to post here. Getting her views / opinions would be fascinating.

I was in Prague for about 70 days back in 1998. The Czechs also are a stoic, smart, hard working lot. Very unassuming. Personable. Reminded me of the Dutch, temperamentally speaking.

 
Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 14:32:16

“Better still, get her to post here. Getting her views / opinions would be fascinating.”

I heard her husband said that being married to her was like being on a nice, peaceful vacation after the roller coaster ride with the high strung first wife.

 
 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 17:45:09

@palmetto - “Masquerading as an “American”.”

I’m more American than you are - at least I whole-heartedly support American values, while you’re ready to trade them in for a “factory job, with fascism on the side”, LOL.

@MacBeth - I’m from Russia. I lived in the Midwest and the South, including a short stint on the West Coast, before moving to the Northeast. The people I met in the heartland were the nicest, the most down to earth people I knew.

I do sympathize with Rust Belt, just as I sympathize with all people losing their jobs through outsourcing. But I don’t believe a liar just because he says something I like to hear, especially when it doesn’t even jibe with the real world.

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Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 18:45:08

“I’m more American than you are - at least I whole-heartedly support American values, while you’re ready to trade them in for a “factory job, with fascism on the side”, LOL.”

Sure thing, Natasha. Moose and Sqvirrel.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 20:36:04

Sure thing, Adolf.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2017-01-21 21:45:02

The thing Natasha, is that you really are a commie, and you think that American values are the Marxist tripe that Screech was spewing in her campaign. Not surprising, given where you came from.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 22:01:14

You don’t know what “commie” means, do you?

 
 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2017-01-21 13:40:37

You see it daily in interactions and transactions, in companies that cannot find employees with the “right qualifications.”

That’s because employers don’t want to spend a penny training employees. They want to hire people who can hit the ground running, even if those qualifications are highly specialized and even unique to the employer. Then they complain that there is “no one to hire” and demand that taxpayers foot the bill for training, or they’ll move the business somewhere else.

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 14:16:37

Boy, you hit the nail on the head, Colorado. My sis used to be in recruiting and told me that a lot of the HR biz is utter bs. They advertise for jobs they have no intention of filling. Some HR twink gets her jollies by “hiring” a recruiting firm that only gets paid on the come, if they make a placement, and then has a ball running them ragged and rejecting candidate after candidate.

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Comment by butters
2017-01-21 20:18:40

The hiring manager decides who he or she wants. HR is just a pawn.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2017-01-21 21:47:55

Your mileage may vary. What I have observed is that when the hiring manager decides to pull the trigger and hire a candidate, he needs to get buy in from all sorts of people (usually the chain of command above him) before an offer is officially extended. And that sometimes includes HR.

 
 
Comment by MacBeth
2017-01-21 14:18:34

No doubt, especially that last part.

Good luck finding individuals who can fit all those temporary, high-niche positions, right? Geez. All that graft and wasted talent.

Did you see the posts Ben and Karen wrote in response to each other today re: automation? Both are excellent.

My point in bringing those up is that people can be retooled easily and inexpensively. Why HR departments don’t recognize that is because they and the honchos don’t want to. The emperors have no clothes? Sure, sometimes, but not all that often.

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Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2017-01-21 20:40:43

-> “That’s because employers don’t want to spend a penny training employees.”

Maybe I have been lucky, but my experiences working for both large and small technology companies has been the exact opposite. It’s common that the company spends money for training on new technologies and/or new skills for their employees. Of course, you don’t become an “expert” after a two-week training course, it’s more like you get your feet wet, enough to delve deeper either on the job, or on your own, or both.

One large company I worked for, they would even pay for employees to take college classes on technical subjects, as long as they were relevant to the job. (And you didn’t flunk it).

In all cases, there’s been a clear expectation, that as an employee, you can’t just remain at a plateau with your knowledge and skills forever. With the exception of “crunch mode” time, the company expects you to devote 10-20% of your time towards learning new things. And most of the time, they would provide the means to do so. Pretty cool.

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Comment by Big Fat Ugly Bubble
2017-01-21 21:34:21

Another thing we used to do. If one employee in a team had a lot of specialized knowledge in one area, or was particularly skilled at something, we’d make ‘em teach training classes to their other coworkers, to the rest of the team. Nobody was exempted. Even if you weren’t the most-skilled person, or the greatest public speaker, you’d still have to participate and do something.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2017-01-21 21:55:43

That used to be the norm. I remember when HP used to pay for training, even college credits. That is pretty rare these days, but I suppose that some still do.

I would agree that employers expect you to keep your skills sharp. But they also expect you to so it on your own time and pay for it yourself.

One thing I have seen is employees sneaking new tech into a project (say a new programming language). Not because it made sense for the project, but because they could put it on their resume, making it easier to land the next gig. They would learn the new tool on their own time, but get the real world experience that a book doesn’t provide, and thus add another bullet point to their resume. One skill, however, that I frequently saw missing, was the ability to stick with the project through the end (which is usually the hardest part). Many would bail out before the project would crash and burn (or be completed).

 
 
 
 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 17:03:59

@tj - The world had changed, it’s no longer enough to learn to read and then go on your merry way, looking for a simple job in a factory or a field. Agreed? Even for work (whatever human work will remain) in factories of the future, won’t one need to understand technology and robotics?

In order for the labor force to become more efficient and valuable, it needs to become better educated and flexible. The world is changing too fast to hope that one can learn a skill, and then coast through life on that one skill. The ability to learn new things, and fast, comes with practice. Quality of education is important.

Americans constantly rate lower in education than their competitors. How are we supposed to complete, if the next generation is already falling behind?

I keep hearing about wanting to “bring the factories back” to the US, meanwhile China and other competitors are beefing up their science, research and development capabilities.

I support bringing the jobs back, but I question the value of bringing back the automated production and subsidizing obsolete industries, which seems to be the focus. To promise young people today - “don’t worry, we’ll bring back the sewing jobs, and the coal jobs, and the car assembly line jobs, so that you’ll work in the same low tech occupations as your grandfathers” - is misleading.

Comment by Karen
2017-01-21 17:57:09

Please show us where anyone is talking about subsidizing obsolete industries?

Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 18:55:32

Coal or “sewing” or car assembly line jobs - obsolete. Tarrifs is another form of subsidy.

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Comment by butters
2017-01-21 20:35:22

If the rest of the countries you trade with didn’t have tariffs then you would be right.

Tariffs in today’s world is a great equalizer.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2017-01-21 21:57:07

Funny how China still demands that cars be made in China to be sold there.

 
 
 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 18:05:14

Even for work (whatever human work will remain) in factories of the future, won’t one need to understand technology and robotics?”

to use technology.. no. to design technology.. yes.

In order for the labor force to become more efficient and valuable, it needs to become better educated and flexible.”

you don’t need education to upgrade your skills. just keep your skills up to date.

Americans constantly rate lower in education than their competitors. How are we supposed to complete, if the next generation is already falling behind?”

what people learn in tech often becomes obsolete before they even graduate.

I support bringing the jobs back, but I question the value of bringing back the automated production

we have to use automation. we can’t compete on wages with low wage countries. we have to compete on efficiency. it’s the only way to pay more.

look, you’re talking about getting the highest paying jobs that exist, or soon will exist. jobs that people can prepare for in college. i’m talking about creating new jobs that people haven’t even thought of yet. that takes wealth, not skills.

i agree that our crappy education/indoctrination system needs to be scrapped or upgraded. but learning isn’t about creating wealth. doing is. production is.

i doubt that rockefeller, edison or ford knew or cared that they were making everyone in america a little wealthier. they didn’t have a deep understanding of economics. they weren’t about creating wealth, they were about getting wealthy. they were accidently creating wealth in the process of getting wealthy. and everyone in america benefitted from it.

Comment by The Enrager
2017-01-21 18:25:45

The Dept of (un)Education is my first choice for President Trump to wack.

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Comment by tj
2017-01-21 18:40:49

gawd i’d love to see it closed.

 
Comment by redmondjp
2017-01-21 23:26:50

Yup. Reagan thought the same thing, but couldn’t pull it off.

 
Comment by The Enrager
2017-01-22 05:32:56

Reagan was no Trump.

 
 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 19:15:21

@tj - I think you and I are closer in our viewpoints than you realize.

“you don’t need education to upgrade your skills. just keep your skills up to date.”

For me, “upgrading one’s skills” IS education. Constant, life-long. Good education is not about a specific set of theoretical knowledge. It’s about teaching people how to learn (and how to think critically).

As for Ford, Edison and Rockefeller, you forget that when they created wealth, the economy was national, due to technology constraints. Now it’s global. You can’t put that genie back into the bottle - corporations are multi-national, and the economy is global.

Peter Thiel, the stanchest Trump supporter, dreams about seasteading and floating islands - where billionaires like him would live independent of “nations”, and create wealth without any need to share, LOL.

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Comment by tj
2017-01-21 19:33:28

For me, “upgrading one’s skills” IS education.

most people would think you’re talking about a classroom.

As for Ford, Edison and Rockefeller, you forget that when they created wealth, the economy was national, due to technology constraints. Now it’s global.

trade is now global, but our economy is still national. we are concerned about our country’s economy more that what’s happening globally. our laws, taxes and regs all make our economy unique from any others. it is quite national, even if we buy and sell globally.

corporations are multi-national

some are, but they still have to adhere to the laws of the nations they are working in. global trade doesn’t obviate the national economy.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 21:00:20

Our economy is national, but it’s an integrated part of global economy - something that did not exist to the same degree during times of Ford & Rockefeller.

 
Comment by tj
2017-01-21 21:32:29

Our economy is national, but it’s an integrated part of global economy - something that did not exist to the same degree during times of Ford & Rockefeller.

of course, but you didn’t say that in the beginning. you said we’re in a global economy, and we’re not. we’re in a national economy that has global trade. trade doesn’t statistically change the number of products in the world.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2017-01-21 12:36:10

‘The FHA sells insurance to protect against defaults and doesn’t issue mortgages. It is a popular program among first-time home buyers because it allows borrowers to make a down payment of as low as 3.5 percent with a credit score of 580, on a scale of 300 to 850.’

‘The Obama administration announced last week it would cut the insurance premium by a quarter of a percentage point to 0.60 percent, effective on Jan. 27.’

‘Some housing industry groups lauded the change, saying it could increase home buying by offsetting recent rises in mortgage rates. Supporters of the reduction were disappointed that the Trump administration reversed course.’

“This action is completely out of alignment with President Trump’s words about having the government work for the people,” said John Taylor, president of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition, through a spokesman. “Exactly how does raising the cost of buying a home help average people?”

‘Sarah Edelman, director of housing policy for the left-leaning Center for American Progress, in an e-mail wrote, “On Day 1, the president has turned his back on middle-class families — this decision effectively takes $500 out of the pocketbooks of families that were planning to buy a home in 2017. This is not the way to build a strong economy.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2017-01-21 12:49:30

Will government sponsored subprime lending get phased out, now that Republicans are.in control?

Comment by Rental Watch
2017-01-21 13:20:51

I doubt it, but if you are in a hole, you need to first stop digging. This first step is in that direction.

He might be looking for a bigger shovel to dig even deeper…we won’t know for a bit.

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 14:43:21

“He might be looking for a bigger shovel to dig even deeper…we won’t know for a bit.”

My sense is he’s looking for a bigger meat axe to take to government. Can’t happen soon enuf.

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Comment by In Colorado
2017-01-21 13:41:42

I doubt that the FHA will go away. But I could see it becoming a lot harder to get an FHA loan.

Comment by MWR
2017-01-21 17:47:57

Latest I read was Banks made about 10% of the FHA loans last year down from 62% in 2010 (or 2011 I can’t recall)
This concerns the Fed because nonbank lends have no capital. In other words, lots of the companies (But certaily not all) can go BK and open up tomorrow under a new name. Why did the banks get out of FHA lending? Because of triple damages for FHA loans “poorly” underwitting. Dumb move by the Community Activist leader.

By the way, in 2013 we had to buy a loan back due to poor UW that was originated in 2001. Yes 2001 is correct. Fannie and Freddie now have a 2 year limit by back on bad loans (excluding fraud) so some of the risk to banks is rudced. FHA can still go after triple damages!!

Lots of banks are out of FHA or have serious overlays on those loans.

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Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 18:29:42

Thank you for the clarification.

LOL, there seem to be some parallels between the FHA and Obamacare. Hmm…

 
 
 
Comment by rms
2017-01-21 16:59:43

“Will government sponsored subprime lending get phased out…”

Remember Dubya?
http://picpaste.com/home_of_your_own.jpg

 
 
 
Comment by new attitude
2017-01-21 12:52:27

Start planning for the Trump crash. Sell high. Wait, buy low.

Comment by The Enrager
2017-01-21 15:52:04

The crash already happened Lola.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 14:35:51

Apologies, Ben, I just have to say it:

Michael Moore and Pussy Galore!

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 15:01:36

Now, I’m just sure those ladies are going to move on to the Saudi Embassy and protest for women’s rights, aren’t they?

Comment by rms
2017-01-21 17:09:14

What do they want?

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 17:26:22

I have no clue, but I think many husbands and boyfriends were probably relieved that their ladies chose to collectively take it out on Trump today and give them a bit of a break.

And I’m sure the ladies will be stopping at Comet Ping-Pong Pizza to protest the child trafficking, too. I mean, as long as they’re in the area and all that.

Speaking of which, David Seaman, the foremost journalist covering Pizzagate, posted on one of his vids that he was contacted or has been in contact with someone from DHS. Pizzagate is real, and it is being investigated, or so he was told.

So I’m sure we’ll see some ladies come out for that, right? Ladies? Ladies? Ashley? Julia? Madonna? Michael Moore?

Sigh, I used to think Ashley Judd was a class act, but it’s said she suffers from severe depression.

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Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 21:13:17

OMG, you believe in Pizzagate?

Your mind is gone, then. Wow.

That’s what a few years away from the blog does. One completely misses how formerly sane people go, well, insane. :-(

 
Comment by redmondjp
2017-01-21 23:31:54

Let me explain something to you, NYchk - the deep state uses secret films of unspeakable acts to keep their government minions under control. People that have skeletons in their closets are the perfect operatives to carry out the wishes of the global powers that be.

One has to do nothing more than to look at the pictures of underwear-clad children on the wall of John Podesta’s office to know that these are some seriously sick people.

 
Comment by palmetto
2017-01-22 06:46:36

She knows.

What made me sick to my stomach was the Alefantis Instagram. People ask how a pizza merchant gets named one of the 50 most influential people in DC. Procurers have been around for as long as there have been governments, very popular in Rome, at royal courts, that sort of thing.

 
Comment by NYchk
2017-01-22 10:16:51

@redmondjp - “the deep state uses secret films of unspeakable acts to keep their government minions under control. People that have skeletons in their closets are the perfect operatives to carry out the wishes of the global powers that be.”

Yes, it does - in Russia. It’s a well known KGB (FSB/GRU) playbook.

You know what else KGB does? “Active measures” in Western democracies, which include mass-scale disinformation and smear campaigns. The goal is to sow distrust towards the government, the media, the police, the politicians, the democratic institutions, in order to undermine from within.

The alt-right-fake-news sites are taking pages directly from that old KGB playbook - lie and smear, and distribute destructive memes. Lying became a strategic asset.

 
 
Comment by phony scandals
2017-01-21 18:10:49

“What do they want?”

That seems to be a moving target.

Some days one of them wants her son back other days she thinks about blowing up the White House.

Watch Madonna’s Fiery, Expletive-Laden Speech at the Women’s March on Washington

News Editor, Online
Seth Kelley

“To our detractors, who say this march will not amount to anything. f— you,” Madonna said, repeating, “F— you.”

Madonna appeared to speak and sing at the march at the end of a long day filled with performers and speakers. Later the provocateur, who has been vocal about her distaste for recently-inaugurated President Trump, expressed her fury.

“Yes, I’m angry. Yes, I am outraged,” she said. “Yes, I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House. But I know that this won’t change anything.”

http://variety.com/2017/tv/opinion/madonna-speech-womens-march-washington-video-watch-1201966147/

‘I accept I have lost my son’: Madonna is left ‘utterly bereft’ after conceding defeat in bitter custody fight with Guy Ritchie over son Rocco

Madonna has conceded defeat to her ex-husband over custody of their son

By Louise Gannon For Mail On Sunday and Megan Pustetto For Daily Mail Australia
PUBLISHED: 20:44 EST, 5 March 2016

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3478670/I-accept-lost-son-says-Madonna-Pop-star-utterly-bereft-conceding-defeat-bitter-custody-fight.html#ixzz4WRlifS6l
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

For the life of me I can’t understand why any judge would give Madonna’s ex-husband custody of their son.

Madonna addresses the Australian crowd - Melbourne 12 March 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_CsTjbO1zo

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Comment by butters
2017-01-21 20:13:59

She wanted to suck off anyone who voted for Hillary. Seriously, does it surprise anyone that the son doesn’t want a mom like that?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by azdude
2017-01-21 14:41:15

I have a zillow ticker for my house now. wnenever I’m online I can see how much equity is rolling in.

I got pretty hammered last night and had a great thought.

If my house goes up enough this year I’m gonna make mr jones an all cash offer for the blog.

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 14:55:07

Why not just pay us to post here?

 
Comment by In Colorado
2017-01-21 16:10:33

f my house goes up enough this year I’m gonna make mr jones an all cash offer for the blog.

Go for it. Ben can take your money, start a new blog (I suggest calling it AFoolAndHisMoneyAreSoonParted.com) and we’ll all head over there (you can keep HA if you want).

Comment by The Enrager
2017-01-22 07:41:27

There’s a whole lot of rent free living going on.

 
 
 
Comment by phony scandals
2017-01-21 15:01:01

Anti-Trump Marchers ‘Mostly White’ Women Who Need ‘Therapy’ After Clinton Loss

by DR. SUSAN BERRY21 Jan 2017

“Demonstrations serve a useful function in a democracy — but only when they have clarity of purpose,” she writes, adding that the march is “shaping up to be a feel-good exercise in search of a cause.”

Dalmia writes some of the “absurdity” related to the event stems from “the fact that they are billing this event as the voice of women when 42 percent of women (and 62 percent of non-college educated white women) actually voted for Trump.”

http://www.drudgereport.com/
She also observes “the almost-comical progressive hysteria over the event’s name.” The initial plan by the “three white women” organizers, she says, was to call the event the “Million Women March,” but the women were criticized for “cultural appropriation” for “allegedly poaching the heritage of the 1997 Million Woman March for black women.”

“Feminists are confusing the issue by making Trump’s threat about themselves,” Dalmia concludes. “If they really wanted to help, they would have kept their powder dry for now, rather than embark on this confused and pointless march.”

Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 21:23:27

I’m guessing the point of this march was to mobilize supporters and to find strength in numbers.

I agree that it’s better to have more clarity about what they want to accomplish.

It’s not enough to demonstrate against, it would be more helpful to get organized and fight FOR something (whatever that something is - reproductive rights, or harsher punishments for pussy grabbers, or protection of free press).

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2017-01-21 21:27:01

“If they really wanted to help, they would have kept their powder dry for now, rather than embark on this confused and pointless march.”

I think this kind of powder doesn’t keep very long…if you don’t use it quickly everybody moves on to other things.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2017-01-21 15:14:10

“But the city’s huge infrastructure needs, which, as council member Lee Kleinman pointed out during a recent conversation about the upcoming bond election, are something that the city can’t cover in its general fund, aren’t unique to Dallas. Faced with having to shell out billions just to keep the streets from not deteriorating any further, Dallas can’t pay for its own maintenance and has to go into debt just keep infrastructure status quo.”

Isn’t this where Team Trump’s big government spending package is going to come to the rescue?

 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2017-01-21 15:25:46

Magnolia Seattle, WA Housing Prices Plunge 14% YoY; Housing Inventory Skyrockets

http://www.zillow.com/magnolia-seattle-wa/home-values/

 
Comment by justthefacts
2017-01-21 16:00:13

Did anyone just see the first White House press conference under Trump? Hilarious!! The POTUS throwing a temper tantrum over coverage of his weak inaugural turnout. Ha! Good thing he’s focused on the really important stuff. Even the people on Fox News watching it in real time were dumbfounded.

It amazes me that so many people who comment on this blog love this real estate investor president, but hate every other greedy blood-sucking real estate investor in the country.

Too funny.

Comment by Blue Skye
2017-01-21 16:34:50

Well Mr. Facts, you are batting Zero.

The mall was packed completely. I picked up on the media trick yesterday myself. Too funny that they did not time stamp that picture of the mall just partly filling in. The reality of can be seen in the coverage of the speech, looking out onto the mall. See my post in yesterday’s thread.

Trump was a real estate investor, not a Used House Salesperson whom we deride here. We on Ben’s blog are mostly all real estate investors of one stripe or another (some of us have more invested in boats).

So, beware the troll who starts with “Just the Facts”. “Just the opposite” is more like it.

BTW, the President did not speak at today’s press conference. It was the Press Secretary scolding the reporters. Biggest turnout in history!

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 17:01:16

Darn it, Blue, like I said, you’re what I wanted to be when I grew up, unfortunately I never grew up. What a spirit!

Sigh, I suppose it’s never too late. Well, I did take some time to help someone out and make it a better day for them.

How’s the art going? Working on anything special?

Comment by Blue Skye
2017-01-21 17:29:04

I’m not growing up either.

My children are helping me… Two daughters asked for big maple wooden salad bowls. I’m working on the lathe so what the heck, I made them. Done. So my son wrangles a few truck loads of logs so I can make zillions of salad bowls. This was my Christmas and is now my January preserving these wonderful pieces of wood into bowl blanks.

In a couple of weeks I can get back to my own projects I hope!

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Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 17:42:00

That is great, good woodworking is a true art. We have some guys around here who are virtuosos. One of them made cabinet sets for his grandchildren for Christmas.

 
 
 
Comment by justthefacts
2017-01-21 17:17:33

Hey, man. Whatever makes you feel better. Trump’s the biggest snowflake of them all. He used his first White House press conference to let us all see how fragile is ego is. It’s going to be a fun four years.

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 17:29:02

Hi, Russ.

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Comment by Blue Skye
2017-01-21 17:30:53

No, you’re a liar. Try not to do that.

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Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 17:58:04

It’s Russ, aka Central Scrutinizer, Truth, etc. He’s actually one of us, just doesn’t know it, yet. It may take a while, sigh. But he’ll get there.

 
Comment by TheCentralScrutinizer
2017-01-21 23:59:11

Nope… wasn’t me. I’m letting y’all trumple with glee for now.

I must have disciples.

 
 
Comment by butters
2017-01-21 20:08:51

I think he’s just effing with the press. He knows the modern corp media are nothing more than stenographers who hate his guts. The feeling is mutual, so he’s just gonna f with them and treat them like the who*** that they are.

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Comment by Lurker
2017-01-21 16:31:30

“I’m not worthy.”

Palmetto, cheers for your reply to my reply yesterday (just read it now). You made my self-esteem smile!

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 16:38:16

You have a gift I don’t have, to say much with few words.

Heh, I’m watching Trump address the CIA and I’m shocked, I tell you, SHOCKED what a warm, enthusiastic welcome he received.

I get the sense rank and file is relieved and happy Brennan is gone. And that the CIA itself has no problem with Trump, just the evil idiots at the top.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?422418-1/president-trump-tells-cia-get-rid-isis

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 16:48:33

Jeebus, they’re cheering him, laughing with him, he’s like a hero to them.

Wait, wut, didn’t they say the CIA was going to assassinate him?

The legacy media sucks smelly fish balls. So do the people who lap it up.

Comment by Blue Skye
2017-01-21 17:38:35

Thanks for the link. Those people are going to like being appreciated. They are also going to be held to a very high standard of performance!

Trump talks to people, huge crowds, like they were sitting around a coffee table. No script and no careful choice of ambiguous wording. Only a person whose heart was hardened in hate could not appreciate this.

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Comment by Karen
2017-01-21 18:14:33

He’s the ultimate alpha male, and he’s now in charge. Those guys know what’s up.

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Comment by The Enrager
2017-01-21 18:40:16

Get her done. Lead follow or GTF out of the way. The dude has a whole lot of work ahead of him and he knows exactly what needs to be done.

 
Comment by butters
2017-01-21 20:15:34

I don’t think he really knows what’s up…but let’s hope he does.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 18:10:28

Empty, my arse.

http://imgur.com/NGbN3MH

 
 
Comment by phony scandals
2017-01-21 18:13:59

Yes, let the joyous news be spread

The Climate Change Hoax at last is dead!

Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 21:10:13

Long live our glorious leader!

Comment by phony scandals
2017-01-21 21:21:59

Did you march today?

Comment by NYchk
2017-01-21 22:03:30

Nope.

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Comment by DJT
2017-01-21 22:06:05

The only winner here is me. And I’m living in your head rent free.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by phony scandals
2017-01-21 18:16:55

I wonder how Bill is doing tonight?

Bill Clinton Caught Checking Out Melania Trump At Inauguration!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SOOLJf8PiE

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 18:32:23

Was it Melania or Ivanka? Or both?

I guess he thought his purple tie was a real chick magnet.

I saw that shrub was still doing his frat boy shuffle.

 
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2017-01-21 18:21:07

Redmond, WA Housing Prices Crater 18% YoY As Demand For Housing Plummets

http://www.movoto.com/redmond-wa/market-trends/

Comment by azdude
2017-01-21 18:38:28

houses r the biggest meal ticket you can own. What dont u like about free money?

how has sitting on cash worked out for you? LMFAO

Comment by The Enrager
2017-01-21 18:57:13

You’re lagging Poet. Check yer blinker fluid.

 
 
Comment by redmondjp
2017-01-21 23:35:46

Laughable, Housing Analyst. There is zero inventory here right now and single-family 3BR homes that are 30-40 years old are selling for between $600K and $800K, depending upon the neighborhood. No slowdown in sight.

Comment by The Enrager
2017-01-22 05:29:08

Boots on the ground data my friend. Boots on the ground data.

Magnolia Seattle, WA Housing Prices Crater 14% YoY

http://www.zillow.com/magnolia-seattle-wa/home-values/

Comment by redmondjp
2017-01-22 12:53:25

Redmond

Zillow is an alt-left fake-news real estate data site.

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Comment by Raymond K Hessel
2017-01-21 19:03:47

Time to trim the fraud, waste, and abuse out of the DoD budget.

http://www.businessinsider.com/air-force-academy-general-foyer-2017-1

 
Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 19:52:19

The White House under Trump no longer has a Spanish option. Press 2 for Butthurtistan.

https://www.inverse.com/article/26697-white-house-website-trump

Whitehouse.gov just got 76 links shorter.

Comment by butters
2017-01-21 20:04:07

Democrats and their pandering.

What a sack of $hit the democrats are. Why Spanish? Why not Portuguese? I know some Portuguese, I would have enjoyed it.

Ab ki bar, Trump sarkar.

Comment by palmetto
2017-01-21 20:33:22

“Democrats and their pandering.”

Yah, it’s shame, too. For the longest time, I’ve had a Dem senator, a Republican senator and a Republican representative. And the only office I could get any help from for years, on the two occasions I needed it, was the Dem’s office. The other two were worthless and one of them, Rubio, still is. I did get lucky this election cycle because my Representative switched districts with another, who I like and who has a great staff.

As a citizen, the most important thing about your Congresscritters is their staff. They’re the ones who can help you or leave you to twist in the wind.

Comment by butters
2017-01-21 20:55:38

Establishment republicans are worse than your typical democrats.

#FACT

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Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2017-01-21 21:06:37

San Rafael, CA Housing Prices Crater 15% YoY On Skyrocketing Housing Inventory

http://www.movoto.com/san-rafael-ca/market-trends/

 
Comment by phony scandals
2017-01-21 21:45:04

Women’s March Organizer Recently Met Ex-Hamas Operative, Has Family Ties To Terror Group

CHUCK ROSS
Reporter
12:37 PM 01/21/2017

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/21/womens-march-organizer-recently-met-ex-hamas-operative-has-family-ties-to-terror-group/#ixzz4WSj0N7FG

Comment by TheCentralScrutinizer
2017-01-22 00:00:31

…therefor, we must ban women from this country for our safety!

Cooties are one thing, but terrorism is a bridge too far.

Comment by phony scandals
2017-01-22 08:38:46

You must know Russ

What were they marching for?

 
 
 
Comment by Senior Housing Analyst
2017-01-21 22:16:48

Brookline, MA Housing Prices Crater 16% YoY

http://www.movoto.com/brookline-ma/market-trends/

 
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