The Only Answer That Is Ever Provided
A report from the Press-Telegram in California. “Apartment buildings are a hot commodity in Southern California these days, with transactions tripling since the recession and sale prices steadily climbing. With higher prices come lower returns. To offset that, investors are looking for buildings with a significant upside — called a ‘value add’ in industry parlance. Josh Butler has been hearing from more and more renters in Long Beach in the same bind: A new owner has purchased their apartment complex with plans to renovate — and raise the rent. ‘We’ve seen advertisements that say, buy this property in Long Beach, you can raise the rent 75 to 90 percent,’ said Butler, executive director of Housing Long Beach, a tenants’ advocacy nonprofit.”
From The Coloradoan. “The wave of apartments under construction in Fort Collins belies the torrent that is about to come. Of the 5,200 units, 1,250 are student-oriented projects with bedrooms for about 5,500 students — a big number given Colorado State University is adding only a few hundred students per year. ‘There are plenty of units that are attainable to a lot of people here,’ said CSU regional economist Martin Shields. ‘If people are going to move into higher-end spots, they’ll hopefully leave places that other people can afford. More supply should lower prices.’”
“And, if it knocks down the prices of rental houses, which it should, Shields said, then that puts downward pressure on housing prices, too. Kit Brown, an associate in CBRE’s Northern Colorado office said that assumes all the projects in the pipeline get built. If they do, those with the best locations — Old Town, near campus and Harmony Road — and the best amenities will do well. ‘Those in more tertiary locations could take a hit in vacancies and that’s where discounted rents will hit,’ he said.”
The Boston Globe in Massachusetts. “The developer behind one of the biggest rental buildings under construction in Boston aims to modify its plans and put for-sale signs on about one-quarter of the units. HYM Investments recently told the Boston Planning & Development Agency that it’s decided to convert 118 apartments planned for a 45-story tower it is building atop the Government Center Garage into 55 condominiums. The shift comes amid signs of softening rents at the high end of Boston’s housing market as a string of new luxury apartment buildings compete for tenants.”
“That has some developers rethinking their apartment plans. National Development, for instance, converted a portion of its Ink Block project from rentals to condos.”
The Miami Herald in Florida. “Ron Shuffield, CEO of EWM Realty International, understands the perception of Miami Beach as being overvalued, but also thinks it’s somewhat misplaced. ‘People are thinking about expensive condos that have been recently built and are now selling for significantly less than people paid a couple of years ago,’ said Shuffield. ‘There’s an oversupply of brand new luxury condos that have dropped up to 25 percent in value. But those sales are not reflective of the overall Miami Beach market of single-family homes under the $2 million price range, which remains strong.’”
“‘Typically, if there’s less than six months of supply in the market, the seller has the advantage because there’s not that much to choose from. But Miami is definitely higher than six months. We have 34,000 condos in the pipeline in Miami-Dade County alone. There’s a ton of new condos being built at a time when the amount of existing condos on the market is already too high,’ said Peter Zalewski, a principal at the real estate consultancy Condo Vultures. ‘If you think of a teeter-totter, the buyers are up in the air on one side and sellers are weighing it down on the other side — and they’re eating Twinkies and Ho Hos, so they’re only going to get heavier.’”
The Houston Chronicle in Texas. “The explosion of multifamily construction that turned Houston into a renters’ market has fallen off dramatically and experts are predicting the generous concessions could cease in 2018 as the market methodically absorbs the tens of thousands of units developers have built in recent years. ‘Inside the Loop, you can find certain properties with three months free rent,’ Mark Taylor, senior managing director for the Houston office of CBRE said. But, he added, ‘Can you get that in a year? No way.’”
“In February, Paul Cummings moved into a one-bedroom apartment in a new complex in the Heights. ‘When I first started looking, they all offered a version of the same deal, which started at six weeks free,’ he said. ‘As they became a little more desperate, they said, ‘It’s two months now.’”
The Upstate Business Journal in North Carolina. “A survey taken in May by Real Data, a Charlotte, N.C.-based firm that tracks Southeastern apartment markets, found developers were building, or had proposed to build, another 1,373 apartments downtown, an increase of nearly 80 percent in the existing supply of 1,746. Real Data also found that an additional 168 downtown apartments were rented out between November of last year and May. At that rate, it would take four years for the downtown market to absorb all of the apartments under construction or planned.”
“Russ Davis, a Greenville apartment developer, said it’s not yet clear whether developers are building too many apartments downtown. But if they are, it wouldn’t be the first time developers had overbuilt an apartment market, he said. ‘As an industry, we don’t have the greatest discipline,’ said Davis, who developed two apartment complexes downtown and was a top executive for Trammell Crow Residential Services when it was the nation’s largest apartment developer. ‘We tend to build until the music stops and one or more people can’t find a chair.’”
“One group that apparently isn’t worried about a market collapse are the four out-of-state companies that together paid more than $155 million for four downtown Greenville apartment complexes over the past two years. The investors from Atlanta, Philadelphia, and Southern California acquired 752 units in separate deals between summer 2015 and fall 2016, according to transaction data from NAI Earle Furman, the commercial real estate brokerage.”
“Tony Bonitati, a broker in NAI Earle Furman’s multifamily division, said his firm expects more trading in apartment complexes at even higher per-unit prices, though it also anticipates a softening in rent growth as more apartments come on the market.”
From The Stranger in Washington. “Seattle Times’ breakdown of the current construction boom is depressing. We are building apartments like never before, but almost exclusively for the luxury class—9,000 apartments are set to open this year alone in Seattle, and none of them are for people who earn working-class and even middle-class wages. The average rent of an apartment is currently $2,400, and so you need ‘to make $96,000 a year’ not to be rent burdened.”
“Meaning, if you earn nearly $100,000 a year, 30 percent of your income will go to your apartment. Many who earn that kind of money are young and in the tech sector, and so also have college debt. After taxes, they are not sitting as pretty as you might think.”
“And then there are the reports and posts by market urbanists that promise we will be rewarded in the future when the weight of all of this construction finally breaks the back of high prices. These class of urbanists wittingly or unwittingly (I bet on the former) see the situation in neo-classical terms of pricing and complete markets. In this view, housing prices can be trusted. They represent the real world because ‘market prices are good indicators of rationally evaluated economic value’ (Robert Skidelsky, Keynes: The Return of the Master).”
“Market urbanists are not alone. The press is with them almost all of the time. In a recent story, ‘Downtown Seattle’s construction boom surges to new record, with no end in sight,’ Seattle Times business reporter Mike Rosenberg writes: ‘What is everybody building, and why? The short answer: [luxury] apartments, because so many people are moving here and want to live downtown.’ Prices, prices, prices. We might say it is the only answer that is ever provided. And we will keep giving this answer until it’s too late.”
The Miami report includes this:
“There are different sub-markets in South Florida, so it’s difficult to put them all in one basket when talking about investment value,” said Carlos Rosso, president of the Related Group’s condo development division. “Land values and construction costs have gone up so much that if someone wants to launch a new project, they have to come out at a higher price point. Whether or not this is the right time to launch is a different story.”
‘Rosso points out that when new luxury towers south of Fifth Street on South Beach went on the market 10 years ago, they sold at square-foot prices ranging from $500 (Icon) to $800 (Apogee).
“Today, those units are trading for $3,000 per square foot,” Rosso said. “Even I’ve been surprised at how much they’ve gone up in value over the long run.”
I’ve been pointing this out for years: these condo prices today are multiples higher than before the crash. If they’ve fallen 25%, isn’t that more than 2000-whatever?
“I’ve been pointing this out for years: these condo prices today are multiples higher than before the crash. If they’ve fallen 25%, isn’t that more than 2000-whatever?”
We’re in a bizarre situation. There is no talk about a housing bubble on any mainstream media outlet. Many areas are much higher than the previous peak. How high can it go? I have no idea.
One thing different this time around is volume. There are much fewer transactions as compared to the last bubble. I think it’s because this is largely a Wall St. speculative orgy in residential real estate, with a few small time flippers riding along.
Imagine trying to rent out something you paid $3,000/sq ft for?
I can’t imagine such idiocy. I’m trying to understand how long this can go on, and what the carnage is going to look like. It’s going to be concentrated much more in the Wall St./hedge fund/pension fund arena, with Uncle Sam on the hook for a lot of the losses. How will THAT bailout be sold?
Speaking of Idiocracy.
Woman shoots house (around the 1:45 mark):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWK3HfUvlrg
Awesome chimpout.
I’m not sure what that was about but I couldn’t watch it. They should take those kids away. That’s really bad.
Poverty like that has no solution, just a steady drain on society. I spent six years as a repo man, and the barrio and ghetto were my primary hunting grounds… put food on my table. Eventually I became weary of it all and returned to college.
Let’s assume Maine has nothing in common with Texas and that Salt Lake City has nothing in common with Miami and that Miami has nothing in common with the good ole boys in Northern Florida and that coke built Miami and that it didn’t build Salt Lake City or Albany and that Jorge Perez is one of the Kingpins in the Latin Builder’s Association of Miami that made Miami what it is today …and… that Coco Plum and The Falls could have incredible vacancy rates because the coke money was laundered there and the Reliance group run by Jorge likes selling floors to folks with cash and that this world is not the world of Ben Jones or Oregon or Alphonso Bedoya or Salt Lake City and that Miami is no longer Miami and that it’s become a terrain where the people living East of US1 live in a world that has its own underground infrastructure and rules of engagement, so that it doesn’t matter that something is sold for $3000/foot because the buyer purchased the floor, not just one unit, and when Trump calls Perez to build a wall separating us from Mexico, no asks who is Perez or how much money has been laundered by Trump and there’s a book here, but, it’s past the point of no return because business is business and all that matters is the “deal” and the fees associated with it.
“’There are different sub-markets in South Florida, so it’s difficult to put them all in one basket when talking about investment value,’” said Carlos Rosso, president of the Related Group’s condo development division.
Within that statement is everything you need to know and even allowed to know. And yes, it’s “difficult.”
That first paragraph, one long fantastic sentence, is an instant classic.
Let’s assume Maine has nothing in common with Texas and that Salt Lake City has nothing in common with Miami and that Miami has nothing in common with the good ole boys in Northern Florida and that coke built Miami…
And yet none of these factors stopped things from crashing the last time or the time before that.
Yes, we all know there is massive corruption, fraud, money laundering, and other assorted types of crime. But these things always contain the seeds of their own destruction.
And no, Miami isn’t special. It’s not “different there”.
The folks at the Federal Reserve have the very power to print money, and even they can’t stop the laws of physics from operating.
“new luxury towers on South Beach on the market 10 years ago sold at square-foot prices ranging from $500 (Icon) to $800 (Apogee). Today, those units are trading for $3,000 per square foot.”
That is MENTAL. Up 275-500% in 10 years. So we need a 73-83% correction just to return to price per sq ft from the TOP of the last bubble? Mental mental mental. MENTAL.
I just got back from an extended trip to south Florida, my first time down there for awhile. I drove on I-95 past downtown Miami and was shocked by the number of construction cranes. Because local drivers are notoriously erratic, I had to keep my eyes on the road, and couldn’t count all the cranes, but I conservatively would estimate that at least 15 towers over thirty stories are under construction.
It reminded me of 2006.
And another thing: Broward County has the most alienating suburban sprawl I have ever seen, worthy of an entire issue of Psychology Today. It’s almost impossible to find a critic, though; I googled various sprawl-related terms and almost every article I found praised the “community” to be found in places like Weston and Pembroke Pines. You’ve got to be kidding me. If your car broke down it would be like being stuck on the moon.
Way back in the early 1990s, when I lived in another part of the country, I had a job interview in Miami. I was staying in Tampa with a friend, misjudged the distance and traffic between the two cities, got a speeding ticket, and was an hour late, which essentially ended my chance at the job. I’ve occasionally wondered what my life would have looked like had I been on time.
“Way back in the early 1990s, when I lived in another part of the country, I had a job interview in Miami. I was staying in Tampa with a friend, misjudged the distance and traffic between the two cities, got a speeding ticket, and was an hour late, which essentially ended my chance at the job. I’ve occasionally wondered what my life would have looked like had I been on time.”
Heh. Swap out Boston (Tampa) and NYC(Miami) and that was me in the late 90s. Really expensive speeding ticket too!
Hit the nail on the head about Broward County
This puff piece was from Forbes in 2014:
With their younger son off finishing college and their older one out on his own, Linda and Lee Sussman found their four-bedroom house near downtown Boca Raton, Fla. too quiet. But the couple, now in their mid-50s, didn’t want to downsize to, say, a luxury condo. Instead, they sold the old house for $430,000 and moved last year into a $731,000 newly constructed home with a backyard pool overlooking the lake at Parkland Golf & Country Club in the northernmost reaches of Broward County.
“The backyard is phenomenal. We see water, wrapped by water all around. It’s like being on a peninsula,” marvels Linda, a retired art teacher who appreciates a good view. Sure, Lee, a golf-loving financial planner, has to drive an extra 7 miles each way to his office. But the supermarket is close by, and it’s just a short stroll to the Parkland clubhouse, with its spa, restaurant, lounges, tennis courts, pools and fountains. “It feels like a Disney resort,” Linda says. Get this: At 3,300 square feet, the empty nesters’ new home is bigger than the one where they raised two sons.
“Nobody moves to a smaller house,” crows Robert “Bob” Toll, the 73-year-old cofounder and executive chairman of luxury home builder Toll Brothers, which sold the Sussmans their new spread. At least not if Toll can help it.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephanefitch/2014/12/10/big-houses-and-sprawling-suburbs-are-back-and-better-than-ever/#27620df2ce32
“…Broward County has the most alienating suburban sprawl I have ever seen….”
Give it time. It’s a work in progress.There is one city now that sprawls from Palm Beach to Key West. The same builders, same chain of stores….
‘We’ve seen advertisements that say, buy this property in Long Beach, you can raise the rent 75 to 90 percent’
OK, why would they hand this off to a stranger?
‘Apartment buildings are a hot commodity in Southern California these days, with transactions tripling since the recession and sale prices steadily climbing’
http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/?p=10149
‘After several years of heightened growth, multifamily rents in San Francisco have tempered. Rents have reached a point where even highly paid workers can’t afford the premium prices. Transaction activity has slowed in 2017, with only $300 million in properties trading in the first five months of the year. This comes after last year’s cycle high, when more than $3 billion in assets changed hands.’
‘With more than 15,000 units under construction’
OK, why would they hand this off to a stranger ??
LOL…Exactly Ben…Same thing happens with the $99. seminar…Idiots flock to these top learn of some secret way of making millions on flipping or investing in real estate…Nobody gives much thought on why one would sell a secret that can make millions for a $99. entry fee…
Steve Forbes said it best: “You make more money selling advice than following it”.
One can never underestimate the number of stupid people out there.
Yup. Tony Robbins has this figured out.
You can add college education to that list these days, the way they are handing out degrees.
On a different note, I was surprised to hear from friends that their nieces and nephews can’t get into engineering in either the UC or CAL system because of the demand. I suggested that they are better off studying at a 2 year school and getting the credits / top grades and then transfer. Lot cheaper.
But, there are no quality engineering graduates. Sometimes I wonder whether the professors care to teach the students anything.
From what I have heard, unless you’re a member of a protected class it can be supremely difficult to be admitted into the UC system. And even once admitted, you still have to compete to be allowed into upper division on the more popular majors.
From what I have heard about Cal State it’s much easier to get in, but good luck finishing in 4 years as they don’t offer enough classes.
“‘We’ve seen advertisements that say, buy this property in Long Beach, you can raise the rent 75 to 90 percent’
OK, why would they hand this off to a stranger?”
Simple answer: Because they’re lying. Same goes for Jingle Mail. He brags on this blog about his huge returns on his rental properties, yet he’s selling them. If he was getting such a great return, he’d never sell them.
https://quotefancy.com/quote/1458160/Paul-Walker-Sometimes-people-count-their-chickens-before-they-hatch
Exactly. Exit the bubble, pay off the debt, Pay the fees, cash in hand or you didn’t “get” anything.
I don’t know about that. For one, the returns are presumably in part to his own managerial input. Sounds like he is ready to retire from this part of his career.
Second, he seems to acknowledge the capital gains gravy train may not go on forever.
You’re just looking for a free meal.
Jungle Male is one guy, not a company. Sure, I guess he could hand over the rental contracts to a property company and keep appreciation and cash flow going when he’s retired out of state, but who wants that Sword of Damocles hanging over their head all the time? If he can live on the money from cashing out entirely and live free and clear, then bless him.
‘As an industry, we don’t have the greatest discipline…We tend to build until the music stops and one or more people can’t find a chair.’
What’s funny about this was a quote from an apartment guy I posted recently. He said something like, “well the lenders will slow things down before it gets too bad.” Only they didn’t.
Last quarter the CEO of ProLogis noted a few markets where they were concerned about overbuilding of industrial. However, he also noted that information flows quickly and capital is more disciplined.
In our office, we laughed…sure…disciplined developers, disciplined investors.
However, this quarter, he noted that the industrial starts in those markets were down meaningfully…in that case, markets seemed to respond to oversupply.
It is worth noting the industrial has a much shorter development cycle than multi-family…it is able to react more quickly. We’ll see if the supposed discipline shown on the industrial side also occurs for multifamily.
Not holding my breath.
Because “real journalists” hate freedom of thought:
https://i.redd.it/gxenicmr8dbz.jpg
LOLZ
“real journalists” hate freedom of thought
I doubt that. Even if they do, they couldn’t do anything about it.
I don’t know, a lot of people sure buy into the absurd narratives they push.
“Existing-home sales fall in June as prices soar to fresh record”
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/existing-home-sales-fall-in-june-as-market-retrenches-after-hot-spring-season-2017-07-24
You can ask $50k for your 10 year old Honda Civic but where is the buyer at that price?
So it is with all depreciating assets like houses.
‘One group that apparently isn’t worried about a market collapse are the four out-of-state companies that together paid more than $155 million for four downtown Greenville apartment complexes over the past two years. The investors from Atlanta, Philadelphia, and Southern California acquired 752 units in separate deals between summer 2015 and fall 2016.’
‘Tony Bonitati, a broker in NAI Earle Furman’s multifamily division, said his firm expects more trading in apartment complexes at even higher per-unit prices, though it also anticipates a softening in rent growth as more apartments come on the market’
IMO Yellen bucks looking for a place to die is a real phenomenon.
‘it would take four years for the downtown market to absorb all of the apartments under construction or planned’
Yellen bucks going to die is going to be the name of my next band. It explains the ~800 crypto currencies as well.
Interesting:
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/07/24/business/ward-condos-developer-offers-incentives/?HSA=c2b6859aab0ad3969b12239aaf479f47b915c626
Those wood buildings in the foreground were “Ward Warehouse” which were eclectic shops and eateries. Those are going to be demolished for yet another condo tower. But if they can’t sell the other two… hmmm
‘lenders will slow things down . . . ‘
thats ripe. since when do commission / fee based industries ever voluntarily slow down their income stream over something as pesky as morals or ethics?!
take no prisoners. coffee is for closers
(btw, prolific postings today due to minor but annoying injury has me sidelined in my Archie Bunker chair. did such a “good” job repainting pool w/Leslies epoxy paint that I slipped down the 3 steps lickety split after 2 weeks curing. boy howdy that stuff is like ice. especially after brush painting 30,000 gal pool. yep, brush painted!
slick-smooth as ice but as mentioned, you WILL respect the finished product. haha . .. “product”)
This is where the government backing encouraged loans that shouldn’t have been made. Jeebus this is a rich persons game. Why are we subsidizing this stuff?
“Jeebus this is a rich persons game. Why are we subsidizing this stuff?”
They’re picking winners and losers, showering insiders with big dollars. If somebody pressed them on this, they’d probably try to conjure up some bogus story about a wealth effect or something.
“Why are we subsidizing this stuff?”
Because they have the power and we don’t?
Because you are stupid.
And you will remain stupid and you will like it.
You can be Albert Einstein and be 100% aware of what is going on, but since you don’t make the rules there is nothing you can do about it. All you can do is do your best to not be personally trapped in the spider’s web.
“California Is America’s Poverty State”
http://www.laweekly.com/news/california-is-americas-poverty-state-7380756
Poverty, air pollution, illegal immigration, overpriced housing, traffic, crime.
Yeah it’s a real paradise there…
I could never live in a state that I could afford.
Are you on the government teat?
gov teat!? oh HELL NO!
in fact, I think out of many houses on my street myhousehold is one of the few that do NOT receive any form of gov check.
I guess I am. I took a stringer of yellow perch out of Federal Water this afternoon.
expect a wet team on your doorstep to recover those wet fish.
it will happen like this.
you will be in your driveway hosing down your boat & trailer. fish cooler in the back. kids putting away the Garcias. a white truck with men wearing brown shirts and green pants will silently arrive. you will reach for your fishing license.
they will panic & use bear spray. your neighbor will curse then throw his can of PBR with deadly aim taking out a side mirror. backup arrives by air, land & sea.
you will be hooked, booked & cooked, then tell your story on the Jimmy Fallon Kimmell Ellen Harvey Show. You will option the movie rights to Ron Howard starring Tom Hanks as Forest Gump: Life is Like A Tackle Box of Chocolates.
Once they’re told that the fish were caught on Mitchell Garcia 330s, all will be forgiven.
And the legislature just voted to raise our gasoline taxes over 70 cents per gallon. Even the turncoat Republicans went along with it.
That’s in addition to two half cent sales tax increases in LA County.
Working class and minorities hardest hit.
I checked out some DVDs from the library the other day: Taste of California. It’s a 2004-2005 series of 30-minute puff-piece travelogues featuring the inns and restaurants and of course wineries of Cali: Tahoe, San Fran, Sonoma, Napa, Calistoga, Tulare, San Diego, Costa Mesa, etc. Great food, cheese shops, vineyards, tasting rooms, hot springs, B&Bs, vinyards. Everything looked so clean and quaint and Disneyfied…
And then I come to HBB and see the reality.
We used to live in the Morro Bay area of the central coast. The grocery stores had a great deli and produce sections albeit expensive. Always nice fresh air from the ocean, and very quiet evenings of star filled skies. It was great living, and we miss it. However, you could climb in the car and drive inland twenty minutes, and the stores were packed with obese slobs buying cases of soda pop and chips with their snap cards, and kids milling about like ducklings. No deli and aged produce displays of soft apples, potatoes, etc., yuck!
It really boils down to the neighborhood you can afford.
‘Inside the Loop, you can find certain properties with three months free rent,’ Mark Taylor, senior managing director for the Houston office of CBRE said. But, he added, ‘Can you get that in a year? No way.’
You’re probably right Mark. In a year you’ll be giving away 6 months.
Inside the loop, rents are as high as California.
“Gas Prices Keep Falling”
http://www.chron.com/business/energy/article/Gas-prices-keep-falling-no-end-in-sight-11277152.php
Remember….. Nothing accelerates the economy, creates jobs and raises the standard of living like falling prices to dramatically lower and more affordable levels. Nothing.
Live in people’s rep of ca
Restaurants full
I guess for sale signs r verboten in Pacific heights
Feinstein is roughing it w a house that covers so whole block
“There are currently about 16 million single-family rental homes in the United States, about 5 million more than before the housing crisis. While large institutional investors bought thousands of distressed properties and set up a new asset class of rentals, they still make up barely 3 percent of the single-family rental market. The vast majority of rental homes are still owned by small to medium-sized, individual investors, and more novices want to get in on the currently strong demand.”
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/14/landlord-alert-new-index-aims-to-take-the-risk-out-of-rental-investing.html
“recently told the Boston Planning & Development Agency that it’s decided to convert 118 apartments planned for a 45-story tower it is building atop the Government Center Garage into 55 condominiums. ”
Rut-roh Shaggy. Whats the plan for the other two major towers they are building, with retail/restaurants, next to Td garden (Boston Garden)? Then there’s the canceled tower project for Copley Square. Lol. Cracks are showing….