June 9, 2010

There Is No Natural Landing Point In California

Bloomberg reports on California. “Sales of houses and condominiums in San Francisco jumped 50 percent in the first quarter from a year earlier and the median price rose 5.4 percent to $685,000, according to a multiple listings analysis by Terradatum Inc. Hyuck Jae Lee and his wife beat a dozen other suitors last month for a three-bedroom, 1,400-square-foot house in San Francisco’s Inner Richmond. The couple won by offering $875,000, or 14 percent above the asking value, after losing a nearby home that sold at that price. ‘We feel like we’re stepping into our San Francisco life,’ said the Silicon Valley engineer.”

“‘San Francisco has conditions of very restricted supply and lots of things that can push demand: an attractive climate, innovative economy and high quality of life,’ said Harvard University economist Edward Glaeser, who has studied U.S. housing bubbles. A city such as Houston, with an abundance of land, ‘tethers prices to reality,’ while San Francisco’s geographic barriers and global appeal keep values high, Glaeser said. ‘In supply-constrained and highly attractive markets there is no natural landing point for prices,’ he said.”

The Mountain View Voice. “The Santa Clara County Assessor’s Office announced $21.4 billion in property value reductions on approximately 118,000 properties in the county. In comparison to this time last year, 90,000 properties received assessment reductions totaling $17.2 billion. Last year, the average reduction for a single-family home was $185,000. This year the average reduction is $175,000. County assessor Larry Stone said the figures represent by and large the values of residential properties and that a review of the value of commercial and industrial properties has yet to be done.”

“‘We’re seeing an erosion of property values in some of the higher-end more established areas,’ Stone said.”

The Mercury News. “In the East Bay, banks own more than 10,000 homes, only a fraction of which are listed for sale. Another 20,000 are in foreclosure, headed toward bank ownership, according to RealtyTrac. For the moment, banks are still paying the higher taxes associated with the original values. ‘There is no question government services at all levels are going to suffer because of this,’ said Contra Costa County Assessor Gus Kramer. ‘(Banks) are not dumping all these properties on the market at once. If they spoon-feed them out, it just spreads out the pain a little bit longer.’”

“The root of the problem is the drop in property values. In April, Bay Area homebuyers paid an average of $370,000 — just over half the region’s peak of $665,000 in the summer of 2007, according to MDA Dataquick. In some areas, particularly in East Contra Costa County…many homes are listed for sale at less than a third of the price they sold at a few years ago. A new wave of foreclosures may be on the horizon, said Alameda County Assessor Ron Thomsen, as interest rates jump upward on another set of adjustable rate mortgages.”

“‘We’re going to have the same situation that we had a year ago,’ he said.”

The Union. “Median sale prices for houses and condominiums in Nevada County dropped to $303,000 in April, down from the median in April 2009, which was $320,000, DataQuick reported. Western county prices continue to be depressed by the sale of bank-foreclosed properties, said Gene Lehman, broker at Century 21 Davis in Grass Valley. ‘Foreclosures were closing at a rate of less than $225,000 in median price’ in the western county in April, Lehman said. But local foreclosures have ‘dried up’ recently, added Linda Kaneko of ERA Cornerstone Realty, though agents do expect to see more in the future.”

The Monterey County Herald. “A short sale of real estate can be lengthy and frustrating for agents, buyers and sellers, real estate agents were told at a seminar for 25 agents sponsored by Sotheby’s. It’s also the most common scenario for home sales in Monterey County these days. Of 322 pending sales on the Peninsula, 153 are short sales and another 44 are foreclosures, Monterey County Association of Realtors figures show. The numbers include Marina, Monterey-Salinas Highway, Carmel Valley, Carmel Highlands, Carmel, Pacific Grove, Monterey, Pebble Beach and Seaside.”

“In Salinas, the Salinas Valley and South County combined, 87 percent of the pending sales are distressed — 544 short sales and 176 foreclosures out of 828 pending sales. Another reason there are more short sales than foreclosures is that ‘the banks are holding back inventory’ on homes they’ve foreclosed on, said Janet Reilly, Sotheby’s managing broker.”

The LA Daily News. “While the number of foreclosures in the San Fernando Valley jumped in April compared with a year ago, the number of homeowners behind on their mortgage payments slowed dramatically, a research center said. Default notices have fallen on a monthly basis for five consecutive months. Actual foreclosures increased 59 percent to 567 in April from 359 a year ago and rose 12 percent from 507 in March.”

“Economist William Roberts, director of the San Fernando Valley Economic Research Center at California State University, Northridge, said lenders do seem reluctant to dump large numbers of repossessed properties back on the market. ‘It’s like there is a huge pile of foreclosures in a back office and they are keeping the door locked because they don’t want them to get out,’ Roberts said. ‘It would hurt their balance sheet.’”

“Some 405,000 Los Angeles County homeowners will have up to 1,800 reasons to smile this year following the latest reassessment of property values. The average annual tax bill for affected homeowners will fall between $1,500 and $1,800, county Assessor Robert Quon said. Similar reviews done last year and in 2008 resulted in lower property taxes for more than 330,000 homeowners.”

“For single-family homes, the average value reduction was $162,000. For condos, the average reduction was $133,000. After peaking in February 2007, the median price of a home in the county dropped from $616,230 to $295,100 in March 2009. Since that time, the median price of a home has fluctuated and, in April, stood at $338,970. ‘What you are seeing is an industry that looks like it’s looking for a bottom, but we are not willing to say it’s there yet,’ said Jack Kyser, the founding economist at the Kyser Center for Economic Research at the county Economic Development Corp.”

“Quon noted that nearly all of those homeowners whose property values were reduced in previous years will either see the lower assessment continue this year, or, in some cases, reduced even further. Quon said most of the people who will see large property tax reductions this year were those who bought their homes from June 30, 2008, to June 30, 2009.”

The Desert Sun. “When Joseph Anfuso came to work for Florsheim Homes in Stockton in October 2006, he saw early signs of a housing industry on the verge of its breaking point. Three years later, Stockton was described by national media as the foreclosure capital of the nation. But Anfuso said the company has made gains. It reduced prices by 60 percent, putting them in the low $200,000s as other home builders held tightly to the $450,000 range. ‘From the day I shut my car door, the first thing I did was lower prices,’ he said.”

“Now, the company is buying bank-owned and bankrupt neighborhoods. One project it selected was Santoro Estates of Cathedral City. The neighborhood of homes, which were 65 to 95 percent complete and while idled created an eyesore with flocks of pigeons, bent garage doors, broken windows and dying lawns, are about three weeks away from being finished out and landscaped. ‘We’ve sold 19 of the 32 homes,’ he said. ‘Our goal is to be completely sold out by the end of the year, and we’re well on pace.’”

The Bakersfield Californian. “Vacant houses are undesirable for a lot of reasons. It’s in a city’s best interest, then, to do what it can to prevent unoccupied homes, or at least mitigate their negative effects. One community has taken a different, more proactive route that targets new construction. McFarland, a city of about 12,000 in northern Kern County, won’t issue professional homebuilders a building permit until they’ve landed a committed buyer.”

“But Matt Towery, owner of Bakersfield homebuilder Towery Homes, said he doesn’t like the inflexibility of the rule. ‘As much as I think you’ve got to have some regulation, that goes too far,’ he said. ‘I can tell you there were some crazy things going on in the boom years with all the stated income loans and all that, but we’ve gone from one wild extreme to the other.’”

The Union Tribune. “It pays to rent — not buy — for most people in San Diego County, says Trulia. ‘We’re not suggesting that it’s unwise to buy in these areas, though,’ said Trulia co-founder Pete Flint, ‘just that it’s significantly more expensive than renting.’”

“Robert Pinnegar, executive director of the San Diego County Apartment Association, said he was not surprised by the findings. ‘We’re a coastal California city,’ Pinnegar said, ’so it’s always going to be more expensive to buy than to rent.’”

The Orange County Register. “Yes, Newport affordability sounds silly, but 92663 had a median selling price of $962,500 in the first quarter — cheapest of the six ZIPs around Newport. This year’s sales momentum in Newport Beach 92663 did come at a price — fat price cuts, that is. Buyers may pay more, but owners are getting maybe half what they could have at the boom’s peak. ‘On the average, homes sold at about 90 percent of the most recent list price but only 71 percent of the original list price,’ says real estate agent Andrew Karigan at Prudential California Realty of 2010 pricing trends ‘So prices have definitely come down.’”

“Real estate agent Zachary Evanish points to the sale of a home on the Newport peninsula as a prime example of what it takes to move a home in 92663: Four discounts over 10 months — from the original $3.25 million listing to a sale at $1.9 million. ‘The increased volume points to the fact that the discrepancy between buyers and sellers has narrowed. The narrowing has come from sellers being more realistic and buyers being more optimistic,’ Evanish says.”

The Voice of San Diego. “San Diego Unified school board member and county supervisor candidate Shelia Jackson lost her home to foreclosure in 2007, she confirmed in an interview. Jackson owed $15,336.86 in past due payments on the home when she received a notice of default in June 2007, records show. Five months later, her lender repossessed the home. Jackson purchased the property for $255,000 in July 2002. She then refinanced the property four times over the next four years, the last for $467,500 in November 2006.”

“Jackson said she “did not have the finances to keep the property” after the state cut funding for her teaching and administrative position with a math program. She said she couldn’t find another local job to supplement her district stipend (the school board is a part-time job that pays $1,500 a month) and Navy pension.

“‘I decided to sacrifice and refinance my home to keep myself afloat,’ Jackson said.”

“Jackson said her foreclosure shouldn’t affect her campaign. ‘There are several people in this economic climate who have gone through that process,’ she said. ‘If no one who went through that process was qualified, then a lot of people couldn’t run.’”




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110 Comments »

Comment by CA renter
2010-06-09 02:34:14

The LA Daily News. “While the number of foreclosures in the San Fernando Valley jumped in April compared with a year ago, the number of homeowners behind on their mortgage payments slowed dramatically, a research center said. Default notices have fallen on a monthly basis for five consecutive months. Actual foreclosures increased 59 percent to 567 in April from 359 a year ago and rose 12 percent from 507 in March.”
——————————–

I’m wary of these claims: “the number of homeowners behind on their mortgage payments slowed dramatically.”

There’s ample reason to believe the defaults are actually level or rising…but that NODs are not being recorded because lenders **are trying to hide the numbers** and not filing NODs for many months or years after a borrower has stopped paying.

The govt/PTB has so fouled up the market with all their fraud and deceit that we can hardly accept as fact anything that we are being told to believe.

Until I see signs of a much more transparent market with far less intervention, my cynical side will win out.

——————

Been trying to counsel a friend whose house is being foreclosed on this week (if not for a last minute postponement by the lender). It’s sad to see people going through this, but they’ve done so many things to put themselves in this position. We’ll see if they actually get foreclosed on or if their lender pushes through a new modification.

Comment by Sean
2010-06-09 04:57:36

While it is easy to laugh at other peoples misfortune, I do feel bad for the kids that have to go through this. They get a nice house with the big yard and have new friends, now they have it taken away from them. Most may be too young to understand what is going on.

But as a father myself it is my job to take care of my son, whether it is his health, mental state or our families financial state. Why people risk their kids future on some silly investment is beyond me. I know, I know……15 percent returns per year on that mini-mansion was too hard to pass up.

Comment by toast on the coast 90803
2010-06-09 14:47:59

My neighbor just sold their home for $975,000 and netted $0. He originally tried to get $1,350,000 a year ago. At the close he ended up with nothing, owed past taxes and hoa dues. He look defeated when they were moving and I felt very sad for the kids.
However, they did drive off in the Porche and the Range Rover.

Comment by DebtinNation
2010-06-10 22:49:25

Yeah, the heart bleeds. Although I feel a little worse for people living in mud huts and no running water.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-06-09 05:56:53

“The govt/PTB has so fouled up the market with all their fraud and deceit that we can hardly accept as fact anything that we are being told to believe.”

Given the dessication of trust in the banking system, it’s rather as though they enjoy shooting themselves in the foot!

Comment by In Montana
2010-06-09 08:51:47

“dessication of trust”? What praytell is that?

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2010-06-09 09:52:37

It’s when trust dries up and blows away.

Lovely turn of phrase, prof. Was that original, or did you borrow it from someone?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-06-09 19:20:10

Early morning highly-caffeinated inspiration at its best!

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2010-06-09 10:28:20

When they dessicate meat the result is jerky….

As in there’s a dessication of trust in banks since they are so jerky.

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Comment by Rancher
2010-06-09 09:57:43

What a great phrase and turn of words. May I
borrow it?

Comment by Lesser Fool
2010-06-09 10:43:13

Before you borrow it you should fix the spelling.

It’s not dessicate, it’s desiccate.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2010-06-09 19:24:41

Good catch. I actually don’t know if I ever saw that word in print before…

 
Comment by DebtinNation
2010-06-10 22:50:55

Better than the defecation of trust, although I think a lot of that’s happened as well.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2010-06-09 19:21:25

Of course — any memes I propagate on this blog are free for dissemination — even those regarding dessication. :-)

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Comment by Pat McGroin
2010-06-09 17:28:36

Not much change in new NODs here in San Digo County. There have been 760 new NODs issued so far this week (and it’s only Wednesday)…pretty much on par (maybe even slightly higher) than previous weeks since I subscribed to foreclosure.com in March.

I, too, am highly suspicious of these supposed “news” articles claiming that the housing market is improving in this area. It’s not. I see MANY lowered prices on the MLS…and only a fraction of the foreclosed homes have even shown up on the MLS thus far. It’s pretty clear from my observations that the “shadow inventory” is HUGE in SD County.

The fact that the release of foreclosed homes onto the market is being tightly controlled is the ONLY reason that prices aren’t plummeting right now. Instead, the banks (in collaboration with the Fed) are orchestrating a “slow bleed.”

Comment by elvismcduf
2010-06-09 22:00:28

Dude you are so right. I’m the fedex driver in Fallbrook. And the flood is coming (controlled bleed though). I would venture to guess that 20% of our business is from “gtf-out notices”. This week in particular, wachovia, wells, boa and a lot of these notices go to already vacated homes.

 
 
 
Comment by Natalie
2010-06-09 03:54:35

“San Diego Unified school board member and county supervisor candidate Shelia Jackson lost her home to foreclosure in 2007, she . . . purchased the property for $255,000 in July 2002. She then refinanced the property four times over the next four years, the last for $467,500 in November 2006.” “‘I decided to sacrifice and refinance my home to keep myself afloat,’ Jackson said.”

Another story of a refi’er claiming to live a life characterized by sacrifice. It chills me to the bone. Only borrowing $50,000 a year against your home before going into default and leaving the tab for someone else is not a sacrifice. Whatever happened to selling your home and moving into an efficiency, or better yet moving into your mom’s basement? Have housing scum really convinced themselves they are wearing a crown of thorns? At least she didn’t say say something about being taken advantage of by evil bankers or assaulted by the derivatives and securitization boogeymen. It is people like this that are the true monsters.

Comment by DinOR
2010-06-09 09:39:21

Natalie,

I can’t agree fast enough! Somewhere along the line we decided that we’d ridden the FB’s hard enough long enough and moved “upstream”. I suppose it seemed logical enough and it’s appropriate to go where the investigation takes you when you’re trying to get to the bottom of things?

But somehow, that loop got closed. We couldn’t find our way back out if ‘tried’! Now multiply Ms. Jackson X a coupla’ million? Hint, when you’re making more by re-fi’ing your home than you do from your day job.., it should tell you something.

She kept herself “afloat” alright ( WaMu didn’t )

 
Comment by Wickedheart
2010-06-09 09:46:03

I call BS on that one. Her mortgage payment even with property taxes and insurance was waaay less than the rent she paid in Scripps Ranch. She’s full of it.

Comment by DinOR
2010-06-09 10:00:56

Wickedheart,

I’m not that familiar w/ the area but I’ll take you at your word. The clearest example of why she’s full of it lies in the fact that she does a whopper of a re-fi in Nov ‘06 and barely 6 mos. later the poor ( dumb/EVIL! ) lender is forced to send her out a NOD.

Mindful, this is still in the very… early going! Most mkts. had barely peaked by mid-’07. Pretty obvious this was eq. skim at it’s best and if anything, if she can stiff the school dist’s lenders they way she’s stiffed her ‘own’ I’d say she’s more than qualified!

Comment by Wickedheart
2010-06-09 12:12:40

Rent isn’t cheap in San Diego and Scripps Ranch is one of the nicer and of course more expensive areas. Her home was in SE San Diego hence the cheap *cough* price $255k. Her mortgage payment, taxes and insurance would run about $1600. Rent in Scripps ranch would be more than that.

The biggest run up in prices (and of course the biggest price drops) have been in the more ghetto areas. Her house was a just like a little money tree.

The SDUSD’s finances are in horrible shape and the school board is dysfunctional.

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Comment by SDGreg
2010-06-09 21:00:02

“Mindful, this is still in the very… early going! Most mkts. had barely peaked by mid-’07.”

San Diego prices peaked in mid 2005.

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Comment by DinOR
2010-06-10 06:57:28

SDGreg,

With the benefit of hindsight, that’s now very easy to say. And certainly ‘we’ were calling a Top. But that had absolutely -nothing- to do in Re-Fi World where the juggernaut plodded on!

I struggle w/ that. In ‘all’ markets. For each there was a differing heyday for builders, sellers and equity skimmers. In addition to blaming her for what looks ( by all accounts ) as nothing more than a strategic default, thank Ms. Jackson for the wonderful affordability in SD and of course the equally wonderful tax bills!

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Eddie
2010-06-09 04:01:52

A friend of mine and his wife bought a house this week in Walnut Creek. $1.2M. It’s an amazing looking house, at least from the pictures. Awesome pool. I was actually surprised they got it that cheap given the location and the size of the house.

It was listed for $1.7M.

Comment by michael
2010-06-09 10:37:34

can you tell us their gross annual income and what they had to put down?

just curious.

Comment by Eddie
2010-06-09 11:37:01

No clue what they put down. I estimate combined they make 350k or so.

 
 
Comment by Lesser Fool
2010-06-09 10:46:01

Yawn. All it has done is bring down the comps. Walnut Creek, sheesh. However I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re pulling in 400k combined. The Bay Area is like that.

 
Comment by Jerry
2010-06-09 11:24:55

Nest year it will be $800,000. Good thing, RE taxes will be lower in the coming years!

 
 
Comment by Sean
2010-06-09 04:51:00

She then refinanced the property four times over the next four years, the last for $467,500 in November 2006.”

It’s like a Jos. A. Bank sale - Buy three ReFi’s, Get the fourth one free!!!

Comment by Wickedheart
2010-06-09 09:08:32

Sheila Jackson is a moron just like most of the people who have served the San Diego Unified School District’s board of the last 10 years. I think this is particularly funny:

“On a flyer supporting her county candidacy, she cites her oversight of the district’s $1.2 billion budget and $2.1 billion in facility renovations as one of her accomplishments.”

She considers that an accomplishment??? The district’s finances are a complete mess, just like hers. Sheesh, actually the whole district is a complete mess. And the handling of the Prop MM funds, LMAO, the district lost millions with delayed construction and mismanagement. They had to bring in some retired navy guy run it and fix the mess. Yeah, Sheila did a real bang up job there.

Sheila was a lousy teacher and a lousy teacher/administrator. She didn’t lose her job, when her resource position was eliminated she didn’t want to go back to the classroom.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-06-09 05:43:46

“There Is No Natural Landing Point In California”

There is a ginormous ocean just off the edge of the state, and it appears many Californians have landed themselves under water.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-06-09 05:54:09

“‘We’re a coastal California city,’ Pinnegar said, ’so it’s always going to be more expensive to buy than to rent.’”

And let me guess the reason: Is it because everyone wants to live here?

Comment by Curt
2010-06-09 06:05:52

And let me guess the reason: Is it because everyone wants to live here?

No, they’re running out of land!

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-06-09 06:09:21

No — that is San Francisco. There is plenty of buildable land in San Diego County, provided you don’t mind the occasional evacuation order when a Santa Ana fire comes roaring through your neighborhood.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2010-06-09 06:49:23

Of course those are reasons why people may be willing to pay more to live there, neither explains why people would be willing to pay more to purchase instead of renting.

Comment by Jim A.
2010-06-09 08:18:35

Which, at its root, is why I was SURE we were in a bubble. The cost of owning, using a standard 30yr FRM rose greatly during the bubble compared to the cost of renting. Really, the only explanation available was increased prevelance of riskeir loans.

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Comment by Rental Watch
2010-06-09 08:57:53

Well before the bubble, it was more expensive to own than rent. There are only select moments in time where the reverse has been true. In some parts of the US, it is cheaper to rent than own, indicating to me at least that those particular markets are probably at, if not past the bottom.

For me, it would still cost me more than 2x my rent to own the house I occupy–more room to slide, but will never get to the point where it is cheaper to rent than own.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2010-06-09 09:57:12

Well it’s usually more expensive to own than rent in the first few years. But with a 30yr FRM and inflation working it’s magic on rents, it’s usually cheaper to be paying a 20 year old mortgage than to rent an equivalent property. So you do indeed expect that the costs of purchasing a home would be more than the equivalant rent, in an anticipation that the property will be owned long enough to see some benefit. But during the bubble, the costs of ownership rose MUCH more than the equivalant rents. Now a case can be made that this would be a rational response to an anticipation of greatly increased inflation. But it coincides with a pattern of increasingly crappy loan underwriting and an increase in the percentage risker TYPES (Option Arms, teaser rates, etc.) of loans.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2010-06-09 10:02:02

I think we are in agreement.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2010-06-09 11:59:40

I suspect that I was being insufficiently clear in my earlier comment. And just to pound my point into the ground, I DON’T believe that borrowers were willing to pay more because they were anticipating high inflation, the bizarre increase in the percentage of ARMS in a low interest rate enviroment pretty conclusively argues against that notion. But at a conceptual level, that COULD be a rational reason for the cost of ownership to move relative to the cost of renting.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2010-06-09 12:21:00

Yes. I understand your point. The way I see it, the almost free nature of money increased demand at every point of the supply curve, increasing prices across the board.

This is the opposite of the situation post Lehman, that lack of any capital other than GSA loans, and lack of capital above conforming rates, and negative psychology decreased demand at all levels after the crash below the “norm”. The need to transact forced sales in markets where “owners” were weaker, which forced those markets to find their bottom quickly. The lack of a need to transact in the higher end markets is keeping those prices sticky on the way down.

The shadow inventory is going to prolong the correction process. But ultimately, as long as funny money doesn’t come back, we will get back to pre-bubble norms in time (norms in relation to income levels vs. payments vs. price of homes, etc.).

 
Comment by DebtinNation
2010-06-10 23:05:23

“But with a 30yr FRM and inflation working it’s magic on rents, it’s usually cheaper to be paying a 20 year old mortgage than to rent an equivalent property.”

One thing that occurs but may not make much economic sense is that in a lot of beach communities, you get these little old ladies that bought a place back in the 70s or 80s before prices were insane; a little crapshack that’s worth $1.2 million just for land value, but they’re content to rent the little 3/2 for $2,500 to a decent tenant. Even though they’re kinda stupid not to sell the place, believe me, I’ve ran into a lot of people like this, and was a renter in a place just like this in Corona Del Mar (OC) 10 years ago.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-06-09 05:59:02

“Jackson said her foreclosure shouldn’t affect her campaign. ‘There are several people in this economic climate who have gone through that process,’ she said. ‘If no one who went through that process was qualified, then a lot of people couldn’t run.’”

When in San Diego, do as the San Diegans.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-06-09 06:01:09

‘The narrowing has come from sellers being more realistic and buyers being more optimistic,’

Household budget limits have nothing to do with home sale prices; it’s all a matter of attitude.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-06-09 06:03:21

“McFarland, a city of about 12,000 in northern Kern County, won’t issue professional homebuilders a building permit until they’ve landed a committed buyer.”

There is more to this story than meets the eye. If builders who put up spec homes had to eat the losses for what they cannot sell, I can’t see why this kind of law would be necessary.

Do builders somehow get bailouts on spec homes that never sell?

Comment by DennisN
2010-06-09 06:51:25

Well, can they default on their construction loans? Even if it zaps their credit rating, they can always go BK and come back next year under a different corporate name.

Comment by DinOR
2010-06-09 06:57:02

Or their wife’s ( EX-wife’s ) dog’s etc.

If a builder is putting up his ‘own’ money, it should be perfectly allowable he be permitted to commit financial suicide! Wait a minute, a builder… using his ‘own’ money, nevermind.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2010-06-09 08:59:06

There is not much in the way of construction loan money today. Perhaps some, but as a builder you likely need to put 20-40% of your own money into the venture ahead of the bank.

Comment by DinOR
2010-06-09 09:31:40

Rental Watch,

Given the inventory overhang ( ‘any’ construction loan money is too much )

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Comment by Rental Watch
2010-06-09 10:06:40

The problem with the “inventory overhang” is that in many cases, homes are built where people and jobs are not. The overhang is not uniform across all markets.

I never understood the boom in construction in Bakersfield.

However, I continually see the need for more housing in other markets.

 
Comment by DinOR
2010-06-09 10:23:03

Rental Watch,

Fair enough. As BB’s we tend to focus on the excess on the Supply side. B’field was the doing of Crisp & Cole, or so I’m told?

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2010-06-09 13:36:21

I don’t know specifically about the Crisp/Cole situation, but I do know that we looked at a lot of investments in Bakersfield during the madness and couldn’t make any sense of the purported demand.

Within different CA markets, the supply/demand differs greatly, and across the US, state by state, the supply/demand differs greatly.

That said, some states have a chronic housing shortage. CA is one of those states (population per housing unit is second highest in the country, behind only Utah). Within CA, you need to be careful, but if you pick the right markets, beaten up CA real estate should recover more quickly than most other states that don’t have the chronic shortage of housing.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-06-09 06:05:29

“‘San Francisco has conditions of very restricted supply and lots of things that can push demand: an attractive climate, innovative economy and high quality of life,’ said Harvard University economist Edward Glaeser, who has studied U.S. housing bubbles.”

Yeah Ed — it’s different there in San Francisco, since everyone wants to live there and supply is restricted — kind of like on the island of Japan, in fact!

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-06-09 06:07:38

Here is a modest prediction: Once the dust has settled on the housing bust in ten or so years, the present cohort of SF buyers will find their property values went down by larger percentages compared to 2010 home buyers in other parts of the U.S.

Comment by Rental Watch
2010-06-09 09:01:20

Agree.

Other places busted and hit bottom quickly (farther inland in CA for example). These places reached levels where residual land values were negative–if you were given land for free, you couldn’t build a home and sell it for a profit (an unsustainable situation in which no homes would be built with a growing population).

Places like SF are going to be a slow grind downward.

 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2010-06-09 07:05:14

“Hyuck Jae Lee and his wife beat a dozen other suitors last month for a three-bedroom, 1,400-square-foot house in San Francisco’s Inner Richmond. The couple won by offering $875,000, or 14 percent above the asking value, after losing a nearby home that sold at that price. ‘We feel like we’re stepping into our San Francisco life,’ said the Silicon Valley engineer.”
__________________________

What kind of a daily commute is this individual looking at? I recall a drive from Santa Clara to that very neighborhood in San Francisco fifteen years ago on a weekend, and it stunk. Thank God I was on an adrenalin high from having done the pseudo-bungee jump at Great America. I can’t imagine doing that drive five days a week, although I presume his position would allow for some telecommuting.

Back in 2005, a co-worker told me about married acquaintances of his, two doctors, who lived in S.F. and were having trouble finding an affordable house. In the middle of a group of people, I said “when two physicians can’t afford to buy something you know there’s a serious problem.” The response? “Everyone wants to live there snake charmer.”

Comment by DennisN
2010-06-09 10:11:11

I’ve worked with quite a few Chinese-American engineers, and many are under EXTREME pressure from extended families to live in San Francisco. The reason: their relatives don’t want to learn English, and it’s possible to “get by” with Chinese in San Francisco. One friend took a lower-paying job in Belmont rather than face the commute to Santa Clara county. Another friend bought a house in SF to live with her widowed mother (child bride imported from China to marry 50-ish long-dead father), even though said friend has to commute to software jobs in San Jose.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-06-09 10:50:50

Change the language from Chinese to Spanish and you have the same thing happening here with Hispanic extended families in Southern Arizona.

Oh, and this brings up another tale from the Arizona Slim File: I have relatives in Australia. Like my great-grandparents, they were part of the exodus from County Cornwall back in the 1800s.

Well, the Aussies are descended from a Cornish ancestor who, even after she moved to the Land of Oz, refused to learn English. She stuck to speaking Cornish until she died.

My Aussie relatives think that is just hysterical.

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Comment by EggMan
2010-06-09 14:15:57

I used to work in SF, and given the housing prices there I could never figure out the source of the large number of poor people who seem to inhabit the entire city.

Comment by REhobbyist
2010-06-09 19:57:45

I left San Francisco for Orange County twenty years ago. San Francisco has SF General Hospital which provides great medical care for the indigent - Orange County has no county hospital. San Francisco has great soup kitchens and a huge number of volunteers. Social workers in SF will find you a flophouse when you’re released from the mental ward - OC will give you a bus ticket to LA. Homeless people in most places are at risk of being beat up by skinheads. Very few skinhead types in SF - mainly goth or hippie types with bleeding hearts. If I were poor I’d move back there in a heartbeat.

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Comment by StantheMan
2010-06-10 16:39:33

No wonder The OC is on the cutting edge of the decline of western civilization. I would not live there even for free. The quality of life is all about cars and malls.

 
 
 
 
Comment by potential buyer
2010-06-09 10:25:35

Attractive climate? He jests! I always question why my English bosses live in SF — they could just as well be back in the UK, weather is that bad.

Now 50 miles south in San Jose/Silicon Valley, now that’s a whole different ballgame. Beautiful weather.

Comment by DennisN
2010-06-09 10:37:09

Leland Stanford built his “ranch” in Santa Clara county mostly for the improved climate over his mansion in SF. It’s been known for a century that living in SF gets old after awhile.

San Jose was the first civil settlement in California (est. 1775 IIRC). People forget why. The military posts in Monterey and Yerba Buena (old name for SF) were cold, foggy, windy, and sandy, and therefore you couldn’t grow crops there. San Jose was established as the agricultural support area for those two military posts.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-06-09 10:52:29

Didn’t Mark Twain say that the coldest winter he ever spent was a summer in San Francisco?

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Comment by potential buyer
2010-06-09 14:55:55

Yes and very apt too.

I love SF, don’t get me wrong, but weather - nope.

Actually going to Alcatraz and Forbes Restaurant this weekend - the floating restaurant off Pier 39 — should be fun!

 
Comment by REhobbyist
2010-06-09 19:59:43

I gave birth to both of my sons in SF in August - nice and cool. A great place to be pregnant (except that people wouldn’t give up their street car seats for me.)

 
 
 
Comment by DinOR
2010-06-09 11:01:29

potential buyer,

That lept out at me too. Attractive acrhitecture.., attractive women.., sure. Climate..? Must be new to the area.

Ahem, for the record, there’s more to an attractive climate than just -not- having to shovel snow otay!?

Comment by DennisN
2010-06-09 11:56:04

I googled Dan Levy,the author of that Bloomberg article, and he apparently does live in SF. Maybe he doesn’t get out much.

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Comment by DinOR
2010-06-09 13:06:33

DennisN,

I know you’ll well recall the endless… pontification on Patrick’s about ‘this’ particular area being infinitely more desirable ( for having an avg. TEN fewer foggy days ) and not touching ‘that’ area w/ a 10′ rain gauge etc!

To an OR it all looked pretty silly? Not to say there weren’t variances between… various locales but to pay a 20/30/50% premium to get an inch less rain in a given area? The Mrs. ain’t going to be prancing around in her bikini NO how!? Never got that.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-06-09 06:11:44

‘(Banks) are not dumping all these properties on the market at once. If they spoon-feed them out, it just spreads out the pain a little bit longer.’

Are the bankers who own 30,000 falling knives in the East Bay really too dumb to realize that the longer you hold on to a falling knife, the more money you lose?

Bankers should be required to take a basic math exam to qualify for their occupation.

Comment by combotechie
2010-06-09 06:42:50

The longer the banker can Extend & Pretend the longer he can keep his job.

 
Comment by Dale
2010-06-09 08:43:21

Death by a thousand cuts….or 30,000 cuts….or whatever!

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2010-06-09 09:02:45

That is of course, if the knife is still falling in those markets.

 
Comment by Sagesse
2010-06-09 11:32:39

There is an article in today’s Spiegel magazine. It’s about the fact that Deutsche Bank is getting very unpopular in the US, because they are / have been foreclosing faster than other banks.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-06-09 19:27:24

The bank with the first-mover advantage in the foreclosure game will incur the smallest falling knife losses on their REO.

 
 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2010-06-09 06:18:03

The CA Mortgage Melody (Sung by the Mama’s & Papa’s): :-)

Single Transaction
refi /show-me-the-money!
refi /show-me-the-money!
refi /show-me-the-money!
Single Transaction

Chorus:

Foreclosure!
Short Sale!
U-Haul!

Comment by DennisN
2010-06-09 07:10:57

Rollin’ Rollin’ Rollin’
Keep movin’, movin’, movin’,
The loans they’re all approvin’,
Keep them HELOCs movin’ U-Haul!
Don’t try to understand ‘em,
Just sign the note and grab ‘em,
Soon bankers will be living high and wide.
Boy my heart’s calculatin’
My bonus fee will be waitin’, be waiting at the end of my ride.

Move ‘em on, head ‘em up,
Head ‘em up, move ‘em out,
Move ‘em on, head ‘em out U-Haul!
Set ‘em out, ride ‘em in
Ride ‘em in, let ‘em out,
Cut ‘em out, ride ‘em in U-Haul!

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb-thrower
2010-06-09 07:53:00

All the leaves are brown
And the sky is grey
I went for a walk
On a winter’s day
I’d be in foreclosure
If I lived in LA
California dreamin’
On such a winter’s day

 
 
Comment by rms
2010-06-09 06:25:39

The tenor of these newspaper stories has certainly increased this spring suggesting that the second wave of mortgage resets have made landfall.

I was in California two weeks ago for a funeral where I visited with friends I hadn’t seen in twenty years or more. Almost all of them are in dire straits with job losses, falling property values, etc., except for the few lucky ones who inherited enough to get started early in life. I did the right thing moving my family from there while the crisis was fermenting.

Comment by Wickedheart
2010-06-09 08:06:02

It really sucks for young people in Cali. No jobs and many people who have jobs are underemployed. I know so many young people who are barely working and/or actively looking for work and can’t find any.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2010-06-09 15:09:57

It sucks for not so young people as well.

Maybe this crisis will convince enough people that we need to fix problems instead of ignoring them or trying to throw taxpayer money at them.

Comment by Wickedheart
2010-06-10 12:53:57

Yeah, it does. :( It just really bothers me to see young people have to leave the state.

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Comment by Rancher
2010-06-09 06:30:59

Our dentist, who owns a great practice with two other
dentists, whispered very quietly to my wife when
she was in his office, that he won’t be able to retire
like he had planned. He said he’ll probably never
be able to quit. Sad, he’s a great guy with some
medical problems.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2010-06-09 08:28:20

My great uncle was also a dentist.

He was beloved (and quite successful) in the town where he practiced. As he got older, he could no longer handle the chairside part of dentistry. So, he stepped away from the chair and ran the business side of the practice.

On the day he died, he went into the office for the morning appointments. Since it was Saturday, the office was only open for half a day. After he and his partner (the dentist who was handling patients) closed up for the day, Uncle Hutch went home to take a nap before he went out to the golf course. He never woke up.

The memorial service was held in the town’s biggest church, and the place was packed. That meant a lot to my family.

In Hutch’s case, working in that office was a big part of his life. Retirement just wasn’t going to happen.

He also was devoted to his wife, daughter, grandchildren, grand-nieces, and grand-nephews. That side of the family really encouraged me to develop my artistic abilities, and one of them provided the seed money to get me started as a graphic designer.

 
Comment by REhobbyist
2010-06-09 20:04:45

Sounds like he’s a great guy who didn’t save enough for retirement. My dentist just reached 60 and went part-time. He’s having a great time with many hobbies. His office has decor circa 1980, and I could care less, because it’s very clean and the equipment is modern. His house is long ago paid off. His wife, a pharmacist, just retired and has started traveling around the world.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2010-06-09 07:01:25

For the moment, banks are still paying the higher taxes associated with the original values.

I had a question relating to the shadow inventory….

Is a repossession considered a “sale” or “transfer of ownership” with respect to California Prop. 13? In some circumstances banks may want to hold off on foreclosure to minimize the property tax liens.

Consider the following example. House A: bought for $100K in 1980 and HELOC’ed to $700K. House B: bought for $700K in 2006 with 100% financing. Both now worth $400K. Wouldn’t that $400K be the new property tax basis for both?

The bank would incur going foreward 4 times the property tax liens on House A on repossession, but would reduce the property tax liens on House B by almost half on repossession. So it would be in the bank’s interest to foreclose quickly on House B but to delay foreclosing on House A for as long as possible.

Comment by Rental Watch
2010-06-09 09:06:20

I’m just guessing, but hoping that someone can chime in with better knowledge.

When a bank forecloses, they need to bid for that house on the courthouse steps. Often times, they bid the amount of the loan (a credit bid). If there is no one willing to pay more, then they essentially “bought” the house at that price.

If they bid a lot less than the loan amount, and no one bids higher, than they “bought” the house at that lower amount.

I think the “bid” amount at the foreclosure sale would be the new tax basis, but I know know.

Anyone know better out there?

Comment by Young Deezy
2010-06-09 09:22:55

Yes, a foreclousre/bank reposession IS considered a change in ownership per California Law, which would trigger a reassessment at fair market value on the day the property changes hands.

I suspect this may be why so many banks are waiting to foreclose until they’ve found buyers; doing so minimizes tax liability. The less time the bank holds title, the smaller the tax bill. I personally know of 2 families, whose properties were not formally taken back by the bank until a new buyer had been found. One of them got paperwork telling them to get out in x number of weeks, yet they remained on title for over 6 months before the bank took it back. How is this legal?

Comment by Rental Watch
2010-06-09 10:10:14

Short sales are becoming much more common, perhaps for this reason. The other reason is that banks understand that buyers instantly think “20% less than market” when they consider buying REO from a bank. That’s just the reality.

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Comment by Claire
2010-06-09 12:09:59

But if the “homeowner” stops paying his property taxes when he stops paying his mortgage - what happens then? The taxes are attached to the house as a lein right - they still have to be paid - so is the bank on the hook for those payments? If so, it would make sense to push the foreclosure through - as the price is less than the original purchase price (as many of these homes were bought for bubble prices right?) and would lower the banks tax liability?

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Comment by Claire
2010-06-09 12:24:48

And that brings up something else - if the banks won’t foreclose and a house is empty - maybe the way to force the banks to “realize” inventory is to encourage cities to foreclose on these properties themselves to get their unpaid taxes and get the house sold to someone else who will be paying taxes and keeping the cities funded.

 
Comment by pismoclam
2010-06-09 12:38:53

You’ve got Five years to bring the taxes current.

 
Comment by Claire
2010-06-09 13:21:32

I guess that gives us 4 years to encourage the cities to make sure they do go after them (and as efficiently as possible) and scare the banks into sorting out their inventory.

2014 - why does that year keep popping up? Alhtough some of these houses could be 2 years into this proces already???

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2010-06-09 13:39:47

If the stigma of REO drops the price by 20% because of buyer’s perceptions, then the marginal different in taxes paid is not an important decision. The bank is better off to work on a short sale for 6 months and try to get that discount from “normal market” down to 10% from 20%, rather than worry about the extra 0.5% to 1% they may pay in property taxes.

 
Comment by Claire
2010-06-09 13:46:46

I’m just trying to work out if there is a big enough incentive out there to encourage banks to start unloading their inventory and/or speed up and encourage REO sales and short sales.

I was wondering whether the back taxes could be worked into a goad or not to speed things up.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Jimmy Jazz
2010-06-09 08:57:19

‘I decided to sacrifice and refinance my home to keep myself afloat,’

Ah, the modern definition of “sacrifice”: a cash-out re-fi.

Comment by potential buyer
2010-06-09 10:34:17

Yes, many are too dumb to see they have already taken out the value from their homes up front through their equity withdrawal, yet they still want more (and more and more).

 
 
Comment by SOLD IN 05
2010-06-09 10:38:57

the inventory level in the san fern valley is very low,few homes for sale in all n-hoods,other than FBS trying to unload properties at bubble level prices…these homes wont sell and will be part of the SHADOW INVENTORY,which must be huge………….

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2010-06-09 18:49:38

SOLD IN 05
We’re in your neck of the woods, house hunting in the east Ventura County area, and some still 1/2 nice enclaves in the SFV. It sure does feel like a season mini bubble. At least some average one-stories have come down from the $600K’s to the $400K’s, but worth $300K’s at best. Now that the $8K is gone, and the overly pumped $10K is almost gone, maybe us real buyers can get somewhere. That $10K is such a fraud. You and I would get 3 hots and a cot for false advertising on a grand scale. We’re looking for our final home, with no mortgage.
OT kinda, but BofA is rumored to be hiring 1,000 Short Sale folks, on a P/T contractual basis. A way round bennies. As you know, they are broke. :)

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2010-06-09 12:04:50

Speaking of Silicon Valley commercial real estate….

Googling for Dan Levy turned up this article from last week.

More than 43 million square feet (4 million square meters) — the equivalent of 15 Empire State Buildings — stood vacant at the end of the third quarter, the most in almost five years….

About 21 percent of Silicon Valley’s Class A office space is vacant, as is 20 percent of low-rise so-called flex or research and development space for offices or manufacturing, CB Richard Ellis said.

Hokey smoke Bullwinkle!

Comment by DennisN
Comment by EggMan
2010-06-09 14:30:54

Doesn’t really matter. SV has many many light industrial R&D / Office type parks that occupy multiple square blocks and are completely empty. Part of it is due to housing imbalance. All of the regional traffic in the South Bay targets a line between Mountain View and Milpitas, even though that is where a good number of these parks are. Traffic jams going in in the morning, jams going out at night. There is some work being done to build more high-density townhouse type housing right in the area, but it’s not dealt with the imbalance and anyway, anything new is priced crazy, partly because of it’s close-to-jobs location.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2010-06-09 20:17:23

“Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat”

Bullwinkle

Comment by DennisN
2010-06-09 23:29:39

“That trick never works.”

- Rocky

 
 
 
Comment by theyenguy
2010-06-10 07:32:11

The article relates “In Salinas, the Salinas Valley and South County (San Joaquin Valley) combined, 87 percent of the pending sales are distressed — 544 short sales and 176 foreclosures out of 828 pending sales. Another reason there are more short sales than foreclosures is that ‘the banks are holding back inventory’ on homes they’ve foreclosed on, said Janet Reilly, Sotheby’s managing broker.”

My comment is that I believe the high level of distressed sales comes from the scourge of subprime and no-documentation loans.

 
Comment by swguy
2010-06-10 10:16:12

SF ” high quality of life” Let’s see I been there many times
1 Froze my you know what off many a time
2 Fog is no fun driving in
3 Can’t find parking
4 Traffic terrible
5 Houses I saw totally out of line in price
6 Rude people
7 Liberal as a town can get
8 Bums always bother you for a buck
9 Police always cruising to bust ladies of the night which are plentiful
10 Restaurants over priced and cheap on the quantity and quality of food
Other then that a great place to leave not live?

Comment by LAer
2010-06-10 14:03:11

@swguy
SF is a great city, not the best in the world, but some of your complaints are dead wrong. First of all, what’s wrong with a town being liberal? I would rather a town be welcoming and inclusive so that it has character. The other extreme is Dallas, which city would you rather spend a weekend? Traffic in SF is pretty good, easy pub trans options get you where you need to go fast. Finally, food in SF Bay Area, and N. California in general, is the best that can be found in the world. I grew up in N. CA and have lived in many places and can tell you no place compares for fresh, high-quality food. SF has gourmet chefs, fine wines access to closeby farms for fresh meat and produce. The same meal that would cost you $10 in SF would cost you $15 in LA and $20 in NYC and would not be prepared with the same attention to detail and quality as it would in SF.
If you dislike SF so much, please name other major US cities that are better. I also think prices for housing are too high in SF but over the next generation, they will come back down to earth.

Comment by Eddie
2010-06-10 20:05:50

sf restaurants are and have been over rated for years.

being a liberal city isn’t inherently bad. just that lib cities tend to be corrupt, poorly run, infested with crime and sanctuary cities for illegals. SF is a yes on all counts.

Along with the bums, the garbage strewn on the streets makes it a dirty city.

But aside from that it’s a great town…when it’s above 50 degrees and it isn’t foggy/raining.

 
Comment by swguy
2010-06-11 09:55:00

Sir first of all there is no meal in any city in the USA that cost $10.00 anymore especially in SF. The cost of living in the bay area is without question the most ridiculous price in America next to NY and don’t even get me started on NYC.
I’m not saying living anywhere is better then SF what the article said was the “high quailty of life,” I have never seen a quality of life in the bay area in all my visits just a lot of what I posted only my take sir.
Glad you love the place and have a nice life there?

 
 
 
Comment by Eddie
2010-06-10 20:08:28

sf was ranked #79 with regards to emotional health by a study released this year. People there are mean and crazy.

 
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